One Year Anniversary Chaos Episode

It's officially been a year of Unhinged and On Camera! This episode is our love letter to you, the listeners who’ve kept us laughing, ranting, and spiraling for twelve glorious months. We’re diving into the latest Bravo buzz: the whiplash-inducing RHONY reboot rumors, Summer House’s Carl and Lindsay marking the one-year anniversary of their epic breakup, and all the messy magic happening on The Valley and Love Hotel.

Thank you for riding this unhinged wave with us. We see you, we love you, and we can’t wait to get even wilder in Season 2. 

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Chapters

• 4:48 RHONY Rumors
• 16:08 Lindsay Hubbard moving to RHONY?
• 19:55 Lindsay and Turner's relationship
• 25:24 Lindsay and Carl's breakup anniversary
• 37:29 Jesse and Lexi's breakup
• 44:16 Real Housewives of Rhode Island
• 50:28 Wife Swap: Housewives
• 54:03 Shahs of sunset reboot
• 1:00:22 The Valley recap
• 1:04:15 Jesse and Michelle
• 1:08:09 Love Hotel Recap
• 1:19:13 Our one year review

Transcript

hey friends, here we are again for a new episode. this is actually our one year anniversary show. I can't believe we made it to one year. I know. Who would have thought? I know. And we started every week. That was aggressive in the beginning. Well, we were really committed and then we became less committed, but we're still committed. So like, I know we're working through our commitment issues. Yes. Our fans are very committed though. First of all, yeah, the fact that we have more than one fan. The fact that people listen that we don't know. And they comment on our Instagram. We love it. We love when you send us good comments and we also love any productive, constructive feedback. Yeah, some of the, we actually haven't really got too many, although I should look at our reviews because, um, there are some funny reviews we can talk about at the end, but, the only one I really feel like Was the Sutton episode. We got, we were too hard on Sutton for not, not making our own money. And you know what? I, I agreed with that person who kind of gave us some feedback about, I think it was specifically about Talking about how she made her money and that being a result of separation and that that's, you know, just that that's still a really valid way to come towards your, you know. Well, I mean, Okay, a man can't be successful in the world unless he has, you know, someone at home raising his kids and doing his household and planning the parties and doing the social calendar and all of those things that Sutton, I'm sure, did for like – However many years. And like, that's what helped him build whatever wealth he had. So she's like 100% deserving of like entitled to. Yeah. More than half. I'm sure. I'm sure her workload was more than half. But. You know, I think it's more about her insecurity around that, like. Right, and the way that she talks about money and how it becomes a value thing of like holding it over other people like Dorit. Yeah, so anyways, it was very constructive. We enjoyed, we enjoyed the call out, you know. We love being able to think, we love being able to reflect, we love being able to hold a critical eye to everything that we do. That these women do. So since it is our one year anniversary and we do like to do our chaos episodes, and there's a lot going on in the Bravo verse and there's not like one. Show or person I feel like we're that fixated on right now. So we thought we would just jump into some gossip and kind of go through the big. Yeah, let's review some of the big shows that are happening. Let's, maybe we'll touch on some of the things happening on Summer House and the Valley since those are the two big shows that are out right now and. Well, it doesn't feel like we need to do any more, like, solo episodes of Lindsay and Carl, but, you know, we can kind of touch on where they're at now and what's happening in the season, which I think is kind of interesting. I think I had a dream about them last night. Now it's coming back to me. Um, okay, but to jump off, because this is kind of old news now, but like, we'll, we'll go through it anyways. The Real Housewives of New York dead or alive. Ugh. That is the question. I mean, to me, it's been dead since, you know, they nixed the OGs. Like, to me, it's been dead since then. And again, I've always kind of thought of these new origin of women as the real influencers of DJs. New York. Well, I want to read this quote that Bethany Frankel said, who, you know, she has her ups and her downs, this girl. But um, she said, the original was a flawed group of women in a flawed city, authentically being ourselves, unhinged, we loved unhinged, unmatched, shockwaves from Bethany. Yeah, shock waves through the real socialite community in New York and the media. But the new show failed because the powers that be pandered to society and tried to fit twenty-five pounds into a five pound bag. Whatever that means. And if you try to please everyone, you please nobody. I've lots of thoughts about Bethany who I feel like is such a controversial, you know, Bravo figure and was like such a good housewife right like she is gotta be in the top ten of like. Great housewives of all time despite where she's at now. But I really like what she's saying about like this original like all of the women I think in the original were kind of coming from a similar sense Like societal place where it feels like this new group of women they're all one in either different like age brackets like bringing Jenna a fifty something year old woman and with a bunch of thirty something year olds like. It feels a little strange. It's like, are like, what is genuine about these relationships? They're in different stages of life. Aaron is having babies and. Jenna is sending her children to college like those are such different experiences. And I don't know that that doesn't mean they can't be friends but I feel like that's always what felt disconnected to me about it was like, where is the deeper friendship or. Experience here where it felt like in the old like even if they weren't friends they were friends with similar people like they were hanging out in the same circles like You know, like, someone would, some new housewife would come in and be like, oh, I've seen you at parties before. They'd even have been in an earlier episode because they were at the same parties. Like, there was a real connection that brought them all together well, it's tough because I think the age is always a struggle But then again, like you have Tinsley. Tinsley fit in great with the cast and she was much younger than all of them. So, but that's because she knew Sonia before the show. There was like a relationship there that Sonia had with her mom, right? Like it was. And that was what was interesting. They brought her mom in too. And so like, you got the sense of like where this relationship came from that it wasn't just like, we want you on the show. So we're going to. Push you together and, like, force something to happen. It was like, oh, look, look at this relationship between Sonia and her mom and Sonia being in this, like, middle place of, like, both being Tinsley's friend but also feeling like she can be this parental person because there is this, like, Triangulation that's really interesting and we're getting to like watch happen where that's not like it does feel like they kind of like are just like forcing like a group of like what they thought were interesting women together and then. And then it became like, who's got the most interesting trauma to share? Oh god, yeah. And like, it's interesting because I just started watching, um. And I've only watched like half of the first episode of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. The new season. Yeah. And And I was thinking the problem is they're influencing on Real Housewives of New York. And I was like, but then you watch Secret Lives of Mormon Wives where like these women make a lot of money doing TikTok dancing. And whatever else they do, give them all the props they deserve, but they are Messy. And they put it all out like this. And there's a culture there and there's a connection there. Yeah. Like they really have this connection there. And even if they're, I guess they're all around the same age, but like they're all in the same stage of life. They're. There's a purpose to like what brings them together that's not like just try to make an interesting show it's like no they were coming together before that and doing something and. That feels like the fatal flaw here is that they really did just kind of and that's where it feels like I don't know totally get Bethany's twenty pounds and five pound bag. But I think she's right that they did kind of like push. Yeah. A bunch of like diverse, probably individually interesting people together and hope that they would create interesting dynamics, but I think all of these people are too well produced, too. Like aware that they have to create a storyline and too aware that they don't have a genuine connection and so they have to like do things to try to like create some sparks. yeah and not the natural friendship connection that i mean that is kind of the foundation like it always helps like even on summer house i know kyle was the first sort of to be cast and then he brought A lot of the cast along, even if they're not, like, great friends with them, at least there's, like, a natural connection as opposed to, like... Or that they're running in the same circles, right? Like, they know, like, because I think... Kyle was really good friends with Everett, which is how he knew Lindsay, right? Like, so it wasn't but he, like, knew her and there was a connection there and buy-in and something to bring up some stakes of, like, why are we relating to each other besides just to, like, Create some form of like artificial entertainment. But I mean, the way it was covered in the press was like truly like whiplash like, and very bizarre. Um. So my thing is the leaks are coming from potentially three places, right? We've got first. Conspiracy theories going on. Just so you know, these are conspiracy theories. Don't sue me. We're full cragging with our. Yeah, I have no inside information at all. This is just my. Somewhat expertise, but 90% just like throwing shit out there. Um, there's three sources, right? It's either production and production, which is like the production company, any of the producers, anyone who works in the show. 100% unlikely to ever get a leak from them because they have vested interest to, you know, save their company, save their job, save the show. They're not going to leak any, I mean. Within my circle, We sign NDAs. We know our jobs are at risk. I would never like even come on this microphone and say, oh, so-and-so told me this or da-da-da. I'm like, I would be afraid to do that. Well, and it seems like if production's gonna do a leak, they're gonna be more nuanced about it and not be like, it's dead. Like, it seems like they're gonna, like, wanna, like, kind of get some audience feedback around, like, changes, not about whether to, like, keep or stop something. Well, that brings me to my second, which isn't really production, it would be network. And network does leak. Bravo does leak. And they're very strategic about it. Like for example, when, um, when they were going to reboot Roni and they were going to have the reboot and the old, that was a network leak. The network said, let's put this out there in the bravo verse and see what people say. And it's almost like, you know, and now it's, it's become so transparent. Andy leaks on his show sometimes. Um, and those are the most reliable leaks, but at the same time that doesn't mean that's happening. That means they might just be putting feelers out there then the third, which is the most common is like cast members or Bravo, Bravo celebrities or whatever. Um, because they're the most likely. To throw in chaos for whatever reason. The news outlets take them very seriously. Um, and like what was surprising to me is like you have the New York Post. You have New York Magazine, which kind of just jumped off the New York Post, but these are like mainstream, like big media outlets. So I just felt it was strange to say an insider. And then Andy to say, this isn't true. We're still casting. So to me, I, I thought, I think it was cast. So I have two theories not founded in anything. I think it could be Bren. Because she's bitter, she's not getting ass back, which to be honest, I understand because out of all the women, the only woman I care about hearing more story from is actually Brynn because we left her like in a state of. You know, outsider from everyone. Her life is shambles. Right, like, if you're gonna bring it back, we want to see some resolve from, like, the chaos where the last one left off. If we're just kind of, like, cutting off the arm, then, like... For why? Like, I don't care what. What are we supposed to be invested in? Yeah, I mean, Erin had a baby. Congrats. Boring. Is there story there? Um, Psy? I have no idea what I would care about. These are the people, they say it's gonna be Erin, Psy, and Jessel. Like, she went to her second therapy appointment, maybe? And then Jessel had some story, like, I guess I'm interested in her having another kid, but like, not overly so. And then Jenna, like, Do we, I mean, Jenna was a good voice of reason. I could see her in the mix, but like, I don't care what's going on in her life at all. So then like, okay, you might as well totally reboot it. Right, we're just gonna watch them going to like fashion shows like they've been like posting pictures together at like that's. I mean, yeah, like not to go back to Secret Lives of Mormon and Wise, but you pick up with that show and it's utter chaos that they picked up, like they left off and picked back up on. Right, and for how problematic, I haven't watched the new season, but for how, like, problematic everyone thought, like, Whitney was, she's coming back and, like, right, we're gonna see, like, where that goes and how they're able to mend or not mend or repair and, like, That's the interesting stuff I feel like for us as an audience to see how people manage conflict and like, what they continually do in response to conflict where it's like, if there's conflict and we just like cut out the person who. Is part of the conflict and like. Again, what are we watching? What are we invested in? Yeah, it would be almost smarter to keep Bryn and bring on a friend or two of hers to change the dynamic up. Right, so she's not alone, so she has some allies. And it gives more investment for the other women to want to repair with her or to have some sort of like process with her. So, I don't know. I mean, as we're talking now, I'm starting to think Brynn may be more of a likely suspect than I originally thought because my original thought was that it was Lindsay Hubbard. Because I was like. We know she does this, right? Like, this is like not, wouldn't be the first time she did something. Like, I don't know if we know Brynn to be that person. I mean, I think probably they're all capable of it. And she's just like too new to the Bravo world to like. Like, have been caught if she was. Well, I mean, if there is any of the Roni. Where there's a historic history of Lindsay doing this sort of stuff. Yeah, any of the roni women can be like, I haven't heard from production. We're not starting shooting. What's going on? And just wanted to leak to, like, get some answers. Mm-hmm. So it could be in any of those women. but yeah, Lindsay Hubbard is a PR queen, so. And also everyone online keeps saying What's, what's gonna happen with Lindsay? What's gonna happen with Lindsay? And Summer House is about to start shooting. So maybe she feels under the gun to be like, what are we doing with me? I need a job. I don't know. I got a baby. She's been very out. She's been very outspoken that she doesn't want to quit reality TV. She doesn't want to quit, Summer House. Mm-hmm. Um, we don't know the status of her and Turner's relationship. Obviously, he would not want to be involved, so. Mm-hmm. And she's been posting that she's doing this big move and it's like, is she moving in with Turner? Because I imagine that would create a bigger conflict because then they can't like. Film in their apartment if like that could create some sort of like issue. Yeah, so let's jump into Summer house. I texted you. There's a bomb at the end of the next on, but I was like, but you won't be surprised. Lindsay says, we probably wouldn't have stayed together if we didn't have a baby. Um, To no one's surprise. Is anyone surprised by that? If you are, message us because I'm curious if anyone's surprised by that. Well, I want to hear the whole context of what she says. Um, they're definitely still like, you know, going out to dinner together, being seen together, whatever. But she does keep calling Turner the father of my child. Right. And not her boyfriend. Or my partner or my, right, like, it's very specific language that feels like disconnecting from her. Yeah, and obviously there's been rumors, but then she was on Watch What Happens Live and Andy was like, he's here with us. Do you think they're moving in together? She's moving apparently. I don't know. I, I guess my assumption was she like bought an apartment because like for how much she's spending in rent, she should just be buying something. Um. That's a good theory. I don't know and I feel like we're not gonna know and I think this is gonna be the key problem with Lindsay if like half of a very important half of her life we're not able to see like part of. What has been most interesting about Lindsay is watching her relationships unfold. And like, yeah, it's really nice this summer to see this like. Calmer Lindsay for the most part and I you know I do want to talk about her and Carl like what's happening there but like overall we're getting this more like calmer open like funner Lindsay but part of it is because she gets to like. Protect and hide the part of her life which in the past has always been the part that like is the source of like major conflict for her. well, and I give her a lot of credit because she doesn't seem like she wants to hide it. It seems like it's just a circumstance of her relationship because she said like, oh, you know, he's in, Finance, medical finance, I don't know what his job is, but that he can't, you know, risk his job. I think this was a quote, like, I can't have my father of my child. Lose his job. Again, like, why is the father of my child? Also, like, why is his value only rooted in, like, how much money he can bring in? Like, that says a lot about Lindsay and her relationship to men. You're like, I need that child support. Um, it almost came off like that. Like, more than I care about anything else about him, I need him to keep his job. And it does feel like that's the narrative of like, he's so successful. Like, this is what's so great about him. Like, we don't hear anything else that's great about him. But then, like, okay, let's go back. Like, that's what she wanted from Carl. She obviously found that from him. And didn't I tell you if, if she'd had that, she wouldn't want to stop working, right? She wouldn't want to stop doing what she's doing. Of course not. So, like, to me, I'm like, okay, you have this guy who's obviously making enough money. Well, they're not married, so she's got no, she's smart not to stop working because at this point she's got no protection. Like, this guy could just leave and he, you know, how much he would pay in child support, like... Like that would be the best she's going to get from him because she's not going to get alimony. She's not going to get any kind of settlement. Like she's got no financial protection in just like. Having a baby with somebody. Yeah, I mean. He could decide to not even pay child support, right? He could be like, I don't want anything to do with this. I want to, like, cancel my parental rights. Like, and I don't know all about child support. That sounds right. I don't think so, but I'm just saying that, like, technically she's got zero financial protection, so she's not gonna quit, but like... Also, it does seem, like, based on, like, the rumors we hear of, like, a little bit of whiplash of, like, whether they're together, whether they're not together, whether there's problems, whether there's not speaks to, like, there's not a stability there that it seems like they're running to City Hall to get married. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, I don't fault her, I mean, at all. I'm just saying, like, I feel like she's a bit inconsistent of, like, what she wants. But, like, I do, I really do praise her for, A, not starting a podcast. Yeah. Yes. No more Bravo podcasts. Yes. Still really wanting to be on reality TV because she's a very good reality star. She knows what she's good at. Um, she's a bit of a Bethany Frankel in that way too, where like, I think Bethany knows she's really good at reality TV. And that's why she like spirals out now in TikTok. Um, so. apparently there's gonna be a big announcement at the reunion. We've been speculating on it. I still have no clue. my running theory is that Paige is leaving Summer House. Yeah, I think there's a few. There's either Lindsay announcing she is going to move to Roni or there's going to be some new show for her in the works, right? Like something like that. The other is Paige leaving. Do you think it's her leaving Bravo altogether or just leaving Summer House? So I don't know. Paige was saying in an after show or podcast or somewhere that Jessie was texting her about next summer and how much fun it's going to be and da da da da da, which made me think she's definitely back. She's going to be single. And I saw something recently, too, where she was talking about being a reality star and it seemed like she still is committed to that. But she gives me, like, Ariana vibes. Like, She doesn't need it anymore. She's got enough success outside of it that, like, technically, unlike Lindsay, like, I don't think Lindsay has enough going on outside of being on Summer House to, like, really Thrive outside of it. I mean, I think she'd be fine, but like. Yeah, I don't think she's got the same amount going on as someone like Paige who's got her really successful podcast, her tours, you know, they were just on like a bunch of like high profile shows that like don't have don't generally have like Bravo liberties on. Yeah, and they just launched a YouTube show about like Hannah and Paige just doing funny shit while they were on tour. Oh my god, they did? Yeah, so like Hannah and Paige try new things. Yeah. And I've seen clips and it's really funny. I'm like maybe they, but it's tough for me to think that they're gonna launch like a new show off this reunion. I think if they were going to do that, they would have done that with the upfronts, which is really where they announced all their new shows. Well, not if it didn't like. If the timing didn't work out right because they wouldn't want to like spoil the big announcement from the show by bringing it to I don't know how upfronts works you would know that better than me like well. Bigger, what bigger importance to them like the upfront thing or like what could happen like what could be released at a reunion that gets people to watch it. I would say in general and in the past upfronts do because upfronts is when they say Hey, to the advertisers like, hey, this is what we're gonna launch, you know, make your ad buys. So they wouldn't want to like hold things back from the advertisers like if there's something to be excited about. BravoCon is like the other place they like to announce things. Just seems weird because the timing is so close. Like if it was like, okay, the summer house reunion is closer to BravoCon, then I'd be like, oh, maybe. But, like, because it's only a couple weeks after the upfronts, it's, like, when they have just announced this as part of, like, the upfronts. Right. Um. Yeah. Maybe Lindsay's gonna say her and Turner are broken up. No, I don't think so. It doesn't feel like maybe she's gonna say they're getting married and they were doing a married special. That's he doesn't even want the baby to be on TV. I don't they're gonna do a married special but he's gonna have like an emoji on his face the whole time. Well, they did say Gemma, Gemma makes an appearance at the reunion. I've heard that. Is she going to have an emoji on her face the whole time? I mean, I don't know. I think Lindsay's really struggling with the fact that Turner won't, doesn't want their baby to be like public. Yeah, I mean, that's gotta be hard, right? Like, if that's because she has such a public life and, like, when you become a mom, that becomes such a big part of your, like, identity and to feel like I can't show that part of me, like, yeah. And there's a financial aspect to it too, right? So what did you think of, I guess we've seen all of Carl and Lindsay this season, or maybe we'll see a little more in the finale. I don't know. It was weird the tease of her being like, I don't feel that like my time is over yet. And Danielle's like, this is pretty over. You're like seven months pregnant. You're moving to a very different stage of life, baby. Like, come on. In her Handmaid's Tale outfit. That was actually really amazing. The timeline Instagram. I kind of loved it. I mean, it's so Lindsay, right? Like, it's so Lindsay. And it's what makes her a great reality star. And I... Really wish that at that dinner Carl had not said anything and just like let it go. Oh, really? But I. Yeah, because I feel like he was kind of holding the upper hand and in my experience of what's happening this season, he's kind of been holding the upper hand where Lindsay's just been like making jabs at him. And for me as an audience, it's like, like, what are you doing? Like, you're pregnant with some other guy's baby and yet you're still making jabs at your ex. Like, it does feel like we'll move on. Where then him coming into this dinner, it felt like he and you know, as a human being someone's making a bunch of jabs at you eventually like you're going to respond to a jab and I think that's sort of what happened was he was like this is like the final straw where it's like. Oh my god, she just keeps trying to make me look like a really bad person and that doesn't feel authentic to like what happened and he couldn't like not say something but I wish he would have like said less or just like. Done it in a different way because then it kind of felt like okay like you're losing your upper hand here Carl like the way you're responding to this now feels. Catty and feels like there's a lot of stuff for you to work on which is like probably all true and like feels valid again this is like a year later it's not that long for like that time because Lindsay has gone through so much more than Carl in that year of like Dating someone new, getting pregnant, like ten different photo shoots, whatever. There are ten photo shoots, she had to list every single one. I mean- All the weddings she's gone to, like. Well, and I wish, you know- And maybe she did and it got cut out, so I don't want to say that like she didn't, but there's something about saying like as a woman, you know, don't define yourself by like marriage and kids and like, you know, those things will come, um, you know, if you get dumped, it's like It could be a blessing in disguise. Like, I didn't feel like she packaged it that way. I think Carl was saying. That would have been a great way to package it. Yeah. Totally. That would have been a way more effective way to package it. It's not about Carl's a bad guy or Carl did something wrong. It's about, like, me empowering myself after experiencing this thing. And, like, that's a beautiful story. And I think that is a beautiful story, but that narrative keeps getting lost because she keeps saying, you dump me, dump me, which I want to get into that. But I will say, Carl kind of hit something on the head of like, she has not... You know, the prior episode, he said she was embarrassed. I think she is because she keeps saying how humiliating it was. And then he says there's something deeper that she hasn't processed. And that's like really what's going on. And I think that is very true because the way the narrative that she keeps selling or she's been selling this whole time is Carl showed up at the house and dumped me. And I'm sorry, I watched that scene. That is not what happened. Also, we watched the whole season. It wasn't like he just came up and dumped you. Like, you had a whole summer of conflict and putting him down and And him being reactive like there was a lot going on between the two of you that like, it's like, it's like Craig saying he's being blindsided like you were clearly blinding yourself to something. And at least Craig is, like, starting to acknowledge that, obviously, but, like, whatever. Um, but with, with Carl, like, I, I truly I mean, listen, yeah, he called the camera crew Leaving their relationship on that insane hug in the kitchen At Summer House would have like been so bizarre. Like, I'm sorry. That would have been so bizarre. That would have been so weird. So like, to me, I'm like. The crew was already trying to figure out what's going on. They get in this huge fight, get into their apartment and don't speak to each other for two days. And then she, you know, he wanted to talk with you on camera. Like, You, you had to know that this was about your relationship. And to me, Carl never said like, I'm dumping you, this is over. He said like, there are some serious issues in this relationship and I don't think I'm going to be ready in two months to marry you. And then you took that as a breakup and stormed off. And like, that's what I witnessed. And then you've been selling this narrative from that moment on that he dumped you. And he gave you plenty of opportunity to sit there and talk it out with him or try to make this work. Um, I didn't feel that he came in with like, we're done. Like, that's it. Yeah. Or with the intent to embarrass her like I think that is because even if she is holding being embarrassed there's some part of that that she's saying he did this to me he wanted me to be embarrassed he wanted people like He wanted to create a narrative where like I'm this like right like whatever it is for her around like what she's holding about what it means to like kind of feel embarrassed about the way that went down and that that was his intention. And her feeling that feels valid right like that place in which like, this was really embarrassing for me like I can empathize with that if she would say that like. You know, the way he did this really embarrassed me and it hurt me and it was really painful to, like, feel like this is what happened. But that's, like, again, it's not the, she does a PR swing that then, like. Puts her into a bigger victim role so she can avoid that vulnerability of like, that she was actually really embarrassed and hurt and wounded and instead like goes into attack mode goes into activated Lindsay. But even deeper than that, which is what I think maybe Carl's hinting at is like, okay, yeah, embarrassed, but she doesn't process like her role in it at all. No, she never has. Because if she does, then she doesn't get to be the victim, right? Like, if she has a role, then she wasn't completely victimized, right? If she has a role, then she wasn't blindsided. If she has a role, then, like, right, like, for her to do that and open that door takes away the narrative that she's been, like, holding on to so tightly that allows her to feel, like, Whenever someone hurts me, I, it's not because I did anything. It's because people want to hurt me. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's just that she picks the wrong guys, but either way, like, I think she just wants to. You know, make it seem like she was dumped. I mean, somebody said something to me, friend of mine is with a sober partner. And their partner was saying, you know, Carl's really doing the work of being emotionally sober, which is like way harder than actually just being sober. And I thought that that was like so apt of what we're seeing this year from Carl. And I know like Lindsay made that jab at the beach. Like, I don't think he really hooked up with anyone. I think it is really hard for Carl to be sober and have Romantic relationships and sexual relationships and he thinks that's like really interesting it's kind of sad that the audience kind of like sees it and they're like getting the ick and it shows like this like thing in women that can be really rejecting of men when they really show up in like emotionally vulnerable ways like even. Him like trying to flirt and it looking like not cool and not like suave and everyone's like, ew. And it's like, no, this is him not putting on an act. This is him trying to figure out what like authentically feels good and And trying to act on it and that's not natural for him because he spent years and years and years winning women over through like this asshole fuck boy like and being on a substance. And even him going to Sierra and being like, I have feelings for you. I thought it was good. He didn't need to do that. Beautiful conversation. I thought. I thought it was beautiful. I thought she handled it beautifully. I thought he, like, you miss a hundred shots that you don't take. Like, put it out there. He didn't, like, do it in, like, an icky way. And I don't know. I thought it was beautiful. Maybe you want to cry a little bit. I know. Well, when you compare it with Jesse and how he kind of flirts with her and fucks with her and it's so... Jesse's just... Cringe this whole season. But that was Carl, right? Like, I do feel like that was Carl at the beginning. That was Carl. You're literally seeing. Totally. And the fact that he has this friendship with Sierra and it's budding and You know, they're getting close again. And the fact that he felt like also if I'm going to be friends with this person and I want to be close with them, I have to be honest that there are a little bit more feelings as opposed to doing this fuck boy thing where you kind of flirt with her but you kind of don't. Right. He's just like, I'm gonna put it out there and she can take it or not take it and we can walk on by so that she knows like, the feelings are there. I'm not gonna pursue it if she doesn't want me to. Um, but I'm not gonna do this like. Well, I can't do it because me and Lindsay are in a good place and I like that like as part a big part of this and him just being like I totally get that like that shows a sense of emotional maturity of like. I can see things outside of just my own needs and my own perspective and like what I want. Yeah, I mean, I thought Sierra handled it because we were both predicting Sierra would be like, uh, no, Carl. But actually she gave like a good reason. Um, and I don't know if she was really emotionally attuned and was like, I get that they have like a real friendship in the way that she responded to that. Like she was like, I respect you. And like, because of everything that's gone down, like, that's not an option. Yeah, maybe Carl should date Maya. Remember they had like a close friendship? Yeah, I feel like Carl's a really good friend. Like, even just thinking about, like, the origins of his and Lindsay's relationship was in, like, them being best friends. I think he's, like, a really good friend. Yeah, I mean, I don't see him getting in a serious relationship. I think he needs to take his time. But yeah, there is something about the Bravo verse that are really coming for Carl. I don't know, Carl seemed really involved this season. Yeah, and I think he's, I think he's doing the best he can. Do I think he's, like, not carrying any trauma from him and Lindsay? And, like, again, she is doing, like, he's not poking at her at all, and she is poking at him. Well, I think there's a part of her, too, that knows that Carl's story is more interesting to keep following in Summer House. Because we can. Because we're allowed to. And she's losing control. Um, and again, going back to the Roni leak, I mean, maybe she's the Roni leaguer. I'm sort of on that more than Brynn because I don't know that I totally get, like, what Brynn would benefit even if she's bitter about it, how she would benefit from leaking that. Like, it feels like that would only create more problems with her if she ever wanted to be on reality TV again because then it's like, oh, we can't trust you. Yeah, I guess, um, I sent you this today, but on Instagram, Amanda Batula, posted a photo of Lindsay, like filming in this park with some other girl with a baby. Mm-hmm. It could have been an ad. No, the girl had a toddler and it was, I think it was Gemma, I think it was Lindsay and her baby, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they were saying like, is this, this may be a signal of like, what's happening next? Yeah, which new show or potentially new format or something. Yeah, which I want to talk about the new shows. But before that, what is your I mean, do you have anything to say about Lexi and Jesse or? I guess I'm, I'm glad that Lexi stood up for herself and took her advice and said, I really loved what she said on the balcony. She said, when you told me that you were going to get a manicure, Whether you were getting it or not, I didn't believe you and that distrust, I need to listen to that. That's not good that I distrust you that much, that I can't believe what you're telling me. And I like that she put it on her. Like, she wasn't like, you're definitely lying, and so I can't trust you, so you're bad. She's like, given everything that's happened, I can't trust what's happening. I did really love that, too, that she- Really kind of did the framework within herself. I'm sure there's a lot more projection on him she's holding than like, just in that conversation, but there's something in there that's like, oh, she's. Reflecting on like what's happening for her and this and not just putting all the blame on him and I thought I did like that a lot. Yeah, and like Jesse, you could tell in that moment too, his face just kind of drops because he knows, he knows his role in it and he knows like it's done. Um, it was sad, but then they both started Passing back this gaslighting project. And I was like, oh my god. And really they're like gaslighting each other, right? Like, yeah. Because whatever story Jesse was giving to the whole, all the people about Sierra was true, but was not the reason for the, the total reason for the breakup. And like, it just, yeah. I mean, the spin on both of them, but like definitely on Jesse's part, like I was like, I get where Lexi was coming from. Like you've all you've done is talk shit about Sierra and now all of a sudden you're good. Like that's confusing. Yeah. But I don't think she has any issue with Sierra at all, to be honest. Well, I also think she wanted to put it on him that she had strained relationships with all the women. And like, while I think he had a role in it, I think she also had a role in like what, right? I think this often happens if you come into the house and the first person you're aligning yourself is with one of the males, then that is going to impact your ability to connect with the women right like because you end up getting consumed into that and not putting your. Attention or your efforts into building relationships with the other women. Well, I don't even think that's true, though. Like, I think she is pretty good with all the women. Like, they seem to be really like, she seems, I mean, even Lindsay, who's always mean to the new people. I mean, I feel like she's As good as she could be as someone new coming into a house filled with like women who have connected over many years. But at the same time, if Lexi hadn't come in and had that relationship with Jesse, there would be no season. Well, then maybe she would have had a relationship with the West and that could have been even crazier. But if she had just came in and focused just and like, and I get like the girl empowerment of Summer House this season has been great. I mean, Amanda's glow up has been amazing. Like I am all about the women relationships, but. If it became part of what Summer House is, is the tension that happens when they're living together and there is some like sexual tension happening. Yeah. Which says a lot about what that show is and, like, where they maybe need to move around it. Yeah, and, like. Nix all these, like, people who aren't going to be willing to date and just bring in. It is kind of a problem. Like, I think Paige might be, but it's really going to come down to whether she wants to or not. I don't think she's going to want to date on TV very quickly. Well, and Sierra's not, so. Right, it's like, how interesting is that gonna be? But maybe she'll be, she does seem like she's evolving a little bit more and becoming more comfortable on camera, I don't know, but. Mm-hmm. Emeril is just getting cut out of the show. Yeah. Why? Why are we hating on him and all of his, like, sexcapades? Yeah, like, so there was a shot. Let a man live. He ain't hurting nobody. It seems like it's all consensual, at least unless, you know, there's something we're missing. Well, apparently he was at that dinner with Wes and Sierra where Wes talks about his, he tries to have his like one moment of story this season where he talks about a friend who died. And then it really becomes Sierra who walked away in that moment, which was really sad, actually. Yeah, that was really sad. And then they cut Emeril out of the scene. Which totally makes sense, but I guess if he wasn't giving anything, he wasn't giving anything. I mean, it could have been a money issue because they didn't want to have to pay him for the episode. Give him a little, he's got to make the least amount of money of everyone. But also they're like, they have to introduce him. They have to show him walking in. Sometimes the episode's long and then you're like, well, if this person just disappears, solves many problems. We don't have to pay him. We don't have to like show him, you know, um. But yeah, he really got the, the guys on the show always come in and come out. Only Wes and Jesse have made a, you know, for us. And like, I'm sorry, but Wes has been way too scared this season to have a storyline. Like, it's like you can feel his fear of audience. And I don't think that's gonna like be sustainable. No, I feel like when I see him, have you ever seen those videos where they do the breakdowns of the other Housewives shows with West and some other guy? Yeah. I love those. Those are so funny. I feel like you get West's personality there. He's really funny. Like, you, he's, he's not even let us see the funny right like we're not able to see it's almost like he's like totally inverted in himself and I don't think that's going to be sustainable. And then it's so funny that Jesse's like saying, oh, he just got with Sierra to get famous. Well, his relationship with Sierra killed his second season. So how does that make sense? Also, like, I don't think anyone gets with Sierra to get famous. Like, look at her. I don't think like she... You know, they keep making Sierra like this pity case. She's like a supermodel. I would give anything to look like Sierra. I give my soul to the devil. I would like to look 10% of Sierra, basically. Um, her pinky toe at this point, I would take. Right, I will, yeah. But there is a lot of rumors about Summer House and is it going to evolve? Is it going to be a summer in the city? There has been rumors that there would be a Loverboy show and Kyle has said that they've pursued that. So is like Kyle going to be the Lisa Vanderpump? I would believe that would be yes. speaking of new shows, The Upfronts, which is like kind of an industry thing that has now, I mean, because it's Bravo, you know, people follow it. Um, they announced a lot of new shows. maybe we should start with Real Housewives of Rhode Island because I need to eat my words because I was like, there's no fucking way this show's real and it is. Tell me your thoughts about it. I, like, know nothing about Rhode Island except for the, like, three times I've been there with you. Because we went to Newport Folk Festival. so yeah, I grew up in Rhode Island till I was like eight and my parents got divorced and my dad still lives there now. Like my entire family kind of lives there. I kind of hate going there. I mean, you know. Seems like it's pretty in the summer. Rhode Island Pride. I don't know. I mean, and also where they live in Cranston is sort of not that far from where, like, my family lives. Like, it's not like a... Maybe they have really big houses. I guess what they're saying is that they are influencers, but they all know each other and they, there's some like Italian family So it could be closer to mom talk. Uh, like, um, New Jersey had sex with mom talk. Okay. Interesting. I mean, Rhode Island is kind of like, you know, whenever my dad gives me like directions to go anywhere, if I, you know, was to go somewhere, he'd be like, So you drive down this street and then you pass that pizza place that burned down in 1995 and then you go here. I'm like, how am I going to know that a pizza place was here in 1995? Like, what? Like, is it still burnt embers? What? What's happening? Um, I mean, I guess maybe there's some modern things happening there. I don't know. I mean, I guess the governor or something of Rhode Island tweeted about it too. I mean, they're probably just like gangbusters. I mean, this has got to be the most interesting thing hitting Rhode Island. Like, they're about to get some tourism boost for this. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely more of a culture than, like, I would say Potomac, which has always just been weird. I'd never even heard of Potomac before. And it seems like all the women live spread out and they don't really have a community that they um, whereas in Rhode Island it's a very small town vibe. I used to have a very thick Rhode Island accent when I was a kid until kids pulled it out of me. Water. When I moved to Florida, all the kids made me say water like a thousand times till I started saying water. Um, but it's like Boston, New York, and New Jersey had a very chaotic child. So it's got that Italian mob vibe still, but I can't imagine like a Gen Z The crowd still has that? I don't know. Yeah. I'm realizing it makes more sense. Is there a Teresa Giudice there? Like... I will say this, them green lighting Rhode Island makes me think you're not going to see Jersey for a really long time. Like, maybe don't expect Jersey to come back. Ever? I don't know. If it does, it's going to be like Miami, like years. Because to me, if they have a show that's so similar, what's the point? Right. And I think they have in their head that this is. Or maybe they want to see how this goes and then they're going to decide if they want to bring back Jersey. But from what I've, what I've heard, it seems like they're filming full on. They have a whole season. Right, but they want to see, like, sort of how people respond to this season. Like, it might be a year before they make a decision about Jersey, depending how, like, People receive this. Yeah, and I'm so behind on Atlanta Housewives because Portia just turned me off. I like Shamia. I'm glad they finally gave her a peach. And that's why I kind of want to just sit and like binge the whole thing and like take it all in. Yeah. But Portia was upsetting me. But I think it got a little too dark with like everything that happened with Kenya and I don't know. Anyways, the other upfront. So we have the Ladies of London. Yeah. yes which i mean i've been begging for for years but juliet from ladies of london is on the real housewives of london yeah but i guess i'm wondering how they're gonna make Really? Why? I don't know. I, I was, I was thinking it's only on international or something. Oh, is that a thing? Well, they have that like Australian one and they have that other one that you can't really watch. Oh. Well, that's disappointing because I really like Juliet. I know. I don't know. I mean, then again, like, they could just buy the, like, domestic rights. It's, like, not that hard. Well, I just hope the new ladies of London has a similar, like, expat cast with one, like... English person who constantly puts them in their place like Carolyn Stanbury. That's like all I can wish for it. Yeah, I kind of agree. I think what worked with the first one is having the half, half American half, and I don't know if they'll still go that way, but I hope they do because that was what really worked on the first one. Right, it was an interesting like tension and dynamic to watch play out. And, like, how, like, culturally they were, like, there is a difference there even in, like, you know, they talk a lot about, like, with Lisa Vanderpump the, like, British humor and how Americans don't always seem to, like, get that. And then we have wife swap Real Housewives. so I have a lot of friends who originally worked on Wife Swap and I got a lot of DMs that were like, this is not how I imagined Wife Swap coming back. So like, is it really gonna be like... Who did they say were the wife swaps? Okay, who I have rumored is Emily Simpson, Melissa Gorga, Wendy. So is Emily really gonna go live with, like, Joe Gorga? Like, is that what's gonna happen? Actually, that could be amazing to watch. Now that you said that out loud, I'm seeing it and I'm getting it. Um. Like, okay, I do want to see Emily go live with Joe Gorga. She does like a short man and seems to like be able to contain their energy. Or what about Wendy going to live with Joe Gorga? Anyone going to live with Joe Gorga is actually kind of fascinating. She could educate him, which it seems like he could really use. And then Angie from Salt Lake City is also rumored. Wait, who was the third person? Wendy, Melissa, Angie. And Angie. Greek, Greek Angie. Greek Angie excites me the least, to be honest. Yeah, her husband doesn't have, the thing is her husband doesn't have a lot of personality. Yeah, it kind of goes back to the husband. He's had a lot of storyline but not a lot of personality. Oh my god, Shane with any of these women? With any of them. Bring them all to Shane. It should just be like Shane's wife swap. Like which wife. And Emily goes between all the other husbands. Yeah. I mean, I do feel like Joe Gorgon needs an Emily right now because I feel like there are, there's got to be some lawsuits brewing for that man and like a lawyer could be something good for him to have a good connection. Yeah, and it kind of spot, you're right, it spotlights the husband almost more than the wife in some ways. It's gotta be both, right? Like, you, like, What feels like could be interesting is putting these, like, husbands with, like, certain personalities with wives of certain personalities because we're used to seeing Joe Gorga with Melissa who, like, They play off of each other in such like a PR way and so to bring in someone who's not going to do that with him like feels interesting. but some of the characters that I would love to see, I mean, I always want to see Dorinda back on my TV, like she doesn't have a husband to wife swap with. I know. I've heard her rumored to be on Traders again, which I... Support because she needs like justice. She needs a second chance. Yeah. Okay. So I'm, I'm into that show. It's going to be weird. Like love hotel, which we'll talk about, but, um, it could be interesting. Um, and then. Shaws of Sunset, we finally got reboot. This is the one I'm most excited about, but maybe because Shaws of Sunset was my, like, intro into Bravo Worlds. So they're calling it the Valley Persian style, but it's had a little WT next to it, which means working title. Um, which I just want to throw out. Give them some, yeah, give them some ideas. Like, at least, okay, I understand doing it under the banner of the valley because that can help drive, like, a franchise sort of. Mm-hmm. Although I think they should probably just go back to Shots of Sunset. Um, but also at least call it the valley. None of them live on Sunset anymore. They all live in the valley now. I mean, Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, none of those women, they all live in the valley. They should be calling it Real Housewives of the Valley. Why does every, why does everyone, every Bravo Leopardy live in the valley? Because that's where you buy homes. Yeah. Like there's limited homes in Beverly Hills. but at least if they're going to call it the Valley, it should be called the Valley Persian version. That's at least has a better ring. Hire me, Bravo. Like, what are you thinking? Persian style? Right. Persian version. I feel like they gotta bring Shaws. I feel like they should use the word Shaws in it just to, like, connect it to that show, but I don't know how those contracts work and when you have a name. That's true. Again, a lot of these things go back to, like, a weird money thing that, like, you know, lawyers deal with. Legal money, yeah. Yeah. I wonder if they have to cut it off completely from that name, anything to do with that name. For anyone who, wants to work in the entertainment industry who happens to listen to this podcast, first I would say don't. And then second, I would say, if you want to hear first. Yeah, don't. And then the second thing I would say is become a lawyer because. Anyone I've met who's like in a prominent or good position in this industry is also a lawyer and I very much regret not going to law school. And at this point education is like not worth it so just don't. Just go chat, chat GDP, your law degree. But, I mean, they need more people on that show. It's supposed to be Gigi, Reza, and Mercedes. MJ, yeah. I imagine they're going to bring in other people. And if you move to the Valley, then maybe you could get in on it. I have spoken to my husband about this. First of all, he was mad that the show's coming back. Secondly, he said I would never be on that show. So, and we also don't live in the valley. Not that it matters. Right. Do you even need to if, like, they didn't need to live on Sunset before, like. But they definitely need, the thing, too, about, like, Shaw's is, like. It was kind of about Persians that came over after like the revolution which now there's maybe less of those people. Because they'd be older? Well, I mean, I feel like they have to bring in people who are connected to that group of three people. Yeah. Because I think they'll do themselves a big injustice to just bring on randos and I feel like those people know a lot of people and so they have people they can bring on. Well, apparently there's a huge mess with Gigi and Mike's ex, Paulina, stole her new husband. Like, Gigi got married to a guy for like three days. And then Paulina stole the guy. Has Gigi just multiple times been married for a couple days? Like, is this her thing? That's her thing. All of our marriages are a max. I need to understand that. I want to, we need to put like Gigi on one of these like therapy shows because I feel like there's something like deeply going on there that I want to, I do kind of want to understand more. Her and Jax Taylor. Oh my god. I'm surprised they've not done it. I feel like that would escalate like, like if they were on therapy together or if they were like, now I'm thinking about them like together in a relationship and like the domestic violence that would come out of Like, that would be scary. Oh, God. Well, jumping into Gigi's knives. Oh, my God. Jumping into the valley. Yeah, I still have nothing to say about Jax and Brittany other than, like, I am deeply, deeply saddened for Brittany. Yeah. Well, I'm curious what you think about, like, what happened in this recent episode with, like, Nia and this projection that it does feel like Brittany is doing on to Nia and like, do I think likely Nia and Danny are kind of wanting to show their relationship in the best light possible? Like, yeah, so I imagine anyone who goes on reality TV as a couple wants to, like, show the most perfect version of their relationship. As did Brittany for many years with Jax try to like project that relationship as perfect, which like that motivations feels really real and valid. And now that that's all crumbling, her demand of, like, people to be authentic feels, like, I don't, I'm curious what you think about that. Well, you've said a couple times that you think Dani and Nia are, like, toxic positivity. Well, you know, they're like... They feel like they should be a little bit on, like, Mormon, like, they feel like those, like, Christian people who, like, are very, like, rooted in their religion and that gives them this, like, ultra positive outlook on the world that feels very, like, naive and. To me toxic but I think they're cute. I mean she she was Miss America you know, she's what Raquel wanted to be but like never could be. Yeah, I don't know. I love Nia and Danny in like an unhealthy way and I don't know why because they're not even like. Well, you do love a short man, so. Yeah, and there's something about him that I just, I know that guy. Like, he's, he thought he'd be able to. Doesn't he kind of remind you of that guy you dated in, like, boat guy? Oh my god, boat guy. Was his name Danny? Was his name Dan? His name was Dan and he does remind me of boat guy. I mean, I don't remember his personality at all, but like, I feel like they kind of like look similar. Oh, my God. Yeah. You know, and I was thinking about Boat Guy the other day because I was like, you know, thinking about people I dated and like their families and he was like, he had the best family. I think I was more into Boat Guy's family and his boat than his actual personality. But anyways, yeah, he does. He is giving me boat guy vibes. Um, and also he just like seems like that guy who's like really came to Hollywood believe like I'm gonna be an actor and like works really hard and like he seems like The kind of guy who could, could have broken into, like broken in as an actor and maybe he's just like too nice or something. Or too short. I don't know. It's hard to find a. But a lot of these actors are really short when you meet them in real life. True. You'll be shocked. I mean, I saw Timothee Chalamet at like a screening and he was the smallest person ever. I've ever seen like on every level. Like he probably weighs like 100 pounds. That seems right. anyway, side note on that. Um, but, and then Nia's like a pageant queen. Like, I don't know. Like, the way she came in and like confronted Britney, I actually gave her some, I felt like that, you know, and she was being authentic. She was like, you're my friend. Why are you attacking me? Right, like, where is this coming from? And she was kind of like, both end. He's drunk and he's tired. Yeah, I definitely didn't really get why everyone was like, and it feels like they're just trying to look for someone to, like, attack a little bit. Like, I didn't get, like... I understand Jasmine's discomfort with his drinking because he has like been drunk and inappropriate with her and her partner and so like for me she is the only one who really has a valid place to be like. You know, his drinking doesn't feel totally safe to me. Like, that feels like a place where he's not fully, like, even though he apologized, I don't know that he fully... Has control over that thing. But like Janet coming in and being like, oh, my God, he trapped me in like the closet to take a shot. And I felt so weird and unsafe. And it's like, and we're hiding this secret. Stop being that girl. Stop being this girl. Like, I just can't. I can't with you. Oh my God. It feels like she's always looking to, and it does feel kind of rooted in Janet, like starting it, right? Like kind of starting these things where like, it's like this person's evil. This person's really bad. Well, that is the first time that I kind of understood why people didn't like Janet. Um, I think it comes from like a fandom or like wanting to create storylines too. Yeah. I mean, they all do. Like I heard, Zach used to be the lead singer from Pussycat Dolls like assistant and apparently always wanted to be on reality TV. It was like his dream. And I'm like, it feels, that's what's interesting about the valley is it feels like everyone really needs the show and wants to show, but from an authentic place. It, Similar to Salt Lake City Mormon Wives. I think to show like if you're going to say a thesis of what the valley is about, to me, it feels like it's an exploration of like how to when you're an adult who's supposed to have their shit together, have kids. What happens after that? Because it's a you seeing like all these different people react in very different ways. And I think Danny used to be the party guy like he's like to go out and have parties. he can clearly not do that anymore so the rare times he can he needs to go like balls to the wall that's what's really the story and like it's interesting do i think he's like an alcoholic like jacks like I mean, not that we've seen. We've not seen enough, though, you know? Right, like, does it feel like his relationship with alcohol leads him to, like, places where he gets out of control and does things that he clearly regrets? Like, yeah. And I think that's something he's gonna have to look at. Um, but also like I think about like he's a dad of three and like the few times he gets to like go out and indulge like it, you know. It's hard, the way they're villainizing it doesn't feel accurate to, like, what's playing out. Like, okay, he got drunk and passed out and missed dinner. This isn't like... He's not a terrorist. Like, it's not like terrible behavior. No, totally. And compared to Jesse and Jax, it's kind of like, oh, my God, you're going to come for this guy? Like, because he chugged wine at the winery. Let him chug the wine. He's got to go home to three kids and he's about to get his wife pregnant again from the fourth. Yeah, but then who was it? Was it Janet or somebody threw out that like. Nia had secretly been going to Al-Anon and like, I was like, that's like a way more serious accusation than I feel like anyone's trying to throw out. Now I'm trying to think if that was on the show or on the 400 podcast these people go on every day. I thought it was on the show, but I can be wrong. Or maybe the after show. I did actually. Well, I just missed it. and then I just want to say, uh, Luke is Van Gogh, like, reincarnated. Potentially. But I really like Luke this season. I'm like, wow. I feel like he's showing up. He's like, he's getting more comfortable with being in this role of reality star and he's like showing up. So I agree. And I guess he kind of committed to Kristen's, like, life in a way, too. Like, it seems like he's living in LA. Living in LA, yeah. He's kind of, like, given up that, like, maybe that other life that he lived and is embracing it. Yeah, and I mean, I'm really, I love how much he wants to, like, give Kristen a baby Like, it seems very sweet and authentic. Um. Michelle and Jesse, like, you know, we were talking about doing a podcast on them and I think my problem with it is that we didn't see any of their relationship. Like, when we come in, she hates him so much. Right, we're at this place with them where they both just seem to hate each other and- They're both throwing like toxic bombs at each other and poking at each other and picking at each other like we didn't, there's no like part where it's like okay this is the foundation of why they were together and so we get it and so we can kind of start to like. Like, explore, like, what went wrong and, the different, things that developed over time that clearly created tension from one side or the other. And so, like... There it feels like there is no side here. Well, in the after show, they go into like, why did you fall in love in the first place? The producer asked them this question, like forces them to answer. And they were basically just saying that like. Michelle said Jesse was sort of in this world of like high real estate that she wanted to be in. They traveled a lot. He taught her a lot of things because he's much older than her, which I didn't even really like clock, I guess. Yeah, they seem very similar aged, but. But yeah, I guess he's like more than like around ten years older than her. I could be wrong. then they were kind of like when we had Isabella is when everything went to shit which goes back to like I think the thesis of the show is What happens when you have kids? Um, she gave like a very detailed thing again on her podcast about her labor experience and how Jesse was trying to like force her to have like a natural birth and like. I think she ended up having a c-section or something, but I don't know. She tells this horrible story about like how Jesse was acting when she was giving birth and maybe I was just like particularly triggered, but I was like, holy shit. Um, I could see like some of the things she's talked about. I'm like, okay, that's relationship ending right there. Like you don't come back from that unless there's like significant Repair. So I get why she hates him so much and why there's so much like bitterness. But then at the same time, I'm like, I don't know. It's hard to like Michelle. Well, there's something like condescending about the way that she treats him that it then makes it like he'll do something horrible but then she's super condescending towards him and it's like What came first the chicken or the egg like where like this cycle seems to be something they each have a role in. Um, and look, like, Jesse is insufferable. I feel like I don't know if I would want to spend a whole day with him. It feels like I might want to, like, I don't know. Give myself a lobotomy to spend time with him. But I also feel like Michelle is like so condescending towards him and that it like. It's similar to like what I feel with car like girl if you just stop saying things like you would have the upper hand here. Yeah, I mean because even with this whole thing about like His girlfriend and like wanting Isabella and like she has like a valid point about like wanting like that being concerning and it's like but also you have a partner that you're bringing around that like it feels like you can't. Have both ways where I, like, if I do it, it's okay, but if you do it, it's a problem. Yeah, there was a little like, um, well in the business we call them round robins where you get to see a little bit of everyone's life and there was a moment where Jessie's trying to call Isabella and she ignores her call and she's on the phone with Aaron. And he's like, oh, Isabella, tell her, tell him you love him or whatever. And I was like, Right, like, it's very. That's not, that's not good. Yeah, and she definitely rushed into a very serious thing with him too, so it's kind of like, and it's just interesting that both of them are like, I'm happy, I'm happy. Acknowledge my happiness. And it's like, neither of you seem happy. If either of you were that happy, you would not hate each other as much. Well, and apparently her boyfriend was, like, wasted at the valet premiere party, by the way. Danny style. Do we want to check in on Love Hotel before we wrap up? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shannon is Shannon-ing on Love Hotel. Full Shannon-ing. And it's like, it's tough because I like want to be on her side about the Earl thing, but then I know too much. And I'm like, why girl, you gots to do this. And she's just like energy vampiring the other women, right? She's like, I'm in crisis, so don't enjoy yourselves. Come take care of me. And it's like, Shannon-ing the whole thing. It is interesting to see her with a different group of women and how they kind of react to her. But yeah, she's doing. But they're kind of reacting the same, right? Like, oh, God, Shannon's in crisis. Let's go take care of her. And even like that scene with Ashley, she's like sitting with the guy at the bar and Shannon comes in. The guy's like, I'm gonna go now. He's like, I don't want to talk about Shannon's DUI and look at her bloody face again. Right, like, this is too dark. This is, like, not what this experience should be about. I mean, I also, like. Her healing of the DUI is just wild to me. Yeah. Um, but I do agree that Earl, like, On paper doesn't make a lot of sense in some ways. Like he lives out of state. They have very different lifestyles. Very different values. Yeah, like it. And all of that seems valid, but I thought there was such an opportunity when they walked away from that table. So they start fighting at the table about him not eating vegetables or whatever. And, you know, he is very vulnerable with her and he's like, you know, when you start criticizing me, it triggered me because my ex-wife used to do that and I just got triggered. And then she kind of says something that, you know, like a similar thing like I was triggered by you because of my experience like this and it felt like they were both like coming from really valid places. And I feel like that was a moment of really like, oh, you could really deepen your relationship right now and working this through. Because that really deepens something with yourself of like, oh, I recognize something within myself that comes up when I'm in interaction with somebody. And I've like heard this a lot that like the partner you choose is that you choose will often like be the person that triggers like some of the deepest like. Whatever bullshit in your past or whatever and that's normal but like I think often in relationships When you're first dating someone, if that happens, you just like walk away, which sometimes totally makes sense. Like maybe that person is just like not for you. Um, but it's also like, then if you do that, you're going to get probably triggered two years in. Or, you know, when you're already married or whatever. And then you have to do that work when you're in a much deeper relationship. So I thought that that was like an interesting moment for them to like actually work it through and it could have been really good for their relationship. It could have been good for Shannon to, like, be able to, like, show that sense of, like, accountability that, like, oh, like, these things happen in connection with each other and not just because... Men are out here like they're the bad guys and I don't do anything wrong. Well, and I don't know if it's her fault or his fault, but there was a turning point in the conversation where he said, um, this is kind of silly, like we should move past, like, you know, Whatever. And then she just like, you're invalidating my feelings. You're invalidating my feelings. And to me, I'm like. Well, it was silly. I think it wasn't wrong for him to say it was silly. Um, because it was, but that He is the one who brought up the deeper reason for why the fight happened. But then on her end, it was like, you're invalidating my feelings, which I get why she felt that way. But then she didn't allow him to really like respond and She kind of just shut down. So I don't know. I mean, I guess they're gonna have another talk next week or whatever. Yeah, I actually I'm really liking this love hotel. I do wish they had cast someone else besides Ashley. I just think she's like so much younger and doesn't totally like make sense with this group of women. Yeah, it's pretty, the age range is so weird. I also feel like Luann is like not, she, the rumor is right, she had like a boyfriend when she was going into this and that kind of seems true because she doesn't seem to be like... Fully engaging in the idea of like relationship with any of these people in a serious way, which I feel like she might if she was authentically single. Well, she seems to with this new guy, the Santa Monica guy. Yeah, no, I don't see it. I mean, the casting is both superb and chaotic. Terrible. Like, like on so many levels. Like, where do they find these men? But it is very weird. The, the age gap. Part with Ashley. It's definitely making it weird. Um. Yeah, I think you said Heather Gay would have been really good on this show. She would have been. I thought she would have been interesting because She would bring a similar energy to Ashley but make a little more sense in, like, life stage. Yeah, like age and like age appropriateness, like, because the thing is, none of us want to see Ashley with an old dude again, we want to see her date someone more in her age range more and equal like we want to see her in that kind of relationship. And she's really only got two options of that and, like, those don't even feel like good options for her. Well, everyone loves Ralph. But is he old man Bradley Cooper? Yeah. Why? But like, why? I'm like, he just, his face kind of looks like Bradley Cooper to me. I mean, he does seem like a very sweet soul, but I'm not. I think he's just like kind of the best, technically best looking. Like, let's be honest. These women are, you know, vanity is high. Yeah, like. Oh, my God. Craig certainly didn't stand a chance. That was the most. That would be so sad. He would have been so fun to watch continue to like. Oh my God. I was like, please put this man out of his misery. Oh my God. Um, yeah. I mean, at first I wasn't sold on the format. I thought the first two episodes were really weird. Um, but the third episode is starting to like. Get interesting. And I think it was good. They, I hope they keep bringing in more men. I like that. It's like Love Island sort of themed. Yeah, so I, I can get behind it. I would, I would like to see them do another season of it probably. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because there's, like, not actually that many housewives for them to choose from as far as, like, completely single women. Well, you know, Kyle Richards would be all about it now. She's got to save her. Would she? And, like... I don't, I don't, I don't actually think I would enjoy her on this show. Erica Jane? Erica could be fun. Maybe they should have done Erica instead of Luann, like if Luann had a relationship and maybe that's why Luann was hiding her relationship because they were like, oh, they're going to replace me. Oh my gosh, Sonia Morgan? Well, Sonia needs to, like, go to rehab maybe. Yeah, we got to do a Sonya episode. Um, so it's been one year. Oh, happy anniversary. Happy anniversary. What have we learned? Not learned. What are we going to change? Not change. We're trying to say like less. Oh yeah. But I feel like we may have given, we may have given up on that. I feel that I'm trying, um, and also not trying, so. I feel like I've learned that I'm like way more sympathetic to men than I thought I was. I know. That's like the surprising result of this that we're like weirdly on men's side and now I don't know like what's wrong with us. Right. I feel like there's something wrong with my brain. Also because, I mean, let's just say we have glowing reviews from our. Glowing. But. We love you all. Any of the negative reviews felt very like male oriented and I was like, fuck you. You can leave. Shashay away. Well, I feel like someone called me woke and like they're wanting me to be offended by that. But I'd rather be woke than asleep. I don't, like, what's the opposite of woke? Like, ignorant? Yeah, like, aren't we supposed to be trying to be more evolved? Like... Well, I thought it was really funny that they thought we were fighting during the like Catherine Dennis Calhoun episode. Or anytime you think we're fighting, we're not. Like, well, and I thought it was really funny because that episode was like a sleeper hit. Like it didn't have a lot of downloads. And then like more recently, it's like gone way up. It's like one of our highest downloaded episodes. And that was like, people are curious about Catherine. I know and she's been off the air for so, like, so long and we recorded it as like one of our earliest podcasts when we had like no idea what the fuck we were doing. Let's go back and listen to that. Well, it was a funny thing because maybe it's because of stories I've heard or whatever, but like, you know, I, I feel like she was a little bit more strategic about what she was doing to get on the show, get with Thomas, da-da-da-da. But she slept with everyone on the show, like, Whatever. Um, but you have like. She's as strategic as like a twenty-five year old at the time could have been. Well, she was like twenty-one I think. She was really young. Yeah, she was like a baby, yeah. And then you were very much like protective of like, oh, she was so young. And like, it is kind of shocking. And you know, when you go back and watch those early episodes, you are kind of like, holy crap, she's so young. She's so young. Um, but I guess that came off as like us fighting because I was kind of like, man, she had agency in this. And then you were like, she was a baby. Her brain was fully damaged. I'm still defensive of Catherine. I think the show may have ruined her. I don't know. She probably would have gone down the path that she was going down either way. Um, but I'm sure the show made it even more intense to be. Well, I wish we knew more about like the custody stuff and I wish we like understood all of that more because South Carolina is a freaking wild state. Well, so there's just no way that relationship isn't, like, there's an abuse of power, right? Like, Thomas is older, he has more resource, like, there's no way that wasn't a part of that dynamic, I'm sorry. Well, especially if we got, she got our kids taken away for smoking weed. Like, that's insane. And like. Which I don't, I'm sure it was a little bit more than, it seems like she was doing more than. Well, that's why. That's why it's, like, I would be very interested to know more about it because, like, if you know anything about murder on murders or, like, a lot of cases, like, there's an old boys club. Yeah. And, I mean, her kids go into the custody of the guy who went to jail for cocaine. Like... Yeah, and he like, like, assaulted their nanny, apparently. Right, like, neither of them are well people and I still think there's, like, a abuse just based on, like, power dynamic and him being the perpetrator, um. You know, I wish the best for Catherine, I really do. I hope she, like, does some good therapy, can maintain some sobriety and get her mental health stable. I think, like, she could be a really good mom if, you know, gotten to a good, stable, supported place. I think she's a great example of like why we started this podcast to be like, okay, some people maybe should take a step back from reality TV, whether they're good, like Lindsey Hubbard. Whatever you think of her is a great reality star. Bethany Frankel, great reality star. Like, Jax Taylor, I'm a little bit like. I think maybe he should be a reality star, yeah. Maybe, bro, you should step away. And whatever time you had away, it wasn't enough. No. Yeah, and I and we had like, you know, not totally negative episode about him, but obviously this is before we knew he was abusive towards Brittany, like truly abusive. I mean, there was always, though, I don't know, or I feel like our episode does kind of speak to that potential in him in that, you know, being narcissistic traits, manipulator, snake charmer. Yeah. And he like, that's why. And Jesse gets me sometimes, too, where I'm like, fuck, do I like this guy? And then when, and then, you know, Michelle's like, he's just like Jax, he manipulates, he manipulates, and I'm like. I don't know what to like believe. And then the after show with Jesse Jax and Tom Schwartz. Poor Schwartz. Schwartz literally looks like. He's like, I just feel my stock plummeting every time they show me with these two guys. And he's like, he's literally like, he has the most serious face. No, it's a pain face. Yeah. And he's always like, do I say something? What are they going to say? And how is that going to reflect on me? Yeah, and he's always, and then they always turn to him like, what do you think, Tom? And then he's like, well, I didn't get any panties on that bus. I don't know what he's talking about. And then Jack's always, always like, oh, have my back, man. And then he's like, I don't want to be in this. I might be done with that. I loved him on Summer House, though. Like, I love Tom Schwartz on Summer House. Maybe he needs to move to New York and, like, be on Summer House. That could be fun. I could be into that. Or if they do a, I don't know, let him go work for Loverboy and he could be part of that series. Yeah. Oh, I, I, he's had a glow up. I like Schwartz. I think so. I don't trust him. I mean, he seems a little less, like, dumb. He definitely seems, like, more aware, but there's something about him that I just, like, don't trust that I, like... Can feel that he is moving from, like, in authentic places. But I'm open to seeing more of him. Well, we really want to do an episode on Sonya. Yeah, Sonia. Tell us what you guys think. Should we do something on Sonia or is what's happening with her too dark? We don't know what's happening with her. Exactly, but it seems dark. Not paying tabs, getting sent home in ambulances. I mean... If this, if Roni was still airing, it'd be par for the course. Yeah. See, they need to do Real Housewives of West Palm Beach. That would be hilarious. Just bring back all the problematic queens that are now in Florida, the most problematic state. It's like perfect. I know. I know. I feel like speaking of woke, um, Bravo had their woke period and by keeping Jax Taylor on our screens tells you everything you need to know about. They've fallen to the wayside. They are done with their woke era for sure. I mean, I understand that woke doesn't really sell. To whoever wrote that review. Our wokeness is over. Next season. Next season, you're gonna get some dumb bitches. well, we really appreciate everyone listening to our podcast. Um, we cannot believe we've had more than ten people listen to it. Um, the numbers have been crazy. and you know, we want to do more with it. And if anyone wants to sponsor us for BravoCon, You know, we'll truck our asses to Las Vegas. There might be a lot of complaining about Las Vegas though. Um, if you would like to be our Bravo con on the ground reporter, send us all the tea. Send us all the tea, come on the pod, That would save us from having to go to Las Vegas. Oh, man, that's almost a better idea. Whoever goes and wants to be a guest on our pod afterwards, like, we would love to have you. Yeah, so... Thank you all for listening to us for one year of chatting. Thank you for coming on the journey today of this chaotic episode and all of our thoughts and feelings and reflections. And, uh, We'll be back soon.