The Angry Biller
Welcome to the angry biller.
A show where we explore the people and the businesses behind-the-scenes of healthcare, those men and women that are the catalysts that allow providers to concentrate on delivering exceptional patient care.
The Angry Biller
Ep 20 - Transforming Healthcare Payments: Insights from Jenn Davis of Paytient
Are you tired of the financial headaches that come with healthcare payments? Join us as we sit down with Jenn Davis, the Director of Strategic Alliances at Paytient, a pioneering company committed to easing the financial burden on health systems and patients alike. Jenn's journey from Express Scripts to her current role is nothing short of inspiring, and she shares how Paytient's innovative approach—similar to payroll deductions for hospital employees—is making healthcare more accessible and affordable. Founded by Brian Worley, Paytient aims to revolutionize the way we think about patient payments, and Jenn's insights are invaluable for anyone in the healthcare field.
In this episode, we don't just stop at patient payments; we explore the broader financial implications for employers and employees. Discover how Paytient HPA can lead to significant savings by proactively managing high-cost claimants and reducing turnover and absenteeism. Jenn breaks down the potential savings for large companies and highlights the benefits across medical, dental, vision, pharmacy, and even veterinary care—with a special focus on mental health. Learn about the incredible flexibility offered by the Paytient app, which integrates seamlessly with payroll, HSA, or FSA funds, and the crucial role of customer support in enhancing user experience. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to improve financial wellness in healthcare.
Jenn Davis
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferedavis/
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Production of Podcast: VISUALS BY MOMO
Josh Fertel
00:04
Welcome to the Angry Biller, a show where we explore the people and the businesses behind the scenes of healthcare, those men and women that are the catalysts that allow providers to concentrate on delivering exceptional patient care. Welcome to the Angry Biller. My name is Josh Fertel, I'm the owner of J3 Medical Billing and I am your host. We are here at the Visuals by Momo Studios. One thing we've always spoken about on this show is about patient payments and how it's handled at the office level. Sometimes it's just not handled correctly. Patients know that they have to pay. The one thing I always talk about is that deductible or copayment should not be a barrier to accessing healthcare. With that, we are very excited to have Jenn Davis, who is the Director of Strategic Alliances for the company Paytient P-A-Y-T-I-E-N-T, and they have the win-win-win solution for this. Welcome, Jenn, we're very happy to have you here.
Jenn Davis
01:03
Thanks so much, josh, really really happy to be here and I know that the first time we tried to do this we had some really interesting difficulties, but I'm glad to be here in person with you at the studio.
Josh Fertel
01:14
We always like face-to-face. You know, I always like that connection Exactly. Let's give me your background, Tell us your story. Let's hear about you first and then we'll talk about the company.
Jenn Davis
01:24
Yeah, so I have been in the healthcare and finance space for the better of 15 plus years. I spent five years at Express Scripts within their specialty pharmacy department, which we all know now today as Acredo. I spent some time in the oncology hep C space. I was there when Harvoni and Sobaldi nearly bankrupted the insurance industry.
Josh Fertel
01:46
Wow.
Jenn Davis
01:47
And then also moved into the fertility space as well. So when we think about the financial side of care, each of those has a very unique space right.
Josh Fertel
01:56
Right.
Jenn Davis
01:57
Ended up going and pursuing my passion for finance and insurance with Northwestern Mutual for a few years. Okay, also spent some time actually headhunting stockbrokers and other people within accounting and private equity, but about four years ago now I stumbled across a company on a website called AngelList. Right and it was called Paytient and I said well, this sounds interesting, I've never heard about this before. Yeah, and I started digging and I found out that they're actually headquartered in Columbia, Missouri.
Josh Fertel
02:24
Okay, four and.
Jenn Davis
02:25
I started digging and I found out that they're actually headquartered in Columbia, missouri, and I'm from St Louis originally. So I said, all right, good, midwestern values. So I applied and a few months later I started and it's just been the most amazing journey over the better of four years, just watching this industry grow and seeing how people are approaching the financial side of healthcare.
Josh Fertel
02:44
Absolutely. What do you think in your past has headed you towards healthcare, so it seems to be your niche.
Jenn Davis
02:52
Yeah, you know it's funny. My grandfather was an internist in St Louis and he was a doctor before. Doctors made money. He made those house calls with the black bag, everything else, and he always had this drive to really help people and he also made great connections with individuals. So I've always really enjoyed building relationships with others, and especially within this space. It's wherever you are in your healthcare journey or even as a stakeholder, an employer, a consultant, working for a hospital. Everyone wants things to go well.
Josh Fertel
03:26
Correct.
Jenn Davis
03:26
So carrying that mission forward and just being able to say, hey, if we can do this in a different way, that's what drives me is saying, hey, we're going to take the status quo, we want to turn it on its head. So that's really what's driven me in this.
Josh Fertel
03:38
Yeah, no, we're on the same page. The whole reason that we created this podcast is for people like you that are. You know we're not providers, but we are a big part of the whole healthcare industry. Okay, so talk about patient. Let's talk about the beginnings how the concept and where it came from.
Jenn Davis
03:56
Yeah, I think you'll really appreciate this too, josh. So, like I said, we were founded in Columbia, Missouri, about six years ago. A gentleman named Brian Worley who was our founder and CEO. He actually worked at a hospital for 15 years before starting patients, so he saw it firsthand.
04:11
Right, when we think about these health systems, a lot of people don't realize that they're writing off about 70 cents on the dollar in bad debt every single year. When you think about what they're writing off and then the collectible amount, how much they have to pay other people to get that, it's insane. And he saw that and he's like we've got to do something because there's no way around this. Right, when consumer driven health plans came out about 30 plus years ago, everyone said, hey, this is a great idea. We're going to put the hands into the consumer. Right, unfortunately, the other end of the bargain wasn't held up. Right, because now you've got these larger deductibles and people are trying to figure out how are they going to approach this. Yes, what happened next? We didn't realize what's going to happen. Right, people are deferring and delaying care.
Josh Fertel
04:53
Right.
Jenn Davis
04:54
But at Boone Health, where Brian worked, they actually had the ability, as employees at the hospital, to use their employee badge to swipe, but they were going to the dermatologist or the in-house pharmacy, whatever it might have been, and it would be payroll deducted. And, of course, one cold night in Missouri, Brian woke up and he said wait a minute, why don't we bring this to everybody? Because that's really it right. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. In my opinion and a lot of people will say this, the data will say it too but it doesn't matter if you have a $3,000, a $4,000, or a $5,000 deductible. The barrier to care, according to data, is that first, $0 to $1,500, sometimes even less than that. So, all that's to say, six years later, we've created a platform we call the category that we've created a health payment account, HPA because we all love our three-letter acronyms in this business right.
05:43
So what this looks like is let's take that average individual who's going into the doctor, the dentist, the pharmacy, whatever it might be, and that provider on the other side of the counter says hey, Josh, it's going to be 500 bucks today. How are you going to pay us? Well, I mean, look at the economy right now. Look at what people are doing. They're having to make choices that are really hard. Am I going to get my diabetes medication or am I going to pay my rent?
Josh Fertel
06:06
Shouldn't be a choice.
Jenn Davis
06:07
And we just said no, let's not have that. So when an employee or when a consumer of care is being offered patient by their employer, they don't have that during the headlights moment anymore. Imagine a world where you just walk up to the counter and, instead of saying, oh gosh, what bad choice am I going to have to make financially, you just pull out one of these guys, I love these. I always bring props A Visa card, right, healthcare is confusing, Co-pays, EOB, everything else it's confusing. Everyone knows how a Visa card works.
06:41
So imagine walking in, handing this to them across the counter and saying, okay, $500. Now how do I want to spread that amount out? So I can take 500 bucks and I can break that into 10 payroll deductions or repayments of $50. So I just took a big, scary, chunky number. Smooth that out. Over time, the providers paid a time of transaction, which we all love, right? So they're no longer in the collections business. The employee gets the care that they need when they need it, which is good for the employer too. And ultimately, what we see too is like when you've got happy and healthy people working for you, they're more productive, they show up as their full selves, they're taking fewer sick days. It's better for the budget overall, which means that employers can reinvest back into their employees.
Josh Fertel
07:21
Correct. That's why I said win, win, win. There's like three or four or five wins that we could say in there of who benefits from this plan. But let's go back. How a person would get that card is through their employer. So talk to me about how the employers get involved.
Jenn Davis
07:37
Yeah, absolutely, and there's a couple of different ways that we work. The primary place and we call it our core offering really is within the employers. So think about Hyatt Hotels, r Donnelly, russell, stilver these are all clients of ours today, or even, you know, joe's Auto Body Shop down the street, whatever that looks like. So, employers, they work really, really hard with their team and partners externally. We call them benefits consultants or benefits brokers. They'll work hard to build a plan that's really meaningful and usable by their employees. A lot of people don't realize how much work goes into that little ID card that you use when you go to the PCP every single day.
08:16
So we can work in a few different ways. Typically, what we know to be true is that, because employers rely on the information, the insight, the knowledge and experience of their consultants, they're going to say hey, consultant, I've got a problem. My employees are deferring and delaying care. Our budgets are going through the roof. I'm going to have to go and tell the CFO that we're going to exceed our benefits budget this year, but can you help me? What do I do?
Josh Fertel
08:41
Right right.
Jenn Davis
08:42
Typically those consultants end up calling me because if you think about this, you can inject liquidity into the system and then get really creative as to how you want to build out your benefit plan later. So, like you said, win, win, win.
Josh Fertel
08:55
Right. So it would make sense then to maybe have a little bit higher deductible from the employer side on the plans and then augment that with the patient.
Jenn Davis
09:07
Oh yeah, absolutely, if that's what they need to be doing, right? Because you know, unless you're Jeff Bezos, and I'm not even sure if he has one but nobody has a money tree in their boardroom, right? So there's only so much money going around, there's only so many dollars. So what do we want to do with that? And to your point, having a higher deductible I think there was a study that was done in the 70s that said having some kind of skin in the game, now making it astronomical there's different arguments there. But having just blanket free-for-all across the board, that doesn't actually create better healthcare spend. It doesn't create better consumer of care behaviors spend. It doesn't create better consumer of care behaviors. Having some kind of piece of equal share in the accountability and responsibility.
09:49
That's what happens.
Josh Fertel
09:50
Because if there was zero deductibles, the system would be abused.
Jenn Davis
09:54
Yes, yes, and I mean I think about this even in the idea of health reimbursement accounts, right, and I think it's a fantastic thing because you've got to hit a certain amount of care. But is there superfluous care that's happening? And our chief strategy officer I lovingly call him our resident actuary he actually said listen, this is the data that it shows If people are getting unnecessary care that still continuously bogs down the system.
Josh Fertel
10:20
So how do we get people to do what they're supposed to do and make the right choices? Go to the quality providers. Make sure that they're paying on time. What are the options when somebody's showing up for the?
Jenn Davis
10:43
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the way that we work typically, especially within the employer space, default's usually going to be payroll deduction, right, because it makes it easier. You don't have to sit there and remember oh wait, I have that bill that came in from Baptist Health. I have to remember to pay that, so it really alleviates a lot of the friction of people having to remind themselves. Great. Now, what's great about this, too, is that there's all these other tax advantaged accounts that we all know and love, right? Our flex spending account, our health savings account. So if people want to leverage those dollars within the patient platform to help to pay back some of their healthcare expenses, they can absolutely do that.
11:20
Even if they wanted to go straight from a bank account, they can absolutely do that too, what we've found is that, from the employer's perspective, when you have that payroll deduction piece, it alleviates a lot of the guesswork for the employee. They can see right there. Hey, I know what my next payment is going to look like. I know when it's coming, because that's when the money's hitting my bank account. So I can do some easy, easy consumer math on my side, so I can do some easy, easy consumer math on my side.
Josh Fertel
11:45
So a health savings account, so it's not necessarily a competition for you.
Jenn Davis
11:51
No, we love those. In fact, we just released publicly a couple of weeks ago that we've entered a partnership with one of the very well-known HSA providers in the country called Health Equity. So think about it this way, right, because an HSA is a health savings account, it's not a health spending account, and I mean again I worked at Northwestern Mutual for three years An HSA blows whole life insurance out of the water.
12:19
It's the most tax advantaged financial vehicle on the planet, but if people aren't using it that way, then they're not really getting the benefit of that benefit that their employer is typically providing to them. So I look at this as a shock absorber. For that right, I use my patient HPA as my HSA preservation tool. All that money can grow over time so that when I get that knee surgery that I know I'm going to need in 20 years, thank you genetics.
12:44
I know it's there for me. I'm just using that as another retirement nest egg. So from that perspective, when we talk about employees' whole well-being in every pillar financial, physical, mental and emotional and also social this is starting to hit on all the different places because people feel connected to their healthcare journey. They're not stressed about money. They're not stressed about being healthy, and those are the two things that Americans stress about the most today.
Josh Fertel
13:10
For sure, for sure, and you absolutely know your numbers. So let me ask you this From an employer standpoint what are you finding as far as the benefits or the uptick when they're providing patient to their employees?
Jenn Davis
13:26
Yeah, the interesting question that comes along with that Socratic method. I'm going to answer the question with a little bit of a question embedded there, but it really depends on what we're trying to solve for right, because each company has unique challenges. I know that one of the first Fortune 500 groups that we brought on a few years back, the head of HR, openly told me she said all of our high cost claimants in 2021 didn't seek care for the last two years prior. That tells me you've got a problem. But a lot of the ways that we're looking at this. We all know that there are certain cost drivers within the employee well-being, hr, comp and bend perspective. Turnover is very, very expensive for people, also high cost claimants. Providing insurance in general is a costly thing.
14:13
A lot of employees don't realize how expensive it is. But a lot of people still remain scared of that higher deductible plan because they don't have that shock absorber there. So what we've seen? We actually we did a case recently. We saw a 40% voluntary migration from the PPO to the high deductible plan within one company after offering patient. We've also seen over time that there's a roughly 32% delta across our portfolio in turnover between employees who actively and regularly use their patient HPA and those who just never download the app instead of their account.
14:47
And I'm not an actuary. I can't sit there and say, like causation versus correlation entirely but there's something there, and I mean imagine a world where we start to level out all risk across the board, because we're all in the business of risk, whether it's the employee benefit side or even from the commercial risk side, p&c, workers comp claims.
Josh Fertel
15:07
Yes.
Jenn Davis
15:07
Imagine a world where we can have a reduction on that because people are more focused at work. Yes In total population health people are not going to be using the PCP or their emergency room rather as their PCP, so that starts to reduce claims spend.
Josh Fertel
15:21
Do you know off the top of your head one of your client employers, what that's meant to their bottom line?
Jenn Davis
15:29
Off the top of my head. I shouldn't. There are certain things that we're not allowed to talk about.
Josh Fertel
15:33
Josh, and I don't want my general counsel there. So what we think?
Jenn Davis
15:37
about what I would say is this like if we do some rough math, because when we think about an ROI perspective, right Of like okay, what does that really mean?
15:46
We actually like to break that down into the same cost methodology as what we use when we say, hey, if you give your employees access to this, we charge a monthly subscription fee per employee per month is what we call it a PEPM. So what we look at is a potential value lever, right, like, where are the places that you're going to be able to save? And they have different amounts based on that unique company. I will tell you you can look at all these different levers and believe in all of them reduction in cost claims, voluntary migration, reduction in turnover, reduction in absenteeism and presenteeism. I'd say a conservative number. The last time we ran one for a group about 10,000 employees. If we bought into all of those that PEPM, let's say it's 10,000 employees. I mean, imagine where we're saving them $12 per employee per month. Now do the math, multiply that by 12, and then multiply that by 10,000.
16:41
And those are conservative numbers, yeah.
Josh Fertel
16:43
It's a lot of money, that's a ton of money.
Jenn Davis
16:45
And.
Josh Fertel
16:46
I knew that was going to be the answer. I knew the answer was going to be a ton of money.
Jenn Davis
16:49
Yes.
Josh Fertel
16:51
Let's take a short break here. I want to come back. I want to talk about, from the patient perspective, sure.
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Josh Fertel
17:21
All right, we are back with Jenn Davis of Paytient and really getting some good insight as to just all of the benefits that this company provides. We've talked about the employers. Let's talk about the individuals now. What have you seen as the biggest help to the patients that are using the cart? Is there a specific, or you see an uptick in some specialty, or just a general doctor, or what are you seeing?
Jenn Davis
17:50
It's a great question, so I look at it from a few different places, right? So there's five main categories overarchingly, where people can leverage their patient HPA, okay, medical, dental vision, pharmacy my personal favorite veterinarian care.
Josh Fertel
18:06
I want you to say that list again, in case we went too fast Of course, of course, medical. Right.
Jenn Davis
18:13
Think about anything that's in there Licensed mental health counseling, chiropractic care, things that might not necessarily be covered by insurance.
Josh Fertel
18:19
Yes.
Jenn Davis
18:20
Dental yes Vision Dental.
Josh Fertel
18:21
Yes.
Jenn Davis
18:22
Vision Pharmacy.
Josh Fertel
18:24
Yes.
Jenn Davis
18:25
Veterinary care.
Josh Fertel
18:26
Feel like you've got everything covered.
Jenn Davis
18:28
Pretty much, pretty much.
Josh Fertel
18:30
The fact that you said and then we'll get back to it when you talk about mental health and a lot of providers being out of network and not having insurance, that's the most important thing. We do a lot of talk about mental health and a lot of providers being, you know, out of network and not having insurance, that's like the most important thing. We do a lot of talk about mental health here too. So just the fact that you said that is wonderful.
Jenn Davis
18:47
Right, and to your point too. And again, we're here in South Florida, right, most providers, chiropractors, licensed mental health counselors they don't want to play the insurance reimbursement game. They're cash pay, right, exactly.
Josh Fertel
19:05
But the employees can still use this if that's the best provider for them. So when we talk about quality of care access, this is one of the biggest barriers for that Right and is mental health where you see the most money being spent.
Jenn Davis
19:10
We see a fair amount of that. I will say that there are certain companies who have really started to dive into having an employer sponsored model, like the Lyra Health of the world, even some telemid pieces, right, I would say. We actually did a study at the beginning of 2023 because we were curious.
Josh Fertel
19:27
We're a very curious company.
Jenn Davis
19:27
When people do have access to care, when we unlock liquidity, where do people go first? Well, unsurprisingly, the largest category within that is medical spend, and then it kind of starts to trickle down over time. What we saw was interesting, though, is that while the first transaction people would be using their patient HPA for about 16% was pharmacy, but over time, that recurring use in the pharmacy category doubled, which tells us okay, we're helping people be more adherent to their medication. Think about somebody who has diabetes. Right, they're planning their rules over January 1st, January 3rd, they've got to go in. If they don't have the money, they're walking away. Yeah, so, and again, I used to work at Express Scripts. We always said better adherence is better outcomes.
Josh Fertel
20:13
How do we?
Jenn Davis
20:14
keep people adherent, make sure that they can afford it in a healthy manner, right? So I'll tell you, too, what we have seen over time is it's not as much about hey, where's the biggest use case, but we're not a product, right, and our CEO will always say this too. We're not just simply a card, we're not a financial tool, we're not a fintech company. We're a feeling right, that feeling of peace of mind.
Josh Fertel
20:36
Yes.
Jenn Davis
20:37
And we actually have a Trustpilot reviews page that's completely unfiltered. We as employees can see them come in every single day as notifications. I've never seen the word blessing used so many times to describe something within the employee benefit space. Josh.
Josh Fertel
20:54
It's miraculous. It just occurred to me and again I'm coming from a provider point of view where we need to collect our deductibles. As you said, 70% is written off, but you're still going to see that doctor. That doctor is still going to see that patient, whether they have the money or not. But prescriptions you're not getting that prescription without paying.
Jenn Davis
21:17
Exactly, exactly.
Josh Fertel
21:20
That's the scariest part.
Jenn Davis
21:21
Oh yeah, and even veterinary care to some extent, and you know, pet insurance has gotten a lot better over the last several years, but there are still some things that aren't covered.
Josh Fertel
21:31
For example.
Jenn Davis
21:32
You know, there could be preexisting conditions. And again, I'm going to knock on wood right now because I have a 12-year-old German shepherd at home and I've been very, very fortunate. I have a 12-year-old German Shepherd at home and I've been very, very fortunate. But there are certain things that might not be included, because maybe they don't allow for hip dysplasia treatment, because German Shepherds are more prone to that potentially.
Josh Fertel
21:51
Understood.
Jenn Davis
21:51
Or they have a pre-existing condition because we don't get pet insurance until they're five or six, but they had something that happened earlier in life. Could be a million different things, but the biggest piece again that I go back to is the reimbursement timelines, right.
22:04
And this health reimbursement account. Great, we're paying down towards that, but how do we get the money to make sure we're getting the care right then? That's half the battle. It's the same thing from a veterinary standpoint that typically the veterinarian will make you pay up front, or they have a little sign on the wall that says care credit.
Josh Fertel
22:22
Yes, yes, right, they have the cards right there to apply for.
Jenn Davis
22:27
And and I mean imagine that moment, because a lot of people have this right when they're applying for a credit card, whether it's for their healthcare or just for a typical credit card what if you're somebody who doesn't have like lovely 800 credit score? And you're like oh my gosh, am I going to get approved? What do I do. And then that suspension and that moment of fear. What do we do with that?
Josh Fertel
22:49
And it could be embarrassing too.
Jenn Davis
22:50
It's embarrassing.
Josh Fertel
22:51
Right.
Jenn Davis
22:52
It's horrible and that's one of the things when you are not fully able to take care of yourself. It affects how you are as an employee, as a partner, as a parent, as a friend, as a sibling. So how do we make sure that people have one less thing on their plate that they're worried about?
Josh Fertel
23:10
Right. One of the first things that you said, and something that stuck with me before we even started this, was how much money is written off and how the CEO saw this and saw that this was his mission to try to make this right. Tell us about the technology portion of patient how do you use it? Because certainly, just from the things that you're saying, you people know your numbers and you know what you're doing and it's impressive, it's impressive Everything that you're doing. Uh it, and you know it. It's impressive. It's impressive. Everything that you're saying is impressive. I love it. Technology how does it work with you guys? As far as um, you know how to collect your.
Jenn Davis
23:51
You know the payroll deduct yeah, well, the uh, we've got this really cool thing. It's called an app oh, okay, good. So that's the way that it works, right? Because, again, I think about those moments when you know, let's say, your seven-year-old is climbing the tree, even though you told him not to, and he falls out and he breaks his arm.
24:10
You're grabbing your phone and you're grabbing your keys right, correct. So we also want to make sure, even if somebody forgets their physical patient HBA visa at home, that they've got this ready to go for them, so they have their virtual visa card that's sitting there on their phone.
Josh Fertel
24:25
Beautiful.
Jenn Davis
24:26
Available to them. So when an employee joins the patient family, when a company says, hey, we're going to give this to them whatever day, they turn this on. Every employee that they say, hey, we want you to have access to this, they get a magical link to download their app and set up their account and they go in. Once they set up their account, they have their virtual card with them in less than 60 seconds. Most people actually are downloading their account when they're sitting in front of the pediatrician, in front of urgent care. So we'd love for everybody to listen during open enrollment and benefit season, right?
Josh Fertel
24:58
Yes, yes, where there's so much going on, nobody does.
Jenn Davis
25:00
And that's okay. But within that it creates that real-time technology, right? So I swipe my card. I get a notification immediately. Okay, ooh, it's $200 at urgent care. How do I want to spread that out? Okay, well, I know what my paycheck's going to look like next week, so I can say no, four payments done. Now let's say that it's a Tuesday night a few weeks later and my German Shepherd decides to eat a chicken bone out of the garbage can. He has not done that, he's too smart for that, but I've heard stories. But I mean, that's probably gonna be more like $800, right?
Josh Fertel
25:34
Right.
Jenn Davis
25:35
So I'm going to spread that out further. So each one's unique right, Because not everything is the same for people. So all of that information is aggregated per employee and the employee is really in the driver's seat. They get to decide hey, do I want to use some of my HSA or FSA dollars? Do I want to use payroll deduction? How far do I want to spread this out? If they need to change it, they absolutely can. We have a fantastic team of customer support champions. They're all here in the US. They're all real humans. I've broken bread with all of them, so it's really hey, we're there, we're your lifeline when you need us.
Josh Fertel
26:07
So there are options as to payback.
Jenn Davis
26:10
Oh yes, Optionality and flexibility is the name of the game in healthcare.
Josh Fertel
26:14
these days Is the income of the patient. Is that factored into how long they can take to pay it back?
Jenn Davis
26:22
We don't factor the income into their payment terms. Typically, what we look at is 12 months is really the cap, Because what I'll tell you is in our data and when I first got to the company, I thought that people were really going to be using it for those catastrophic moments, right.
26:36
Where they're blowing through their deductible or their out-of-pocket max. It's really quite the opposite, josh. I mean, our average transaction today is about $104, which means that people are using this for $30. People are using it for $200. It's more of that death by a thousand cuts philosophy.
26:55
So what we do, though, because we have a financial arm to what we do, right? We're basically extending an interest-free credit allowance to somebody, so it's our institutional credit facility, and we want to protect that. We want to protect our banking partners, so we want to make sure that we are adherent to financial and federal regulation. We also want to be good stewards, right. Our internal mantra is do no harm, so we do a wellness assessment. It's two questions, right? Our internal mantra is do no harm, so we do a wellness assessment. It's two questions, right. Hey, how much money do you make? What are your monthly expenses? That is it no hard or soft credit pull, which is always a beautiful thing, right? And as long as somebody's income does exceed those monthly expenses, they're good to go, because if you make $1,000 a month and you owe 5,000, I can't do good responsibility to go, because if you make $1,000 a month and you owe $5,000,.
27:41
I can't, it's a tough one, good responsibility to do that. Did you say interest-free? Interest-free, no fees to the employee, no credit check Ever.
Josh Fertel
27:50
That's good, you got it. You snuck that in. You know how do you find the employers to work with and how do they find you.
Jenn Davis
27:59
Oh, that's a great question. So I would love it if employers also just grew on trees and they were knocking on my door. But we're something that's new and unique in this space, so we want to go out and talk about that. So I work very, very heavily with those benefits consultants to say, hey, I know you've got clients that are going to need this, so let's find some time, let's talk about that Now. Every once in a while I'll actually have an employer that fills out a form and says, hey, I want to learn more about this. I'm curious. We also have a number of partnerships with different carriers in the market, some of the larger insurance companies that you'd be aware of today, whether it's on the commercial side or within their ACA space. So it's a lot of word of mouth that happens. The easiest way to find me is going to paytient.com or go on LinkedIn and look up Jenn Davis at patient.
Josh Fertel
28:55
P-A-Y-T-I-E-N-T.
Jenn Davis
28:56
Paytient with a Y. Yes, you'd be surprised how many people look at the word and they're like patient. How do I say this? So it's funny what our brains do. They play tricks. But yep, it's patient with a Y.
Josh Fertel
29:11
So you said that the biggest connector for you were group consultants, group health consultants. That's right. That's right, and so it's not necessarily the employers themselves. It's the people that are providing the health insurance are really the ones that you want to connect with.
Jenn Davis
29:28
Yes, I work a lot with those people Because, again, in HR, they've got so much going on. Many of them are wearing five hats to one person, so they rely rightfully so very, very heavily on their benefits consultants and their brokers to say, hey, we're going to help you build the plan design. We have a lot of data that comes over years of experience, multiple different employer sets, so that they can right-size this. So this is a perfect opportunity for them to come in as well and say, hey, I've got something here that is going to not solve everything, but think about it more like the aggregate of marginal gains. I am not going to completely eradicate your diabetes risk but.
Josh Fertel
30:09
If.
Jenn Davis
30:10
I can get a couple of people to do the right thing over here. If I can have a little bit of impact over here, everything is just going to improve and really elevate the performance of that entire insurance and benefits plan that we have.
Josh Fertel
30:24
All 50 states, all 50 states Anywhere outside the United States.
Jenn Davis
30:27
As of right now? No, because we have certain lending licenses that we have to abide by, and things just get a little bit different when you start to go outside of those lines. Gotcha, yeah, but all 50 states, all right. So one more time, I want you to say how somebody those lines Gotcha, yeah, but all 50 states All right.
Josh Fertel
30:41
So one more time, I want you to say how somebody can connect with you.
Jenn Davis
30:44
Yeah, absolutely so. There's always www.paytient.com, but me specifically. If you go on LinkedIn, just search Jenn Davis MBA at patient and also always happy to receive emails.
Josh Fertel
30:57
It's Jenn J-e-n-n at paytient with a y.com. Final question, my favorite question if I had a magic wand, Jenn, and I gave it to you to work for patient or for the business itself, what would you do with it?
Jenn Davis
31:14
oh my gosh oh, that's a dangerous one, josh. Oh, there are so many things that we could do with that.
Josh Fertel
31:20
You can have more than one.
Jenn Davis
31:21
I've decided If I could have a magic wand, I would want you to clone about 150 million of these babies.
Josh Fertel
31:30
Okay.
Jenn Davis
31:30
And just put them into every single workplace, insured American's hand across the country.
Josh Fertel
31:36
That is a great one 150 million. That's it, 150 million.
Jenn Davis
31:39
That's all Okay.
Josh Fertel
31:40
I better get started on that. I knew this was going to be a great show, because the way you know your product, the way you know your business and the work that you do, it's a win for the patients, it's a win for the employer, it's a win for the provider. Which we didn't even really talk about is that they're able to collect this 70% of what they're writing off easier, because if it's writing off 70% of a hospital, small medical practice is doing the same thing. It's just the law of large numbers right, exactly.
32:09
And it just makes it so much better, and there's no barrier to healthcare, which is the most important thing, absolutely. So thank you for coming in today and I'm hoping that you'll come back with some more news or as things change.
Jenn Davis
32:24
Always happy to do a round two.
Josh Fertel
32:26
Thanks Jenn.
Jenn Davis
32:27
Thanks, Josh.
Josh Fertel
32:29
Thank you for listening today. Please follow us on Facebook and LinkedIn, and you can check us out at theangrybiller.com.