Beyond My Years

Strategies for new teachers to overcome disillusionment, starring Tina Boogren, Ph.D.

• Amplify Education • Season 2 • Episode 5

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Tina Boogren, Ph.D., joins Ana Torres, not only to discuss how it’s completely normal for first-year teachers (and even some veterans) to experience disillusionment, but also to offer tactics for overcoming those feelings. Tina and Ana kick off this episode by explaining Ellen Moir's “The Phases of First-Year Teaching," which outlines the emotional stages new teachers move through. They discuss how teachers have to name their feelings to tame their feelings, the difference between stress and burnout, and the importance of giving ourselves grace and avoiding comparison with others. Tina also details her three research-backed strategies for self-care: gratitude, altruism, and laughter. Finally, Classroom Insider Eric Cross joins Ana to share takeaways from the interview, including how and why to ask for help, even if it’s just so you can take a small break.

Show notes: 

Quotes:

“It's teeny tiny little things. When you combine those together, you are tapping into that brain research that's giving our brain a different assignment and looking for the positive. And we will find it.” —Tina Boogren, Ph.D. 

“I always say it's an ‘and’; it's not an ‘or.’ It's not instruction or self-care.” —Tina Boogren, Ph.D. 

 ”It's those small wins that we look over. If we're not looking for them, we can miss them, and we just keep thinking, ‘I'm not as good as that person.’” —Tina Boogren, Ph.D. 

“It's vulnerable but it's necessary to be able to honor yourself and say, ‘I need help. I need support.’” —Ana Torres

“Sometimes your day is just teaching someone a life skill…and hopefully that's going to get them to learning.” —Eric Cross 

“ Whatever I'm feeling is not just impacting me, even though I want to think it is, or that I’m masking it. I know that if I'm not at my A game, it's impacting my students.” —Eric Cross

Tina Boogren: This is the reminder that yes, of course we have to talk about instruction, but the magic isn't in the strategy. It's in the person providing that strategy. So, this is where I always say it's an "and."

Ana Torres: This is Ana Torres, and welcome back to Beyond My Years from Amplify. So on Beyond My Years, we're here to help educators extend their reach, and on each episode we share research-backed strategies and tried and true lessons from experts and experienced educators. I am here with an experienced educator. My Classroom Insider, Eric Cross. How is it going, Eric?

Eric Cross: It's good, Ana. It's good to talk to you. It's fall weather, so you know I got my fall cardigan on right now.

Ana Torres: You are looking spiffy.

Eric Cross: I feel like professorial when I wear my cardigan. And I have one with elbow patches. I feel like I feel so ... I feel like a teacher, teacher when I wear it.

Ana Torres: I would love to hear about what your students think of the cardigan today.

Eric Cross: Short version. They think it makes me look old.

Ana Torres: So, on each episode this season, we're tackling a different teaching challenge. And to make sure we're picking the topics that are the most relevant, we've been chatting with educators around the country about the challenges that are on their minds. One of the educators we spoke to is Sandra Olivares, and she is from Texas.

Sandra Olivares: So, my name is Sandra Olivares and I am a bilingual teacher. This is my 11th year of teaching. I have made it that long.

Ana Torres: We actually spoke with Sandra in the spring, so I think she's onto year 12 by now. Back to our conversation with Sandra.

Eric Cross: Yeah. Sandra, what's, what teaching issue is top of mind for you right now? What's something that's a challenge you've been facing or something that's been popping up for you?

Sandra Olivares: So, one thing that pops up is balance and prioritizing. I have two young children, but I am also, you know, quote unquote, that workaholic, right?

I am that teacher that gets there early and I am the teacher that stays late. But then I also have to understand I have my kids at home. So for me, it's really that balance. And like I said...

Ana Torres: So hearing that, Eric, how does that resonate with you?

Eric Cross: Well, the, the workaholic part definitely resonates, uh, with me because, uh, as we're, as I'm getting ready to go to a flight to the Philippines and uh, do some teacher exchange out there and we're recording the podcast before I'm teaching and all, all great stuff, it's very easy to get overcommitted to things that are all great things, but then you realize you can be out of balance. And so, prioritizing and knowing that the work and the, that you can do will always exceed the time that you have. [Good morning and have...] Oh, sorry. Can you hear that on the loud speaker?

Ana Torres: Wow. The days, the days of the announcements.

Eric Cross: Those only come on Wednesdays and we record on Thursdays so that, that we don't ever hear it.

But Wednesdays only day they do that. Okay. Um. We work in a, in an industry where the need will always exceed our capacity, so we can always say yes, and it's always great stuff. That's the tricky thing is you're not, you're doing really meaningful work and so you can spend hours and hours and hours doing it because it is soul fulfilling.

And then we'll do it at the expense of our own body. So we have to have boundaries. We have to realize that we, we have limitations.

Ana Torres: Wow. With that said, the real reason I'm so excited about today's guest is that she makes a strong case that instructional strategies and care need to go hand in hand. Tina Boogren is an author of several books for educators, and she's got a lot of small research-backed tactics for supporting teachers, especially our newer teachers out there. I'm going to bring her on and we're going to catch up later. Okay, Eric?

Eric Cross: Sounds great. Talk to you soon.

Ana Torres: This season of Beyond My Years is all about supporting listeners with research-backed, tried-and-true solutions to common teaching challenges.

And today we're tackling a foundational challenge for newer educators. Where to start when everything is new? Ooh, I remember those days. I don't think we could have found a more qualified guest for this topic. Dr. Tina Boorgen served as a classroom teacher. She was a mentor, an instructional coach, and a building-level leader. We have so much in common.

Dr. Boorgen is a bestselling author of numerous books on education, including several specifically about teachers' first years in the classroom. Just to name a few, there's, In The First Few Years: Reflections of a Beginning Teacher; another one, Supporting Beginning Teachers; the Beginning Teachers Field Guide. Woo! 180 Days of Self Care for Busy Educators. Another book she's written, 180 Days of Physical Wellness for Busy Educators. So newer educators, she knows you well. Let's welcome Dr. Tina Boogren. Thanks so much for joining us today, Tina.

Tina Boogren: Oh my goodness. Thank you. I have been waiting for this for so long, so I am just so honored to be here.

Thank you for having me, and thank you for the work you do for everyone, but particularly our newest educators.

Ana Torres: Well, you know, we have you here. You are an expert in this particular area of challenge for teachers, and so we're going to spend some time today exploring a specific chart that really changed your own life, Tina. So take us back to your early moments in the classroom and share what you found.

Tina Boogren: Yeah, so I, um, I remember so distinctly this particular day. So I was in my first year of teaching, it was early October, and there was nothing about what I was doing that was any harder than anyone else. It was just hard.

I had four preps, you know, two different seventh grade classes, two different eighth grade classes, and I remember hitting a moment where I just thought, "I'm drowning." And I had, my planning period was in the afternoon and, and in fact during my planning period in my classroom, another class used my classroom. And it was, uh, it was a Spanish classroom, it was a total physical response classroom, which means it was loud and I remember I was just like, it's too much. And I remember I grabbed my purse and I grabbed my coat and I walked down—my classroom was at the end of the hallway, long hallway, and the other end of the hallway was the front door. And I just kind of like in a dream, walked towards that front door thinking, "If no one stops me, I'm going to go back to the mall and I'm going to work at the Gap for the rest of my life. I'm going to fold sweaters." That is what my job had been. I worked in retail,. I was going to go back to the mall.

Ana Torres: That was the thought process as you're walking down the hall, right? Hopefully no one will stop me!

Tina Boogren: I always laugh. It's like an ABC after school special. I had just almost gotten to that front door and Mary Dee Seibold walked out of her office.

And she asked me if I was okay. And my initial response of course was, "Yes, yes, I'm fine. Everything's fine." Right?

Ana Torres: Of course.

Tina Boogren: And then she asked again, and the tears started falling and she brought me into her office and I just said, I was just drowning. I was just drowning. And what was so beautiful about that moment is she didn't offer advice. In other words, what she said was, "You need a day off." And I started crying harder because I said, "I don't know how to get a sub. I know you told me at that orientation, but I didn't retain anything, so my plan was to never need a sub." So she did her little, "Bless your heart, Tina. I'm going to get you a sub," and sent me home. I went home.

Ana Torres: Don't you hate that line? I hate that line.

Tina Boogren: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But I slept and like regrouped and when I went back in, then I sat down with her and we talked through everything. And one of the main things she did is she pulled out Ellen Moir's chart, and it's the chart from the New Teacher Center that shows the phases that first year teachers go through and their attitudes towards teaching.

And Mary Dee said to me, "You are normal. This is, it's October and you are right here." And she pointed in the chart and I remember saying out loud, "Oh, thank God it's not just me. Look, they made a chart like that is, that is me." And she said, "We're going to get you through this disillusionment phase. It's totally normal. It's going to get better." And it was just a pivotal just shift for me, because at the time I worked in a building, everyone was lovely, but it was a closed door, we were not functioning as a professional learning community. We were all on our own, what Rick DuFour used to say, you know, we were independent contractors that shared a common parking lot.

Ana Torres: Right.

Tina Boogren: So we weren't talking about any of that. And so that was just such a huge moment. And I remember even at the time thinking, "I'm going to pay this forward someday."

Ana Torres: So let's kind of take a step back and unpack this very, what you said, transformative chart, right?

Tina Boogren: Yes, yes.

Ana Torres: And because this is a podcast, we don't have the gift of a visual aid here. So can you kind of walk us through this chart in a little bit more detail?

Tina Boogren: So listeners, you can picture this, and you may have even seen it. So what she's identified are these phases that first year teachers go through in their attitudes towards teaching. That's the title of the chart. And it starts in anticipation. And so that is the phase... anticipation really is before the school year starts. It's when you get the call, you got the job, you're in your classroom, you're setting everything up, everything looks good, right? And then kids come and there's like, if you, if you're standing on this ledge of anticipation, you start to go down this hill and that is the survival phase.

Ana Torres: Ooh.

 Tina Boogren: And that's what we would say is that where we are still passionate about the job, but we are starting to become overwhelmed. And think about all of the decision fatigue and everything that happens at the start of the year. Totally normal. But the scary part is if left unchecked, that normal stress will turn itself into the phase that is this low point. So she's got this big dip and at the lowest point is what she calls disillusionment.

Ana Torres: Ugh.

Tina Boogren: And the difference between the survival stage that I call stress and disillusionment is, when we're feeling stressed, we are that passionate, but overwhelmed, but we're not thinking about quitting our job.

We're just starting to get overwhelmed, right? The difference is when we hit that disillusionment, now we're seriously contemplating quitting our job. And I, I oftentimes think of that as that difference between stress and burnout. Stress is the feeling of too much. Burnout is the feeling of too little, where we just start to feel like we kind of throw our hands up, like, "I just can't."

So it, it varies depending on, I know school years start at different times, but survival kicks off right when the school year starts and that disillusionment starts to creep in during the, what I call the BER months, the BER months, right?

Ana Torres: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tina Boogren: Late September, October, November, moving into December, right?

Ana Torres: Yes.

Tina Boogren: And think about the time change. Many of us live somewhere where it's starting to get colder and darker. That sickness is going around, right? All, just all of it. Now, that's the lowest point. Now in Ellen's chart, she has, when we come back from winter break, we start to move into what she calls rejuvenation. And that just, it doesn't mean everything's perfect, it just means, okay...

Ana Torres: there's light at the end of the tunnel, right?

Tina Boogren: Yes. We've taken a little break over the holidays, we start moving towards the end of the year, is a reflection phase where we're thinking back on the year—what worked, what didn't—and then we move into summer, back in anticipation.

So it's anticipating summer, it's anticipating next year.

Ana Torres: Sounds like a cycle.

Tina Boogren: Yeah.

Ana Torres: Because you start with anticipation, then you go to survival, then it's disillusionment, and then we anticipate all over again. And so, that is a great, great visual and we all have that moment of, "I can't do this." And I remember my specific experience with having a very difficult student that I just didn't feel like I could manage well, and went to the principal's office and said, "I don't think I can do this." And it seems like both of our stories, we were already in that disillusionment.

Tina Boogren: Yeah.

Ana Torres: We were disillusioned.

Tina Boogren: Right.

Ana Torres: Because mine was in December. Mine was in December.

 Tina Boogren: Yes. Yes.

Ana Torres: I remember that December.

Tina Boogren: Yes.

Ana Torres: So thank you for breaking that down. Now, you know, with all of your accolades, because you know, I, you know, kind of given people lots of books to read that you have written.

Tina Boogren: Mm-hmm.

Ana Torres: You've built on this chart, have you not?

Tina Boogren: Yes. I always tell people, I'm like, "I, I got this kind of just obsession with this chart." So a couple of things. So number one, exactly as you said, there's a cycle and that chart held true for me year after year after year. I think the difference is, when you are brand new and you look at that chart or you are in the midst of that and you don't know it gets any better, it's terrifying. Where with some experience we say, "Oh, hello old friend. This is disillusionment." Right?

Ana Torres: I remember you.

Tina Boogren: Yes. So number one, in my book, Coaching for Educator Wellness, I updated Ellen Moir's chart because what I've discovered is that there's a second dip that tends to occur in the spring.

Ana Torres: Yeah.

Tina Boogren: I call that the state testing slump.

Ana Torres: Ooh.

Tina Boogren: The other update is, I've just kind of removed the feeling that this is just for first year teachers. In fact, one of my recommendations is, when I work with administrators, is to take that chart, blow it up, and before a faculty meeting, give everyone a sticky dot and have them place where they are. Because if your entire staff is in disillusionment, they need something different perhaps than the plan to look at data or whatever it is. And so that all kind of snowballed into the work around wellness because I, I don't believe that we can make disillusionment go away, but I'm 100% convinced that we can, what I always say is, raise the bottom so we don't hit so low every year, every time. When we catch our own patterns and recognize, "Hello, my old friend disillusionment, what could we do next year to get ahead of that? Or what can we do to help not hit so low for so long?"

Ana Torres: Which I think that kind of link to, "Yes, we're going to be in this kind of, in these phases, how can we navigate it better?" Because like in any job you kind of go through these phases, but I think in education, you really hit it. And it's hard because again, kind of what we talked about, you know, when we first met, it's we've got students in front of us.

Tina Boogren: Yeah.

 Ana Torres: And so that disillusionment phase was really hard for me because it's, "I'm letting them down if I don't figure out what I'm going to do here."

Tina Boogren: Yeah.

Ana Torres: So how can our listeners use the chart, you know, and what you've added to their advantage?

Tina Boogren: Yeah, so number one, there's that feeling of, there's that phrase that's like, name it to tame it.

Ana Torres: Ooh.

Tina Boogren: Sometimes just putting a name on it helps us recognize where we are. So I always share the chart with new teachers and two things, when they get the chart, I always make them write, "this is normal."

Ana Torres: Ah.

Tina Boogren: And then I have them circle "disillusionment" and draw a line and write, "tell someone." So many new teachers, one of the number one reasons that new teachers leave is lack of support.

Ana Torres: Yes.

Tina Boogren: The other big reason is stress, right? So no one can help you if they don't know how you're feeling. And here's where it gets so tricky, because I have taken to really making this connection, that disillusionment is akin to burnout. And burnout is very different from stress. I have done a lot of work to figure out the difference. And the three main indicators of burnout is number one, negativity and cynicism.

When we go to work and someone asks us how we are, and in our head we say, "I hate you." We know that we we're in that negative space, right?

 Ana Torres: Right, right.

Tina Boogren: The second indicator is a decreased sense of accomplishment or a lack of efficacy.

Ana Torres: Ooh.

Tina Boogren: And then the third indicator is that emotional exhaustion. And the scary part is, just as you said, the reason I'm so passionate about this is because if we have a school full of educators feeling that way, think how that translates to student achievement.

Ana Torres: Exactly.

Tina Boogren: The hardest part is when we're feeling that way, that is not a recipe for taking good care of ourselves, right?

Ana Torres: Correct. Correct.

Tina Boogren: That is the exact problem. The research is clear that burnout doesn't just go away on its own. That's where it gets tricky.

Ana Torres: Right.

Tina Boogren: We need hope. Don't get me wrong, but hope isn't a strategy. In other words, we can't say, "I am feeling, I am burned out. Hopefully tomorrow will be better," because it doesn't work that way.

Ana Torres: Acknowledging it is just kind of part one.

Tina Boogren: Part one, yes.

Ana Torres: What action are you going to take so that this burnout, as you mentioned, you don't sit in that. I really appreciate you sharing this, and so I'm thinking about those newer educators who are thinking about all of this in addition to all of the new things related to pedagogy and classroom management. All of those things. What words of encouragement do you have for educators who are balancing so much at one time?

Tina Boogren: Yes. So I'm going to, I am going to answer your question. It's going to sound, it's going to be a roundabout way.

Ana Torres: Yeah, it's okay.

Tina Boogren: So to acknowledge what you said is so true. So the research is really clear that the absolute most direct correlation to student achievement that we have control over is the teacher in the classroom.

Ana Torres: Absolutely.

Tina Boogren: So for years, of course, as we should, we have been emphasizing pedagogy and instructional strategies. As we should. Same. I have been an, uh, associate for Dr. Marzano for years and years and years. I know instruction. And when I was an instructional coach and mentor working with new teachers, I would have teachers that they're, they were showing me they were in dissolution, but I didn't know what to do, so I just kept shoving instructional strategies down their throat.

Ana Torres: Right.

Tina Boogren: And then I learned—oh, let me take a step back. And typically what I, my number one question that I'll ask is, "Tell me how you're sleeping." Oftentimes the tears will start flowing.

Ana Torres: Absolutely.

Tina Boogren: And so this is the reminder that, yes, of course we have to talk about instruction, but the magic isn't in the strategy. It's in the person providing that strategy. So this is where I always say it's an "and."

Ana Torres: Yes.

Tina Boogren: It's not instruction or self-care. And so when we think about whether you're a new teacher listening to this on your own, or someone that supports new teachers, how do we blend those two because our self-care cannot be on the backs of our students.

Ana Torres: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Tina Boogren: But, how do we balance those two? How do we find... because we also know when things are going well in our classroom, our whole life feels better.

Ana Torres: Correct.

Tina Boogren: Typically, disillusionment is this soup of, you know, not getting enough sleep, surviving on sugar and caffeine, and also some things are not going well in our classroom: student behaviors out of control, classroom management issues. So if we can tackle both of those, one begets the other and just everything starts to feel better. So name it to tame it, recognize when we're in it.

Ana Torres: Yes.

Tina Boogren: And then the key is, focus on instruction but also the wellness. And I always say, this is not the time to say, okay, starting Monday." Those famous words, right? I'm never eating sugar again. I'm going to bed. No, no, no, no. We're going to take the advice of James Clear from the phenomenal book, Atomic Habits. And we're going to aim to get 1% better. And this is where a mentor or a colleague can be really helpful in narrowing down those strategies or goals that a new teacher has. Because if we make it small enough that we can't not do it, we will do it, and once we start to feel better, then you can see that it just starts to kind of go from there. So that's why I really tell new teachers when you're, and anyone, when you're in disillusionment, tell someone. So you've got that thought partner.

Ana Torres: And I think, you know, it was a badge of honor to just muddle through it, work your 12 hours. But you know, we realized that really isn't the best way to go about that. So, no, with that, we want to be able to give better advice. So can you, Dr. Boogren, kind of give an example of how those two things can blend? How can instructional strategies and self-care be blended?

Tina Boogren: Absolutely, and, and I would say they have to be blended because again, one supports the other.

Ana Torres: Absolutely.

Tina Boogren: In the beginning of Teacher's Field Guide, each chapter is a phase, and I've matched essential instructional strategies and self-care strategies that correlate with that phase.

Ana Torres: That is so great.

Tina Boogren: Because things look different in disillusionment than they do in reflection. So in disillusionment, my main strategies to go back to are building strong relationships with students because in disillusionment we've probably hit a place, like you did, where we've got some kids that are driving us crazy, and we go back to that. The second one is emphasizing student growth. Because, especially as new teachers, we compare ourselves to veterans next door and we may not be seeing the same achievement. But we're missing the growth. So we're getting our brain to start looking for positives, because our brain will do whatever we tell it to do. And in disillusionment, we're naturally scanning the world for negative because that's where we are. And then one more strategy of recognizing positive student behavior. And then I have three suggested self-care strategies. One is gratitude, which sounds like this fluffy strategy, but we just mounds and mounds of research behind the power of gratitude. Second one is altruism. So doing something nice for someone else actually makes us feel better. If we wake up in the morning and decide we're going to engage in three acts of kindness today, that will start to change. And then the third strategy is just laughter. And in disillusionment, we're probably not laughing as much. And when you combine those together. You are tapping into that brain research that's giving our brain a different assignment and looking for the positive, and we will find it. If we commit to that practice, it will start to, as I say, raise the bottom of that, the lowest point of that dip and start to bring it up again.

Ana Torres: Like you said, these are small investments, right? That you can make to really be impactful when you are in these particular phases. And so, a lot of our listeners will be hearing this conversation for the first time in November, right?

Tina Boogren: Yeah.

Ana Torres: And you mentioned...

Tina Boogren: yeah. Yes.

Ana Torres: You already talked about how challenging these BER months can be, right?

Tina Boogren: Yep. Yep.

Ana Torres: And I'm, you know, as I'm recollecting here, you know, that's kind of when I started, you know, I didn't necessarily tell my principal anything until December, but November, super challenging for me because of the fact that I didn't feel that I could manage my class because of this one particular student.

And anyway, I'm glad that my principal talked me out of it, and I'm glad that my principal literally said to me, like, "Ana, you have been one of the few teachers that has actually made some really great gains with this student." And I'm like, "I have? Because I don't feel that I have. I feel like I'm not meeting him where he needs, you know, where he is."

And so, anyway, with that said, any specific advice for this time of year for newer teachers?

Tina Boogren: Yes. Yes. So that number one, that recognition, if, if you're listening to this, it's November and you're like, "Oh my gosh, they are speaking directly to me."

Ana Torres: Yes.

Tina Boogren: And, and what I would say, you know, here both Ana and I say that is normal. And I would say you are not doing anything wrong. The job is hard. It's just a hard time all the way around. And so that recognition. And then, I always say to just pause. And one of my, one of my analogies is to just remind yourself that you, we are glorified house plants. Or puppies, take your choice. Right? And what puppies and houseplant need, they need some water. And they need some rest. And they need to eat at regular times. And they need love, and they need sunshine, and they need to play, because I have yet to meet anyone in disillusionment that is nailing those areas. And so it's kind of, go back to basics.

My, my little tagline has been, just drink the stupid water. We need to, you know, maybe eat a vegetable. Those tiny things. And what's so fascinating, we know this, but the research also clearly backs this up: Those tiny things are not tiny at all. You will can change your life. Completely.

Ana Torres: And again, folks who are listening and feeling that they're in, in that, now you can identify it, right?

Tina Boogren: Yes.

Ana Torres: You're in a phase that's normal. So we're going to take a step back really quickly now too with, in this episode, we talked about where to start when you're a newer educator and everything is new, right? That's kind of where we've been unpacking that.

Tina Boogren: Mm-hmm.

Ana Torres: Any like special advice or additional advice you'd like to share for the listeners about that topic?

Tina Boogren: Yes. Being a new teacher is so distinctly unique because it's the one profession, and maybe there's others, but where in our profession, the brand-new teacher is expected to be as knowledgeable as the teacher next door that's been doing this for however many years. And so, I know that you've shared this with new teachers, with your listeners, but it's worth repeating that offering ourselves grace. And trying really hard to stay out of comparison. You know, the quote, comparison is the thief of joy. When we can just go back to, I loved your example earlier, how your principal helped you see growth that you were not even aware of with that particular student?

It's those small wins that we look over. If we're not looking for them, we can miss them. And we just keep thinking, "I'm not as good as that person next door." Well, they've been doing it for a long time and our job is hard. It takes a while. You know, expertise research is really clear. It's a minimum of 10 years of deliberate practice to get really good at something hard.

So I'll give a real specific example. I was an English teacher and I dreamed of a time in my classroom that I could have small groups reading different novels. This is what everyone else in my department was doing. My brain could not figure out how to make that happen. And so the first year we all read the same novel.

And you know what? That was just fine. Right? And knowing I, someday am going to get to the place where I can have different students reading all different novels and be able to figure out all that differentiation. But to start us off, I just was not at that place. And to recognize that that's okay.

Ana Torres: What a powerful conversation you and I have had. But now it's time for a really fun new segment that I warned you about, wisdom nugget time.

Tina Boogren: I love it.

Ana Torres: Let's start. If you weren't an educator, what would you do for work?

Tina Boogren: I would be a writer, a full-time writer.

Ana Torres: I see that in your future.

What's a resource article, podcast, blog, or book... anything that you'd really recommend for educators? Obviously your books, your extensive research would be part of that, but what else would you recommend?

Tina Boogren: I would recommend the podcast, Happier with Gretchen Rubin. I love it. It's a quick little, like 30 minutes. It comes out once a week and it's just filled with research-backed tiny little strategies to help us be happier.

Ana Torres: I like that. Like that.

What was the strangest item you had in your classroom?

Tina Boogren: It's only strange because it's 2025, but, um, I always, I'm obsessed with music and playing music and using music all the time, so I had a boombox in my classroom.

Ana Torres: Guilty.

Tina Boogren: Yes, I would go to Target and buy these instrumental CDs that the kids complained about, but then when I didn't play it, they were like, "Where's the music?"

Ana Torres: Gosh. Same. And, you know, the fact that we're saying boombox literally lets everyone know what decade...

Tina Boogren: agree. Agree.

Ana Torres: ...we're in, right?

Tina Boogren: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ana Torres: So tell us the name of a mentor that you've had and one quality that made him a great mentor. I mean, we know who stopped you in the hallway, but ...

Tina Boogren: Yes. So I, I, I just want to give more kudos to her. Um. So Mary Dee Seibold was her name.

Ana Torres: All right, Mary! You get your shout out, Mary!

Tina Boogren: She just meant the world to me. Not only that particular day, but my entire career as a new teacher. She encouraged me to send in some of my reflections for publication.

She just listened to me as a whole person and as someone that could offer that instructional support. And I was newly moved to Colorado from Iowa. She kind of became my second mother. My mom was far away, and it just, I mean, just had a massive impact on me that I just am so grateful for her.

Ana Torres: Wow. It's, it's amazing when you have someone pour into you in that way, right?

 Tina Boogren: Yes, she really did.

Ana Torres: And it all started with you almost quitting.

Tina Boogren: Yes, exactly.

Ana Torres: Right?

Tina Boogren: Exactly.

Ana Torres: Now, before we go, I ask this of all of my guests, is there a district close to your heart that you'd like to shout out, or anyone you'd like to shout out at this moment?

Tina Boogren: For the subject area of this particular podcast, I am going to shout out two places that I get to go specifically work with new teachers for an ongoing basis.

So one is Montgomery Public Schools in Montgomery, Alabama.

Ana Torres: Okay.

Tina Boogren: I love, I get to be part of their teacher residency program, which is incredible. And then the other one is Region Nine, which is in Wichita Falls, Texas. I get to go work with them a few times a year. They're brand-new teachers. Both of these programs are, oh my gosh, they are wrapping their arms around new teachers in profound ways. I'm a small part of the bigger picture, but whenever I can go back somewhere. Right? That's always, and have this ongoing relationship and watch these teachers grow, is a huge gift.

Ana Torres: Oh, great. Well, I don't even know how to like end this or like...

Tina Boogren: I know. Let's just...

Ana Torres: ...finish this, right?

Tina Boogren: ...Keep talking forever.

Ana Torres: Dr. Tina Boogren, we were so happy to have you on our podcast today and I hope that we are able to do this again sometime.

Tina Boogren: I would love... it would be my honor. Absolutely.

Ana Torres: Thank you so much.

Tina Boogren: Thank you.

Ana Torres: That was Dr. Tina Boogren, longtime educator, author, and consultant. Please check out the show notes for links to some of her books that we discussed. Also her podcast, Self-Care for Educators. And now Classroom Insider Eric Cross, he is back.

Eric Cross: Dr. Tina Boogren. This should be a must-listen for every teacher in their first five years, and, and really every teacher in general, because a lot of teachers who are master teachers or veteran teachers or seasoned educators are also mentoring.

Ana Torres: Yes. Tina gave us a lot, didn't she?

Eric Cross: She did.

Ana Torres: Let's start with your first takeaway, Eric.

Eric Cross: Yeah. My first one was it, just to put it simply is, it's a phase and not a failure. Another way of saying it is, normalize your experience with the phases of teaching. And so, recognize that the feelings of being overwhelmed are like survival, or even wanting to quit, disillusionment. These are, these are predictable and cyclical.

At the end of each day or week, take like 30 seconds to look at the chart and identify where you are and just notice it without judgment.

Ana Torres: And I like that you spotlighted this, this one first, because it is a phase, right? Not a failure. Meaning, we all go through this. And so I know for me, when I shared my story, which I've shared it before on the podcast, that moment of disillusionment, I felt like a failure, right?

Eric Cross: Mm-hmm.

Ana Torres: So like knowing that that is normal, that that was a normal phase that I would go through, and knowing how to get through it, really was kind of an aha moment for me, right? Um. And I didn't have Tina's book; I didn't have her visual. So having that, you know, you kind of giving that tip of, hey, print this out and remember that this is normal, is a tangible thing to do right away.

Eric Cross: Yeah.

Ana Torres: Let's talk about your second takeaway.

Eric Cross: The next one is, is spot burnout and speak up.

Ana Torres: Ooh.

Eric Cross: As much as I'm a kind of a lone wolf and I do my own thing, like that could be to my own detriment. I have to remind myself like, "Cross, you've got to talk to people." But one of the things she said that resonated with me was learn to spot negativity and cynicism so that you can act before you're in full blown crisis.

Here's just a moment for me. I experienced this this year, where in, on Mondays after the weekend, I always start my class with a weekend update. And I ask students, I take like five or 10 minutes, and say, "Hey, what'd you do over the weekend?" And students raise their hand and they, they tell me. Well, I stopped doing it for weeks.

I wasn't doing it. And I was going like, "Why, why am I not doing this?

Ana Torres: Right.

Eric Cross: I just was getting into the lesson. I was all about business. And I started looking at my heart and going like, "I'm not in a good place right now. I'm not in a bad place. But I'm not in the place where I thrive."

Ana Torres: You weren't in your optimal space.

Eric Cross: Exactly. And I don't like that because I know that if I am, whatever I'm feeling is not just impacting me.

Ana Torres: Right.

Eric Cross: And so the emotional exhaustion, the not feeling like you're being successful or, or very real. And there's this indicator that she spoke to, it's called, uh, Maslach's Burnout Inventory. So the MBI.

It's like the gold standard in measuring burnout. I didn't even, I didn't even know this existed until I, again, you know, Ana, you know, with the podcast episodes, I'm diving in going like...

Ana Torres: Yes! No, we learned so much. This episode had so much like research to unpack.

Eric Cross: Right?'

Ana Torres: It was great.

Eric Cross: You know, its three dimensions and its that emotional exhaustion, cynicism, and negativity, which look; in every industry it's there, but especially in teaching, there's a lot of things that you could be cynical about.

And you know, I tell my teachers, "In the darkness, you can curse the darkness or you can light a candle. And you know, one candle can light 15,000 without losing its flame, and it takes one person to, to blow one out. And so you have to protect yourself from that."

Ana Torres: Wow. That's true. That's true.

Eric Cross: So what are some steps? You know, first one, write down the three indicators. Name it to tame it.

Ana Torres: Yes. And she said that, yes.

Eric Cross: Negativity, I'm not feeling successful and I'm exhausted. Put it on a sticky note so that you can, you can see those things so you can check in with each one. Identify your person. So tell someone what you're feeling and then ask for help. That's the other one.

So practice on something small, "Hey, can you watch my class for two minutes so I can run to the restroom?" Can I tell you, Ana? And I know people listening to this, I...

Ana Torres: uh-oh, here we go!

Eric Cross: When I... it is too much of a dopamine hit in my brain when I get to use the bathroom during class. Like when I actually have to go.

Ana Torres: Absolutely!

Eric Cross: We have, we have the longest stamina of bladders, like for teachers.

Ana Torres: And that's not something to be proud of. That's not a good thing, Eric.

Eric Cross: No, no, no. It's not. But the, it's true.

Ana Torres: But we should never feel guilty about asking for those small moments.

Eric Cross: No.

Ana Torres: Um, and again, I talk about, a lot about badge of honor of, "Oh, I can do this and I can work 12 hours," or, you know, "I can work and not have to use the bathroom," as you mentioned, but it's, that isn't a badge of honor.

Asking for help is also allowing you, giving yourself the grace that you need. There's, there's, it's vulnerable, but it's necessary Eric, right? To be able to honor yourself to say, "I need help," so that your burnout phase isn't where you're burning out, like you said, blowing that candle out where it can't be re-lit.

Eric Cross: Exactly.

Ana Torres: And so what are we going to close out with this time? Because I know you have a third one.

Eric Cross: The last one is, it's "and," and not, "or."

Ana Torres: Uhhh.

Eric Cross: And aim for 1% better. And, and this was founded on the book, uh, Atomic Cabot. She talks about this, by James Clear. And, and the point in this was stop framing wellness and effective instruction is like either/or. Like they're deeply connected. And you have to remember that because I tell people, I say, "Look, I love on kids, and I'm like, and sometimes I get to teach science."

Ana Torres: Ahh.

Eric Cross: Because for middle school, like that's what it is. And for many educators, that's what it is, depending where you're at. You're raising humans.

You fall asleep at night caring about other people's kids, and sometimes your day is just teaching someone a life skill. And that's where they're at. And hopefully that's going to get them to learning. And that draws from you. That draws a, a, some from you in a way that other industries don't.

Ana Torres: Absolutely.

Eric Cross: And so if you're not taking care of yourself in addition to improving your pedagogy, you're going to be anemic in, in one area.

And so instead of trying to overhaul everything and, you know, do retreats and things like that—all of those are great, but to make it manageable, try just doing 1% better in both. So an example might be, "This week I'm going to practice one positive greeting at the door for my students." "I'm going to end my cell phone time at 7 p.m., and I'm not going to touch it." "I'm going to make sure that I go to bed a little bit earlier." Um. "I'm going to work on classroom procedures when students walk in." Just, just one simple thing that's measurable. But it's not a huge overhaul in your practice, and you're going to feel that win. And then also that one thing that you could do to take care of yourself. They don't need to be huge, dramatic changes. "I'm going to walk for 10 minutes." "I'm going to lift, lift weights for 15 minutes for a week consistently." It takes about, depending on the research, 21 days to 30 days to form a habit. She said, "Eating a vegetable." Can I tell you that I, I was listening to the podcast. I was listening to the podcast, and I was eating, uh, starch and protein with no vegetables. And I feel, I go, I go, "I feel personally attacked right now."

Ana Torres: Well, that's another default of ours, right? Is to just kind of stuff our faces with carbs and, uh, lots of protein. Right?

Eric Cross: I, I couldn't remember the last time I was like, "When have I had a leafy green?"

Ana Torres: Kind of hard to put a, a leafy, green or a vegetable in our drawer.

Eric Cross: Exactly.

Ana Torres: Let's do a quick recap here. Our three takeaways are one: Remember, it's a phase, not a failure. You're going to go through these cycles and it's okay to acknowledge where you are and prepare yourself for the next phase, right? Number two: Stop the burnout. Speak up. Make connections with folks. And then three, which is powerful: It's "and," and not, "or." Aim for that 1% better. And it seems like Eric and I are both on the, on the bandwagon of we're going to do our veggies. Okay?

Eric Cross: Sounds great, Ana. Great episode.

Ana Torres: Thanks for listening to Beyond My Years from Amplify. Next time around, how to find your teaching style and see student behavior challenges reduce along the way.

I'll be joined for that one by an incredible educator out of Florida, Neysa Olivares-Torres.

Neysa Olivares-Torres: Understanding too that you, that a teaching style is not just like you find it once and then that's it, right? It's ever-evolving.

 Ana Torres: The best way to get all of our new episodes as soon as they drop, is to subscribe to Beyond my Years on the podcast platform of your choice. While you're there, do us a favor and leave us a short review. I'm your host, Ana Torres. Our Classroom Insider is Eric Cross. Our music is by Andrew Smolan. Until next time, please remember to reach out and say thank you to a seasoned educator who has shaped your life.