Unflinching Forgiveness in the face of a seemingly Unforgivable Crime

01:51 Learning Lessons and Remembering the Victims
04:50 Finding Out About the Shooting and Locating the Injured
06:14 The Tragic Loss of Life: Five Girls Killed
08:07 The Amish Community's Response: Forgiveness and Support
10:09 Remembering the Victims: Honoring Their Lives
18:02 Finding Solutions to Prevent School Shootings
21:32 The Role of Faith and the Polarizing Nature of the Topic
23:14 The Trauma of Losing a Loved One in a School Shooting
25:03 Sharing Personal Stories to Inspire Change
27:01 Addressing Security Issues in Schools
29:04 The Debate on Gun Control
30:52 The Need for Productive Dialogue and Solutions
35:28 The Impact on Family Members Beyond the Victims

  **Summery**
In this poignant episode we welcome Jonas Stoltzfus, a family member of the victims of the tragic school shooting at an Amish school in West Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania, in 2006. Jonas who was only 16 years old at the time, and having 4 family members in the school house when the murderer entered the school with guns in hand, shares his personal experience & the profound impact this event had on him, and those family members.

He also speaks to the trauma endured by the survivors. Jonas provides an account of the Amish community's response, emphasizing the importance of finding pathways to closure and always remembering the victims.

"The shooting victims:
Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12;
Naomi Rose Ebersol, 7;
Marian Stoltzfus Fisher, 13;
Lena Zook Miller, 8; and
Mary Liz Miller, 7."
Source:    Details about the incident from the news,
**Probably Not All of the article is 100% Correct, as Jonas says in the podcast!** https://www.pennlive.com/news/2023/10/he-was-an-angry-man-the-tragedy-at-west-nickel-mines-amish-school-in-2006.html  **
Source: (Jonas) Sarah Anne Stoltzfus was shot in the head from close range, yet miraculously survived. Both of her brothers that were there in school that day, were kicked out by the murderer and were unharmed physically.

His story is a reminder of the resilience of the human spirit & compassion in the face of unimaginable loss. Tune in to gain insight into how we can all work toward making our schools safer. This shooting; however, breaks so many of the normal MO of previous school shooters. 

Welcome to the VIDEO PODCAST "School To Embassy Project." In each episode, I’ll be talking with experts and individuals directly impacted by school shootings to find real solutions & understand the factors driving these tragic events. We'll also discuss how to prevent young boys from falling into despair, considering suicide, or becoming shooters.

Join me on this journey to make our schools safer. Listen now and be part of the change: https://youtu.be/S-EeVf4GTlw 

Transcript

0:00

welcome to the Step Podcast. what I really wanted to do, bringing you on being somebody who has family members who were in a school shooting, one that I would definitely say most of our audience probably, unfortunately, did not hear about. I was unfamiliar with it until I started doing a little bit more research. I had just vaguely heard that there was a shooting at an Amish school in Pennsylvania, and that was it. That was the only thing I could partially remember in my mind. And then I looked it up and then got a couple of pieces there. But again, this is something that should be remembered. This is definitely something that, as we look at school shootings in America, there is no hierarchy there. Every single one is a tragedy. Any child lost is a tragedy. And even the the would be shootings have been failure, somebody was able to grab the gun or, you know, detect it early. That's still a very bad sign, right? Just because they didn't meet their plans and terrible atrocity didn't take place. These are all things that we need to be paying attention to if we're going to come up with solutions to the problem. And again, I will always say there is no one solution. there ARE a ton of different approaches to ending school shootings and some of it is very much on the preventative side and that's a whole nother podcast obviously. But this one is focused on learning lessons from and remembering those who have unfortunately lost their lives in a school shooting. So if you would just kind of tell us a little bit about you and then Go ahead and jump right in. Tell us what happened the day of the shooting there in Pennsylvania and about your Nieces Okay. Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate you inviting me on here. Yeah. So my name is Jonas Stoltzfuss. I grew up in Pennsylvania, a very an Amish community, and ended up moving to Tennessee, living all that in 2015. shooting that happened on October 2nd, yeah, and I 2006. was five five girls died that day and one of them was my oldest niece just you know normal day school we went to school and this Guy shows up that was actually a milk truck driver that knew some the students in that school and so I Yeah, it escalated from there. He let all the boys out, the teacher got out, went for help. And of course, you know, the entire Calvary showed up as far as law enforcement. But before they were able to go in, he started shooting and five girls died. And I had a niece that had severe injuries. traumatic injuries, head injuries from it and she survived. So her older sister died and she was fighting for her life in a hospital bed, unconscious. Yeah, we didn't know if she was gonna make it at first and so, The fact that you have two nieces of all of the students that were there, you said six, right? I believe six were shot total or was it seven five that died and five injured. So there was 10 that were, 10 total that were involved. So five died, five were injured. died in five were injured and this was a very small school right you said one room schoolhouse. Yes, very small. I don't know the total number of students, but very small. I would guess around 20, 25 students. I don't know for sure, but yeah, very small one room schoolhouse, very conservative. And this is in Amish community are all of the students have to be Amish to go to this school or this is just a school that's run by the Amish, but you don't have to necessarily be Amish to go to it at that time all the students were Amish. I don't know how they do it now, but normally it's all either all Amish or Mennonite students. Yes. This was called the West Nickel Mines _ school shooting. So the day of you are finding out about the shooting... in real time... where were you at on the timeline of being alerted? Where was the shooting? Like, was the cavalry already there and where were you at as far as the timeline goes of finding out about your nieces? Yeah, I was working at a furniture shop actually from my brother in a furniture shop. And we found out soon after either it was at lunch or soon after, I believe. And at that time, all we knew was there was a shooting, the boys got out. That's all we knew. And then, we kept, you know, we kept working. We're like, well, what are we supposed to do? which was a mistake. We should have just left work we didn't know more till later that day. we didn't know who made it, who didn't, we didn't know till late that evening. that my oldest niece Anna May had died and we didn't know where her sister was until late that night because she she was in Philadelphia, at the Children's Hospital in Philadelphia. So it took hours to even just locate all the ones that were injured. Because I mean, you know, medical personnel, they just loaded them up in helicopters and took them away because it was critical. And even finding out that my oldest niece had died, it was late at night, but it was almost a relief just knowing where they were. Like, Not knowing what had happened, are they living, are they not, was worse than once we knew, finally we knew where they were. heard that before. I don't have personal experience, but I've heard that same sentiment over and over and over from parents whose children went missing or were kidnapped or ran away. Those types of things where they always say not knowing is worse than even knowing that your child's, you know, has died. And that's. That's hard, I think, for just your average person to understand. And even with as many things as I've seen and being in law enforcement and dealing with, children going missing or think that they're going missing and actually they ran away, those types of situations, your heart goes out to the parents. But again, you just, you want to empathize with them, but it's hard to comprehend, you know, really what that what that feeling would be like. most people want to figure out, you know, why this person, committed a shooting I think this is the one instance where just off the research I was able to do and what was said in the news. I think this is the only case of course, that I've ever heard of where, right. The whole Amish community. Surrounded the family of the. perpetrator, right? He goes off and kills these children and then he leaves his wife and his own children who were to our knowledge based on the news reports dumbfounded that he was going to do this. Like this was as big a shock to them as it was to anyone else. And so the Amish community actually like money that was donated to the Amish actually they gave to her and tried to really Like bring her into the community and kind of everybody almost grieved together, I guess is the best way that I can describe. Again, the research I was able to do. Do you, do you know any more about that? I don't know much more about that. I just know that yes, that's what happened. I mean, they, you know, it was, you know, supporting her with her grief as much as it was grieving. Yeah, because it was like you said, They didn't know this was going to happen. It was nothing, you know, they thought it was, they had a happy family too. And then one day, husband, a father, goes and does what this man did and then takes his own life. They went through just as much trauma as the families that lost children did, really. You know, when you really break it down, it doesn't matter how it happens, you know, it's death. They lost people, lost six lives were taken that day. Right? Just put it that way. Whether it was the victims or the shooter, six lives were lost that day. So, and it's hard, you know, and it's hard to come to the place of forgiveness when something like that happens, but you have to. Because if you don't forgive, it creates bitterness and that gets nobody anywhere in life. at all ever. And so and it's hard like and it's not just like for some people it took a long time. They had to forgive again and again and again. Right. It's not just a one time because when a situation like that happens it's so traumatic like it can take a long time to come to that place of okay yeah we're good we're going to be okay. I completely agree. And again, I think it's easy from the outside to say, well, what we know of forgiveness and the human condition, if you will, it's hate is a cancer that will eat you. And you're right. It does you no good to hate at the same time. It's the most natural. reaction when someone you love, especially your niece, as a great example, is taken such a young age. Do you know exactly what age she was when she passed? So she was 12 and her sister was younger. Her about... If I remember correctly, her sister was 7 when this happened. And a seven year old, you know, being critically injured, probably going to die as you described it. And then her older sister, only 12 years old ends up passing and to then again, as a community, which is even, right, it would be shocking. It's shocking when one person has the ability to forgive someone who commits murder against their child in a robbery or, you know, I've seen that type of thing many times on news stories and in events. It's different when, you know, again, these are very innocent kids out of nowhere, somebody who knows them, he's familiar with these families, he used to deliver milk to them. And then he goes and does this. And it was all very calculated. Again, he let the boys out, he let the teacher out. So he had a plan for all of it. It wasn't just like he went crazy one day, right? Air quotes, he went crazy as a lot of people like to write off, unfortunately, things like that, things that don't make sense to us. And then he ends up killing these children and then turns the gun on himself and. Now you've got a wife and children left behind who are not only they just lost their own father. Now actually it's way worse in for them in their mind. They're like, wait a minute, we lost our father, but he actually killed himself and he actually killed all these innocent people. This right that I think is when I try to wrap my mind around just being a human and trying to put yourself empathy. into another person's position, I cannot wrap my mind around what their child, what their wife, and then again, I think because of the Amish communities, bringing them in and embracing them and supporting them and helping them so much. Like seriously, this like brought me to tears several times just thinking about it, right? Like how do you have that much forgiveness in your heart? And it's, I think it's so crazy that somebody could do something like that and knowing that they're doing that to their own loved ones. Again, that's where you have to just write it off and go, okay, that person had to have just snapped and went crazy. Because again, it's easy for us to just say that. But it doesn't sound like that's the case because again, he had a whole plan. He systematically did what he was kind of planning to do. But again, the Calvary luckily showed up in time to force his hand before he did more I just wanted to point that out. And I think that everybody should go do a little bit of research on the West Nickel mines this is a very tragic event, but I think this is such a, such a strange event. Again, as we've described and not one that you're likely to see again because of the situation of the Amish and how they reacted with this tragedy. Yeah, I would, I would, I'd agree on people doing their own research, but take everything with a grain of salt because there will be stuff out there that isn't necessarily all true. So there are books written about it. I don't even know the names of the books, but there are books written about it. But again, yeah, take everything with a grain of salt. Be careful what you actually believe. There is some it, but, but yeah, yeah, definitely do your own research too. I'll definitely, I'll talk with you after this. We'll talk offline and kind of look at some of those books so I can include those for the podcast down below. Obviously we know that the media, unfortunately doesn't, people have motives for why they're writing what they're writing. And unfortunately that is another tragedy that where it muddies up the water and we don't actually even know. what the true story was. And again, I don't want to ever focus on the shooter, why they did what they I don't want to ever bring up the name of a shooter. There's a lot of them, unfortunately, that the shooter's name has been let out. And I what leads to more of these shootings is the notoriety and people going, well, I'm not going to be famous, so I might as well become infamous. And you see that in a lot of the writings that they leave behind. that that's where we are as a country, finally learning that lesson. And there's parents from the Aurora, Colorado shooting that they were kind of the torch bearers for that movement, specifically taking it to the big media outlets and and really winning that battle to the most, I would say to the most part. There's still, unfortunately, small papers, small organizations who still are gonna use the names and, you know, unfortunately are probably doing things to get clicks, to get likes, because that's how they get paid. And that's, again, just another sad part of this entire dynamic, right? one of the things I definitely want to do with this podcast is to always remember those who have lost their lives. And so with your niece, Anna May Stoltzfus, her date of birth, which was actually April 16th of 1994, and then the day of the attack being, you know, the day of her passing. And I'm going to do my best to in this podcast and on social media. to remember those children and the people who have lost their lives, including, you know, of course, their teachers who gave their lives in defense of these children. And those people need to be remembered. And I think coming from the military background where, you know, I served and ended up doing missions, you know, with Pat Tillman and there's several other guys that I served with who ended up passing and they... You know, some died in combat, some died outside of active combat, but the tragedy, they're giving their life in service for the country. And so for us, it's as a nation, very easy to be on board with everybody always remembering those people. And you're, you know, you post something about one of your brothers who died, your sisters who died in service to the country. And of course, again, you get a lot of. love, everyone for the most part respects that. At the same time, I want to start remembering the victims and it's going to be difficult because of course they're children mostly and mostly children, their name is kept out of the media and I totally understand why that is at the same time. I personally think that it's important to remember their names and to remember their lives and celebrate that these people had a very short life on this earth, but it was a life that was tragically cut short and something that we should constantly have in our memory and in the front of our brain as a motivation to move forward. people are inventing and I've had some of them on my podcast, I'm going to have more on my podcast who are going through the process and have completed patents on these products that can absolutely save lives. It's very difficult in this one shooting, right? The West Nickel Mines where it's, it's an Amish school that that was a very unique situation. You would write, I doubt that the Amish are going to go out and do a lot. to get the latest, greatest on defense, right? And again, because that's not in their nature and they don't expect terrible things to happen. And I mean that with the most respect because of their beliefs. And I very much believe in God and very strong believer as well. I understand that there's tragedy that happens in the world and I will never try to explain it away or try to truly understand it. And... Unfortunately, a lot of people will look at that and say, well, that's actually a tragedy in and of itself that you're not going to, you're going to put your faith in God, but not actually take the steps to get something that could physically secure or make your school or child or whatever safer. Right. There's no one answer. there are a plethora now of people coming up with solutions. And I think ultimately at the end of the day, bad people are going to do bad things and they're going to find ways to do terrible things to places that don't, I wouldn't say that don't take measures to more secure their school. Obviously in a scenario where, a kid knows that his school has purchased a whole bunch of glass that you can shoot up as many holes through it as many times as you want, you're not gonna make it through the glass. You can never get in there to actually shoot the students. Or the ballistic bookshelf that the inventor created that literally locks into place, blocking the entire door with a big sheet of solid steel and a ballistic behind that bookshelf built into the back of the bookshelf so that nothing is getting through that doorway. And then having a actual mirror where if the shooter is shooting, they're literally shooting at themselves, actively looking at themselves, shooting at themselves, a solution for a scenario, right? at the end of the day and specifically your niece's story, the Amish story here, I think it says a whole lot more. There's so many lessons to be learned here or things to at least just really think about because... this was somebody that they trusted and this is not somebody they would have blocked the door for. This is not somebody that they would have tried to prevent from coming in. And he, right, made entry because of that. He was able to just walk right into the school and nobody thought twice about it because he's familiar with them. if you're not a Christian, I think when you read the It'll be a very polarizing topic because I think people of faith are gonna look at this in a totally different I think that that's just, part of the tragedy of all school shootings. have you come to any new realization to new thoughts on anything after having, you know, again, lost your Niece and going through this experience? lose a loved one in a tragic event like that. It changes your life whether you use it for the good or for the bad and so it changed me in a way I was like for me it was I was 16 almost turning 17 at the time I really went inward and was like what am I doing with my life and so You know coming coming away from that no matter how you how things like that happen or how you take it it's going to change you and it's I guess I just, I don't know how to put it all into words, because, you know, I definitely, yeah, I had a belief in Christianity, of course, you know, that's what we're taught, we're taught anything about God, you know, Jesus, done for our sins, you know, I believed all that, but it had a new meaning for me. after that and I knew that I knew for certain that my niece was in a better place. We just you know you just feel it. Just knowing that she was in a in a better place not that that makes the death any easier it doesn't it still hurts like crazy because you lost the loved one but there's also a peace in knowing that She wasn't suffering, you know, she was going but yet her sister Younger sister Was laying in a Sarah Anne was laying in a hospital bed Fighting for her life not knowing the first 48 hours if she was gonna make it And so like, well, that's not fair either. So, and then we had, you know, we buried Anna Mae and her sister, you didn't even know what was going on. She wasn't conscious yet. And they were so close. So we buried Anna Mae and Sarah Anne was fighting for her life. And they were so close that she didn't even, she had no closure to later in life. where she got better and then later in life, years down the road, she had never gotten closure. She never grieved her sister. And so that was really hard. And yes, like you mentioned, she had to go through a lot of counseling and, and all that, just to deal with everything because she never got to grieve for a sister when she died. She grieved her sister years later. Again, that's hard to fathom. Yeah. And even I can't, even as their uncle, I can't fathom that. I don't know that kind of trauma. know, I really hope, Sarah Anne writes a book. I really hope she does. And I've never really had the conversation with her as if she remembers anything or of that day. or if she'd be open to talking about it. Because yeah, it's hard. A lot of times that kind of trauma, once they get healing from it, why go back? Why? Unless it's to remember the people that passed that day. Yeah, there are examples in my where somebody lived through a traumatic experience and then they shared their story and that really inspired change. I think it's hard to ever put that, especially somebody like your niece who was seven years old and never even grieved her sister. From the outside, it's easy for me to be like, well, I would love to talk with her someday if she's ever open to that. What would I really ask her? What words? Like... I think for me, especially being a new dad, which is a big part of the motivation for me starting this podcast, because I can't imagine putting my son onto a school bus and my son not coming home. I just wish that I wish more people were taking serious because I know of from the mouths of police officers who are witnessing it. every single day right now in 2024, there are places in Florida, in schools that they are not taking this serious. I'm just telling you, there are people who are being lackadaisical, who are circumventing. probably rules that are not being obeyed. There's probably... things that everybody's supposed to be doing, they're just not. And unfortunately, when you hear about that from somebody who's witnessing it firsthand, it just makes me just not comprehend how you could have heard these stories and not take this stuff serious. Somebody could walk in off of the street right into a public school. from outside doors that are supposed to remain locked at all police officer is doing his job and blah, blah. Okay, but. It hasn't worked yet. There's been instances where a police officer has heard that somebody has a gun and they've been able to go and prevent it, but an active shooter, police officers, we know one by themselves who don't have rifles and the body armor the tragedy is that it shouldn't take this country. to have children who've somehow miraculously survived a shooting like that and been through something like this for that child to have to go back and revisit that day and think about that and write a book and go publicly to speak to people. I'm just trying to start a podcast because I want people to take this more serious. And the more people that talk about it and bring up the solutions, the individual solutions that people are coming up with, inventing to prevent things like this happening to unknown children. somewhere in Colorado, somewhere in Montana, somewhere in Kentucky, somewhere in New York, those kids should not lose their lives because somebody Isn't taking it serious. I already know that I'm going to say this over and over and I'm sure I'm going to get a whole lot of hate mail for it. It's police officers who are going in with guns that are shooting the bad guys. It's people who have guns that are going in that are able to stop the shooter from doing what they're doing. If you just say take away guns, that's not the solution. Everybody right now is at odds. Every single school shooting there's don't dare take away any of my rights and there's guns kill people, guns are bad. If guns were illegal, then nobody would have guns. Okay, murder is illegal. taking a gun into a school is illegal, drugs are illegal. None of those things stop anything ever. And they only, as we already know from the drug trade, make things far more, far worse The reality is people are going to do harm. People are running around right now, stabbing children. People have been doing that for a long time. In countries in Europe where gun restrictions are extremely strict, people are being beaten to death with hammers. That's not how I want to go out. That's not how I want kids to be attacked either. The reality is bad people are going to do bad things. And if it's using a car to run over people, which we've seen in parades and we've seen people using that in California where they have strict gun laws, criminals are getting in with their they're the ones who have the guns to go. rob people and break into people's houses and do with them whatever they feel like doing that day or night. And then people using all types of means, right? You can still make bombs. You can use a fertilizer to make bombs. We learned that from the Oklahoma City bombing. That's been a little while. We should have figured a lot of these things out, but we haven't. People are still just going to the same two dumb things and going, guns are bad. No guns aren't bad, bad people are bad, and then not, but that's it. That's where the conversation stops. They're not coming up with any other dialogue. plenty of people surely are, We're just not hearing of it because on social media and on all the paid- for -news outlets, which are all of them, pretty much, that's all you're hearing, right? And it's, I think that is the mind numbing part where people tune out. after a shooting, they know it's just going to be one side yelling at the other side and they're just going to yell at each other and nothing's ever going to get accomplished. It's a lot like our government. It's a lot like watching Congress on C-SPAN. You're just watching people arguing. Maybe they actually believe it. Maybe they don't. Doesn't matter. Nothing, nothing really changes. And people aren't being honest. people have their own agendas. And when people use their agendas, again, like I already mentioned, people are using the names of the shooter, knowing that they should not do that. They're doing it anyways, because they want you to click on their little story so they can make some money off of you clicking on that. And that's what they care about the most. That's sickening to me. And we should call that out. When somebody posts, a, the name of a mass murder school shooter, that should be flooded with know, demanding that they take that down and quit doing that. They should boycott them. They should, because again, this, that's the only recourse we really have. I, I don't want the government to be in control of muting who they feel like, because of course it's typically, the good people who the government. these days are going after. YouTube is shadow banning people all day, every day. Same with I just wanted to bring you on today to share a little bit of this experience of what happened at West Nickel Mines, not to get into the terrible details, but just... The fact that this happened, this mattered, your niece's lives matter, both your niece who was injured and has recovered, but also to your niece, you Anna Mae, who lost her life tragically. And we should always keep those people in our memory. And that's what I'm gonna do my best is her memory alive and remind people that her life mattered. and I appreciate that and thanks for doing this because I believe this is going to have a huge impact. Another thing I wanted to mention too is that a lot of times never gets mentioned either is, yeah, it was my oldest niece, but she had two brothers. Well, I believe it was only two in school at that time, but whether it was two or three, she had brothers that were going to school as well. They got out, but they had to deal with some trauma too, because they were there and then they got out and they knew it was going to be bad. They saw the guy in there. You know, and so the, the, what they had to deal with to overcome this and all the trauma even they dealt with, even though they didn't get hurt or anything, but they lost their sister. They watched their other sister fight for her life. And so just wanted to mention that too, as well as it's sometimes there's family members that never get mentioned they still deal with, forgiveness and trauma and everything. cause they were young too. You know, my niece was 12 and she was the oldest of the family. So they were all young and to deal with that kind of trauma at that age, it's, it's insane. my nephew that would have, he would have been, man, I guess he would have been 10 or 11. He was the oldest boy in the family. I mean, he talks about it to this day. He basically became a man of the house that day because, you know, his dad was in the hospital with... his sister that was fighting for her life So somebody had to be at home and somebody had to be in the hospital. And so he grew up overnight. I mean, he didn't have a choice. And that's not right either. But what he, you know, there was no way around it. And, and so, and the way he's dealt with it is amazing. He's an incredible man now. He's married, incredible. The way he's handled that that's just one of the boys. It's just, you know, things don't get mentioned and it's important to remember that. When somebody loses a loved one, sometimes people, some of the people that were directly involved aren't mentioned. And it's important to remember that they were involved as well. So I just wanted to mention my nephews as well. 100 % man, I think just trying to wrap my mind around the, the instance and, and that circumstance of, the girls and this guy who they all trust and he gets in for that teacher, for, for those boys, for, you know, that whole community. I, I, Again, I don't think that we really have words in our vocabulary We keep using words like crazy, you know, insane. We can't wrap our minds around how a person can come through that and, and be okay on the other side. And I don't mean, I don't mean. like, like nothing happened. I just mean like functioning can handle normal everyday life like a average person can. Of course, there's gonna be trauma that will live their entire life with. But like you said, now he's grown up and married. That's obviously that's amazing. And yeah, yeah, it's incredible. Our prayers, especially for my family and everybody that I know and that's gonna hear this message are gonna be praying for you and for your family and for your niece who did survive and your nephews and their really want to share their story, we can remind people that this event happened, that the people who lost their lives mattered. maybe something, they will say, maybe something will get through to the right people who will pay attention to this stuff and will make decisions that will... ultimately save other children's lives. The world seems to be getting more evil, but if you ask any person from any past always say the exact same thing. Times always seem like they're getting more evil. that's That's why I had to start a podcast to where we can give these stories life as they deserve and your niece, the memory that she deserves as well as your nephews. appreciate everything you're doing I think it's great that Someone is finally bringing some of these things to is super important to remember people and to Bring awareness because like you said Every time there's a shooting this side and this side and there's never a solution and so I think this is gonna help for sure and I appreciate you having me on and I'm happy to do my part and everything I can to make a difference. You already have, you're the very first person that I'm bringing who've been through this with your, with family members. not a single life that's ever lost should ever be out overshadowed by another's or any other event just because Uvalde _ was bigger, just because Sandy Hook was more. people died because Columbine, the fact that we give it a label and then, okay, that's those people. Like, I don't, I don't know off top of my head, the NAMES of the people that died in Columbine off the top of my head, the NAMES of the people who, who died in Uvalde. I understand the reasoning behind not bringing their names up BUT AT The Same Time. I think that that might make the difference in making people take this more seriously. Obviously in the future, if there's more things to share from you, you're always welcome back on. And of course, your nephews, your niece, of them are welcome to come on here to share any part of the story that they always have a place to do that through my channel, through my podcast. And I just want to make sure that that's a forever offer. Amazing. Thank you. Absolutely. All right, well, it's been great having you on. I know that you're in the middle of a lot of things going on in your life and you're moving. And again, I really appreciate you taking the time to be on here.