Courageous Retirement: Answer God's Call to MORE!

46. When Is “Enough” Enough to Retire? Faith, Finances, and Courageous Retirement (with Mike Perez)

• Vona Johnson • Season 3 • Episode 46

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 30:49

When Is “Enough” Enough to Retire? Faith, Finances, and Courageous Retirement (with Mike Perez)

How much is enough to retire?

In this episode of Courageous Retirement, Vona Johnson sits down with Mike Perez, author of Faith and Finances, to tackle one of the most common fears facing retirement-age believers: What if I don’t have enough money saved?

Together, they explore how retirement may require less than we assume—and how financial decisions become clearer when filtered through prayer, calling, and kingdom purpose. Mike shares his practical cash-flow framework, including his five-part “financial pie” (covering giving, taxes, debt, lifestyle, and investing), and introduces the concept of creating a personal financial “finish line.”

This conversation goes beyond numbers. Vona and Mike talk about releasing the need to strive, trusting God with outcomes, and shifting from accumulation to impact. Mike shares the story of selling a second home after bathing the decision in prayer—gaining margin, increasing generosity, and expanding meaningful travel as a result.

They also discuss:

  • Viewing ROI through a kingdom lens
  • Living as faithful “seed planters” in everyday conversations
  • The courage to step away from distractions (including social media during Lent)
  • The power of community encouragement
  • Approaching second-half-of-life transitions with flexibility and trust

If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re financially ready—or spiritually ready—for retirement, this episode will help you rethink “enough” through the lens of faith.

Connect with Mike at MikePerezSpeaks.com for his book, workshops, speaking, and personal consultations.

00:00 When Is “Enough” Enough to Retire?
01:35 Letting Go of Striving in the Second Half
03:40 Understanding the Five-Part Financial “Pie”
05:45 Aligning Lifestyle Choices with God’s Calling
07:30 Selling the Lake House: A Prayerful Decision
09:40 Margin, Generosity, and New Freedom
11:55 Kingdom ROI vs. Performance-Based Thinking
14:30 Living as Faithful “Seed Planters”
16:45 Lent, Social Media, and Creating Margin
19:25 Small Acts of Faithful Impact
21:35 Presence Over Distraction
23:50 Taking Bold Steps (Including an Israel Trip Without Fear)
25:35 How to Connect with Mike Perez
27:35 Final Encouragement: Money, Faith, and Courageous Retirement

Scriptures Referenced

"And we know that God causes everything to work together[a] for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them." 

Romans 8:28 NLT

I'd love to hear from you! Send me a text message!

Thank you for stopping by today! Remember to Engage Your Faith and Live Your More as you reap the benefits of Courageous Retirement!

 Check out my YouTube Channel!

Learn more about the show, author Vona Johnson, and more at vonajohnson.com!

Schedule a free 15 minute Your Path to More call with Vona.

Join ClubMore!

One of the questions that we hear so often is, when do I have enough resources to retire? Well, today I have a guest, Mike Perez, author of Faith and Finances, and we're gonna tackle that very topic. I think you're gonna be surprised by the answer.

Speaker 4:

Do you fear? What lies beyond retirement? What if it's a gateway to a life filled with purpose, meaning, and adventure rather than an end? Discover peace and fulfillment as you boldly enter this new chapter in Courageous Retirement, a Christian podcast. I'm your host, author, and coach VNA Johnson. Let's get started.

Speaker 2:

When I left my career to mm-hmm create a business on my own. It was really hard to let go of this focus of, you know, I just, I have to do more. I have to make more money. I have to, I have to, I have to. And one day it was just like, hit me over the head. God has provided everything I need out of my retirement, and there are people that that. Haven't had the blessing to work in a career where they've built up that pot of money for retirement, and that's, that's a different conversation entirely. I specifically wanna talk to the people who do have that nest egg and are afraid to retire because they don't know if they have built up enough. And I generally say it doesn't take nearly as much money as you think it does. To live a good life. Right. It doesn't, the goal shouldn't necessarily be to take cruises and lay on the beach all, all the time. You know, we, we want more than that, right?

Speaker:

Yeah. Well, I think, we, the, the second H in my framework is around what we call financial health, and it's all about, cash flow, what's coming in, what's going out? And we have this pie that we call o Grow live give. So your money can only go five places. The OS rep represents two of the five, uh, which would be taxes and debt payments, right?

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker:

So in a, in a very simplistic way, everybody gets a pie. Some people's pies are bigger than others.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But everybody only gets five pieces of pie, and they're all competing with each other. Okay. Um, and, and so that, that's what has to be managed. What's interesting to me is one of the pieces of pie is live, like, what do you need to live? Yeah. And so one of the questions I get from people periodically is, Mike, what is the appropriate lifestyle? Like what, what should I be doing? And my answer is the same every single time, which is, I don't know, because that's between you and the Lord. Right?

Speaker 2:

Right. Um.

Speaker:

Whatever the Lord's calling you to. I mean, some people need more than others. It's interesting to me, and people that are listening can actually look this up. There's, I know these guys, matter of fact, I was just on a call earlier today with one of the brothers, um, they're two brothers. I, I think they're on the east coast, but they have a podcast, I believe it's called The Finish Line Pledge. And, um, it's, it's a whole movement around creating a financial finish line. Right. Like when is enough enough? And I think one of the problems, especially, I can't speak for other cultures, but like in American culture, it's like it's never enough. I mean, right. I, as a financial professional, I have mathematically proved to people without a shadow of a doubt. You are going to be okay. And they still worry about money. They still worry about

Speaker 2:

yes.

Speaker:

If they're gonna have enough. And I'm like, people, come on. Stop it.

Speaker 2:

That's exactly my point. Yeah. In fact, I've told this story about when I literally met the point at which I was eligible to retire, take early retirement. So the, the rule of 85 here in South Dakota, and I gave my notice the day that I hit the rule of 85.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

But coming up to that, you know, it's like you, you work your whole career and you think about retirement all the time, right? It's like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna gonna, and then as it gets closer, it's like, oh, wait a minute. Am I really, I've been saying I'm going to do it. Am I really, do I have enough? You know, am I gonna be able to survive? Am I gonna, you know, and all these things. And I was having, I would, I was rattling it off to anybody that would listen at that stage, just wrestling with the decision. And my cousin looked at me, we were cruising down the highway one day and I was, going through the pros and cons and all the things. And she, she was driving, she looked at me and she said, are you gonna starve to death? It was just like,

Speaker:

yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2:

no, I am far from starving to death. You know, are there things that I wouldn't be able to do because I gave up the income? Sure. Were there things I really need to do? No. In fact, you know, our lifestyle hasn't changed really at all. Because we have savings and retirement

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker 2:

So sometimes I feel like that's just one of the lies we've been handed is that you have to have at least however blank millions of dollars you need to have. And I'm not saying it's bad to live a lifestyle. I mean, maybe, maybe God is calling you to travel the world and share about Jesus. And the different cultures and all of that, which is gonna cost money, that's great. But if that's not what he's calling you to, you know, I mean, just really take time to listen, to see where he's taking you. Not to say that it'll be forever. It might change.

Speaker:

Well, that's why, that's why we always lead with the heart. I mean, everything. I mean, God knows our hearts, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And, and he wants the best for us. And that could involve, you know. Fun stuff. Right, right. Um, very, you know, it, it should, um, but God's always gonna know the heart behind it, right?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And everybody's called to something different. There's a great story, I've heard him tell it more than once. Uh, Ron Blue, who's the co-founder of Kingdom Advisors, of which I'm a. Certified Kingdom Advisor. I was just at the conference, um, he tells the story about back when he was, he, he owned an accounting firm and then, um, he's got a, he had started a wealth management firm that still has his name on it. Um, but he was telling the story about a Christian, I'm gonna say it was a doctor had come to him back in the day and said, Hey, I wanna buy this million dollar house. What do you think? And Rah was like, I don't know. That's between you and the Lord. And so the guy, the guy ended up buying the house and the house ended up becoming a hub for Christian ministry. Okay,

Speaker 2:

cool.

Speaker:

And so God was using that million dollar house for something good for the kingdom. So once again, it's, it's always One of the other things that we talk about, like in my four Hs of financial wisdom, um, is all spending decisions are spiritual decisions, right? Which is why, you know, almo not, not like, you know, buying a cup of coffee in the morning, but, uh, most decisions of significance, I'm always going to bathe them in prayer, um, to make sure that that's, that's God's will. It's kind of funny, we've, we've had a lake house, like a second home, lake house for a number of years, and in recent years, every year we threatened to sell it and, um. Then we just, you know, we'd get out there, we'd have fun, and we're like, oh, we can't do it. Well, it just kept building, building. So last year was the year to sell it. Okay. And it was kind of a wonky deal, but we got the deal done and everything. It was a, it was a total relief for me. Unfortunately, my wife Linda, she had tremendous seller's remorse on the backside, and so I had to like literally. Talk her off the, off the ledge, right? So to speak. And I remember her asking me, she said, how do you know we made the right decision? And I said, very simple. I said, that thing, that decision was bathed in prayer and I know it was the right decision. You may not totally feel that right now, but I believe, uh,'cause I think God has spoken that over time it will all make sense to you. And it's kind of funny because now we're. Let me get my months right. I think we're about nine or 10 months beyond that. And, uh, she's obviously in a much better place now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. No, and and he's probably got something else out there that's even more exciting and, you know,

Speaker:

well, it's happening. It's actually happening. Oh yeah, because, because now. We don't have that obligation. So we've been able to ramp up our, so go back to my pieces of pie. We've been able to ramp up our giving piece of pie. We've also, from a lifestyle perspective, we've been able to do a little bit more traveling than what we were doing before. Yeah. And so it's just been a beautiful thing. But it's also, I'm a, I'm a big fan of the word margin. I think most people don't have enough margin in their lives. Right? And so it's not only given us margin financially. But it's also just kind of given us, you know, margin as far as head space and, you know, just not having to deal with that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You know, um, one of the things kind of along those lines, when I retired, um, I had this I idea. You know, it's been almost 10 years ago. I'm, and when it started, it was 10 years ago and I, I'm sure I prayed about it. I'm sure that I was listening and asking and all the things, and I invested a ton of money to become a master certified health and life coach and mm-hmm. All the things, and that's really never panned out.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And. Um, recently, you know, and you get to a point where it's like, okay, I have, I have put enough resources into this. Lord, if I'm on the wrong path, just show me, you know? And, and recently I had, um, someone reach out and I ended up investing with this person to help me with my languaging and whatever. It was interesting because I was thinking of it in terms of. Helping sell more books and, and reach more people with the message.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And as well as I thought we were communicating, this person was really trying, I mean, his goal was to get me 10 clients.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

And my reaction to that was almost, it was, it was almost scary.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

cause I realized I don't want. 10 clients.

Speaker:

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I love the life that God has brought me to. I'm open to, you know, stepping into something different if he brings that to me, but it felt like striving and it felt like pushing and. If somebody comes to me and says, Vona I, I really like what you're doing here. Would you walk that journey with me? I would love to coach that person, but I am not interested in putting all of my efforts into finding 10 people that you know I can coach, because I just feel like. I trust God enough that he will, he will bring them through the efforts that I'm doing already. Does that make sense to you?

Speaker:

It, I'll tell you what, it makes total sense because I'm experiencing some of the same kind of stuff right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I think, uh, matter of fact, I just had this conversation with my wife that, um. Sometimes you, you know, you and I, I mean, I don't know you that well, but you and I think are doers, like we get stuff done and um, you know, you don't always see the fruit from that, uh, or it's not super apparent. Um, but I've learned in all my years that, and I kind of think of Romans 8:28, God, you know, works all things together for the good of those who love him, that. Yeah. Even though I can't see the fruit or I can't really see where this is going, but on one hand I feel like, no, God, thi this is what you called me to do. Now what's going on here? Like I'm seeing a total disconnect. And then time goes by, could be months, it could be years. And then all of a sudden you start connecting the dots back and you go, ah, okay, I got it. And, and, and the other thing is, and I've said this earlier, is. I'm having to get over myself on this whole return on investment thing. I, I just, I wanna look at it through a kingdom lens. Um, and, and when I do that and I pause and I go, oh wow. I had kingdom impact there. I had kingdom impact there. Maybe, maybe there was some money involved, maybe not. But I'm more interested in those things now because those are the things that are gonna. You know, last for a long time it was, I'm reading a book right now. Somebody recommended it to me. It's, it's by, uh, mark Batterson who has the church in DC

Speaker 2:

mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Called Gradually. Then suddenly.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I haven't read that one. I've read several of his, but not that one.

Speaker:

Yeah. And he just wrote it recently and it's a, I I'm, I'm really getting into it, so I'm gonna read it quickly. Um, but one of the things that he talks about is the long play, right? Yeah. And he gives these scenarios, uh, he even uses, there's a, a species of butterfly where it takes generations to go all the way to where they go down south. And then get back to where they were in the north. But it takes multiple generations. So you could be one generation that plays a part.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But you don't necessarily get to go the whole journey. And I was like, how cool is that, that we just have to be okay with where we are and the role that we're playing.

Speaker 2:

Well, and, and I think that that's a really important message because, um, just recently and, and we, we all know. You know, the, the planting of the seeds, the harvest and all of that. But recently, it's just just hit me over the head that my job is to be. In real conversation with whoever's right in front of me and in that conversation, I might be planting a seed. I might be nurturing that seed. I might be harvesting that seed. I, I may not even know. Because that's the Holy Spirit's job. My job is to just be present in the conversation. Yes. And you know, and I know what it is. I'm, we're doing, um, Greg Koukal's study on tactics to learn to have conversations, um, more, you know, more questions and engaging with people who have different views. And we do. And, and he talks about just, getting that pebble in their shoe, you know, give them that one thing to think about. How it might really, the reality might be different than they thought it was.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And, and so I just love that idea that not my job. All I have to do is plant or nurture that seed, and I, I can sleep at night knowing that if the Holy Spirit wants me to come back and harvest he'll, he'll make that happen.

Speaker:

Yeah. It's interesting. I love the whole concept of us being seed planters, right? Yeah. That's what you and I do every day. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

We're

Speaker:

just out there trying to plant seeds and it's, I mean, it can be through the most mundane interactions with people. Right. Somebody once said to me, and I, I think the context was they were talking to me about, you know, parenting as a father, but they're like, Mike, you gotta trust what's happening in the soil. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So

Speaker:

our job is just to plant the seeds and then you trust what is happening in the soil, which is what the farmer has to do. Right. The farmer puts this, which they're gonna be doing here in the next couple of months. They're gonna put the seed in. Okay. And then they just gotta trust that whatever's in that soil, right? Yeah. And whatever, you know, comes from the environment.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

That it's gonna produce what it is gonna produce the harvest or the crop.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You know, I think what is a really cool example of that is just this morning I had a conversation and so in context, we are having this conversation at the beginning of Lent. Yeah, it was funny because every year when Lent comes around, it's like, you know, maybe I should get off Facebook. Oh, I can't do that. You know? Yeah. I'll miss out on all these opportunities and I just can't do that. And this year it was like. I'm gonna do that. Uh, I'm, it's, I'm ready. And I went to church on Sunday and I'll be darned if pastor's sermon wasn't on just that. It's like, do a news cleanse, get away from all the commentary, all the stuff, and then also step away from social media and focus all the time that you would be doing on that, on Jesus, you know, more devotions, more conversations, all of that. And so, um. All in, it's all off my phones, all the things. And so this morning I had the opportunity to get together with other Christians and talk and pray and yeah. Um, there was a young man on the call who kind grew up in the church, but it kind of drifted like so many of us do.

Speaker:

That's right.

Speaker 2:

And had come back and, you know, was really, really making a commitment to make. His faith a priority and find a church to grow in and all of that. But when they, they moved back home, they found that in the midst of all the family, the family had shifted to this whole more new agey.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

All kinds of really, um. Not real Christian-like things. He, the way he described it was, um, they were an island surrounded by piranhas.

Speaker:

Mm. Okay.

Speaker 2:

And, and that's a tough place to be as a new Christian, you know? Oh, yeah. And so we just got to have this beautiful conversation. And it wasn't just me, there were several of us on the call to encourage him to stay in the word don't. Don't give up hope. Know that, you know, plant the seeds, find a community. I mean, all of the things. And it just, for me, it just, it was so helpful to realize that that was where I needed to be this morning. I didn't need to be out writing a sales page. I didn't need to be out, you know, making a pitch or anything like that. I needed to be there to just encourage and support a new baby Christian, if you will. Yeah. That, that it's, they're, they're exactly where they need need to be and that they will continue to grow as long as they continue to nurture and find people. And it felt so amazing. And I really feel that sometimes we want it to be bigger. Than it is. Um, but it doesn't have to be big. We don't need a podcast. We don't need to write a book. We don't need to do all those things unless God asked us to.

Speaker:

Yes, yes. No, I, I think, um, one of the speakers at the Kingdom Advisor Conference, uh, who I saw him speak there 11 years ago. Then I got into his world. I went to Israel with him and everything. He's a guy by the name of Bob Goff who wrote the

Speaker 2:

book.

Speaker:

Love Does

Speaker 2:

I saw your picture of you with him.

Speaker:

I to show you how cool he is. And you know, he always has his Boston Red Sox hat on, which he doesn't know anything about baseball or the Red Sox or a whole story. Oh,

I

Speaker 2:

didn't know that. Okay.

Yeah,

Speaker:

there's a whole story behind he, he wears that hat because of a woman who died of cancer was a friend of, uh, Bob and his wife.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker:

Um. She was a Boston Red Sox fan, but, um, what's cool about him is, you know, we're in the big, you know, Marriott World Center down in Orlando and he was scheduled to speak Wednesday night, the first night of the conference. And he was just hanging around out in the hallways and stuff, you know, at this big conference. And he's kind of a celebrity of sorts. Mm-hmm. But he was just hanging out and I went up and he remembered me from Israel and all this other stuff. And, um. One of the things that I love about him, just from reading his books and listening to his podcast, he's all about being available to people and I've just, in a world he put his phone

Speaker 2:

number in his book.

Speaker:

Exactly, exactly. And I remember somebody said, you know, he's leading, there were a lot of us on the trip to Israel. Somebody said like one night he was up in the middle of the night for like two hours because somebody had called him, right? Yeah. And um, yeah, he's got his, he's got his cell phone number in the back of the book.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Um, but he is the epitome of just being available for people. And I think that is such a gift in this distracted world that we live in. I don't know about you, but. There's nothing worse. And I meet people like this all the time. There's nothing worse that people, uh, people who are so distracted, like when you're having a conversation, you feel like, I don't even think they're listening to me. Yeah. I mean, they, they got one foot out the door, you know, looking somewhere else and I go, okay, I'm done. I'm good.

Speaker 2:

You know, it's interesting you say that because, um. I'll just say someone dear to me is in the process of transitioning to a new job.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Um, much younger person, not even close to retirement, but I think it's still valid and there are a number of reasons why it was time to do that. But one of the primary ones, I think was when she was trying to have conversations with her employer about the challenges she was having. That person was never fully engaged in the conversation. Somebody would walk into the office and just interrupt their conversation. The phone would ring and he'd answer it. Yeah. It was just always, uh, you know, he'd show up two hours late for a meeting. I mean, it was just, he just wasn't present and, and we need people in our lives to be present.

Speaker:

That's right. That's right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And

Speaker:

some days it's, some days it's harder than others, but we have to at least be aware of it and be intentional.

Speaker 2:

Well, and I mean there are always gonna be those days when we can't silence our phone because daycare might call because we know our kid wasn't feeling that good that day or, or whatever. Um, you know, there were many calls I was on, um, when my dad was still alive, and I would just say. I gotta leave my phone on because I don't know that, you know, the, the home might call at any moment. Um, you know, I apologize in advance when people know that those are the kinds of things that you're dealing with. They don't mind that you might take a call, but when that's the everyday way of handling the people in your life, then it's not genuine and it's not helpful at all. Yeah.

Speaker:

I'm with you. I'm with

Speaker 2:

you. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. We could talk all day. Um, I'm really, there's a lot of stuff

Speaker:

we can cover for sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure. So I'm really curious. Um, so you, you went to Israel, how long has it been?

Speaker:

Uh, I went in, uh, April of 23, which was before the war started in October.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I, I will be there this year in October.

Speaker:

Fantastic.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. I am just super excited about it. And, um. Yeah, something I've always wanted to do and I, I, it's amazing to me how many people are like, oh, you know, I'm not sure I'd be, I would be so afraid. And I'm like, there are, there are cities right here in the United States that are probably less safe than it is there right now. And

Speaker:

we never, we never felt unsafe when we were there. Um, looking back, I felt like. There was a little edginess to the people. Um mm-hmm. Probably because of just the tension that exists over there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, but we never felt unsafe. And I, I think that's one of the, as a matter of fact, before we went, there was some stuff being lobbed from, I think the Syrian side into the north. And I remember there were a couple of moments where people were like, you're gonna go over there. And I, I remember just thinking, well, eh. I'm going. I mean, if that's how, if that's how I go out, that's how I go out. You know,

Speaker 2:

we're better placed than where Jesus walked.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. We

Speaker:

can't, as you, you know, we can't live our lives in fear. I mean, we gotta be smart, but.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah. And I, I guess I believe that if something changes between now and then the trip will be canceled and, and that's okay too. You know, uh, I just, yeah. I'm, I'm excited about that opportunity. That's awesome. I think that might be a great place to stop this conversation. We may need to have another one another day. Yeah. Yeah. So, Mike, there are people listening that may go, you know, I think I need to talk some more about some of this, these, mm-hmm. Four Hs. Um, how, how would they be able to find you, Mike?

Speaker:

The easiest way to get ahold of me is I have a website, which is Mike Perez, that's P-E-R-E-Z, Mike Perez speaks.com. On that site, if you wanna, you know, book a 15, 20 minute call to kick things around, you can do that. If you wanna get a copy of my book on Faith and Finances, uh, which kind of has the four H in it, um, you can get the ebook, the physical book, or the audio book from that site. Um, I do speaking, I do workshops, so everything is pretty much there. Uh, and then like I said, I'm also a partner in a national biblically based wealth management firm. Um, that's kind of separate from, uh, Mike Perez speaks. But yeah, I'm pretty much immersed in the faith in finance world. That's what I do.

Speaker 2:

I think that that's awesome. You know, um, money is not the root of all evil. Right.

Speaker:

It's the love of money.

Speaker 2:

It's, that's right. Um, I think most people listening to this know that already, but it can trip us up, so, um, oh, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I just,

Speaker:

yeah, well, I was gonna say, just think about it. I mean, so much of the Bible, what was written, was written about money in possessions, and many of the parables were about that. So I think God knew the power that money could have over our lives in a negative way.

Speaker 2:

We, just recently read the, the parable of the, the rich young man who wasn't able to let it go. Um, and, and how heartbreaking that is. So hopefully, hopefully nobody listening here is in that place.

Speaker:

The poor young lad.

Speaker 2:

Right. Any last thoughts for our listeners before we sign off today, Mike?

Speaker:

No, I just, I I love the title of this podcast, courageous Retirement, because I do believe, and I'm, I'm, I'm seeing this. Matter of fact, I was, um, having dinner last night with a couple from church and the husband who's about 60.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Just, they had a, a liquidation event. He got a big payout and resigned. They didn't even hang around.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And, um, he's 60 years old and. He's gotta figure out what's next. And that is a like unpacking that. I mean, they're dealing right now with like the wife is go thinking, you're in my space now. Used to go, that's

Speaker 2:

my concern. Yes,

Speaker:

you were gone 12 hours a day and now you're getting in my space. So that's a

Speaker 2:

real thing.

Speaker:

It's a real thing. And so, you know, I work with a lot of people in the second half of life and so there's just, it's not only the money, but there's just so many things that have to be dealt with. Uh, emotional stuff. Yeah. And you have to have courage, um, to, to get through this season of life. And I think part of having courage is allowing yourself to be vulnerable, to say, Hey, I don't have it all figured out. And then reach out to people like you and I and say, Hey, could you walk alongside me,

Speaker 2:

right?

Speaker:

So that I can figure these things out so I can get to a really good place and make this season of life, uh, one of the best of my life.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I think that is so wonderful. And I think maybe one last message there, and that is what's really beautiful about this season of life is we can try something on and if it doesn't work, we can. Try something else. We aren't, we aren't committed to it for forever. Um, there's just so much freedom in doing what our heart desires, where, where the Lord leads us and you know, there's this fear of, oh, but what if I do it wrong? Well, so you did it wrong. You'll learn a lesson and you try something different, right?

Speaker:

Yeah. Is I always tell my daughter, when, when things don't go the way you want, it's just information. That's all it is. It's just information that shows you that, hey, we gotta go in a little different direction. So it's not, it's, it's not failure, it's just information to get to a different place.

Speaker 2:

Amen to that.

Speaker:

Amen.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you Mike. This has been just such a delight. I really enjoyed our conversation and I, uh, look forward to more in the future. You got it. Thanks

Speaker:

for all you do and I'll talk to you soon. Okay?

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker:

Alright,

Speaker 2:

take care.

I hope this conversation brought you some peace around the question of when is enough enough, and I pray that you are in prayer about when God is calling you to your next. Season of life when God is asking you to move on and try something different. It does take courage. But with him, all things are possible. If either Mike or I can help you take that next step, we would love to help you. I will have, contact information in the show notes Thank you for stopping by today. I'll see you back here in two weeks at Courageous Retirement Go be blessed and always, always live your more.