The World Awaits: travel tales to inspire your wanderlust
Where does your wanderlust lead you?
To Melbourne’s cafes or the vast deserts of the Empty Quarter, a New Zealand vineyard or the pavements of New York… what’s your neighbourhood?
Join travel journalists and editors Kirstie Bedford and Belinda Jackson for inspiring stories and inside information from across the world.
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The World Awaits: travel tales to inspire your wanderlust
EP 131 The Art of Navigation with wilderness advocate Caro Ryan OAM; travel trends for 2026 & Victoria's hottest new opens
Bushwalker. Author. Advocate. Rescuer.
Our guest this week is Caro Ryan, who has just been awarded an Order of Australia Medal for 14 years of service in bushwalking safety and community support in the Australia Day Honours 2026.
Caro leads a 60-person strong specialist Bush Search and Rescue team for the NSW SES in the Blue Mountains, where she lives. And her book, How to Navigate teaches people just that - the art of navigation and map reading, which she says is essential for safe bushwalking and getting people outdoors, connected to and caring for nature.
Caro runs navigation courses including the upcoming Introduction to Navigation with Caro Ryan: Flinders Island Edition with Tasmanian Expeditions. And we ask for her best one-day and multi-day walks in Australia and overseas. See lotsafreshair.com
Also, we announce the winners of our giveaway of two of the best travel hat ever (tried and tested by the podcast team!) Tune in to listen to see if you won a Bahama Flexibraid Fedora by Australian designer Tina M Copenhagen!
And finally, Airbnb reveals five travel trends that it says will dominate 2026 and our tip this week is about discovering what's new in Victoria this coming year. Whew!
Read Belle's forecasts in the Australian Financial Review: https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury/travel/the-best-restaurants-hotels-and-happenings-coming-to-victoria-in-2026-20260106-p5ns67
Visit us at https://theworldawaits.au
Welcome to the World Awaits. Travel tales to inspire your wonderlust. Welcome back to the World Awaits. How has your week been, Kirsty?
SPEAKER_00:It is hot. So hot here in Melbourne, but we cannot complain because it wasn't that long ago we were complaining that we were too cold. So we did our ceases seem to have just gone from hot to cold. But it is the perfect time for a gorgeous Tina M Copenhagen Fedora hat, which is what we're giving away. So yes, we had a giveaway and um we have a winner.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, we absolutely do have a winner. In fact, we even have two winners because we were giving away two hats. If you had entered via our Facebook page or our Instagram pages, both of which are called the World Awaits Podcast. And the winners are Kate Croc and Tina Mendocino. So yay! We will contact you uh for the best postal address and we will send out this absolutely beautiful hat, uh, which is a an ivory fedora by Tina M. Copenhagen. I have to say, fabulous travel brand. The hats are designed here in Australia. Um Tina is in uh is originally from Denmark, if you couldn't tell by her name. The hats are beautiful, they are broad-brimmed. I have not taken mine off um scene last at the Australian Open. Broad brimmed, have a beautiful detail in them. She makes for the Cancer Council. They are SPF 50, so they protect you. They look fabulous, they stop hat hair. There is nothing you do not love about these. So, congratulations to two of our winners.
SPEAKER_00:So, make sure you keep listening because we will have other giveaways coming up, including some fabulous destination focused crime books by author Andrea Barton, who I'm gonna interview in a couple of weeks, and she's gonna talk about um her books that are set in the places that she's lived. So, moving on this week, and Airbnb has five major trends predicted to define how travellers are going to explore 2026. Now, look, it's still January, so we are particularly just still interested in um yeah, in the trends piece for 2026, and and we thought these were quite interesting. Some of them you've heard of, but there are some surprises in there.
SPEAKER_03:So the first major trend that Airbnb is talking about is maximum adventure minimum commitment. So max adventure minimum commitment, Gen Z is re redefining the quick trip with a one-to-two-day getaway. When I was a girl, a quick trip was just a week. Um and uh so this trend has been increasing over the past three years, and the hotspots for such stays include Albany in WA. So I think you've got to live in Western Australia to do that because it takes you a day to get there. Uh Lonceston in Tassie, which has great connections with the mainland and an insane food scene, the Southern Downs in Queensland, and a surprise one is uh Shebidon in Victoria.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and another one is um it's time to touch grass trend, which is about um Australians who are going to be heading off the beaten track because of the surge in off-grid retreats. I mean, this has been growing for a really long time, but increasingly now we are seeing it and more and more people are talking about this trend towards obviously disconnecting and and and reconnecting with the family. And obviously, you know, nature's a great way to do that. So the ones on this list were Shoalhaven, New South Wales, Glenmorgan Spring Bay and Tassie, Baz Coast in Victoria and Bustleton and WA. And internationally on that list was um Agoa in India, Indonesia, and also Sardinia. And do not get me started on Sardinia. Um, but we did obviously, anyone who's a regular listener would have heard um me ranting on for weeks on end about the 210k cycle I did around south of Sardinia. Um oh my gosh, what a remarkable place, and it definitely is a place to get off the beaten track. In the south, the north's totally different, it's quite busy and sort of all about resorts. But the south of Sardinia, and we were there in peak time too, um, in June, July, it was just spectacular. The roads are quiet, the beaches are quiet, there's no one really around, and it's really it's just beautiful, it's pretty. You go, you know, there's lots of medieval villages and and gorgeous beaches, so yep, definitely one I think um is a good one for that list.
SPEAKER_03:A place to go touch the grass. And of course, the Bass Coast is um is actually where you are at the moment, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Like, isn't Phillip Island part of the Bass Coast? One of my favourite stomping grounds in Phillip Island. Uh so yeah, this is again, um, if you have a look at my uh any follow me on Insta or anything, you'll see that all of the hikes and um yeah, bikes that we do around Phillip Island, which is obviously a real sort of nature playground. So yeah, love it, love it here too.
SPEAKER_03:Awesome. Um, another one of these trends from Airbnb is mainstage tourism, which I've got to say, I I I'm totally on board with this one, seeing it as a trend. This is where major cultural, sporting, and music events aren't just driving social trends but travel ones as well. So 65% of the top search dates and cities in 2026 align with global moments like the Winter Olympics, like the FIFA World Cup, which is um this year being held in the US, Canada, and Mexico. Uh, and Carnivale. Well, here in Australia, we are flocking to the Australian Open. Oh my goodness, I have flocked with the best of them. Um, the Asian Women's World Cup, and to watch global superstars such as Lord and Bad Bunny as the Gold Coast beats Brisbane for travelers seeking out sports and gigs. So the top locations for 2026 for this trend of main stage tourism is Melbourne. Hello, thank you very much. You're always welcome. Got the Gold Coast Adelaide City of Festivals, although sometimes their festivals do go a bit awry as we've seen the Adelaide Writers Week. Oh my goodness, that was a disaster. And also Brisbane. But then internationally, we are going to Toronto in Canada, to Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, to shake our tail feathers. Um we're going to Mexico and to Milan as well in Italy. I mean, there's there's always a good reason. You know, you don't really need a reason to go to Italy, but um uh to Milan in particular, its interior design and furniture um trend setting is really quite phenomenal. I've covered that in the past, and it's just a really fascinating city. Like it's uh it's actually quite hard to I found it quite hard to get into its soul. Um, you know, look particularly in the south, you'll see in Italian cities, you know, people are out in the piazzas and walking and stuff after after dinner and all of that sort of thing, and life lives on the streets. Whereas I found Milan to be much more closed. I mean, it is the financial capital and a fashion hub as well. I thought it was you really had to deep you had to know where you were going on that one. It's a very interesting city.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, which is such a contrast to like Rome, where obviously um I don't know, Rome, Rome always feels Rome feels not as big to me as I think people, you know, as is you know, that we talk it up. It's just um such a great, easy place to get around and and um really you feel so connected. Well, I did, I do, I do, I just love Rome. Um, right, another trend is the drop the significant other pick up the backpack trend. That's a very long trend, um, which is basically just all about me time. So uh, I mean, everyone's been going on about this for a while, solo travel, experiencing a renaissance. And it says that this is fuelled by online conversations that encourage self-discovery over relationship status. And popular hotspots to travel away on your own are Bustleton WA, the Surf Coast and Vic, which is you know Torquay Way, which is a bit of an odd one, I would have thought, but anyway. Um, and then Winja Caribbe, which is in the Southern Highlands, and the Gold Coast. Um, yeah, those wouldn't be places I wouldn't necessarily be picking for solo time, but anyway, internationally, uh it is Casa del Sol in Spain, the Algarve in Portugal, Tromso in Norway, and Inverness in Scotland.
SPEAKER_03:I love Inverness, I think absolutely gorgeous. Um, I don't know, the Costa del Sol, isn't that do you go on your own because you're trying to um hit the party scene and and hook up with everybody? Maybe that's why you go holo time. Um yeah, but I do love the Southern Highlands as well. It has um such gorgeous scene, like the scenery is beautiful, the hiking is great, amazing hotels. I'm a big fan of the um South of Sydney. And we are getting our hands on foodie travel, which is of course, it I don't know, it can can it get any bigger? Um the answer to that is actually yes, it can, with wine regions and culinary escapes topping both search lists and wish lists. Because let's be honest, everything tastes better when you've stirred the pot yourself. I don't know, I quite like other people cooking for me. Um I'm thinking I'm thinking about that one. And also remember, of course, friends, there are no calories in holiday foods. So um, fueled by viral TikTok, oh these are chasing their next flavour fix from vineyard pores to hands-on cooking classes. And the destinations that are trending for culinary food and wine experiences are Canberra with its cold climate vineyards, um, the Beager Valley in New South Wales, I go there just to eat cheese, just nom nom nom, like all the cheese. Um, East Gippsland, which I thought was quite interesting. Um, you know, it's it's uh it's so it's so remote. Um, but if you're a seafood fan, you're over there. And Bandeberg in Queensland, because we all like drinking Bundy rum, but also all of the other delicious tropical stuff that's going on there. Internationally, we're going to Var in France, to Bangalore in India. Uh, Melbourne, hello, because we have fabulous restaurants, and we're going to talk a bit more about those later on. Um, Lisbon is still smoking hot. Istanbul cannot get any hotter, I can say. I mean, the food, there is an Istanbul injection, of course, when you fly in compared to when you fly out of Istanbul airport, is generally about a four to six kilo increase because the foods like just bring me all the kebab, all of the the fried eggplant, the street food scene is phenomenal. Um, also, of course, Paris, because um no life is complete without um a macaron and a kosmone a day, and Tokyo, because because Japan, because millions of us are just going there and we are stuffing our chops, and we're going there specifically for those culinary experiences. So if you would like to chase up those ideas a little more, we will put a link to the Airbnb research in the show notes. My guest this week is Wilderness Navigator, Walker, author, and also podcaster Caro Ryan. And what was it about Caro, despite the fact that she's fabulous, that made you want to chat with her about well, amazingly, Caro has just been awarded a Medal of the Order of Australia in this year's Australia Day Honours list, and it is absolutely well deserved. And we send Caro her congratulations because while she is an author, she doesn't just sit at her desk, she also leads a 60-person strong specialist bush search and rescue team for the New South Wales SES in the Blue Mountains. And her book, How to Navigate, teaches people just that, the art of navigation and map reading, which she says is essential for safe bushwalking. She's basically the Australian Bear Grills. So take a listen. Caro, welcome to The World Await. So exciting to have you on. Thank you for coming.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's so great to be here, Belle. I've been looking for look, I've been looking forward to this for ages. In fact, I every time I listen to one of your episodes and I get to that thing at the end, that special question, which hopefully we'll come to, I think, oh, if only I was asked this question, I've got so many answers for you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, you've been on the list forever. We're um yeah, and you know, I think a lot of our listeners really love hiking as well. So you're a natural choice for that. And 2026 is a big year for you. So we're gonna jump into all of that because you've got a lot of exciting things happening. But first, let us um let's set up the scene. Tell us a little about yourself and how you got into this incredible job as pretty much a profession a professional walker.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, look, I have had a bit of a long and winding journey to this point. And I grew up in a family that wasn't outdoorsy. We weren't bushwalkers, we weren't campers, we weren't any of those things. And uh the thing that really piqued my interest, I guess, into nature and into outdoor spaces was that sense of adventure and that sense of exploration and discovery and an innate curiosity. Like I am just ridiculously curious about the why and the how. And as a kid, I used to love reading Enid Blyton and the folk of the fireaway tree and the enchanted wood and all of that kind of thing. Um, so mix that with a bit of famous five, you know, adventure as as children, and that's what I wanted. So rather than sort of, you know, realizing it was a world that could be mine and that I could be a part of, you know, it wasn't until I, you know, got into my twenties, really, is when it really started to fall into place. And I I actually read this article in this, in the it was it was actually the good weekend. It was a tiny little piece where a journo had been taken out with a bushwalking club, the Sydney Bushwalkers Club that I'm a member and have been now for decades. Um, and I remember reading this journey's line, which was, oh my God, I thought I was going to die, but I've never felt so alive. And the fact that the club took this journey out, um, I think it was a big full day walk here in the Blue Mountains. It's probably about 25Ks, is the loop that they were doing, climbing Mount Solitry and over the other side. And I thought that's the world I want. That's the adventure, that's the discovery, that's the exploration, that's the curiosity, that's that connectedness to this world around us that I wanted to experience. But I didn't know anyone who did it. So, you know, I I followed down the rabbit hole and joined the club that he had gone out with. And I mean, it's a cliche to say the rest is history, but it really is. Yeah. Amazing. Totally changed my life. Totally changed my life.
SPEAKER_03:So um, given on an average uh in an average month for you, um, what sort of work do we see you doing? I mean, we see you writing, you are on radio a lot, talking about it, you are walking all over the world. You do guided walks, uh, you take guided walks, but you also have a particular um focus on on safe walking. And I I say this knowing that you are, I mean, you live in the Blue Mountains, you're very active with their SES, you are in the search and rescue team, you you um you're like you're like the person that I want to walk with in case I do fall down at abandoned mineshaft, you know, and I don't have Lassie with me to call me out, basically.
SPEAKER_01:Where's Lassie? Lassie, come home. Um yeah, lots of hats. So I and I feel sometimes like I wear probably too many hats because I just want to say yes to anything that that connects to, I guess, my why in life that I discovered through the bush, which is wanting to connect people to natural places and to wild places, but in ways that not just look after the wild place. So that whole sense of leave no trace and walking gently with the landscape, um, but also that look after us as people. And I when I joined, yes, I mentioned Sydney Bushwalkers Club years ago, uh, after a few years there and becoming a leader within the club, I then got into search and rescue as a volunteer. And so that's now 20 years at least, I think. Um, so yeah, I head up the SES's specialist unit, Bush Search and Rescue, here in the Blue Mountains and look after and an amazing, I say look after, that sounds a bit too over the top, but yeah, I'm privileged to be part of a team of about 60 um volunteers up here in the mountains. And to me, that's the sense, it's like I want to, I want to be put out of my volunteer role. You know, I don't want to have to put on a uniform. I don't want to have to go and be in a a beautiful place, a place that people visit because they want to experience and that sense of curiosity that I said I had, but to be there and to see maybe their family, their loved ones, their friends having the worst day of their lives because someone that they know and love hasn't come home. So, you know, it it was back in 2012 when I thought, you know, why do we keep going out looking for people who keep getting lost for the same reasons? And to me, it was a comms gap, it was a communications gap. So there was this sense of um those messages around how do people not only be safe, but have fun? Like you're not gonna have a great time walking uh in the bush if you're gonna be struggling and having a horrendous time of it. So, how do we get people to have a fabulous time, do what they want to do in the way they want to do it, that looks after nature, looks after themselves, and brings them home to then want to become advocates for these wild places, wanting to actually get involved and whether it be maybe conservation or in sharing this savor message to their own communities. Um, so for me, that cons gap is what led me on this uh multiple hat wearing job that I do. So, yes, a bit of travel writing for the outdoors press, um, a little bit for non, you know, more traditional travel writing press. But the website that I run was this hope to try and get these information out there, these tips, these tricks, these ways of enjoying and loving, not enduring uh wild places. And then that led to um, you know, I've written a book on navigation, I've I teach navigation courses, um, but also just a lot of that stuff in the social media space to try and encourage. So it's not just about educating people, it's about inspiring them to want to go to incredible places, but then um encouraging them that they can. So it's not just the education piece, it's like it's hey, there's a great place that's amazing, I would love to experience. Then it's like, oh, now I've got the tools to experience and I've got the ex the capability to go and do it myself. Oh, and then the encouragement to say, actually, you can go and do that. And I think it's really it's fascinating that you said, you know, 2026 is, you know, there's a lot happening in the world. And in terms of walking and walking holidays, the rise in uh people visiting national parks, the rise in people visiting, you know, the the top-down waterfalls in the Blue Mountains, those kind of things which are kind of it makes me cringe in a lot of ways, because even though it's fabulous to see so many people wanting to, you know, after COVID and after all those kind of things that we've been through, to discover nature and to want to spend time in these places that restore their souls. But the because this is a new generation of people who are doing it, this is people who maybe didn't grow up with scouts, maybe didn't grow up with um guides or rovers venturers, or in families who did that, where you sort of had this natural mentorship to take them into world places, to teach them how to look after these places and themselves. That with this social media, this new way of communicating, um there's now, I feel, this disconnect between people, they'll swipe, swipe, swipe, and scroll and See, you know, this beautiful lookout in Instagram, or they'll swipe, swipe, swipe and see a beautiful um swimming hole or a waterfall, and they go, Great, I'm going there. And they just see the image, and they don't there's a disconnect between what they need to do to get to that image and this sense of of instantaneous, like, oh, there's an image. I want it. I'm gonna go and get it. Rather than thinking, oh, that's actually a 10 kilometer hike. Oh, and it's it's over a, you know, there's gonna be a thousand meters of ascent and descent, you know, climb and descent over the day. Over 10 kilometers, well, that's probably needs a bit of fitness. Oh, actually, maybe summer's not the best time for me to do that walk because I'll probably have to carry about four litres of water, which is like, oh, that's about four kilos in my pack. It's probably not gonna be a great experience. I know I'll train for that, or I'll get fitter, or I'll get some skills under my belt, or I'll find a great guiding company who can take me there. And so, you know, it it's just everything has changed. Um, and I think we're at this point where we've got this opportunity within the outdoors community, the outdoors industry, the travel industry, when we're looking for companies to go with, or if we're looking for independent travel, and I'm a big believer in that as well, like actually getting the skills yourselves to go out and do these things, make wise choices. Choose companies that not only have really well qualified guides, who have things like wilderness first aid, remote area first aid training, who've got all the gear and the experience. Um, but also look, and I can get on my hobby also with this one, slight tangent here. But companies that pay their guides appropriately, because interestingly enough, and this comes as a big shock to people, and I'm not talking now, it's obvious people might be thinking this is the case in international travel and guiding in other countries. But even within Australia, the outdoor guides, so outdoor recreation and outdoor education, this one of the lowest paid professions in the whole country. I learned to navigate uh early in my bushwalking days because there was a point where I felt I lost my agency, where I didn't have the skills, and I felt myself having to not only be the female, and I think there's a there is a gender piece about navigation skills because there's this sense that in society, oh, it was the boys who were the Boy Scouts, and they're the ones with these skills. So it's really interesting watching the different people who either come along to one of my courses or who buy the book, and I can see these different uh demographics and the statistics that are coming through. So I wanted to write a book that demystifies navigation because I think there's this sense that it is some sort of um, you know, dark art. It's it's turning, what is it called? Um, when you turn lead to gold, it's that sense of there's some mystery with it, and ooh, only the really smart people who understand technical language can learn to use a map and compass. But it's actually not the case. And I think it all comes down to being able to communicate to people in whatever different style they receive information. Like there's so many different training styles and learning styles we have as people. So whether we're visual learners or we like to hear something, or we need to practice and do it ourselves, or we need to read something. And and I wanted to put it in this plain language that demystifies and takes all the jargon out of using a compass, reading a topographic map, and explaining it in ways that we get. So one of the things I love is that even the word topographic, so that the maps we use for navigating in in the bush and in wild places, comes from the Greek topos graphion. So topos, topo, land, place, graphian to write. And when you think where that's writing the story of place, and that's exactly what a topographic map does. And I think for for us as writers and for people who love storytelling, really, um a topographic map unpacks the story of place, the story of country, the story of land, and lets us read it. So I like to think it's like it's like reading the book before you see the movie. So you get your topographic map and you go, I know what it's gonna feel like when I stand at this lookout on this map because I can see the land drops way before me. I'm at the top, I'm at the end of this big uh peninsula of rock, and I'm gonna feel I'm a thousand meters elevated above the valley below me. And wow, that would be a great place for me to go for sunrise. So that's what one of the things I love is yeah, unlocking navigation and putting it into everyday language. And I think there's this, again, coming back to this uh traditional form that navigation has been taught and written about by by men, and there's this technical style language because that's how they were taught, whether it be in the military or in scouts, all those kind of things, where actually that's only one part of the population. The rest of us speak in this other everyday language. So if we can put navigation terms into everyday language, then it's this way of unlocking that book before the movie sense for everyone who goes to visit. So that's that's what I love about it. And I loved it because I, when I set out to learn, I thought this is something I'll never understand, it's too complicated. Whereas really I had all that had happened is that I'd been going out with people who tried to teach me, or people who said, Oh, it's this, and you just turn the dial here, and you know your magnetic declination and your three norths, and I'm like, Oh, it's all too confusing straight away. And realizing that no, this is actually something I can get. This is something I can understand because they were great navigators, but maybe they just weren't great teachers. And there's two very different things there. So, um, so for me, and I love to even just sit down at night with maybe a glass of red wine, maybe not, maybe a glass of kombucha, and a topographic map, and I I will just pour over it and read it. And it actually it throws me back to this amazing memory I had as this I was probably about seven, six or seven, and my uncle had a uh National Geographic subscription, and sometimes they'd have these inserts of maps that they put, there would be this special pull out in the the traditional Nat Geo um magazines. And I remember this is kind of like going full vulnerability here, um, as this kid, I would lie on the floor and I would pull out these map inserts. It could be anywhere in the world, like national parks of the US or um uh you know, deserts of Africa or wherever it was, and I would in my head be having this commentary of telling people, well, I'm gonna start here and then I'm going to, we're gonna walk from here to here, and then we'll go overland, we'll get get on a horse, and then we'll go. And I would have these little dialogues with myself loving maps. And I love I uh where I'm speaking to you now, I actually on the shelf behind me, I have boxes and boxes and crates and crates of maps from all around the world, and I just love maps. And now I get to actually teach people to fall in love with maps as well, with that toposgraphy and with the story of place, and it's just one of the greatest, greatest joys of my life. But anyway, rambling, they're all rambling.
SPEAKER_03:Ah, that's okay. Um, I'm I'm going to insert here a reminder that the book is actually called There's No Ramble in It. It's called How to Navigate. Um, and I I I totally get you. I mean, I I I learned to navigate in Scott Monagin, Scotland, and um and was hiking there, and the whole thing was about bagging Munroes, and it was a very blokey thing to do. You bag the Munroes, you tick them off. How many Munroes have you done? And I thought, I just I just don't want to play this game because it was so macho. And the fact that you could have this incredible walk and not hit the peak, I was was was just uh was a nightmare for them because it was something that you could you could access. Um why not take it? It's there to be taken. Yeah, and it was that sense too that you are I think you're conquering, you are, you know, it's that very uh yeah, putting it out there, masculine thing. I'm gonna conquer it, I'm gonna take the peak, I'm gonna bag the peak, um it's going to be mine and and it's a trophy and stuff. And I I guess I didn't feel about that. It was so I so I'm I'm you're singing to the choir. Um the book how to the the book how to navigate um it rocketed, it just it hit the shelves and it really found a a a people, didn't it? Like and that and that and from that you talk constantly on I think just on the before our interview this morning, you were talking to ABC and um to Radio National about safe walking. Um have you got any tips for us just to condense it down into three things that you when you're going to go out for a a walk? What you would say the three things that you need to do before you head off.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, can I make it four? And I'm gonna make it four, and it's easy because it's an acronym.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, go.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so Trek T-R-E-K. All right. So T is take everything you need. So for that, you can dive into packing lists for day walks, packing lists, or overnight packing lists. I've got um free downloads of those on my website. Um, so T for take everything you know. Oh, that's your obvious your food, your water, your shelter, your snacks, your first day, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So T, take what you need. R, register your intention. Now that's just a fancy way of saying tell someone where you're going, right? Or register your trip. Tell someone you know you're going, where you're going, when you'll be back, and let them know when you do get back. Um, E is emergency communications. So uh we are so lucky these days with incredible increases in technology that a lot of our smartphones are now getting satellite um support, which is great. But you've got to be sure that you're checking wherever you are in the world what services exist for you. So the great thing is that there is a device that you can take anywhere in the world. It's called a PLV, a personal locator beacon. It is one button, one job, and it is I need help right here, right now. And this is a one-off device that you can buy or you can hire and rent them from certain places. And it is like here in here in Australia, it goes to AMSA in Canberra, which is the Australian Maritime Safety Authority, and they will basically send help for you through the local um agency near nearest to where you are. Then there's other devices, there's like two-way things, people have heard of inreaches or Zolios, spot trackers, those kind of things. Um having some way of communicating when you drop out of mobile phone coverage, because these wild places that we visit, they so often just don't have that connection, they don't have that coverage. Um and the K, the last one, is know your route and stick to it. So that comes not only know your route, so know where you're going, have a map, um, but choose the right route in the first place. And a lot of people, they go out and they'll choose a hike or a walk that's not right for them. So they're gonna have, apart from having a horrible time and no one wants that, um, they'll choose something way too hard, or you know, it's the wrong season for it, it's too hot, it's too cold. Um, and the other thing, Trek, I like to be a bit cheeky and throw a little C in there. So it's kind of five, which is check. So check your weather, check your, you know, with its fire dangers, park closures. If you're doing a coastal walk, maybe check the um tides, that kind of thing. So, but that would be my basic trick, T-R-E-K. Um, and it was a campaign that was put together by National Parks in New South Wales and also Khalice Rescue here in the Blue Mountains. Oh, gosh, it's got to be over a decade ago. But if people can just remember that trick, then it's totally gonna set you up for when you think of the statistics of people who've been rescued or that we have to go looking for. If they had had just followed that, life would have been a whole lot different for them. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Um I'm going to run you through our little checklist now. Um, I'm gonna well, it's a quiz actually. I'm gonna give you a copy of the house. Right, so this is about this is and we're now we're actually going walking. We've talked a lot about getting onto the path. Let's talk about the the other aspect of it and you actually in the field. So, yeah, first question best day walk in Australia.
SPEAKER_01:It's a tough one, and I'm gonna stay close to home here on the Blue Mountains of New South Wales. Uh, either the Grand Yeah, either the Grand Canyon walk, which you could do in a few hours, maybe three hours, depending on your fitness and your speed. Beautiful rainforest walk that follows uh a creek all the way through. So in summer it's great because you're in shade. Um beautiful moments and places to stop under little waterfalls. It even takes you through a secret little tunnel at one point. So great for families and kids. Um, and the views at the end are a cracker. There are some stairs, so uh, you know, it's not for everybody. It's probably rated in terms of one being easy, five being hard. I think it's rated about a three. Uh, but it is absolutely stunning, absolutely beautiful. And it's it's actually won awards that walk. So that one would be my number one day walk in Australia.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, now let's go overseas, your number one day walk over anywhere in the world. I'm giving you the world, Narrow. Take it.
SPEAKER_01:Where are you taking us? I'm gonna take you to Colorado. And it's it's a recent one for me. And uh outside the town of Leadville, which is my favorite little town. I it's it feels like if you're an Australian, it feels a little bit like gingerbarn. It's a bit of a ski town in winter, but in summer it is the home of outdoors and um hiking. The Mount Hope, Mount Hope Pass in Colorado, it's a big ascent day. Um, but the views and the especially if you go in autumn or fall, um, the colour of the aspens changing the yellows is astounding. And you're you get up above the tree line, you can get up to about four, it's uh what they call it, uh 13er, so it's above 13,000 feet. Um, and this one I got to four thousand, which is four thousand-ish meters, um, and absolutely just stunning. Absolutely like, huh. I'm I'm not for someone who likes to use words, I suddenly get wordless. I I I my word is unwordable when I'm at something as so beautiful as this. So it was a beautiful bluebird day and it was an absolute cracker. So, yep, best day walk so far, I reckon, internationally, Mount Hope Pass, Colorado.
SPEAKER_03:Fantastic. And let's go into multi-day walks because this is really where you start stretching out and uh and testing your limits and knowing that you don't have to go home at the end of the day, so which is sensational. So, best multi-day walk in Australia.
SPEAKER_01:In Australia, I would say the Grampians Peaks Trail. So down a Victoria coming out of Hall's Gap. Ooh, I get an ooh from Belle Jackson on that one. Um, Grampians Peaks Trail, it is uh graded. Some sections are graded again, five is the hardest. So four and one section is five. It's got split over three sections. It's 164 kilometers. Most people do it over about 12 days, 12 to 13 days. And um, the good news is that post-the fires in the area a couple of years ago, it's now all been reopened. So the whole track is now open, which is excellent. And the first section in the north is um great for people who are newer, and you can actually use state in huts there if you like, um, only through guided companies. Um, and then the middle section is the hardest section. I'm not gonna say that's my favorite. Um, and then the southern section is a bit more classic, sort of eucalyptus forest, classic bushwalking tracks. But it if you imagine like where the Grampians or Gary Wood, as it's called, um, pushes up out of the earth. You're driving or you're you're catching the bus there, and it's flat, flat, flat, flat, and suddenly this huge dragon's back spine comes up out of the um the earth, and you get to walk the full length of this rugged mountainous. And they don't call it the Grampian's Peaks plural track for nothing, because it is, it's it's up and down, up and down the whole time. But it's yeah, definitely it's fabulous. The Parksvik have done a great job in terms of campsites, water tanks, facilities, toilets, all that kind of stuff along there. Um, you book it, and the information that is that comes with your booking is great. Um, but yeah, that would be my top rating Aussie multi-day. Definitely one to train for.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, I've only done the top, the first section, the easy, the easy part. But it was no walk in the park. There was It's not. No, we got we got sleetered on and sunburnt in the same day and um and were scrambling with our packs up one of the um stones, yeah, the stone traverses, thinking we have got to be on the wrong track. I was with Laura Waters, another fantastic walker. Yeah, a really great walker. Buddy. And I know, and a great person to to hike with some really motivational. And um we were like, are we sure we're on the pass? Because we were on it on the first day. We on the first day it opened, we we walked out on that. We were both covering it for different publications, and so I'm really pleased. Um, you know, I'm such a Melbourne. Okay, we've done Victoria, and I'm uh such a Victorian, so I'm very proud to have the Grand Pin Peaks note the plural as your favorite multi-day walk in Australia. Now let's go back overseas, anywhere in the world, your favorite multi-day walk internationally.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like I'm sitting in front of like Google Earth and it's spinning around and I can choose, and where's it going to stop? Uh well, I'm gonna stop it at the Ywash Circuit in Peru. So this is a 125-ish K circuit. It takes about 12 days and it does some high altitude passes. So it's out of the town of Juarez. Uh, and what it does is it circuits around this beautiful area uh around Sula Grand, which, if anyone is a bit of a documentary film fan, they might have seen the film Touching the Void, which is that incredible. Yeah, I heard your intake of breath there. It's that incredible story of Joe Simpson and Simon Yates, the two mountaineers, where um fortunately Simon has to cut his friend's rope. And it's the story that unfolds after that, which is pretty amazing. So incredible part of the world, absolutely beautiful. And um, yeah, you high passes up to around five and a half thousand metres, and definitely, definitely one for the bucket list. That one, I think I had my 40th birthday. It was my 40th present to myself to go and go and walk that. And I did that one with a with a commercial guide. So um, and it was really interesting watching the different guide camps at each of the campsites. You could see, you know, those who were clearly much more experienced and those who weren't, um, and the kind of uh facilities and services they were able to offer their guests and even just levels of um safety as well. So yeah, that was that was amazing. But do you might can I squeeze in another one, just a little short uh Japan trip, which would be a two-day walk um out of Hakuba, uh, Mount Shirouma Dake. So 2,932 metres. But what is beautiful, I mean, like so much of this area is absolutely gorgeous out of Hakuba, is the immense Shiro Sansu Lodge. So this mountain Japanese mountain lodge sleeps up to a thousand people. Now that sounds I know it sounds really intense, but if you Google it and have a look at some of the images of this place, you'll see, oh, it doesn't actually look like it would sleep a thousand people. And we were there right on the close of the winter season. So all the mountains are shutting down for winter. And so there was only our group of, I think there was about six of us from my local bushwalking club, and a four uh local businessmen who were also there. And they were struggling and fighting it quite hard in terms of just their fitness and stuff. And so there was just the two of us groups. They didn't speak any English. We spoke a little bit of Japanese and we had this whole mountain lodge to ourselves. And it's absolutely, yeah, it's astounding. There's this thing in Japan where, like you talked about the Scotland, you can do the Monroes. In Japan, there's something, a lot of there's a big mountain walking culture there. And they have the top 100 peaks. And uh Shiro Amadake is is one of those. And my friend who was with me who'd lived there for I think about 10 years, it was his last one of the hundred to do. So I was with him when he did that. It was absolutely just beautiful. And the great thing is it's it the walk starts and finishes at an onsen. And when is when is an onsen and mountain walking in Japan ever a bad thing? The answer's never. So it's just yeah. So that would be my cheeky little second international multi-day walk.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, what a phenomenal one to include in there. Because also, too, not everybody's got the the the the time to get. I mean, Peru is not just an investment in the you know, however many 10, 12 days of walking, but yeah, but Japan is so accessible. And um we talk about overcrowding a lot, but uh as we mentioned in that, uh the overcrowding in Japan is not in places like Hakuba, it's in T it's in Kyoto and Tokyo and Osaka, you know. So anywhere outside that is just an absolute bonus. But that um that lodge sounds absolutely phenomenal. What a great one to put in there. I'm so glad you've included it. Um now I want to ask you about your next guided tour because you know, people have enjoyed listening to you talking about safety, um, talking about great places to hark around the world. What's your next guided walk?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, I I'm pretty excited this year. Um as I mentioned, I I teach navigation sort of all over the place, but I'm pretty stoked this year to be going somewhere I've never been before. So I'm going to be reading some topographic maps to uh read the book before I see the movie. Heading over to Flinders Island, uh, also known as Waibelena, uh off the northeast tip of Tasmania. And it's going to be with uh Tasmanian Expeditions, TASEX, for six days in April. And not only is it going to be my standard navigation course, but we're going to be staying at this eco camp uh right on the coastline. And so we're going to have, you know, all meals kind of catered for, provided. Uh, there's myself plus a couple of guides from TazX and just a small group. We're going to spend time learning, but then putting it into practice and walking whole sections of Flinders Island together. So um including uh the sort of the icing on the cake, uh Mountstrask. Do you know what my Polish friends are going to shake their head at me? I'm going to sound very strange saying Mountstrasle. Uh right. Uh at the end. So we're going to be looking at places like, you know, uh Mount Kilakrankie, going around some of the coastal walks there. We're going to be doing some off-track walking. So really learning to walk away from what I call the, you know, the invisible walls we sometimes put around us on a track, uh, learning to trust our compass, learning to trust the landforms that we're walking with. And also spending some time diving into the history of the island, which is really quite profound, uh, and learning what we can there as well about the story of Y Valena and what's happened there in the past. So I'm really looking forward to that. So yeah, if anyone wants to come along, um, yeah, for sure. Check out um Taz Expeditions or they're part of World Expeditions site for yeah, uh I think it's 12th to the 17th of April.
SPEAKER_03:It is 12th to the 17th of April. Can I can I make a suggestion on that? Because I actually hiked with them down in Flinders last year on flea design. Put your swimmers in, Caro, because the bays are so beautiful. Um I was actually there, I was there earlier in the year at this at the end of January. And um swimming in the Bass Strait, it is a thing, and you can and it was just it was magical, absolutely magical. So um, because you know, onsons and and swimming, uh on sons and bushwalking. Fantastic, but but you know, the Australian version of a day's bushwalk where it ends at a beach and you can leap in, I think is just the the absolute best. Like that is that is the reward that I need. You know, some people need a slab of cold beer, and that's okay too. Um but jumping into jumping into a body of water, any body of water, a puddle will do me on that one. So um that sounds absolutely super exciting. Uh that brings me to the final question in the interview, which is and it's the one you've been waiting for, the one you've been cracking for, and I love it, and I can't wait to hear it. Tell us about your most bizarre travel experience.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, well, my most bizarre travel experience uh takes me back to 1997. Yes, I'm I'm I'm a woman of a certain age. Um, and unfortunately, it's not so much a happy story at the time, but the learning from all these experiences is, you know, the things that make us who we are. So I was in Brazil, uh, I was up in uh outside uh Bel Horizon, um, and I was there researching and putting together a book at the time. And because I was traveling all through South America and Latin America, I was needing to take anti-malarial tablets. And at the time, uh thankfully we've moved on a bit in our our science and our education and understanding. At the time, the easy option was to take a tablet called Larium. Now it's meph mephliquin. Oh, I see, even your reaction makes me think, yeah, you've you've heard the stories, or maybe you've had one yourself. Yes.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, no, no, too scared after I, yeah. Anyway, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you to tell with your Hain Larion story.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I'll try and make it short. But essentially, Larium, which has an amazing history uh based in the US Army and during Vietnam, there was a uh reportedly uh that the drug trials were actually sped through because they had soldiers dying in the jungles of Vietnam, so they needed to try and get something out there quickly. Uh, Larium's one of its bad side effects is actually uh been known to induce psychosis. And unfortunately, I I did have my own episode and it lasted for um I was well, I was in a place where I spoke no Portuguese, and there was only one person where I was staying who spoke a little bit of English. Um and I I remember starting to feel just a bit sort of physically ill, which was which wasn't the big drama, you know, you're traveling for a year, you expect these things. But I found myself descending into what can only be described as the deepest, darkest depression. And I think when you're traveling or anywhere and you feel physically ill, at least you know there's something you can kind of do about it. But I started this huge depression, depression came upon me and massive anxiety. And I'd never experienced anything like that in my life. And you know, you start to sort of your brain and your mind starts to go into places, you know, seeing headlines of, you know, Australian traveler, um, you know, uh lost in in Brazilian jungle and never seen again kind of thing. But the um it it also got to the point where I couldn't stop crying, like physically heaving and sobbing. And I'm talking for days at a time. So the only time I stopped crying was when I actually slept for a few hours. And I was sure the family who I was staying with just had no idea what was going on with this girl because I couldn't kind of explain it. And I didn't actually know it was the drug at the time. Thankfully, uh, I'd been there about it'd been going on for about three or four days, and this American woman had turned up and we started chatting between the sobs, but I'd I'd managed to pull myself together because I was interviewing her for a story. And for some reason at the end, you know, I turned off the back then, the tape recorder, and she started telling me about her life working in Africa. And I just said, Oh, so what do you do for for malaria if you're actually living somewhere for 10 years or 20 years? She said, Oh, ah, I took something once, it set me nuts. I never never took that again. And I just stopped and I grabbed her around the shoulders and hugged her and I went, Oh my goodness, was it Larium? She said, Yes, oh, it's horrendous stuff, it's terrible stuff. And I'm like, Oh my goodness. And it was like such a relief because I honestly thought that I was seriously ill and I did not know what to do about it and didn't, you know, this is pre-in pre-real internet. I think I I just got a hot mail account to travel, you know, all that kind of stuff. And this woman then proceeded to tell me all of the stories and the history about this anti-malarial drug and how there are cases of um like whole sort of you know group legal cases where people get together and have actually sued the company. And yeah, you can't actually buy it in the States anymore. I think it's still available in Australia, but the the brand name might have changed. But yeah, that's my little uh most bizarre trouble story. But the the I mean the the happy ending is that yes, I found out because this woman had come through the town, what was causing it. It wasn't me, it was the it was the drug. Um, but one of the things is you're not meant to stop taking it suddenly. So I had to keep taking it until I left the area. And then it has a half-life after. So it took about a year or two to get out of the system completely. But um, I guess it's just that buyer beware. Like do your research before you you take anything, especially if you're gonna be putting yourself somewhere remote. You don't want to sort of end up with a most bizarre travel story to tell on the World Awaits podcast.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I don't think you should be so harsh on yourself because it was just the one that everybody took. Oh, it sounds horrific, but also the breakthrough moment is beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:You should have just seen me cried. Oh, even more than I had been for the I'd been crying for four days already. So uh, but yeah, I just literally just collapsed onto this woman and I was just saying thank you, thank you, thank you. Um, it's not me. Um, and it was just it was such a relief. But I mean, there've been cases of people, um, you know, like deaths have even occurred and people uh like long-term paraplegia throwing themselves out windows with this stuff, like horrendous, horrendous.
SPEAKER_03:Anyway, uh yeah, we are so lucky you moved to Tale the Tale and a cautionary tale. Yes. Absolutely. I kind of want to end on a happier note though now. No, I'm happy because we've got so much out of this talk. You know, you've given us some great um uh inspiration for places that we should be hiking next, long and day walks as well. We've got your fabulous book, which is how to navigate. You've got a brilliant hike um teaching navigation coming up on Flinders Island. People can also find, and if they don't want to alone with the book, they can also find you. And they can they still book courses with you if they're around the Blue Mountains? Do you actually take people out um on face-to-face navigation uh tours still?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so pretty much roughly every sort of six weeks, there's a two-day course in the Blue Mountains. Um they are booked January and February, I think, is already booked, fully booked. So uh, but then I do a um I'm actually going back to Grampians, running a navigation retreat, which sounds a bit posh, doesn't it? Uh so a four-day read.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Based in the central section uh there, in that's in September, I think, and then in July up on the scenic rim uh in Queensland. So another four-day retreat there. So try to get around a bit and offer things in different budget sort of frameworks to to try and help people out. So yeah, that's me for next year. Wow.
SPEAKER_03:You I mean, you're really on a mission for safe walking and teaching people how to how to take care of themselves and look up in our in our beautiful country. So thank you so much for joining us on the World of Waits. We're gonna put all of those links in the show notes at the end as well, too. So, Caro, it's been an absolute joy to have this chat with you. Thank you for coming on. Oh, thanks so much, Belle.
SPEAKER_01:It's been so great to share with you.
SPEAKER_00:That was Bushwalking Expert and Navigator Cara O'Rein, talking to Belle. And if you want to read more about Caro's work, you can visit her at lotofreshair.com and also listen to her podcast Rescued or jump onto the Tasmania Expeditions website to find out more about the walk she's leading on Flinders Island at Tasmanian Expeditions.com.au. If you'd like to help support our production costs, you can buy us a coffee at coffee.com slash the world awaits. That's ko-fi.com slash the world awaits, so we can continue to bring you inspirational travel interviews with the world's best.
SPEAKER_03:Our trip this week is discovering what's new in Victoria for 2026. So this tip came out of a story I wrote recently for the Financial Review, and it is great timing because Melbourne in particular is at its best in January, I think. What do you think, Kirsty?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, of course. We do love Melbourne this time of year. I mean, the city has just so much energy. The Christmas windows are still up at Maya, and the Australian Open, of course, comes to town, which we've been talking about. Um, and um, and it's now a three-week event, so it's just dominated the city, and everyone's got activations everywhere you go, all of the pubs and the bars around. Um, there are little tennis courts and pickleball courts popping up everywhere. Um, and we are both at the tennis as guests of major sponsor Emirates next week. And um, Belle also attended with Mariette Bon Boy. Um, and yeah, so yeah, lots of energy in Melbourne at the moment.
SPEAKER_03:But outside the Oz Open, there are a race of new openings, including the Hannah Street Hotel in Southbank, which I got the scoop on as the first journalist to stay. Um, I also did a walkthrough before it was even opened with uh David Flack, who is the interior designer, who is hotter than hot at the moment. Um, he basically sizzles. He's so hot in the interior design world. So the hotel um is part of the TFE Hotels group, which includes the Adenas and Vibe and Oaks. It is a five-star hotel. The rooms are just beautiful and seriously quirky, like literally one of the rooms we stayed at. Um, you walk in, and around as you walk into the bedroom, then there's a little curve and there's this enclave with a bath in it set with this black and white mosaic task. It's just, it's really, really fascinating. I cannot rave about the restaurant coupette enough. It is, it's on the street corner, so they're aiming to make it like a neighborhood restaurant. And I I do love the idea of a neighborhood restaurant. Um, one of the top dishes is the steak fruit, which of course is just a fancy way of saying steak with chips, but done very, very well with all of the delicious sauces. And and I actually think that steak frit is a key food trend in the city at the moment. So if you look at other new openers, um, and here I'm gonna name Seven Alfred, which is a restaurant by the Rock Hall group, in an absolutely beautiful old building off Cullen Street, which opened in October, has only one dish on the menu, which is steak free. Do not go there if you're vegetarian because there is no vegetarian backup on it. Um, so they're just pairing that with really good wine. And then I'm gonna add on to that one, the New Zealand menswear group, Rod and Gun, they opened their global flagship, which includes a restaurant, a lounge, and and a subterranean wine bar off Little Cullen Street. It's all got this gorgeous cluby air. And if you want to get an idea for the 1920s interior design architecture, if you've ever been into the new Mecca shop on Burke Street Mole Kirstie? No, maybe not. Maybe not because you don't have a 14-year-old as well, a 14-year-old girl. So it's the same, it's the same building, it's the same construction. It was the old Coles cafeteria and uh I think the DVD DJ's menswear. So it's this beautiful architecture, beautiful dining room. They are some of the great openings in the city. Yeah, amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and outside of the city on the Ballerine Peninsula, Lawn Retreat has a new outdoor Nordic contrast therapy, and that think hot, cold, hot, cold with a finished sauna, Swedish soap bucket and plunge tubs in Bell. We actually stayed there, didn't we, Belle? Um, was that a year ago? Um, and gosh, it's such a gorgeous property. Uh, you know, there there's like a hundred hectares out there to explore and all these walking trails, and it's all tucked away down a little quite suburban street in Port Lawnsdale. So when you drive past, if you blink, you could probably miss it. But um, such a special spot. It feels like you're sort of staying in someone's luxury house. Um, and if you love oysters, the Port Arlington Muscle Tour is selling its Angazi oysters, which are endemic to southern Australia later this year at Jenkins and Sons Fishmonga in Port Arlington. Um, and that's a rare opportunity to get those oysters because normally you have to either uh take one of the tours or book a seat at some ridiculously expensive restaurant, but very m well worth restaurant like Antica.
SPEAKER_03:And Bray, yeah, absolutely amazing. I think it's really it's fascinating because they've rejuvenated these oysters, like this this breed of oyster that comes from Port Phillip Bay. So it's it's kind of what people would have lived on, you know, thousands of years ago. And here it is back again. Um, so keep going down uh past the ballerine, go down to just outside Port Ferry. Here, Basalt Wands has opened two tiny vineyard villas in between its vines, and they are moody and maximalist. So I'm tipping they are a hot stay in a cold winter. Um, if you haven't been down to Basalt, do yourself a favor, as Molly Melderham would say, and get down there. Basalt's owner, Shane Clancy, has long had a fantastic restaurant there, and he is such a great host. And the wines are beautiful. He does do some really um delicious light Italian and Spanish varietales like Temponillo. Um and you can get there along the Great Ocean Road. If you're doing it that way, the essential stop is the new$8 million blowhole at Lockard Gorge. Um, if you are in the mood for more striking public architecture, or you could make it a long weekend and travel the Port Ferry via the inland Hamilton Highway and drop into the Revant Bluestone Elephant Bridge Hotel in Darlington on the way. Both of these have got really long, strong old Irish histories as well. Because Port Ferry, I don't know if you know this, Kirsty, for a period was actually called Belfast because there were so many ships it um coming from Ireland and dropping people uh to you know to to populate Australia. It's just it's just an amazing history. Lots of potatoes, lots of bluestone um buildings and stuff, and it's a really gorgeous part of the world. And then back in the city, our favourite chef, uh Andrew McConnell, who is of course behind Gimlet and Supernormal, is opening a new French-Spanish restaurant basque. And to keep an eye out for a private wine club 67 Pole Mall from the Power Duo that opened society restaurant in the city.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and if you want to read Bow's full story about the best restaurants, hotels, and happenings coming to Victoria, which is in the financial review, you can jump onto AFR.com and we will also put a link in the show notes. Next week, we're heading to the French Camino with U-Track's hiking guide Jacqueline Beagley, who chats to me about why you should look to France for your next hike. And we talk about her holiday house in Italy with some tips for those who want to follow in her footsteps and buy property abroad.
SPEAKER_03:And we'd love it if you followed us on socials. You'll find us at the World Awaits podcast on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And feel free to drop us a line at hello at the worldawaits.au. If you are enjoying this episode, please leave us a rating or a review. You can even buy us a coffee.
SPEAKER_02:That's a wrap for the World of Weights this week. Click to subscribe anywhere you listen to your favourite pods. Thanks for listening. See you next week.
