Putting teacher voices at the center of math adoption, starring Matt Cash

In the first episode of a special Beyond My Year two-part math series, Ana chats with Matt Cash, director of elementary curriculum and instruction for Lake Elsinore Unified School District, in California, about math leadership and change management. Matt shares his experience helping move his district from a localized approach to a unified system to provide centralized resources, professional development, and assessment. Together, Matt and Ana discuss the importance of listening to educators during adoption processes, the power of creating systems that support teachers, and the best ways to build unity around instructional approaches. Matt also shares practical advice for educators navigating curriculum reviews and pilots. Before the episode's end, Ana is joined by Classroom Insider Eric Cross, who reflects on how teachers can use their voices early in adoption processes, pilot with fidelity, and give themselves grace during implementation.

Show notes:

• Check out the full change management bundle — including the change management playbook— at amplify.com/MathChangeManagement
• Subscribe to Advice for the Math Classroom on Amplify's YouTube channel: amplify.com/mathclassroomadvice. 
  • Check out our new math change management playlist!
  • Check out our new student-centered math practices playlist!
• Subscribe to Advice for the Literacy Classroom on Amplify's YouTube channel: amplify.com/literacyclassroomadvice.
• Follow us on Instagram.
• Subscribe to Beyond My Years.
• Connect with Ana Torres.
• Connect with Eric Cross. 

Quotes:

"When you're removing variability out of your system, quality is going up." —Matt Cash

"Professionals are obsessed with the idea of getting better." —Matt Cash

"Advocate for your kids." —Matt Cash

"Give yourself grace in year one, but stay engaged and keep asking for support." —Eric Cross

"Instead of quietly struggling and going back to old materials, put that energy into requests and make your voice heard." —Eric Cross

"Sometimes the buy-in comes when we understand things better." —Eric Cross

Transcript

Matt Cash: There's no just adoption process. Weaved into the adoption process is professional development, and there's this alignment that happens about, "Hey, this is what we're shooting for, and here's how close I am or am not to being able to do that yet."

Ana Torres: This is Ana Torres, and welcome to Beyond My Years from Amplify. On Beyond My Years, we know educators never stop learning. And that's why we're here to help you extend your reach. Every episode we share research-backed strategies and tried-and-true lessons from experts and experienced educators. And I'm here with Classroom Insider, middle school science teacher, Eric Cross.

We had a quick break after Season 2, and now we're back with a couple of special episodes devoted to leveling up listeners' math instruction. 

Eric Cross: This is something that's outside of my content area, but I love learning about it because I'm always looking for connections with what I teach in my classroom, what other teachers are teaching, 'cause it just helps kids.

Ana Torres: Yes, it does. So on top of these new episodes, we've also collected some of our all-time math resources, including classroom strategies from all-star guests like Dan Meyer and Keri Brown in one place. Check out the show notes for a brand-new math playlist and a Math Change Management Playbook. We've got a lot of stuff.

Speaking of change management, we're kicking off this series by talking about change management and math leadership. We'll be hearing some tips for navigating a curriculum review in pilot. 

Eric Cross: There's probably very few podcast episodes of resources for teachers who are going through a curriculum adoption. It's a very niche, but it's a big segment of education. It doesn't really get talked about, like what happens when your whole district is doing a curriculum, like what's the guidance. 

Ana Torres: As a former principal and also a former teacher, I've seen it on both sides. Obviously you go through this to have impact for your students in the classroom. Right? Like that's the whole goal of it all. 

But it is a very multifaceted process. It's not easy. Sometimes you've got to make some decisions that not everyone agrees with. But I think we always keep student outcomes at the center of everything, and it's got to be gentle on teachers, too. 

Eric Cross: This is a topic that I'm really excited to learn more about.

[00:02:17] Ana Torres: Today's guest has had a front row seat to a curriculum review and adoption process. Matt Cash now serves as the director of elementary curriculum and instruction for Lake Elsinore Unified School District in California. Previously, he was the district's assistant director of math, and as you're about to hear, the district has moved from a localized approach to a unified one—and Matt's going to talk all about the process and some of the benefits they're already seeing. So, Eric, I'm goin to catch you on the other side. Okay?

Eric Cross: Sounds great.

Ana Torres: Well, I couldn't ask for a better guest for today's conversation about math leadership and change management. He's a former classroom teacher, staff developer, principal, and assistant director of math. Wow. He's done a lot. Matt Cash is his name, and I welcome you to Beyond My Years, Matt. 

Matt Cash: Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Ana Torres: Yeah, we're excited to have you. And I'm going to ask you the hardest question that I ask every single guest. 

Matt Cash: Oh, geez. Okay. 

Ana Torres: How long have you been an educator, Matt? 

Matt Cash: Oh, depends on how you count the years, but I'd say 23. 

Ana Torres: Now, with those 23 years, as you think about it, do you feel that you are a seasoned educator, Matt?

Matt Cash: Man, it really depends on the moment I'm in. I think there are times I'm like, "Hey, I really have a firm grasp of this. I know exactly what to do." And there are other times where that experience just leads you to the realization that you don't know everything and you're actually a little bit more prone, I think, to being aware of what you don't know.

I think you have a little bit more grace for yourself through the process to say it's okay to not try and fake it till you make it. It's okay to just say, "Hey, I don't know the answer to this one, but I'm going to go get it. I'm going to go figure it out." 

Ana Torres: And I liked what you said, "Awareness." You have a little bit more awareness with more time put in.

Matt Cash: Yeah. 

Ana Torres: And you're a lot more graceful than you were when you first started, so, absolutely. Look, you're already dropping wisdom nuggets and we're probably only on minute two, so thank you so much for that, Matt. 

So on this episode, listeners, you're going to get some advice about embarking on a curriculum review. This is a pretty cool topic.

I'd love for you to tell us the story of your own journey. After years as a classroom teacher, you took a new job at a new district and you were there to serve as the assistant director of math. Tell us more about that transition.

Matt Cash: Yeah, so I had an amazing opportunity to come here. I spent almost two decades of my career in the same school district. One of the reasons I really wanted to make the shift and change is because there was an opportunity to build things from the ground up. 

Lake Elsinore had a very site-centric model. It didn't have a huge or robust instructional services program yet. And so a lot of sites were left to say, "Well, if I need support, I'm going to have to go hire consultants or I'm going to have to pull in maybe county support or I'm going to have to do something like that to resource my teachers to get professional development, to figure out what kind of textbook we want to do, or supplemental program or Tier 2."

Ana Torres: Yeah. 

Matt Cash: And so a lot of stuff was site-based, and that makes it really hard to provide district-level supports, whether that's instructional coaching or professional development programming, consistent assessment structures to be able to tell how things are working and if the curriculum's being effective or our teaching practices are going really well.

And so, those are all aspects of it. I was like, oof. I really want the opportunity to get in and try and build something, and that was the opportunity here. One of the coolest things about Lake Elsinore, the relational equity that's built into this district is beautiful. And what they were communicating they needed was more supports to get the students to achieve what we believe the students can achieve. 

That's really hard to do when everything is micro, localized to a single school, or in some cases really micro, localized to even a grade-level team. There was a lot of unique programs at each school site.

There was about 128, 130 programs just in general being used, whether that was curriculum, textbook, Tier 2 interventions, online programs. All of that kind of stuff. 

Matt Cash: Clever, our student management system, within the kids' portal, it was full of many, many, many programs. And then when we isolated that down to just what was addressing mathematics, there was more than 28 programs that were just addressing mathematics. 

And so there's no way, there's no way to provide meaningful professional development or supports with our instructional coaches and with our PD sessions, when you're trying to manage the nuances and approaches, and sometimes those ideological approaches to how mathematics is taught is very different, program to program and system to system. And when there's 28 of them happening in one system, that's not manageable. Right? That's not something that we can actually build structured supports around. 

Ana Torres: So what's the biggest opportunity in a situation like that?

Matt Cash: Well, what you're shooting for is unity. You want unity both in the kind of materials you're looking for and the kind of supports they're asking for, but really what it all hinges on is do you have unity when it comes to approach? Do people really believe that this is the method by which mathematics should be taught?

Ana Torres: Exactly.

Matt Cash: That took some professional development and that took some listening on our own. What are you currently using? Why do you think that works? How is that working for you? Let's talk about data. Let's talk about... Right. 

We had one conversation in particular during a PD session, and we had every teacher in there because we were talking about the onboarding process and just beginning this adoption phase where we were bringing in stuff. We wanted to do this, "Hey, let's get everybody on the same page a moment." And we had a really critical conversation about mathematics instruction versus ELA instruction. When it comes uniquely to mathematics and some science aspects, it requires a different type of exploration or investigation-type style to your pedagogical practices when you're doing it. 

Ana Torres: And you use the word unity. We need to be unified in our approach to teaching math. We need to do that and provide the professional, the adequate professional development that our teachers need.

So, unity's good for teachers. Why do you feel it would also benefit students, in general, but in math in particular? 

Matt Cash: Well, I'd start here too. I'll answer that, but I'll say unity, it's important for us too, at the district office. We wanted to listen to teachers so that we could provide systems that would help change the organization, but I have to be willing to change too.

Ana Torres: Agreed. 

Matt Cash: I can't act like I didn't come into the roles I came into without preconceived notions of what should happen. I had pretty strong views about what I think should happen with mathematics, the type of curriculum we should be looking for, what the framework says about those things. But I also can't be unwilling to change.

And I think what's really important for kids when we're talking about unity is, man, not only are they getting, when we got here, there's so many programs they were being exposed to. Right? Well, that means different programs, possibly at different grade levels, and that means different programs, school to school. As they switch from elementary to middle to high school, they're getting different programs, different core curriculums, different, et cetera, experiences.

Ana Torres: Different programs, different curriculum, different approaches. 

Matt Cash: Yep. And we know the research is so clear around a unified path that kids can trust. Right?

Ana Torres: Ooh, that kids can trust. Yes. 

Matt Cash: And so when we look at curriculum, and we say, "Well, is there an opportunity somewhere within this process of change and building something new to create more consistency?" Right? We talk a lot about reducing variability in the system so that quality can increase. It's not always a perfect match, but generally when you're removing variability out of your system, quality is going up.

That's something we wanted to see, and if we could produce or get opportunities for our kids that had a consistent TK all the way through to eighth at least. That's what the data says. But man, if we could get it all the way to high school, that would've been just phenomenal. And we were able to, within the adoption process, actually pull that off.

And that was probably one of the biggest wins for our teachers and our communities and our kiddos in general. And it's something that we don't fully realize yet because we're just in our first implementation year. Right? 

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: But it's something that is going to pay off in two years, four years, five years, seven years. We're going to start seeing that benefit of having a consistent through line with the programs we're using. 

Ana Torres: So, I really do feel that our listeners want to hear what did you do and how did you tackle this process? We know that you listen, we know that listening happened, and that's super important. Right. But as you listened, take us through what happened. 

Matt Cash: Yeah, so ground level, we first had to do an inventory. What is out there? Do we even, we think we know, but do we know. Right? 

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: Because there's this stuff that shows up on your budget reports and your line items about expenditures. And then there's also this stuff that's free and that people are accessing and utilizing in their classrooms, et cetera. 

And so we did a good faith effort of getting out there and really trying to excavate and figure out, man, what's really being used? What are the levels? Hopping on these programs and looking at usage rates, which schools are using which programs the most. Do they find them effective? Getting out there and talking to folks, et cetera. 

In a lot of cases, we got pretty bland reviews. Yeah, it's okay. I guess it's doing the job. I think it's okay, but not a lot of resounding, oh my gosh, this tool is the thing that's really going to move us forward. 

Ana Torres: Like this is it. 

Matt Cash: Not really a lot of endorsements for those, all of those programs. Right? This is what we've always used, or this is what I was told to use. And then really formulating a strategic plan for de-implementation. You can't just pull everything out of the system at once. It creates a vacuum. 

And so, strategically saying, "Hey, this year, these things are going to get pulled. The next year, these things are going to get pulled." And over the course of two or three years, we'll have pulled most of those things out of the system and replaced them with viable curriculum that reduces that variability. Right? So that was step one. What's out there? How do we strategically plan to take it out of the system? 

Behind the scenes, we're also working. At a district, it's more complicated, I think, sometimes than folks realize, when you're talking about funding lines and categorical funds and which monies are being spent on instructional materials, which grants do you have access to that you can spend on instructional materials, and how do you lay out your district's vision for which curriculums need to be adopted in which years, so that you're not overwhelming teachers all at once. 

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: And that you ensure you have the funding available in each of those years to purchase those curriculums. And so we had to map that out as well. 

Ana Torres: And how long did that process take? I mean, and again, as you're explaining it, and I'm hearing it, and I've been through it many times with science as well, just all subject areas. How long did that process take from building a team, getting that feedback from your educators, and then figuring out funding?

How long did that take, Matt? 

Matt Cash: We're in our third year and we're rounding the fourth turn here, so it took about six months to hire, train, and equip our instructional coaches and get them up and running. Then to hire and train and move into the work with our specialists and say, "Hey, this is what we need around curriculum maps and course outlines, and all of these pieces and components of their work and what we want to look like with professional development moving forward, what kind of sessions do we need," et cetera. And so that took a year just to do that. And at the same time, simultaneously, we're starting to de-implement. Right? 

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: By year two, we're moving into an adoption process in phase, so we're running a full adoption and we're still de-implementing. We're still slowly pulling things out of the system, and saying, "This, not that." 

And then, into year three, now where we actually have a viable curriculum adopted for TK all the way through Algebra 2, and where our PD is aligned to that, where now it's really, really clear which things in the system don't match. We're in a really sweet spot, where the work is really just beginning, but we know it began two years ago. 

Ana Torres: Exactly. 

Matt Cash: But for most folks, they're feeling the beginning tumults right now, the shaking, the ground swell. They're feeling it this year because this is the first real year of implementation and change. 

Ana Torres: Now I'm excited to hear, and I think our listeners will be excited to hear, so what is the current situation, Matt, and what are the biggest benefits that you've seen?

Matt Cash: Yeah, so we went through a successful adoption last year. We had several different players that came in that we vetted using state guidelines and rubrics that we developed in conjunction with the state guidelines. A very, very rigorous process took us an entire year. 

We were looking for unity. In our consensus model, we had overwhelming consensus, a hundred percent in some grade levels and in the high nineties in other grade spans for Amplify Desmos Math. And so, I can tell you the tide really turned in Amplify Desmos' favor in two moments. One was the presentation that most publishers come and do. Of course, they offer their best presenter, their best presentation, and everything looks shiny and fun.

But the second part. Is when you have to come and do a demo lesson and the teachers get to experience it as a student. Right? 

Ana Torres: Yes. 

Matt Cash: That really started to separate the wheat from the chaff. Right? And then we got a couple that really took the lead, and Amplify really took the lead there, and I was like, oof, this is good stuff.

And then when it went to piloting, when our pilot teachers really put it into playing in the classroom, I think that's where everything swung in that direction, because that's usability. That's, "Does this make sense? Do the kids grasp it? Am I able to navigate these lessons successfully? Does the tech work? 

Ana Torres: Does it really work?

Matt Cash: Yeah. Does it work? 

Ana Torres: We get to try it out. Right? We get to try it out before we make a decision. 

They want to know that when you say, "Click this slide," that the slide is there and that the slide works.

Ana Torres: Exactly. 

Matt Cash: They want to know that when you print something, the right thing prints and comes out. They want to know when you say go to page 19, that's where this resource is, that the resource is there. Amplify delivered on those fronts. And that was impressive to our teachers, and it showed in our data. 

And so, when you're able to go to your school board and say, "Hey, look, this entire group of teachers..." Now, we had, oh, 70 something teachers on our committee.

Ana Torres: Oh wow. 

Matt Cash: And we had over 135 people pilot. That's a lot. That's a lot of data coming into the system. So when you have that level of people's experience in using the curriculum and you have the levels of high nineties to a hundred percent consensus in choosing that, those are messages that your cabinet and executive cabinet and board, they want to see that kind of level of agreement with your teachers about the materials that they're selecting. And we had that in spades. 

Ana Torres: Well, music to my ears, of course. Would you say that this benefited teachers' and students' math? 

Matt Cash: Yes. Yes. Well, because you get a couple things. There's no just adoption process. Weaved into the adoption process is professional development. Right? Woven into that entire experience is empathy interviews. You're listening to kids. "What do you like?" Kids are part of our process. Right? Which lessons did you find more engaging? 

And there's this alignment that happens through that process of truly what it is you're looking for. What are the shifts we're trying to make? And there's a realization, I think, from the system, from the top down about, "Hey, this is what we're shooting for and here's how close I am or am not to being able to do that yet."

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: And that's okay. That's okay. That's part of the process of change management and being the best at getting better. 

Ana Torres: And the fact that you brought in, well, that you actually even solicited how the students felt is even more powerful and speaks to the unity aspect of, takes all of us to ensure the best outcomes for students. That you involved them in the process, to me, warms my teacher heart. Love, love, love. 

Um, you sharing your story. Now we're going to get to you sharing how this can apply to those folks that are out there thinking, "What advice would Matt give?"

Let's think about an educator who's out there and their district is using different materials. It's like that micro organization that you talked about. What's your biggest advice for somebody in that situation? 

Matt Cash: Yeah, so it's a nerdy one, and some people love it, and some people are like, "Ah, stop talking about the framework already."

Ana Torres: I love nerdy. So yeah, I'm pretty sure we've got listeners that are going to love nerdy. 

Matt Cash: You need to know your framework. There's a little bit of a misnomer out there that like, oh, you've got to know your standards. You've got to know your standards. Standards are like an address, like of a house, like this is the number and the address of the street you live on. And people talk about, "Oh, you've got to unpack a standard." Okay? I get the rhetoric around that. 

That's what the framework does. If you read the framework, you understand what are the big ideas and the concepts, what are the best pedagogical practices for doing that. Right? Every section of the framework for your state will have a section for your grade level that you can unpack and use that way, and it's so much more meaningful than trying to figure out what is or isn't meant by a standard or an address line. 

Ana Torres: Agreed. 

Matt Cash: And so, when you really get into big ideas, connections, what the framework's asking you to do, how models progress over time, why I should use an area model here because it's going to come back later, that means so much more than just a simple standard.

So, if they know their framework, and it's okay. You don't have to read the whole thing. It's like a thousand pages probably. But if you pull out your grade level section and read it, that's really important. 

Ana Torres: Yeah. 

Matt Cash: So you know exactly what the target is that you're trying to do. Then you can say, "Does this line up? Is the materials in front of me aligned with this methodology, with this belief system, with these pedagogical practices, with the resources I ought to have?" And then I feel like you can make a good case for, "Hey, if our current curriculum doesn't do this, how do I advocate for supplemental supports that will get me to this level?" Right? 

Because regardless of the name on the book, the kids have to be aligned to what the state intended for them to learn at each level. And so the framework articulates that. A great publisher is going to align their materials to that, and that's really in our adoption process again. That's another place where Amplify crushed it.

When you looked at the standards alignment, sure, everyone aligns to the standards. You'd be a fool to not align to the standards and submit your stuff. But how many people are truly aligned to the framework and the intentionality behind it, meaning the people who are developing the lessons and the models and the images and the resources and the experiences for kids.

They really know what the intention of that framework was meant to do in support of student learning. And that comes out. So when you know those things as a teacher, you can better advocate for the type of things that you want to see in your classroom and in your materials. 

Ana Torres: Totally agree. And so he's already dropping really great wisdom nuggets, y'all.

Matt Cash: It's read. Know your...

Ana Torres: Yeah. Read. Right. 

Matt Cash: My wisdom nugget is go read the framework. 

Ana Torres: Know your framework in order to better advocate for change. Right? So, there you go. 

Matt Cash: You're going to be your best advocate. And the more educated and read up you are on that subject, the better, the better you're going to do. And do it, because who's sitting in front of you every day are 34 human beings who deserve a hope and the future. And we know from Duncan's work out of University of California, Irvine, mathematics is even a higher predictor of outcome for student success. It's higher than early reading. And it's higher than early behavioral skills. And so, obviously that's the trifecta, right? Early literacy, early numeracy, and early behavior supports. 

Ana Torres: Right? Right. 

Matt Cash: But math is the strongest. So advocate for your kids. 

Ana Torres: Advocate for that. Absolutely. 

Now, how can an educator who's at the beginning of a curriculum review or even a pilot, what best practices do you have for them to get them started on the right foot, Matt? 

Matt Cash: Yeah, I would say, I'll go on a couple levels. If you're doing it from a district level, most states provide guidance and you should really follow it. I see it happen a lot where folks are coming and they're asking for supports or hit me up and say, "Hey, can you help us out with our process?"

I'm like, "Sure. Have you read the California guidance or have you read your state's guidance?" And they're like, "No, I haven't done that yet." Well, you should start there. It's pretty clear and most states do a pretty good job of articulating exactly how they want an adoption process to go. 

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: Once that happens, then you need to create a rubric.

That is divorced from "I like this one" or "but I like the cartoon characters in this one" or "I really like the story aspect in this publisher." Who cares? Does it hit, does it hit the rubric where you need to, because this is going to end up in front of kids for seven years and so does it actually hit the mark where it needs to?

And you need to develop a rubric that both takes into account what the state is asking and what your local community needs are. Right? When you're listening to the teachers and you're listening to the kids and you're listening to the community, we want these things in there. Fine. We need to make sure those hit.

And for us, it looked like, making sure math language routines were a huge part of our rubric. 

Ana Torres: Oh, yes. Yes. 

Matt Cash: Because we know that the need in our community to develop oral language skills and fluency was huge. And we needed to capitalize on that in mathematics, and the math language routines were the way to do that. Right? 

And so, when you develop those kinds of pieces from a district level, then you can really trust that the teachers are going to utilize those materials and come to a great spot at the end, and they're going to make a great selection. I never worried about what our teachers would decide because I trusted them. They were on our team. We worked really hard to create alignment, and then we gave them really good materials by which to select the right material, and they did. And you can trust the process when you do that that way. 

Ana Torres: And that's exactly what I was going to say. They trusted the process because they trusted you or trusted your team.

Matt Cash: Yeah. You created a good system. 

Ana Torres: Created a great system. 

Now Matt, now you're in this new role. Right? 

Matt Cash: Yeah, I am. 

Ana Torres: Director of elementary curriculum and instruction. Can you briefly tell us, kind of curious about what final advice can you share based on your current, like broader perspective? 

Matt Cash: Sure. The education system's really complicated.

Ana Torres: Yes. 

Matt Cash: There's not a district that is like easy to navigate. Right? 

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: And for really good reasons, every entity within in that district has a job to do. Right? Facilities is charged with having to make sure environments are beautiful and well kept, and something where we want our families to bring their kids every day. Right? 

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: Personnel is obsessed with this idea of getting the best people in the best positions. Every aspect is working, and one thing I've really had to learn in the last couple months in this new position is you can't just focus on your thing.

Ana Torres: Right. 

Matt Cash: Every decision you make connects and hits and impacts every other division and department. And so, yes, the decisions we make flow down and hit the school sites, the classroom and the kids and the teachers. But they also flow out and they hit the divisions around us. Right? 

And so, when we start making proposals and we start thinking about the decisions that we want to put forward, we have to really think through who's being affected by this. Who do I need to bring in as a co-collaborator on this? Who do I need to communicate with about the steps that we're taking? Facilities, personnel, warehouses, purchasing, and delivery. Right? There's so many aspects that go into ordering a book, getting a math book in a teacher's hands. It touches all of the divisions, all of them, and so that's been a huge aha for me, just sitting in this seat. 

Ana Torres: Now Matt, such an honor to have you like on the podcast. 

Matt Cash: Yeah, thank you. 

Ana Torres: And sharing all of your just amazing experiences and taking our listeners through a curriculum review and pilot process. 

So, now we're at what I like to call the fun part of all of this. Right? Wisdom nuggets segment. 

Matt Cash: Let's go. 

Ana Torres: You should see his face. He is so ready for this. 

Matt Cash: I'm fired up. Let's do it. 

Ana Torres: He's fired up, y'all. 

If you weren't an educator, what would you do for work? 

Matt Cash: Oh, I'd like to think I was good enough to be a songwriter. I love playing guitar and singing.

I'd love to think I'm a good enough songwriter that I can make a living at it. 

Ana Torres: And know that he was in a band, y'all.

What was your pump-up song on your way to teach? 

Matt Cash: Oh man. So, I'm a country guy. I love country, but I don't know, though. I would say I like Smashing Pumpkins. One jam that's always got me going is "Rat in a Cage." You could put that on and your foot starts hitting the floor and you're like, you could conquer the world that day.

Ana Torres: Smashing Pumpkins. 

What's your favorite book, movie, or TV show about teaching? 

Matt Cash: I'm a kid in the nineties. So, I've got to go Boy Meets World, Mr. Feeney. Okay. He was the wise one. Right? He always, he always kept the kids on track. So I'm going to go Boy Meets World. 

Ana Torres: Strangest item you had in your classroom. 

Matt Cash: So, somebody was getting rid of this bust of Beethoven or Mozart. I can't remember. And I thought that was crazy. Why would you get rid of that? So I kept it, and it was always in my classroom, and it made no sense why it was in my classroom. 

But I had a huge bust, a statue of the head of Mozart or Beethoven. I can't remember which one. 

Ana Torres: Whoa. 

And on tough days, what reminds you of why you are passionate about education?

Matt Cash: I heard a saying recently from Molly Grisham. She's a leadership coach that does a lot of work with us. She's awesome. She shared this story about somebody, and this phrase stood out in the story. It says, "Who am I and why am I here?" And if I can think about that every day, like "Who am I? What core values do I have and what do I believe about my purpose? And then why am I here? Like why am I showing up every day?" And when we look at our student achievement levels and what the work that needs to be done to give kids that hope in future, then that's why we show up. And so, exactly I think about that: "Who am I and why am I here?" 

Ana Torres: Now, before we go, I'd love to give you a chance. We do this with every guest. We want you to shout out your home district, Matt. 

Matt Cash: All right. I'll shout out Lake Elsinore. It's an amazing place to work. Everybody from the top down, every leader in every seat cares about kids. Every principal I've talked to and have worked with, they are passionate about creating transformative school sites for their kids. And the teachers that we get to work with, they're the best. They're passionate about what they do, and they're very knowledgeable. I don't know a better place to work. 

I kicked this whole thing off by talking about the relational equity that exists here in Lake Elsinore, and that's what makes the really, really difficult work worth doing and able to be done. It's because human beings see other human beings and are willing to join lock arms and do the work. 

Ana Torres: Well, I love that. That's a, that's a drop mic moment. Thanks, Matt, for taking time to be with us today. 

Matt Cash: Oh, you got it. 

Ana Torres: I hope there's a part two to this. Thanks so much, Matt. 

That was Matt Cash, director of elementary curriculum and instruction for Lake Elsinore Unified School District in California.

Visit the show notes for a bundle of resources designed to help you manage change in the math classroom. And now let's bring back Classroom Insider Eric Cross. 

Classroom Insider Eric Cross is back with us. I'm curious what you thought of it. 

Eric Cross: I appreciated it. I listened to this as a student in many ways because many of the ideas that Matt shared are things that I haven't heard before, simply 'cause I hadn't experienced it.

So I really liked the angle shift and the perspective. I really feel like this is a great resource for something that I'm probably going to go through at some point in time in my career. 

Ana Torres: I know you got a couple of takeaways, although this was a different type of episode. What's your first takeaway? 

Eric Cross: The first thing that resonated with Matt was using your voice early.

So, when your district is taking on a curriculum review, the early listening, the inventory phase, being candid about what's working and what you actually need is really, really important. And so, not being vague and polite. Sometimes it happens. Right? We want to be kind and nice.

Ana Torres: Exactly. 

Eric Cross: But this is a rigorous process, and you have to be brutally honest about what you're doing, because this is a commitment. And so you want to make sure that you are vetting this properly. So instead of saying things that, "It's fine, I guess," you want to make sure that your real needs are being said.

So, jotting down notes and observations when you're going through it in the classroom, keeping that running list, talking to colleagues and different grade-level and content teams, depending on what the curriculum is, getting feedback from other people who are going through it too, and bouncing ideas off of each other because this, again, is a multi-year commitment, and you really want to make sure that you're vetting it because this is going to be in front of hundreds, if not thousands, of students.

Ana Torres: And using your voice early actually even ties into what Matt talked a lot about, which was he had to do a lot of listening when he stepped into this role. Folks did use their voice and he appreciated that, but he did also have to create a process for that. And so, using that voice early, and if you are in that leadership position and part of this process, leading it, listening also is super, super important as well.

So that's takeaway one. Right, Eric? Using that voice early. 

Eric Cross: Yeah. The next one, this is one that I don't always do very well, but I am committed if I ever have to vet a curriculum to do this. And it's pilot with fidelity, and then give the honest feedback. You need to see what the curriculum does and how it stands on its own.

And so, as a pilot teacher, what Matt was saying is it's my job to make sure I teach how the materials are designed first, and then give that brutally honest feedback about its real-world usage, like does the tech work. He mentioned, do the lessons flow together? Can I actually pull this off with 34 to 36 students with everything else that's on my plate? 

And then asking questions. Are there resources and supports for my multilingual learners? What about for my students who have individual education plans? Were those things designed with them in mind, or as afterthoughts? And you can, you can sense that and detect that when you're going through a curriculum. 

Ana Torres: Agreed. Agreed. 

Eric Cross: There are things that really matter in the day to day. 

Ana Torres: And pilot with fidelity, for teachers who can seem like, "Oh, rigidity." Right? And there is a difference with that. And so, if the process is set up for teachers to do what you just said with your first takeaway, like using that voice early. That process allows for that and allows for teachers to feel that their feedback is important and valuable.

I do feel that teachers will pilot with fidelity and give that honest feedback, but the process has to allow for that. And remember that fidelity doesn't always mean rigidity, but if you don't follow it with fidelity, then you'll never know if it's truly working or not. So I totally agree with you there.

I know you have a third one, a third takeaway as well. 

Eric Cross: Yeah. This is true for any new adoption and I think this goes across industries. It doesn't matter what it is because it's the human condition in this. And the first one is give yourself grace in year one, but stay engaged and keep asking for support.

And so when you're first implementing something, anything new, anybody who's ever had to do this or implement this in a classroom or a business or a company or deploy something, the first year of implementation is genuinely hard. 

Cash was super sympathetic to this. You're learning a new program. You're still teaching other subjects. You're still managing your professional learning communities. You're looking at benchmark data. You're navigating everything else on your plate, and the key is to stay in that productive struggle. It's that, that we call it the ZPD, the zone of proximal development.

Keep communicating what you need. Keep asking for support. Resist the temptation to abandon the new materials and retreat into old habits just because it becomes comfortable. That is a human thing. That is not something that's just because of this specific curriculum. That is how we're wired as humans. We don't like change.

And so, give mental space to that process. When you're in the thick of it or when I'm in the thick of it, it's okay to feel frustrated. It's okay to think the old way was better, and it probably was in a sense because it was familiar, but not because it was better. You know what I mean? 

Ana Torres: Yes. 

Eric Cross: And so, instead of quietly struggling and going back to old materials, low key, not letting anybody know, put that energy into requests, and make your voice heard. So, "I need help to understand how to boost this lesson, or I need to understand why this component is in here. Can someone model doing activity one or can someone model this simulation or show me this routine?" 

Sometimes the buy-in comes when we understand things better and we have to be okay and give grace to ourselves in knowing not everything's going to be intuitive. And that's all right. That's just part of the process. So, give yourself grace, stay engaged, lean into it, and then get support and ask for help. 

Ana Torres: And I like the fact that you said, "Stay engaged" and also "Ask for support," because unfortunately that's not something we always do well because asking for support means "I don't know," but it's better to ask for it and get the support that you need versus falling back, like you said, to what we think is better but can just be familiar. 

And what Matt also talked a lot about is they're in year one of implementation, but it's been two years of them setting this up for success in this one year and now they're in their first implementation year, and he's super excited, all super excited for the work that they've all collectively done.

I love that he's celebrating all of what's happened, getting to the point of implementing. This was a great episode. Thank you for also taking the time to give your feedback. 

Eric Cross: And Ana, can I tell you one thing that I appreciated, is that I love and my passion is being in the classroom and teaching, but I love that Matt's passion right now is doing the curriculum implementation because that's contagious.

Ana Torres: Yes. 

Eric Cross: I don't particularly love that type of work. But I love that we have people who do. 

Ana Torres: Yes. 

Eric Cross: You know what I mean? I love that grade-level, every grade-level teacher is different and they love their grade level. I look at elementary school teachers and I'm like, "God bless you. That is so amazing. I don't know what I would do." But then teachers say the same thing about middle school students, and that's what I'm wired for. So I love that when someone's in the pocket in their different fields and education and that passion is there, it's contagious. 

And so if I was part of a team where Matt was leading, that would increase my engagement, that would increase my perseverance, that would make me buy in even more because he really believes in this work. I think for people who are in a leadership level, that is contagious for people who are actually implementing it, because if the passion's there, it flows down.

So I really felt his presence and enthusiasm coming through, listening to that episode. So, so, great job. I really liked listening to it. 

Ana Torres: Yeah, it was a impactful episode. 

Well, Eric, as always, great chatting with you, and you know we will do it again soon. 

Eric Cross: I look forward to it. 

Ana Torres: Thanks for listening to Beyond My Years from Amplify.

Remember, we're sharing a bundle of free resources devoted to leveling up math instruction. Visit amplify.com/math change management for a math change management playbook and ebook on small shifts for sustainable change and much more. All of that's also available via a link in the show notes. 

Next up in this special math series, I'll be chatting with Ian Brown, second-grade teacher and the author of the comic book I Hate Math. 

Ian Brown: We always talk about math, anxiety, the stress level that comes with math. My number one way that I found to diffuse everything around that is just making math harmless. 

Ana Torres: That's next time on Beyond My Years. I'm your host, Ana Torres. Our Classroom Insider is Eric Cross. Our music is by Andrew Smolin.

Until next time, please remember to reach out and say thank you to a seasoned educator who has shaped your life.