Beyond My Years

Springing forward and looking back, with Ana and Eric

• Amplify Education

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Today on Beyond My Years, host Ana Torres and Classroom Insider Eric Cross reconnect with three past guests—Fawn Nguyen, Rebecka Peterson, and Simone McQuaige—to explore key challenges from their early teaching days: classroom management, decentering oneself, and time management. Ana and Eric share their own experiences with these common hurdles, then offer a quick look at what’s ahead in Season 2.

Show notes:

Quotes:

" So my biggest mistake early on was needing to have the last word." - Fawn Nguyen

" Something I really struggled with and I actually took me several years to feel confident in how to manage my classroom in a way that like felt good and true to me." - Rebecka Peterson

" Looking back, I realized it would've been so helpful to have learned how to set boundaries for myself and prioritize task, and definitely build time for my own self-care." - A. Simone McQuaige


[00:00:00] Ana Torres: Welcome back! Eric Cross! How have you been? 

[00:00:05] Eric Cross: It's good to be back and we're getting close to the end of the school year, and so all the end of the school year stuff is happening right now. And it's a lot, but it's good.

[00:00:17] Ana Torres: Yeah. End of the school year excitement of kind of ending, but also sadness because, you know, that group of students will be moving on to the next. 

[00:00:28] Eric Cross: Yeah, and it's also, it can be a bittersweet time because you're kind of at the end and there's that side, but then there's also, you're exhausted and there's that temptation. I like to hike, so we always say like, don't drop your pack. You don't wanna take your pack off until you get to the campsite, because once you get it off. It's hard to put it back on. And so this is the time where you kind of want to drop your pack, but, we gotta finish strong. Start strong, finish strong, make it to the finish line and then when we get to the end, then we can relax and get some good rest and recovery over the summer.

[00:01:02] Ana Torres: You always have your hashtag moment. Start strong, end strong. Hashtag y'all. That's what it is for today. Well, I'm glad to be back with you. You know, we've had a little bit kind of, what do we call that? A little hiatus, little intermission time. Right? And so I've had some time to reflect around Season One, and I'm curious how you felt about Season One.

[00:01:26] Ana Torres: Do you have any big takeaways? Well, actually you always have three. What do you have for me today? 

[00:01:32] Eric Cross: Well I think first and foremost, I feel incredibly privileged to be able to listen up close and behind the scenes to these amazing educators. You know, we talk about having a PLC. I got to have my PLC be these amazing people who are supporting students all over the country.

[00:01:49] Eric Cross: And I'm incredibly fortunate because I get to glean from that. But I think the one thing, I'm not gonna have three today, I have one, and it's that the elements that contribute to effective teaching, they look the same [00:02:00] despite our location or our students, or our schools and our situations.

[00:02:03] Eric Cross: Good teaching is good teaching, and yes, we changed certain things, but overall that theme was running through each person that you were talking to. And I think in some ways it was really validating because it felt like certain things, I was like really on the right track. And then in addition to that, it also affirms, hey, it's okay if I'm experiencing these challenges too.

[00:02:23] Eric Cross: And hopefully for listeners, they felt the same way.

[00:02:29] Ana Torres: You know, and I feel the same way you do, and thanks for sharing that. And so, as you can tell listeners, he only had one today. Normally it's three. I'm pretty sure he had more, but he contained himself. I see him getting excited there and wanting to say more. I couldn't agree with you more. For me personally being able to sit down and like literally have conversations with such amazing people, I learned a lot like meaning like the title of this particular podcast is Beyond my Years, and I honestly sat back and learned so much from every single individual and came away with some amazing takeaways. And so, for me, the main takeaway was, things aren't so different. You know, I have been in this field for almost 30 years, have been in and out of the classroom for most of that time.

[00:03:20] Ana Torres: I'm now removed about two, three years, but the same thing holds true. Educators who are in this profession want to do the best by kids. But they also wanna be supported in order to do the best by kids. So I saw kind of a theme for me of how, you know, having this podcast be something exciting for folks of listening to all of these people that have been in this field for a very long time and getting advice that still holds true. Advice that I used to get 25, 30 years ago still holds true today.

[00:03:53] Ana Torres: That was my takeaway. 

[00:03:54] Eric Cross: Yeah. Good advice is timeless. And we were able to hear so much and I think that might be why I'll let you share. I think it resonated with a lot of people. So much so that we have something to celebrate now.

[00:04:11] Eric Cross: I'll let you share, I'll let you share it. 

[00:04:13] Ana Torres: So listeners, you can share. But I mean, do your drum roll. Drum roll. 

[00:04:20] Eric Cross: Drrrrrrrr rrrrrr. That's my drum roll. 

[00:04:23] Ana Torres: Wow, that was the longest drum roll. Yeah. I wish she really had drums for real. So listeners, as you can tell, Eric and I are very excited.

[00:04:31] Ana Torres: And before we tell you what we're up to today, we wanna share some just very exciting news that we got last month. Thanks to your overwhelming support, Beyond My Years was honored with the People's Voice Award at the Webby Awards in health, science, and education category. I'm gonna say that again. Because of your unwavering support, Beyond my Years was honored with the People's Voice Award at the Webby Awards in the health, science, and education category. And can I tell you, just as I look at Eric and just the journey we've had together just in one season to have an award already? We are so grateful to all of you for listening, for passing on links, for getting your families, your students, and voting for us.

[00:05:24] Ana Torres: We really wanna thank you and we did this together. How do you feel about this very important accolade that we got just after one season? 

[00:05:33] Eric Cross: I think the first thing, I felt deeply humbled by it because I feel like we have created something in order to serve the teaching community, the educators that are out there, formal and informal, and to win an award, it's like, I was like, "Oh, you all really like us. You really like us for that!" You know what I mean? Like it felt like that. And I just wanna thank all the educators and students, my students, families, all the people that were there. You know, so many things that you do in the classroom, the magic that happens, most people don't get to see.

[00:06:04] Eric Cross: And I think of us as a mouthpiece in a way to amplify teacher voices and educator voices. And it just felt really good. It felt like we were connected and we're all really uplifting each other. And so thanks everyone.

[00:06:21] Ana Torres: Yes. Thank you so much. And again, know that Eric is just such a valuable part of all of this. You know, yes, I'm host, but being able to sit with him every single episode and kind of unpack, and him being boots on the ground, I want to thank you too, Eric, for putting your amazing knowledge, your charisma, and your amazing twist to all of the things that were discussed.

[00:06:44] Ana Torres: So I wanna thank my Classroom Insider as well. 

[00:06:47] Eric Cross: It's been a pleasure and I look forward to Season Two.

[00:06:52] Ana Torres: Yay. So now that's what we are excited about, as you could tell. But let's get back to what we're really here. You're probably wondering what's going on today? What is this episode about? Right? So we decided to check back with a few of our Season One guests 'cause we wanted to see how they were doing, number one, and what sort of reaction they got from being on the show.

[00:07:16] Ana Torres: We're also going to have a question for each of them. Right Eric? What are we gonna be doing with this question? 

[00:07:23] Eric Cross: Yeah, we want a question that's going to kind of give you a insight into what we're gonna talk about in the next season. So we've handpicked, selected the folks that we think, uh, have a lot to say on some of these topics.

[00:07:36] Eric Cross: And so I'm gonna give you a little glimpse into what's gonna happen coming in Season Two.

[00:07:43] Ana Torres: Yeah. So we're gonna give you kind of a little tease, right? A little teaser. A little teaser trailer for that. But you'll, you're going to have to stick around until the end of the episode to hear more about new developments for Season Two.

[00:07:56] Ana Torres: Yeah. hang 

[00:07:57] Eric Cross: tight for that.

[00:08:01] Ana Torres: Okay. That was pretty good. I like that. So you're there, Martin? Huh? 

[00:08:06] Eric Cross: He might, I think he's, he's still recording because he is, he's doing the, uh, the backup, but he type, he typed in the chat that he got. Okay. 

[00:08:13] Ana Torres: Ah, okay. So we're okay. Alright. So, Ooh, this, you know what, I can't, this cer Season One guest, Eric.

[00:08:25] Ana Torres: One of my favorites, actually, they're all my favorites. Isn't that like what mom and dad say to all other kids? You're all my favorite. 

[00:08:31] Ana Torres: I'm with you, 

[00:08:31] Eric Cross: I feel like in a situation, like it's legit. Like how do you pick a -- I think it needs to be fair to say we have multiple favorites in different categories.

[00:08:38] Eric Cross: Like can we say that? 

[00:08:40] Ana Torres: We do. Yes. Multiple favorites in different categories because each one of our guests were amazing and had great things to share. But this first season guest, who is Fawn Nguyen. We're checking back in with her,  longtime math educator, and she joined us for episode three.

[00:09:05] Ana Torres: Now, I was excited to tell Fawn that her episode really resonated with listeners. Here's what she had to say about how that episode resonated with folks. Here's what she had to say. Let's take a listen to that clip. 

[00:09:24] Fawn Nguyen: I didn't think, you know, whatever I have to say, it's worth anything. But, so thank you so much.

[00:09:29] Fawn Nguyen: I mean, I definitely love what I do, so that I guess resonates and, uh, yeah, because ... 

[00:09:35] Ana Torres: It did. 

[00:09:36] Fawn Nguyen: I do kind of say the way I see it, so, yeah. 

[00:09:39] Ana Torres: Yeah. 

[00:09:40] Fawn Nguyen: Alright. 

[00:09:40] Ana Torres: And I think that's why that episode was a good one. And I can tell you that our listeners would love to hear like what is happening with Fawn now? What is happening in the Fawn Win world right now?

[00:09:54] Fawn Nguyen: Thank you. Well, I've been good. Still traveling and speaking with teachers and districts. I try to get into the classrooms, which is my favorite part. And also my favorite part is I get to leave like an uncle or grandma of visiting, right? You get to leave. I don't have to grade papers or call parents. So, yeah, it's like a truncated version of being a teacher. I forgot to mention, I just turned 60. Honestly, if you know me at all, it's just, I do not care for birthdays. I just don't celebrate it. I don't, you know, they just come and go to me. It's just another date. I'm glad to be alive. But this was a big one 'cause I turned 60 this past Monday.

[00:10:38] Fawn Nguyen: And, so growing older is wild. I was telling my colleagues that 60 honestly feels like the new 70. 

[00:10:50] Ana Torres: What did you think of Fawn's response? 

[00:10:54] Eric Cross: I love the fact that she gets to leave like a grandparent and she doesn't need to deal with the stuff that she needs to grade. I was like, you know, I love being the classroom, but she just hit on the two things.

[00:11:03] Eric Cross: I just imagined her going in, doing her thing, sharing her wisdom, and then she's like, "All right. Take care, everybody!" You know, give a couple candies out to some students and then, "All right, bye." She's in those, like those prime years right now, just really still connected to education, but she doesn't have to deal with some of the stuff that makes it a little bit more challenging.

[00:11:23] Ana Torres: Yes. But the fact that she, although she's not currently in the classroom, sees so much value going back and dropping her wisdom nuggets, I do appreciate that about her. You know, Fawn is very dedicated and very passionate about the work, so it was really great, to have her back and to share. And she was very humble too, with, I didn't really realize how much, you know, how she didn't really realize how much her episode resonated with folks.

[00:11:50] Ana Torres: And I told her, you know, real talk, great storytelling always makes for good listening. But then there was a question that we had for every single Season One guest we brought back, and so let's take a listen to the question that I asked everyone. Let's take a listen to what I asked Fawn: What's a topic or a challenge that was especially relevant to you when you are a newer teacher?

[00:12:19] Fawn Nguyen: Classroom management. Classroom management was the most challenging part for me. And I think part of the challenge, I think had to do with the way I was raised. I grew up going to a Catholic school in Vietnam where we got hit routinely. So it was strict, ridiculously so. And so once I started teaching, of course corporal punishment was never a thought on my mind, but I did want respect. And there was definitely tension between wanting that respect and also not really knowing what I was doing.

[00:12:52] Fawn Nguyen: And I remember being surprised by how freely American students talked. And I loved it. I mean, I wanted that. I wanted kids to feel comfortable and to speak up, but at the same time, I also needed some sense of decorum. Right? Like, can you not talk when someone is talking? Can you raise your hands once in a while?

[00:13:11] Fawn Nguyen: I was struggling to find that balance. Speak freely, yes, but also respectfully. And so my biggest mistake early on was needing to have the last word. 

[00:13:22] Ana Torres: And you always bring, I mean, this is from even the prior episode, not to interrupt you, you always bring up the word mistake, right? I would venture to say your area of challenge, right? Because when we mistake is so like final, right? You were able to come back from that. I would use the word challenge if we could. 

[00:13:42] Fawn Nguyen: Thank you for reminding me. 

[00:13:44] Ana Torres: Softer word, Dr. Whit. I was gonna call you Dr. Wynn, too. Softer word, Fawn and softer words. Reframe.

[00:13:49] Fawn Nguyen: You can call me doctor. 

[00:13:51] Ana Torres: Dr. Wynn. 

[00:13:53] Fawn Nguyen: Right. Thank you. So my, my biggest challenge, thank you for that, was on needing to have the last word. And, you know, I'm in charge, right? Because I feel like, okay, because I'm in charge, I'll show you who is in control. And of course that was no way to have a relationship with students or with anyone really.

[00:14:11] Ana Torres: Give me a time of when you had a hard day and that hit you and you're like, wait a minute, maybe I need to do a little better in this area. 

[00:14:19] Fawn Nguyen: Okay. I thought this was a short podcast because there's not enough time for me to tell you all the hard days. I can think of several, but yeah, there was one a student just being disrespectful, right? To me, it was disrespectful, and it had to do with a lie. And I wanted, instead of, you know, being the adult in the room, seriously, I was just like, you know, "Well, you're lying and you know, stop it," instead of just letting it go. Because really, 'cause that's what as an adult you would do. I didn't let it go. And the most unfortunate part, I think is it, you know, it went home with me. Right? It made it stressful and it went home with me, I couldn't sleep well, that kind of thing. 

[00:15:07] Ana Torres: So we've had some time to kind of digest that and let's see if we can unpack that a little bit. What are your thoughts, Classroom Insider, on her issue, her challenge of classroom management? 

[00:15:22] Eric Cross: That if we click on that, that there's a whole bunch of things that come out from classroom management. There's a lot that you can say, but I'm gonna focus on what she talked about, about the sense of needing to be right.

[00:15:32] Eric Cross: And as a teacher, when you are in the classroom, you have your own experiences that you see, that you filter things through in your own belief system about things. But then you have 30 plus other students that have all different backgrounds, that have all different dynamics with adults and then you have relationships with each other and all of that, that's a lot. There's an art and science to classroom management and when she said needing to be right, like I thought about ego, you know, we all have it. You stand up and you talk in front of people all day. So that sense of needing to be right, but realizing that you don't need to be right, right now.

[00:16:06] Eric Cross: And the needing to be right, right now, can sometimes get in the way of learning and reflection. If it's me against you versus me and you versus the problem , and reminding the students that I'm not your enemy in this. But that can be hard to do when you're hot and you're in that moment, right?

[00:16:24] Ana Torres: Right. And the other students are kind of watching the reaction. 

[00:16:30] Eric Cross: There's an audience. There's literally an audience watching you do life in real time. Imagine arguing or having a heated situation with someone you really care about a significant other.

[00:16:38] Eric Cross: And there's an audience of people watching like it's a sport. That's a lot. That's a lot. So I think everybody who has spent any time in the classroom can resonate with classroom management and the challenges that brings.

[00:16:53] Ana Torres: And like you said, and the tension that it brings. My first year of teaching classroom management was not an issue. But going back to what you said, kind of being right and everyone, like being on task, like everyone was to kind of, you know, there was an agenda, there's, you know, timestamps, like there's, everyone was supposed to be unfortunately, like a little robot.

[00:17:16] Ana Torres: And it actually went against who I personally was. But moving from higher ed to this particular, you know, kind of the elementary setting, it's everyone was on schedule. And I remember this this young man that I had, and I loved this child, but he would drive my nerves because he was a doodler. So, you know, I'm up there, I'm teaching, you know, I spent all this time with my lesson.

[00:17:38] Ana Torres: All the other kids are sitting there listening, excited. And my friend was doodling all the time. And so to me, that was off task. To me, that was disrespectful. Like, how dare you be doing something else? I'm talking, I'm the teacher. You should be paying attention. So I would literally like, and I think the children would see me cringe.

[00:17:58] Ana Torres: I never got out of pocket. But it's like, can you listen to what Ms. Torres is saying? I need you to be paying attention. And he would always say, "I am." And I would always say, "but you're not because I don't, your eyes aren't following me, you're not tracking me." All of that fun stuff to the point where he would just then start, it got from doodling to like, "I'm not paying attention. I'm not even gonna doodle. I'm not gonna look at you." So I saw that as defiant. So I literally had to have a conversation with him afterwards and say, "What is going on?" He is like, "Ms. Torres, I'm listening to you. Doodling just helps me relax." Come to find out this poor baby had some severe ADHD issues. And so you know what I started doing?

[00:18:37] Ana Torres: "You know, what, can you give me this five minutes? I will let you doodle X time." And it was a plan that worked out great, but while I'm taking it to be like disrespectful and I can't believe this child isn't listening to me, a simple conversation with this child, you know, made our relationship so much better.

[00:18:57] Ana Torres: And so that's advice that I kind of have for folks is, talk to your students right? And you know, Fawn felt disrespected too. Talk to the student and find out what's going on. So to this day, this child always stays on my mind. So I always think about, what does disrespect really mean?

[00:19:16] Ana Torres: Like that wasn't being disrespectful, 'cause he could literally answer any question I would ask him. And that would also frustrate me too. So I can totally resonate with Fawn and her frustration of being right and being in control, 'cause being right means, I'm in control here. So it's also a control thing.

[00:19:38] Ana Torres: Yeah. I agree.

[00:19:38] Ana Torres: Yeah. So I loved it, loved hearing from her. Totally resonated with that. I'm sure that our listeners resonate with that. Some of the things that I really like about Fawn is she says things that we might not say out loud. I wanna be right all the time, 'cause I'm a teacher. 

[00:19:55] Eric Cross: Yeah. She speaks from experience and wisdom and says it how it is. And I think to your point, effective classroom management, I'm coming to believe, I haven't made a quote for this yet, but it definitely requires you to change. And I mean changes evolve.

[00:20:13] Eric Cross: Like you have to evolve as a person and be willing to, because there're so many different entities and students that come at you from different perspectives and you have to create space for the student who does doodle, that for you, you might, like you said, might filter that as disrespect, but there needs to be room for that student and there's gonna be another. And that's okay.

[00:20:32] Eric Cross: That's the thing, is it's okay that that hits you a certain way 'cause you're a human being. But you created space and allowed yourself to now have capacity to see that child. And then there's gonna be another child who has a different type of need, and I think when we get rigid, that's when it gets really tough.

[00:20:46] Eric Cross: Everybody has to conform to me. 

[00:20:48] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:20:49] Eric Cross: Then a lot of power struggles can happen and that can lead to really challenging learning environments.

[00:20:58] Ana Torres: And so yeah, to your point, as educators, we should always be reflecting and evolving. We're also the lifelong learner. I appreciate that. See, I can drop wisdom nuggets, just like Eric Cross. Now we're gonna move, because he's the hashtag guy. He always has these you know, wisdom nuggets that he drops that I'm always like, believe it or not, jotting down on a little pad I have next to my microphone.

[00:21:23] Ana Torres: So, thank you Fawn. I'm so excited that she was able to come back and reflect with us. Now we also had an opportunity to reconnect with Rebecka Peterson, and if those of you who've listened to that episode, Rebecka was the 2023 National Teacher of the Year and she joined us on episode seven of our first season.

[00:21:52] Ana Torres: Here is what our reunion felt like. Here's a little clip of our reunion.

[00:21:58] Ana Torres: So good to see you,

[00:21:59] Ana Torres: Rebecka. So good to see you again. Thank you so much. 

[00:22:04] Rebecka Peterson: Oh my gosh. Thank you. It's so fun. This is just like... it's such a great podcast.

[00:22:10] Rebecka Peterson: I guess I had finished my year of service when I talked to you all.

[00:22:13] Rebecka Peterson: I had just finished. I think what really resonated was like just having grace for ourselves, and like, loving unconditionally. 

[00:22:25] Ana Torres: So Rebecka was back with her joyful spirit. What did you think? 

[00:22:30] Eric Cross: I mean, what do you say? Loving yourself, loving unconditionally, and giving grace to yourself.

[00:22:35] Eric Cross: Like, can we just put that at the end of every podcast?

[00:22:41] Ana Torres: Right. Another little, you know, and I'm not surprised that those are the words that Rebecka Peterson spoke. She's just, you know, a person that really kind of accentuates, you know, love and joy and inclusion. So, it was so great to have her back. And of course I asked Rebecka about a topic or a challenge that was specifically relevant to her when she was a newer teacher.

[00:23:09] Ana Torres: And here's what she had to say about that. 

[00:23:13] Rebecka Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's a lot. But yeah, I think sort of like really granularly and then I can also think a more like zoomed out topic. But, I think if I like zoom in something that I really needed help with, which is interesting 'cause... so I taught at the college level for three years and then, you know, like I say, very adorably thought I could just jump into the high school level.

[00:23:38] Rebecka Peterson: And I did that 13 years ago, is when I started teaching at the high school level. And you know, smart phones were like starting to be a big thing. Phones in general, even, you know, flip phones and texting, it was a big, and still is obviously just a really big thing. And that was in terms of like classroom management, something I really struggled with and it actually took me several years to feel confident in how to manage my classroom in a way that like felt good and true to me.

[00:24:25] Ana Torres: Any other, you know, topic or challenge that you wish you would've been able to have? 

[00:24:32] Rebecka Peterson: Yeah. You know, I'm curious if you relate to this as well, coming from the college classroom first. Another thing I struggled with, but honestly I didn't realize I was struggling with it for an embarrassing amount of time, was coming from the college classroom, I was really used to like being the sage on stage as they say. I was like, I just need to explain this math problem beautifully, and if I, you know, color code and I don't know, talk slow, like it'll be great. And what, you know, what I've learned from my dear colleagues who have been so patient with me in the high school classroom, it's so important to like decenter yourself, and to make students the center of the classroom and make sure that their voices, their questions, their comments, their answers are elevated, right? And so I think, had I taken data and like clocked the time, the amount of time I spent talking in my first years versus my students, that pie chart would've been really skewed towards whatever color you know, my time was. 

[00:25:47] Ana Torres: Wow. You know, some similar challenges like Fawn, but a different perspective on being the center, kind of like being on stage for students. What are your thoughts about what she just said. Eric? 

[00:26:06] Eric Cross: I was fortunate to come into education when this movement had already taken root as far as being the sage on the stage versus the guide on the side, right? That's what they say, right? 

[00:26:17] Ana Torres: Ooh. I that. 

[00:26:19] Eric Cross: That was it. So we were trying to be the guide on the side. And when I was in my program, that was a thing. And so I was thankful to be indoctrinated into that, right? But I didn't go to school with that. Like I went to school with a lecture. And you always kind of teach like how you learned.

[00:26:34] Eric Cross: But I'm grateful for my professors when I was in my program, to have learned how to teach that way. And I get it, like, you know, we feel like we're getting through the content when we're doing direct instruction, and I can control pacing. It can be wild when you're letting students develop their own learning.

[00:26:52] Eric Cross: It's messy and it's sticky, but you know what? And I'm gonna give a shout-out to Kate Ballo for this, like it's okay, like take risks and let it get messy [00:27:00] and let students build their own learning. That's fine. You're shifting them from being passive listeners to active participants in their learning experiences.

[00:27:10] Eric Cross: And so, yeah, that really made a lot of sense. I think now in my career, I find myself getting really uncomfortable if I talk longer than 10 or 15 minutes. I actually will say, "I'm talking way too much. I should give you just enough instruction so that you know what to do. Now do something with it."

[00:27:31] Eric Cross: And I see a lot of educators kinda doing the same, but I definitely get it as far as, you know, wanting to have that control and get through your content. 

[00:27:42] Ana Torres: And that kind of goes back to Fawns issue, right? Like wanting to have control and making sure the class is managed in a particular way.

[00:27:50] Ana Torres: I liked what she said, like the word of decenter yourself. 

[00:27:54] Eric Cross: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:55] Ana Torres: Because that is how we come into a classroom, like I am the center. [00:28:00] I will be the center of attention. And for me, my downfall is I always felt I had to be on. I always felt I had to be ready. And I remember I had a colleague across from me where exactly what you just said, it's supposed to be messy. Like she would do short snippets of instruction and allow children to go in, you know, get in corners and get under desks and have conversations. And to me that felt like, you know, it's not organized in there. I don't want my principal walking in thinking like, learning isn't happening because that's not what learning looks like. But wow. They were learning. And I remember walking in and going under desks and asking students, and the joy they had from being able to have conversations in the classroom, meaning, conversation shouldn't only be limited to the cafeteria and maybe if they have recess. Think about how much we tell our children to sit, listen, sit, listen, and then I'll let you know when you can talk. Oh, by the way, it's only 30 seconds, come back together. So the magic of... and it was hard for me to try it because I like to have the control, and I'm like, "Oh, my kids are fine, because I'm giving them a lot of time to talk. So I'm a good teacher." But when I would go in her classroom and just the vibrance and the students talking, and I would catch these students in the hallways talking about what they're learning, that is magical.

[00:29:27] Ana Torres: That was like, a ding, ding light bulb for me that in my second and third year, you know, I eased into it. It took me a little bit of time 'cause I'm a control freak. And the fact that children are learning more that way, and I didn't know that it was decentering myself. And they taught me so much when I would allow the space for them to learn and use their critical thinking skills, 'cause as teachers, as educators, we're so scared of that. We're so scared that children may have a different way of learning something than what's in the math book or what we're supposed to be teaching.

[00:30:00] Ana Torres: The magical moments always came when children were able to say, "Ms. Torres, I have a new way of solving that. You wanna hear it?" And I'm like, " Yeah!" "It's not the way you taught me, but I have a new way of..." Oh, that was like a magical moment where I would say, "Okay, I'm stopping now." And I wouldn't freak out about, "Oh my gosh, I only have 20 minutes left." It'd be like, "We'll pick it up. Whatever we didn't do today, we'll do tomorrow." So it's freeing, isn't it, Eric? To be able to see children learning on their terms too? I found it magical. 

[00:30:32] Eric Cross: I agree. It is. But I think you also have to get through that scary part too. I think I wanna normalize that. It's only scary because it's unfamiliar and then once you get past that, it is really liberating. Student learning isn't linear. We treat it like it is because we have a pacing guide. But sometimes it zigzags, sometimes it goes back. And to be fair, there's content, there's pacing, there's state testing, there's all of these pressures that exist.

[00:30:57] Eric Cross: But when my students come back to me, what they remember oftentimes is the experiences that they had . And going back to that quote that a mentor said to me years ago that sometimes you have to slow down teaching to speed up learning. And I see that what was described by Rebecka is doing that.

[00:31:12] Eric Cross: Lifting up student voices, making them the center, putting the spotlight on them, and allowing them really to make sense of the knowledge and the skills that we're giving them. When we don't create opportunities for that, I've learned it feels like you're teaching 'cause you're getting through it, but you have to stop and go, "but are students learning? You know, and that's the telltale.

[00:31:33] Ana Torres: Yeah. Yep. So, yes, I appreciated being the guide on the side. Didn't even know that phrase existed until now, but I loved being the facilitator of information.

[00:31:43] Eric Cross: I feel like I'm using these hiking references consistently. Drop your pack, guide to the side. Maybe I just need to go outside and touch grass or something. I don't know. 

[00:31:50] Ana Torres: No, you can write a book with all of your Eric-isms and you know, make a million dollars and you don't have to worry about any of this anymore.

[00:31:57] Ana Torres: So, wow. Two great guests with similar challenges, but different takes on these challenges. And we also had our third guest, Simone McQuaige, who, oh my gosh, just her soft-spokenness and her change-maker way that she didn't even realize... she's like, "Ana." I'm like, "You created change in a whole district, which in turn created change in a whole state." So, wonderful exchange with Simone, what we like to refer her as the literacy leader from Maryland. Let's get a little update from her and see how she's doing. 

[00:32:35] A. Simone McQuaige: Since being on the Beyond the Years podcast, I've had some amazing conversations with family, friends, and colleagues who shared similar experiences from their own journeys as educators. We laughed and reminisced.

[00:32:54] A. Simone McQuaige: I've also had the opportunity to connect with teachers who are eager to grow their own professional networks. Some have even asked me to mentor them. Honestly, it's been such a rewarding experience. It just reminded me of how powerful our stories can be in bringing people together and inspiring growth.

[00:33:26] Ana Torres: It's always so great to hear from Simone, isn't it?

[00:33:29] Eric Cross: She's so cool. It's just so smooth. Like, just so cool. So great to hear her again. 

[00:33:33] Ana Torres: So passionate about the work. I like how she's like, "Oh, you know what? I've been keeping up with folks and folks even wanting to get mentored."

[00:33:41] Ana Torres: So let's take a little listen to now, you know, here's what she had to say about her early years in the classroom, and then the area that she could have used some guidance and support in. 

[00:33:52] A. Simone McQuaige: When I think back to my early years in the classroom, one area where I definitely could have used more guidance is time management.

[00:34:02] A. Simone McQuaige: As a new teacher, I was constantly juggling, lesson planning, and grading, and trying to create engaging experiences for my students, all while staying late and taking work home. I just didn't have the systems or strategies to manage my time effectively, and it often left me feeling overwhelmed. Looking back, I realize it would've been so helpful to have learned how to set boundaries for myself and prioritize task, and definitely build time for my own self-care. 

[00:34:53] Ana Torres: Wow. And I don't know if you recall in Season One we heard that, you know, this trend of self-care, not only from Simone, but I think Phet mentioned it. We had quite a few of our guests mention self-care being important. Kareem also.

[00:35:08] Ana Torres: So that was a trend that we hear— taking care of yourself. As a person who is in the, you know, in the classroom, in the trenches, how did this resonate with you, Eric? 

[00:35:20] Eric Cross: I think this is something that, it's taken years for me to evolve, to get to a place of what I consider to be balance.

[00:35:28] Eric Cross: I come from a hustle and grind culture, and I have that mindset. So when I first started in education, I was here closing down the school, right? It was nighttime. I know when it's time for me to leave, because there's a lady who sells tamales outside in a cart and she's yelling it and she has the loudest voice, but when she starts yelling, I know I have to go home.

[00:35:47] Eric Cross: It's usually around 7 o'clock. That was me in the first few years. 

[00:35:51] Ana Torres: Yeah. 

[00:35:51] Eric Cross: But what I slowly started to realize, and maybe some of it's generational, but this balance of taking care of yourself and making sure that you're okay, because you need that to be able to show up for your students.

[00:36:04] Eric Cross: Otherwise, we just kind of burn out. Having those systems and strategies, and one simple thing—I get really excited about my projects that I create. I get super amped. I was like, "Okay, this is gonna be great. It's gonna be engaging, it's gonna hit multiple modalities of learning. They're gonna make websites, they're gonna do all of this. They're gonna debate." And then I go, "Wait a second. I'm gonna have to grade this." 

[00:36:25] Ana Torres: Right. 

[00:36:25] Eric Cross: And I'm trying to do this at the end of the school year. And factoring that into how much capacity I have in my day. And then how am I gonna grade this? Like things like that. When you have a big project and then you think about how am I gonna grade this?

[00:36:40] Eric Cross: Can I do this throughout the project? Can I involve peer grading? Can I only grade a portion of it? Even though it's a big deal, I'm only looking at a portion of this. As I learned to do those things, it really liberated me from not feeling like I had to look at every single thing or grade every single thing and put everything in, and these were things that I picked up along the way that would've been really helpful to have folks like, Simone or Fawn or anyone, I wanna say, almost give me permission to do. And this is one of the things I'm really grateful for—for a lot of the folks that are still mentoring—is we need those veteran teachers, or what do you call them? What do you call those? The teachers?

[00:37:20] Ana Torres: Seasoned. 

[00:37:20] Eric Cross: Yes. I think seasoned teachers now are more critical than ever because they can validate and almost give permission to newer teachers to say, "Hey, look, it's okay that you are going home at four to take care of your family. It is okay that you're taking the weekend to yourself. It's okay that out of these five assignments, this is the one that you're gonna choose to grade to see skill level." Because those things don't come up unless you're around folks who've been around and doing this over time. You need that wisdom. You need that experience. And Simone hits on a big one.

[00:37:56] Eric Cross: Time management, creating systems, creating boundaries, [00:38:00] all very important. 

[00:38:02] Ana Torres: And I think seasoned teachers, you know, that include both of us, 'cause you know what, you're in your second decade almost, so you know, you're part of this year. Unfortunately, we wore the, "I worked 12 hours a day," as a badge of honor, right?

[00:38:15] Eric Cross: Yeah. 

[00:38:16] Ana Torres: Wow. Yes. I've worked every single, you know, my first year I worked, for the first three years, I worked 12 hours a day and I was, "this is a badge of honor." Until my mentor teacher said, "It's really not Ana. Everything you touch does not have to be graded." Because I would spend endless hours, 'cause I was that teacher that I wanna ensure that I give feedback to every single student about how they've done. And that would take me a lot of time. Everything you touch didn't have to be graded, kind of to your point. And to Simone's point of making experiences, projects, you know, culminating tasks engaging for students was something that I always prided myself with. But I did too many of those, right?

[00:38:56] Ana Torres: And then I spent too much time grading all of that. So it was a vicious cycle until, you know, I realized that isn't a badge of honor when I'm not taking care of myself. I wasn't taking care of my marriage. You know, Kareem and I had a great conversation about that. Like, there's a lot of things to be lost when you don't take care of you. And I'm not going to be the best teacher if I'm not taking care of myself. That is something that I learned my last five years in the classroom is, I was a much better educator when I also took care of myself and said, "This can wait until tomorrow. This can wait until tomorrow. This part we didn't get to today, we're going to get to it tomorrow."

[00:39:37] Ana Torres: So, I gave myself permission to do that. So, that was great. And the way that Simone put it, you know, it's not a badge of honor to work 12 hours a day and burn out. So I appreciated the way she eloquently put it. And the way that you just did. It's okay. So with that, I mean three amazing guests, Eric, that came back and wanted to share a little bit about how they were doing, and also a question that we asked.

[00:40:05] Ana Torres: So to that point, we hope that you, you know, listeners, that you enjoyed some of those updates. And now we're very excited to tell you about Season Two. And, you know, we've been asking a question of all of the former guests. Our Season Two is starting this fall. Eric, do you wanna tell them? Let's tease out what Season Two is looking like.

[00:40:34] Eric Cross: Oh...

[00:40:35] Ana Torres: Take the third bullet. Take the third bullet and read it all the way down. And I'll finish it with the last little yellow, whatever. 

[00:40:42] Eric Cross: All right. So "as you've heard" and then down to "stay tuned?" 

[00:40:45] Ana Torres: Yeah. Yes. Do you mind? That way I'm not talking the whole time here. 

[00:40:50] Eric Cross: No, no, no. I just want to look at it so I can make sure I ...

[00:40:53] Ana Torres: Oh, sure. Take your time. And I can start over if you want. 

[00:40:55] Eric Cross: Um, each episode will be built Now did you just say we're what we're gonna talk about? 'cause in here it doesn't say what we're gonna talk about specifically.

[00:41:02] Eric Cross: Were we supposed to go into specifics? 

[00:41:04] Ana Torres: No, just just keep it teaser. It isn't, 

[00:41:07] Eric Cross: is there a list of 

[00:41:09] Ana Torres: of topics? No, we're just telling them, oh, keep it 

[00:41:11] Eric Cross: vague. 

[00:41:12] Ana Torres: We're, we're going to, you know, we're gonna talk about topics we're gonna challenge, you know, have, you know, teachers and educators talk about the challenges.

[00:41:20] Ana Torres: I mean, if you wanna throw in a topic or two, you can, these are just kind of like our talking points. 'cause I was telling Martin I didn't want to be the only one talking at this little, this is the closing out section we've teased you. No, it's okay. We've teased you a little bit and you've heard, you know, questions.

[00:41:37] Ana Torres: You know, you've heard X, Y, Z. Talk about topics in Season Two. We're gonna talk about topics. Stay tuned. I, you know, stay tuned to the feed unless you want me to do that. Whatever you wanna do. I just didn't wanna be the only one talking. 

[00:41:52] Eric Cross: It's totally fine. Um,

[00:41:57] Eric Cross: yeah, I think, I think. Um, yeah, I, I, I think it would be better if you did it. I don't. Okay. Yeah. 'cause you kind of have a, a idea of what, what you want to say. I think I didn't, I, I, sorry. I would've, uh. 

[00:42:16] Ana Torres: Oh no, that's okay. We got it. Synthesize 

[00:42:17] Eric Cross: a little better. 

[00:42:18] Ana Torres: No worries. Oh, no worries.

[00:42:19] Ana Torres: So, we hope that you enjoyed updates from a few of our great Season One guests.

[00:42:26] Ana Torres: And so as you can see, we've been teasing out a little bit. We've asked them some question about how things are going, but we also asked them a question about a challenge or a situation that they faced. And so we're excited to tell you a little bit about Season Two and where we're going with this coming this fall.

[00:42:45] Ana Torres: And you've heard from Fawn and Rebecka and Simone, and from some of our listeners. There are a lot of topics and issues out there that you want us to address. And so what Eric and I are going to do in Season Two, right Eric? We're going to, we are going to take these topics head on! Right Eric? What are we doing in each episode?

[00:43:11] Ana Torres: So in each episode, we're going to build around tackling a different teaching challenge, and we'll be joined by some amazing guests with particular experience on that issue. So that's a little bit of a shift from Season One. Some of these topics suggested by Fawn, Rebecka, and Simone, we'll be taking those on time management, classroom management are some of those topics.

[00:43:34] Ana Torres: We want you to stay tuned to this podcast feed and amplify social channels for more from us. And we'll be sharing more information about Season Two and also dropping an episode with a very special guest. So stay tuned for that. So until next time, remember to reach out to seasoned educators in your life, and please say thank you.

[00:43:59] Ana Torres:  I am Ana Torres, and of course we have Eric Cross here. We thank you so much for listening. What are your final words, Eric?