47. Putting First Things First: A Christ-Centered Vision for Retirement

What if the most important part of retirement planning has nothing to do with money?

In this episode of Courageous Retirement, Vona sits down with certified financial planner and consultant Kevin Berwald to explore a different starting point for retirement: putting Christ first.

Kevin shares why retirement is about far more than financial security, travel plans, or lifestyle goals. Instead, he encourages listeners to consider a deeper question: What is God’s purpose for this season of life?

Together they talk about the foundation of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, the importance of being “born again,” and how life’s challenges often become the very places where God builds trust, faith, and lasting peace.

Kevin also introduces his book Mission Retirement, which helps individuals create a personal retirement vision and mission statement focused on what truly matters—faith, relationships, health, stewardship, service, and legacy.

This thoughtful conversation invites you to step back, seek God’s direction, and rethink what a truly courageous, purpose-filled retirement could look like.

Quotes from Kevin: 

"God will take you to the point where you can't handle it, so you have to turn to him."

 "It's all about, it's always, always has been, always will be about God's will."

 "Our courageous retirement is being courageous enough to let God do His thing and realize it's not about us. That's where the courage comes from sometimes is letting go."

Verses referenced:

“Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends." Revelations 3:20  

"Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:7

Purchase the book, Mission Retirement

Email Kevin: kevin@catalyst4growth.org

Timestamp:

00:00 – Rethinking retirement: starting with purpose
01:05 – Why putting God first changes everything
02:44 – The foundation of being “born again”
04:28 – The question that matters most: Who is Jesus to you?
06:17 – When worldly success still feels empty
09:43 – A mother’s prayers and a journey back to faith
12:59 – How surrender often comes through life’s trials
16:09 – The Milky Way perspective: trusting God’s bigger plan
19:02 – Prayer as a relationship with God
21:13 – An Israel trip and learning to trust God more deeply
25:23 – Faith and perspective during global uncertainty
26:00 – Surprising church growth in Iran
27:50 – The idea of a purposeful retirement legacy
28:25 – “Did God really say?” and s

Thank you for stopping by today! Remember to Engage Your Faith and Live Your More as you reap the benefits of Courageous Retirement!

 Check out my YouTube Channel!

Learn more about the show, author Vona Johnson, and more at vonajohnson.com!

Schedule a free 15 minute Your Path to More call with Vona.

Join ClubMore!

Transcript

Speaker 2 0:00

Many people plan retirement around money, travel, and lifestyle. What if the most important question is simply,"Who is Jesus Christ to you? Today in Courageous Retirement, I am joined by Kevin Berwald. He's a certified financial planner and author of Mission Retirement. Kevin believes retirement planning should begin with something many people overlook. Putting Christ first.

Speaker 3 0:22

Do you fear? What lies beyond retirement? What if it's a gateway to a life filled with purpose, meaning, and adventure rather than an end? Discover peace and fulfillment as you boldly enter this new chapter in Courageous Retirement, a Christian podcast. I'm your host, author, and coach VNA Johnson. Let's get started.

Vona Johnson 0:40

I wanna welcome you to the show and I'm really looking forward to our conversation about what retirement looks like or can look like if we do truly answer God's call to more. Let's start, Kevin, with just talking a little bit about, so we we're both talking to folks that are at or near retirement and the world wants to tell us that it's all about the money and it's all about the trips and all of the amazing things that. Look really great in the world, but we both know that it's so much more than that and it's, to me, retirement is truly an opportunity to use the resources that we've been building our whole life and just stop and take a look at now where can I use those to really, really make an impact or an influence the people that God's brought into my life.

Kevin Berwald 1:32

Yeah. There, there's so, so very much to what you just said, but I. You know, I, I always think you, you know, first things in my perspective are always first. Um, and that is, we know that, that we, that, that God purposefully created us, even us to be together today, right? At this very point. Um, before God created the universe, before he created anything, he spoke everything into existence. You know, he thought of us and there's no mistake that we are in the spot we're at right now in our lives so that we can do the will and the works that God provided for us even before we were ever created. And, and, and it's that will, uh, I believe it's God's will and his purpose, that truly when we're, when we are following what God's will is and his plans for us, that it's not what we're doing for him. It's actually what he's doing for us. Mm-hmm. Because the word tells us, and God tells us that when we're following his purpose and doing his will, that he, he not only wills us, but he equips us and he empowers us, and he gives us that peace, that love, that joy, that happiness that you cannot get anywhere else outside of anything. So the the first thing I think to recognize thinking, first things first in my perspective. And, uh, and the way I look at this is in order for us to know and even understand and be able to, uh, spiritually understand what God's will is and what he wants us to do and how he's prepared us through all our experiences and all the things we went through in our life as we look backwards, um, is the very first thing is we have to be able to understand it. And you cannot understand it until first as Christ said, you're born again.'cause we know that, you know, we were promised that. When we accept Jesus Christ, not just in our head, but when we accept Christ as our personal savior, we turn everything we have over to Him, uh, and we make him our Lord and Savior and recognize that He's in. He's all powerful and has everything he promises to come in and reside in our hearts. And when he comes inside of us and resides in our hearts, he changes us from the inside out. So when he changes from the inside out, all of a sudden the things we used to desire before we were born again aren't the things we desire anymore. The actions and the fruit of the spirit come from him being inside of us and fe, you know, and, and doing things that we're doing today. You know, whether, whether it's spending time with other Christians, whether we're in prayer with God, whether we're reading his word, we're doing his works, doing his will. When we do those things, he promises to give us even more. But until we're born again, we can't understand what God's will really is for us, and we're not empowered to do his will. And, and I really, truly believe what, what God placed on my heart not that long ago. Uh, is, you know, as I was doing things, he, he reminded me that when I'm doing things for him, and I think it's sacrificial. That really it's what he's doing for me or doing for us, not what I'm doing for him. He's empowering us. So I know that's some, that's a deep thing or a deep conversation to have with people, but I think the first thing to really be able to, um, use our experiences and our knowledge and the gifts that the Holy Spirit empowers us with. You don't get those things and you don't increase those things and multiply those things. Until you're born again. So that's the first thing. So my question for everybody, and this is I think some people sometimes, I don't know if they get tired of hearing this or not. I know my wife does, uh, because I'm always suggesting when we get in these conversations, I always start with people and I ask them the question, you know, who is Jesus Christ to you? Who is Jesus to you? And I, and I wanna know, because no matter what we talk about in the distractions of life, um, whether it's, you know, there's a lot of things going on right now, um, you know, internationally with, um. You know, wars and, uh, there's a lot of political things going on and there's, there's regional and local issues going on, and people wanna debate and talk about all these topics. And I, I think as we were kind of talking about before, how, you know, we can be deceived. I think if we can be focused away from what the most important thing is, which is being born again and who Jesus Christ is to you first, then you know. Satan thinks he's winning because that's the most important thing we have, have to be born again. We have to know who Christ is to us, that he's our Lord and Savior there. We understand who he is and, and they have a personal relationship with him where he is guiding you and leading you, uh, in life. And so that's my perspective on where I start and where I come from and, you know, is we're on this video talking about this, uh, you know how there's no coincidences with God while we're even having this conversation right now, but. You know, someone might be watching this or will be in the future, and maybe the Holy Spirit's gonna be working on what on them based on our conversation right now. And the first thing I would ask them, or any, anyone who's watching this video, if you wanna think about really having a courageous retirement or retirement really looks like for you. I think the first thing is to ask yourself who Jesus Christ is to you personally and, uh, and where you are in, uh, in relationship to him.

Vona Johnson 6:39

That's, that's really a great place to start, and I thank you for that. You know?

Kevin Berwald 6:43

Mm-hmm.

Vona Johnson 6:44

In my own life, um, you know, I grew up in the church and I, I teenage years, college years, drifted a long ways away. Oh boy. Um, but I always knew that Jesus Christ was my Lord and Savior. I, I could quote that, right?

Kevin Berwald 7:05

Mm-hmm.

Vona Johnson 7:06

It wasn't until. I started having these real challenges in my life that I started leaning in and starting to started to realize who he really was for me and mm-hmm. You know, the, the times when he would say, don't worry, we, I, we've got this, I'm, I'm right here. We've got this. That's

Kevin Berwald 7:27

right. Yeah.

Vona Johnson 7:28

And, um, I talk about it in my book and, and truly, um, I, you hit on so many of the things that I talk about because truly. The book is called A Different View. Start Living the Life your soul longs for. And until you get to that point where you are born again, truly born again, you don't realize that your soul really longs for more of him. Hmm, always. And so, I mean, we spend so much of our lives. I personally, you know, I can't speak for everybody else, but I spent so much of my life trying to fill. This need for this longing with all of the things the world told me I needed recognition, salary, promotion, you know, the all, all the things. Um, and it wasn't until I retired and started my own coaching business. And I say it freely by the world standard. A colossal failure.

Kevin Berwald 8:35

Yeah.

Vona Johnson 8:35

But it wasn't until I tried in every angle and I hired all the experts in the gurus to show me how to have success, and it didn't work. It wasn't until then that I really leaned into God and said, okay, let's, let's, what do you want? Then I started to get the things that you were talking about, and I started to understand that none of that other stuff matters. Um, and we have a tendency to think, I've got this, I, you know, I, I've got my, my degrees, I've got the promotions, I've got everything. I don't really, you know, we, we go to God when, when we're in trouble. Right?

Kevin Berwald 9:20

That's right. That's right.

Vona Johnson 9:22

Um, and. To me, you know, you think about Born Again and the con conversation with Nicodemus and, um, how hard it really is for people to humble themselves to, to really say I surrender. Okay,

Kevin Berwald 9:41

yeah,

Vona Johnson 9:41

I get it.

Kevin Berwald 9:42

Oh, even, and you don't have to be Nicodemus, who is a spiritual leader. Right,

Vona Johnson 9:46

right.

Kevin Berwald 9:47

Coming, coming to Jesus as at night by himself. Right.

Vona Johnson 9:50

You

Kevin Berwald 9:51

know, to, so he wouldn't, you know, he could kinda cloak the fact that he was there to try to learn from Jesus. Um, uh, you know, it's an amazing situation. You can just be an, a normal person with pride. Right, right. And, and it's hard to let go and it's hard to give up. Uh, and, and I I love your perspective. It, I feel like we, it's almost like a kindred spirit because, uh, I, I can tell you that although I was saved at a, a very young age, in fact, I often. Um, I don't often, well, I, I bring this up quite a bit, but this is actually a, a bible that my mother gave me.

Vona Johnson 10:26

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 10:26

After, after I, I had been saved. And she wrote in here the date that I accepted Christ, which was August 12th, 1975.

Vona Johnson 10:34

Cool.

Kevin Berwald 10:34

And there's actually a, there's a perfect attendance sticker right there, too.

Vona Johnson 10:37

All right. Good time.

Kevin Berwald 10:38

And just so you know, I'm, I'm 59 years old now, so. It was a long distance between, you know, 1975 and, and now, you know, uh, basically 50 years later. Um, but the, you know, the, a amazing thing about this, uh, memorial that my mother gave me is that shortly, I mean, right after this happened, my parents were divorced.

Vona Johnson 11:02

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 11:03

And it was so traumatic on my own personal life that I almost lost. My entire memory of anything that happened before I was 10 years old, still can't recall it, can look at pictures and and just not remember it.

Vona Johnson 11:14

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 11:14

And, um, and so I was a stinker, stinker, stinker, stinker for a very long time. And, um, and, and in everything I touched worldly. Every sports team I was on, I became the captain. Uh, I, I competed in college athletics. I, I did really well. Every business I've ever been in, I become the manager or the leader. Mm-hmm. Uh, one way or another, all the way through my whole life, I had, I was earning a lot of money and was single until I met my wife at 35 years old. And when you have access and, uh, and all that bad stuff going on, I, I was. I did a lot of stupid things and, and I'm just telling I'm so happy that through that whole process. My mother's passed on now. Uh, I know that my mom was, my mother was praying for me daily. I have her Bible, uh, up over on, uh, another part of my office over here that's open. There's not a page that's not completely covered with writing and her notes and her highlights and, uh, and the stuff in there about praying for me and my brother. Uh, and it's proof that, you know, our, that, uh, our prayers don't disappear and sometimes our prayers aren't answered until after. Deaths,

Vona Johnson 12:29

right?

Kevin Berwald 12:29

But they're still actives, the prayers don't go away. They don't stop. And, um, and I'm just, you know, really, really blessed that I went through all that stuff, all the money, all the awards, all the stuff. And then when it came to an end, it came to an end abruptly. And, and God used that whole situation to take me from that point of really, you know, walking through the desert failure. And bringing me back up, putting me on secure footing and getting me to where I am today. Yeah. Um, so all those experiences, all those things, although they were, you know, weren't necessarily good things that I went through, it sure taught me that, like you said, there was no fulfillment, um, in them. Eventually, no matter how much more you want it or how much more you move forward, there is nothing like the fulfillment we get, uh, when God takes over and, uh, controls where we're going next.

Vona Johnson 13:23

Well, and, and what's coming up. Thanks for sharing that. What's coming up for me is, you know, there's, there's this, I think, this idea that when you become a Christian, Christian, we just flip the switch and now we're there, and it's not like that at all. I mean, we spend the rest of our lives improving and getting to know Jesus even closer and better, and doing all the things. And the, the reality is we don't know what we don't know. So when we, you know, we hit some of those first milestones as a new Christian or even even a, an older Christian, if we haven't really gotten to the point where we've had to surrender, we maybe haven't surrendered. And we don't know. It's not that we aren't gonna, that we're not saved, it's that we haven't. We aren't living the best life that we can, you know, and it's not the best life in the world standards, but yeah. Um, yeah, it's, there's just, there's always another level, um, that, of, of understanding, of, of faith, of trust, and that to be, it's the trust.

Kevin Berwald 14:32

Right? And you talk about the challenges that you've had. The challenges that I had in life when I was trying to handle'em on my own, I just kept stumbling and stumbling. But when you finally do get to the point. You know, I, I've heard the the saying, which is absolutely untrue, that God will never give you more than you can handle. That's absolutely untrue. Um, God will take you to the point where you can't handle it, so you have to turn to him.

Vona Johnson 14:56

Right?

Kevin Berwald 14:56

And that's because he loves us and he's our father. And he gets us to that point where we, we either, we have to make that decision, uh, or either turn to him and give it up and say, you know, this mess I've created, obviously I had control of it all. So, you know, thanks for getting me through it, but. You know, can you take it from here? Yeah. And once that happens, everything changes. But those challenges that we have, even when we are Christians, I mean that we we're always tested, we always have challenges. We've all gotta always have to deal with stuff in this world. But when God gets us through it and we look backwards and we recognize the amazing things that he did to place things in perspective to occur in a way you never thought they would ever occur, to turn out for good. Gives me personally, so much faith, uh, that God will not only what, you know, the, the song recently we've been singing is, I don't know where what you're doing, but I know what you've done. And I can look back over my life at almost sixty years of age and see all these times where God has done things in ways that I never would've thought. To accomplish certain things and put me in the right position, that just gives me more and more faith that he'll continue to do it, continue to deliver. Mm-hmm. So sometimes we've just gotta go through this stuff and we've gotta be tested, we've gotta be challenged, um, and even in retirement, right? Wherever we're at, um, so that we will have more faith and we'll be able to be used by God, uh, even more.

Vona Johnson 16:21

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, my, the song that, uh, runs through my mind daily is even if. I know, I know you can. I know that you can do anything, but even if you don't

Kevin Berwald 16:32

mm-hmm.

Vona Johnson 16:33

I'll still, I will still love you. Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 16:35

Yeah. I, I mean, just to kind of put this in perspective, I only told a few people this story, but. Uh, it was just in the last couple of weeks where, uh, I woke up in the middle of the night and you could, you could say any way you wanna look. You could say, God woke me up and God told me to do this. Or you could just say, it just happened. So whatever side of the coin you wanna take, I, I woke up and uh, and I walked out on my couch and I sat down. I, I look, and right now I'm looking over the water. I live on an island on the edge of Lake Erie and the Detroit River called Gross Ill, it's French for Big Island, and Canada's right across the way. There's about 1.8 miles of water between. Uh, me and Canada and at night there's some lights along the shoreline and, and, and he just began to think about, as I woke up, I sat down on the couch. I kinda looked around the, the, the house at night and you could see little lights and little machines and things, and realized how close they were. And then I looked across the river and I saw these lights and, and I, then I went from there. I looked up and I saw the stars in the sky, and for some reason I was prompted where. Um, you know, whether it was God or whether it was just me thinking it through either way, he said, he just asked the question. He goes, what's the name of the galaxy that we're in? I don't know why I would think of that, but actually I couldn't think of the time, but it's the Milky Way. So I pulled it up on my phone and I looked at the Milky Way and uh, uh, and then I looked at an image of the Milky Way. I don't know if anybody's ever done that before. Uh, but in this picture, as I started to zoom in on and look at it, there's a little circle down in the corner that says You're here. Okay, so I went from a small point to a big perspective and oftentimes we think about our own creation and God creating the world. To your point of saying that, um, you know, God can handle anything right, is, is that I was sitting contemplating looking at this beautiful picture of the Milky Way galaxy and that the little tiny earth that you can't even see where we're at. God said, you realize that I spoke all of this into existence. I spoke it, I sat it there. He said, look at all those stars, and not a single one of them is running into each other

Vona Johnson 18:40

crazy.

Kevin Berwald 18:41

I know them all by name and I know you.

Vona Johnson 18:46

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Berwald 18:48

And like you said, the words you said is, and he goes, I got this.

Vona Johnson 18:52

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 18:53

Isn't that amazing that just to think that God has control that kind of control, yet he has enough to think about us and say that he knows, although I don't have as many hairs as I used to, he knows the hairs on my head. Right?

Vona Johnson 19:06

Right.

Kevin Berwald 19:06

He knows, he and he, and he says that he, he knows my heart. He knows the intentions of my heart and he sifts my heart. Why would the God of the universe with that kind of power, that can speak that into existence, care about you and me individually when, when Jesus said that? Even one soul is worth more than the entire wealth of the earth and everything in it.

Vona Johnson 19:28

Yeah. It makes me sad though sometimes when people take that perspective that you just talked about and, and decide. Well, I can't pray about that because certainly God doesn't have time to worry about that problem I'm having at the office or that

Kevin Berwald 19:43

Yeah.

Vona Johnson 19:44

Problem. You know, that challenging relationship I'm having with my child or whatever is, I don't wanna bother him with that. Yeah. Yeah. And that just breaks my heart because he wants to be bothered with all of that because he, he wants us to ask. Right.

Kevin Berwald 19:58

Yeah. He, it, you, you're so right and so many people that, uh, so, you know, I'm on on prayer team at church as well as being an elder at my church. And, um, and we're praying for people a lot how often people are afraid to even pray and approach God and don't realize that that's how much God loves us, so much so that we can't even comprehend the volume, the vastness of his love and how big it is. It's so big. It's bigger than. The Milky Way galaxy. His love for us is bigger. You can't comprehend how big it is. And it's, it's even funnier inside the book. My mom, it's not funny. My mom wrote in here, um, Revelation 3:20 was the verse. She put in this little red bible. And if you know, Revelation 3:20, it's where God says, I stand at the door and knock. If you open the door, I'll come in and eat with you and spend time with you.

Vona Johnson 20:50

Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 20:52

What that mean? God wants to have a relationship with us. And he gives it. But the, but he wants it badly. I mean, of all the things he can't have unless we decide to praise and worship and give ourselves to him, those are only things he can't have unless we give it to him and he gives us free will.

Vona Johnson 21:07

I was gonna say, he gives this choice to say, no thanks. I'll, I'll, I'll just keep doing this on my own. Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 21:14

Yeah.

Vona Johnson 21:15

And, and that's, that's where, um, it's. It's hard and honestly, that's why this podcast exists because it, there are people out there that, that are sitting in the pews every Sunday. They're checking all the boxes, but they don't really know him and they don't really trust that he's got. He, he's taken care of the issues. And so you, you hit on when we first started about, you know, all the things that are going on in the world and, um, this week I've been really paying attention. I don't watch the news. Mm-hmm. But you don't really have to,'cause people will tell you what's going on, right? Mm-hmm. You can, we can live without all the commentaries and everything like that. I, I don't know, always trust what people are saying at that level, but, um. I am still on LinkedIn. I, I gave up other social media for Lent this year. Good for you. Yeah. And, and it's feeling really good, but I'm, I stayed on LinkedIn because there are a lot of people who out out there who, um, so many of my friends are Christians and are, are really speaking truth out there and I, I just really love that. Mm-hmm.

Kevin Berwald 22:26

Mm-hmm.

Vona Johnson 22:26

Well, one of the guys that I follow. Is in Israel. Actually, I think he's home. We're on his way home right now, but he is leading a group in Israel this week.

Kevin Berwald 22:37

Oh boy.

Vona Johnson 22:38

Yeah, and

Kevin Berwald 22:39

I bet he's not, I bet he's not leading him. I bet you they're,

Vona Johnson 22:41

well,

Kevin Berwald 22:42

they're cooped up somewhere,

Vona Johnson 22:43

actually, so I've been following him and yeah, so I am signed up to go in September. So I've been really interested in his daily posts and what they're doing and stuff. And so Saturday morning, um, and I hadn't thought about it, you know, it's like I've been following him or whatever, but I hadn't thought about it until I saw his post Saturday morning. He was like, we're okay. All 40, 40, 44 of us are accounted for. We're, we're in a, you know, we're in a safe place. Yeah, we have to go down to the bunker every once in a while, but, you know, we're good. And so I've, yeah. Gone back and read all of his posts. Cool. And I just love that he's, he's talking about what a blessing it is to be there and to see. The people who live there have to go through day in and day out. I mean, this is nothing new to them.

Kevin Berwald 23:32

Yeah.

Vona Johnson 23:32

And, and how they're at peace and they're, they're, they trust that it'll be fine. So, so to, to follow up with that. Um mm-hmm. They had to go across like, basically it's really cool. They like had to go across the desert to get to Egypt. So they could catch a plane in Cairo, I believe, to London. And you know, they're on their way home.

Kevin Berwald 23:55

Wow.

Vona Johnson 23:56

They're gonna be fine. But he talked about how we're trying not to murmur because we don't want this to turn into a 40 year trip, all of that. He's got a great perspective. Yeah. But yeah, that's

Kevin Berwald 24:08

funny.

Vona Johnson 24:09

But, um,

Kevin Berwald 24:10

to go visit their brother that they left behind to go visit Joshua,

Vona Johnson 24:14

I had. People tell me, you know, they're like, you know, I mean, my husband won't, isn't gonna go. And, and it's kind of like, I, I know it's because, you know, I mean, you don't like long flights and blah, you know, all the reasons. But I know part of it is that he doesn't wanna go to a country that you don't know. And it's like, yeah, but this is where Jesus walked, come on. You know? Mm-hmm. But I've had people say, you know, I, I could never do that. I could never do that. And I'm like. I, I feel like I'm so excited to be able to be there and to, to see and to learn, um, just from that different perspective. And, um,

Kevin Berwald 24:57

yeah, we visited that. I get you. We visited Ephesus over the summer.

Vona Johnson 25:01

Did you?

Kevin Berwald 25:02

We went to Turkey, yeah. And, uh, uh, yeah, it's um. It brought some things to life. I mean, you could feel, you could feel, you know, some things you just couldn't get from the other perspective. So I've never been to, uh, Israel or Jerusalem, but I, I would love to. I hope I get to one day.

Vona Johnson 25:18

Yeah. Well, and I hope I get to too, the, our tour guide has, he actually grew up there and has family there, and he has, he has assured us that, and that he's done, this will be his 29th trip, and he has assured us out of all of those, he's only had to cancel one because it wasn't safe and you know. Mm-hmm. He's like, it's too soon to call. Make that call right now. We believe this will be, yeah. You know, well passed, and who knows, maybe it'll even be safer after, after this. Who knows? I don't know.

Kevin Berwald 25:45

I got a feeling it will be, yeah. I got a feeling it will be. Yeah.

Vona Johnson 25:49

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 25:50

And, and you know, this is just a story of Haman and Mordecai all over again, right.

Vona Johnson 25:57

Honestly, I don't, I don't know that I understand all of what's happening there, but I am, I'm, mm-hmm. I'm hoping to get a better per I, I don't know who to believe. That's, you know, it's like there's just so many people and I feel like that's where we are in our world, right? There's so many people with opinions about what's happening that I don't even know who to listen to, because I don't know if, if it's just their truth or if it's really what happens. Um, so I, yeah.

Kevin Berwald 26:27

Yeah. I think the most exciting thing, I don't, I don't know if you've studied this at all, but, or heard about it, but you know, the fastest growing church in the world is in Iran. There are more Christians, um, in Iran. Growth wise than any other place in the world. And it's been that way for several years.

Vona Johnson 26:46

I did not know that. I thought you were gonna say the, um, Islam, you know, the, the Muslim, because that's, well that is a Muslim. That's really growing too.

Kevin Berwald 26:55

No, that is a Muslim war. But from a Christianity standpoint, there are more Christians growth rate population-wise in Iran than anywhere else in the world. And if you've never seen Sheep Among Wolves, which is a documentary that discusses it. It is well worth watching. Uh, tell

Vona Johnson 27:10

me, tell me the name of it again.

Kevin Berwald 27:12

Uh, sheep Among Wolves. Uh, it actually, they, they have some underground, uh, uh, pastors and leaders in Iran that are actually talking about some of the things that are happening. And what's most amazing is how, you know, the Holy Spirit's working in that part of the world. So, God's been preparing Iran for this. And I can't wait to see.'cause what,'cause what I do know is, is I know God's gonna do something amazing with it. I don't know what it is exactly, but I have complete faith. I mean, I, I talk, we, we talk about all the things that went on in our life, how God's carried us through, how he works these miracles. You get more and more faith and I, and I just know that. You know, that's what's gonna happen. It's gonna be something cool, whatever it is.

Vona Johnson 27:52

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 27:52

God will, God will use things like this for his purpose. And I know that there are more Christians in Iran, um, that are, uh, um, accepting Christianity every day than anywhere else in the world.

Vona Johnson 28:03

I did not know that and mm-hmm. I'm excited to hear that that's,

Kevin Berwald 28:06

yeah. Underground churches are amazing. It's just that, uh, anyway. Yeah. Didn't need go too far off track.

Vona Johnson 28:12

No, I don't know that we didn't have a track to be on other than Yeah. We are here, um, to talk to Christians who are thinking about retirement and

Kevin Berwald 28:22

mm-hmm.

Vona Johnson 28:23

I think all of the things that we've talked about so far are important for those of us at this age of life.

Kevin Berwald 28:29

Mm-hmm.

Vona Johnson 28:30

To realize. That our life isn't over as long as we have breath. We have a purpose here. Right? And, and a huge part of our purpose is the legacy we leave, not in the money in the bank, but the legacy of the people, our children, our neighbors, the people that God brings into our lives and how we can speak truth into them. And, and our world is twisted God's truth. And our job is absolutely our God job is to have the courage to say. That's not exactly what he said. Let's, let's go check with, with his word and see if that's, you know, let's, let's check on that.

Kevin Berwald 29:08

Boy, are you spot on with that? I mean, isn't that the first documented spot in the Bible? You know, before we got to chapter three where Satan said, did God really say. Yeah. And he's been saying that ever since the same playbook. Yeah. Did God really say that? Did God really mean that thoroughly? You won't die if you eat from that fruit of the tree.

Vona Johnson 29:32

Right.

Kevin Berwald 29:32

Right. Uh, and and, and that is the same way that Satan has been working ever since.

Vona Johnson 29:38

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 29:38

And, and we're dealing with it every day. And so it's so hard, you know, as we talked about in the beginning, we can't know God's will. We can't decipher the Bible. We can't make heads or tails of it, uh, or even the things that we might be talking about spiritually. Until you're born again, until you are changed from the inside out and you accept Jesus Christ into your heart, not just know who he is. I mean, even, even Satan believes and knows who the bi who. Who God is, and he actually knows the Bible better than us. And we'll quote scripture, he did it to Jesus, although he twisted it. He will, he will quote and use scripture against us and can be very deceiving. But until you have the Holy Spirit, uh, uh, implanted in your heart, uh, which is promised by God to do so as a down payment for our future, you won't make heads or tails of it. And, uh, you may not even be protected from a lot of it. So. Yeah, you're dead on. Spot on.

Vona Johnson 30:34

Beautifully stated. Yeah. So again, we could talk for a long time. Mm-hmm. Um,

Kevin Berwald 30:43

well, first things are first, right,

Vona Johnson 30:44

right, right. Mm-hmm. So you work with people that are at retirement age. And I mean, that's, that's your vocation. A vocation. I'm not sure which it is.

Kevin Berwald 30:57

Yeah. Well, um, at, at this point stage in my life, I, I, I wear a couple hats. One, uh, my partner John and I own a consulting firm, which is called Catalyst for Growth. It's catalyst, the number four growth.org. And we mostly work with financial advisors and insurance guys and financial institutions around the United States. And, uh, what we do now is we, we try to give back to these people. What we've experienced and what we've learned and the successes we've had to get us where, so we're giving back today, uh, to individuals helping'em grow their business. I also run a retail practice, so I am a certified financial planner and I have, um, individuals that I, uh, work with to help them get to retirement or help them retire. It's very fulfilling. Uh, to, to help people, uh, get on the right, get on the right track. Um, and in, in doing that, one of the ways that we connected initially is, uh, with the combination of those two things is that, uh, we create tools that help people, uh, help financial advisors, uh, really connect and cross the chasm, uh, of, uh, introductions and getting to know their ideal, uh, prospects and clients. How do you connect the dots so they make the right moves? And we, we really think more as opposed to, we're not really, we're not product guys or solution guys. We usually start everything out the way we train and teach, which is kind of how we're, it goes along with what we're talking about now is we try to help people understand or train them to help people understand what the vision of their retirement really looks like. See, people will come to us all the time, and I won't be too businessy very long, but they'll transition this over to what, what, you know, might be meaningful to some people. People will come to us and they'll say, Hey, I think I wanna retire. Do you think I can? My answer is, of course you can. But the first question we gotta figure out is, what does retirement actually look like for you? Until you can see it and kind of grasp the vision of who you're gonna spend your time with, what things you wanna do, you know, the legacy that you wanna leave, um, things of that nature. Until you kind of map it out and figure it out, then it's really hard to create a plan to give you the liberty to pursue something you haven't figured out yet. So John and I, this is a kind of a fun story. We were at a conference, my partner John and I were at a conference several years ago now. Boy, time flies. And this individual came up. We, we had done a presentation on something on stage and someone came up afterwards from the crowd and said, you know, we've got, I've got an issue right now. This guy's actually a pastor, he used in the northwest part of the country. And, and he said, I'm trying to figure out how I can create a process that can help people envision or see what their retirement's gonna look like. And so. W right there. I, I thought, boy, that seems very, that's interesting. So it's funny how God works, but he put in me the, the idea that I gotta go to work on this right now. I literally, that evening at dinner penciled out. Um, this book right here, it's called, um, well, mission Retirement. There you go. Yeah. And you can find it on Amazon if you wanna look it up. But it's a non-financial book about retirement that helps people, um, create or understand a more purposeful and fulfilling. Meaning in retirement, there's nothing financial in it. There's no products in it. In fact, we, we call it mission retirement as 10 missions in the book. Um, and, uh, you know, the, the last one is passing on a personal legacy. Uh, is, is kinda what we're talking about. The first one is writing a, a, a, um, uh, a mission, a retirement statement, like a business statement. Like, uh, you know, some people will create a, um, a mission statement in their business. We suggest you make a mission statement in your, before you retire, that basically isolates all the things that are most important and critical to you moving forward. For, for an example, um, it's, it's my opinion that. Everything we should focus on when we get to the, you know, well, anytime in our life, in my opinion, we should be thinking more about the things that have e eternal consequences. And God tells me, yeah, you know, is it, is it getting to heaven? Is that the eternal consequence? Or is it being in the new heaven and the new earth and a resurrected body with Christ for eternity? Is that really where we're going? And if and if we think about that, if we study what heaven, an eternity with God looks like. Then our perspective changes as opposed to just the legacy. I'm gonna leave to my grandkids, right? Mm-hmm. But God says we need to think about that. Well, I'm sorry. I mean, that's my perspective, that we need to think about where we're gonna be, but we have to live and walk in the moment. And obey God daily. Right? He says, you don't have to think about tomorrow, today has its own enough worries of its own. Right? So we, we walk in today in the faith of that God's got it all in control with the, the thought process that you know, where we're gonna be for eternity. So you, you were talking about, you know, planting seeds and the people that we're around. What things can we do to help, you know, God propel or move his kingdom forward? What seeds can we plant that the Holy Spirit can take over and make grow? And so this is one of those books that, this is one of those things we plant seeds with because there is some stuff in here. For example, there is a Bible and a link After every chapter, we put resources in one of them. Under the spiritual wellbeing chapter, there's a spot for a Bible, right, where you can get online and look for Bible. So the the first one is mission retirement statement. Then we have people think about friends and family, like who should you be associating with? You know, if, if, if you think it from a spiritual standpoint, you wanna think about, if you wanna have a truly great retirement, you wanna think about who you're spending your life with and your time with. And you know, and obviously, you know, we have a life group that we've been with for over 20 years, you know, and there's 15, 16 different people in it. And we do bible studies with, we spend time with, uh, we do life with. Um, and that's an important thing. Um, so we think about that, hobbies and interests, health and wellness, intellectual activities to keep your brain sharp, leisure and sports. Um, exploring new cultures, which is travel, like you were talking about, going to, um, uh, Israel, you know, what would you do there to immerse yourself in the culture, thinking things like that, spiritual health, stewardship, and then, um, passing on a, a meaningful legacy.

Vona Johnson 37:24

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 37:25

I think one of the exciting things about legacies is the stories I've seen recently where people are recording. Had a, a friend of mine record, uh, his grandmother who had been diagnosed with an illness and she knew she didn't have a long time. They spent a day together and he was recording, just asking questions about her past and stuff. He shared it with me. It's just magical.

Vona Johnson 37:45

I bet,

Kevin Berwald 37:46

you know, uh, and, and imagine, and every one of these things we're talking about how you can think about ways to plant seeds that the Holy Spirit can take over and make grow.

Vona Johnson 37:56

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 37:56

Right. And represent ourselves. We don't have to stand on a street corner every day and yell with a megaphone, you know, that, you know, you're something, you know, whatever you, whatever your message is. Um, we just need to obey what God wants us to do as we move forward through life and know that he's got it. But, so that's, that's the, our book, mission Retirement, that we, we, we, we give to, um, you know, if someone's a financial advisor, insurance person, we'll white label the book and make it look like it's theirs, help'em write the forward. Yeah, so then they can, they, they run seminars and do other things to, um, you know, uh, if they're doing their financial seminars, they'll use this as part of it to change the whole, uh, construct of how they're perceived and what their meaning is that it's not about being smart about social security and things of that nature. But let me figure out what your ideal. Retirement looks like, and you know, what's important to you, and then we'll back into it. So there's lots of opportunity to, you know, introduce, share the gospel and make people think about things that maybe they weren't thinking about before.

Vona Johnson 38:57

I love that. I think that's, that's really great because

Kevin Berwald 39:00

yeah, thank you.

Vona Johnson 39:00

What, what I've learned is that there people, it's a scary prospect. And I think about even myself, um, you know, I was, I've worked towards retirement for 30 years, you know, and I had that day marked when I was gonna be eligible to take early retirement. And the closer it got, you know, I was excited, excited, excited. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, wait a minute. You know, will I have enough money? What am I gonna do? I mean, I started just, and I tell this story about how I was, I would talk to anybody that would listen, you know, and kind of go through the pros and cons and everything. And one day my cousin, we were driving down the highway and she looked at me and she said, are you gonna starve to death? And it was like, of course not. Of course not. She's like, then do it. Go. Go where he is leading. You know, just

Kevin Berwald 39:51

That's right.

Vona Johnson 39:52

Go. And that changed. I mean, that one question just changed it all for me. And does it look like, I thought it was gonna look. No, it's so much better.

Kevin Berwald 40:03

Amen. Exactly. If it's God's will. He will create all, you know, there's great God stories, right? That we all have and we share'em. It gives people faith, but all of us just look back and see. I would've never designed it this way. I would've never guessed

Vona Johnson 40:20

right,

Kevin Berwald 40:21

ever. In fact, anyone who knows me prior to 35 years of age or 40 years of age would never ever guess that you and I would be having this conversation right now. But the things that, that, that God does. We just give it to him. Even sometimes we don't give it to him and he drags us along. What kind of forces is there?'cause he wants us to do something. You know, there there is Jonah stories where, you know, um, and, and, and, uh, and we get where we're gonna go. Uh, but when we look back, it's just amazing. He's got it. He created the milky way. He created us. He didn't do it haphazardly. He did it'cause he loves us and he is got a plan. Yeah. And he just carries it through. So, you know, that's why, that's why the Bible says, you know, don't be anxious for anything, but you know, with, with prayer and petition and thanksgiving.

Vona Johnson 41:10

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 41:10

Make all your requests known to God and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Vona Johnson 41:22

Amen.

Kevin Berwald 41:22

It's all about, it's always, always has been, always will be about God's will.

Vona Johnson 41:30

Thank you. I, I love that, um, that scripture. Um, and I love sharing that on this show. One of the things that comes up for me though is I, I think sometimes people are intimidated because they think it's gotta be big. You know, they, they've gotta start a podcast. They need to, you know, become a, an author. They need all these things.

Kevin Berwald 41:53

Yeah.

Vona Johnson 41:53

And it can be so simple. Um. Yeah, it can be, you know, I have a friend who is my prayer warrior and she, I, I admire how she is praying for people all the time and reminding me that I need to be doing that too.

Kevin Berwald 42:08

Mm-hmm.

Vona Johnson 42:09

But, you know, sometimes it's like a big part of my life has become just. Being available to take care of my grandsons.

Kevin Berwald 42:16

Um, amen.

Vona Johnson 42:17

And, and I mean, there's nothing more important than making sure that they know Jesus and that they can stand up to all of the, the things in this world that are gonna try and pull them away from that.

Kevin Berwald 42:27

Mm-hmm. I, you're, so, I think the key word you just said there was available

Vona Johnson 42:32

right.

Kevin Berwald 42:33

We, we we're supposed to make ourselves available and listen

Vona Johnson 42:36

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 42:36

To what God is moving us towards and, and being an example. I mean, I, I can tell you that, that it's amazing. I mean, especially since I took on a role of, uh, after being called to an elder eldership in my church, I never realized how many people knew who I was. Right? Yeah. And when I say that from the standpoint is that people are always watching us,

Vona Johnson 42:57

right.

Kevin Berwald 42:57

And they see the example and they notice. That joy and peace, and they, and some people can't understand it and they get angry about it and they, and they don't believe it. And they'll ask us questions and they'll say, how can you believe that? And they don't have the ability to understand it happens. It, it's not big stuff. Right. We don't have to preach, we don't have to be on stage. I mean, I've done that stuff. And I, and I've, and I've got books. We're doing podcasts, but that's because we have gifts that we're, we're given to do that. Right. But somebody's gift might just be the gifts of help,

Vona Johnson 43:30

right?

Kevin Berwald 43:30

The gifts of just listening to someone and caring for someone and loving on someone, and they don't even have to say anything.

Vona Johnson 43:36

Right.

Kevin Berwald 43:37

Just being an example so that someone sees that you're doing something a certain way, um, and, and making certain things happen. God put in place for us to handle anyway, so you're so right about that,

Vona Johnson 43:50

you know, years ago, um, you know, and it's funny'cause when I look back at myself 30 years ago, I was, I was a Christian. Yeah. But I, I mean, my faith wasn't anything like it is today, but it was still there. And I have to remind myself not to beat myself up because I wasn't there yet. Now I'm not gonna be there until I go home to, to heaven. But

Kevin Berwald 44:11

yeah,

Vona Johnson 44:11

I remember a friend of mine one day looking at me and saying. There's something about you and I want that, and I know exactly what she was talking about, is that peace that just comes from knowing him.

Kevin Berwald 44:24

Yeah. And people. I I, I had the same thing, man. I'm telling you. I, I, I was saved at an early age. I had the Bible to prove it, that my mom wrote in.

Vona Johnson 44:32

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 44:32

Um, I remember it was at Bible camp and, uh, and I went off the rails for a very, very long time. But you know what, God, uh. Maybe I just figured out, however people wanna think about this, but someone made me understand one time as I was studying or God made me understand, or the Holy Spirit enlightened me, whatever it is, and I was studying, I was reading, and it came to me. He said, you know, God created time for you and up for us so that we could observe seasons and things that God wants us to do. Um. In God. God is not subject to the sun and the moon and the earth circling the sun, right? He has no, he, in other words, we're subject to time. We can only think about today and what happened in the past, and we can guess what's gonna happen in the future. But from God's perspective, he sees the entire past and the entire future and all of it at this exact same time.

Vona Johnson 45:26

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 45:26

And you know, when he looks at us, how he looks at us from the time that we were born again and we accepted him, he sees us how we're gonna be when we're in heaven.

Vona Johnson 45:35

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 45:35

He sees us what we're gonna look like when we have a resurrected body and we're in the new heaven and the new Earth when everything's perfect. That's what he sees when he looks at us. He doesn't look at our sin. He doesn't look at our faults and our failures. He sees that, and because he sees that through that filter, he can love us and do so much more for us and care for us and make sure, and make sure that we get through to where he wants us to be. Because that's what he loves. That's what, that's his desire, is us with him, not the way we look today.

Vona Johnson 46:08

And, and that's really an important point. I, one of, part of my story is, uh, a breast cancer survivor, oh, five years ago. And I re my prayer warrior, um, we were talking one day as I'm approaching, you know, just all of the things and not really sure what was gonna happen or whatever. I mean, it was early on in the process and she looked at me and she said, I know. God is going to heal you. I just don't know if it's gonna be this side of heaven or not. That brought me so much peace and yeah, you know, our family right now, um, my niece just lost her significant other, and

Kevin Berwald 46:48

yeah,

Vona Johnson 46:48

I didn't know in my, you know, I didn't have the opportunity to, to share my thoughts with him, but I kept checking in and he knows, right? He knows, right? And she said, mm-hmm. Yes, yes, he knows. And, um, you know, I shared that with him. He, he promised healing, but it didn't necessarily mean it's gonna be this side of heaven. And

Kevin Berwald 47:06

That's right.

Vona Johnson 47:06

Um, I just take, take comfort in knowing that he's okay now. Um,

Kevin Berwald 47:14

that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. He's where he, he, he won, you know, if he's on the other side, that's where we wanna be.

Vona Johnson 47:20

Right.

Kevin Berwald 47:21

That's the goal. Right? That's the perspective as we go through.

Vona Johnson 47:24

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 47:24

Our courageous retirements as they are, is, I think it's being courageous enough. Um, to let God do his thing and realize it's not about us doesn't, that, that's where the courage comes from sometimes is letting go.

Vona Johnson 47:38

Yeah.

Kevin Berwald 47:38

Uh, and listening to God and doing his will rather than our own. Right.

Vona Johnson 47:42

Right. You know, it's funny because when I created the trailer for this podcast. I, you know, did a bunch of clips, video clips and everything like that. And when I said the word courageous retirement, I showed a picture of someone reading from the Bible, and I had my reviewers say, oh no, you need to have somebody skydiving. And I'm like, no, that's not where the courage is. The courage is living and following the Bible. That's right because that's a lot of people that will tell us that the Bible's outdated and that it's, it hasn't caught up with the world today, and that is not what God said.

Kevin Berwald 48:21

Well, that means they haven't read the Bible,

Vona Johnson 48:23

right? Yeah. Anyway, we could go on all day. Um, but we probably should keep this at a realistic timeframe. Yeah. So I, time goes by when you're

Kevin Berwald 48:33

having fun,

Vona Johnson 48:34

right? I. I really, really, um, am loving this conversation and I know that there are listeners that are going to as well, if they wanna talk to you, Kevin, if they wanna reach out and learn more about your book or what you're doing, how can they get a hold of you?

Kevin Berwald 48:49

I think that if you, if you'd like to check out the book, it's on Amazon.

Vona Johnson 48:52

Okay.

Kevin Berwald 48:52

Um, if you type my name into Amazon, you'll see that and a couple other books come up. But mission retirement's right there. Okay. Uh, and there's an author, author page there. Uh, you can also find me on LinkedIn, um, and some social media. Uh, but if you'd like to send me a message, you can, it's Kevin at Catalyst, the number four growth.org or Kevin at Catalyst, the number four growth.org. And you can send me an email. I'd be happy to chat with you.

Vona Johnson 49:25

All right, wonderful. Well, this has been just so much fun. Is there any last thought that you wanna make sure we talk about that we haven't touched on today?

Kevin Berwald 49:36

No, I, I would always,'cause I always do circle around to the thing that's most important. The most important thing someone will be, will listen to this, uh, that's my prayer. Listen or hear this. And, and their spirit will be unnerved.

Vona Johnson 49:51

Yeah, it

Kevin Berwald 49:51

might even be angry. It doesn't matter. And later on you might want to come back to it. But if that's you, the first thing that we all need to do is get right with Christ and realize that you know, if he's not your personal savior, if you're not born again, it's hard to understand all this stuff and really do God's will. Um, and that's the most important thing. So I would just suggest that if you're not, or you're even concerned, you know, God doesn't require special language. He doesn't require you to get right. He doesn't require anything. He, he knows who you are before you were created, knows everything you've ever done and everything you're ever gonna do from this point forward. And he's already given you the ability to be forgiven and all you gotta do is talk to him. He'll respond back in his own special way. It probably won't be verbal, but he'll respond back and communicate with you and you just let him know that what little bit, you know, with the little bit of faith you have, uh, that you want to have a relationship with him and just go from there and see what happens. That's the most important thing.

Vona Johnson 50:55

Amen. Thank you. I couldn't agree more. So this has just been such a joy. Kevin, I wanna thank you so much for your time and I, um, am just gonna say to the listeners, uh, thanks for stopping by today. Thanks for listening in on our little conversation here. And I just pray that you'll engage your faith, um, and, and just always. Live your more. Lean into where the Holy Spirit's guiding you because he, he won't lead you astray. Come back in two weeks. We'll see you then.