REAL TALK! with Doc and Marlon
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REAL TALK! with Doc and Marlon
AFC North Showdown: Analyzing Steelers, Ravens, Browns, and Bengals with Jai Shields
We remember Malcolm Jamal Warner and honor Adam Shine's father in a heartfelt opening discussion about the impact of father-son relationships and how these special bonds affect us throughout our lives.
• Philip Rivers retiring as a Charger sparks debate about his Hall of Fame credentials
• Cincinnati Bengals analysis reveals concerns about offensive line protection despite securing Tee Higgins and Ja'Marr Chase
• Cleveland Browns quarterback situation suggests Joe Flacco will start while rookie Shedeur Sanders develops
• Pittsburgh Steelers' acquisition of Aaron Rodgers questioned due to his age and team's offensive line issues
• Baltimore Ravens emerge as division favorites, though coaching decisions in playoffs remain concerning
• Top quarterback rankings reveal diverse perspectives on the NFL's elite signal callers
• WNBA discussion touches on player compensation and the league's media coverage challenges
Join us next week as we break down the NFC West with a special surprise to start the show!
And welcome everybody to another episode of Real Talk. Doc, you doing all right today.
Speaker 2:Yes, I am One day closer to the season. We're going to go over to AFC North with our special guest again. Do the intro, brother.
Speaker 1:Yeah man, we have Jai in Baltimore joins us again. So this is I think this is the time. I think he's doing okay, we're not, we're going to try to stay away from talking some Orioles, but I think he's doing all right, getting leading into the preseason here in a couple weeks. So, jai, how you doing today, man.
Speaker 3:I'm doing good. Marlon and Doc, always good to be on. Thanks for having me back. Yes, stay away from that nameless baseball team in my hometown. We'll stay away from them. And because I stayed away from them and I have not watched essentially since Saturday for the All-Star break I've stayed away because I can't take them anymore. So I've been in a fairly decent mood. I was bummed out earlier this afternoon when I learned about the passing of the great Malcolm Jamal Warner, who died early today at the age of 54. Obviously, theo Huxtable from the Cosby Show. That show raised me like every Nickelodeon and cartoon show you can find that was on the air in the 2000s to early 2010s. The Cosby show was just as much of a entertainment linchpin for me growing up, and still is, even as I'm in my 20s now. So that sucked, that stunk today, but outside of that, I'm in my 20s now. Yeah, so that sucked, that stunk today, but outside of that, I'm doing okay.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up, man, because I was a big fan of his too, and several roles that he played Just goes to show, gentlemen, that life is short man. You got to take precautions in anything you do, and yeah, good point on that, john, so let's roll right into it.
Speaker 1:Marlon, let's go All right. And then, of course, before we get started, of course, Adam's dad passed away about a week ago.
Speaker 1:So he is one of the main reasons why most of us talk and a lot of them whether it's Morning man or Adam's show or Mad Dog Unleashed we all are connected by these guys. I know for a fact that if I wasn't listening to that radio show, I wouldn't have found Adam. I wouldn't have found you guys. It's tough. We're all a family. When one hurts, we all hurt. We're all thinking about him and his family. Ja, I'll give you a couple words on that, and you, Doc, and then we'll go ahead and get rolling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I always his show, adam's show, is on. The older I get, the less amount of time I've had to listen to his show, more than I would like. But when I do listen, adam all know we all love him. Uh, I always recall when he would free if I'm not mistaken, a frequent segment on his uh Rise and Shine podcast would be like the the uh the Jack Shine text message of the show, whatever the case might be, and always knew and was, like aware that his dad was an avid listener of the show and an avid fan of his. And you guys know this, you guys being men yourself that there's something special, something unique about having your dad be one of your biggest fans in anything that you do, whether it's playing sports or if you're a musician or you work no, not work, but if you dabble in the arts growing up as a kid, and especially if that's something that you want to do as like a career choice.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they're as passionate about it as you are. I mean, there's no greater feeling that a kid could have and I could tell by the tone of Adam's voice when he was giving his personal anecdotes and I know on the inside he still obviously was hurting, but I could tell like the sense what was helping him through this tough process is, like the amount of pride you could hear in his voice Because as a son that means something. I remember in middle school when I was a preteen and a teenager, when I secure in who I was in my job, my responsibility out there on the field, simply because I would look over and I would see my dad in attendance.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And I can imagine part of Adam's bravado and how he carries himself as an individual, and also how he carries himself and how he views himself when he's on the radio.
Speaker 3:I haven't talked to him about this but I guarantee if I were to have a conversation with him about this tomorrow, I guarantee he'd be like John.
Speaker 3:You know what you touched on something, because you can tell the difference in how a son carries himself and how they act and how they, and just the level of extra confidence that it gives them specifically in their given field of expertise, because they have their parents, and specifically their father, in their corner rooting for them, cheering them on and doing everything and anything they can to provide as much support as humanly possible.
Speaker 3:So I I for one I'm grateful that Adam had that experience and it was able to share that experience with his dad through the majority of his relatively still young career. You know, I my heart breaks for him, just the fact that he doesn't have his dad there to talk to and to text back and forth with anymore. My heart breaks for him, breaks for his kids having their grandfather that's gone, his wife and his brother. It's just I mean fellas. I was on the couch the other day when he posted that tribute post on his Instagram page and to see that photo of him, his dad and Theo just standing together three generations of Scheinmen standing together with just beaming smiles on their face.
Speaker 3:from either, I gotta be honest with you guys and I am not an emotional, emotional person like that I I got I got teary-eyed when I looked at that and I hope, and I hope for adam's sake that's a photo that he never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever ever loses for the rest of his natural born days, because that because, that's what.
Speaker 3:That's what fatherhood, that's what being a son, that's what being a father, that's what being a man is all about. You look at that photo right there. That's what it's about you being a son to your dad, you being a father to your son. It's just, that's just. That's the essence of life, right there in a nutshell. I just hope that God stays with him and heals, mends the heart of him and his family and his brother, because it's you know, I'm not fearful of a lot of things, but I am scared shitless of that inevitable day when I wake up in the morning and my parents aren't waking up or don't live to see the end of the day to lay their head down at night with me. It's just, it's something about life that's inevitable. That's things that sucks. We can't avoid it. But it's yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I echo what John said. A father's relationship with his kids and grandkids is special. I was blessed to have my dad for the majority of my life. He went to my wedding, the birth of my daughter, you know, I mean back in the 70s and the mid-70s. He used to go to my track meets and I was the slowest one and he still cheered me on. So yeah, I echo John's sentiments a lot and rest in peace, mr Jack Shine.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely All right, so let's go get right into it. Phillip Rivers announced that he is going to retire a Charger, which is a good thing. I know he was waiting around for a little bit, maybe to have that one last run and maybe hop on a good team. But you know the majority of his career, of course, with San Diego I hate to say LA, but a part of that was LA and we know what he is and the fighter. And playing with a torn ACL in the AFC Championship game I mean, he's a loudmouth, get in your face, never cuss a million kids. He was just a very interesting guy bow tie and all. It hits home for me, of course, just because that's my, when I think of TO, when I think of him just sitting there crying that's my quarterback.
Speaker 1:Don't talk about my quarterback and all that First ballot Hall of Famer. I'm getting ready to ask you guys this. I would say yes, uh in. In my opinion, there's a lot of uh. We, we did have some talent around us. There were some other quarterbacks that were drafted somewhat similar to when he was drafted around that oh three, oh four, oh five, uh season. That had a little bit better talent, a lot better, better coaches? Definitely so. Uh uh, doc, I'll go ahead and start with you Thoughts on Rivers retiring and his first ballot Hall of Famer.
Speaker 2:Classy individual. The numbers speak for themselves relative to his time at San Diego, I think of Rivers to Gates and Rivers to Tomlinson, dishon to Rock, and it's one of those things where arguably he is a first ballot Hall of Famer. You would like to have more of some of the black type by his name, like an MVP or Super Bowl appearance, but there were some great Chargé teams with him at the helm the 14-2 team under Schottenheimer and several others. So it's one of those things that he was a threat. You had the game plan for Rivers. He had a funky throwing motion, but you knew that when he came into the 0-4 draft with Roethlisberger and Eli Manning and the other ones. So it's one of those things where, yeah, I gave you that. You know, and I like to mess with you, if you put Rivers in, you better put Matt Ryan in. But when Rivers is top six in all passing yards and touchdowns and whenever you're within the top ten, seven and eight, yeah, you deserve to be in the HOF, you know. So props to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Jai, Y'all might kick me out for this and give me a dial tone, but Phillip Rivers, in my estimation, is not a first ballot Hall of Famer. I don't even think he's a Hall of Famer in general Not enough black type by his name. He never led the league in any major passing categories during his career and he did play a long time His postseason. I understand he could be a Hall of Fame quarterback and not have the Super Bowl rings, but his postseason record is less than ideal. I never looked at him as a quarterback and felt that I was watching a Hall of Famer. The sticking image of him as the NFL quarterback will be when he had an opportunity to drive the Colts down the field in the postseason against the Bills in the COVID year and he failed to do so and no one is ever going to, and that was a now. Granted, that defense did shut down Lamar Jackson the next week but there is an asterisk because Lamar Jackson played half that game, exited out of that game with a concussion and that defense got absolutely ripped to shreds by Mahomes the week after that.
Speaker 3:I look at Phillip Rivers as the whole of very good. I think he's a better. I think you know you would take him over the likes of Andy Dalton. You would take him over the likes of Derek Carr. You would take him over the likes of Derek Carr. You would take him over the likes of, say, I think, of Jimmy Garoppolo. Historically, in terms of the large body of work, all of the very good, not a Hall of Famer. I don't think he's first ballot, I don't think he's second ballot, third ballot, anything. I just think he's a very good quarterback that has to take into account of his missteps and his shortcomings throughout his career with the San Diego Chargers. Yes, he had bad defenses. Yes, he didn't exactly have great coaching 100% of the time, but the fact of the matter of it is, I'm sorry he has to take some accountability at some point of his career and not everybody deserves to be in Canton, Ohio, and that's okay, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 2:That's why we have dialogue. Good job on that, brother.
Speaker 1:We can go back and forth on that all day, Jai, but the reason why we're here, we're going to break down some AFC North. I know you have a lot to say about your team, so we'll go and get that knocked out first and then we'll go ahead and break down the other team. So if you guys weren't here, if you guys didn't listen, last week we did break down the AFC West. We had Chad in California and Raider Eston. We broke down all the AFC West teams. Now we are going to the AFC North. So going on to your Bengals, we know that you guys always have a slow start, but before we get to that, just your thoughts on the offseason in general. The draft picks you guys got, of course, the big signings on your receivers. Just real quick thoughts on your offseason for the Cincinnati Bengals. Thoughts on your offseason for the Cincinnati Bengals.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm glad that T Higgins and Jamar Chase are signed. It feels like now. When I was thinking about this at work late last week, just randomly, I was thinking to myself you know what? Now, kind of you know what, does it matter? Okay, fine, t and Jamar are still here, whatever.
Speaker 3:But I was thinking to myself, looking at it from a glass half full mentality. There is going to be a moment where T and or Jamar have a great game or make a great play and in between plays I'm going to think to myself saying, damn, we actually paid these guys. They're going to be under contract and they're going to stay here for a little while Hearing that first home game in week two, hearing the Cincinnati Bengals crowd go tee when it gets introduced and when he makes a big-time catch. It's going to hit me then. But you guys know, I've had this conversation, I've had this opinion for a while, for the longest time. They should have given those guys brand new contracts, literally the off season after we went to the Super Bowl in 2021. You would have I mean, it would have been unprecedented but you paid Jamar Chase after his rookie year and I would have paid T Higgins after that sensational Super Bowl he had after his second season in the NFL. I would have gotten ahead of the curve then, especially now, three, four years later. It would have came at a massive discount, comparatively speaking.
Speaker 3:But the Bengals still, you know they got holes. I don't understand why, if I'm not mistaken, justin Simmons is still a free agent. I don't know why the Bengals haven't decided to at least give him a camp invite to have him work his way to earn one of the starting safety jobs. That is quite puzzling. I don't understand why the Bengals feel the need to basically work with what they have in-house in terms of their guards that one baffles my mind and essentially hoping that their new offensive line coach is a miracle worker.
Speaker 3:Because it's ironic, because I was watching the quarterback series on Netflix the other night and I got towards the final episode in the game we played against Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh on January the 4th that's Saturday night, and they replayed when Burrow got hit by Cam Hayward and the other Steelers defender steps in my mind. He went headfirst into the grass and he hurt his neck and it was on the ground lying there for a minute and a half two minutes and I was just shaking in my head getting pissed off all over again because I was like, damn, like this offensive line still is not week one ready and we're about to go into training camp. So we got and if the safety and I think those are the two biggest glaring holes on this football team heading into camp safety and the interior offensive line, without a shadow of a doubt, and also you know again, always reactive, never proactive.
Speaker 3:And we're still kicking a can and farting around with Trey Hendrickson, with him still not being under a new contract, which has me annoyed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I mean the Bengals they should have done more throughout the offseason.
Speaker 3:Now it's not over yet, we've still got about seven, six weeks until week one, but still this roster should be in better, should still be in a better situation going into training camp right now than where it stands as of now. Yeah, I mean, when Super Bowls how your season dictates in December and January is predetermined by how your spring and summer goes in the offseason. And the Philadelphia Eagles case in point, with the Barkley trade and how well they've drafted they realize that obviously the games are played and the games are won and the championships are won on the field, but in terms of putting the best roster 1 through 53 out there compared to your other 31 competitors, that job and that title, if you will, is won during the offseason. You can't put together the best roster, the best team in football midseason. You've got to do whatever you can during the offseason, before the season starts, to make sure that once it comes time for the games to be played, you are head and shoulders the best 53-man unit out there in the National Football League.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah that's fair man. And from the outside looking in, if you don't mind me commenting on this, it bothers me that I'm a draft geek, jai, and it bothers me that Shemar Stewart walked out of OTAs and minicamp and went back on campus to Texas A&M and practicing with them, going into the draft allegedly next year. You know you mentioned the Trey Hennigson thing. That bothers me too. Back-to-back 17, 17 and a half sacks, even though he's 31,. He's a playmaker.
Speaker 2:You know the Brown family has been notorious and you know this and I'm glad you signed your guys. You know, on offense and I love Joe Barrow. In fact I got your Bengals finished in 10 and 6, second in the division by Baltimore. That's another topic we'll do later. But the fact that Shamar Stewart walked out of camp a first-round pick and away from the facility and went back to Texas A&M and it's documented that he's practicing with the Aggies and he's talking about it he probably already is saying that at the fact that he's going to draft next year, that's troubling because that's locker room issues and the Trey Henderson thing doesn't help. So that's troubling because that's locker room issues and that's that the trey henderson thing doesn't help. So it looks like you're going to be in a lot of shootouts. That's just me on the outside looking in, you know yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:and and if last season taught us anything, you're not going to get to the playoffs, you're not going to win the super bowl. Uh, engaging in a bunch of shootouts every now and again, you know out 17 games, three or four, maybe he got a score no less than 31 points to win, but every single game, unless you're playing a team like I mean. Literally the only game that we played this season where I knew, going in that our offense didn't essentially have to put up 30-something points, was the game against the Giants. That was the one game we went into where I said, okay, 14, 17 points shouldn't be enough, but that was the only outlier. All the other games Denver, the Ravens, the games against Kansas City, the Commanders, philadelphia all those games like the offense needs to show up, but we got no chance and we can't win a Super Bowl with that game plan. Last season taught us.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Well, marlon, I'm sure I think you'll agree, marlon, before you continue on that the AFC North, arguably other than AFC West, is the best in football. Just given the fact that the historicFC North, arguably other than the AFC West, is the best in football, just given the fact that the historic franchises you know, with the exception of Cleveland, and even Cleveland has a great defense and uh, but it goes noted. Man, it's intriguing in and of itself, with Aaron Rodgers, joe Burrell and Lamar Jackson right there in the division on the AFC North. Go ahead, marlon, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, uh, just speaking over into the division on the AFC North Go ahead, marlon, yeah, yeah. And then just speaking over with the quarterbacks, as we look at the Browns, we know obviously they've had their struggles. They've had a lot of ups and downs, especially from the quarterback position Defense, as you said. They've, for the most part, been solid. I believe it was a year or two ago they brought Flacco in there and led them to the playoffs, so um, so yeah, they've been through a lot and most of it isn't hasn't been great. But looking at this, uh, this quarterback class I know we we talk about Shador, we Deshaun's most likely going to be out, but you do have Flacco. You have some other guys too as well. So, doc, I'll start with you on this one who's going to be starting this year in the quarterback position for the Browns and who do you think is going to be ending the season as a starting quarterback for the Browns?
Speaker 2:I think Joe Flacco is going to start the season. To be fair, I think he's a veteran, a guy that gives him a decent chance to compete. I think it's a little bit too early to ask for Daryl Sanders or Dylan Gabriel to do that and I have no confidence whatsoever with Pickett, the kid from Pitt, in his third year. You know the Steelers gave up on him. He might get cut. But if he asks Shadur Sanders or Dylan Gabriel to start the season, you're in a world of hurt. So Flacco should do that and take it from there.
Speaker 2:I'm hearing some good things out of Shadur and his work ethic and the things that he's doing in the community to warm over teammates and management and the city relative to what he did in college. With the in-house money that he does have, you know he's in a unique position where he doesn't have to struggle as under a rookie contract. So he's donated some money to some needy things in Cleveland. Now Does that translate later on to compete for the job and later in the year? I think he can If Flacco's an injury away from in his season in week two or three because he is 44 or something like that some ridiculous number.
Speaker 2:He came in the same draft as Matt Ryan in 08. That's sick in and of itself but I think Shadur to answer your question is going to end up being the starter. Dylan Gabriel is 5'10" and that's being generous. That's not NFL height. He might have a talent, an arm talent, but he's still a rookie and with Shadur accomplished getting beat up and still putting up numbers I expect him wholeheartedly. Not because I'm a Deion Sanders or Coach Brian fan. I expect him to end the season as starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns. Yeah, to end it short.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would have to concur. Okay, I would have to concur. I just think that the problem with Cleveland is that they got such an uphill battle to climb in terms of their roster inefficiencies compared to everybody else in the AFC. Things could get so dire so fast. For Cleveland it's almost as if they would be better off than just not letting Shador see the field at all. Not letting Shador see the field at all just so he's not out there throwing raw meat to a pack of wolves and allows himself to get hurt or puts together some horrific games, and it kills his confidence. Because it's funny I'm thinking about because Kevin Stefanski, for all we know, could be out of a job maybe by the middle of this season, if not after this upcoming season. And things are so bad in Cleveland where it's almost like if they fired Kevin Stefanski they'd be doing him a favor at this point. Things are so bad, but no way, no, how should he be starting in that?
Speaker 3:I mean in that division, with those defenses with mine, not with Sanding, but in terms of like the heart, at least Pittsburgh's defense may be middle of the pack, but those are some grown-ass men that they got on the defensive side of the football TJ Watt, cam Hayward none of them themselves. I mean, it's no joke. So why subject a rookie to that punishment when they got their entire career in front of them playing for a football team? That's not good. That's not a playoff contender, let alone a Super Bowl contender.
Speaker 3:It's just let them sit back. Let them learn from Flacco. Keep them out of harm's way. Unlearn from Flacco. Keep him out of harm's way. And then come this time, ahead of the 2026 season, we can have a conversation on Sedora Sanders holding a zone as the NFL starting quarterback. But it would be organizational malpractice to throw him into deep end of the pool and say, have at it, when he's on one of the worst rosters in all the National Football League and an impossible division to win in a conference. That's going to be Armageddon. It's just dumb all the way around, no matter how you slice the pie in trying to talk yourself into Shador Sanders trying to be the starting quarterback at any point in time this season, not just to begin the year.
Speaker 2:That's a good point, john. But I will say this you have to know what you get. You have to know what you have on the roster going into next year. And I say you give him some snaps. I like what Atlanta did with Michael Penning, sort of short sample size. Now he's a starter and we're hoping that we do good relative to that. But here's a starter and we're hoping that we do good relative to that. But here's the thing, josh, you know you got to play him. If he's playing in week 9, 10, 11, at least you can see some sample size and hoping that your fifth-round draft pick comes through. Or Dylan Gabriel, you know, pick it, pick it. I don't think pick is going to make the team so Marlon.
Speaker 3:I'm going to ask you a question.
Speaker 2:The running back room is weak, the wide receiver room is weak, but you still have to play these guys to see what you have. And to me, flacco not. Unless they start off 6-2 with Flacco, then we have a different discussion. But I just don't see that Now you can't win games 13-10 and 10-9. Myles Garrett is a beast. Arguably him, or TJ Watt, is the best edge rusher in the league. And then, oh, they got linebacker talent. I don't know about the back end, but Miles Garrett in and of itself can give you 16, you know a year. So they're going to just defense alone. They'll be in some games in the third quarter and a fourth quarter is a different matter. But, john, I beg to differ. You got to play him to see what you got. You know whether he gets killed or not, you know, and take it from there. Go ahead, marlon.
Speaker 1:All right, and then, before we go ahead and get to the Steelers on the Browns, the win total is four and a half Real quick Jai over or under on that four and a half Under yeah.
Speaker 3:Doc Under.
Speaker 2:I agree with Jai, it's going to be under. It's going to be a bad year. I can see them losing games 7-3 because of their defense against some poorer teams like the Jets or something like that, but they're still going to lose because their offense is. Leggo Chubb was a big thing and he's been injured, but he's totally healthy now allegedly and I don't know who they got so under. To answer your question, it's really bad, yeah all right.
Speaker 1:Now on to the uh, the pittsburgh steelers. They finally got their new shiny old toy. Uh who, finally came finally finally came into the camp a couple weeks ago, so he should be ready to go. He had a lot of time off, uh. So, jai, I'll go ahead and kick it with you on this one. What's your thought process? Just as another team in the division, knowing that you got an old, rusty, soon-to-be 42-year-old Rodgers trotting out there on the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Speaker 3:I am cautiously licking my chops because maybe that could I mean. Aaron Rodgers is shot. I'm sorry he is going to go down as a Hall of Famer Not an immortal, not top five in the history of the sport, but because it's his playoff failure since that 2010 Super Bowl and not just the number of playoff failures, but in the manner in which they've came is so great that he's played himself out of that conversation. But he is going to go down as one of the more talented players this side of Mahomes and Dan Marino to ever play the position. That is an absolute fact. But next sentence he's not that same quarterback anymore. But next sentence he's not that same quarterback anymore. And you're putting a lot of eggs into the basket of a young offensive line that you are just hoping, wishing and praying gels and puts together one of their better seasons of their young NFL careers. Because if there's any growing pains there or any miscommunication and things don't work out the way that they want to, things could get ugly in Pittsburgh too if they're not careful. And I think just putting all your eggs into having Aaron Rodgers for one year, knowing he's going to retire after this year regardless of what happens, it's a very, very, very dangerous game that the Pittsburgh Steelers are playing. They have a wide receiver too. They brought in and traded for Johnnie Smith, who is Arthur Smith's favorite target, which is a major problem considering how good and how productive Pat Frymuth has been the tight end out of Notre Dame. I believe they just gave him a new contract, if I'm not mistaken. So that spells problems, and I don't think under any such circumstances, dk Metcalf and Aaron Rodgers two gentlemen that have strong polarizing personalities I don't see how those two are going to last the whole season without killing each other, either on the sidelines or on the practice field. I just don't see how that happens.
Speaker 3:And DK Metcalf, as talented as he is, he's a very up-and-down wide receiver. Some days he goes out there and he puts up Jamar Chase, justin Jefferson, aj Brown type numbers one week, and then the next week you can't find him and he's missing for two, three weeks at a time, and then out of nowhere he gets on a two, three week cater where he's the best wide receiver in a given period of time in all of football. And the Pittsburgh Steelers can ill afford Jekyll and Hyde, inconsistent rollercoaster shenanigans from the guy that they just that they traded for from the Seattle Seahawks. So I don't think the Pittsburgh Steelers would be very good at all. I think they will finish in third place by default. I think their ceiling is 10 wins, 10 and 7.
Speaker 3:I think their floor is 5 and 12, because that defense for as many big names that is on it, for the greatness of TJ Watt, for the greatness of Cameron Hayward it's a defense when you put them against superior competition, against teams that they're going to have to find a way to beat and shut down to get to a championship Sunday, let alone a Super Bowl they leave a lot to be desired against the better offenses in the National Football League.
Speaker 3:I mean, my Bengals put up 30-something points against them when they played them Thanksgiving weekend in early December last season. They couldn't stop Jamar Chase for a quarter and it turned out to be the difference maker in the second game in week 18 back in January. You know the Eagles destroyed them, the Ravens destroyed them twice, kansas City destroyed them Christmas Day and we've all seen how pedestrian and how very vanilla and average the Kansas City Chiefs offense could be and was last season and it was like they were in their 2020-2021 bag that was running up and down the field. So much on them. I got to see that defense hold its own against superior competition.
Speaker 3:Not name the Baltimore Ravens because yes they have their moments where they shut down the Ravens, but it's a rivalry game. They know Lamar better than anybody in the National Football League In the AFC North. It's almost like you throw the records out. I've got to see them step up against a great quarterback and a great dynamic offense outside of their division. Yeah, for me to take them seriously, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you, marlon and Jay, you're throwing good points there. You're accurate on that. It all begins with the offensive line. This is the Steelers man. These are the Pittsburgh Steelers, arguably one of the top three fan bases in the entire sport. Much like the Lakers, you expect more, but there's nothing there.
Speaker 2:The Steelers, the offensive line that John brought up eloquently, is in shambles. You got Robert Jones in his third year at right tackle, but in Georgia he's really a left. And then you got the rookie from Oregon State. He missed the entire season last year Faralaga, whatever his name is, he's going to play left, and this is people that used to run block. Yeah, najee Harris is gone. So now you got a pass block to a guy that's never been mobile to begin with, and now he's 42.
Speaker 2:So this is a problem here, and it's a strong locker room. Tomlin's not going to lose control of the team. You got TJ Watt, jaya Marlin and Cameron Hayward, but you lost Mika Fitzpatrick to safety, and that's a killer. Now he might have had a subpar year, but this guy's a playmaker. He's in Miami now and that's another topic for another day. But Cameron Hayward's on his last night. They got a bunch of names. Man, that's it. Teach you how to give you 12, 14 sacks. At his age Got a big contract. God bless him. But the running game for the Steelers is going to be something to behold. You know I'm not privy to who they got. You know not Harris, yeah.
Speaker 2:Warren, yeah, yeah, warren, 180 pounds speed, but can he last 70 games as the guy? And I think he got another catch from it via the draft. But we're talking about Aaron Rodgers here. John, you watch Aaron Rodgers with the Jets. There were plays when receivers were open and his fundamental work was gone and then he overthrew, underthrew through some bad. That's why him and Garrettrett wilson got into it. You can't just rely on arms talent and, given that this is a one year deal, where's his heart at? You know, he doesn't need the money, the love of the game. That's why I'm one year, you know. And how does people in that locker room feel about just having one year for a guy? That's just a name now, you know so um.
Speaker 2:So just on general principle, I would like for them to win eight games. I don't know what the win total is in Vegas Eight and a half, but you got to go with eight.
Speaker 2:You got to go with eight and I got a lot of Steeler buddies out here on the West Coast, jai, but 42 is 42. And this is Steeler Nation, man, you know I will put them as the number one fan base. But then you got the Cowboys and the Raiders and all that, but that's another topic. I just see eight wins with that division. Who you had to play twice in the division? You know you're asking a lot and Aaron Rodgers, and he knows this is last year and he's always selfish. So eight wins. There you go, marlon, right there. Okay, good for you, marlon.
Speaker 1:Jai over and under eight and a half.
Speaker 3:What do?
Speaker 1:you got.
Speaker 3:Under Okay Seven and ten.
Speaker 1:Ooh, yeah, all right, seven and ten.
Speaker 2:Now it's the NFL and we've both seen shocking things happen. Maybe a special teams return late or interception, just give them one and you steal that eight. You know just being generous, you know. So there you go.
Speaker 1:Arguably the most criticized team, except for for Jai's Bengals whenever they start off 0-2, 0-3 when the season starts. But the most criticized team more specifically, you know, lamar. Can Lamar get over the hump? He can't win these big playoff games, all that. So, looking at this team, is this the year? I mean? I highly doubt we're going to sit there and say that the Ravens most likely won't make the playoffs. It is the NFL, but they are the team that most likely will make the playoffs as a division winner or wildcard. But looking at them making the playoffs, is this going to be the year Lamar can get over the hump? Doc, I'll start with you, of course. You know we have the Bills, we have the Chiefs, the Bengals maybe All those teams will be there. Is this the year the Texans? Is this the year that Lamar gets over the hump and can at least make it have a deep playoff run?
Speaker 2:I think it is. I think it is man. He's running out of time, much as Josh Allen's getting criticized. At least Josh Allen shows up in the postseason in a big spot. Lamar's hurt Now remember Jack, this is a guy, lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2:I think he's the best quarterback in the NFL. A career-high 41 TD passes, had over 5,000 yards of total offense for his criticals 5,000, now, you know and 950 yards rushing and over 4,000 yards passed, 41 TDs and only four INTs. And that gets lost. For some reason. You only have four INTs the entire year. Now you say, well, there's the big horse back there in Derrick Henry, but you still have to play quarterback and he did that very well last year, not taking anything away from Josh Allen's MVP year. But when you have over 5,000 yards of total offense, you have four INTs plus 41 TDs. You're the best quarterback in the league. I wouldn't cry if you told me Josh Allen is the best quarterback in football. I would not cry. But I'll debate you with that.
Speaker 2:And I think this is the year with the draft class they have, with Hamilton at free safety. And then you got the kid from Georgia, malachi Starks, who is going to be in the running for defensive rookie of the year. Mark my words, john, watch this kid. At Georgia he was a day one starter. He's a true freshman. For Kirby Smart, team captain, that back end is going to be a bitch, you know.
Speaker 2:But you talk about Roquan Smith and some of the defensive linemen that they have. They're a power team. They beat you up so they needed some speed on the back end because they got outplayed and outrushed last year, you know, in the playoffs at home. So it's one of those things where I think this is a team that can win 13 games, 14 games, but the big horse the day the season in it, a week later, he was running hills. Derrick Henry. Now you say he's not going to run for 1,900 yards, he's not going to live with that. Just give the team 1,500 yards and Lamar will take it from there. And I think their best receiver got hurt late, which killed him. I forget his name.
Speaker 3:He late, which killed him.
Speaker 2:I forget his name he sprained his knee in the brown guy. That's right. I think they're going to make a deep run and possibly a Super Bowl run. Marlon, to answer your question, you know your division. Go, john, what you got on Baltimore.
Speaker 3:On paper. In theory, the Ravens should win the Super Bowl. I'm looking at their schedule right now. Now it's no cakewalk. They got the Rams, they got the Lions, they got my team obviously twice. Green Bay won't be easy. They also got Canton In their first four games. They get a break of all time with Cleveland Week 2. But three out of their first four games they got. They get a break of all time with Cleveland week two. But three out of their first four games of the year are against Buffalo, detroit and Kansas City, with the Buffalo and Kansas City game on the road. So it's not an easy schedule by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, if there was any harder, you'd find Washington and the Eagles on here. But it's a challenging schedule. I'll put it to you that way. It's a challenging schedule. Who knows about the Bears? But in theory they should win anywhere from 13 to if they play their best, best ball 15 games this year. In theory they should go to the Super Bowl and give either the Eagles or the Lions a run for their money in theory.
Speaker 3:But I watch this team as a hop, skip and a jump from where I live. I'm around Ravens fans constantly, 24-7. I live five minutes away from the practice facility. I've seen this team Something with this team since they won a championship in 2012,. Something always goes wrong. Either they're subject to bad luck or they get in their own damn way. And when they get in their own damn way, it's either Lamar Jackson choking in the postseason or, even worse than that, john Harbaugh and his coaching. And I have been on John Harbaugh's ass like white on rice on my own podcast on my local radio station. I am fully fellas of the conviction that the.
Speaker 3:Baltimore Ravens and Lamar Jackson will not win a Super Bowl until John Harbaugh gets shown the door. Wow, I'm sorry, this roster cannot get any. It can't get much better than this, unless they literally break transactional rules and somehow acquire AJ Brown, justin Jefferson, get TJ Watt. Their roster can't get much better than it already has.
Speaker 2:Well, john let me quickly interject. They had a critical drop in the postseason with their all-pro tight end, or borderline all-pro tight end. Can we blame Lamar for that? That was a killer man at home.
Speaker 3:No, no, you can't blame and I don't blame Lamar for Mark Andrews' drops. Yes, he shares blame, obviously, because he turned over the football twice. That's right. But that game, that Bills game, doc, that was as much of a team loss if anything. Okay, the three culprits I was set over and out Andrews for the fumble and the drop, lamar for the two turnovers and John Harbaugh once again going for two.
Speaker 3:And then, especially early on in that game, the Ravens were just like you watch them play and it's like guys, are we awake? Are we aware this is the divisional playoffs against the. I mean they had run around all over the place on the offensive and defensive side of the football like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off. It amazes me how sometimes just the lack of focus and the lack of discipline you see from a damn good football team. You see it throughout the valleys of the regular season and too too often you see it in the playoffs. I mean that Bills loss and then the year before that, the championship loss in Kansas City. Yes, those two losses took the cake and if nothing else, if I was calling the shots for the Ravens, john Harbaugh would have been fired after that championship game against Kansas City.
Speaker 2:Kansas City yeah.
Speaker 3:Did Lamar play like crap? Absolutely Did Zay Flowers fumble the ball at the goal line? But that Raven team, literally from the second quarter on, had zero poise, zero discipline, the lack of focus, the lack of execution. The pre-snap and post-snap penalties were atrocious. That, my friends, is coaching 101.
Speaker 3:Because they were every bit as good, if not better, than Kansas City Chiefs going into that game. They had home field advantage. They kept that game close. The defense was pathetic in the first half, buckled down in the second and the Ravens still couldn't do it. I mean, the Kansas City Chiefs, I don't think, scored a touchdown in the second half and they somehow won that game. And that building. Take it from fellas when I tell you that building is an if people talk about Arrowhead, please, for the longest time since I've been alive, since I've been a football fan, that building is an absolute hit to play in. The bigger the game, the harder it is to win in that building. Yeah, they allowed the Ken Snead Chiefs to put up a big fat goose egg in the second half while the Ravens were running around like a bunch of nincompoops on self-destruction mode because John Harbaugh couldn't get a damn grip on his team on self-destruction mode because John Harbaugh couldn't get a damn grip on his team.
Speaker 3:Harbaugh will be the reason why this team won't win the Super Bowl. Mark my words.
Speaker 2:Okay, you're on record.
Speaker 2:And I agree with you, brother, I'm not tripping Marlon. To echo John's point, man, this team is talented two years running and the pressure is on Lamar. This is it. But Derrick Henry is going to retire, probably after the season. You can't ask him to have 1,900 yards again, just under 2,000, like Saquon Barkley. This guy, if he gives you 1,500, and Lamar has a year, like he did last year can he throw 41 TDs past in the regular season. Then show up big in the postseason. It's on Lamar. He's getting paid big money, big contract issues, his own agent, it's on him.
Speaker 2:Now, marlon, to answer your question. As Jai pointed out eloquently, man, this is one that might be the most talented roster in the league. Now Zay Flowers has to stay healthy and Andrews has to stop the drops. But Lamar turned the ball over twice, which I did forget. I was so focused on Andrews. Good job on that, john. He turned the ball over and this is at home now, marlon, at the crib. You know you worked all year, two years running. Chiefs walked in, got you, then last year Buffalo got you. So you think Josh Allen's under pressure. I think Lamar Jackson's under more pressure, because at least that Josh Allen has had some pretty good success and good performances in a big spot in the postseason where Lamar is bit to bit. So there you go, martin, right there okay and I got a lot.
Speaker 1:I got two last questions for you, jai. I'll go ahead and start with you. If there's a lot of big discussion about the, the, the top 10, top five receivers and all that, so just give me your top five receivers. But I'm going to do a little. I want to make it so it's not so easy. So I guess you could say give me your top seven. But I already know that let's say we agree on Mahomes and then let's say Joe Burrow, because I know Joe Burrow is going to be in there for you. So give me three through seven. So give me five after Mahomes and Burrell Quarterbacks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Go ahead, John.
Speaker 3:Allen three, lamar four. Y'all check that. Allen three, hurts four. Now check that. Allen three, hurts four. Lamar five. Jared Goff six.
Speaker 1:Herbert, best for last huh.
Speaker 3:Baker Mayfield seven Wow. Wow, okay, all right, uh, baker Mayfield 7, wow wow, okay alright, I thought wow, jayden Daniels 8, oh, still going okay alright, don't don't let me down, jay, don't let me down.
Speaker 1:Don't let me down. He's right there. Just pick him. He's right there, he's next.
Speaker 3:You hit my head. Wrong, you hit my head. I'm just making sure I'm not forgetting anybody who?
Speaker 1:are you going to pick Aaron Rodgers? Come on.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. What am I at? Am I at seven or am I at eight?
Speaker 1:You're at eight. You got two more. Eight For ten, two more.
Speaker 3:Come on, jack Herbert. Eight, let's go, I'll make you happy, all right.
Speaker 1:And nine I think Herbert was your nine.
Speaker 3:Oh, herbert was my nine. Yeah, ten, ten Wow.
Speaker 2:Why not? Okay, bo Nix the rookie Wow, well, you already know, lamar is my number one quarterback, with Josh Allen too. Mahomes three you know, let's know, let's see, let's see. Okay, well, I'm going to go Stafford. I'm going to go, matthew Stafford. All right, let me see. Call me crazy, but Jake Daniels was so special last year I got to put him right there at five. I'm going to put Jake Daniels right there. I think he's. Andy. Got the big receiver from San Francisco to go with McLaren Debo yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to go with that one there. Burrow, burrow no disrespect If he can start out five and two. He goes up dramatically. The arm talent and the receivers let's start faster. But since he doesn't, I got to put him behind Stafford and Javid. I got Joe Burrow six, let's go. Hurts at seven. Guy's got a bow. He's gone to two bows and it feels like a disrespect when I'm putting him down so low. But I got Jalen Hurts at seven.
Speaker 1:Let me see Come on, doc, don't let me down.
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm going to put your guy there at eight. I'm going to put your guy. He's going to be eight.
Speaker 1:He's no higher than eight. I was going to say it's a little low, but I'll take it because it's coming from you.
Speaker 2:It's a little low. Yeah, let's go eight with him. Got nothing against Justin Herbert. Got to come up in a big spot this year, but I got him at eight. I'm missing somebody big here. I got Lamar, Josh Allen, Mahomes Stafford, Jaden Downs, Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts and Justin Herbert, so you need nine and ten. So let's go this route.
Speaker 1:CJ Stroud, does he make it?
Speaker 2:Actually CJ Stroud's my number 10, but I need nine. Cj Stroud's special Josh. He's going to come back this year Devastating to two injuries to his receivers last year and tanked down the other one. He's too talented. The kid from Ohio State, I think he's 10. Number nine I need help on nine man. Let me see what I got here. I'm glad you brought up CJ Stroud, number nine. I'm going to go with Purdy man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's go with Purdy at nine, say what you want. This guy's been to two bowls. One of them he was hurt, and now he's going to have to. I think he's going to bring it. I think he's going to bring it and we're doing it at and now he's going to have to. I think he's going to bring it and we'll do NFC West next year. But I think Purdy is no lower than he's no higher than 9, but he's. He's bigger than CJ Stroud, because Stroud hasn't even been to a bowl yet. You can argue San Francisco should have won that bowl. So, to repeat Lamar, josh Allen, mahomes, stafford, jaden Daniels, joe Burrow, jalen Hurts, justin Herbert Curdy and then Jay Stroup.
Speaker 1:So now so Jordan Love he's.
Speaker 2:No, no, I need a bigger separate. No, no, he had one good year. Let's hold off that guy. He could be 11 or 12 right now as we speak, but give me a little bit more on that in Green Bay. Okay, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:And then the last question I got, jai, I'll go ahead and start with you, if you can give us like a two-minute answer on this one, your thoughts on the WNBA, and then the Stars and the All-Star game, saying you know, saying pay us what you owe us and all that. So your thoughts real quick on that whole topic.
Speaker 3:I would just like, for once, the WNBA actually be in the headlines about actual basketball for a change. It feels like, more times than not, we're always talking about something off the field, some socio-political socio, you know something? Debate or topic or conversation regarding the WNBA.
Speaker 3:And as somebody that you guys know as a diehard sports fan, it gets exhausting after a while. And listen, I got no problems talking about the non-game-related, off-the-field topics in relationship to sports. I've done it before on my show a bunch of times. I got no problem doing it. I don't shy away from it. I think that's something that we need to embrace in today's day and age of sports fandom and the sports landscape today, don't get me wrong. But when it suffocates the conversation more so than the actual games, that's where I got to tap out and I don't know enough about the WNBA in terms of its revenue and how they share the revenue and how much money they make versus what they lose on a year-on-year-out basis to give a strong opinion pay them because they're saying pay them or they can't afford you because they don't make as much. So I, in terms of that, I'll leave that up to the, to the people within the WNBA community that know, but you know, sometimes you it's very. It gets exhausting sometimes. Yeah, very, very, very exhausting.
Speaker 2:I'm willing to agree with you on some points there with respect to that, john, but my daughter plays basketball. Here's a game where these girls, they have to do something to get money. Some of these girls have to get jobs after the season. Great players. We saw Paige Beckers go off and Aja Wilson in the WNBA All-Star Game Very entertaining games. They'll take some of these guys at Venice Beach and ruck apart to the rack, but they're not making nothing.
Speaker 2:It's one of those things where I don't have a problem with them with t-shirts and doing this down and because they have to bring attention to the nationwide, to the people that don't follow the wnba. I follow because my daughter, if you ask me who's the greatest women basketball player ever, I think it's cheryl miller back in the day, and then you can make a case for that. You know, relative to l, to Lisa Leslie and some others. But it goes noted that these girls have to get jobs and not everybody's going to be talking in the ESPN after the season over and some of these guys players are talented, you know. So whether they go overseas to get jobs or just a regular job in their field of education is just ridiculous. You know I'm making more than some of the stars, you know, and I just drive a big rig for a living of education. Is this ridiculous? I'm making more than some of the stars and I just drive a big rig for a living, and it's one of those things where, even though it's growing in popularity, they should have figured this thing out with the CBA, and maybe they will. I'm not getting tripping, but it's open my eyes, if nothing else. Sometimes you have to have these hard discussions, marlon and Jai, and you have to make people feel uncomfortable in some respects to get progress relative to salary Absolutely there you go.
Speaker 1:Marlon. That's all I got. Jai, we appreciate you for joining man. It's been great to break down the. Oh, I didn't ask you who's the division winner. Are the Bengals winning the division, or or is it, uh, the ravens?
Speaker 3:the I. My answer is subject to change between now and the next six, seven weeks. But um, if the ravens don't win this division, I'll be floored. I'll say the ravens win the division, I. I don't know what to expect from my Bengals. They could very easily go 8-9 or 7-10. As easily they can go 15-2, wipe the floor up with the AFC and win the Super Bowl by 30-something. They're the hardest team to gain a feel of during this time in the calendar year. Who knows with them? Let me see them not start and treat September like an exhibition, and then we'll see which direction this team will go to. We'll be going in this upcoming football season.
Speaker 2:Well, john, before you go real quick, who are your first two games? From the outside looking in, I don't know your schedule, just give me the first two. Cleveland week one Okay, that's a win and I believe week two is against Jacksonville. Okay, there you go Right there I'm on record O'Donnell from the outside, looking in from the NFC South. The Bengals will go 2-0. If you don't, then you got to replace Zach Taylor. Brother, real talk.
Speaker 3:I mean, you guys know me. I've been on this literally for years. I've been on this for years. If I got sick into the feeble September, I don't know what I'm going to do with myself.
Speaker 2:Okay, there you go, brother. We love you and thank you for joining us. Man, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:And for the listeners can you tell everybody where they can listen to you all over, on all of your platforms?
Speaker 3:You can listen. We're now officially back on Spotify. You can listen to the I'm a Telekatellist podcast On Spotify, apple Podcasts and on Amazon Music. Follow me on Twitter At the one called Jai, for all the links and all that other good stuff. Follow me on Instagram as well, at the Jai Shields Alright, and subscribe to my podcast YouTube channel, by the way, too, at Amatella Podcast on YouTube.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it Right on.
Speaker 1:We appreciate you for joining man. And other than that, doc, what are we doing next week?
Speaker 2:NFC West- yeah, we're doing the NFC West next week and I got a little special surprise to start the show off with. So you know we're doing the NFC West next week and I got a little special surprise to start the show off with. So you know we're going to do the NFC. We're going to dive into that another division. That is kind of intriguing in and of itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, All right. Well, appreciate you guys for listening and we will catch you guys next week. Peace, Peace.