54. Cancer Off Center Stage: Finding Faith, Hope, and Peace After Diagnosis

What do you do when you hear the words, "You have cancer"?

In this episode of Courageous Retirement, Vona Johnson sits down with author, speaker, and coach Dana Lyons in an intimate conversation about the emotional and spiritual journey that begins with a cancer diagnosis. Drawing from their own experiences as cancer survivors, Vona and Dana share honest reflections on fear, uncertainty, faith, and finding hope when life takes an unexpected turn.

Although several years separated their diagnoses, they walked alongside one another through their respective cancer journeys, offering encouragement, understanding, and faith-filled support. Their friendship underscores one of the episode's most important messages: when facing life's greatest challenges, finding your people matters.

Together, they explore the waiting between diagnosis and treatment, the importance of choosing trusted voices, and why experiencing fear or doubt does not mean your faith has failed. Dana also shares powerful insights from her book, You Have Cancer, Now What?, including the importance of praying for God's mercy and refusing to allow cancer to become more central than God.

Whether you are facing cancer, supporting someone who is, or navigating another unexpected life challenge, this conversation offers practical wisdom, biblical encouragement, and a powerful reminder that hope is not found in having guarantees—it's found in the One who walks with us through every season.

In this episode, you'll discover:

• How to navigate the fear and uncertainty that follow a diagnosis
• Why waiting for answers is often one of the hardest parts
• The importance of finding trusted people to walk alongside you
• How to stop fear from spiraling out of control
• Why doubt and faith can coexist
• Two life-changing lessons from Dana's cancer journey
• How a diagnosis can reshape priorities and deepen purpose
• Where hope can be found, even when the future feels uncertain

Timestamps:
00:00 Hearing The Diagnosis
00:54 That Dreaded Phone Call
03:27 Waiting For The Plan
07:09 Different Cancer Journeys
10:17 Dana's Cervical Cancer Diagnosis
13:11 When Fear Takes Over
17:05 Faith and Doubt Can Coexist
20:29 Praying for God's Mercy
23:26 Keeping Cancer Off Center Stage
24:54 How Diagnosis Changes Priorities
27:10 Living Without Guarantees
31:57 Gifts Found in the Journey
33:38 Hope, Community, and Moving Forward
37:33 Final Reflections

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Transcript

Vona Johnson 0:00

If you're listening to this, you've heard the words or you know someone who have heard the word you have cancer. There are so many things that our minds go through when that happens, when we hear those words. Today I have a special guest who has written a book about not the process, not the scientific medical background of that whole diagnosis, but the things to think about, the people that we can rely on as we walk this journey. Do you fear what lies beyond retirement? What if it's a gateway to a life filled with purpose, meaning, and adventure rather than an end? Discover peace and fulfillment as you boldly enter this new chapter in Courageous Retirement, a Christian podcast. I'm your host, author, and coach, Vona Johnson. Let's get started. With me today I have Dana Lyons. Dana, welcome. I'm so excited- Thanks to have you here.

Dana Lyons 0:51

Oh, thank you for asking.

Speaker 0:52

Yeah. Yeah. I am just, um... We've, we've known each other for a long time.

Dana Lyons 0:58

Yeah.

Speaker 0:58

And, I don't think it's a coincidence that we've both walked this path. Um, and we both know what it's like to have that phone call.

Dana Lyons 1:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1:09

Yours was a little different. I thought it was interesting that the doctor that didn't even really tell you that much about it. But for me, my phone call was, uh, "Yeah, Doc asked me to call and set up an appointment for, uh, 11:00 this morning. If you could come and bring your husband, we would really appreciate that."

Dana Lyons 1:28

Oh.

Speaker 1:29

So you know, you know when you hear those words what it is.

Dana Lyons 1:31

You know, why do they do that, though? It's one of those, really can we not come up with a better way, like, "Hey, we want to at least tell you we found something and we want to talk to you about it." Not set up the... It's, like, such a silent, hidden, uh, dread. Yeah. Right? It's the dreading, the... And then so now you're left hanging, and it's like that's, to me, that's torturous.

Vona Johnson 1:54

Well, and I knew. I mean, the minute she said, "First of all, I want you to come in in, you know, two hours-

Dana Lyons 2:00

Yeah

Speaker 2:00

and to bring your husband," I knew what, that it was a cancer diagnosis. Um, and I, I always try to put myself in other people's shoes.

Dana Lyons 2:12

Sure.

Vona Johnson 2:13

And it's, it's occurred to me that, you know, our doctors have to do this all the time, right? Yeah. Maybe not all the time, especially in a small town like I live in, but enough that they know and care about the people that they're having to tell this to. And so, you know, the it has to be hard to do that as well.

Dana Lyons 2:35

Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2:37

I just, I, I remember that day, um- W- we were sitting there, and this man had been my doctor for 30-some years. Wow. No, 40-some. Almost 40 years. And my husband had never really met him.

Dana Lyons 2:55

Wow.

Speaker 2:55

So when I went in, he was just very direct and very... And he'd like, "And I know that you're gonna wanna stay here locally, and you're not gonna do that. You're going to Sioux Falls, where we have the best breast cancer center in the country." And, you know, and we walked out, and my husband was like, "Wow, he was... I, I don't know if I liked him." Totally. He was just so abrupt. And I said, "But he knew me, and he knew that he needed to be very direct or I would hem and haw," and you know. So yeah. Wow. We, we, you know, we give him credit. This isn't what the conversation is about so much as, You have cancer. Now what?

Dana Lyons 3:35

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:36

There are so many things that go through our minds. And I don't know about you, but those days between knowing that it's there and knowing what the, the plan is were almost the worst. Was, was it that way for you as well?

Dana Lyons 3:55

Um, yes. Here's, you know... Well, one, you were one of the few that actually was in my life that knew that I had cancer. I didn't, I didn't tell anybody really. It was like, as an introvert, that's too much energy going out for me. But-

Speaker 4:11

Okay

Dana Lyons 4:11

you know, between you and Marty, you're, you're my, you're my accountability partners. And knowing that two people who I trusted and were in my life in, in, uh, an intimate way, that we, we really were accountable to each other and shared life. Knowing you two actually were cancer survivors-

Speaker 4:30

Yeah

Dana Lyons 4:30

uh, was really reassuring to me, um, because I know faith is big for both of you. I knew that, um, you, you were just really special for me at the time. So one, thank you. Um, because I've heard those stories from both of you prior to me ever getting diagnosed. Yeah. So I knew I've heard some of that, you know, along the way. And, um, what I've come to learn with cancer, again, my, my grandmother died of cancer, but I can't say like many people died in my family of cancer. It wasn't like I was very, uh, knowledgeable. You know, I, like everybody else, what you know from the internet and from-

Speaker 5:10

Right

Dana Lyons 5:10

the education you've gotten. So for me, um- I, I learned in the process from being told to, uh, that you have cancer to w- what it, what stage it is and what, what are we gonna do next. That process across the board I think, it's gonna be, is my own opinion, is that we're all in the same boat or the same bus at that rate, at that, that moment because when they first say you have cancer, you don't know what, what the plan is and you don't- Right even most of the time know what level, what stage you're at. Yeah. So everybody's in the same, same spot in life in the process of is it stage one? Is it stage four? Do they catch it early or am I looking at my last days? You know, and I share my, my- Right thoughts. You don't know that, and that to me, um, is where I, I hope to give hope and help to people there. So I can't say it was the longest because there are people who have waited months. I think while I was even going through it, you and Marty both were like, "I can't believe how fast yours is going," because w- you guys had to wait some time. Marty in particular was sharing, you know, he had to wait s- a certain amount of time to get doctor appointments and readouts and, and mine happened really quick that for me, and I think this is part of why I didn't say something to people, is that I felt like every couple days there was something new.

Speaker 6:40

Yeah.

Dana Lyons 6:41

And it, it happened so fast.

Speaker 6:43

Actually mine did too. Um, in fact unlike me, I remember, um, thinking that when y- my mom and I were always really close.

Dana Lyons 6:56

Yeah.

Speaker 6:57

And I always shared everything that was going on in my life with her. And I didn't tell her that I had gotten called back in for a biopsy and, and all of tho- those things which w- was totally unlike me. She always knew everything that was going on and, but for me, um, it was weird because when I went in for the biopsy, and maybe we should clarify, you know, for those that are listening that don't know our stories, you had cervical cancer.

Dana Lyons 7:23

Cervical.

Speaker 7:24

Yes. Yeah. Mine was breast cancer so not, I mean, not the same but similar. Mm-hmm. It was so weird because when I went in and got the mammogram and then started that process, which did go fairly quickly, uh, people treated me differently.

Dana Lyons 7:44

How so?

Speaker 7:45

My, my doctor's nurse was like, "Oh, oh, when I got this and I had my mastectomy," and, you know. I mean, she just talked like it was a given that I had cancer. And when I went in for the biopsy here locally, I'll just never forget the young woman that was in the radiology department. She was literally stroking my hair and ta- calling me sweetie and just like, you know, it was just it was so weird.

Dana Lyons 8:11

Wow. Yeah. I don't get that.

Speaker 8:14

So but again, very small town, you know, whatever. Yeah. So when I went in that day, he was like, I was at stage zero. It was still in the ducts, so and he was like- Oh "Some people are gonna tell you this isn't even cancer, and they're wrong." Wow. Just because it's so early in the process, you know. But then it was weird, so that was like on a Thursday. They had me in Sioux Falls, which is three hours away, seeing four different specialists on Monday. That's how fast it went. Wow,

Dana Lyons 8:48

that was faster than mine. Yeah.

Speaker 8:50

What's so different about the world today, and I'm guessing this was for you too, is we all, we can all go online and look at our medical stuff. For sure. So I was, I was, I was online looking at what he didn't say, and reading the report, and then doing my research before I went. And I told my husband on the way in, I said, "I think they're gonna recommend, uh, a mastectomy, and we're gonna do that." And he was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa," you know, "Don't get ahead of yourself."

Dana Lyons 9:18

Yeah.

Speaker 9:18

I think the point that you make in the book is so important for everybody, and it's like everybody's journey is different

Dana Lyons 9:29

So different

Speaker 9:31

But- Mm-hmm the things that our mind are gonna go to, the things, you know, we're all gonna do those worst case scenarios. Mm-hmm. We're gonna think about, "Okay, God, if, if this is it..."

Dana Lyons 9:46

It just happens. You know, I, n- like mine, my doctor called to say, "Hey, it's Dr. So-and-so, and we found something, and I just want you to, you know, I've n- I, I am not concerned whatsoever. I think we'll take care of it very quickly." That's all I heard. "We'll take care of it very quickly. I want you to go see the gynecologist oncologist. The r- the scheduler's gonna call you, but I really am not concerned. We'll take care of it, you know, very quickly." I'm like, "Okay." I've had these phone calls before.

Speaker 10:12

Yeah.

Dana Lyons 10:13

Biopsy, da, da, da, da, da, you know. So it wasn't abnormal. And we, when, when I was in the doctor, I went to, I actually went to the doctor to talk about HRT because I was so, so they say I was getting close to menopause, but perimenopause was just like a storm. Yeah. And I just was like, okay, there's a lot of things out there now. You know, our generations would say, "No, you don't do that because it causes cancer." You know, all the things. Yeah. And I just went to my doctor, said, "Hey, educate me." That's why I went. I don't know what would've happened if I never went because cervical cancer, right, it's-

Speaker 10:46

Yeah

Dana Lyons 10:47

you know, I, I, I don't know. And so, um, I talked to my doctor about that. So when it came back, and I've had 12 abnormal paps in the past, so I was used to this. It's very routine. It's like, she's like- Mm "Yep, and you know the drill. It's gonna come back abnormal like it usually does, and you'll have your ultrasound," because I had very, very, um, tra- a couple of tr- really traumatic doctors, uh, uh, biopsies with doctors who really didn't do, give me really great pain management. Yeah. They were not the most gentle. And my doctor was like, "This should not hurt like you're saying." And I'm like, "I don't know what to tell you." So, um, sh- they, she would let me get an ultrasound, and if there was anything iffy, then I, uh, of course I would get the biopsy. So she's like, "You know the drill." I already had the ultrasound scheduled. It's like, "Yep, that's... I'll have that in April." "As long as you don't have cancer, you're a perfect candidate for HRT." And then I got that call. So- Yeah doctor calls and tells me that. Next day, the scheduler calls. Very sweet, and as we're talking, like she said the same word that the doctor said. I have no idea what that means, and it wasn't like it sounded anything like what a cancer word sounds like- Yeah the way they said it, and they said it so, you know, it just kind of went with everything else. Didn't sound any alarming to me. And so I said, "Not for nothing, but the doctor yesterday said that same word. What in the world does that... What does that word mean?" And she said it again. She goes, "Oh, that?" I said, "Yeah." She said, "That's cervical cancer." And it was one of those, like, you know when somebody gives you news that's... I'm not, I don't see her face. I don't... She said it like I was asking for yellow Jell-O instead of red. You know, it was like, "Oh, you want the red?" It was very much like, "Oh, it's cervical cancer." And I'm like, "Okay. Are, are you telling me I..." I had to clarify because it was so like we're talking now. "Are you saying that I have cervical cancer? Is that what you're saying?" And she was like, "Yes." And I was like, "Well, why would the doctor just say that?" It was very like matter of fact. I couldn't even process what she was saying. I was like, "Oh, okay." And she was like, "But you're gonna see the oncologist." Um, and she said, "I'm so sorry. You know, these doctors forget that our patients don't know these medical terms." And that's why I wrote in the book, I don't know if you read that part, but I just said, you know, not for nothing, talk to us like we're in kindergarten because we don't know the medical terminology. And then you can say the medical word, but first tell us what that is.

Speaker 13:05

Right.

Dana Lyons 13:06

Um, because you don't. And then I was fine. "Okay, great. We'll get this scheduled." And then w- like within 24 hours, that fear kicks you in the gut, smacks you in the face- Yeah and you are in this whirlpool, whether you th- I, I don't... I would've told you I'm pretty strong in my faith.

Speaker 13:26

Yeah.

Dana Lyons 13:28

And that hit really, really strong. And it was just rapid fire fear. Oh, wait a minute. Is that... And it kind of comes... You know, if anybody's wondering, listening, like, well, what does that sound like? 'Cause what's in my head, if you heard my head, it probably doesn't sound like yours. Here's what mine... It was like one thought led to another and to another, which it would... started at five miles an hour and went to 100 within minutes, and it was something like this. Wow. It's weird. I just went to one of our family reunions. I hadn't seen my entire, like, family in probably 20 years. I was like, "That's the first one. I wonder if it was the last. I wonder if that's the last one." And the reason why I was there is 'cause it was my last one, not theirs. Oh my gosh, I wonder if I'm gonna see my youngest daughter graduate high school. Oh my gosh, three, four out of my five kids aren't even married. I wonder if I'm gonna get to go to their wedding. I wonder if I'm gonna figure out, find out where Sam's gonna go to college. I wonder... And you just get- Yeah and then I wonder if my husband's gonna get remarried. I wonder if I'm gonna make it. You know, and it just hits. Till finally you are whipped so hard in that whirlpool that I finally, Vona, I had to do something that I would do with my, all the women I mentor and all the women who've been in my classes. I had to call, like, time out, 'cause I can feel it taking me on a journey of, of really bad whirlpool fear where I was spinning and I was bawling. And I just said to God, "No. We need a time out here, Dana. Time out." Because there was something that separated for me. I'm swirling in fear. That may not be true. And I just went, "Time out, Dana." Just like I would ask you, I had to ask myself these questions as a coach, as a friend. Like, what do you know to be true?

Speaker 15:17

Right.

Dana Lyons 15:18

And it hit me. It was like one of those, okay, s- serious question. That's not just like this nice churchy- Yeah praise the Lord, Jesus is in charge. It wasn't... Like, when we hit hard places, that's when what you believe, y- it's rubber meets the road. Yeah. It's where you get to actually walk that out. And I understand the wrestling of, God, why? Like, why are you doing this to me now? But it felt very like it was hitting me out of the blue.

Speaker 15:52

Mm-hmm.

Dana Lyons 15:52

I was back in the gym. I just became a, um... You know, I used to be a personal trainer and nutritional coach. I was back in the gym finally. I haven't done that in years. I w- became a barre instructor while I was waiting for my c- my diagnosis because I felt great. Um, I was doing well at work. I was writing. I was, like, super excited and I felt wonderful. So this was really came out of nowhere. And I had to really ask myself this serious question. I'm not asking for the right answer. I'm asking, what do you know is true? And it really just came to me. I was like, "Okay, Dana, what is that?" And I just said, "Well, I do know that there is life after cancer. I do know that." Even if it's stage four, that's true. There are enough people, you could just look, find s- if, even if you only found one person, you have to say that's true. Number two, there's life after menopause. Look at any woman gone through it, still living today, and they're thriving, a lot of them. That's true. And I had a, you know, a few din- and I just went, "All right. My best days could still be ahead of me." And from that moment on, things changed.

Speaker 16:56

Yeah. Yeah.

Dana Lyons 16:58

I think- But we all get hit with that

Speaker 17:00

I'm sorry. What'd you say?

Dana Lyons 17:01

We all get hit with that, you know? Yeah. That fear is very common to all of us.

Speaker 17:05

Well, I think one of the points you made in the book is really important to land on, and that is that it's okay to allow yourself to have those doubts and fears. That doesn't, you don't have to question your faith- Mm-mm just to be able to allow yourself to go there. And I think there are some people that would beat themselves up for having some of those questions and some of those, those fears. Mm-hmm. And, and I think that that's a really important point to make. It's okay.

Dana Lyons 17:34

It, it's okay, and I think that wrestle is all part of faith, our walk. Yeah. Yeah. And not only that, I don't even think you need a lot of faith. Right. So you get some people who are like, "Well, she just needs more faith." No, baloney. You need a mustard seed, the Lord says. A, a- Right mustard seed. If all you need is a mustard seed, you don't need a lot. But I think part of that pros- that whole process and wrestle is part of the journey.

Speaker 17:57

Yeah.

Dana Lyons 17:57

You know? It's-

Speaker 17:58

Yeah.

Dana Lyons 17:59

Yeah.

Speaker 18:00

And, and not... The other point that I think is important is as I was reading the book, it occurred to me because of that, that- The process that you talk about in the book, and we're not gonna take the time to go all the way through all the different things because there's I mean, it's, it's worth the, the time. And there's both a book and a journal in here. I'm gonna hold it up just, we have, you know- Yeah If You Have Cancer, Now What? But it doesn't have to be just cancer.

Dana Lyons 18:31

Yeah. I

Speaker 18:31

mean, the process, the questions, the just the, the things that we stop and ask ourselves and, and that can apply to any difficult situation in our life. Sure. And, and I think that, I think it's good that, I mean, you wrote your experience there, but it could be translated to, to a lot of different kinds of situations. And another point that you made that I thought was really, um, uh, and it wasn't You know, some of them you kind of kept coming back to and come around to, but one of them that jumped out at me is that because you had been in the Word and had been, you know, spending time getting to know the Lord in your journey, when, when it, when it did hit, you knew where your safe place was.

Dana Lyons 19:22

Mm-hmm. Um,

Speaker 19:23

and, and not everybody has that. That doesn't mean that it's any less I mean, just like you just said, you don't have to have a huge faith for that to, to matter. And I honestly think sometimes those kinds of things, whether it's cancer or an accident or whatever- Yeah it's those things, you know, what I'll say it like this. One of my favorite songs has a line in it that says that, we're all just one phone call away from our knees- Mm-hmm where we just fall to the floor and pray because we don't know what else to do.

Dana Lyons 19:56

Yeah.

Speaker 19:56

Right?

Dana Lyons 19:57

For sure. Oh, for sure. Mm-hmm. And, and here's the deal. I don't even think you need For some that will get the call, that actually st- not starts the journey, but that is what brings them to faith sometimes because- Right you start questioning li- I look at life totally- Right different now from a different lens that I didn't before, and I had faith and a walk. But for some to actually, you hear their story, they're like, "That actually made me question what is faith? What is my faith? You know, what do I believe?" And-

Speaker 20:25

Yeah

Dana Lyons 20:26

everybody's so, it's so unique to everybody.

Speaker 20:29

What are just a few of the highlights that You know, it's like we've kind of talked about that initial part. What are some of the other things that words of advice that you might give somebody as they walk their own journey, um, through-

Dana Lyons 20:43

Yeah. Wow, there's, there's a lot of them. There, there are two in particular I, I feel like I should highlight. Most important one by far is there was a moment in time where I was leading, I was leading a Bible study. I was doing the, my homework, and literally, I, you know, sometimes in these Bible studies, you know, it's, there are, like, extra questions you could do, extra activities after. I was like, "All right, oh, I love those." Sometimes I think that's where the gold is, right? So I was like, "Yeah, I'll do one." So I did one, and one, one caught my attention, and one was, hey, um, go through the Gospels and find all the places where Jesus heals people and, and find the common, like, what's the common denominator or something like that. And I just got a few in, and literally, it is probably the biggest pivot for me, um, because it hit me loud and clear why I was going through this. You read in the, in the scripture about Bartimaeus, and I just say f- to the person listening, put yourself in, in his shoes. Here's a blind man crying out. Can't see, but can hear. There a hustle and bustle of Jesus walking by. Just picture yourself. You don't have answers. What you're going through is much bigger than you. It seems impossible, and yet Jesus is for all of us, right? Whether you believe in him or not, he is for all of us. He's going by, and a crowd tells this blind man, who can't see but could hear the commotion of Jesus coming, crying out, "Jesus of Nazareth, have mercy on me." And I did this study, and it hit me like a... It was like a, just 2x4 hit me in the face. At that moment, I knew, and for everybody listening all, what we're going through might be impossible for you, but it, it's never impossible for the one who, who is the healer. And that we can have the best doctors, we could go to the best therapists, have the best therapies, meds and everything, and it became very crystal clear. It is all about God's mercy. And so at that moment in time, Vona, I started praying over myself and I prayed over everybody who calls me to say, "Hey, my friend's got cancer. Will you pray?" Or, you know, "We're going through a rough time in our family," or facing this or big, some big impossible, is God grant mercy. Because you can still... Like, I had people like, "Well, what about this person? They did all the right," what we would classify as all the right things, and they didn't make it. I don't know why I made it. I don't know why you're still here, Vona. It's his mercy at the end of the day.

Speaker 23:11

Mm-hmm.

Dana Lyons 23:11

And so crying out for God's mercy. If there's no other prayer that you know to pray, is pray for that. And pray for that over your loved ones if you're listening and you have a loved one going through this. God, grant mercy. I say to somebody, like, grant mercy for more time. Grant mercy f- you know, for healing, grant mercy, whatever. And then the second one is, again, life can get so... Like, what we're going through, no matter if it's cancer or something else, it can get so big and can consume us. And you hear this in stories with people who've got cancer. I don't know if this, this was true for you. It can easily become center stage and all you think about, all you're dealing with, all the doctor's appointments, the meds, the c- and then you have to study your own and all the things. The, another big aha moment for me was when I realized cancer's trying to take center stage, and there is something for me to learn if I'm willing to lean in and listen to what it's trying to tell me. But I chose to take it off center stage. Because if the truth is it will never be bigger than God and more powerful than God, although it's powerful and, you know, many lose their life-

Speaker 24:15

Mm

Dana Lyons 24:16

because of cancer. I don't want to downplay the, how powerful. If it will never be bigger than God, then it will never get center stage, and it will never get more attention than God gets in my life. I have to put it back where, in its rightful place. Knowing I have to go through this, but you will not get more of me than God gets of me. And still, you can have a mustard seed of faith and still do that. So it's- Yeah it's those things that it's the process. 'Cause before long it kinda can consume you. Yeah. And then your energy's going there. And it's like, well, you know, hold on. It will get some of your energy, but it doesn't have to get all of it, you know?

Speaker 24:53

Yeah. You know, one of the points you made was, I won't call cancer a gift, but it did help me. Yeah. Uh, I actually, when I went through cancer myself, at one point I was having a conversation with someone and I called it the gift of cancer because in so many ways it too brought me to a point where I was like, "Wait a minute. What am I doing with this time that I have on this earth?" And I'll tell you what, but there's nothing like a diagnosis to have you go, "Wait, stop If this is, if this is it, if this is the end- Yes what do I need to do? What, what do I not want to leave undone? And for me, it was finishing my book. I'd been dabbling in it for years, but just never really getting it done. And boy, there was nothing like that. Fortunately, you know, I knew even when I had the surgery that was gonna be it. I didn't have to go through treatment and all the things that some people aren't so lucky and do have to do that. But I also knew that that was the, the, that point at which it turned, it changed, and it was like, I have to do this.

Dana Lyons 26:09

Yeah.

Speaker 26:09

It changed so many things, so yeah.

Dana Lyons 26:11

Yeah. It, it, it makes you look at life a little different. And, and here's also the thing that I point out in this book. I think so much focus is on, well, you wanna live, right? Like, y- I mean, you gotta be healed, you gotta... Y- part of the process is some people come to this place of total peace to go, "No, I, I'm okay with letting life play out and this is it for me," and have peace about that. Yeah. That too is part of the journey. And, and your team needs to know that. Your team, your family, your, your community needs to know that and, and really, I think, respect that decision and, and w- it's not always easy. But I have to say, leading up to, you know, going through it, then one-year recovery, hitting my one-year, I don't know what it was like for you, my one-year recovery was actually h- I think emotionally harder hitting the one year than it was some of the initial stuff. Yeah. In a different way.

Speaker 27:04

Yeah. You know, I don't even remember it, so it must not have been I don't know. Yeah. Um, yeah. It, it's... So I passed my five year last year. Yay. So I'm, yeah, I'm on my year six now. And, you know, it's one of those things. I, y- you, you talked about celebrating being cancer-free. Um, and I, I remember reading the statistics, and it was if I have the double mastectomy or the mastectomy, I, it was a personal choice to go with both. But I remember them saying, you know, I would have a 97% chance of never having cancer again. And I just remember saying, "You don't know that." We never, ever have a guarantee that we will never have cancer again. No. But we can't dwell on that.

Dana Lyons 27:52

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 27:52

We, we can't look at, you know, the, "Well, but... Yeah, but... Yeah, but..." You know? It's like... A- and I love how you just said, "Live your life." Live it. Live. If you choose to live, live it.

Dana Lyons 28:06

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 28:06

And I think that sometimes, you know, that's really the underlying message on Courageous Retirement across the board is- We have been given life. We are here for a reason. Mm-hmm. And we can either get... How is it they say in Shawshank Redemption? We can either get busy dying or we can get busy living. And-

Dana Lyons 28:27

Yeah

Speaker 28:28

I think if you're here, it's because you know that you're here for a reason, and God wants you to get busy living.

Dana Lyons 28:34

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 28:35

And we... Yeah, go ahead.

Dana Lyons 28:38

Yeah, and I think that, um Too often we can get stuck at looking back and what we no longer have. Like, maybe you have to change some things in, in your life due to wh- what- whatever cancer does to your body. You can no longer do some things or you, you're, you're just angry that this is not what you wanted for your life, but you're still here and it's your best... I'm a full believer. It... This really was one of my truths. My best days can still be ahead of me. Like- Absolutely literally your best day can still be ahead of you. Menopause, cancer, stage four, it still can. There are plenty... Find one person, one person to, to just hold onto to say, "Okay, it... That happened for you, I think it could happen for me."

Speaker 29:21

Yeah. That's, that's my motto here, is, this is the best season. Retirement, of course, what I'm talking about. You're not quite there yet, but-

Dana Lyons 29:29

Nope

Speaker 29:30

it won't be, you know, it... Turn around. It won't be far.

Dana Lyons 29:34

I know.

Speaker 29:34

I know. But it's such, it's such an amazing season and, and we can stop and we can look back at all the things that God has brought us through and realize that we are here for a reason. Up until the very last breath, there's a reason. You hit on the fact that not everybody that goes through it will come out cured, healed. It's the perspective. Last episode of this show, I talked about, the fact that, our congregation buried a young man that was my son's age.

Dana Lyons 30:07

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 30:07

Two months ago, he had some pain, but He had just been assured that it was just, nothing, nothing to worry about- Mm until, until they found out that it was, and he went so quickly. And it was just, um, really amazing for me to watch the family. You know, it wasn't doom and gloom and, it was bright colors and tie-dye T-shirts and, you know, celebrating the man that he was even though- Yeah it was cut short. And, and, and to me, that testimony of even at 42 saying he had a good life, he had a, an amazing family, and he loved his Lord.

Dana Lyons 30:49

Yeah.

Speaker 30:49

Um, sometimes people need to be reminded that we weren't put here to live eternity on Earth.

Dana Lyons 30:57

Yeah. And you don't, you don't know how long we're each gonna have. Right. You just don't. And, you know, it's, um-

Speaker 31:03

Right

Dana Lyons 31:04

I think we all try to live as long as we can. I, you know, I've, I picked up this decision once I was in recovery, is to live like I'm always facing cancer.

Speaker 31:13

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Dana Lyons 31:14

Eat like I'm facing cancer, drink like I'm facing You know, live like I'm facing cancer knowing I'm not.

Speaker 31:21

Yeah. I like that.

Dana Lyons 31:22

Because it helps guide your decisions. It helps keep, I For me, helps me keep me alert and alive to, to be all in, because I think that's part of the hard- hardest part for me right now, is, you know, what are we doing? We're, we're worrying about posts and who likes things and-

Speaker 31:39

Yeah. Right?

Dana Lyons 31:40

I mean, I w- I want to, I want to be able to see the Lord face to face knowing I ended better than I started, and I ended going all in, you know? Yeah. And I think cancer can wake you up to that, or any major-

Speaker 31:56

Yeah

Dana Lyons 31:56

thing. And, you know, you know, I say not everybody is, is going to be healed this side of heaven. It was, in many ways, there was gifts in cancer, uh, that I learned along the way. There's a lot about it that's so mysterious to me. Why kids get it,

Speaker 32:11

I don't

Dana Lyons 32:12

know. Right. Why people go younger, I don't know. There are things I would love to sit with the Lord and just like, "Okay, help me understand that one." I think we all do.

Speaker 32:19

Right.

Dana Lyons 32:19

Um, so I wouldn't call that a gift. I wish nobody would have to get that. But for me, when I leaned in to learn, there were gifts for me that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

Speaker 32:29

Right.

Dana Lyons 32:30

And so in many ways I'm thankful 'cause the Lord was faithful through it all. There I gr- I wouldn't have grown and had the intimacy that I had with him had I not gone through that, and I wouldn't have had in- the intimacy with my husband, my children, and some of my close friends. I, I shared with you that I didn't share with some of my even family members. You know, I just didn't have Whether I don't see them all the time or whatever, I just didn't share that we have these moments and it was because of cancer, you know, dealing with cancer that I, I got to do that. Otherwise we Why we can tend to go in robot mode and just be busy, I don't know, but it wakes you up.

Speaker 33:02

It does. Yeah. It absolutely does.

Dana Lyons 33:04

Yeah.

Speaker 33:05

The book is really Like I told you before we hopped on, um, it's one of those books that I know that I will always have at least one copy around. Mm. So when that, that person that I know or care about, um, gets a diagnosis, I can, I can loan it to them and say, "Here. Read this." And, and, and I just, I encourage people to, to look at it from that standpoint of a resource. And like I said, it's not a medical, it's not a how to. It's a, just some things to think about to help you process-

Dana Lyons 33:36

Yeah

Speaker 33:37

what, what it is. So since then, I mean, you've, you've been busy. You wrote the book, but you have your, you know, you've got your podcast, you've got, you've got community where people can come and, and kind of learn how to Look at life from, from that, that perspective of hope. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that? If somebody wants to find out more about Dana Lyons, how can they do that?

Dana Lyons 34:05

Um, my heart is always to give hope 'cause I think if you could give hope, and I learned this just helping women in marriages when they were in total desperation and trying to rebuild their life. My heart is always to give hope 'cause if you can help somebody grab hold of hope, you could help somebody make it another minute, hour, day. And if I could help you there, then I could inspire some courage that's already within you. And in the process, it's building your faith somehow. Mustard seed, big step, doesn't matter, and then hopefully encourage you every step of the way. It's the four pillars I live from, and I, I have this urgency right now. I have this urgency that, uh, I mean, I- you can't see it, but on my desk right here is you are running out of time. Just give it away. Because I feel like there are things that we've all been given, things to steward, things we've learned, and I think our stories, um, you know, I do own my own publishing company. I, I believe stories are so important. It's how we encourage one another. It's how we help each other. It's how we actually just sit with a cup of coffee and tell me what's going on with you. We tell our stories. That's how we get through life, and that's how history's passed down. It's, to me, it's, a story is so powerful and, um, to me in all, no matter what I write or what I do, hope is the biggest one because without hope, I mean, like what- What do you got?

Speaker 35:21

Yeah.

Dana Lyons 35:22

Life can get really dark and you get stuck staring at the things that just make you swirl. So, they can find me at gritandgraceenterprises .com. They can... Social media, I'm under Grit and Grace Enterprises. You know, I do have the Get Well, Live Well, Thrive podcast that I, I don't advertise that one. It's, it is out there for anybody, but I don't advertise that one. That's just me mentoring the women that I mentor. So it's for anybody. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's a lot more geared to wholeness, health, and faith in particular, of how it affects the rest of our body.

Speaker 35:51

Yeah.

Dana Lyons 35:52

Um, and then the Grit and Grace podcast that I have is really just other women that I meet because I think we are stronger than together when we live shoulder to shoulder than-

Speaker 36:01

Yeah

Dana Lyons 36:01

you know, apart. And so for me, it's all, you know, we're created for community. So whatever you're going through, maybe they're in retirement right now and their, their bubble has gotten really small 'cause they're not in the workplace, or maybe they're trying to figure out what's next, or maybe they've gotten hit with a diagnosis and you just, going out or you're social, it all has kind of gotten small. It's don't isolate. 'Cause part of the healing and growth and vibrancy of life is being in community. And so whether you're trying to figure out what's after retirement, what's after cancer, it's like, do it with other people because that's really important. Yeah. That's where you- hope stays alive, I think.

Speaker 36:38

Yeah. Well, and our worlds get smaller and smaller all the time naturally, so let's not hurry that along, you know? That's, as we were talking a while ago, that was one of the things that come up for me with, parents with dementia. There's a a chance, I don't know, and I don't need to know. I do know that I have today, and I want to make the most of today.

Dana Lyons 37:01

That's right.

Speaker 37:03

Totally. That's really all we can do. So- Mm-hmm anyway, I just really want to thank you for, for taking the time to visit with us today. Congratulations on the book. Thank you. Yet another book. Thank you Dana has several out there that, are definitely worth the read. I think that this one's really gonna have an impact on some folks who really need direction in a, in a dark time in their lives. So thank you so much for that and for talking to us today.

Dana Lyons 37:28

Aw, thanks, Vona. Yeah. It was so great to be with you. Absolutely.

Speaker 37:30

Yeah. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you, friend.

Speaker 4 37:33

I always enjoy a conversation with Dana, and I'm just really blessed to call her friend. She makes a point in the book, we didn't really talk about it during the interview, but she makes a point in the book that in, in this process, and really in all processes in life, we need to learn how to become our own best friend. We have to make decisions that are right for us, not the critic, not the analyzer, the friend. So the one who listens without fixing, the one who says, "I've got you." The practice became a vital part of her treatment plan is what she talked about. But one of the things that I really enjoyed that really I think relates to courageous retirement is she says in her book, "Life keeps changing. Some seasons will require surrender. Others will require more courage." That's what we're all about here, right? Is living through those seasons that require courage, being able to stand up and do what we need to do to live out our faith in, in joy. So I just wanna thank you so much for stopping by today. It's such a blessing to me every time to just know that you're here listening, hopefully being encouraged to live your more. So until next time, I just wanna encourage you to keep living your more with courage. And remember, your best season may just be beginning