Beyond My Years

Empowering diverse learners in math, starring Keri Brown

• Amplify Education • Season 2 • Episode 7

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Alabama K–2 educator, national presenter, and curriculum author Keri Brown discusses strategies for supporting students in the math classroom. While Keri focuses on math in the episode, many of her takeaways can be applied to all subjects. Keri breaks down the power of small-group instruction, the value of multisensory hands-on manipulatives, and the role of intervention. She also explains how to help students who may already be struggling feel comfortable and confident talking about math. Classroom Insider Eric Cross then joins Ana to reinforce the importance of implementing a routine in the classroom.

Show notes:

Quotes:

"When you see the light bulb come on in a kid and I'm like, Ah this is why [I teach]." —Keri Brown

"Sometimes it is hard. You're like, 'Why do I do this? The kids are this, the parents are this.' But then, you get that sweet note." —Keri Brown

"We start small with just talking to them, helping them figure out how to have a conversation about math. They can talk about everything else, but we have to teach them how to talk about math. We have to give them the words, give them the tools." —Keri Brown

"Predictable routines really help students feel safe because they know what's going to happen." —Eric Cross

"It's impactful to spend that little extra time saying, 'Let me build some relationships and show these babies how to be students in my classroom.'" —Ana Torres

[00:00:00] Keri Brown: I think the easiest thing is just doing it. Like no matter what it is that you're doing, just do it daily.

[00:00:10] Ana Torres: This is Ana Torres and welcome to Beyond My Years from Amplify. On Beyond My Years, we know teachers never stop learning. That's why we bring you tried-and-true tips, incredible stories, and research-backed strategies directly from seasoned educators and leading experts.

And I am here once again with our Classroom Insider Eric Cross. Eric Cross, I see that you're in your amazing classroom. How are things going?

[00:00:39] Eric Cross: They're great. We're rolling. I have a great group of students, so we're having a lot of fun. It's good to be here.

[00:00:42] Ana Torres: Ooh, I love to hear the fun part. In each episode, we tackle a different challenge and today's topic is, effectively supporting students with learning differences.

We're going to hear about some particular strategies for supporting students in the math classroom, but the lessons are going to be broader here. Eric, is this a challenge you've ever faced?

[00:01:05] Eric Cross: Ana I, is this a challenge that I haven't ever faced? I feel like this is, this is...

[00:01:10] Ana Torres: Turn that around a little bit.

[00:01:11] Eric Cross: Yeah. Just...

[00:01:11] Ana Torres: Turn that question around.

[00:01:12] Eric Cross: Has there ever been a time when you haven't taught students to learning...? you know, and look, we all have learning differences.

[00:01:17] Ana Torres: Yeah.

[00:01:17] Eric Cross: Our students do too. And I think effective teaching, you have to be able to accommodate that. But the students and the learning differences and the challenges vary year by year.

Even students with the same learning differences vary by personality. So this is something that everybody experiences. And I think to really dial in your teaching, having the skills to be able to meet the needs of those students is really important.

[00:01:37] Ana Torres: I like that. I like that. Having the skills to support those students.

And so with that, to help us on today's topic, I'm going to be joined by Keri Brown. She's the author of My Kindergarten Math Workbook, as well as dozens and dozens of pieces on educational topics. And you might also know her from Instagram by her handle, Enchanted Kindergarten. So I'm going to bring her on now, and we are going to unpack this episode a little bit later on, Eric.

[00:02:08] Eric Cross: I'm excited to listen.

[00:02:11] Ana Torres: Today's guest is an experienced K-2 educator, national presenter, and a curriculum author from Alabama. She has taught kindergarten and first grade and has also supported students through K-2 intervention. That's a passion of mine. I can't wait to talk to Keri today.

She's going to share strategies to address the classroom challenge at the heart of this episode: effectively supporting students with learning differences in math.

Keri Brown, thank you so much for joining me.

[00:02:45] Keri Brown: That was fabulous. Thank you.

[00:02:48] Ana Torres: You're very welcome. It's always very interesting when I do the intros and you know, guests allow me to give them their flowers.

So Keri, thank you for sitting there patiently. She had a huge smile. You can't see it. It's a huge smile like, "Wow. Yes, I'm all of that in a bag of chips." Now, Keri, how many years have you been in education?

[00:03:08] Keri Brown: This is my 18th year.

[00:03:10] Ana Torres: Would you say the decade plus eight gives you, you know, a little cred and would you consider yourself a seasoned educator at this point?

[00:03:19] Keri Brown: Not at all. I still feel like I could be a newbie because there is always so many new things, the children are forever changing—like you think you know it all and then you get that group of kids or that class, you're like, "Oh my gosh, I know absolutely nothing." So, no, I, I still feel new.

[00:03:40] Ana Torres: Now you have been a long-time kindergarten and first-grade teacher, and so that means you teach all subjects, but we use that term that we use self-contained, right?

[00:03:50] Keri Brown: Yes.

[00:03:51] Ana Torres: But you ended up writing a book about math.

[00:03:54] Keri Brown: I did.

[00:03:55] Ana Torres: And you're joining us. I know. And I'm excited to like unpack this with you. And today you are joining us to talk about a math topic.

[00:04:03] Keri Brown: I am.

[00:04:03] Ana Torres: So could you tell us the story of, first, how you wound up in teaching, because it's, it is a great story y'all. And then how you found yourself kind of gravitating towards math.

[00:04:14] Keri Brown: So, as a young child, I was very into technology. And so I was a computer information system major for three years.

[00:04:25] Ana Torres: Ooh.

[00:04:25] Keri Brown: And then in that third year I started volunteering at a local school, and I was actually going to a third-grade class at the time, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I love this!" And I started skipping class, going to the school, just spinning out, like I was supposed to be leaving the school and going back to class.

I wouldn't go to class. I just stayed at the school all day and I was like, "Maybe this is what I really want to do." And so I changed my major after the third year. And then went into elementary education, and of course my parents lost their minds. They're like, "What? You don't make any money in teaching, blah, blah, blah." You know, go where the money is in tech. But that is not where my heart was.

[00:05:09] Ana Torres: When you said you started volunteering at this local school, what was, how did you start volunteering there? Like what, how did you get to that?

[00:05:17] Keri Brown: So the funny thing is I thought I wanted to be in a sorority.

[00:05:20] Ana Torres: Ahhh.

[00:05:20] Keri Brown: So you know, to put on an application, you need to have some type of community service. I never ended up doing the sorority, which is hilarious, because I just fell in love with education. And then I had my thing because. I think I just needed something and that was my something I think I was missing.

[00:05:38] Ana Torres: Wow. And you heard her say she was skipping school to be in school. I love that part. Now take it from there, Keri, and how did you get to teaching math?

[00:05:51] Keri Brown: So, I've always loved everything that came with teaching. And when everybody started going down the Science of Reading, I'm a bit of a rebel, and they're like, "Reading this, reading that, go to this training, do..."—and so of course you're going to tell me to do reading, so I'm going to go do the opposite, because that's just who I am.

And so I started going, learning more about math, doing math trainings on my own, just doing research, buying books, and just fell way more in love with it. I mean, I still love reading.

[00:06:24] Ana Torres: So how did your math, you know, instruction and your math experiences in the classroom grow over time?

[00:06:30] Keri Brown: So, I'm going to go back a little bit actually. When I first got hired to be a teacher, in Alabama there's this thing called AMSTI. And so you had to go and do this training. And so I had never taught, so I instantly go to this training in the summer before my first year of school. And so they, part of it is a math training, and so that's kind of what I knew, was very hands-on, manipulatives, very exploring type of math.

And so that's what I started. But then when I started doing research, I didn't really know the why around a lot of it. Like, you know how they'll come tell you, "Oh, do this," and you hear these new words and I'm like, "Okay, I'm doing this, but why am I doing this?"

And so that's kind of where my research came in, because I'm like, I know this is where my kids are, and I see, like when I moved from kindergarten to first grade a couple times, I'm like, "Okay, there's a gap here. Like, what is it that I'm not doing?" And it's because I didn't know why we were doing what we were told to do. And once I figured out why I was doing certain things, I knew how to do it in a different way.

Because it's just like, "Oh, okay, go do these number talks." Or, "Oh, we're going to do quick images." Well why am I doing that? And so then I went down this whole thing, even with just number sense?

[00:07:55] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:07:55] Keri Brown: You know, people say number sense, there's like nine different parts of number sense. I didn't know that. Like nobody's teaching us this.

[00:08:03] Ana Torres: You mentioned the research though. Like you knew, probably knew you were pretty, as I, I still use the word dope. You pretty, you, you know, you were a dope teacher, but like you said, the why behind it...

[00:08:13] Keri Brown: And it's like, you know, it's not our fault that we don't know.

[00:08:16] Ana Torres: Right.

[00:08:16] Keri Brown: Because we aren't taught a lot of these things. It's, they teach you like a little bit. They're like, "Oh, we just want them to do quick images." "Oh, let's go do number talks." But like why? If we start to know why we need to do these things and why they're important. I think a lot of teachers would be doing a lot more. I mean, we already do more, but we would do it in a different way.

[00:08:37] Ana Torres: So with that, Keri, you mentioned research. I'm thinking about newer teachers that are listening to us, you know, have this conversation. Is there anything specific that you found super helpful that you kind of want to pass on to those newer teachers coming on board?

[00:08:54] Keri Brown: I think the easiest thing Is just doing it.

No matter what it is that you're doing, just do it daily in a routine, like set a little routine, pick one thing to do, and just make sure you're consistently doing it. Because if anybody's like me who's listening, I will start an idea and then here comes this little birdie telling me a new idea, and then I'll go with that new idea and quit doing what I was previously doing.

And then every couple weeks, it's always something new and your kids are always doing something new and they never get into a true routine of doing things that'll help. And so even if it's just counting every single day.

[00:09:34] Ana Torres: I was going to say, give me an example. You mentioned like there were some routines that you changed based on the why.

So give me an example of a routine you had and a routine that you changed because of you had a better understanding.

[00:09:47] Keri Brown: So I'll just take counting since I said that. You know, a lot of people use videos to count with the kids. Well, I was somebody who would do that. And I really wasn't listening to my kids count, like I thought they could count.

[00:10:03] Ana Torres: Okay.

[00:10:03] Keri Brown: And then when it was time for report cards and things, they would come over to me, you know, and count one-on-one. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they can't count". We practiced this every day, but it was me with a video. And so I kind of laid back from the videos, maybe like one a week. And so just for like kindergarten for example, like what we're doing right now, we do an oral count. We count to a hundred, but then we also focus on a certain set of numbers. So we go around in a circle, which is this little thing in a circle where each person has to say a number. So I'm hearing every person say a number. And of course they need help in kindergarten, so I'm pointing or touching their head, so they know it's their turn. But they go around "one," the next person says "two," and then when they get to 10, the 10th person sits. And so they think it's a game. They all giggle, laugh, or whatever.

[00:10:49] Ana Torres: Oh, that sounds fun.

[00:10:50] Keri Brown: And then it starts over and goes to 10. Once we've got 10 down, we're going to go to 25.

[00:10:55] Ana Torres: Nice.

[00:10:55] Keri Brown: And then we keep going. And then once you start doing skip counting, I mean, it's the same activity, I just change what we're going to, our magnitude. Just whatever it is, I try to make sure everybody's saying something, so they're practicing every day. And then like for the 10, the last person who's standing, has to count to 10 by themselves.

And then everybody's sitting there mouthing it. So they're like, "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6," and then we all cheer or whatever, and then sit down. But, I'm able to hear each person every day say a number, even though it's not the whole thing. But when they get back to small group with me, if I know it's like a couple people who need a little help, then they can come over and count with me.

But just changing a little part of our routine, so it's kind of fun, but getting them to do it and not just watching a video, because then half of them aren't saying anything anyway. And you can't tell, because they're jumping around and dancing to the song and not actually counting.

[00:11:49] Ana Torres: Little shifts, little adjustments. And that can be for newer teachers starting out, and also for even teachers that have been doing this for a long time. And so thanks for that amazing advice. Are there things that you wish you knew about math instruction if you could go back and talk to the newer Keri Brown?

[00:12:07] Keri Brown: Oh, small groups and intervention is very important.

I had no idea what that was when I was a teacher, and this goes for reading too. Like nobody taught me that I was supposed to be pulling kids to my table and having small groups. I was teaching whole group probably for like the first three years of my teaching because nobody told me.

And then one day somebody was like, "Are you pulling groups?" And I was like, "Groups for what? Like what are you talking about?" But the way my kids have changed the years where I consistently pull groups and do intervention, to where some years, you know, things happen and you can't always get to every group every year, or if you have a ton of kids, you can't see everybody every day. And just the difference in how they are is night and day.

And I'm like, "Oh my gosh." It's because I can see, put my eyeballs on them, see what they're doing. They're moving cubes, they're counting in front of me, they're working out their problems in front of me, and I know what I, if somebody walked in the room and say, "How is so and so doing," I could be able to tell them exactly what they need help with.

My first three years, I couldn't do that because I, I wasn't working with them the way I should have been working with them. And that's the one thing I wish I did differently and like they've graduated high school now and I feel so bad. But like, you know, those first years of kids I...

[00:13:27] Ana Torres: Well, we do the best we can do, you know, with the information that we have at the time.

I think all of us want to focus on, I know one of my biggest focuses was always supporting all learners. And that can be a hard task to juggle, right? Because there are so many very, you know, varied ways to teach students in various ways that students learn. So with that said, and you used two words that are near and dear to my heart, small group, but intervention as a former interventionist, I was an interventionist for five years. That, to me, was always my happy place of, how do I support all learners in addition to my most struggling learners who may not be able to get everything they need in the class. So we're going to shift our focus there. Thank you so much for kind of taking us through your story, how you became a teacher, what your parents even said about it.

[00:14:20] Keri Brown: Sure.

[00:14:20] Ana Torres: How you ended up in math, Ms. Rebel. So let's focus now on specifically on how we can, you know, you can give us tips on supporting students in math that have learning differences. What should we be paying attention to regarding math and students that may have learning differences in math?

[00:14:38] Keri Brown: Oh my gosh. I feel like this is something I wasn't really paying attention to until I became an interventionist and I was seeing so many kids from so many different rooms and, nothing against the teachers, you know, they thought, "Oh, they're doing great, they can do this." But then when we started assessing all the kids, because we would assess the entire grade, and we're like, "Oh, well they actually can't explain how they got this answer." "Oh, they actually can't write it out. They can't show their work." "Oh, they actually can't use manipulatives. They have no idea what to do with the base 10. They have no idea what to do with the cubes." "Oh, they can't show me how to regroup with cubes," like there were so many little things. And we wanted to focus on those kids who were doing okay, but could easily fall behind because of the small things. We were trying to make sure those kids didn't fall behind, even though, you know, a lot of like intervention is, "Oh, the very low, low." Like, we wanted to do both.

[00:15:43] Ana Torres: Right. Right.

[00:15:44] Keri Brown: So we did "intervention kids" and what we called "enrichment." And enrichment was just the middle-of-the-road children who were just getting by.

[00:15:54] Ana Torres: The cus, I call them the cuspy babies, right?

[00:15:56] Keri Brown: Yep.

[00:15:56] Ana Torres: The little cuspy babies.

[00:15:56] Keri Brown: Yep. That can use a little extra help. And it's like that's really trying to reach all of the kids.

[00:16:03] Ana Torres: Okay. Yes.

[00:16:04] Keri Brown: We can help so many who are right there in the middle move and get to like a green status, instead of being yellow or red or you know, falling behind.

[00:16:13] Ana Torres: Let's dive into some specific strategies, okay? What would you like to recommend to our listeners out there as far as how they can effectively support students in math with learning differences?

[00:16:25] Keri Brown: I think the easiest thing, because I'm somebody who really likes to keep it easy.

[00:16:30] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:16:30] Keri Brown: Because our life is already super hard, and I honestly think the easiest thing is putting more manipulatives in children's hands.

[00:16:40] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:16:40] Keri Brown: And just watching them work and being able to talk and explain their thinking. Because just from doing that very simple thing, you can take notes.

You're like, "Okay, we need to work on this." "Okay, they can do this great. We need to shift a little bit on this." And it's just that little bitty thing, giving them manipulatives to move around and explain why they move things the way they moved them, how they group things, and then just being able to verbalize to you, and I know that's something we kind of talked about before, being able to think out their thinking is very difficult.

[00:17:14] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:17:15] Keri Brown: And so that's a whole nother thing of just getting them to talk to you and being able to explain it. If we could just start there, because then when they do have to take these assessments and they do have to do all this other stuff, they don't know how to explain how they got that answer.

And so like, how can we help them get to that point? And I think part of it is just having your kids in small group, or even in whole group, just teaching them how to have a discussion, how to ask questions about what they don't know, because sometimes they don't even know what they don't know.

And that's me sometimes. Sometimes I don't know what I don't know. Like I didn't know I was supposed to be teaching small group. I didn't know to ask about that because I just had no clue. And kids are the exact same. You know, if we start small with just talking to them, helping them figure out how to have a conversation about math, because they can talk about everything else.

[00:18:07] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:18:08] Keri Brown: But we have to teach them how to talk about math. And we have to give them the words, we have to give them the tools, and it's just putting things in their hands and being able to help them explain what they're doing.

[00:18:17] Ana Torres: And that is great tangible information. And manipulatives can be hands-on. And I used to use interactive digital tools as well. It's just allowing students to be able to manipulate...

[00:18:29] Keri Brown: Yes.

[00:18:30] Ana Torres: ...the math concepts, right?

[00:18:32] Keri Brown: Yes.

[00:18:32] Ana Torres: Tell me about a specific moment where you learned that that was a small adjustment to make.

[00:18:39] Keri Brown: I will tell you something that worked really well, and this was actually last school year. I had some kids who were 8 years old, and they really were working on more like pre-K level.

[00:18:51] Ana Torres: Okay.

[00:18:52] Keri Brown: And, they came so far, but something that I was really trying to get them to just understand is that numbers are made up of other numbers. But how do you get a child to understand it?

[00:19:07] Ana Torres: Ah.

[00:19:07] Keri Brown: And so me using words with them didn't work.

[00:19:10] Ana Torres: Right. That probably was a very abstract concept for them.

[00:19:13] Keri Brown: Yes. Yes. So I actually used something called math stackers for different reasons. But then one day, for whatever reason, when I was trying to get them to understand this, I picked up the math stacker and it's different little sizes. So like a 1 is very small and the 2, you know, is double the 1, but you can stack them almost.

And so I showed them, but I didn't tell them the answer. And so I wanted them to kind of figure it out. And I was like, "Hey, okay, if we have a 5, what else could we fit inside of that?" And I put all the other numbers up there. And of course they picked up like a 9. And I'm like, "Oh, does that stack?"

They're like, "No, that's too big." In their mind, they're seeing, "Okay, this one isn't inside of a 5." And that's kind of something that I would've never been able to just use with words and help them see. Then they finally figure it out, "Oh, a 3 can go, can be inside of a 5." And then that's when we can kind of figure out part, part, whole, like we started moving on from there.

"Oh, a three and what could make a 5?" And then we can kind of see, "Oh, a 2 fits." And then we say, "Oh, those stack up." But I could have never just told them that.

[00:20:24] Ana Torres: Talk about multisensory, right?

[00:20:26] Keri Brown: Mm-hmm. Wait, hold on. Let me get one.

[00:20:28] Ana Torres: And I love it. This is a true teacher moment. Miss Keri Brown is actually showing me these math stackers and holding them up so I can see it. I'm looking at a 5 right now.

[00:20:38] Keri Brown: And so, so I don't tell them this, but it has these little notches on the side. And of course, some children are going to figure it out. There's 5. But the 3, I'm looking at a 3, and so then it's 2 left. So then you can have like 3 and 2.

[00:20:53] Ana Torres: I can guarantee that those 8-year-old babies really appreciated when they actually were able to visualize it and understand the concept.

Now, one of the things we also talked about, Keri, was a challenge of getting students to talk, getting students to actually think critically about their thinking. Could you share with our listeners a little bit more about what you mean by that? And why is that such an important topic?

[00:21:21] Keri Brown: So I was in APLC with somebody from our state, and I can't remember the full discussion that we were having, but part of our discussion was, how they were showing their work and just being able to explain it. And you know the question, I said, "Well, my issue in intervention is just even getting them to open their mouths and talk. And so how do I back up and teach them how to talk? How do I do this in intervention settings? How does the general ed teacher do this?"

And we all just kind of sat and looked at each other. And so it's like, how do you get a child, 5, 6, 7, 8-year-olds, to verbalize something. And nobody really knew how to do that. And I'm like, "Okay, well if you who are, you know, more experienced and more, have more expertise than I do, you're unsure. Well then how are we supposed to do it? How is the general ed teacher supposed to do it?"

[00:22:18] Ana Torres: Right.

[00:22:18] Keri Brown: And I think that's something that, not just in Alabama, I think that's an everywhere issue of where we just have a difficult time getting children to explain their thinking, but a lot of it is because they don't even know what they're doing.

They're just writing out some numbers. They get the answer, it looks nice. "Oh, that's the answer. Oh, I got it right." Or they figured out some little algorithm in their head to get the answer. But they don't know why the answer is the answer. And so I think a lot of it is we have to go back and have them to know again the why, because here I am the girl who always wants to know the why on everything. I think the kids need to know the why on everything when it comes to math.

[00:22:58] Ana Torres: It is very important and there is like no quick fix to this, right Keri? There's not a quick fix. But I'm real curious if you thought about any potential strategies to kind of start the dialogue, because I found, even with my fourth graders, it was just kind of getting started, getting the juices flowing. How would you do that?

[00:23:18] Keri Brown: So it's funny, since I am back in kindergarten now.

[00:23:23] Ana Torres: Aha.

[00:23:23] Keri Brown: My brain is a little different now.

[00:23:26] Ana Torres: Right, right.

[00:23:26] Keri Brown: And so one thing that I'm definitely doing different this year, I'm starting math talks a whole lot earlier. And just...

[00:23:35] Ana Torres: Oh, well talk, oh wait, math talks. Tell us a little bit about that.

[00:23:38] Keri Brown: I mean, it's, it's basically like number talk.

[00:23:40] Ana Torres: Okay.

[00:23:40] Keri Brown: But, it could be anything related to math. So even if it's just a picture with, let's just say it's a picture on a farm, there's some farm animals, and for kindergarten— because I have 4-year-olds right now, 4 or 5-year-olds, just getting them to tell me, "Oh, I see two horses," or even, "Oh, that ball is bigger than the blue ball." Anything vocabulary-wise, when it comes to math, just getting them to have a conversation about it and not just pointing or just saying, "Oh, just because I know," because sometimes they'll say "it's just because my brain told me." No, that's not how you got the answer.

[00:24:20] Ana Torres: Don't you love that answer? My brain told me to say that.

[00:24:23] Keri Brown: Yeah.

[00:24:24] Ana Torres: So like even with 4, 5, 6-year-olds, it can be done.

[00:24:29] Keri Brown: It can. But you have to start from the very start, and that's the thing, you have to be consistent with doing it. And so I can't start it and then do it for two weeks and then quit and try to pick it up three months later and think, "Oh, they're going to be so good at this."

It has to be a very routine. Now, this isn't something you have to do every day, but if you say, okay, I'm going to do this three times a week," you need to do it three times a week. Counting collection. That's another routine that we'll be doing where they're going to have to talk about counting and talk about what they're counting and how they counted it.

Something that I make my kids do is always talk in a complete sentence. And so that also is true when it comes to math. So they can't just tell me if I say, "How many bears do you have?" They can't just tell me five. They have to say, "I have five bears."

[00:25:18] Ana Torres: I have.

[00:25:18] Keri Brown: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:19] Ana Torres: Awesome.

[00:25:19] Keri Brown: And so then we're just getting in the habit of speaking in full sentences and you telling me all the things that I need to know.

[00:25:26] Ana Torres: Would you say these strategies, like these routines that you talk about, are applicable to any subject area?

[00:25:33] Keri Brown: Yes. This could be with anything. I run my reading centers a lot like how I run my math centers. It's very routine. My kids know what to do. I have them talking in sentences. I have them, you know, very independent.

[00:25:50] Ana Torres: You know, keeping students at the center of it, right?

[00:25:52] Keri Brown: Yes.

[00:25:52] Ana Torres: So, the fact that you're having them and reinforcing that even as a 4, 5, 6-year-old, you can speak in a complete sentence, right?

[00:26:01] Keri Brown: Yes.

[00:26:01] Ana Torres: So that's going to carry over to first, second grade. So still talking about just adjustments that you can make, not just from the intervention perspective, but in a ...

[00:26:11] Keri Brown: General, yes.

[00:26:12] Ana Torres: ...Math classroom, science. Our self-contained folks can use that in every subject area. So we're kind of entering the, the home stretch here, Keri, and I've had a blast. But it's time for our wisdom nugget segment. I'm going to ask you some quick questions and we're going to see how many we can get through in two minutes. Are you ready?

[00:26:33] Keri Brown: I am not ready, but yes.

[00:26:35] Ana Torres: She's ready but not ready. If you weren't an educator, what would you do for work?

[00:26:40] Keri Brown: I would be a Netflix and dog mama.

[00:26:45] Ana Torres: That's a good one, Keri. Now tell me a name of a mentor educator and one quality that made them a great mentor.

[00:26:54] Keri Brown: This is more of a recent find, Deedee Wills.

I knew of her for a very long time, but we became friends within the last few years and she is just amazing and every time I talk to her, I learn something new.

[00:27:09] Ana Torres: Oh, that's good. So you learned something new with this person?

[00:27:12] Keri Brown: Yes.

[00:27:13] Ana Torres: Teaching on the carpet or students at their seats, Keri?

[00:27:15] Keri Brown: Teach it on the carpet.

[00:27:17] Ana Torres: Why am I not surprised? You're a kindergarten teacher now. Color printed copies forever or an in-classroom laminator.

[00:27:24] Keri Brown: Uh, color copies forever.

[00:27:26] Ana Torres: She's a kinder teacher you guys. Desk in the front or the back of the room?

[00:27:30] Keri Brown: Desk not anywhere in the room.

[00:27:32] Ana Torres: Oh, no desk. Okay. She's saying I don't need a desk. I'll sit on the floor with the babies. All right. Lunch duty or after-school duty?

[00:27:38] Keri Brown: After-school duty.

[00:27:39] Ana Torres: Back when you were a newer teacher, was there a particular book that really helped you?

[00:27:45] Keri Brown: Um. You know, I think I read that The First 30 Days, is that what it's called? The First 30 Days of School? I feel like everybody read that, and that really did help me.

[00:27:54] Ana Torres: I know some people find that to be outdated, but there are some ...

[00:27:57] Keri Brown: Nuggets.

[00:27:57] Ana Torres: ...really great things that, yeah, really yes, nuggets. Thank you for using that. Now, my favorite question: On tough days, what reminds you of why you're passionate about education?

[00:28:09] Keri Brown: Umm. You know, when you see the light bulb come on in a kid and I'm like, "Ah, that this is why." Because sometimes it is hard, you're like, "Why do I do this? The kids are this, the parents are this." But then, you know, you get that sweet note, you get, and it could be from a parent from years ago. Like one time I was having a really bad year. And I got a note from a parent from years ago. She was like, "I'm so happy she had you because she came to first grade not knowing how to read and she left and she was a great reader." And I was just like, "Oh my gosh!"

But it's, it's those, and sometimes you don't always get the thank you right then, it might come years later.

[00:28:46] Ana Torres: Yeah. No, absolutely. Well, that's all the time we have and it's been fun. I'm pretty sure you've heard me laugh, her laugh. I wish you would've been with us to see all these, her amazing classroom and the manipulatives. I was very excited about that. But before we go, we always like to give our guest, Keri, time to kind of do what we call either a shout-out to your home district or a district that's close to your heart.

[00:29:13] Keri Brown: So the people who got me into being, into wanting to do a blog and becoming anybody was Baldwin County, Alabama.

Like those are my people. They got me into presenting. They, you know, when people believe in you and think, "Oh, you can be better than you are." Those are my people down at the beach in Baldwin County. They like helped me change my life. So, forever love them.

[00:29:39] Ana Torres: Oh. That's the shout out there. I'm so glad we had this time together keri Brown, thank you so much for sharing your amazing ideas, your strategies, advice, and your story. Thank you.

[00:29:53] Keri Brown: Thank you for having me.

[00:29:54] Ana Torres: Thanks a lot, Keri. That was Keri Brown Experience, K-2 educator, national presenter, and author of My Kindergarten Math Workbook. Check out the show notes for a link to that book.

Also, we've got some special bonus content with Keri in the works. Keep an eye out on her blog and her Instagram feed. We'll have links to both in the show notes.

All right. Classroom Insider Eric Cross is back with us. Tell us what you think.

[00:30:27] Eric Cross: I thought the conversation was great and there's a lot of things, even as a kindergarten teacher, there are things that I'm going to apply right now. I was actually taking notes for my lesson plan to do this week.

[00:30:37] Ana Torres: Right. And I bow down to kinder teachers all the time.

[00:30:40] Eric Cross: Right.

[00:30:40] Ana Torres: I was only able to do it in summer school and said, "not my jam." But literally bow down to those who that is their jam.

[00:30:48] Eric Cross: Yeah.

[00:30:48] Ana Torres: So with that said, as you all know, when Eric and I get to talking and unpacking, he's got a couple of takeaways for us today.

[00:30:54] Eric Cross: Yeah. The first one that really resonated with me was, was building consistent daily routines, and Keri had said math routines, but I think this can apply for everybody.

[00:31:02] Ana Torres: Agreed.

[00:31:03] Eric Cross: Yeah. Having small, consistent routines, whether it's counting or number talks for math, or for me, when students walk in the classroom, one of the things that they need to do is follow the board.

Now they get complete freedom. They could talk, they could be noisy, all those things, but need to follow the board. Those predictable routines really help students, one, feel safe because they know what, what's going to happen.

[00:31:20] Ana Torres: Right.

[00:31:20] Eric Cross: But two, it also reduces the cognitive load. Like they know what they need to do, and so they're able to focus more on the content when they already have the skills down if it's repeated. And we know with, with teaching students, and sometimes, you know, we can get frustrated remembering that they're 5 or that they're 6 or that they're 12.

[00:31:35] Ana Torres: Right.

[00:31:36] Eric Cross: You know, it's like that is where their brain is at this age. And so when things are consistent and repeated, they know what to expect and it's not as big of a cognitive lift for them.

Eventually gets easier and you can get into the deeper learning. So in a science classroom, it can be doing daily wonder activities, prompts. It could be daily journal writing in an English class. You know, in social studies it could be a, a quick current events headline or a map location, a geography thing that they do.

Just something that's consistent every day that's predictable, and eventually they get into that routine, and it can really help students.

[00:32:06] Ana Torres: Not only students, it could really help us if we're really intentional about it, right? Just kind of what you said, we always hear, "Oh, daily routines. That's something that we should do as teachers." But if we're not intentionally planning for that, and what you said speaks volumes of, not only is it important to do, to build structure and have that be a consistent structure, but it reduces the cognitive load on students.

[00:32:30] Eric Cross: It does.

[00:32:30] Ana Torres: That's also a very important aspect, to be honest, Eric, that I really didn't think about. So thank you for, for your insight on that.

[00:32:37] Eric Cross: Ana, I want to add one more thing, and this isn't directly related to the topic of, of the content, but the predictability and the safety.

[00:32:44] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:32:44] Eric Cross: Our students come from all different types of homes. And I'll speak just transparently, like my home was not consistent, and I had adults that were unpredictable. And I had to develop this sixth sense of being able to read people in my family to know how to act. And unfortunately our students come into our classroom like that because we're an adult.

[00:32:59] Ana Torres: Right.

[00:32:59] Eric Cross: But when we're consistent and it's predictable, it lowers that kind of effective filter. It lowers that anxiety that can come in. "I know Mr. Cross, what he expects of me. I know his mood is going to kind of be this, and..." We don't always think that way because we're thinking about content, but that human aspect, that dependability, that consistency is a big, big barrier for students when they don't feel like it's there.

And when we can create that by creating these routines. Learning happens deeper and faster.

[00:33:24] Ana Torres: And I appreciate, Eric, you know, sharing not only that it's not just about content, there's other aspects of that. So that was a great first takeaway.

[00:33:32] Eric Cross: This next one is one that I'm, I am literally putting to practice the day after I listened to the episode. And this one is, prioritizing small group instruction and intervention.

[00:33:41] Ana Torres: And the key word, I liked what you just said, prioritizing that.

[00:33:44] Eric Cross: Yes. This is going to be my transparency conversation with you, Ana.

[00:33:47] Ana Torres: Sounds good.

[00:33:48] Eric Cross: You know, when I can't see all of my students when my back is turned, it creates kind of an anxiety in me.

And so when I squat down at a table and I can't see everything, I'm wondering what's going on? Is everybody productive? But my math teachers on my team do it all the time and they have so much success.

[00:34:04] Ana Torres: Yeah.

[00:34:04] Eric Cross: And so this is one of those teacher things that I've known I've wanted to do, but I, I haven't actually put into practice.

But when I have—yesterday, when I started putting into practice, I sat down with a table—one, the worry that I had about were other students being productive wasn't as big as I created to be in my mind. And two, I was not only able to go deeper in content and support students, but I was able to connect like personally a little better.

I was able to joke with them. I was able to kind of create analogies on the fly. I was able to do things that I couldn't do when I'm teaching globally.

[00:34:32] Ana Torres: Yeah.

[00:34:32] Eric Cross: And there's probably teachers right now that are like, "Yeah, Cross. I've been doing that my whole career.

[00:34:36] Ana Torres: Right, exactly.

[00:34:36] Eric Cross: And there's research to back this that it improves academic achievement, that you can target instruction, you can give feedback right away— which we know really helps student learning when they get that instant feedback. And then small groups allow for you to create that ZPD, the zone of proximal development.

[00:34:51] Ana Torres: Exactly.

[00:34:51] Eric Cross: You can, you can give students enough of what they need without giving them too much. Or you could challenge them further if the content seems like too easy for them.

[00:34:59] Ana Torres: And we know the research around small groups, but we have Eric Cross here dropping these transparent nuggets as well. You know, I've lived in the elementary space where that was just our jam. That is what we did.

[00:35:10] Eric Cross: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:10] Ana Torres: But I started out as a whole group instructor, like, "Everyone's going to get it." We're going to unpack this and scaffold this in a way. And the impact of my... my kidney table was my friend. And more than just allowing myself to getting to know my students a lot better, because even though small groups were not homogeneous, so in those small groups, I had to tailor those groups to meet the needs of my students.

So I do think it's impactful to spend that little extra time saying, you know, "Let me build some relationship and show these babies kind of how to be students in my classroom." Right?

[00:35:45] Eric Cross: Mm-hmm.

[00:35:45] Ana Torres: So, thank you, Eric, for bringing your perspective there. So, he's got one more, y'all. I see him already itching, like, "Ana, can you stop talking so I can get to this third one?"

So I'm going to let him tackle this third takeaway now.

[00:35:59] Eric Cross: This last one is one that we all experience, and teaching students to explain their thinking, and, and I'll, I'll unpack this a little bit...

[00:36:05] Ana Torres: It's not that easy. It's, it's so hard, Eric, sometimes.

[00:36:09] Eric Cross: And how many times have you seen this? You ask students a question, um, or you ask them a question that requires an explanation and they give you a one-word answer.

[00:36:15] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:36:15] Eric Cross: So Ana, I went down a rabbit trail on this one. I went into like the neuroscience of what was happening. Like I was spending hours on this one, because I was... this is a phenomenon that I'm experiencing now, because in science we're always talking about, you know, how things work and why things are the way they are.

[00:36:28] Ana Torres: And to explain your thinking, right?

[00:36:29] Eric Cross: Yeah.

[00:36:29] Ana Torres: What's, what's kind of, what's your thesis and why did you come up with that? So yes, I can only imagine you went down a rabbit hole.

[00:36:36] Eric Cross: So here's, here's what I found. Sometimes students give these one-word answers when they clearly understand the concept. And it happens because the part of their brain can retrieve the data, it struggles to articulate it. So explaining requires you to juggle information in your working memory and then turn it into language, which can be harder under pressure, like in a classroom environment. And so things like sentence frames, pair shares, prompting with, "tell me more." These things help students bridge the gap between what they know and what they can explain. And so what we're explicitly teaching them, how to use or to use complete sentences, even if it's something simple and mundane...

[00:37:13] Ana Torres: Yes. Something that simple. Exactly.

[00:37:16] Eric Cross: That really requires you to help them open up the bottleneck between the part of the brain that has the knowledge and the part of the brain that's trying to express it. And then they feel really good. They're able to put words to things and everyone wins.

[00:37:28] Ana Torres: And it's yes, and everyone wins. And so I know for me, those, what I like to call think alouds, right?

[00:37:35] Eric Cross: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:37:36] Ana Torres: As you're processing that, those were very intentional in my classroom. And I would have students even walk through like, "here's what I'm thinking." "Here's how I'm processing these thoughts." "Here's how I'm going to express those thoughts."

[00:37:47] Eric Cross: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:47] Ana Torres: "Here's how I'm going to actually connect that into writing." Like all of those things are connected, so, but we've got to be, as you said, Eric, explicit about teaching students how to explain their thinking.

And I was very impressed with Keri that with 5 and 6-year-olds, she was able to do that.

[00:38:05] Eric Cross: Even starting with a sentence frame of, "I think because." And having students use that to explain their thinking.

[00:38:12] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:38:12] Eric Cross: "I think because." Again, like you said in the beginning, the things that I'm learning from a kindergarten teacher ...

[00:38:17] Ana Torres: Yes.

[00:38:18] Eric Cross: ...uh, are things that are applicable, not just to middle school, but even all, you know, all the way up and even with adults.

So the more that we can give our students the language to express themselves, the better it's going to reflect what they actually know and what they actually feel.

[00:38:29] Ana Torres: And a skill that you, know, they can use in their everyday lives.

So thank you, Keri Brown, kindergarten teacher you've taught.

[00:38:35] Eric Cross: Thanks Keri.

[00:38:35] Ana Torres: You know? Yeah, thanks Keri.

[00:38:37] Eric Cross: I want to go sit on the rug.

[00:38:37] Ana Torres: You taught us a lot. Virtual hug to Keri Brown, amazing kindergarten teacher. So Eric, as you can tell, this was our jam. This was a really great episode to unpack. As always, it was really great doing this with you.

[00:38:52] Eric Cross: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And uh, I'm going to be doing small groups all day today.

[00:38:55] Ana Torres: Oh, and I can't wait to hear about it next time.

Thanks for listening to Beyond My Years from Amplify. Next time around, we've got something special to share as we head towards the end of the year.

[00:39:08] Fawn Nguyen: Hi everyone, it's Fawn Nguyen, and I'm grateful that Ana and Eric are inviting me to share a few more minutes with you.

[00:39:14] Ana Torres: Then we're coming back to tackle a big topic: how to help students develop critical thinking.

[00:39:20] Mitchell Brookins: When we talk about knowledge building, when we talk about knowledge acquisition, it's actually predicated on critical thinking.

[00:39:28] Ana Torres: That's coming up. I'm your host, Ana Torres, our Classroom Insider is Eric Cross, our music is by Andrew Smolin. Until next time, please remember to reach out and say thank you to a seasoned educator who has shaped your life.