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032: what ACOTAR teaches us about self-love & the neanderthal who proved humans are kind

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This week, we explore two surprisingly connected stories: a powerful moment from Sarah J. Maas's A Court of Thorns and Roses (ACOTAR) series and the real-life story of Shanidar 1, a Neanderthal whose survival became one of the earliest known examples of human compassion.

Arns reflects on a difficult season of anxiety, self-doubt, and healing through the lens of ACOTAR's unforgettable Mirror of Ouroboros scene—a moment that asks whether we can truly love ourselves when confronted with every flaw, fear, and shadow we carry.

Meanwhile, Nins shares the remarkable story of Shanidar 1, a disabled Neanderthal who lived more than 40,000 years ago and survived against impossible odds because his community chose to care for him. His story offers compelling evidence that empathy, kindness, and mutual care have always been part of what makes us human.

From fantasy literature and self-forgiveness to anthropology, evolution, and the history of compassion, this episode explores what it means to hold ourselves—and each other—through life's hardest moments.

Topics discussed: Sarah J. Maas, ACOTAR, A Court of Thorns and Roses, A Court of Wings and Ruin, Mirror of Ouroboros, self-love, self-forgiveness, anxiety, mental health, healing, Shanidar 1, Neanderthals, anthropology, human evolution, compassion, empathy, friendship, personal growth, and emotional resilience.

0:00 - Intro
5:14 - Arns: ACOTAR
36:06 - Nins: Shanidar 1
56:00 - Outro

Referenced in this episode:

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brb crying—hosted by longtime best friends Nins & Arns—is a podcast where we explore the songs, books, TV shows, films, pop culture moments, and personal stories that help us laugh, cry, heal, and feel a little less alone. Crying is our superpower, and by sharing what makes us cry in a way that makes us laugh, we show how crying helps us connect with ourselves and each other.

Intro

SPEAKER_02

Hi, I'm Angela Nan.

SPEAKER_01

I'm Ariana Kempis.

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And this is BRB Crying.

SPEAKER_01

Hello everyone. Welcome back to BRB Crying. I'm Ariana, also known as Arns. And I'm Angela, also known as Ninz.

SPEAKER_02

And here we are. Here we are. Another round of cry and why. What? Why? Cry and why? Did you was that prepared? No. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. Cry and why. Please. Yeah. Really? That was amazing. You just got quit. Oh my god. You know? 30, what is it? 32 episodes? We're in it now. Just get better and better. Every single time. Especially with the big dogs now. Um, yeah, this is a podcast where we cry and tell you why. In the charming way that only two of your besties could. So welcome back.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome back. Hope you're excited. Yeah, if you're new here, welcome, new crybaby. If you're old here, welcome back, old crybaby. I don't know. And that's all we got. That's it. See ya. Bye. Until next time. So we're doing a new thing. If this is if this is your first episode back in, we are doing a new thing where we're coming out with episodes every other week instead. Because we're a little tired, and this just helps us energize in between and live our lives so we can come back to you with incredible stories, incredible storytelling, high energy, good vibes. No, none of that burnt out shit. We don't do that. We don't do that here. I've never What is burnout? Been burnt out. I don't know. It's just a word that I've heard thrown around. Yeah. Never experienced it. Yeah. So that is one new piece. Another new piece is we are gonna be doing all of our announcements going forward on our Instagram at BeerB Crying.podcast. So check our socials if you want to be in the know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. We know that you skip those chapters in our episodes anyway. So we're just making it easier. We're getting right to the chase. Yeah. Right into the thick of it. You're welcome. So with that said, how have you been? Um I've been okay.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Half-heartedly so. Yeah, I've been alright. Yeah. It's been um it's been kind of a weird little go-around I've been having. Okay. In every direction. Kind of mayhem. Okay. Most recently, Sana's sick again. Our girl. My girl. What's up? Sick again. Yeah. Of course. Starting to make its way to me a little bit. Sure, sure. It comes with a territory. Okay. Toddler territory.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you have a trip coming up, so it's good that you're getting it out now. Yeah, because that's how it works. Once you get sick, you never get sick ever again.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. But I'm okay. I'm I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02

Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It was nice having like we did our last recording. We had a little bit of time to just recalibrate, rest up. I finished my story three nights ago. Oh. It was like, uh, look at me. I'm gonna read a book. I'm gonna fuck off now for three nights. It was really nice. I love that. So I haven't opened up my story since. Since so we'll see what I read to you. Maybe it's completely deleted. You'll have to like pull it out of your ass. No, don't say that. You're right. Why would I ever say that? You know what? I actually dreamt that we were doing our recording and you were in the middle of telling your story, and I realized that I didn't finish my sources. So the entire time that you were like crying, and I was like, oh shit, where's the link? Where's the link? And then so you had finished your spiel and you were looking at me like, hello, say something. And I was like, oh, that's really sad. Oh my god. So what bad? You know what the f so bad? And you were like, okay, well, I guess it's your turn. And I was like, oh shit, I didn't say anything after her story. God damn. It was really bad. It's horrible. So I made sure that I said my sources for tonight. Nice. Okay. That's good. Well, I know you'd never do that in real life. I would never do that. No. I would never do that. I would just be straight up and be like, hey, I fucked up. Yeah. Sources aren't in this. I'll put them in the show notes. Love it. You know? That is owning up to it.

SPEAKER_01

Accountability. Accountability. Radical accountability. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, well, I hope you're on the up and up. Yeah. As always. As always. You know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, um, let's do this.

SPEAKER_02

Should we just start?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I guess. Okay.

Arns: ACOTAR

SPEAKER_01

I forgot to tell our crybabies last time about the fact that I have my own iPad now. You guys, this is monumental. I've been borrowing people's iPads here and there. It's been kind of all over the place, but luckily, I was duped by Xfinity into lowering my bill by buying the latest iPad. I'm really proud of you. What can I say? Sponsored. It can be. It can be. So it's bright pink. Oh, let me. Oh my god, I forgot to mention that part. My only choices for color bright blue and bright pink. I was like talking to them on the chat. Are you sure there are no other choices? Sorry, that's all we have. So you can see a little peak of it right here. So you. So me. Alright. Okay. What do you have for us? This is tying into my intro a bit. I've been just feeling a little off. Okay. There's a lot, like physically, there's a lot going on. Like I had, I don't know if I told you this, I had eczema like all over my face. And these really bad flare-ups. And I was like getting really self-conscious about it. It was really painful. It meant I couldn't go out in the sun. I couldn't exercise. I couldn't sweat. So there's that. And there's just a whole bunch of other things going on. And so if I can be like so real, I actually was really struggling with what I wanted to talk about this week. Okay. I was like, I was waffling back and forth between a couple of different things, but nothing was quite landing. Do you know that feeling? Oh yeah. Do you ever feel that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like for whatever reason, week after week, my spirit guide will be like, no, this is what you need to talk about. Like there's just an inkling. There's a list that we have. Yes. And for whatever reason, you just feel very strongly for that particular week to talk about this particular item. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay, so the thing is, I take pride in following my intuition and feeling that. But this time it was just, oh, don't talk about that. But not talk about this. It was just a that doesn't feel right, that doesn't feel right. But I couldn't quite land. And so I actually I was spiraling a little bit. I had a lot of anxiety. It was all all these different parts of my life culminating and manifesting in this way. And I know it sounds, it sounds silly, like, just pick something, you know, just go with it. But I realized that when you really care about something, like we care about this podcast, every episode matters. We really want to do it justice, right? Every single week. Yes. So after therapy, doing lots of different things, tapping, I was doing lots of tapping, lots of grounding, things to help myself feel safe in my nervous system. I realized that what is most important for me when it comes to this podcast is just being honest. I know a lot of our stories revolve around crying because you feel good. A lot of this was crying because I didn't feel great. Okay. And so today I kind of want to just talk about that, like being in the thick of it and just trying to find my way out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But with that said, I do have a literary aid. Okay. I must reference. Of course. We are academics after all. We are academics. And today, our literary aid is none other than Listeners, Crybabies, A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Mass. Fuck me up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I want to preface this by saying I am going to talk about this book, but I'm not going to get too deep into the plot because one, there's five fucking books. I would be here for hours. Sarah J. Mass, where is the sixth one, babe?

SPEAKER_02

Where is it? Where is it? We've been waiting, is all I'm saying. I saw the manuscript. Publish it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay. But I really just want to talk about a single scene. Because it kind of relates to everything that I've been feeling and going through. But you know, it's always fun to indulge. So I'll dip I'll dip my toes in some plot. You know, we'll do a little go-around. And maybe if you haven't read it, pique your interest. Maybe. Who knows? But anyway, some cook-a-cook context. A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Mass, otherwise known as ACATAR, that is the acronym that we lovingly refer to this series as, is a wildly popular young adult fantasy series. And I'm gonna read the titles of all the books now. This will be the only time I read them because personally I don't memorize the names of any of them. Do you? I mean, I'd have to think about it. No, I just don't even I've never tried to commit it to memory. I only know the first one. Oh, okay. So, book one, A Court of Thorns and Roses, published in 2015. Book two, A Court of Mist and Fury, published in 2016. Hmm, one year gap. Acamath. Book three, A Court of Wings and Ruin, published in 2017. Echo War. Thank you. I love this. Book three and a half. It's a novella. A court of frost and starlight. I never read that one. Let me tell you. You were like, you don't need to read that. It's just an in-between. Acho fact. And now I'm reading it for the first time. And I'm like, wait, this actually has a lot of information that was helpful to give the context for the following book. Okay. So text it to me. You really misled me there. Um okay. And then book four. A court of silver flames published in 2021. It's now 2025. Where's book five? Who knows? So I'm just gonna call them book one, book two, book three. Obviously, there's a big spoiler alert here. I am going to get as deep as book three. So if you want to pause here, read all five books, and then come back to it, like that's fine. That's fine. Um and if you do, book four, book four? Silver flames. Silver Flames. My girl. So fucking good. Nesta. Also, it's absolutely filthy. It's like straight up, like, this is not young adult.

SPEAKER_02

This is adult. Do not audiobook this around people, okay? Make sure you're alone.

SPEAKER_01

Under like the covers of your bed, eyes closed, you like. Guys, it's like reading porn. I swear to God. It was It's not like it is reading porn. The last book is porn. Okay. But anyway. So good. Okay, wait. Yes, yes, sorry. I'm so sorry. The plot is what's incredible. All right, all right. Okay, so we're just gonna get into some some plots. So this is mostly if you've read the series already, let me just indulge you a little bit, help you, you know, relax into oh, what was that about again? And if you are new here and you don't mind a bit of spoilers, then maybe I'll pique your interest. Maybe you'll pick up the series and spend four months reading it. And then the rest of your lifetime loving it. Oh yeah. Love it. Wow. I yeah, I I read this. I was so late to the game. I only read this because you told me to, because you were like really deep into book talk. And you were like, all right, everyone's saying just wait till you get to the second one. And I was like, that's a crazy thing to say. Chapter 54, 55. But you got me. All right. All right, we're just gonna get into it. I'm just gonna give a little synopsis. Ferah Archeron is a human like me. I am Phayra. We are all Phaerah. You know, reading through this, I was like, who would I be cast as in the film version? Amran.

unknown

Yes!

SPEAKER_01

She's ancient and has short hair. Yes, yeah. Oh, you read my mind. All right, so Fera Archeron is a human, the youngest of three sisters, and after a turn of events where their father gambles away their entire fortune, her family is super poor, on the brink of starvation, for some weird reason, everyone, her dad and her two sisters, are relying on her to hunt and fend for them. As humans, a little bit of context within the context, they fear fairies and they steer clear of them because they're super powerful and awful and horrendous, scary, whatever. But one day, Fera goes into the forest, again, 19-year-old, for some reason, hunting for her family. Everyone else is incompetent, and she kills a wolf, skins it, whatever, feeds her family. Come to find out, our girl accidentally killed a fucking fairy. What she's fucked. So in the dead of the night, a beast comes ripping down their door. Who killed that wolf? Ooh. So scary. And as punishment, she is whisked away to the fairylands. Oh no! What are we gonna do? Okay, so at this point, to make it concise, it's basically Beauty and the Beast. The Beast is Tamlin, High Lord of the Spring Court. Tim Tam. Tim Tam. As an aside, there are seven fairy courts. The four seasons, spring, summer, autumn, and winter, and then the three solar courts, day, dawn, and night. Each court has a High Lord. So again, she's in the Spring Court with Tamlin. And she's afraid of him because he's super powerful and blah blah blah. But surprise, he's actually really nice to her, and they fall in love. Didn't see that coming. Did not see that coming. And the whole overarching plot, the entire fairy realm going to shit because there is this evil queen somewhere under this mysterious mountain who's pretty much been controlling the lands for the last fifty years. So at the end of book one, I'm really skipping ahead here, if you cannot tell. Faebra has no choice but to go under those mountains, save Tamlin, save all the fairies. She has some run-ins with the High Lord of the Night Court Resand. Hmm. Who is that? Who's that? He is curiously the most handsome man she's ever seen in her life. Way more powerful than Tim Tam. And he bargains with her and he says, I'll help you get out of this mess. I'll help you save all the fairies. If you just spend one week with me every month at my night court. So okay, spoiler warning. I swear to God, if you don't want to know anything past the first book, stop here. But spoiler warning, this is the true love interest. And can I say, this actually really took me by surprise. I really thought Beauty and the Beast, Beast was endgame, you know? Mm-hmm. That's why when Ninz was like, just wait till you get to the second book. I was like, okay. But fuck, dude. Anyways, Fera, Huntress, Extraordinaire. Frees the fairies. Freeze everyone under the mountain. Saves Tamlin. But she has to do some really, really awful things. Learn to read. Okay, yeah. She okay. This is a big one. She's illiterate. And like her fucking sister didn't bother to teach her how to read. Tamlin does, to his credit, offers to help write letters for her. But in the second book, guess who teaches her how to read? Reese hand. Okay, so anyway, sh so she's having to do some really awful things while she's under the mountain. She has to kill these two innocent fairies. And this really fucks her up for months after she is waking up in the middle of the night vomiting because it's horrifying. It's a horrifying thing. And after all that, she also dies in the process. And she's magically resurrected when all seven High Lords give her a little drop of their power. Now she's an immortal fairy who has a tinge of power from each of these dudes. So she can shape shift like Tamlin. She can read minds like Resand. And then we're brought to book two. We are in book two, everyone. Again, this is where it gets good. It's true. Um so again, Ferah plagued by the nightmares, all the shitty things that have gone on under the mountain. She starts to feel suffocated in her relationship with Tamlin. And at the same time, she has to visit Resand one week a month to uphold her bargain. And spoiler alert, she falls in love. And he teaches her how to read. Big deal. Big deal. Academics. Huge deal. Big deal. And Fayra now has to come to terms with the fact that the softness and the comfort and the safety that Tamlin offered her, all of those things that contributed to her falling in love with him, it's not what she needs anymore. What she needs is someone who lets her live freely, make her own decisions, who can stand by her while she's reliving the horrors of what she went through while also appreciating the grit and the strength and the way that it's shaped her now.

unknown

Resand.

SPEAKER_01

And I just I just need to say it one more time. This was such a wild plot twist for me because I don't think I've ever read a series where the first guy, like you're really led to believe that he is it, and then he's not. And so it's riveting because Fera is genuinely falling in love with him. And you start to like care for her Tamlin too as her love interest. So then to have to watch it all fall apart and the messiness and the guilt, you watch Fayra choose to be honest with herself and start to reckon with that part of her that just isn't so pretty after all. So book three, we're we're skipping ahead a little bit. Book two, her and resand. That's all you that's all you gotta know. Book three, there's a fairy war on the horizon. And now I'm going to skip through again 99% of the book to talk about uh why I cried. Okay. So all right. I do I was like, God, how do I condense this? How do I give what a huge undertaking? I that's why I was like, I'm just not gonna undertake it. I'm just gonna skip ahead. So, all you gotta know, cry babies. There is this horrifying ancient beast in this deep, dark, ancient prison called the Bone Carver. And the Bone Carver's powers are not of this world. He's so powerful that if she can convince him to join their side, he can help them win the war. But in order for the bone carver to agree to unleash his powers upon Hibern, the enemy, he wants possession of this mythical artifact called the Ouroboros. Do you remember this? Kind of. I don't remember what the Ouroboros is. I remember this plot. Okay. So we don't know much about the Ouroboros. All we know is that it is a mirror of sorts, and it's basically impossible to look at in all of history. Everyone who has ever looked at that mirror has completely fallen apart and their minds have been shattered. So everyone's like, fuck that. We can't risk shattering someone's mind for this war. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Doesn't she do this like while the war is raging? Yes. She just like leaves for like a few hours. The night before, yeah. Just disappears.

SPEAKER_01

But everyone's really desperate and they need they gotta win. So Ferah's like, all right, fuck it. I'm gonna pay a visit to the mirror. So I'm gonna pause here and read a few passages. I've condensed this a little bit to remove some pieces that I felt like would just be confusing because I haven't referenced them. Yeah. Alright. So this passage is when Fera decides to go to the Ouroboros and look in the mirror. I shuddered against the cold, rubbing my arms. My reflection did the same. Hello? I whispered. There was nothing. My hands burned with cold. Up close, the surface of the Ouroboros was like a grey calm sea, undisturbed, sleeping. But in its upper corner, movement. No, not movement in the mirror, behind me. I was not alone. Crawling down the snow-kissed wall, a massive beast of claws and scales and fur and shredding teeth inched toward the floor, toward me. I kept my breathing steady, did not let it scent a tendril of my fear, whatever it was. Some guardian of this place, some creature that had crawled in through the cracks. Its enormous paws were near silent on the floor, the fur on them a blend of black and gold. Not a beast designed to hunt in these mountains, certainly not with the ridge of dark scales down its back, and the large shining eyes. I didn't have time to remark on those blue grey eyes as the beast pounced. I whirled Illyrian daggers in my freezing hand, ducking low and aiming up for the heart. But no impact came, only snow and cold and wind. There was nothing before me, behind me, no paw prints in the snow. I whirled to the mirror where I had been standing. That beast now sat, its scaled tail, idly swishing through the snow, watching me. No, not watching, gazing back at me. My reflection of what lurked beneath my skin. My knife clattered to the stones and snow, and I looked into the mirror. So in this next passage, Fera is now visiting the bone carver, the one who requested this mirror. The bone carver was sitting against the wall as I entered his cell. I only stared at him, and for once the carver seemed to go very still and quiet. He whispered, You retrieved it. I looked toward a corner of his cell. The Ouroboros appeared, snow and ice still cresting it. Mine to summon, wherever and whenever I wished. How? Words were still foreign, strange things. This body that I had returned to. It was strange too. My tongue was dry as paper as I said I looked. What did you see? The carver got to his feet. I sank a little further back into my body, just enough to smile slightly. That is none of your concern. For the mirror it had shown me so many things. I did not know how long had passed. Time it had been different inside the mirror, but even a few hours might have been too many. I pointed to the door. You have your mirror, now uphold your end. Battle awaits. The bone carver glanced between me and the mirror, and he smiled. It would be my pleasure. And the way he said it, I was wrung dry, my soul new and trembling, and yet I asked, What do you mean? The carver simply straightened his clothes. I have little need for that thing, he said, gesturing to the mirror. But you did. I blinked slowly. I wanted to see if you were worth helping, the carver went on. It's a rare person to face who they truly are and not run from it, not be broken by it. That's what the Ouroboros shows all who look into it. Who they are, every despicable and unholy inch. Some gaze upon it and don't even realize that the horror they're seeing is them, even as the terror of it drives them mad. Some swagger in and are shattered by the small, sorry creature they find instead. But you yes, rare indeed. I could risk leaving here for nothing less. And this last passage I'm gonna read is We're in the thick of battle, and Ferah calls upon the bone carver to unleash its powers on the enemy. Both armies seemed to pause with surprise. You retrieved the Ouroboros, Reese whispered. I did. He scanned me from head to toe, the wind stirring his blue black hair as he asked softly, What did you see? Hibern was stirring, frantically assessing what and who now stood before them. Myself, I said at last. I saw myself. It was, perhaps, the one thing I would never show him, anyone. How I had cowered and raged and wept, how I had vomited and screamed and clawed at the mirror, slammed my fists into it, and then curled up, trembling at every horrific and cruel and selfish thing I'd beheld within that monster, within me. But I had kept watching, I did not turn from it, and when my shaking stopped, I studied it. All of those wretched things, the pride and the hypocrisy and the shame, the rage and the cowardice and the hurt. Then I began to see other things, more important things, more vital. And what I saw, I said quietly to him as the carver raised a hand, I think I think I loved it. Forgave it. Me, all of it. It was only in that moment when I knew I'd understood that only I could allow the bad to break me. Only I could own it, embrace it. And when I learned that the Ouroboros had yielded to me, Reese arched a brow even as awe crept across his face. You loved all of it, the good and the bad. I smiled a bit, especially the bad. So as I mentioned in the beginning, the reason why I wanted to get into all this, get into this whole story just for this one scene, is because when I was at the height of my anxiety, trying to figure out what I wanted to share in this space and what felt true to how I was really feeling. I realized that it's easy to feel good when you're already feeling good. But I think what shapes us is how we choose to move through life on the days where we don't feel so great. Whether we can be brave enough to look in the mirror and witness every inch of ourselves. The good, the bad, the ugly, all our mistakes, all our faults, everything we wish we could change about ourselves. We have to ask: can we look in the mirror and decide to love ourselves anyway? Can we look at where we are in life and no matter how shitty it is, decide to love where we're at anyway? A lot of readers online argue that Sarah J. Mass, the author, glossed over this scene too much. They want to know what did Farris see in the mirror. But when I read it, I realize I I don't really care to know what Ferris saw in the mirror because I think the bigger question is, what do I see in the mirror? Do I still love myself when things get hard? When life is confusing and I'm faced with these decisions and it's messy and I don't know how to move forward. If I think I've grown past my anxiety and my fear and my worry and my shadows and all the bad things, all the ugly things, everything that plagues me, and then in an instant it all just comes flooding back. Do I still choose to love myself then? It's really easy to love yourself when you like what you see. But maybe this human experience, this entire journey is about loving ourselves even when what we see is less than ideal. I don't like feeling confused and broken. I don't think anyone enjoys that uncertainty and that fear. But I know now that every time I spiral, every time I fall into this, no matter how shitty I feel, that is the universe letting me choose how I move forward and the universe giving me a chance to show up for myself. Do I keep beating myself up? Do I become a victim to my pain? Or do I welcome the chaos and the darkness like Faira does as part of her journey, as part of my journey. It's really easy to reject the parts of ourselves that we don't like. I think a lot of us, if we're not careful, might end up going our whole lives feeling that way. But there's so much power in reclaiming those parts of ourselves and forgiving ourselves and loving ourselves, and I want to choose that power. So thank you, Sarah J. Mass, for consuming like the past four months of my life as I reread, reread this series, but also for just giving us the courage to behold our own darkness and love ourselves anyway.

SPEAKER_02

I am crying because I know our spirit guides were telling us to write these two stories today. Really? Oh shit. Yeah. Like it's it's kind of spooky.

SPEAKER_01

Should we just like get straight into it?

SPEAKER_02

No, no, I do want to dwell on what you said, and thank you so much for your vulnerability there. And doing it in a girly pop way, because I fucking love Actar. I think that there is power in the acknowledgement that we are not all good things. We are so many different things. And part of the journey is just accepting it and loving it.

SPEAKER_01

Loving it anyway. Yeah. These past few months when we've really gotten into this idea of just feeling good as the ultimate goal and feeling good no matter what, and trying to find those kernels of hope to hold on to. That's where I used to feel comfortable. And so being so far removed from it and then being thrown back in, it was so foreign. But I think this is the first time I've had one of those episodes of anxiety and been able to like plow my way out of it, you know, and being able to see it as like this is like I get to choose how I how I see myself right now. There's so much I used to yield, so much of feeling like a victim that I used to almost relinquish. Like I I want it was easier, it was just so much easier to say, like, everything that's happening is out of my control. Everything that's happening is just happening to me, and I can't do anything about it. But to be able to be like, no, I can still maybe not do anything about it, but I can I can still like hold myself through this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. For a girl who can't read, quite she's a smart little cookie. Quite perceptive, you know. There, my girl, dude. Nessa, too. Elaine, I'll wait for book five. We're waiting. But I'm just saying you're gonna plant flowers while your family starves. Yeah. Girl, I plant a carrot, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Plant some vegetables.

SPEAKER_02

Plant something useful.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

No, but she's holding herself through it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, you know. But we're gonna fucking like eat our woods like, oh no, but she was like, she was doing it the right way. Like she was romanticizing her life even when it was bad. It's her own journey. That was good. Yeah. Like just a little dabble into Avatar, you know? How are you feeling now? I feel really good. Okay. I had a whole thing, and then I like talked to my therapist and I did lots of inner child work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I think the best thing for me to remember whenever I'm in the throes of it is just like knowing, like, hey, everything is temporary. There is another side to this where you're not even gonna remember feeling this way. Yeah. You're gonna get through it. Yeah. And no matter what means or methods you do, you just get through it. Yeah. And then you feel good again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Sometimes it's all you can do. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just like hold yourself through it. Yeah. Holding. Thanks.

Nins: Shanidar 1

SPEAKER_01

Alright.

SPEAKER_02

Are you ready? I'm ready. I'm excited. Yeah. Hopefully I didn't type it up too much. It has nothing to do with what you just talked about. Oh, okay. Okay. Today we're getting a little nerdy. Okay. I know that you and I are very complex creatures. Yes. With an infinite amount of talents and hobbies and interests. It's not easy to be us. You love to sew, I love to bake. Like we're just please. Everything we offer to this world. Save some for the rest of them, you know? And I know that through this podcast, you and I have revealed so many sides of ourselves to our loving crybabies. We've proven that we have impeccable taste when it comes to books and movies and music and TV shows. And we've allowed the world to see a glimpse of our friendship. And now they can see that we're actually like some of the funniest people alive. Top 10% at least. Yeah, top 10%. No.

SPEAKER_01

That's a big I would say top 1%. Really? Um it. Fuck it. What?

SPEAKER_02

What the fuck?

SPEAKER_01

I'm actually a little offended, but okay, go on.

SPEAKER_02

I was like trying to be like cute and humble, but okay. But at the core of these two brilliant, beautiful, and hilarious goddesses are just two girlies who love to learn about anything. Art, history, just the world and everything beyond. So today I want you and all of our crybabies to learn about a Neanderthal named Shanadar One. Hmm. We are getting anthropological today. Anthropological. Anthropology. I wore my anthropology pants today. That makes sense. In theme. Okay. Sponsor us. Sponsor us. Okay. So I first came across this story on my TikTok for you page. Obviously. And it was a video from a TikToker named at Odd Pride. Her real name is Astrid Lundberg, and she has a huge platform on her TikTok with over 850,000 followers and over 23 million likes across all her videos. And her page is literally just her sharing her love of paleontology, anthropology, and history among these other niche interests. According to her website, she says, I chose the name Odd Pride because I wanted to present an unfiltered version of myself and my passions to the world. One that refuses to pretend not to be odd. I think the world is fascinating, and I hoped to reach people who were as excited as I was by all the weird and wonderful facts and ideas I love to share. And I will get to my story about Shannadar One, but I do want to spend time highlighting Astrid for a bit because I am such a firm believer that any subject can be interesting so long as the person talking about it has enough passion and excitement when telling you about it. Case in points. You know what I mean? Like I remember in college, I very demurely failed a class. Oh cute. I had to retake an engineering class because I failed it. Structural analysis, and the professor was just fucking not it. I don't even remember his name. Let alone anything he fucking taught me. And so when I retook the course with a different professor, it was fucking great. I loved her. I think I got like an A-. Yeah. Like Ew, A-No, I feel that. You know what I mean? I feel that, dude. And all this to say, it's just so important to have a person who has a passion for what they're talking about to make that infectious for other people. So that's why I love Astrid's page. And probably the main reason why when she first came across my for you page, I decided to keep watching instead of scrolling. Because the way that she talks about her interests in paleontology and anthropology with such vigor and sincerity, it makes you excited to listen. She is spewing facts about fossils and sediment deposits and various rock formations in a way that almost feels like straight up like spoken word. It's it's just beautiful. It feels like poetry when she's talking about these things. And she brings such a level of humanity when she's talking about it. It's beautiful. And her love for these topics is beautiful and infectious. And so I hope I do it justice today when I share with you the story that she shared. Because what I learned from her has stayed with me since. So here we go. Let's all learn about this Neanderthal named Shanidar One. Okay, I'm ready. So my sources for today, which I did prior to today's recording. Thank God. As mentioned, Astrid Lundberg's TikTok account at OddPride, and I'll include links to the exact videos I'll be referencing. Astrid Lundberg's website, oddpride.com, the Smithsonian Institute's website on human origins, and a published journal for anthropology by Jan Lietava. Okay, so now give me like 60 seconds to just explain the evolution of man really, really quick. Please. Kakuka context. Um we know that humans evolved from apes. So we have apes to Australopithecus, to Homo habilis, to Homo erectus, to Neanderthals, to Homo sapiens. This is just like common knowledge. We all know this. This is very obvious. So basically, Neanderthals were the direct ancestors of Homo sapiens. We are Homo sapiens. Yes. So they are like right before us. Okay. Okay. If anyone listening has an actual degree in anthropology, please don't come for me. I am I am just a girl. I'm really sorry, okay? I barely passed my engineering classes, okay? Please. Please. Okay. So Shanidar One. Sorry, can you spell it?

SPEAKER_01

I like you keep saying the name, and I'm like, how did you spell this?

SPEAKER_02

I'm trying to visualize. Shanidar is spelled S-H-A-N-I-D-A-R, and then one, number one.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

It is one of the most famous Neanderthal skeletons ever discovered. And it was found in 1957 in Shanadar Cave, which is located in the Zagros Mountains of northern Iraq. A team of anthropologists from Columbia University, led by Ralph Salecki, found the remains of an elderly Neanderthal, which they officially named Shanadar 1 because it was the first of ten different Neanderthal skeletons they found in this cave. But over time they gave him the nickname Nandy. So I'm gonna call him Nandy from now on. Cute. So after analyzing Nandy's almost complete skeleton, they deduced that he was around 35 to 45 years old when he died, which was over 40,000 years ago. And for this time period and this particular species, this was considered old age. Not even considered like average lifespan, like straight up old senior citizen. Okay. Full ass life. You know what I mean? Get the discounts. Oh yeah. Denny's does Denny's have one? Yeah. The Grand Slam Denny's. Yeah. That was his favorite. Um, there are very few records of any Neanderthals who lived beyond their 40s. So this was like, okay, this is fucking serious. But what is super interesting to note about Nandy's skeleton are all of the signs of deformities. He had a range of healed trauma-related abnormalities to his skeleton, broken bones that recovered, essentially. His skull showed signs that at some point in his early life he experienced a violent blow to the head that fractured like the entire left side of his face. And he most likely became blind in one eye and maybe suffered some hearing loss and even had some mental incapacities, among other things. He also had like a straight-up withered right hand that was fractured in several places and became unusable. And so there are even signs that his right arm was like purposely and successfully amputated. It just like ends in like a little nub that looked like it healed cleanly. And fucking Nandi just like survived it and just continued living. Whatever. My dude. Scientists also suspect that the amputation most likely caused some sort of paralysis on the right side of his body. A lot. So he like most likely lived the rest of his life with a limp. On top of everything fucking else, right?

SPEAKER_01

I'm stressed.

SPEAKER_02

Right? I'm fucking stressed out. Like, is he okay? Does he need some advocate? Oh, yeah. So just to summarize here, Nandy had a broken skull that left him partially blind, deaf, maybe brain damaged, no right hand, right side paralysis, and a persistent limp. And yet, Nandy died of old age. You never know.

SPEAKER_01

You never know.

SPEAKER_02

During a time when it was hunt or be hunted, where every second is dedicated to survival, how the fuck did Nandy do it? How is Nandy able to live this long? It could only mean one thing. Someone was taking care of him. Someone, or most likely, a group of fellow Neanderthals, looked at Nandy and decided that even though he couldn't contribute by means of hunting or gathering or fighting, that he was still meaningful, important, worthy of protection and preservation. That is why Nandy is such a big deal. He is tangible evidence of the earliest signs of altruistic behavior in our species. They simply cared for him because they wanted to. Because he provided something beyond a physical need. Companionship. Maybe he was really funny. I don't know. Probably. Probably. Top one percent. Top one percent. Good company. We'll never know why. But it can't be denied that they cared about him. In one of Astrid's videos about Nandy, she says, Shanidar one is a reminder that the currents of compassion and mercy and love run incredibly deeply, not just in the history of our human species, but in the entire human lineage. It is in our DNA to care. It is embedded in our brains and in our bones to look at someone beside us and want to know them, love them, protect them. It has always been part of the human experience. It would be a shame if you did. I go on that page and I scroll and I scroll and I scroll. As you should. As we all should. So I continue to scour Odd Pride's page looking for more videos where she shares more details about my new BFF Nandy. Because she posts about him often. And in one of her videos, someone commented asking, where is he now? He was discovered in 1957. So surely he's on display at some museum charging $40 per entry. Like, I'm trying to go. You know, let's book a trip. But it turns out you can't see him. His remains aren't on display because as Astrid reveals in her TikTok response, Nandy's skeleton was most likely destroyed in the 2003 US invasion of Iraq. Shanadar won't life is a symbol of human empathy and compassion and tenderness. So how ironic is it that his ultimate demise is also a symbol of human violence and destruction. As much as we hate to acknowledge it, humans have both of these sides within us. We are complex creatures, after all. But the good news is we have a choice. We always have a choice. So you decide. What human instinct will you give in to? And to help you answer that question, I will end it with one more quote from Astrid Lundberg, who says just think what the wealth of the modern world could accomplish if we remembered that it is both our heritage and our birthright to care.

SPEAKER_01

Um Nandy. Like the idea that they cared for him because they wanted to. When Jomar ran his marathon, at the end of it, he came and me and Asana met him at the finish line, and like he hugged me and he was crying. And I was telling his sister, Meos about this, and she said, Isn't it such a wonderful thing to support each other and cheer each other on? We don't have to do that. We simply don't have to do that. There is no physical obligation. And yet we do it anyway. And that's what I think of. Like how beautiful it is that in a world where it's hunter be hunted to find him worthy of putting aside for safekeeping, for companionship, whatever, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And not that I could validate this with any research, but like the fact that this cave had so many skeletons, and his in particular was so well preserved. Like, did they intentionally bury him in this place where they could remember him beyond his life? Like, I don't. Yeah. I don't know. And maybe you're a skeptic or maybe you actually have a degree in this shit and you want to tell me, like, oh, maybe his lineage was Don't fucking tell me that.

SPEAKER_01

I don't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_02

I don't want to hear it. But it's like, yeah, even then, even if it was like, oh, his dad was the main leader of our group, then so what? That is still recognizing that people are more than their physical contributions. Yeah. We are so much more than our bodies. And it's so visible to the people around us. They love you not because you don't have eczema on your face. Yeah. They love you because of your heart.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I love the idea of that being the turning point in our development as humans. This is when we went this direction, and this is when we started choosing love over survival.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. But kind of going back to your story, you know, just because we make those decisions, it doesn't mean that the darkness is erased.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

There is still war. There is still survival. But we just we have that choice. How are you gonna navigate when you are in that fork in the road? What are you gonna like decide to listen to?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

How will you hold yourself through it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That was beautiful. Have to give all the credit to my other bestie, Astrid.

SPEAKER_01

Astrid. My girl. She is incredible. I can't wait to follow. I love when people talk about something that they're so passionate about. Because how can you how can you not love when someone is just so fired up and so moved to share?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So that's me fired up. Here to tell, yeah. Oh that connection. You know what I mean? It was there. That's why I had chills when you were telling me the story. Yeah. Just hearing like, oh, you didn't know what you were gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_01

Like pitch. Literally up until two days ago. I was like, Yeah, I was like literally you were done three days ago. I started two days ago, you know. Oh, interesting. You just condensed all of that guitar in like page and a half. As you may have noticed, I did not cite any sources because the source was me, baby. That was all me. You know, hell yeah. My memory.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This podcast is really funny today. It's so funny. Top one percent.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. For sure.

Outro

SPEAKER_01

And that's what we fucking got. That's what we fucking got, everyone. Crazy. Crazy. Thank you all so much, as always, for tuning in, for lending us your ears for this past hour. Please, please give us a follow. See what we're up to on socials at beerbicrying.podcast. We're on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. You can watch our videos, probably be uploading this video to Spotify. Watch us on there if you want. Leave us a review. Tell us how funny we are, how kind, generous, complex. Complex. So funny. 1%. 1% funny we are. You can leave us a review on Apple, five stars on Spotify. If you have a story, a sob story that you want to share with us, something that made you cry, we would love to hear from you. Email us hello at beerbecryingpodcast.com or submit a form on our website, beerbecryingpodcast.com.

SPEAKER_02

And at the minimum, if you're lazy and you want to do any of that, just text your best friend about your new favorite podcast. Spread the word. Spread the wealth. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Alrighty. And that's all we got. That's all we fucking got. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you at the next one. But until then, beer bee crying.