Beyond My Years

Your starter pack to mentorship, starring Serena Klosa

• Amplify Education • Season 1 • Episode 10

Share episode

Today on Beyond My Years, host Ana Torres gets wisdom from Serena Klosa, an educator with 37 years of experience as a teacher, principal, and now deputy chief of schools. Serena discusses what it takes to be a good mentor and to be mentored by others—stressing the humility it requires and the strength it creates. She also shares stories of the “Queens of the Third Floor” and their no-nonsense approach to mentoring, and opens up about the lessons she won’t let herself forget. Taking all those lessons back to the classroom, Ana and Classroom Insider Eric Cross discuss maintaining positive routines with students, staying humble, and valuing every role in the school.

Show notes:

Quotes:
“Every kick in the butt is a boost up.” —Serena Klosa

“My teaching is not something I do. It's who I am.” —Serena Klosa

“Asking for mentoring is not a sign of weakness. It's saying, ‘I want to be better and I want to grow.’ And  sometimes, if you don't ask, they're not going to do it.” —Serena Klosa


[00:00:00] Serena Klosa: If you are assigned someone that you do not trust, then that is not your mentor. TRUST is a must.

[00:00:07] Ana Torres: This is Ana Torres and welcome to Beyond My Years from Amplify. On each episode, I speak with longtime educators who share chronicles from the classroom, and some lessons they like to pass on to newer teachers. With all the turnover in education, we know not everyone has access to mentor teachers. That's why we're so excited to bring you the voices of incredible seasoned educators. So we are kicking off the new year with a question, and it's kind of a big one. What does it mean to be coachable? So many guests throughout this first season have talked about the importance of learning from seasoned educators. But how do you actually develop a bond with a mentor teacher, and take their feedback? Even if sometimes it stings a little bit. Today's guest has a lot to say about all of that. Her name is Serena Klosa, and she's a longtime Chicago Public Schools educator. She is someone who has worked as a teacher, assistant principal, principal, and deputy chief of schools. Serena has had some very big jobs in a very big district. But that's not the only reason I am so excited to bring Serena on. Early in her career, back when she was a new eighth grade science teacher, Serena found herself alongside three tight knit, very passionate, seasoned teachers. They had a reputation for not always being the easiest to work with. It was a situation that could have gone badly for Serena. On this episode, she's going to tell us about navigating that moment. And she's also going to share what she learned about being coachable. And what she learned from that trio of seasoned teachers. Not to mention, she will also pass on some of her knowledge from being a teacher, from being an assistant principal, principal, and district level educator. Don't forget to stick around until the end to hear from classroom insider, Eric Cross. But now. Here's Serena Klosa. Today's guest is Serena Klosa. And I'm so happy to have her on our podcast. She is still in touch with a couple of special mentors from early in her career. And I can't wait for you to hear about that story. It's coming up. But first, let me welcome, and I wish I could give you a warm embrace, Serena, let's welcome Serena to Beyond My Years. Hi, Serena. 

[00:03:07] Serena Klosa: Hello. How's it going? So good to be here. 

[00:03:10] Ana Torres: Oh, I know. I'm excited to have you here. Let's talk a little bit about how many years you've been an educator. 

[00:03:16] Serena Klosa: I have been in education for 37 years. This is my 37th year as an educator. 

[00:03:22] Ana Torres: 37 years, Serena! What kind of roles have you had in those 37 years?

[00:03:29] Serena Klosa: I always say that I'm like old school. So, I start off as a teacher. I actually did do a few months as a teacher's aide when I finished my student teaching. So, I was a teacher's aide. I was a teacher. Then I became an assistant principal. Then I was a principal. And my current role is deputy chief. So my role, currently, I supervise principals across the district in which I work.

[00:03:55] Ana Torres: So, talk about your amazing trajectory, right? Teacher, admin, now we're big time admin. I mean, that is a big title, deputy chief. What would you say out of all the roles you've had is the best part of becoming a more experienced educator like yourself? 

[00:04:13] Serena Klosa: Well, when we first spoke, I talked about really having a slow and steady trajectory. I spent 13 years in a classroom teaching. So when I would coach teachers as an assistant principal, I'm like, I was just here. I was just in your role for 13 years. Then spending seven years in the assistant principal, really understanding how schools work in a spot where I wasn't the person in charge, and can learn from a principal. And then, spending over 11 years as a principal in my district, again, still having that teacher lens, never forgetting. So I would say I never forgot where I'd come from before. 

[00:04:53] Ana Torres: And as I'm just listening to you , and even in our past conversations too, cause I've been a principal as well. I've been a teacher. But you're a teacher's teacher. And with that, Serena, what would you say in your 37 year trajectory, if you could give a little secret to that? What is your secret to a long and successful career, such as what you have right now? 

[00:05:18] Serena Klosa: I would say be open to learning every time you move on up, if you will. And that also means standing back and being a reflective learner. Continually to be a reflective learner. It's very easy when you are the new kid on the block, fresh out of college, walking into a school saying like, "I know all the new innovative ways to teach. I don't need to listen to the person who's been here 30 years. What does she know? He know?" That's not a way to grow, right? And I also think that as educators, we're wired to always be the A student. We want the A, right? 

[00:05:53] Ana Torres: All the time, right? Right out the gate. Absolutely. 

[00:05:56] Serena Klosa: Yes. I mean, I'm still guilty of that. But in order to grow, you have to be able to receive that feedback. And there are times when, I think back and I'm like, ugh, if I had only paused, and really took in some of that feedback. Maybe the lessons I learned would have been a little bit easier. There are times when it's not as easy. And it's a little bit bumpy. But people aren't always willing to give you the advice if you're not willing to receive that advice. You have to be open. Those are the educators that you see grow and move students. So I would say really being open to being coached, if you will, and being mentored. Just this morning I met with my first year principal mentor again. He will always give it to me straight. So I still keep those relationships open, because I'm not done growing myself. 

[00:06:54] Ana Torres: I love that kind of secret sauce, right? Being open, being reflective. You actually even just hit on a question that I was going to ask. That piece of advice that you would give yourself as a younger educator. That sounds like that mentorship piece is where you were going. I don't want to put words in your mouth. 

[00:07:14] Serena Klosa: Yeah, I remember walking into, my first year teaching. My first teaching position, I had replaced many other people before me. They called it like a revolving door. They couldn't keep a teacher in that position. It was an eighth grade teaching position with three other amazing, strong veteran teachers. And you know, I walked in there like, we're trying to figure out where they were going to place kids, in what homeroom. And they talked about a difficult kid. I'm like, "Oh, I can take that individual. I could take that kid." And they're like, "Well, let's see what she can do." And I got my, butt kicked a lot. Cause I thought, "Oh, he'll relate to me. I'm young. I know what I'm doing." And it wasn't until I was like, OK, I'm going to need help with this kiddo. Cause it is not good. And they were like, "We were wondering how long it would take you to come around and ask." So again, I think you walk in making these preconceived, I'm going to be so relatable to the kids, or they're going to want to do their best for me because I'm going to motivate them. Really, kids need to be engaged. Kids need some boundaries. Kids know that you're going to be consistent with them. And there's nothing better than a veteran who has been successful to give you that type of advice. 

[00:08:27] Ana Torres: And I'm so glad that you're segwaying into that. I think we all come out of, and I went through an alternative certification program, and I remember coming out of that program just being very altruistic, right? Like, of course they're going to perform for me. I'm passionate. I think I know what I'm doing. And man. You mentioned having strong mentors. And so you went in, you thought you could do it. You fell on your face and realized, I'm going to need help along the way. And so I want to start with the beginning of that. And I want to set the scene a little bit more for everyone. Was that eighth grade gig you had as your first job? 

[00:09:10] Serena Klosa: Yep. 

[00:09:10] Ana Torres: Cause I want you to tell your amazing story of what happened, and some amazing people you've met along the way during that time. 

[00:09:18] Serena Klosa: Yeah. I did teach in a different district first. So this was my first job in my current district, I used to say. I talked about 13 years in teaching. I had taught a couple of years in a different, a very different, type of environment. OK. So, I walked in, I had originally been placed in a fifth grade position, and my principal came to me and said, "Hey, I'm not going to find a more stellar, eighth grade science person than you." After I set my classroom, and you know, that's fine, I'll go ahead and do that. What I didn't know is that the three women I would be working with had a reputation, they used to be called the Queens of the Third Floor, of not being the easiest people to necessarily work with. 

[00:09:57] Ana Torres: But I love that they were known as that, the Queens of the Third Floor.

[00:10:03] Serena Klosa: Right. OK. What I can tell you about the Queens of the Third Floor is that they had passion for their craft. And that passion meant you got to be equal to this passion, and you got to do what we tell you. Because if you do what we tell you, you will be a successful teacher. 

[00:10:21] Ana Torres: So they were vetting you, weren't they? They were vetting you. 

[00:10:23] Serena Klosa: Well, OK. So the funny story is, I get introduced to them, and the one looked and just went, "Oh, I want to retire." 

[00:10:34] Ana Torres: Oh, wow! 

[00:10:35] Serena Klosa: And I'm like, OK, welcome to the eighth grade. Yeah. 

[00:10:39] Ana Torres: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:10:40] Serena Klosa: But it's funny. I'll never forget, fast forward after the end of quarter one. She's like, "I really like you." And to me like that was just... "And you know why I like you? Because you listened." You didn't tell us what to do. You didn't come in here and...." Believe me, I may not have said it to them, but I was thinking, "Oh, I know more than them, or I could do this better," or something like that. But I respected their position. Who am I to come in and want to change everything? They had been in that school and their positions for a number of years. They've seen the school go through a lot of ups and downs and changes. Who was I to come in? And so I was like, I'm just going to sit back and listen, and I will know when it's my time to give what I think would be a great next step. And that's how it worked. And then we were the team to reckon with. And let me tell you, kids know when they can't play you off each other. They're like, I don't agree with you. I'm going to go to this teacher and get my way. They know that we were a TEAM. And if I had a problem with a student, we all met with the students and the parents to say, "This isn't just a Serena Klosa problem. This is an issue we're seeing." And I'll tell you, they didn't do that with the people before me. They're like, "You know what? They don't play well with others. Good luck." So when you do play well with others, and you listen, and you observe, and you take in that feedback, you'll have the support that you need. Because you can't do it alone as a new teacher. You can't. You got to have that squad that's going to have your back. And they did. I say to this day, I am where I am because of the Queens of the Third Floor. Because I'm telling you, they didn't mince words. Don't give me when I say that, "Oh, they had my back, and they were so supportive," they weren't always nice. They would just say it the way it is. 

[00:12:31] Ana Torres: But it sounds like you appreciated that though, Serena. They were you know, kind of what children do in the classroom? I'm gonna push you, I'm going to even cross boundaries to ensure that you're really in it for the right reasons. And they were doing that to you. Is she going to stand the test? Is she really here for the right reasons? And it sounds like you proved to the Queens of the Third Floor that you were open. 

[00:12:55] Serena Klosa: Yes. 

[00:12:56] Ana Torres: And yes, they might have been bossy, but they've had folks that came in and kind of like you and we're trying to give them tips. It's like no, no, no, hold on. 

[00:13:03] Serena Klosa: Right.

[00:13:04] Ana Torres: Are you here for the right reasons? And what I appreciate about what you said, and you said it initially was that, secret sauce is being open and reflective. And because you stood the test, they were probably open to receiving some of the observations and some of the tips. 

[00:13:20] Serena Klosa: Yeah. 

[00:13:20] Ana Torres: And I know you mentioned that they had tough conversations with you.

[00:13:24] Serena Klosa: Yeah. 

[00:13:25] Ana Torres: You want to tell us the story of the toughest conversation you had to have with these queens? 

[00:13:30] Serena Klosa: I would say one that was early on, it was a pretty tough school. I want to say in an urban district, and I came from a small town district. I had really preconceived, like, "Oh, well this is how kids act here. And this is what I'm supposed to accept." And I had some kids calling me a name, that I won't mention, all the way down the stairwell on the way out. And afterwards I'm like, "Hey, so and so, they were calling me this." I guess that, you know, these are these kids. And they let me know that I should never lower my expectations for any students. That was a really, almost like a very prejudiced, like I'm prejudging these kids, and saying this is how they act. And that I'm supposed to hold them accountable and hang on. And we got our assistant principal and plan, and those girls were spoken to. They're like, "No, if you're going to allow them to start talking to you that way, we're next. And it's not going to be a good thing, Serena. We can't allow this to happen." And we have to model also as educators with each other that no, we have high expectations for these kiddos. We shouldn't just say, "Well, that's the way they are." And it was a little embarrassing to be honest with you, because I never, consider myself a pushover if you will . But it was a really, I would say, I got support, but I also was told, as someone who does interviews, when I did interviews for teachers, and I would say, "Why urban education?" 

[00:15:00] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:15:01] Serena Klosa: I always liked the educators that didn't say, "Well, I want to give back to the community. I grew up in a privileged household and neighborhood. And I want to give back." And I'm like, there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that, but that can't be your why. 

[00:15:16] Ana Torres: Only. 

[00:15:17] Serena Klosa: It can't be your only why. And I would say that I probably came off that way in that moment beforehand. And to me it was, I have to get my why straight. Why I'm in this community, and in the school, and doing what I'm doing. That was a huge lesson learned.

[00:15:35] Ana Torres: All those lessons are important. Had you not had that experience that made you reflective. See the word reflective coming back. That made you reflective. But you also had the supports of the queens. 

[00:15:46] Serena Klosa: Yes. 

[00:15:47] Ana Torres: Helped that whole experience actually be, it sounds like it was, very impactful.

[00:15:51] Serena Klosa: It was. And you know, one other story, if it's OK. 

[00:15:54] Ana Torres: Yes. 

[00:15:55] Serena Klosa: I walked into one of their rooms to ask them a question about something. Maybe it was a five minute conversation. I left. It wasn't anything significant. Maybe an hour later, the teacher came in to me and said, "I have never witnessed something, you being so rude in my... ugh, you were so rude." I'm like, what did I do? She's like, "You didn't acknowledge miss so and so who was in the room and was a teacher assistant." She's like, "You did not say good morning, you didn't say anything. It was like, she was invisible to you." And at first I got a little defensive, I will be honest with you. I was like, "I wasn't being rude, I came in to talk to you, I'm sorry." And she's like, "every role in this school is important. Who are you to think that you're better than that individual?" I go, "I don't think I'm better than them." She's like, "Then you need to walk the talk." And I actually went up to this individual and I said, "Hey, earlier, I am sorry that I did not acknowledge you in that moment." I said my intentions were not bad, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, right. And I see you. I needed that person to know that I do see them. And that also, every time I walk into a school building, I greet whoever I come into contact with, no matter what their role is. From a student, from a kindergartner, to the custodian, to the lunchroom manager, to the school secretary. Every role in a school is very valued and important, and you need to acknowledge and you need to see them. 

[00:17:32] Ana Torres: It sounds like in order to get the most out of a mentorship experience, you had to be willing to be very vulnerable, and accept some of this really honest, and which can also sound like honest feedback, but criticism at the same time. 

[00:17:47] Serena Klosa: Oh, yeah, I mean, it was personal.

[00:17:49] Ana Torres: It probably stung a little bit, and I can imagine some of our newer educators that are listening to this having a hard time with that, because you're even admitting you did. 

[00:17:58] Serena Klosa: Yeah. 

[00:17:59] Ana Torres: For those that may have a hard time with that, what's your message to them about handling critical feedback?

[00:18:06] Serena Klosa: I would say, I mentioned earlier, it was personal. 

[00:18:10] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:18:10] Serena Klosa: I would say those people who are in a position to give feedback, try to depersonalize it. Because when it's personal, you're not necessarily hearing the overall message that is being sent. As the person receiving feedback, try not to take everything personal. And think about, again, I'm all about that word reflective. I used to say every kick in the butt is a boost up. 

[00:18:33] Ana Torres: I like that! I like that. 

[00:18:34] Serena Klosa: Yeah. You might get kicked in the behind, and it may hurt, but it's a boost up. Think about how can I grow from this? And don't get defensive. And even though inside you immediately go into defensive mode, try not to verbalize it, because it's going to prevent you from receiving that feedback in the future. And you may not think you're getting defensive, but we feel it. Those of us who are giving you that , and we're like they're not hearing me at all. I also feel strongly about feedback should be given in person.

[00:19:07] Ana Torres: Agreed. 

[00:19:08] Serena Klosa: So those of you who are listening to this and feel like, we're living in an age now where we get to send a quick email and all that, tone is everything. Everything. Too much can be misread. I've misread a text or an email. Then what happens? I go to, "Hey, what do you think? You read this." And that's not professional either. I would say if it's that important to provide feedback, then it should be done face to face, or a Google Meet, or Zoom. I'm not saying that we can't necessarily do things virtually, but it makes a difference.

[00:19:40] Ana Torres: There has to be some type of dialogue. 

[00:19:43] Serena Klosa: Exactly. 

[00:19:44] Ana Torres: But I like that, because I think having honest, critical feedback is very important. You have to know how to give it and you have to know how to receive it. We'll be right back with much more from my conversation with Serena Klosa. Remember, after I hang out with Serena, I'm going to be joined by classroom insider, Eric Cross, who's going to share some tips for bringing Serena's wisdom into the classroom.

[00:20:12] Eric Cross: I had a friend say, "Feel your feelings so that you can think your thoughts." And I think that's important, right? 

[00:20:17] Ana Torres: Yes. 

[00:20:18] Eric Cross: It's OK if you get that initial reaction, but look for the truth in it. And seek out the feedback. I think the teachers that do that grow the fastest. 

[00:20:26] Ana Torres: That's coming up later. Now, back to Serena Klosa. We're going to take it back. Let's back up a bit, Serena. How did you end up as an educator? Tell us a little bit about your story. 

[00:20:42] Serena Klosa: Well, I am a first generation college graduate. I grew up with a large Italian family. I have five sisters. There's no brothers. I don't want to give the perception that education wasn't valued. It definitely was. Our parents did expect us to go to school, if you will, but past high school was never an expectation. And, for some reason, I was the weird one. Some of my sisters haven't done post secondary education in different areas or whatnot. I always knew that my trajectory was to go to college. Now, I dabbled in some other things, I was a musician. I was in band as a younger person. And I thought, "Oh, maybe I'll be a band director, a band teacher. Maybe I'll do this. Maybe I'll do that." I was a young student, if you will. I started kindergarten at age four. At the time, the cutoff was a lot later than it is currently. As I entered my junior year in high school, I was like, I'm ready to move on. So I graduate high school at the age of 16. And my mom allowed me to, because she goes, "I think you should be a nurse." And I was like, "OK, yeah, I'll be a nurse." So she allowed me to graduate, thinking that I was going to go to college to become a nurse. So she signed off on it. Well, after like my first semester, I'm like, "yeah, I'm going to be a teacher." And , that's one reason why I'm a science teacher is because I took so many science courses with nursing. And for some reason, I was always really good at teaching others. I talked about my time as a musician. I could teach people how to play instruments and whatnot. And so I went on to school, graduated with an elementary education degree, ended up getting a job right out of my student teaching in a suburb way north. And yeah, I think I had a great experience, but I felt there was more personally. I wasn't necessarily happy living in that area. So I was like, "I think it's time to go to a more urban setting," if you will. And I never thought I would have so much joy in what I did each and every day. 

[00:22:50] Ana Torres: I love the word joy. I love when folks use the word joy. 

[00:22:54] Serena Klosa: Yes. And when I interviewed for my first teaching job in the district I'm in now, and this is something that my principal used to quote me on, and I was like, I wasn't even aware at the time that I said it. And I've heard other people say the same thing. "My teaching is not something I do, it's who I am." 

[00:23:10] Ana Torres: That's right. 

[00:23:11] Serena Klosa: And he said, "the second you said that, I wanted to offer you the job." I've never considered it work. It's who I am. 

[00:23:17] Ana Torres: It's who you are. 

[00:23:18] Serena Klosa: Now, don't get me wrong. I obviously needed to make a living and whatnot. I've had easier days and I've had harder days, but, especially when I was in teaching, there was never a day that I never felt that I made an impact, a positive impact, on a life of a child. 

[00:23:35] Ana Torres: Even on the bad days, huh? 

[00:23:36] Serena Klosa: Even on the bad days. I I've experienced the death of students. I think we talked about like the first student I lost to violence, you know, um, gun violence. ,And I used to have a routine every day with my eighth graders that I would take them down the stairs, and I'd give them some worldly advice, and then let them go. Well, it happened to be career day and I was exhausted. And I rammed down the stairs, and I'm like, "Go ahead." And the student, her name was Vanessa, she looked at me. "No advice today?" I'm like, "No, we're good. We're good. Just go." And that was the last words I ever spoke to Vanessa. And I, I share that because, you know what? Cause I got lazy one day, and I, listen, me not giving them advice it wasn't like I caused anything to happen to Vanessa, but I have regrets. 

[00:24:26] Ana Torres: What impact has that had on you? 

[00:24:29] Serena Klosa: I don't stop the routines that make a positive impact on kids. 

[00:24:33] Ana Torres: No matter what. 

[00:24:35] Serena Klosa: No . What, no matter what. Like when you talked about even on those bad days, yeah, even on those bad days, I'm going to say my goodbyes in a way that I, I get some... like, I don't have closure with Vanessa. 

[00:24:46] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:24:47] Serena Klosa: Right? Because I didn't say it. I don't have closure. And I, I think about this student all the time. She never leaves me, because she was a student that had immense potential. Immense. I mean, that day, I'm going to tell you, her career was teaching and she dressed up like me. 

[00:25:07] Ana Torres: That particular day. 

[00:25:08] Serena Klosa: That particular day. And like, look, I'm gonna get a little bit emotional here, right? 

[00:25:13] Ana Torres: And it, well, I mean, it's a podcast and sometimes, there are things that we discuss that are real and personal to us. And I think sharing that story even to this day, it pulls at heartstrings, because I think that's why you continue to do the routines that you do. Because you never know how important what you say or that routine is going to be to that child. 

[00:25:36] Serena Klosa: Relationships matter. So, I'm gonna say, and my staff would do the eye roll, because I used to say this to them all the time, we're in the relationship business. And I want to say, it was that moment that showed me that. That you know, OK, bye, it's the end of the day, bye, bye, bye. Oh, I got career day done, check mark type of thing. But my relationships are what matter. And when you do make a mistake, if you have a good relationship, people forgive you better than when you don't have a relationship and that trust. You can instill change. Like I mentioned earlier with the Queens of the Third Floor, I built a relationship with them before I tried to open my mouth and want to do something different, if you will. So from there, I had always thought leadership would be, you know, my route. But you know, I did take some time. I had twin boys. 

[00:26:29] Ana Torres: Twins! 

[00:26:30] Serena Klosa: Twin boys. Yes. 

[00:26:32] Ana Torres: All right. Knocked it all out at once?

[00:26:33] Serena Klosa: Knocked it all out at once. I always say that sometimes your personal life does impact who you are as an educator. And when my boys turned around 2, I noticed that one of my sons was regressing in his developments instead of moving forward. And, well, long story short, at the time he was then diagnosed with autism. And it then gave me a new advocacy, as far as being that advocate for students with disabilities. I also now felt what it was to be a mom. We used to have these, Oh, I can't believe this parents in denial. They don't know. You know, at the IEP table, being that parent that stands on the other side of the table, even as an educator, knowing all the verbiage, and all the big educational this, that, and the other thing, I now have this empathy that I never had before. And so, I felt that I really wanted to go into leadership positions to help and build on that advocacy and to support students with disabilities, just like my own son. 

[00:27:31] Ana Torres: I think I shared with you, my son has severe ADHD, which obviously impairs some things at school for him. And not always has felt smart. Being on the other side of that IEP table is humbling. But one of the things that I think I realized when I became a parent, and when it became apparent that my child had different gifts. We're going to say that. Different. Different gifts. I had to literally have kind of a self talk with myself, you know, because we as parents struggle with that. Like, I want to make sure my son is provided everything he needs, so he never is made to feel like he's not good enough. Smart enough to be at the table. And so I know that we share that in spirit, and I really appreciate that you talked about your son. You have a different level. I think we were sympathetic. I think we became empathetic with having our own children. 

[00:28:22] Serena Klosa: Every IEP, I would leave, and I would cry probably at every IEP, because I knew everything that we were doing. And I knew everything the school was doing. One IEP, there was, "Oh, he's got no more autism." Even labeling him with autism. I fought tooth and nail, "No! They're going to put a ceiling on his development," and all this thing. And so now, when I became a principal, and I saw a parent going through this, I would have to tell my staff, "You need to show them grace. They're not ready to hear this yet, but we're gonna write the best darn IEP." No matter what we label him as, I don't care if we call him, you know, rose, he's a rose. OK. We're still going to write goals, and have a plan, no matter what that label is. 

[00:29:05] Ana Torres: What a life you've had. What a trajectory you've had. Not all of our listeners are going to be lucky enough, Serena, to have the Queens of the Third Floor. Actually want to meet them. What advice do you have for how listeners out there can like find their own mentors and build relationships with them? 

[00:29:29] Serena Klosa: I would say as a new educator, your first mentor, I would first think about your school leader that hired you. Your principal. And then ask. Asking for that mentoring is not a sign of weakness. It's saying, I want to be better and I want to grow. And sometimes if you don't ask, they're not going to do it. Not every district has a formal mentoring program. Not every district has the capacity to give you the type of support you need. Also, continue to learn. I did two fellowships, one that was out of state where I was traveling every month. I would grab onto any type of professional learning that I was provided and be all in, if you will. As a teacher, it shows that you're continuing to grow. But, if you want to be a leader, if you're expecting your teachers to continue to learn, you also have to be a learner too. So never stop being a learner. Also, if you are assigned someone that you do not trust, then that is not your mentor. TRUST is a must. 

[00:30:36] Ana Torres: Trust is a must. 

[00:30:38] Serena Klosa: It is. It is. And trust is a two-way street.

[00:30:41] Ana Torres: Absolutely. 

[00:30:43] Serena Klosa: So when I say that, you say, "Well, I don't trust them." Well, do they trust you? Are you forthcoming when they give you a task to do? Are you doing it with fidelity, and handing things in on time? Trust is a must. It's a two-way street. 

[00:30:56] Ana Torres: It matters. It really, really matters. 

[00:30:59] Serena Klosa: And I would also say that, going back to relationships within the school and this might sound silly, but the person that you have to have the best relationship with is the school secretary or whoever.

[00:31:10] Ana Torres: I was thinking the same thing. The school secretary for sure has all of the goods, right? Has all of the important information. 

[00:31:18] Serena Klosa: I used to introduce my school secretary, I would say, "I am the principal, but Mariana is the boss." She could pick up the phone and would know who the parent is by the voice. And we had at one point almost 900 students. She knew families. And I trusted her with my life. And i'll tell you a little tidbit. When I went to interview for this principal position, I had done a little research, and I had found out that he had renamed the street after her. So I walked in and I was like, "Oh, are you Mrs. So and so? I saw that they renamed the street after you." And blah, blah, blah, bleh, bleh, bleh. She told me afterwards, of the many candidates that had come into that building to interview, I was the only person who not only acknowledged her presence, but actually engaged in a conversation with her.

[00:32:06] Ana Torres: That's great. 

[00:32:07] Serena Klosa: And that makes a difference. 

[00:32:10] Ana Torres: And as we kind of come towards the end of all of this, because of that 37 year career that you've had, I'm thinking of our listeners who are out there that are early in their teaching careers. What would you want them to know about potentially entering administration? I can tell you, I thought I was going to be a teacher for life and in a classroom with kids, but ended up as a teacher, as an interventionist, as an instructional coach, as an AP, and a principal. And all of those experiences were very valuable to me. So, what advice would you have for teachers that are early on in their careers, if they're thinking about potentially entering that administrative world?

[00:32:55] Serena Klosa: That's a great question. Early on for me, I headed up the science committee at my school. And then in my district, we have something called local school councils. So I was elected to the local school council, and I learned everything there was about school budgets and governing and all that. That was an invaluable experience for me, if you will. But I'm all about, like I said earlier, slow and steady. 

[00:33:17] Ana Torres: Slow and steady, y'all. 

[00:33:18] Serena Klosa: I always went to the next level when I was like, you know what? I'm getting kind of bored, or I feel like I'm coasting. It's now time for the next challenge. But every position I left, I left with a positive legacy. You don't want to be that person that's in a position too long. Then when you do leave, it's like, "Oh, that person showed up years ago, they were burnt out, or they got kind of cranky, or they spent all their time in their office." Cause I've always said "People during the day. Paper after people are gone." And , as I coach some people who are thinking about going principals, I'm like, "Hey, slow it down. Wait for that perfect school for you. You'll know it." Like you just don't want the role to have the title. 

[00:34:02] Ana Torres: Right fit, right fit. 

[00:34:03] Serena Klosa: It's gotta be the right fit. If you can't find the joy... I used to talk about this all the time where I would, I always would have a power song on right before I would go to my school when I was a principal, and I would turn the corner, and when I would turn the corner, I'd look up and I would see my school. And again, I'm getting a little emotional here, but I would look up at that school. I would say, "I cannot believe I am the principal of that school. That's my school." I would say though, you have to go all in. If you're going to do this, it's not a job to dabble in. It is a job with enormous responsibility, and one not to be taken lightly. But in all of my roles, the role of principal has definitely been the most rewarding.

[00:34:49] Ana Torres: Most challenging, but also the most rewarding. And it sounds like you've already given your words of wisdom. If you're gonna go, go all in. Go all in as a teacher. Go all in as an instructional coach. Go all in as an assistant principal, as a principal, as a deputy chief. You've got to be all in, because it is a great responsibility that we have when you're entrusted with children. 

[00:35:15] Serena Klosa: And don't forget where you came from. There were times I had to shovel snow. There are times I had to help sweep the lunchroom. There are times that I covered a classroom so my teacher can have a prep. That gives you so much credibility. And it shows how much you care about others. And again, we're in the relationship business. 

[00:35:34] Ana Torres: Yeah, I never asked my staff to do anything that I wouldn't do. 

[00:35:37] Serena Klosa: Absolutely Absolutely. 

[00:35:40] Ana Torres: Man, this has been like, we've cried, we've laughed, we've had some emotional rollercoaster ride here, but it's been amazing. Before we go, would you like to shout out your district?

[00:35:55] Serena Klosa: I would be honored to shout out. I work for the Chicago Public Schools. 

[00:36:00] Ana Torres: CPS! Let's give it up. Let's give it up. Thanks so much for your time, and continue the amazing work you're doing at Chicago Public Schools. Thank you, Serena. 

[00:36:13] Serena Klosa: Thank you for having me. 

[00:36:16] Ana Torres: That was Serena Klosa, longtime Chicago Public Schools teacher and administrator. We recorded this conversation with Serena late last year. Since then, she let us know that she's moved on to a new experience. Exciting gig at CPS, Deputy Chief Officer in the Office for Students with Disabilities. Congratulations Serena! Now listeners, let's call up classroom insider, Eric Cross.

[00:36:52] Eric Cross: Is that better? Does that sound better? My students were using the mic, because they're all doing podcasts now. It's a great way for students to show their learning, but I need more mics. That's the thing. 

[00:37:00] Ana Torres: You have to have the real gear. You have to have the real gear. Well, how are you? How's it going? 

[00:37:04] Eric Cross: Good. I've been doing well, uh, relatively speaking. Today's pajama day. So, you know, I have the pajamas on. And I have, of course, my Shrek Crocs. Very limited, but that gives you like plus five engagement in the classroom when you're wearing the Shrek Crocs. So I gotta do what I gotta do to get my kids engaged. 

[00:37:21] Ana Torres: I miss those days. And I'm sure your students will enjoy it. So I just had an amazing conversation. And man, I tell you, I felt like her messages were perfect for getting the new year started on the right foot. 

[00:37:37] Eric Cross: Listening to it. She talked from different perspectives. She's been through, I think she was deputy... 

[00:37:43] Ana Torres: Deputy chief of schools. Yes. 

[00:37:45] Eric Cross: That's a, legit title. Deputy chief of schools. I guess I was like, big time. 

[00:37:49] Ana Torres: Pretty big, yeah, big time. 

[00:37:51] Eric Cross: But she's also been battle tested and vetted in the classroom. I think with 13 years in the classroom. 

[00:37:55] Ana Torres: 13. Yes. 

[00:37:57] Eric Cross: The first thing, listening to it as a classroom teacher, this is one that's close to my heart because we also have a lot of new teachers on my campus, but it was maintaining routines with students. I can't emphasize enough how important that is. When you have a whole group of students, being consistent with positive interactions is critical. But then also having routines for everything you do. I have them for arriving, being dismissed, asking questions, going to the bathroom, answering the classroom phone. When you have these routines in place, it actually makes students much more comfortable, because they know what to expect, and they know what's expected of them. And I think, as a new teacher, it's really easy to get loose on those things, or to start that in the beginning and then kind of fall apart as time goes on. And, as I tell other teachers, I say, "Look, if you can hold tight on the small things, then the bigger things will take care of themselves." I had a mentor say to me that "What you accept becomes the norm." There's a couple of routines, positive ones, that I do all the time. One of them is called weekend updates. It's really simple, but every Monday before you can start instruction, I say, "Weekend updates," and students raise their hand, and they just share their weekend. And one of the routines and rules in that is that other students aren't allowed to talk. They have to track the speaker and just listen. And we spend five minutes doing it. And whether you stayed home and watched Netflix or you went out shopping with your family, it's just a time to connect. And then for me to validate what my students are doing, and they always look forward to it. Another one is positive Post-it notes. Simply having Post-it notes, personalized messages, encouraging messages to students or a colleague, and just leave it on their desk or hand it to them directly. I mean, it goes so far. 

[00:39:23] Ana Torres: Well, and she spoke to that in a very passionate way. One of the things that I just never, ever skipped in my classroom is greeting my kids in the morning. Every single morning is something that was really important to them. And when they would see that, I would always do it, but maybe I was having an off day like, "Ms. Torres. Good morning." And so, what you give is also what you receive. That set the tone for the day. 

[00:39:49] Eric Cross: Absolutely. 

[00:39:49] Ana Torres: Now that was your first takeaway. 

[00:39:51] Eric Cross: Yeah. The second is seek feedback and reflection, and stay humble. She said, try not to take everything personal. And ask how can I grow from this? And she talked about it from two perspectives. She said, depersonalize criticism and view feedback as an opportunity for improvement. And then when giving feedback, also depersonalize it. So if I'm giving feedback to a mentee or newer teacher, I need to be intentional about being tactful and depersonalizing it. But, it's also important on the other end, if you're receiving it, not receiving it through that kind of personal ego lens. Especially as teachers, it's common for us to feel it like, "Oh, you're attacking me, or you're coming at me." But you don't grow if you think about it that way. And it's OK to feel that way. I had a friend say, "Feel your feelings so that you can think your thoughts." And I think that that's important, right? 

[00:40:40] Ana Torres: Yes. 

[00:40:40] Eric Cross: It's OK if you like get that initial reaction, but look for the truth in it, and seek out the feedback. I want you to specifically look at this, and what can I do? How could I improve? I think the teachers that do that grow the fastest. 

[00:40:51] Ana Torres: Agreed. And I liked that. She also kind of, in my opinion, capsulized what you just said. Seek out feedback. Seek it out, and be reflective about it. Sometimes we don't seek it out, because we're so scared of what's going to come out of that feedback. Because we want to be perfect in everything that we do. But, to your point, those who seek out the feedback and are reflective about it are actually the best teachers. And become the best mentors, right? 

[00:41:23] Eric Cross: Right. 

[00:41:24] Ana Torres: Now, do we have a third, Eric? 

[00:41:27] Eric Cross: We do. And it's going to sound really simple, and it is. And like, "Cross, why are you saying this?" I'm going to say it, because I've had multiple superintendents and leaders bring this up in conversations that I've had. And I've observed it myself. And it's such a light lift. But it's not commonly done. And she said, "Acknowledge and value every role in the school. Every role in the school is very valued and important, and you need to acknowledge and see them." We, teachers and leaders, don't realize how... and that's not even just our job, right? So many different industries. It's important to treat everyone in your school, staff, with respect and recognition. Greet staff members by name on your way to your room and when you're leaving. You're saying, I see you. I see you. Ana, good morning. It's good to see you. 

[00:42:12] Ana Torres: Yes. 

[00:42:13] Eric Cross: And we may not realize how that makes people feel, because we may not need it. And we see things through our own lens. Like, I'll be honest, I don't necessarily need that, but it makes me feel good when it happens. And it goes towards me creating the culture that I want. I want staff to feel seen. I want to feel seen. And if they feel good, and you're pouring into them, even just with recognition, that goes into your students. 

[00:42:36] Ana Torres: We have to model that. Yes. I just had a friend of mine, literally tell me something today. People just walk past her. She's always the one initiating. And that was always me. And that gets to a point where it's exhausting when you are always, "Good morning. Good morning." 'Cause it's like, am I the laughing stock around here or what? Because how hard is it to just say good morning to someone, right, as you pass them? And how hard is that to do? And so, I would model like we want our children to do the same. Then we have to be the models of that. So that hurts when people just walk right past you. And it's like you said, you don't feel seen. That's a very inherent thing that we all want is to be seen and heard. In some regard that you matter to people, you know? 

[00:43:20] Eric Cross: Everything you just said is so great. That's it. Like you just hit on it. Like it hurts. 

[00:43:25] Ana Torres: When you said, "Well, I'm kind of that person that doesn't really need it." And that's fine, but someone else might need it. It's not about you. And it got exhausting when I would say good morning to someone and they just looked at me like, "Why are you always happy all the time?" And I'm like, "I'm not." I'm intentional about it, but it's not always an easy thing to do. 

[00:43:44] Eric Cross: And I know I usually have three, but can I add on to this? Like just one more thing. 

[00:43:47] Ana Torres: You can absolutely add on. 

[00:43:49] Eric Cross: OK. This is something that I've been intentional about doing since the school years started and it's end of the day check-ins. Before leaving for the day, stop by one colleague's room or office and ask, "How was your day?" And just listen attentively. It's amazing what it does, not only for your relationship, but for that other person. And then when you get it back, oh my gosh. Now there's this connection, this energy, this positive experience, this culture that you're building at your school. But we have to be intentional about it.

[00:44:16] Ana Torres: I remember a practice I had as an administrator is every morning my calendar was blocked for the first 30 minutes of my day. I went and checked in on every single class. And the teachers thought I was checking in on the kids, but I was really checking in on them to make sure that they were good. Because I knew if I said, "How are you doing? Do you need anything?" And they're good. Then I know that my students would be good too. So amazing takeaways. And as always, Eric, it was amazing to chat with you. And I hope that you have a great pajama day with your kids. 

[00:44:51] Eric Cross: Thanks. It was a great interview. Thanks to Serena, and I hope you have a great day as well. 

[00:44:55] Ana Torres: Thanks for listening to Beyond My Years from Amplify. I'm your host Ana Torres Our classroom insider is Eric Cross. Our music is from Andrew Smolin. Next time on Beyond My Years, I'll be joined by Simone McQuaige, an award winning educator from Prince George's County Public Schools in Maryland. Simone is an expert in pushing for positive change at not just the school level, but the district level.

[00:45:25] Simone McQuaige: When you're making change, people need something to anchor those learnings on. And so, we needed to support them by putting information in their hands. 

[00:45:35] Ana Torres: That's coming up next time. You can get that episode, as well as all the episodes from season one, by subscribing to Beyond My Years on the podcast app of your choice. You can help more people find us by leaving a rating or a review. You can also help us out by letting a couple of educators in your life know about the podcast. We're grateful for any help spreading the word about the show. Our website is amplify.com/beyond-my-years. Until next time, remember to reach out and say thank you to a seasoned educator who has shaped your life. I am Ana Torres. Thanks so much for listening.