Beyond My Years

No broken children—only broken systems, starring Kareem Weaver

• Amplify Education • Season 1 • Episode 12

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Today on Beyond My Years, host Ana Torres soaks up wisdom from Kareem Weaver, an educational powerhouse who has spent over 30 years working toward the end of illiteracy. Kareem levels with Ana about the hard truths of education reform. Together, they get vulnerable about the personal costs they’ve paid in being committed to their work and the belief they share that no teacher should have to make those sacrifices. Kareem also discusses his time working in juvenile detention facilities, how a frightening diagnosis changed the way he approaches education, and how administrators can best help create sustainable careers. Taking all those lessons back to the classroom, Ana and Beyond My Years Classroom Insider Eric Cross talk about preparing more than just lesson plans, developing focused skill improvement, and making the connections between academic success and behavior reform.

Show notes:

Quotes:
“Where do we want our young people to go? What opportunities, what paths do we want them to have access to? Reading is a gateway for life.” —Kareem Weaver

“If you can't grow people, what are you doing in a seat? If you're an administrator and you can't grow teachers' practice, then you're a manager, not an administrator.”—Kareem Weaver

“Hope is wonderful, but that's not a strategy. You have to be very specific about what you're going to fix, what you're going to address, and what you're going to master.” —Kareem Weaver

“There are no broken children; there's broken systems.” —Kareem Weaver


[00:00:00] Kareem Weaver: A lot of people will say, "Oh, well, great teachers are born. You got to be born to this." OK, I understand that. I understand the thinking behind it, but I want to let newer teachers know you can develop the skill to teach. 

[00:00:15] Ana Torres: This is Ana Torres, and welcome to Beyond My Years from Amplify. On each episode, I speak with long-time educators who share chronicles from the classroom, and some lessons they'd like to pass on to newer teachers. I know not everyone is fortunate enough to have access to mentor teachers. That's why we're so excited to bring you the voices of incredible seasoned educators. We've had such an amazing journey on Season 1. I know I've personally learned so much. And I want to thank you for coming along with me. We've heard from educators from all different subject areas. Math, science, theater, English language arts, biliteracy, and beyond. They've worked in all different places. Remote Alaska, Philadelphia, rural Tennessee, Puerto Rico, to name a few. But I hope you've heard their shared love of education, and commitment to passing along their wisdom so that future generations of educators can extend their reach. This is going to be our last episode in Season 1. We're so excited to return later this year with Season 2. We're already cooking up some great ideas, trust me. So stay tuned to this feed and to Amplify social media channels. In the meantime, we have one more amazing guest, Kareem Weaver. Kareem is a true literacy champion. He's the co-founder and executive director of the nonprofit FULCRUM. He's been a frequent guest on Science of Reading: The Podcast. And he was recently featured in "The Right to Read" documentary. Before that, he was a long-time teacher and administrator in Oakland. On this episode, Kareem and I talk about his experience teaching in a juvenile justice facility, lessons from one teacher's dramatic turnaround, and how educators can avoid some of the personal costs that Kareem and I both experienced during our teaching careers. Here is my conversation with Kareem. Today's guest is a big deal in the education space. He's the co-founder and executive director of the nonprofit FULCRUM, which is committed to ending illiteracy. Wow, that's huge! And he is the second Vice President and Education Committee Chair for the Oakland NAACP. When it comes to educators fighting for literacy in this country, Kareem Weaver is at the forefront. And as you can tell from my voice, I am so excited to have him with us today. But long before cameras and microphones were following him around, Kareem was in the classroom. And he's been patiently waiting. I'm giving Mr. Kareem his flowers. Let's welcome Kareem Weaver to Season 1 of Beyond My Years. 

[00:03:28] Kareem Weaver: I appreciate that. Very gracious. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to the conversation. 

[00:03:33] Ana Torres: Me too. So I'm going to start with some really tough questions for you. OK. Are you ready? 

[00:03:39] Kareem Weaver: I'm ready. Let's go. 

[00:03:40] Ana Torres: How many years have you been an educator? 

[00:03:42] Kareem Weaver: Let's see, since '96, actually '94. So that is 31 years. I first started off when I was in college, actually, at Morehouse College. I did part-time work subbing and different things. And started a literacy, I don't know what you call it, I guess it was a nonprofit. I don't even know what the profit status was. We started a program to help kids connect with their parents who were incarcerated, and literacy became a big part of that. So between that and the teaching, that was around '94, '95. So, it's been a while. 

[00:04:13] Ana Torres: It's been a while. So, you are a seasoned educator. Because you know I tend not to use the word "veteran." That makes me feel old. So you are seasoned Do you feel like you're seasoned, Kareem?

[00:04:26] Kareem Weaver: You know, I think so. Yes, and I think the reason why I feel seasoned, I don't mind saying veteran. 

[00:04:32] Ana Torres: OK. 

[00:04:33] Kareem Weaver: Because I've seen things come and go. You hear people talking about things, and you have to translate it. What are they talking about? Oh, they're talking about the thing that we did. 

[00:04:41] Ana Torres: Yeah, that thing. 

[00:04:42] Kareem Weaver: So, that's how you know you've been around a long time. 

[00:04:46] Ana Torres: Right, right. But you do feel seasoned. Or, I'm sorry, you feel like a veteran educator. 

[00:04:52] Kareem Weaver: I do, because I can remember when things worked. And I find so many people today that have no remembrance of when things worked. It's like we have amnesia as a field. So, you know, I remember tutoring kids. I remember, you know, Marva Collins. I remember different things that the federal government tried to do. State governments try to do. So, I have a perspective about what worked, what didn't work. Then this amnesiac fog that seems to have covered the field, where we have a five-year range of sight in any direction. Maybe that's just life. But, that's partly why I feel like a seasoned educator. The other reason why I feel like a seasoned educator is because my kids, my students, are grown now. I just had a student text me Sunday morning. Her daughter is in second grade. And she was texting me and basically saying, "Hey, you know, Mr. Weaver, what's going on? The way they're teaching her how to read, am I crazy? Like, that's not how we did it. What is this? And the kids can't read in a room." I was like, "Oh, yeah, no." And that's the last group of the babies that I taught. So just going through that makes you realize, "Oh yeah, I've been around a minute."

[00:06:05] Ana Torres: Do you think that newer teachers should be optimistic about things, that things are going to get better? 

[00:06:12] Kareem Weaver: No, not necessarily. This is not a default thing where the default setting is if you just do your job, things are going to work out. Unfortunately, that's not the way the system's set up now. We have ingested, lock, stock, and barrel, some things that just ... you could work a whole career, 35 years in the classroom, and things will not work out if some things don't change.

[00:06:35] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:06:35] Kareem Weaver: That's the universities. That's the school districts. That's the school site. And so, you have to be vigilant about it. In fact, in some places you're fighting against the grain. Where everything is telling you to go this direction when the research consensus and the brain science says and the results say go that way. 

[00:06:54] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:06:54] Kareem Weaver: So you can't just go with the tide. I would love to say, "Listen just do everything the way they're telling you to do. Everything's gonna work out." Well, that depends on what they're asking you to do. We have to be real about this. 

[00:07:04] Ana Torres: What can I tell you? I appreciate that reality check, Kareem. And listeners, we're going to talk about some of those strategies and tips that can make a difference. I do want to reiterate, again, you're a busy man doing great things, and you've been very generous when it comes to sharing your time and your story. Whether that's the recent "Right to Read" documentary, I know you've done a lot of podcasts, you've been in front of a lot of groups. Being a, what I call, a literacy champion. Why do you do all of that, Kareem? 

[00:07:37] Kareem Weaver: I'm trying to get a movement started. I'm trying to wake people up. I'm trying to sound the alarm, you know? I feel like the watchtower. I'm just, you know, the kids can't read. And what else am I going to do? And I'm at the age now where I really don't have much patience for things that aren't going to make a difference. And I found myself in a place where, let me just sit back and reflect. What are the high leverage things I could be doing right now? How do I want to spend my time? I've had those moments before in my career. And I just got to a point where it's going to be more than me. It's going to take a whole nation of folks that are willing to move in the right direction. But somebody's got to sound the alarm. And it's going to be for a season and a reason. Like I tell people, I do the podcasts now, but it ain't going to be much longer. This is just to get us started. You got to take the baton. Everybody got to take the baton and run with it. But I just want to be able to tell the truth and be loud about it. And make sure that people know. And, frankly, it's not just about the schools. It's also about the universities. It's about publishers. 

[00:08:40] Ana Torres: Agreed. 

[00:08:40] Kareem Weaver: It's about lawmakers. It's about community groups. It's about groups that are advocating for specific demographics. There's a lot that has to get dealt with. And I'm just ... It's not that I don't care. Cause I know I get reverb, and people say, "Oh, you can't say that." Man look, at this age. 

[00:08:59] Ana Torres: You can say it! You actually, you're on my podcast, Kareem. 

[00:09:03] Kareem Weaver: It is what it is. I just, you know, the kids can't read. I worked in a juvenile justice facility. And because I grew up in South Richmond during the crack epidemic, I've seen the implication, I've seen the downstream results of this stuff that we've theorized about. And I just have little to no patience for it.

[00:09:23] Ana Torres: And it seems like throughout your career, you have been this truth teller champion. And as you look back over your 31 years, I think we calculated it at 31, what do you think is the key to your long ... and I don't know, I don't want to use the word happy, but to your long and very illustrious career? What's the key? What has been the key for you, Kareem? 

[00:09:48] Kareem Weaver: So the key has been faith. My belief in God. I didn't start off in education. When I went to graduate school in South Carolina, University of South Carolina, I was in for clinical community psychology, and I had done some work in education before. I had done some substitute teaching. I'd done all that stuff. So I knew I wanted to be a teacher, or I knew I was supposed to be a teacher. Let me put it that way. But teachers don't make no money. 

[00:10:18] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:10:19] Kareem Weaver: So I was like listen, I'm a first generation college student. I need to put some money in my pocket first, come back to the hood, open grocery stores, do whatever I could. I have my little plans and everything. And then I'd get to teaching, but God had other plans. So, I basically had a medical thing, a heart condition. I passed out singing in the car at church and they found out I had something that there's no cure for it. It's called LVH. Basically, my heart is super thick, it's really big, and so the blood can't get in and squeeze out the way it needs to. Bottom line was there's no cure. We don't know how much time you got left. You can have a heart transplant. And I was like 24 years. I was young. I was like, man, I ain't gettin' no heart transplant. Y'all tripping. Let me get up out of here. 

[00:11:03] Ana Torres: You're like no, nobody's cutting me up. Ain't nobody cutting me up.

[00:11:08] Kareem Weaver: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm too young for this, man. I was married at the time. I was like, nah, I can't do it. But the good part of that was it taught me to get about the business of doing what you're supposed to do. If I believe God told me to go teach, you better go teach. You don't know how much time you have left. So that changed everything for me. It was not so much, I'm going to do it when, it's I'm going to do it as long as. You know what I mean? 'Til the wheels fall off. As long as. Yeah, as long as. So my teaching reflected that as well, which I would not recommend for everyone. It is not good for your health to teach like there's no tomorrow, but that's how I approached it. How were you able to get in your class years? Kids did this and you didn't have, you talked to kids for all this time. And it's because I was teaching like my hair was on fire every day. 

[00:11:57] Ana Torres: Every day. 

[00:11:58] Kareem Weaver: Every day. 

[00:11:59] Ana Torres: Every day. 

[00:11:59] Kareem Weaver: But, we have to get the profession where people can do their job professionally, responsibly, and in a way that's healthy and sustainable to get results for kids. You can't have people out there. Listen, it cost me. It cost me a lot, and I don't wish that on anybody. Teaching like that, staying up all night, and weekends, and coming early and through the summer, and, man, just teaching however many kids we had in the classroom back then. Forty kids. I think 35 was the limit, and I always had anywhere from 40 to 45 kids in my class, because I couldn't say no. And making sure everybody got what they need. And we had to make our own curriculum. And when I first started in Oakland, I had to make my own curriculum. So I hear people all the time online talking about, "Oh, well, trust teachers. And we should make our own curriculum." I'm like, "Who are you talking to?" 

[00:12:48] Ana Torres: I want to hear more about, and I think our listeners want to hear more about, your experience teaching in the juvenile justice center. Because you taught in a juvenile justice center, right? 

[00:12:58] Kareem Weaver: Right. So there's two things. 

[00:13:00] First of all, when I was in Atlanta we had a program called SCIP, which was Supporting Children of Incarcerated Parents. And SCIP, we would do a bunch of things to support kids whose parents were locked up. And one of the things would be they would write letters and do all this stuff. And what we found out was that it was actually counterproductive. They asked us to stop doing that, because, well, because the people who were incarcerated really couldn't read. So you get a letter from your child, this long, two-paged letter with all this stuff, and you can't read it. So people were making compromises and deals on the inside to get people to read these letters for them. And it actually became a dangerous situation. If you can't read and you're a child, what would you do? What would you give up? What would you sacrifice? Who would you connect with? Who would you fight? How much would you pay? So it became a kind of currency. Literacy is currency inside a jail. So that started my thinking about this type of stuff. When I got to South Carolina, I worked for this place called Broad River Road Facility. And so I was there as part of my assistantship for my clinical psychology program. And I was an administrator there. But everyone's understaffed, so you've got to teach. And I realized very quickly, they can't read. Not only can they not read, but there was a level of acceptance to the problem, meaning of course they can't read. Yeah, well, what are you going to do? There's violence, there's trauma, there's racism, there's prejudice. All these things, there's crime, there's this and all. So what do you expect? 

[00:14:35] Ana Torres: Deeper societal issues. 

[00:14:37] Kareem Weaver: People took those issues, and they filter them through their own understanding. So they thought that the reason they couldn't read was because of the issue, right? They saw those issues as a cause. 

[00:14:49] Ana Torres: As barriers, right? 

[00:14:50] Kareem Weaver: Yeah. Yeah, this is the reason why. And so, my thing was first of all, y'all not teaching. I know how to teach. Y'all not teaching. So I'm gonna take a class and we gonna 

[00:15:00] teach. And I saw how quickly once kids know that you know what you're doing, they change. I don't care how hard the kid is, because to them it was like a lifeline. Like, we got one here. We got a live one here. He's actually teaching, and I'm not embarrassed in his classroom. So, the secret is out and it's good. I can learn. 

[00:15:21] Ana Torres: Wow. 

[00:15:22] Kareem Weaver: And, matter of fact, I had a kid, a young man, who asked me, because he was supposed to be released in a week or so, whatever, two weeks, I don't know. He's like, "Weaver, can I extend for like just a few more months? I'm learning to read. I just need a little more time." I was like, "Man, I can't really, that's above my pay grade. I can't really, I don't determine how long." And then he said this, "What I gotta do to extend for a few more months?" What he was really saying was, don't make me have to knock somebody upside the head to stay in here longer. I'm learning to read, don't mess this up. That's really what he was saying. 

[00:15:53] Ana Torres: Wow, in so many words. 

[00:15:55] Kareem Weaver: Yeah, so I was like, "Listen, no, no, no, don't go there. Let me work on it for you." But that's how desperate he was. 

[00:16:00] He was trying to stay IN jail. IN jail. 

[00:16:02] Ana Torres: To finish that. 

[00:16:03] Kareem Weaver: Yeah, so anyway, so that's where I really saw what was possible. 

[00:16:07] Ana Torres: And that is the point of how literacy is freedom. 

[00:16:11] Kareem Weaver: I hate to even think about this, but upon reflectionwith hindsight, I realized how smart that young man was. How intelligent was he? Because we can busy ourselves doing a lot of other things, but when you learn to read your life trajectory changes DRASTICALLY. And he understood the game, at that age and at that condition in life. He understood what was at stake. 

[00:16:38] Ana Torres: Yes. 

[00:16:39] Kareem Weaver: And I've come to realize, I think a lot of our people, a lot of young people understand more than we think they do. They know how serious it is. They may not have the full context, but they know this is a big deal. But after a while, you just kind of give up. I've seen kids give up. And when they give up, other things start to happen. 

[00:16:57] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:16:57] Kareem Weaver: And we start to focus on the downstream effects of giving up, rather than the root cause of them giving up. Whether it's dyslexia, or as my friend Margaret Goldberg calls it, dysteachia. We're just not teaching them this stuff. 

[00:17:07] Ana Torres: We're not teaching it right. I agree. 

[00:17:10] Kareem Weaver: We're not teaching it right. For me, one of my reflections is being very clear about the stakes and the pivotal moments for children. This is a trajectory defining skill in your life. 

[00:17:24] Ana Torres: We'll be right back with much more from Kareem Weaver. But first, here's a preview of my conversation with my classroom insider, Eric Cross. 

[00:17:34] Eric Cross: When people start feeling that academic momentum, you can keep them in that productive struggle longer, and you're going to see classroom behaviors that are negative decrease. 

[00:17:43] Ana Torres: That's coming up later. But now, let's get back to Kareem Weaver. I want to bring us back to when we first connected, you talked about the importance of sharing examples of success. So I'd like for you to talk through a story of success that you had as an administrator. You supported a particular teacher who was struggling. And I think this could be an inspiring example of how much growth is possible. So set the scene for us. I see you already like going back. Oh, I remember that story, right. 

[00:18:18] Kareem Weaver: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This was in Oakland, years ago, and I believe she taught third grade. And when I came to this school, I was an assistant principal. I was given some high functioning teachers to evaluate, some who were kind of in the middle, and some who were struggling. And this one was struggling. In fact, I remember my supervisor saying, "Listen, whatever you do, just keep your paperwork right." 

[00:18:42] Ana Torres: Ooh, we know what that meant. 

[00:18:44] Kareem Weaver: Yeah. Yeah. You just make sure your paperwork is right on this one. So that was the context, all right, just leave it like that. But my thing was if you can't grow people, what are you doing in the seat? If you're an administrator and you can't grow teachers practice, then you're a manager, not an administrator. I consider myself to be an educator. So let's go. And going into the classroom. Yeah, it was chaotic. It was what you expect when you have high-needs kids. In an environment where they're not getting what they need, and a teacher who wasn't prepared by her prep program, and curriculum that doesn't match up, and leadership doesn't, like all that stuff rolls down hill. 

[00:19:21] Ana Torres: But you chose to recognize those things and made a decision to support vs. get rid of her.

[00:19:28] Kareem Weaver: Well, I'm not saying that you're not gonna have to go We got to get your teaching up. 

[00:19:33] Ana Torres: You still got to do the job. 

[00:19:34] Kareem Weaver: That's right. Kids got to learn period. 

[00:19:36] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:19:37] Kareem Weaver: And my job as an administrator is to help you help them. So maybe we both got to go. If I can't do the job, and you can't do the job, maybe we both got to go, right. But the kids got to learn. So, my framework wasn't about getting her out. The paperwork is going to be right. I'm not going to cut corners on that. I'm going to keep it a hundred. This is going to be solid. But my goal is to grow your practice. I want you to be the best teacher in the school. I'm not blowing smoke anywhere. This is straight up. And so we sat down, and we made a plan, and I told her I don't want to do the woe is me session. Where oh the kids this, and the parents that, and I don't know what to do. You don't have time for that. Neither do I. Neither do the kids. So here's this framework. We use something from John Saphier, it's Research for Better Teaching. They have a pyramid. And on this pyramid, each of the little sections on a pyramid, each block, is an aspect of teaching. Whether it's momentum, or motivation, or whatever the different factors are, they're all there. And you click on it and it opens up a whole thing. It's like on this pyramid, you got about 20 to 25 things. I want to pick three that we're going to master this year. 

[00:20:43] Ana Torres: Just three, right? 

[00:20:44] Kareem Weaver: Just three, just three. There's a lot more of this than three. And I'm going to pick one, and you get to pick two. So, we identified these three things. I wanted to pick the highest leverage thing that you could do. I want to make sure that was on the table. The other things I figured that she would pick good stuff, and she did. And so we were able to focus. So it began with providing clarity to her, because when you're struggling as a teacher, it's like going to the dentist and you have a bad toothache. You really don't know where it hurts. It just, it's all over here. 

[00:21:21] Ana Torres: Correct. 

[00:21:21] Kareem Weaver: But you need the dentist to calm that pain down, so they can say, "Oh, it's that one." 

[00:21:25] Ana Torres: You had to identify what the bigger issue was. 

[00:21:28] Kareem Weaver: Right. So for her, the momentum of things, the planning of things, having extensions of safety nets, momentuming the pace, the movement and all, just the flow of the classroom, all that type of stuff. And then we had to get down to the brass tacks of teaching and learning. The kids have to know they're learning something. They have to feel it. They have to feel the pressure. That if I don't sit down, I'm going to fall behind. 

[00:21:51] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:21:51] Kareem Weaver: It's not about them calling my mom. They will call my mom. But more importantly than that, if I don't sit down and be quiet, the class is moving that way. The momentum is strong. The processes and protocols are in place. The learning is clear. The teacher's focused. Well, let me sit down. I don't want to be the one left out. 

[00:22:09] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:22:09] Kareem Weaver: Kids feel that. Even young children. So, her practice began to turn around. It was a beautiful thing to see.

[00:22:17] Ana Torres: But you had a plan, and you involved her in the plan. Do you think that's important to note? 

[00:22:25] Kareem Weaver: Having a plan? Yes. They have to be involved in the plan. I have done it in ways where the person did not pick. As I grew as an administrator, there were other situations like that where I said, "We're going to do these two right here."

[00:22:38] Ana Torres: And why with her did you decide not to? Yeah. 

[00:22:41] Kareem Weaver: Because I needed to empower her. 

[00:22:42] Ana Torres: OK. 

[00:22:43] Kareem Weaver: Her professional confidence was in a tank. She didn't believe in herself. So I needed to empower her. And knowing that there are a lot of different things that we could work on, and I had the highest leverage one already on the table, so we're gonna be alright. 

[00:22:58] Ana Torres: And what was that one? Kareem, what was that high leverage? 

[00:23:00] Kareem Weaver: So there was preparation. 

[00:23:02] Ana Torres: Ah, the prep. 

[00:23:04] Kareem Weaver: Prep. How do you prepare? Like I needed to own that with her. What's involved in preparation? If you don't get a handle on that, then you're just hoping. And hope is wonderful to have, but that's not a strategy.

[00:23:16] Ana Torres: Exactly. 

[00:23:17] Kareem Weaver: You have to be very specific about what you're going to fix, what you're going to address, and what you're going to master. And so every day I wanted her to come in ready. When you're ready, you show up differently. 

[00:23:29] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:23:29] Kareem Weaver: And I'm not just talking about ready with your lesson plans. I mean ready where you know how you're moving, where you're not wasting time, energy, or space, or money going down to the store to buy a bunch of stuff. That's not going to do it. You have to be ready. 

[00:23:42] Ana Torres: Well, and ready to know when to pivot too, right? 

[00:23:45] Kareem Weaver: Yeah. 

[00:23:46] Ana Torres: She became successful with this partnership. How did that happen, Kareem? 

[00:23:52] Kareem Weaver: Day by day. There was no magic bullet. She just applied to things that she was being taught. I gave her a lot of feedback. I was in her classroom every day. Like I was in everybody's classroom every day. So, she didn't feel like she was some sort of a pariah. And administrators have to normalize observation and feedback. 

[00:24:08] Ana Torres: But I bet you gave her honest and consistent feedback, right? 

[00:24:12] Kareem Weaver: And constructive, useful feedback. We had this template set up where here are the three things. Here are the things we're looking for. We both discussed these things. How they should show up. There's some comments, but I can come in and just get to work. Oh, boom, boom, boom. Is it here? Is it not there? Is it here? It's not there. I'll listen for a little bit, but my showing up wasn't an issue. It was actually a good thing. If teachers tighten up when you get there, that tells you something. 

[00:24:37] Ana Torres: Exactly. 

[00:24:37] Kareem Weaver: They should be like, "Oh yes, man, I'm going to get some feedback." So, she began to see the growth. Nothing inspires teachers more than student growth. When they see their practice actually showing up in the lives of children. After a few months, a couple of months, I didn't have to tell her too much. Now, she was calling me, "Hey, Mr. Weaver, can we do this? What do you think about this?" And she just  grew, and grew, and grew. By the time the school year ended, she was one of the higher functioning teachers in that school.

[00:25:05] Ana Torres: Wow. 

[00:25:05] Kareem Weaver: By the end, I put her at number three. She just needed certain things unlocked. Now, To her credit, she worked her butt off. 

[00:25:12] Ana Torres: OK, that's what I was thinking, that not only the success of students, but her own feeling of confidence, and having you as a person that was an ally, right? This profession can be rough. And I think we've talked about trade offs before. Like, my divorce was a trade off of this job. Of working myself to death. Where I was not taking care of business in my household. 

[00:25:40] Kareem Weaver: Right. Listen, friend, this is not a comfortable topic, but it's one we need to get into. My first marriage was a casualty of this as well. My ex wife, may she rest in peace, she said, "You weren't married to me, you were married to those kids." What could I say? And took all of that. It took every bit of, in that environment where I was at in Oakland, it took all of that. And no teacher should have to make that deal. 

[00:26:07] Ana Torres: Agreed. 

[00:26:08] Kareem Weaver: You should not have to make that deal. It doesn't need to be that way. 

[00:26:11] Ana Torres: Exactly. 

[00:26:12] Kareem Weaver: But in my context, similar to yours, I was like, well, I can't ethically walk away from these children. I can't ethically not give them what they need. 

[00:26:19] Ana Torres: It's the burden of... you were compelled. I felt for me that was a ministry. 

[00:26:23] Kareem Weaver: Yeah, exactly. 

[00:26:24] Ana Torres: But again, that's a hard trade off. Time with my child. My ex husband literally said the same thing. "You're working yourself to death for what? Because at the end of the day, your mental state, your health, your physical state is withering away." But I'm like, "I have to be the one to do this." 

[00:26:47] Kareem Weaver: Right.

[00:26:47] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:26:48] Kareem Weaver: Yeah. Broken systems. Poor leadership. Inadequate curriculum. There are a few things that go around along with it. 

[00:26:54] Ana Torres: Exactly. 

[00:26:55] Kareem Weaver: And it's also one of those reasons why I tell people you need to have good leadership, you need to have good curriculum, and you need to have some boundaries. That's OK. I remember being a principal. And so I took over a school in Oakland. One of the schools was high needs. It was the lowest school in the district in terms of academic achievement. And by the time I got there, and I told the staff, I was like, "Listen, yes we want to turn things around, but I don't want your lives to fall apart as a result of it. And there's certain things I want you to put in place as guardrails. Whatever birthday your kid has, if it's May 30th, the 30th of every month, you know, you better get out this building every month. Do something. Your spouse, whoever the important people are in your life, yourself." But then I said, "Along with that means we cannot waste time. I don't want you in this building past a certain time. 

[00:27:47] Ana Torres: Right! 

[00:27:48] Kareem Weaver: I understand you're committed to the cause, as am I. So we have to be efficient with what we do. 

[00:27:54] Ana Torres: Efficient and effective, yeah. 

[00:27:56] Kareem Weaver: One of the things I learned as a result of my experience as a teacher, was I had to put in some systems to protect myself and my family from myself and my calling at work. 

[00:28:08] Ana Torres: This is advice time. Advice tips from Kareem. 

[00:28:11] Kareem Weaver: It is advice. Here's some tips. 

[00:28:12] Ana Torres: How you can avoid the trade off. 

[00:28:14] Kareem Weaver: That's right. So as an administrator, one of the things I did was I decided to coach my daughter's softball team. She was a kindergartner. And, it wasn't so much that I love that sport, but I had to get out of the building. You can't have a bunch of five-year-olds waiting for you at the park and you not show up. You got to get out of there and go. So I did that. Go get involved in something else. First of all, it's fun. You'll love those things. But in addition to that, it compels you to get up out that seat and go do something else. 

[00:28:44] Ana Torres: But I imagine spending time with dad was also valuable for both of you. 

[00:28:49] Kareem Weaver: Oh, absolutely! We have fun in the car together, riding places. Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:28:53] Ana Torres: Yeah. I became my son's team manager for soccer. And I'm not a soccer gal. For that reason, like, that allowed me to say this is my stopwatch.

[00:29:04] Kareem Weaver: Yeah. What I would also say for teachers, that's for administrators, for teachers ... 

[00:29:07] Ana Torres: For administrators, for teachers. Yes. 

[00:29:09] Kareem Weaver: Listen, you have to find a place where you have a principal or an administration team that knows how to grow people's practice. 

[00:29:19] Ana Torres: As they interview, they should be interviewing the school.

[00:29:22] Kareem Weaver: That's right. That's right. It goes both ways. They're interviewing you, you're interviewing them. Who have you grown? How have you seen the teacher's practice evolve over your leadership? You need someone who considers it part of their duty to grow people's practice, that they have that reputation. And it'll be very clear. Talk to the staff, they'll tell you. People get a reputation, not just the principal, but if there's a coach or an assistant principal, whoever sees you teach, you have to have a culture of growth. In addition to that, you need to choose where you work. 

[00:29:50] Ana Torres: Absolutely. 

[00:29:51] Kareem Weaver: And what's the curriculum that they use? And I'll tell you this, not all curriculum are cut the same. You need to find a place that is using materials that are usable. 

[00:30:01] Ana Torres: Quality, yes. 

[00:30:03] Kareem Weaver: Quality. 

[00:30:04] Ana Torres: Evidence-based. 

[00:30:05] Kareem Weaver: If someone is asking you to use materials that don't work, you are in effect making bricks without straw. You need to find a place where they're going to be using things that have proven to work, and that you can fully implement those things within the structure they have. In other words, there are some schools where they'll give you the prep time and they'll give you whatever you need so that you can be prepared to do what you have to do. There's other schools and districts where they're like, "Listen, here's the stuff. There's no study that says this thing works, but we expect you to be ready. And we expect you to do it on your own time." They may not say it's on your own time, but by the fact that there are no structures in place, they're expecting you to get ready at home. 

[00:30:48] Ana Torres: And that's where those trade off issues come into play. 

[00:30:51] Kareem Weaver: That's right. 

[00:30:52] Ana Torres: Now, I'm going to be wrapping up. I'm curious, you've given some tips and advice already, is there a piece of advice you wish you could go back and give your younger self, Kareem?

[00:31:10] Kareem Weaver: Probably a few things. 

[00:31:13] Ana Torres: OK. 

[00:31:13] Kareem Weaver: One is better self care. You got to walk, drink water, eat right, get some sleep. I understand sometimes you stay up all night. I get it. There's a project to do, something. I understand that BUT, man, it will wear you down, on the INSIDE. You can't get blood from a rock. So you have to take care of yourself. That also includes whatever your spiritual tradition is, follow it. If you're a church going person, well go. You know, I'm so tired from teaching. I just can't get up. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Spiritual, financial, physical, mental, all of that. If you need to go to therapy to handle past trauma, if you need to go to church to handle some spiritual stuff, if you need to have a financial game plan set in place so you can focus on teaching and learning, self care has got to be on the FRONT of the agenda, not the back burner. 

[00:32:00] Ana Torres: I agree. Better self care.

[00:32:02] Kareem Weaver: Next, after that, even before I step foot into any classroom, I would say you have got to find an educator prep program that is good at teaching people how to teach reading. 

[00:32:13] Ana Torres: Ooh. 

[00:32:13] Kareem Weaver: They're not all cut the same. Because if you find the wrong program, you're going to have to unlearn some stuff. 

[00:32:20] Ana Torres: Exactly. 

[00:32:21] Kareem Weaver: Before you learn some stuff. And it's harder to unlearn things. The third piece of advice for early career teachers, I can't emphasize this enough, you can learn almost everything else when you get there, but this reading, it's worth taking a little more time to get this piece right. 

[00:32:41] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:32:42] Kareem Weaver: And it kind of goes back to the last one. You have to make that your number one priority. Because when you do, your experience as a teacher changes fundamentally. Your peace of mind, how you show up as a teacher, your level of stress, your enjoyment of your day-to-day, and your effectiveness. You got to find the right graduate school, and make sure that when you step foot in that building you know how to teach a kid to read. Now, there are some things you can do to make that happen. You can volunteer at some of these places. I don't want to name the programs, but there's some programs where you can do some things and get paid and they'll train you. 

[00:33:16] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:33:17] Kareem Weaver: You got to have that in spades. I'd also make sure that I know how to take feedback well. You got to be able to take feedback. And I'd also say there are some dynamics that show up for us as educators that have to do with our stuff. Race, class, sex. 

[00:33:36] Ana Torres: All of that. Yes. 

[00:33:37] Kareem Weaver: I was a principal. There was one other Black guy on the teaching staff. So that means I'm leading mostly white women and Latinas. There are some dynamics there. Can I work with women productively, constructively, in a safe way where they feel secure and safe. All that goes into it as well. So, if I have any work to do on my own self and how I interact with other groups and other people, whether I'm on the admin side or the teacher side, I got to do that work. I might have to go get therapy. I might just want to know how to talk to people and communicate with people. Just so I know how to go through things and that people aren't getting on my nerves all the time. So I'm not stressed. 

[00:34:21] Ana Torres: Well, and let's be clear. We all individually always have to check our own biases, because we all have them, right? 

[00:34:27] Kareem Weaver: That's right. 

[00:34:27] Ana Torres: So we have to check ourselves, right? Great pieces of advice. I really liked what you said to take feedback well, all feedback. Even though I've taken feedback from people, I didn't always necessarily feel they valued or respected me. I took it. I took it all. I think that is very important. And I also want to take you back, because you talked about the experience with this teacher. That success story, right? What do you think newer teachers should take from that experience? 

[00:34:59] Kareem Weaver: When I was a teacher, there was a debate about whether great teachers are born or are they made. 

[00:35:04] Ana Torres: Ooh. Here we go. I love this one.

[00:35:07] Kareem Weaver: You ever hear that before? You ever hear that? Are they born or are they made? 

[00:35:09] Ana Torres: I've heard of this, yes. Born or made. 

[00:35:11] Kareem Weaver: And a lot of people will say, "Oh, well great teachers are born. You gotta be born to this." OK, I understand that. I understand the thinking behind it, but I want to let newer teachers know you can become a master teacher. You can develop the skill to teach. There are some discreet skills that you have to master, and you can do it. It takes discipline, focus, thought, partnership, health, and being determined. And study. But you can do it. And listen, if I hadn't seen it happen again, and again, and again, I wouldn't say it, but she wasn't the only teacher. This was my specialty as a principal was supporting people's practice, which was good for me, because that widened my available talent pool of people. Because I can take  somebody you think, "Oh, you don't think they can teach." I see she has character. Give me a person with character, and discipline, and we gonna get it. But what I would just tell people is that it is possible. Don't let anybody tell you that you're a throwaway teacher, or whatever that is. Uh, uh, uh, uh. No. I'm not saying it's gonna happen overnight, but you get better a little bit at a time, with very specific goals in mind, and you master those three. OK, I'm gonna go to the next three. You get those three things down, you go to the next three. And before you know it, man, you're like, wait a second, I'm teaching these people under the building. Like I'm handling it! And it's such a good feeling. Just don't get an ego about it after the fact and start looking down on people. Help somebody else too! 

[00:36:40] Ana Torres: It's been an honor and a privilege having you. I can talk to you all day. 

[00:36:44] Kareem Weaver: Likewise. I thoroughly enjoyed myself. 

[00:36:47] Ana Torres: Loved having you on this podcast. We always give the guests a chance to shoutout their home district. And I know that you don't necessarily work at a home district. Who do you want to shoutout?

[00:37:00] Kareem Weaver: Actually, I'm going to shoutout two. So my home district is Oakland Unified School District, and I'm very proud of Oakland Unified's progress that they've made. Yeah, it was Superintendent Kyla Johnson-Trammell and her team. They have done a great job. They started four years ago. We had eight demands of them, and they haven't done all, but they have come a long way. A long way. And every inch of progress should be celebrated. They've made several yards of progress. Long way to go, but shoutout to them for the work that they've done fighting on behalf of kids. Also, Jefferson County Public Schools in Mississippi. The superintendent out there, Adrian Hammitte. I had a chance to go out there and ... It was just phenomenal. Phenomenal! I saw a kindergarten teacher there, if I could clone him, I would. And the same ... I think I saw a third grade teacher, like every classroom I went in was popping. They just, they get it! They've been at it for a while. The leadership is solid at the site level and at district level, and to see that happening consistently across the classrooms, they are doing great things over at Jefferson County.

[00:38:08] Ana Torres: Jefferson County you got some accolades! Oakland Unified School District and Jefferson County in Mississippi! 

[00:38:17] Kareem Weaver: That's right. 

[00:38:17] Ana Torres: Thank you for shouting them out. And thank you so much Kareem for your time, for your wisdom, for your advice and your tips. Thanks so much for joining us today. 

[00:38:26] Kareem Weaver: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. 

[00:38:30] Ana Torres: That was Kareem Weaver, co-founder and executive director of FULCRUM. For much more from Kareem, check out his appearances on Science of Reading: The Podcast, and visit fulcrumliteracy.org. Let's bring on classroom insider, Eric Cross. Oh my gosh, Eric, I can't believe that this is our last episode of Season 1. I think we picked a great guest to close it out with Eric. 

[00:39:01] Eric Cross: I listened to it with so much enthusiasm. I went back and relistened to it, because there was just so much that was in there. 

[00:39:08] Ana Torres: We started with Joyce and we're ending with Kareem. I think those are two amazing bookend guests. So let's get right to it, Eric. What's your first takeaway? 

[00:39:20] Eric Cross: Well, it's one of many, but the first one that really resonated with me was essentially he was saying, "Prepare thoroughly, and show up differently for students." And he said, "Preparation is a high leverage practice," and to go deeper than that, he said, "Be going beyond lesson planning." He was talking about how you move through the classroom. And when you're ready, you show up differently. 

[00:39:40] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:39:40] Eric Cross: Knowing your differentiation strategies, your transitions, being prepared for challenges in advance. When you know your students, after a while you know where the pushbacks are going to come, having gone through those steps. In another part, he actually went into detail about having your own life. How important that was spiritually, financially. And we don't hear guests go there a lot, but I'll tell you, he got REAL. But coming back to it, being prepared in so many aspects of life outside of the classroom makes you better in the classroom.

[00:40:10] Ana Torres: Definitely intertwined. That was literally one of those things that was almost a non-negotiable. You've hit it on the head. You show up differently for kids when you prepare more than just lesson plans. Loved how he told that story about how he helped this teacher really get through a year, and she showed up differently, and she literally performed differently. And I feel he felt success with her and her journey. 

[00:40:36] Eric Cross: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:40:37] Ana Torres: What's your second takeaway, Eric? 

[00:40:39] Eric Cross: You kind of touched on it a little bit, and it's focus on a few specific teaching skills. First, there's so many different things you have to learn how to do, but intentional practice, like teaching excellence, comes to picking a couple things. So two to three teaching skills. And he talked about this when he was talking about mentoring the teacher. He even went into talking about those unteachable things. This teacher that wasn't feeling success had character, integrity, the things that you can't teach. And he knew that with the right coaching, he can get this teacher to where they would be empowered in there. He talked about having a teaching, kind of, program. And this goes back to, are you familiar with Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours to master something? 

[00:41:21] Ana Torres: Yes, yes, yes. 

[00:41:21] Eric Cross: So It's not just 10,000 hours. It's 10,000 hours of focused, intentional practice. You could do something for 10,000 hours, it doesn't mean you can be a master at it. And so going back and saying, "As a teacher, I'm going to focus on classroom transitions. I'm going to focus on student engagement. I'm going to focus on checking for understanding techniques. That's just what I'm going to do. And I'm going to do that for three months, and I'm just going to drill down on that. And then after three months, transitioning to something else." 

[00:41:48] Ana Torres: Right?! Two or three that are manageable. He also allowed this teacher to have input. 

[00:41:54] Eric Cross: Yes. 

[00:41:54] Ana Torres: The teacher also owned it, and also had say in what she wanted her growth areas to be. And I think that was super impactful. 

[00:42:02] Eric Cross: Teacher voice and buy in. Just as important as student voice.

[00:42:06] Ana Torres: Yes. Teacher voice equals buy in, in my opinion, right? Now, I know you have a third Eric. 

[00:42:12] Eric Cross: In this episode, three would be the minimal that I would have. But the next one is ensure academic success, watch behavior transform. So, I loved how he flipped the cause and the effect. He was talking about working with young people that were incarcerated. And the narrative was that these kids, or his babies, or our students are going through problems. That's why they can't read. And he flipped it. 

[00:42:38] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:42:38] Eric Cross: And said, "Without the keys to literacy, the world is not unlocked for you. And so you have this really narrow pathway of things that you can do." And so, when our students come into our classroom, we do diagnostic tests and things like that, but when they come in and they don't feel academic success, oftentimes we see behavioral challenges. And so, for a teacher,  after you've done those assessments and you've figured out where students are, sometimes you need to manufacture wins for students academically for where they're at. And this is something that you don't hear in credential programs because this is the psychology of working with kids. 

[00:43:16] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:43:16] Eric Cross: Even a simple writing activity, where you're praising effort. You have a cool stamp, or the green check mark, or whatever it is. Those little things matter! And so, when people start feeling that academic momentum, you can push them. And challenge them. And keep them in that kind of, what do we call it, zone of proximal development. You can put them in that productive struggle longer. And you're going to see classroom behaviors that are negative decrease. Because they feel successful in that class. I can't improve on what he said. It was just, it was so powerful. 

[00:43:45] Ana Torres: Very powerful for me too. I lived it. I was a middle school ESL coordinator for three years at a school. And there was a student in this class that would act out, at least perception wise. He was, "Oh, the difficult child." The more that I talked to this student, and yes he was in middle school. He couldn't read Eric. And that was the reason of the outburst when I finally got together with folks. I literally was like, "Has no one seen that whenever it's time to read something, this boy acts up this way? He can't read y'all." And so we created alternative ways in order for him to answer questions. And I would sit next to him and say, "You can answer that one. Raise your hand, and answer that one." And he was SO SMART, Eric. This child was super successful when he felt, like you just said, wins. And when I tell you at the end of that year, he was with his chest out. Ready to go. Because he was an eighth grader going to ninth grade, and he's like, "I feel ready to go to ninth grade, Ms. Torres." Sometimes I think we miss the mark of focusing too much on the behavior, not realizing assets every child brings.

[00:44:54] Eric Cross: And just to make this practical for teachers listening to this, when you do your map testing, or you do your diagnostics for literacy, and whatever that is, and you look at the students that have the biggest gap between where they're supposed to be and where they are now, and you overlap that Venn diagram with maybe behaviors that you see in the classroom that. The question I would ask is, "What are you going to do to help them feel academic success? What can you do?" And it might vary year to year. It might vary student to student. I mean, and we're talking simple things. Like I have a canvas slide on my door, and I made like this graphic that says, "Kings and queens: outstanding effort." Not grades. Effort. And their names are up there. It cost me zero dollars.

[00:45:36] Ana Torres: Exactly. 

[00:45:37] Eric Cross: Sometimes you have to be creative. How are you going to create learning opportunities where they experience those wins? 

[00:45:41] Ana Torres: Simple. Costs nothing. And typically, those students probably don't see their names on anything. Thank you for sharing that, Eric. Now, we usually do three. I'm assuming, just by looking at your face, that there's another one coming. 

[00:45:56] Eric Cross: Yeah. And I mean, this brother was a truth teller. And it was [00:46:00] so refreshing, because he was saying the quiet parts out loud. 

[00:46:04] Ana Torres: Exactly. 

[00:46:05] Eric Cross: This is specifically to teachers. Prioritize schools where teacher development truly matters. The right environment can make a difference between thriving and struggling as an educator. And so, choose your work environment carefully. And I know when you're a new teacher, you're like, "I'm just trying to get hired." But once you get to that place where you're in the industry, and you're thinking about the future and professional development. Choose your work environment carefully. Make sure you have access to quality curriculum. He talked a lot about that. Quality curriculum makes a huge deal. And having supportive leadership. And then structures in place that enable effective teaching. So he said, "Choose your spots wisely." I want to say this with a caveat. For those of us who are teaching in schools. They're not perfect. Let's be honest. A lot of them aren't perfect. 

[00:46:52] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:46:52] Eric Cross: We see schools where the kids are the most vulnerable. Also, the schools don't have a lot of these things in place. And there's a cause-and-effect relationship there. If you're there, and eyes wide open, you know what's going on. Maybe you're the changemaker to help institute those things. Maybe there's things that you can do to help implement those things, or create those things from the ground up, or find a supportive network outside of the school that can get you fed that way. Find your people.

[00:47:16] Ana Torres: Well, and when you say that, I think of Simone McQuaige's episode, where she is a change agent and literally found a network. You've got to be proactive and find a network wherever you are, right? 

[00:47:29] Eric Cross: And also, as Kareem said, make sure you take care of yourself. We see you, but we want to keep you there for kids.

[00:47:35] Ana Torres: So, just to recap, our four takeaways are prepare thoroughly, show up differently for students was the first one, focus on a few specific teaching skills first, the third one was ensure academic success but watch that behavior transform, and then, the last one, prioritize schools where teacher development truly matters. Thanks, Eric. 

[00:48:01] Eric Cross: Congratulations on the end of the first season! 

[00:48:06] Ana Torres: Thanks for listening to Beyond My Years from Amplify. I'm your host, Ana Torres. Our classroom insider is Eric Cross. Our music is from Andrew Smolin. Thank you so much for listening to Season 1 of Beyond My Years. If you've missed any of our 12 episodes, or even any of our bonus content, you can find it right in the Beyond My Years podcast feed on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now is also a great time to share the complete first season with your educator friends, and also your colleagues. Beyond My Years is brought to you by Amplify. We'll be back for Season 2 later this year. Remember to stay tuned to this podcast feed and to Amplify social channels for more information. In the meantime, as I have said at the end of every single episode this season, please remember to reach out and say thank you to a seasoned educator who has shaped your life. I'm Ana Torres. Thanks so much for listening.