26. Retire with Integrity: the Decision with James Zeigler

Whether you plan your retirement for months in advance or are forced into it, the shift to retirement can be stressful and challenging. 

In this episode of the Courageous Retirement podcast, host Vona Johnson is joined by guest James Zeigler to discuss the profound and often challenging decision to retire. 

They explore retirement's emotional and practical aspects, emphasizing the importance of integrity, faith, and courage. James shares his journey from an illustrious career in Veterans Affairs to a fulfilling retirement, highlighting God's pivotal role in guiding this transition. 

They discuss many people's inner struggles, including dealing with the 'bully within' ourselves and how to reframe it positively. 

The conversation also touches on resilience, the physical impacts of stress, and the valuable lessons James has documented in his book Chemical Courage. 

Listen to gain powerful insights on how to make your retirement a meaningful and purpose-driven season of life.

00:00 Introduction
00:22 Guest Introduction: James Zeigler
02:10 James Zeigler's Career Journey
04:36 The Decision to Retire (OR Not!)
05:55 Integrity and Leadership
08:48 The Emotional Rollercoaster of Retirement
10:30 God's Guidance in Retirement
15:49 Financial Realities and Adjustments
18:39 Personal Struggles and Triumphs
21:46 The Importance of Time and Priorities
23:12 Finding Fulfillment in Retirement
23:39 Understanding the Bully Within
24:49 The Concept of Resilience
28:08 The Impact of Chronic Stress
31:04 The Role of Faith and Values
34:31 Practical Steps to Manage Stress
39:34 Final Thoughts and Resources

Quotes:

" There are two paths to take–integrity is the wisdom of knowing which path to take." James Zeigler

" We need to retire to something and not away from something." Vona Johnson

" The best part of saying yes to retirement and answering God's call to more is that we get to, there's more flexibility in making sure we get the rocks in first." Vona Johnson  

" You have to analyze your alignment with your values, your faith, your beliefs. Is it integrity?" James Zeigler

Connect with James: 
https://behold1.com
 JamesZeigler@behold1.com
If you're a veteran struggling with thoughts of suicide or something difficult, text James at  (9 0 6) 8 6 9 -1 4 8 0

Download a Bible Based Emotions Chart https://images.app.goo.gl/miCT8zzmrJZF75Ty6

Prefer to watch the video, catch it here: https://youtu.be/XAKYoDNBe3A

Thank you for stopping by today! Remember to Engage Your Faith and Live Your More as you reap the benefits of Courageous Retirement!

To watch the video, check out my YouTube Channel!

Learn more about the show, author Vona Johnson, and more at CourageousRetirement.com!

Schedule a free 15 minute Your Path to More call with Vona.

Transcript

Vona Johnson: 0:00

I recently overheard a conversation between a woman and her friend, and it really struck me what she said, and it really reinforced all of what we're doing here. But she was talking about retirement and she had apparently recently retired, and she said the hardest part was making the decision to retire. Today I have a guest, James Ziegler, and we are going to talk about that and, and the process that we go through in making that decision how we get there, and maybe some of the conversations that we have with ourself as to whether it's a good idea or not. So I hope you'll join us for this engaging conversation, Do you fear? What lies beyond retirement? What if it's a gateway to a life filled with purpose, meaning, and adventure rather than an end? Discover peace and fulfillment as you boldly enter this new chapter in Courageous Retirement, a Christian podcast. I'm your host, author, and coach Vona Johnson. Let's get started. James. Welcome. I am so excited to have you here today. This, I've been really looking forward to this ever since we met recently. It's good to have you here. It's great to be here and it's awesome that we prayed before we even started. I love it. Always. Always. Yeah. I just hate to walk into any conversation like this without inviting the Lord to guide the conversation because of course, he knows exactly what needs to be said during this episode. Right. Amen. Yeah. Right. Anyway, you have a, a story. You have many stories. We visited a week before last, and there's just so many things and, and we don't have time today to go over all of those. Fortunately, you've documented those in your book, and we'll talk about that later. But I want to focus on you are retired from a really illustrious career. I mean, you, I would, from our conversation, I would say you pretty much hit the pinnacle of where you could be in the Yeah. In the Vet Veterans Affairs, in the federal government. Yeah. So let's start there. Tell us a little bit about what that career looked like before you made the decision to retire. Yeah. Well, once upon a time I was in the Air Force and did that for 10 and a half years, and I was an enlisted person. And I did. Easy jobs, pretty much, you know, I guarded aircraft a little bit and that was a kind of a part-time job. But then there was a riff, which is very similar to what's going on today. And, uh, president Clinton and uh, vice President Gore drew down the military forces and I essentially lost my job. So I went back to school and I became a speech pathologist and, really. It just felt such great, reward in helping people, get better after strokes and TBIs and little children that were having difficulties reading, et cetera. Then a friend of mine called me when I called him and said I needed a reference. And, I'm ready to be the CEO of a neurocognitive center in Detroit near my sister. And he said, why do you wanna live in Detroit? And I'm like,'cause it's in Michigan and I like Michigan and that's where my sister is. And he says, you're a veteran, right? You should apply for this job in the va. We have a service line chief for physical medicine and rehabilitation. I'm like. Huh, that sounds kind of cool. And that's only 80 miles from where we live right now. And you'll pay me to move. Okay. So it took the government nine months to get me in, but I did get in. And then six years into that job I started to drink the Kool-Aid a little bit and felt what it felt like to have golden handcuffs. So I started the leadership journey and I skyrocketed. I. Through that journey all the way to CEO and a presidential appointment, uh, career appointment as senior executive service member and a VA medical center, director. And it, it was fast, it was furious. It was awesome. It was fearsome. It taught me an awful lot and. When I look back sometimes I think that, you know, God wasn't with me, but God was with me in so many different ways and uh, led to this. Yeah, it's not an illustrious retirement, but it's a flourishing one. And, uh, I can talk more about that. Yeah. Before you go there though, I wanna hit pause on that. We see it all the time where someone gets into that career, I, I experienced it myself. We get into it, we start raising within the organization and we get sucked into. I love how you said, you know, I drank the Kool-Aid. We get sucked into this idea that we're all, that we Yeah. All of that. And a bag of chips. Right? Right. And it's. It's so intoxicating. Yeah. To, to see people look to us for advice and sometimes there's, there's that point at which all of a sudden we realize, and I just, yeah. I don't, I don't wanna name names, but I've seen it even in our government mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Here in South Dakota where people who I've admired and trusted all of a sudden were like. Whoa, what happened? Who is, who is that? And what happened? And it's, it's that power that just kind of gets within us and just kind of seeps out. So as, as Christians, we need to really be plugged in and ready before that opportunity comes our way, or, or we can, we can veer off the path. Would you agree? Absolutely. When, when I started this. I got my first office, right? This is my first executive office. My wife bought me that sign and it says, integrity and it has two paths. And integrity is the wisdom of knowing which path to take. And she said, I know that you will always operate with this because that's what you are. And I'm like, that, that's, that's amazing that you see that in me. That's one of the most. Important things my wife could ever say to me. And, um, that drove me and also drove me and I responded differently. When you sit at the end of that table, sometimes you see integrity being revealed. I talk about this in a book a little bit, that integrity can be revealed that it's good and it can also be revealed that you don't have any. Or you don't respect it. And as a leader at the end of the table, when people reveal that they don't have integrity, and you're desperately trying to instill that in a culture that is the danger zone, oh, and integrity is also one of the most important. Aspects that I strive to live in and what's coming up for me is when I talk about courageous retirement, and we're gonna get into this soon, but I. I, I think it's really important to make the point that when we're going through that decision process, one of the decisions is when's the right time? Yeah. And have, have I prepared not just myself, but my people. Yeah. And I talk about finishing well, and I think it's really important that as we're preparing to retire, if we have the opportunity to help, at least. Steer the people who are hiring towards someone who will lead well. You know, to find that person, whether, you know, it's like prepare that person with the leadership skills and the integrity and, and to help them realize that the power that they're stepping into isn't for their good. It's for the good of the organization. Mm-hmm. Do you, do you agree with that? Can you expand that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a big one. How many people do you know that you absolutely revere? That when they chose to retire, they knew 10 years before they were gonna retire, they were gonna retire and they had$5 million in the bank and they had their second home on the lake and they had their mortgage paid off and they had pizza ordered for the retirement party and everybody showed up and it was a real great day. I bet that percentage of people is pretty low. Yeah, I, nobody that I know of, I didn't, I didn't get a retirement party. I quit. Yeah. Yeah. So my, my story's a bit of a rollercoaster, and I think that people that are listening that are really leaning in towards those golden types of years, that it's different for everyone. It's a very unique experience, and you really do have to approach it. That's what I really like about your mantra, is that you gotta approach this with courage. You do, you do. And not your courage. Approach this with the courage of the Lord and the wisdom and guidance and, and watch for those little things that seemingly are not meaningful, but they really are. I have a funny story about that. Go for it. Let's hear it. Okay, so I retired October 21st, 2023. But in June I sat down on my wife's birthday and I thought, you know what? I'm gonna give her a little present here. I'm gonna kind of tell her about retirement. So I went on this website and I put in all my information and I saw what it was and I took the little paper home and I showed her and she's like, oh, that's great. In July they retired me. Like I got an email that said, thank you. Did doing the test trigger that they're like, oh, he is ready to retire. We gotta, I guess, I guess so. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. And I was frantically trying to stop this process of getting retired when I didn't really mean it. I was just testing the waters, you know, riding a rollercoaster, trying to find out what's it gonna look like, maybe. Yeah. And, um, and then lo and behold, things got much worse. But that's God's way. I, I just love how, you know, he knew where it was going. He knew, and, and that was his way of starting You to be prepared to go where he knew the path was, yeah.'cause I was nowhere near that. I had just sat down in a big leather chair at the end of a table looking at 70 some people every morning. There was no way I was leaving that. Yeah, that was good Kool-Aid. Well, and that's just, it was also a good way to, to give in, you know, and, and it's something that I think is really important about retirement too. There's a, there's a group, it's called Halftime. And while I was kind of going through the process, I, I reached out to this halftime place because they do coaching and they sent me a free book. And I tell you what, that book was really something that lit me up and said, yeah, it's not over. Retirement sometimes feels like I'm gonna sit in the backyard and I'm gonna watch birds and squirrels, pay some kid to mow the lawn, you know? It doesn't have to be that way. You Yeah. It doesn't have to be that way. Well, and I love, I mean, to me, that's why I say it's answering God's call to more. It's when he's, he's calling us to use all of the, the breadcrumbs that he's given us throughout our lives and our careers to bring all those things that our gifts and our talents and our skills and our desires together to go do. What it is that we truly love with our lives and, and I always say we need to retire to something and not away from something. If, if you hate your job, yeah. There's, I always figure there's, there's two directions that's either time to move on, whether you need, you retire or you go get a different job, or, and this is like the one I think we miss the most or we step back. Look at whether we are perceiving that job from the wrong perspective. Are we, are we looking at it as for what we're getting out of it? Mm-hmm. Or are we looking at it from, what are we putting into it? Mm-hmm. Are we glorifying God in that work? Is there a lesson that we need to learn? Or is there a lesson that we need to share with someone else before we leave? Mm-hmm. That's maybe why we're still there. And again, you said it, everybody's path is different, there's not a cookie cutter answer to it. Everybody's is different, and that's why we need to be plugged in with God and know what he's saying about it. Right? Yeah. This is probably the second most important process that you're ever gonna be involved in, in your life. Your next one is your funeral, and you should really show up to that one. You know, I mean, honestly, I don't think there's anything more important than retirement other than that one. Uh, I'm gonna put, um, who you select to be your spouse. That's a big one too. This is true, but that's all part of retirement, you know. Well, I mean, think about, Stephen Covey. Begin with the end in mind. Begin with the end in mind and handle the big rocks first. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, that goes back to those golden handcuffs. You, you start being everything to everyone. Yeah. And then you get drained'cause you don't have it to give to everyone. And the one that you, there's two that you don't give it to. Maybe three. Your family, your, your spouse, and God, and you start putting those big rocks over to the side, pouring in all the sand and all the little rocks. Not to steal from Stephen Covey, but it's a beautiful analogy. It is. And you can't get the big rocks back into the barrel. Right. So that is, that is kind of what I did. But I also, at the same time, and I love the way you said this, was that. It's what you put into, not really what you're getting out of it. And I sat in this balance between those two things. And that balance was integrity. Yeah. I felt like it would go like this day to day, minute to minute. It didn't, it didn't stay like this where I was able to just do a little adjustment. It was like the Titanic having to turn it when something would happen and. That created a lot of stress, increased the cortisol levels in my body to the point that I almost died. Tell you about that in a little bit. Um, but that also was part of why God had me in June do that retirement thing, because when I got to that point where it was so bad and so toxic that I had to walk out of a C-suite, I could. Because I knew that, at least I know that about what the future holds. But we didn't know anything else. I mean, I didn't have the full retirement that I had now, and it's not much. I went from hundreds of thousands of dollars down to less than a hundred thousand dollars just like that in one day. It just all changed. And that was the day before my 60th birthday. Oh, boom. Here you go. But don't you also think that part of the handcuffs is this concept that you can't retire until you have massive amounts of money put aside. Yeah.'cause you're gonna need all of that and, and in reality. That's that part where we, we aren't trusting in God when we think it's up to us to make sure a bank account is a certain level. Yeah. I mean,'cause we can adjust our lifestyle. We can go get another side gig for, for income or whatever. And that for me, my retirement and I, I told you this story a little bit ago, and anybody that's listened to very much of what I do, I've talked about the fact that I agonized over that decision. Mm-hmm. It was so, and I was, I was telling everybody that would listen to me and I was like, well, I could do, you know, and what about, and I told you the story about how my cousin looked at me one day and she's like, are you gonna starve to death? And that was just like this big light bulb. Of course I'm not, God has provided everything I need, but I was, I, I was clinging to this idea that I needed that income. And our lifestyle has changed very little, even though I took early, early retirement and basically left half of my income on the table. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know what? That's okay. I, I didn't agonize over, I didn't have time to agonize over. I don't wish this on anybody to have to go through it the way that I did. Where, but you did survived. You survived. It was an emergent decision. Yeah, it was a mental health decision. It was a spiritual decision that God was telling me. God even told me that through the director that hired me. I hired lots of CEOs, he said, and I never hire anybody without checking with the big guy upstairs. Now, this is a guy that came from the private sector billionaire. Really smart, good leader, and I. I adored him. I thought, man, to have a chance to have this guy as my mentor. And you know what he told me the first meeting that we had together one-on-one, uh, James, I'm, I'm retiring. I'm like, you're retiring. Well, at least we'll get a year or so together. He goes, no, I, I mean I, I'm retiring before Christmas this year. Here you go. So he planning, you were, you were his plan. Yeah, I was the plan. He had to get this position filled in order to take out and, you know, enjoy it. Yeah. But the agony of that decision, God knew that I wouldn't be able to handle it and had me test the waters back there in June. Yeah. To have that competence, that at least I can step into this knowing. That. And then when we got here, it's another just amazing story that in 2017 I had some knee surgery, and as a veteran, whenever you have medical care that was related to your service, you receive benefits if you apply for them, et cetera. Well, long story short, I had a supervisor that, um, abused me for a year, uh, from behind and rubbed himself. My back while I typed a message for him once a week, and I never told anybody. Fast forward to that knee surgery and a veteran services officer asked me if I'd ever experienced military sexual trauma, and for the first time in 25 years, I said yes, and I spiraled immediately. It was, it was awfulness. I, I saw so many things in my life that were related to. What that is. At the exact same time, Matt Lauer was getting the boot and the Me Too movement was coming on and I was just deluged with media and me, and it was overwhelming. It took nine years for the federal government to find that claim. They found that claim when my feet hit ground in Wisconsin without a house living in my daughter's basement, retired, wondering what in the world is gonna happen to us now? A really good friend of mine, Jerry Howard, has, has talked about your failure resume. And I'll tell you what, I had a big, long failure resume at that time and I also had a bully within me that was telling me all these wonderful failures that I had had accumulated. And, um, it took. Eight months of therapy. I had therapy for the MT and now all of a sudden this and three traumatic brain injuries while in the service, um, just was a, a real cacophony of danger. Um, yet the government found the claim, called me and said, you need to go see this psychologist, get this test done, this test, this done. And I. I received the top benefits that you could possibly get as a disabled veteran. Wow. And I always look back and I'm like, how in the world did a guy with three TBIs and MST rise to the point at which he was the CEO, that that's gotta be God?'cause it certainly isn't by my strength, and the retirement wasn't by my strength either. And I think, I think God really knows that about me, and you might know that about people that are listening too. And it's, if you are in that place, I highly encourage you to lean into that, ask God about it. Right? Because it's not really about the retirement and what it will be like and how much it will make and all of that stuff. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's really about what you're gonna be able to give when you have this extra time. Right. How many times you look down at your planner in the day and you go, I don't have time to go to the bathroom. Oh, I don't have that problem. I get busy and forget, but I, that's, and to me that's the best part of saying yes to retirement and answering God's call to more. Yeah. Is that we get to, there's more flexibility in making sure we get the rocks in first. You know, I honestly do not know how I got to work at eight o'clock every morning for 30 years. I just, you know, because I, I start caffeine and no sleep. I don't drink caffeine. But I now know it was because. I didn't have an exercise routine. I didn't, I didn't start every day in the word, you know, I'd filter it in when I could. I, it was the sand I'd put it in where I could, you know? Mm. And now that I start with those things that are the big rocks and fill in with the rest, it's amazing where God has taken the path. He's using the bits and pieces of my life and allowing me to. Feed into the needs in my community. And, and that's really awesome. And it, what's really cool is I was looking into your book some Hmm. And, and I love that you used some of the key words that I use all the time. My, my words are peace and fulfillment. Yeah. And I think when we, when we get our retirement right. We have the peace of being able to set that planner aside a little bit and, and do the things that are on our heart to do, but that we can also, those things that are on our heart to do are gonna bring us fulfillment, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's such a beautiful thing. I wanna touch on though we don't have a lot more time. You talk about the bully within and the resilience and I wanna give the listeners a taste of what they will get if they go get your book. And I also wanna know what the, the chemical part of, okay. The title is. That just has me so curious. Yep. And that, that is truly the root. And as we, as we discover that ourselves and we figure out that it's really not that difficult to actually prevent this from happening to us as a society. And that's, that's why I, my mantra is, I, I would love to reduce bullying one at a time, starting with the one within. Yeah, and I recognize that I had one, I've had people point it out and say, you're a bully. I'm like, I'm not a bully. I'm a nice guy. Are you kidding me? Yeah. I may want my way and I may know the way, so I'm trying to convince you about that, but that's my job, right? I'm a leader. I'm supposed to have a vision and a mission and driving and all that stuff. But, yeah, so the, the bully within is. Something that can be easily reframed. And the way that I say that is that we have these code words that we come up with all the time, right? And resilience is one of those coveted words now, but if you do a definition search on resilience, and I'm not bashing anybody who's got that as their business code. I'm just saying that when you say a word, you say what you say, you mean what you say. If you don't know what you say. It very well may be changing the meaning of what you experience. So resilience at its heart is about a physical property of a material. It goes all the way back to the battleships and the hulls that were built on the on the ships. That's where the word resilience comes from. The phrase, suck it up. Buttercup comes from a pilot phrase of when you are in GS and you're about to, to your cookies, the worst thing you could do is to blow'em into that oxygen mask. Sure. It's gonna go back all over your face and yeah, so that's where, suck it up. Buttercup came from for the greater good. What is that about? Is it about being resilient or is that about compromising your integrity and fighting with it? So really the voice that is talking to you is talking to you about your values and is really a helpful voice. It's not an imposter. It's not a liar. It's not the thief. It's not the devil. It's really something that's beautiful within, and the reframing is I have written a contract with my bully. It's a solid contract built on legal principles that it has a preamble, it has different parts and all of this stuff. It's very intentional that when. The bully says, Hey, you're this, you're that. You're an entrepreneur. You call yourself that. I can lean into it and say, Hey, paragraph two A of our contract says that you and I are gonna talk about this before you come up with an accusation. Cool. So when would you like to meet? How about now? And with my coaching clients, I've actually had them write a letter to their bully. It's. Unbelievably powerful to do. What do you wanna say to that bully? What do you really like about that bully? What do you admire about them? Because then you, when you admire somebody and they're your friend, they, they can hurt you, but it's, the wounds of a friend are different than the wounds of an enemy for sure. Right? For sure. And if you have an understanding with that friend, they're not gonna wound you. You have an understanding, you have a binding contract. Reframe it in that regard. It gives you great peace. Yeah, because you're not against yourself anymore. You're actually a team now. That's very cool. What could be bad about that? No, I love that. That's so the chemical part is as you have this battle we now know and have known for many years that. Cortisol, serotonin, oxytocin, those are like some big names, right? But it's really simple. It comes down to is it an acute thing or is it a chronic thing? An acute thing is like, you see a wolf running at you and you are scared to, you know, eh, it's this thing gonna eat me. That's good. That's good cortisol because it builds you up. It gives you the power that some mothers have that, you know, we've seen them lift cars. That all comes from that acute moment of Superman or Superwoman power. Yep. But when you sit in a boardroom or you're in a, in a dysfunctional relationship, or somebody is constantly talking about your sports team as though you are the owner of the team, and it's like, geez man, it's a game, you know? But the pressure just keeps coming. Yeah, that's what happened to me in Christmas Eve in 2022. I wound up with a pulmonary bilateral widow maker embolism on both sides of my lungs because of chronic, repetitive injuries from stress. Yep. There's a lot about that story that's, that's in the book that I'm not gonna go into now, but God was really involved in that particular issue. And then right after that welcome signed that, Hey James, you know, I'd really like you to pay attention to me a little bit more and some things that are important. I took a CEO job. That's. Well, you know, I, I'm not gonna say that was flesh. I'm gonna, I'm still gonna believe that was God's path.'cause it all led here, right? It all led to writing this book. It all led to 70 plus other people that were so afraid of being bullied in their life, not by just themselves, but by other people that they wouldn't write anything down. When I interviewed them, they wanted to do a phone interview. I put all of their stories into this book in an anonymous way with some characters that I've even had. I got a really good friend of mine, did a, a review on it and he says, there's too many characters. I can't keep track of'em. I'm like, that's exactly why I wrote it that way. So the book is different. I don't know what your experience was, but it is a little bit different than your normal business fable or, or informative 10 Steps to recovery kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many things that we get going up on. I know, right? Yeah, I know. Yeah. Catapult. Yeah. But it's, I think that for me, the main lesson in all of that is that God doesn't waste anything that happens in our lives. No. You can take. All of those things that seem so traumatic to us and turn them into good. Yeah. And honestly, there's just a lot of bullies out there. And Yeah, and I, I've talked about this a couple of times lately'cause it's been really heavy on my heart. In fact, my last episode was just about how. There's two sides to everything. I, it doesn't matter what the issue is today. There are people just at each other, and the reality is, is there might be a little bit of truth on both sides. Both sides. And then I feel like God has stepped back and just said, you know, why don't we stop bickering over who's right. Just learn to be nice to each other and stop being such bullies about it. I feel like it's almost a test to see if we can just step back and, and let him be in control and trust him with the things. There was only, there was only one human in the entire, and I say human in the entire Bible. That was the wisest man that ever lived or ever will, and his name was Solomon. And Solomon, when presented with two mothers who were living together, which is kind of a different story altogether with that stuff, but they come in by different fathers with a baby that one of them laid on and put it to rest. And they're fighting over it. And Solomon says, get me a knife. Right? And the real mother, would she please stand up? She can have it. I don't want my baby killed. You know? And, and that's what, that's what's happening in our, in our political world today. I mean, I. I used to not be able to talk about this kind of stuff because of my appointment, but now I'm retired so I can let a little bit out of what I think about this. And I really think that you are on track, that there's truth on both sides and that, and the challenges is sifting through all of the voices. There's too many voices and they're all bullies. They're all bullies. And do you know the suicide rate now is off the charts? It's not just veterans. It's because the world is so grim, dark, and where did trust go? Right. Where is it? Because who do you trust? What do you trust? Do you trust this media? Do you trust that media to trust this politician, that politician? They both say the same bad things about each other, so what's true? This, this, that's true. That is true. I, and I hate that You got me to show my taped up old, worn out. Well, I wish I had my Bible so I could show, but, and that's exactly my point is everybody is grasping to find out, you know, which side is true. And it's like, it, it doesn't really matter. Yeah. The only thing that matters is what, what our, the word. Yeah. Jesus Christ says, yeah. And who to go back to that chemical thing. Who created those chemicals? Yeah. So they were created for good. Yes. So if you're, if you're, if you're in this boat of thinking about retirement, it's good to have a little bit of nervousness right now. That's a acute. That tension is good, but don't let it repeat itself over time because it doesn't have to be work that stresses us out. It could be a kitchen drawer that we haven't gotten to, to organize. Right. That could stress us out, right? Yes. So the, the, the beauty of this is, is, and then I have this in a book. It's called A Presence Pause. It's very simple. The first thing that you need to do is when that is starting up to determine if this is. It, it is acute when it first starts, but as it repeats, it adds up. So first thing is what's happening in my body? Scan senses, am I tense in my, if you look at my jaw, you, you might think this is like baby steps, but I'm telling you, this is scientifically proven that our bodies, God has created us wonderfully crafted to be able to bear any temptation that comes our way. And that worry is a sin and that anybody that worries about anything ain't gonna get it anywhere, any time. And he tells us to pray for this day, our daily bread. Yes. Right. Yes. When we're too worried about tomorrow or what happened before that, that's building up cortisol. Cortisol builds up inflammation. Inflammation builds up blockages or skin rashes is, or bumps or loss of hair, you name it. Inflammation is the enemy to our fleshly body and our existence here in this. Life, and I learned that firsthand. The doctor came in and told me, you have hundreds of clots in your lungs, your leg. You have a DVT behind your knee, and you have minutes to live. Minutes, minutes, minutes. And yet here you are. Forget about retirement, dude. Right? You got minutes. Wow. Yeah, talk about a wake up call. Yeah. So you, you think about the census and then you get curious about it. What, what, what about this is, what about this is getting my attention. Why is it getting my attention real quick? Right. This happens fast and then very important, you have to analyze your alignment with your values, your faith, your belief. Do you, is it integrity? Is it, is this an integrity issue? Is that why this is bugging me? Aha. Aha. I know how to address this now because I know that I'm sitting in a bit of a judgment seat here because of my values. In their behavior. They don't align. Yeah. But it's not my place to judge that. I'm not gonna call them. Devil because they don't do what I want'em to do, even though that's what we're seeing a lot of in these multiple voices. Right. And then the next part is to be able to name your emotions. Do you know that most people right now probably know like Six emotion works? Yeah. Just try it. Just write down on a piece of paper right now, how many emotion words do I know? And I guarantee you a couple of them that you write down if you're a real overachiever are probably not emotion words. So find yourself one of those emotion wheels that the psychologist had put together. Have it on your desk, and when this is happening, name them. Because they will help you realize a previous situation or something that you can tie this experience that you're going through right now into to better win that day. Well, and isn't there one, uh, an emotion wheel that's actually tied to scripture? Yes. That's, that's, yeah. There's a, there's just a billion of'em out there, and, and, and it's really remarkable to see how many words there are and that. Yeah, that's the one that I've been feeling that it's not anger. I've been feeling that. Yeah, that's, I will try and find that and, and, uh, put a link to it in the show notes.'cause I think that that's awesome. That's really huge. You know, it's funny because I've been working with my coach and, we've been working through hatred. Which is really hard for me. And we've talked about the fact that it's like, I don't hate anybody. And she's like, well, the world's told you that you shouldn't as a good Christian, but there's something from way back that's lingering there that Yeah. That you're not letting go of. And we're working through it and I think, I think I might be letting go of it, but Yeah. But that too adds to that inflammation and that stress in our bodies, even when we're not aware. So yeah. Yeah. Wow. This, we can go for a long time here. I know, I know. It's awesome. But we've, we've gone probably long enough for most listeners. But before we go, and I, I'm just so grateful to have this conversation, but before we go, if there's someone listening and they're like, I am fascinated with this concept and I wanna learn more, how can they find you and connect with you? The website is www dot behold one, the number.com. And I named my practice behold, because there are 1200 scriptures in the Bible. And what happens after John said, behold the lamb of God. That takes away the sense of the earth. I mean, that's what coaching's all about is that moment where you really have that aha and it changes your life. So that's kind of what that's all about. And then my email is the exact same thing. James Ziegler, Z-E-I-G-L-E-R, at behold one.com. And. True, authentic, opening. If you're a veteran or you're somebody else, you're struggling with thoughts of suicide or something's really difficult for you and you just wanna reach out to somebody, here's my number, 9 0 6 8 6 9 1 4 8 0. Just send me a text. We're good to go. That is so generous of you to put that out there for folks. It's tragic. What our veterans are going through in, in the world today. Mm-hmm. So, um, I thank you for the work that you have done and, and are doing to help combat that, so I appreciate that very much. Yeah. So, before we sign off, we've talked about a lot of things, but if folks we're gonna remember just one thing from this conversation, what would you want them to walk away with? God is within you. He promised that he would be with you in you, and you in him. You are not far from the answers because they're in you and he's there and he's got the answers and the world doesn't. Have those answers when it comes to these kinds of really important life decisions. Yeah. And it's not about what he is got down the road. It's about this day, this day I'm talking to myself and God and my bully about how do I retire? Yeah. And yeah, there's some projection that you gotta do, but really God is within you. And those answers are right there too. If I might, I would like to add onto that what I always tell people, and that is that we need to be in the word, we need to be in prayer, and we need to shut the noise from the world down and listen to him. Mm-hmm. Uh, because I don't, I, I feel that if, you know, there are some people that are out there and they're praying all the time. And there are others that are in the word all the time, and there are others that are like, yeah, I just talked to him all day long. But I think if we, if we don't mesh those three, we could easily get distracted and pulled in a direction that isn't necessarily. Yeah. Context is, yeah, exactly. I'm not a, I'm not a self-promoting kind of guy, but if you go to the website, there's a popup tells you about the book. You can get it that way. Okay. Yeah. I just, I don't like that stuff. I'm with you. I'm with you. But, but I also believe and know that, God will get it to the people who need it. And I believe exactly people that are listening to this. If someone's listening and it may not be for you. But you're thinking of somebody else. Yeah. We ask that you share it with them because this is, this is important stuff. Yeah. Vona thank you for having me. I was gonna say, I think that's thinks a perfect way to end this conversation. Yeah. Right. Yeah. James, thanks for this conversation. I loved it. Mm-hmm. And anybody that's listening, I just wanna thank you for, for stopping by today. This, this has been a fun conversation, but it's an important conversation and I just ask that you go, you be blessed, you engage your faith. Mm-hmm. Live your more as you either live in or work towards your courageous retirement.