Lessons Learned from the Carpet

Some testimonies arrive with fire and thunder. Others arrive with the quiet hum of a vacuum cleaner.

This week on Paths to Glory, we sit with a man born two blocks behind the church he would spend thirty years running from. Probation by the age of eleven. Three prison sentences. A father figure murdered when he was eight, a mother taken, and a moral compass he tried for decades to drown out. And underneath all of it, a mother who would not stop praying.

His is the story of a vow made on his knees in a county jail cell before he even knew his sentence — of a Bible read more than forty times inside — and of a limp back through the sanctuary doors of the very church he had once been chased out of. Not saved by thunder, but by the patient, unglamorous work of a God who was never once in a hurry.

And of the lessons a redeemed man began to learn when he picked up a vacuum cleaner and started tending an altar.

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If you’re enjoying Paths to Glory, be sure to check out our two other podcasts!

Paths to Glory Kenya shares powerful stories of faith and transformation from the heart of Africa — voices of hope, revival, and purpose.

And for the young — and the young at heart — don’t miss The Jones Family Chronicles, a fun, faith-filled adventure series for the whole family.

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The song "Paths to Glory" created with Udio and written by Roy Allison IV.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Everyone has a story. That story is your path. A path filled with trials, triumphs, transformations, and miracles. Welcome to Paths to Glory, where we dive deep into the extraordinary narratives of those who have had their darkest moments, turned into beatings of hope. Each episode unveils the wrong powerful stories of redemption and mood, showcasing the awesome power of God. But no path is beyond redemption. Now join us and let these powerful stories illuminate your own. Others feel like they are already prayers. This one was the second kind. Perhaps it was the man himself, the softness of a voice that has clearly been broken open. Perhaps it was the details of the story which reach back further and further all the way to a childhood no one should have to carry. But I think what made this discussion different was the awareness sitting in the room with us. The awareness that the man across from me had eat and every worldly sense, no business being there. He should have been in a cell or in a coffin, or so hardened by both that reverence would have been impossible. Instead, he was sitting there telling me tenderly, carefully about a carpet about the vacuuming of a carpet, about what God had taught him while he was on his knees at the altar of a church he had once been chased out of as a teenager. His story does not begin with faith, it begins two blocks away from it. He was born and raised almost within sight of the sanctuary he now serves in. As a boy, the church was simply part of the backdrop of his life. A building in the neighborhood, the strangely dressed people going in and out, the singing that reached the sidewalks in the evenings. He never rode the bus that came together children like him. He walked past the doors many lonely nights on his way to something much worse. The home behind him was already fractured. He had never met his biological father, the man who raised him from the age of two, the man he called Dad, the man who was building a family the best he knew how without God, was murdered when he was just eight years old. Shortly after his mother was taken, not lost, taken, and she was gone for nearly a year. He and his sisters were passed into the care of grandparents who loved them as best they could. But who were themselves broken and stretched thin? He was a stepgrandchild in that house, and he could feel it. Presence were different, correction was different. Everything he would later say was different, no matter how hard people tried. Anger arrived early, it had every reason to. But underneath the anger there was already something else. He would tell you plainly, decades later, that even in the worst of it he never took the name of the Lord in vain. He always had a reverence for God. He describes it as a moral compass he was trying to drown out. Something he was watering less and less on purpose. Because the more you water a thing, the more it grows, and he was trying to make sure it did not grow, but it wouldn't go away. That is the quiet thread you have to hold on to as this story darkens, because for years it darkened badly. He was on probation by the age of eleven after an incident at school. He was in juvenile detention for the first time at thirteen. Drugs were not something he had to seek out. They were in the neighborhood, in the traffic through his home, in the older boys up the block. By sixteen he was selling on a street corner in North Phoenix. By eighteen, he was in an adult cell for the first time. By nineteen, he was in prison. He would go back twice more. Three prison sentences in total. When you add them up, most of his twenties and much of his thirties disappeared behind bars. He is quick to tell you that his crimes were not violent. He never robbed anyone with a weapon, he never hurt anybody. But he also does not use that to excuse himself. The pattern was the pattern. Drugs, running, probation violations, new charges, prison, release, repeat. Thirty years of the same cycle. Somewhere inside the middle of those three prison sentences, something began to shift. Not to him, but in the family behind him. An older sister came into the truth. She and the man who would become her husband, a man who had first been his own running partner in the streets, were both baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and both filled with the Holy Ghost. He watched it happen from behind glass. And when she came to visit him, he saw her weep at the sight of his tattoos, and something in him marked the moment, even as he made fun of it. Even as he sat, as he would later put it, at the seat of scorn, mocking her along with his mother, running through every dismissive line the world hands people who do not want to believe. And then his mother came to visit, and his mother was weeping too. And his mother said only three words that he would not be able to unhear. It is real. Everything before had been argued with. And in the cell after that visit, quietly, without ceremony, he began to lower a guard he had been holding for a very long time. He started getting CDs of preaching. He began to read the Bible in the last months of that sentence. But the sentence ended before the surrender did, and he came out into the same neighborhood and drifted into the same currents, and eventually a stolen dirt bike and a foot chase sent him back a third time. Seven years. His girlfriend was pregnant with his son. He would not meet the boy on the outside for a long, long time. It was on the way into that third sentence, in a jail cell, before he knew what his sentence would be, that he did something new. He got down on his knees and he made a vow. He wept for his unborn son. He told the Lord he was going to give him every bit he had. He told the Lord he would read nothing but his word, no other books, no other teachers, nothing that might tilt him. Because he didn't want to be told he was okay. He did not want to be reassured. He wanted the truth, and he was going to sit with it alone for as long as they kept him in. Then he kept the vow. For seven years he read the Bible, sometimes six times a year. If you do the arithmetic, that is more than forty complete reads. He fasted with the church every January from inside the yard, got his bachelor's degree while he was in there, he memorized, he prayed. He drew closer. Even the danger drew him closer. There was a season inside when a group of men had marked him for harm. He could have called for protective custody, but he didn't. Instead he prayed every day, a prayer he never thought he could have prayed before. Lord, I trust you, whatever happens, happens. And then one day an older man came from the church to visit. The older man opened the Bible to one verse, the third chapter of John, the fifth verse, and asked him quietly what it meant. He answered from what he had been reading for years alone in a cell. It meant water baptism, and it meant the Holy Ghost. The older man closed the Bible, and they talked about ordinary things and then the visit was over. A few days later his mother told him what the older man had said on the phone about him. He doesn't have jailhouse religion. That is a sentence you can build a life on. But not yet. When he was finally released seven years later, he came out expecting the family he had left. His son was waiting, so he thought, was the boy's mother. He'd spent seven years preparing to lead them, and he assumed she had spent seven years preparing to follow. But she hadn't. She had built another life. There was another child now by another man, and the look he had once known in her eyes was simply not there anymore. He will tell you honestly that he was not ready for that. And what he did with that not being ready was pride. He got a job that paid well. He looked at the other man and looked at himself and told himself he was better. He looked at everything he had walked out of prison with and used it as evidence that he did not need to walk into a church. And so his old reset point took him back. When life had hit him as a child, he had turned to drugs. Well, life was hitting him again. He turned to drugs again. There was a night on a motorcycle he can't remember the details of. He came to consciousness at one in the morning in a car being driven by strangers he had never seen and never saw again. His finger nearly severed, his knee shattered, his face broken, his bike gone. Whether he was robbed, whether he was left for dead, whether angels carried him into that car, he still doesn't know. What he does know is that he did not go back to prison for it. He should have. He was covered in violations, and when asked years later why not? Why not this time? The only honest answer he could give was that God had said not this time. He healed in a hospital bed with his Bible open. His mother, who by now had walked her own long walk into the church, was beside him. He read her the fifty first Psalm out loud, the words King David wrote after his own worst season. The psalm was David's confession, but it was also David returning to a vow he had let slide. And the man reading it in that hospital room had a vow of his own that he had let slide. He had made it in jail years earlier, on his knees weeping for an unborn son. He had kept it inside those walls for seven years. He walked out of prison and set it down. He looked up from the page and he knew what to do. He limped into the church that same week, literally limped in, still healing. And the bishop took one look at him and said something like, Boy, you look like the world's done, throwing you around like a wet rag. He kept coming. He started Bible study with one of the brothers. He wept on that brother's shoulder one night, saying he didn't know what was going to happen next. A detective had called him, and the sentence hanging over him would have been a long one. But that he had one prayer left in him. Lord, if you send me back, don't send me back without the Holy Ghost. He fasted the entire week that followed. On a Saturday outside the sanctuary, Bishop shook his hand and slipped folded money into it and told him he looked hungry, and then he should go get himself a hamburger. He tried to say he was fasting, but he thinks the pastor already knew. The next morning, the sermon was on reset points. He wept through it. That evening another sermon. That Sunday evening in the church he had once been chased out of, he received the Holy Ghost and was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Which brings us at last to the carpet. Because after he was filled, and after he was baptized, and after the long backwards climb into a life he had never actually lived before, he began to look around the sanctuary for something to do. He picked up the vacuum. He would come in when the building was empty, he would run the vacuum slowly across the carpet in front of the altar. And in the quiet of that work, the humming, the pushing, the careful going over every row, the Lord began to teach you. He would tell you and he could write a small book about the things he learned from that carpet, about the tears he could see pressed into the altars from the last service, about what it means to tend the ground where other people meet God, about the fact that pride would have kept him from all of it, that pride would have told him. He had a bachelor's degree and a job and a master's in progress and no business behind a vacuum cleaner. That pride, given the chance, would have robbed him of the very lesson he most needed to learn. He was not redeemed to kick his feet up. He was redeemed to serve. And so a man who had spent thirty years being dragged through courtrooms and cells and streets found himself in the quiet of a Sunday afternoon doing something no probation officer had ever assigned him. He was tending an altar. He was cleaning the place where broken people had knelt. He was pushing a vacuum over the tears of strangers, and finding that God was in every pass of it. He will be off probation soon, officially, for the first time since he was eleven years old. Thirty years. He is raising a son who is the exact age he was when the man he called Dad was killed. Only this boy will not be handed to grandparents. This boy will not be passed around. This boy lays face down on the floor of the sanctuary to worship because that is what he has watched his father do. The cycle stops here. A vine only has to do one thing to stay fruitful. It only has to stay connected. The moment it is not, all the fruit in the world is not enough. It will not last. He knows this now. For the first time in his life, he is connected. And the carpet the strangely gentle, unglamorous carpet of an apostolic Pentecostal sanctuary in a Glendale neighborhood he was born two blocks behind, is where he sits and lets the Lord finish teaching him. Not in thunder, not in fire, in the quiet hum of a vacuum, in the tear-marked pile of a church house floor, in the patient hand of a god who is never once in a hurry. And this path? Well, it's yours, Eric Hancock. This is your path to glory.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

Are you a native Arizona? Yes, sir. I'm born and raised in two blocks behind the church. Seriously. Yes, sir. And the templesman in the backdrop of my entire life. Now, did you ride the bush? Yeah, or anyhow, did you ride a bunch of things? No, sir. Just literally living on 53rd Avenue. Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Very cool. Okay. For most of your life. Anybody in here?

SPEAKER_04 21:23

Anybody can't relate to the city.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Oh, you did you weren't catholic? So does it mean not really practice? Okay, so we've always been with mom. Yes, sir. Okay. Many years ago. I remember I remember Christian. Her daughter is a Laura.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

Yeah, interesting dynamics.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

The introduction that you had to tell you to come to Jeremy.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

No, so the first memory I ever have was actually kind of disrupt. I don't know if you remember. Again, I was running in games right there. Right there in the neighborhood. And I remember walking into Faith Temple with a cigarette in my ear and uh you know, an A shirt, a muscle shirt, or how many years ago was it, you think? Probably late nineties. Before it was you know, when it was still Faith Temple. Obviously we got ran off, but it was just uh I don't know why we I Don't remember much of the thought process going into it. You know, you're knocking ahead. It's just was it just you? Was it a f a couple of years? Me and a couple of guys from the neighborhood. Okay. And and what was the reason? I don't know. I think we just wanted to go and see what was up because we have always seen everybody dressed different. Um just just seen the church there. It's all like I say, it's been in the backdrop of of mine pretty much my entire life. Sure. And uh again, God was my my nonna, my nonna was she was, you know, with all that being said, she was a cat Catholic. Um but I remember too being, you know, the first like question I had in my head, maybe it was the Lord gave me revelation, was because I knew I was baptized as a baby. But as I was getting older, it's like that doesn't make any sense. How did I come in and say as a newborn? I don't know, anyways, but it's all just something to think about. But uh no, that was the first time I'd ever stepped in the faith temple. Um who was the first one to get into church? Well, my mom was was married in and I think it was United Pentecostal church when she was sixteen or seventeen. Yes, she was she was the one that had that truth um to begin with. Okay. When she was younger, and even though she was raised in Catholics and, you know, Catholic sort of deal. So oddly enough, the way my sister Crystal and Raul got into church, again, we were right there in that neighborhood, they were arguing, fighting, you know, a mess on drugs in the world. And uh Raul was sort of running from Crystal one day because they were fighting, arguing, and she was chasing him down. And it just so happens right in front of Bishop's office, and he obviously was pastor at the time, and he's like, Raul's telling Bishop, I need help, I need help. He says, My my girlfriend's chasing me trying to get me here. He's like, Okay, come on in. And again, the this is the most version that I remember from being told, and and and so and I have a pretty good memory, like maybe we all think we have a great memory until we go. But anyways, uh so Crystal comes in, Bishop's got Raul down in the office, and they're talking to me, you know, issues of this and that, and somehow or another it gets around to my sister seeing saw a picture of her aunt on her dad's side, the Wilson side. The rest was history as far as that, when they got into church, you know, I mean it's obviously more context than that, but yeah, and so they got into church. I was in prison at that time. Uh now, how old were you when you went to prison? The first time? Mm-hmm. I was 18. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

18. Well, actually juvenile. I was the Oh, you did juvie. Yes, sir. Okay, we'll get into that in a second. But okay. So, okay, so that whole thing, that was really kind of the family's first interaction was with Bishop back. Correct.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

That was the genesis of it for this generation, not my mom's childhood era.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

So, other than the wandering in with some buds one time, never really never gave it was never really a pull, never really interested in God in church and and any of that.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Only thing I ever knew, even in my mess, even when I was completely, you know, locking my conscience up and just casting it to the side and trying to like drown it out. Because it's like, you know, what you water the most is like it grows up. So outside of doing that, like I I always had a reverence for God growing up. I I did, I I I would never say, take his name in vain. Like I had a reverence for God.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

You believed in God.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

I I I I had there was just something there. There was something there and and and and I was sort of like, you know what, I had something I don't understand, just in case I'm not gonna disrespect it until I understand. And that was just something kind of I carried as a as a kid. So that that that was the first feeling of that. I mean makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Makes sense. So what was your uh so you s you obviously got in trouble and got in trouble as a kid hanging with the wrong bunch, doing so you went into juvie first time, the first first time, how old? 13. 13 was the first time in Juve. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Wow. 13. I've been on probation since I was 11 years old. And I just give this context, how old are you now?

SPEAKER_03 27:31

I'm 41. Okay. Just turned 41 at start at Antioch. Okay. Wow, congratulations. Yes. Oh, you're a you're a a Jew like guy like me. July 8th. Okay, okay. Yes, sir. So, um, okay, so went into juvie. Um, drugs, theft, just typical petty stuff.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

It was all drugs. So I had a dad. I had a I had a not a my not my biological dad. I don't say father. But who you would who you would to recognize. It was it was Alani. I don't know if you know Alani from church, her mom's real dad. So we all have three different dads, me and my sisters. So my mom left her husband, which was the Wilsons, Chris, my older sister's dad, uh went out of state, got pregnant with me, came back, had me here, and ran back into ran into an old high school somebody, which was the one that raised me since I was two years old. Gotcha. Up until he was murdered at the time when I was eight years old, the same age as my son Eric. So I called him dad, he was my dad. It was, you know, we weren't in church, my mom wasn't in church, but he was he was, you know, obviously uh doing bad stuff that got him killed. And so um how'd that affect you as an eight-year-old? Uh oh, I'll never forget the day. And and it it you kind of just go numb, you know, and and then shortly after my I mean, I don't know how much I don't want to disclose too much, but my mom was, you know, uh kidnapped after that or by the same thing for he was gone for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

All about the same kind of same stuff that he was into. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

He was into some bad stuff, he was trying to get away from that bad stuff, become a family man, wanted his family with us. My mom was uh well, my mom just had my little sister because she was only five weeks old when he was killed. He was getting away from it. They said, No, you're not getting away from it, and to death do us part, sort of deal, and that's what happened. And then they kidnapped her.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

So luckily it's a miracle that they didn't come after you.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

Well, well, yeah, no, for sure the kids, but it's it's it was something it would be something that that I know my mom had a fear of it following me in my adulthood because of the footsteps I was going into and the crowds that I was coming into. So once that happened, now as with all you know, all things considered, in worldly terms, like we had a family. It was I had like a and I would say, you know, quote unquote, it was a normal life.

SPEAKER_03 30:09

That's your memory of a real family of a life, correct father and it was mother together.

SPEAKER_04 30:14

Correct, correct. And it and even though it wasn't God, and now you know, reflecting and looking back, it's like, you know what, I I I appreciate him, however, he he led us off a cliff, you know, and that's why it's so important and you know, not to get too far ahead, but that's why I love you know the love in love in order, love out of order series from pastors because it's so true.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Dad was murdered, the situation that that then uh went with your mom. Uh so how long was your mom gone? Uh you were a year a year, yes. Okay, so mom was gone a year.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Yeah, yeah. And what did you do? We uh my my mom's parents took us like all suddenly at once, and I remember they were so and they're good people too. They're Catholic, they're just they're our it was a rough.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Did you assume the police were involved or were they not involved?

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Well, they didn't know, they didn't know anything.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

They didn't understand why she's gone.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

Yeah, they don't they don't know. They just know that that that he had been in so uh a suspicious you know accident. Sure. Uh all the details they don't know, they didn't care. All they knew is like, oh great, we have a five-week-old newborn, we have an eight-year-old angry boy who just lost his dad now, and we have a 12-year-old girl who's my sister.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:23

So they just inherited all of us just boom like that. And I'll never forget that. They were stressed out, you know, because I remember it. They were they were stressed out, they were short. But they stepped up. They did. They did. They did. It wasn't very comfortable for me. Uh my mom's parents, I you know, they just because you And they're not my blood either, you know. We have different my mom, so my mom was two years old when her mother married my mom's dad. It's not, it's they're not, we're not blood, and you know, it's just it's one thing, and I I don't know how that goes or what the what the commonality is of it, or or if it's just but you just know when it's not your you know, you just do. And and and it's you just get treated different. And you just do. When you're a step kid, you're just getting treated different, or a step-grandkid, it's just it's just different. The presents are different, the it's just different.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

It's just different. So no matter how hard people try, it's still gonna be different.

SPEAKER_04 32:14

That's right, that's right. And if you do something good, it's like, oh hey, and if you do something bad, it's like, oh you know, my blood anyway.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

So so so you uh uh so you Okay, eight years old, then of course again, just being a little heathen, and went into juvie first time.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Well, I was angry. So my my nonna, not my so my nonna marge is my mom's mom. When I say nonna marge, I'm talking about my my nonna, my grandma, but when I say my nonna, it's my great grandma who we lived with growing up in Glendale, right there behind the church. Okay. So, and that's my mom's grandma. So, this is my great grandmother. She, on the other hand, and so and I gotta remember too, my my my grandparents, my mom's parents, they they didn't didn't have no boys. I was the first boy in a whole generation. I don't have no uncles. I don't have I I have two boy cousins now that came along later on. But at this point, there was no one to relate with me, let alone someone that didn't have doesn't have a dad, that you know, a lot all the brokenness that happened. So So Gin, no lots of turmoil, lots of chaos, but no God really. No anything. No, no, no, no direction towards the Lord. It was literally just uh uh so I I turned when my mom came back in, you know, drugs were prevalent, drug dealers were prevalent, all that lifestyle on top of the gang lifestyle right there. And so, you know, that's that's that's who I turned to. Right. Well, and also too, um, um my name I have green eyes, I look white, even though I'm am part Mexican, and my last name's Hancock, and I'm in a mix predominantly Mexican neighborhood. And so, like, yeah, I had a little bit of a.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

I'm trying to put all that together while you were talking about it. I'm like, yeah, man out, you know.

SPEAKER_04 33:53

So I kind of yeah, so I kind of had a little complex maybe growing. I don't know, and I'm not the tallest guy either. So I mean I'm a little man complex. Double triple way. That's it, that's it. So I feel like I always had something to prove, and and and even though, and that's that's the other thing I know it was is I would literally shove my conscience to the side just to to feed the pride, I guess you could say. Sure. And so it's it's just it it was that was something I always remember. Because it was never me. It was never me to to try to be hardcore growing up. So I and I'm saying all that to give to I know that that was the Lord. This ain't you.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

This isn't you, this isn't what so you kind of was a sense that there was something there that but it m it was always just pushed down.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

There was a moral compass. Absolutely. I tried to dry it out so it you know would be weakened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Okay. So you went in the first time, Juvie. How long were you in juvie?

SPEAKER_04 34:42

The first time I went, it was uh four months.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Okay, and it obviously it it sounds like it was back in and out of juvie. Correct. All the way until you were old enough to go to the non-juvie side.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

And it was all it was it was really for um it was just drug abuse. It was drug abuse running amuck, and and you know, I I I broke crimes, but I never hurt anybody. I've never I've never robbed anybody with a gun. I never got all mine are non-dangerous, non-violent crimes, but they But they're repeat offenses. Correct. And they and they would just lay me down like always and they make it seem like, you know. So I got it was uh I was 11 years old, I was angry, I had to live with my non Marge, who wasn't the most she was stressed out, and so if I said something snappy, boop, slap in the face. You know, I had no there was no nourishment or no uh nurturing at that time. It was it was different, and uh, and so uh same thing with my grandpa. I remember slamming the door one time and he grabbed me and threw me because I slammed the door, and so uh uh, you know, they were trying to figure stuff out as well and stressed out, and they're used to a routine. He's a military man, so he was everything, everything got the got turned upside down. So I was in seventh grade, uh, my mom was back in the picture, but not it was just everything was broken in this kid at school was and I'm not making excuses, but picking on this anyways, I ended up um fighting him, uh uh, you know, beat him up, and the the officer on duty there, which uh I was in in school suspension the day before, so he knew who I was anyways. I got arrested for assault um when I was 11 years old. At school. Correct, uh at Choya Middle School, actually. So uh got arrested, went to the court. Of course I was dirty, I was smoking weed at the time. I got the judge told me, okay, I'm gonna UA you. You come up clean, you'll be off probate. I was obviously dirty, got put on probation, and then I like the reason why I went back when I was 13 was for dirty UAs, all dirty UAs. I never stopped. I never stopped smoking, uh, never stopped, you know, using. And so I turned uh uh 16, had a girlfriend, and I'm I'll I'll streamline this a little bit. Moved with her to uh Michigan at 16. Yes, sir. Yes, well, I was well, I was I was selling drugs on the corner of 27th in Deer Valley or when I was 16. And we we drove to Michigan and I stayed in Michigan for almost a year or a little over a year, and then I turned 18 and came back, and then caught a case after that, went back to Glendale right there, and started using harder core drugs in the neighborhood again after even though I was gone for a year or something, everyone was like, Oh, hey, what's up? You know, yeah. Stepped right back into this state. Yes, sir. And then uh, you know, I don't know how how much detail, like what it was, but it was like so. My Nana got sick in that house. She she got cancer, she moved out to recover with her her son. Basically gave the house to me and my sister, Crystal. Uh uh, you know, let us take it over, and we could have had it, you know, again, and but again, I had gang members over there. My sister started using that's where she met Raul because he was my friend first. He was my my homie, you know. Sorry to speak like that, but it's you know, that's not getting it. Yeah, no, you well, he was he he was my friend. He was he would come see me, we would go and run the streets and stuff. And I went to jail as an adult, and then that's when they clicked, and and you know, the rest is history for them. They've been married ever since. So, uh, and that's you know, Laura come along, but uh that house was starting to get really known around with you know the police department, Glenda police department, and so they stuck a uh uh and it was the other guys, they they would bring in stolen cars and you know, chop shop right there. And so they put a bait vehicle in the apartment, the Tula Vista apartments right there. And uh one morning uh I took the bait and uh long story short, got in a high-speed chase. They arrested me, and that's when I went, that's when I caught my first felony as a so you started right there.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Where did they catch you since it was a high speed chase improvement?

SPEAKER_04 38:50

I started on 51st Avenue in Maryland.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

And it ended on uh like 37th Avenue in Orangewood. Oh. Yeah, you got a few blocks. There's a school right there. Yeah, I know where you're talking about. Yep, and I I've jumped, and I had a girlfriend staying with me at the time, a different girlfriend, and uh, anyways, it was just a whole just a whole bunch of mess and dunk. And uh that's the first time I got arrested as an adult. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

And then Of course, then that starts it. And then you're correct, it's probation, probation violations.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

Exactly, catching new charges on probation. And so it was I went to jail at that time. So I guess I said when I answered earlier, 18 was it when I first went to prison, it's when I first went to jail as an adult. But it I went six months, eight months. So I had like eight months of my 18, 18, my my year 18, eight months of it was in county jail. Okay. Got out for a couple months, and then when I turned 19, they sent me away. I did three and a half years in prison.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Now, for a new offense, probation violation? Both. Okay. New offense, obviously, that then created a violation.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

And so three and a half years the first time. Correct.

SPEAKER_04 39:58

Got out when I was 22. Okay. Uh my mom is living in the house in Glendale at that by that time now.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

So it's you come back to the exact same neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 40:06

Same place, same neighborhood, yes, sir. That was that's that's home base. That's the only place I could go back. Really? Same old friends, same everybody, we're all just older, and now my mom's staying there with her boyfriend, and my sister Crystal is living with Raul's parents and Raul over on Bethany in 8083F. So uh, yep, same everything. You know, didn't and again, so in in in not all prison yards are the same. Um uh it's just to give a little content. Yeah. So you go minimum, medium, maximum security, and you have medium, max. So minimum, I I did it my first three and a half years was on a minimum yard, where it's it's it was and then you and so in Arizona, if you get sentenced to 20 years, or well, okay, not to get too far, it's 85%.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

You do 85% of your time.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

85% of your time in Arizona. It's called truth and sentencing law. So I did 85% of three and a half on top of eight months back time. So I only did uh about two years flat. And so then I got out, was out exactly a year to the day before I went back, and I did eight and a half that second time. You at 85%. Oh, okay, gotcha. So it was seven years, you know, seven years flat.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

Did you ever meet anybody that did you ever was there any services? Did you ever go to a service while you were in? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

So uh it wasn't until the the the second sentence crystal and raul got the Holy Ghost, repented. Okay during the second sentence, like so I get I was in there for for uh eight and a half, eight and a half year sentence, and towards towards the last uh three years of that sentence is when they got the Holy Ghost. Okay, and they changed and and I seen it, and that was the first time where I said, Okay, oh wow, something's different here. My mom is still a mess at the time, I'm still a mess at the time.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

But you genuinely saw a change.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

Correct. When she started, well, my sister's a little more sensitive too, but when she started like weeping and went outside when I when she seen my tattoos, you know, and and I so yes, that made a big impact, you know, uh uh on me at that time.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Because you knew something was different about her, because otherwise it would have done.

SPEAKER_04 42:12

Well, I I literally told myself, I'm like, oh great, I I can't believe it. I was telling telling people, and I got a crazy church lady for her sister. I was out at that, you know, that that's that's you know, like I was making fun of it, you know, pray Lord for that, you know. But uh yeah, I that's that's literally what I thought at that time. And then she would come towards the end and and she would send me, I would get CDs of of preaching. They would send me CDs. Well, towards like the last two years of that sentence, so it was a year, I could be off on the years, but it was still during that sentence. Where remember me and my mom used to sit at the seat of scorn and scorn her and oh this and that, well, if God that, you know, all the same the cliches, the same go-to moves that everybody used to try to denounce God and try to it was me and my mother. And then what really what really, really floored me was when my mom got the again, got ready, and she came in. And I'll never forget that visit where I'm going and I'm and I'm whoa. She just said it's real. So she had tears in her eyes, and she ain't looked back since. Uh and so that's that's when I started to put my guard down and try to and just just stuff just honestly, that's when I just stopped with the pride thing. I just stopped. I'm just like, enough's enough, dude. Like, yeah, start to open your heart, you know what I mean? It's just just let it go. And this is inside of myself because you still gotta have a you still can't show that outwardly. Correct. You gotta have a line in there because because it it they to they'll test it, and and unfortunately, there's certain things that you know, it's just the way it is in there. But uh that's when I started to, okay, read the Bible a little more. And it was towards like my last eight months. You know, the funny thing is, every is a lot of people want will go do a whole sentence and never try to find God until they're like, you know, two months to the gate. And it's oh, yeah, no, and then they go. Anywho, uh, that's when and I was starting the my last like six months, and I started, okay. I was laying on my bunk as I'm and one thing I did when I was in there, even in medicine, was I tried to absorb every bit of schooling they offered. Like I got my degrees in there, I got, I've got all kinds of, I I always try to try to try to just learn and be a sponge. That's something I've always done. And so, and it's I didn't know that a lot of that God was abusing, so that way it could translate to my to to godly habits and godly routine. Absolutely. And so that was the middle sense that and and I know we could I'm kind of taking the long route to short answer, but that's when I started to open my heart. Did you listen to the CDs? Yes, I did. Okay. I I didn't at first. They were in my box.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Was it Bishop Mosley? It was Bishop visiting preachers, it was Elder Morton.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

Uh um, but but Bishop for for the longest time, that was like the I would, I would, when I would read my Bible, I would hear his voice oh, with conviction and power. And that's what I needed. That's what I was searching for because that's I don't want to be told I'm okay. There's something, like I said, I have always had that inside of me where it's like, and I don't know if it's unique to anybody, it's probably not unique. You know, God, only God knows. But I was always putting that down where, hey, I, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to be told I'm okay. Yeah. I don't feel like I'm okay. I feel like I have to drink I have to choke out my conscience to go and be cool to the world and be something I'm not. So it was finally, finally, it was refreshing it. And it was just like, whoa, to hear truth. Because you know the truth when you hear it. And you know what? You may not like the truth, but you'll respect it. And that's just how I so I respected that truth. I was like, yes, this is finally, this is this is what I'm talking about. Because I don't want to be told that I'm okay the way I am. So that was the genesis of that. Of that, that was the second sentence. This last time, so remember I was out one year to the date. Exactly. Exactly exactly to the date. Nope. Now this time I was out exactly two years to the date. Uh met Eric's mom. So I went in this time while she was pregnant with Eric. Gotcha. And remember, I, you know, just a I come from a broken home. Always wanted my dad around, always needed a dad. Never felt like he was actually my real dad, even though he wasn't, you know, my blood. So there was always a part of me that's like, just wanted a family. I just want to be a dad. I want to be a good dad. And that was.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

So now you have an opportunity?

SPEAKER_04 46:27

Correct. And you're gone. And I'm going back. Yep. And I'm going back for a long time. I I I they were trying to give me 16 years this time. Now remember, I I have an idea. I have an idea of what something's different about about the this Holy Ghost. Where I I I'll never forget. I went in my cell, because I I get I go anyways, I go straight to a cell, I don't get to come out like everybody. I go straight to a cell, you know, and I have a cell, and I'm going there. I remember getting on my knees, and I just said, all right, God, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you every bit I got, you know, and I I cried, I wept, and I was thinking about my son, and and I did. And one thing that I was like, you know what, I don't want to, and I'm so grateful for. And it was the so it was Brother Copeland at Antioch. Man, his message about keeping the word in you, keeping the word in your heart, like that, that that's so true because I didn't, I was just like, you know what, this is I wanted to be, I don't just allow, okay, when I was a mess, like I wouldn't, not that it takes a lot to impress me, but I've I've been a lot, I've seen a lot, man. I've I've seen, I've been around a lot, I've seen a lot. So not to impress me, but in order for me to allow you to school me or to to, you know, not that I won't take something good or here and there, but for me to be totally, yes, sir, you know, or submit and allow you to just educate me, I I gotta hold you in higher regard. And again, the Lord's using that now for good, for, for, for his good now. So I I just said, you know what, God, okay, you're I'm just gonna stick straight to the word. I'm not gonna read no other book, right? Because I don't trust it. I wanted to do, I wanted to protect, protect that so much. You know, I I I kind of I felt I was like, you know what, I'm gonna save myself for for Faith Temple for Valley Pentecostal church, so to speak. But I just stuck to the word. I made, I said, I'm gonna give you all I got, God, and I'm gonna stick straight to your word, and I'm gonna, and and and God honors it.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

Now, were you talking to anybody? Did you have any communication with anybody that was in the church during all that?

SPEAKER_04 48:26

My mother. My my mother, my mother, my mother. So there's a lot of people in church who knew my name way before they knew my face. Correct. Uh, there was she faithfully praying, there's something about a praying mama. There's something about like anybody out there, like, don't stop praying. So I've been reading a lot, you know, and one of them is the is is you know, teachings of verbal being. I know it's probably not unique to anybody who's been in church, but but to me, it's it's it's gold and it's and it's I need it because it's putting things in order within my spirit, and I'm now I'm able to label and identify things. So he says that when you're praying, there's two types of prayer: communal prayer and current prayer. You know, communal prayer is basically a layway plan. You can you keep on you just keep on putting a deposit prayer and prayer, and you never know when that bill is gonna come up and get cast in. And so this was a long prayer for me. There's again, there's so I'm so grateful for all, and they know who they are, who's praying for you.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

But you did go into that with that intent.

SPEAKER_04 49:28

It was like Yes, this is time. This is my time. I'm going away.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

I've got a I've got a child coming. That's it. I can't do this again.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

Nope, I'm not gonna do this. I'm so guilty, I'm so miserable that I'm gonna I'm gonna die. If I if I don't, if I don't do something, like I won't, I can't do this. This is not fair to my son that's not even born. This is it. This is my moment. This is my moment. This because when you're young, you just you kind of you kind of rationalize things by saying, uh, I'll I'll get there someday.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Yeah, you're young, you'll that's right.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

I got plenty of time. And the next thing you know, you're three sentences into it, and it's like, well, I'm gonna, I'm uh, you know, you got my whole 20s is in there, most of my 30s are in there, and it's just like, wow, that's so and it and then it finally hits you where you get self-aware and and and you you know being a child is no longer an excuse anymore. So you got out at what age? This time? I was uh 38.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

Okay. And you had had you ever seen your son?

SPEAKER_04 50:30

Yes. My mom, my mom, my mom brought him as much as she could. She she were you here local? I was in I well, I've been in area I've been everywhere, but yes, I was in Buckeye.

SPEAKER_03 50:39

The last time you were okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

I was in Lewis, yes, Lewis complex. Okay. Uh and but before I was also in Saffur. You know, I have two sons, so uh they they made moving around a lot. But um, yeah, she would, she would, she would bring them. You know, uh Eric's mom came a few times, but you know, she's got her own issues, and and you know, it was it was myself that put it in there. But I went in there, I was not gonna come out the same. I was gonna give God my all and and not put God to the test, but I like to search for knowledge. Like, like if there's something out, I feel like I can figure anything out. Like it's like, yeah, I can figure it out. I may not be an expert, but I'll figure it out. And so I've had to figure it all out since I was young. I had to figure out everything. So I I would just stick straight to the word in there. My more I would, I would, I've I would read, I had a I had a routine, morning routine, prayer routine, middle of the day. I would read, read, read. I I it would take me my routine when I would stick to my chapters that I would allocate for the day. I I'd in one year I'd be able to read the Bible six times if I stuck to that. So I did that every year for for the seven years. And um I would fast with the church for prayer and fasting on January. So I didn't know, I didn't realize at the time, but for five years, my mom, Sister Rubio, and uh Papa Garrett, they were there, that was their team. They would go to the jails. Well, my mom said, as I'm talking to my mom and everything in jail, county jail still, uh, I got a visit from Papa Garrett. And I didn't know as much about it. I didn't, I I understand now more than I ever had who he was, and and you know, well, he just I'll never forget, he pulled, I got pulled out of my cell, went in the hallway, sat down at the bench, he asked me a couple questions, and then he just he's he's a all all we we didn't really talk too much about God. He just asked me a couple questions and then he's he pulled one scripture out. I said, It was John 3.5. And he asked me what that what does that mean to you? And I said, Well, that's water baptism, and then that's the Holy Ghost. He just looked at me, close the Bible, and then we just started talking about life. That was it. And and it wasn't that long, and then when I talked to my mom two days later, my my my mom she was you know kind of interior about all Papa Garrett did was call my mom and just said, He don't have Johash religion. That's what he said. Yeah, that was it. So it I don't know what, but it that stuck with me. That stuck with me because it's just more confirmation. It's just more confirmation, you know. Uh it's God's been working on me that entire time. I know sometimes it could appear that it's like an overnight success, or that I'm it's and I'm trying to discern between because everyone's oh the zeal, it's so cute, the zeal of a new convert, and you know, and and I and again, I'm just like, okay, yes, thank you so much. You know, but there's there's it's more it's more than that. It's so much more. I've I I feel like I want to explode inside sometimes. And so I'm just trying to discern between zeal, purpose, what you know, because I I understand that I'm not mine, I'm not my own. I was dead in the street. I literally was, I don't know if you remember when I limped into church. I was literally limping in, like I was I was left for dead. I don't know if there were angels that picked me up because I don't remember. I was half in the unconscious. I don't know who they were, but these people found me in the street, took me home, took my idea, and and that was it. Never seen them since.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

This was right before you came. Yes, sir. This is when I finally when you got out this last time.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Correct. And so I went through the whole time, the whole seven years on a mission, giving God my best, did it, can can sit here confidently before the Lord and said I gave it, did it all as much as I could do without having the Holy Ghost, and but no, it was God working on me. So I get out, I was expecting Eric's mom, I was expecting to be a family. I was preparing to be a family. Okay, so when you go, when you get when you go away, it's like, so if I was like removed from you right now, yeah, and I don't see you for five, six, seven or seven years or something, right? My memory of you is gonna be what it is right now. You don't correct it. If I have minimal contact with you, I don't get to see the progression or regression or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Don't even know what's going on in Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 54:43

It's a time capsule. My mind's a time capsule. So other people move on, but I didn't. And so I it was so and I'm not making excuses. No, I didn't give God a chance. When I got out this time, I didn't give God a chance. And and I allowed the cares of the world and what I thought and what this and everything else to to consume.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

It wasn't happening like you thought it should be happening.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

Correct. Well, like I had envisioned it, correct.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

I I thought I I'm gonna this is gonna be a family, it's gonna my kid, this is all gonna be great.

SPEAKER_04 55:08

And I never thought that she would fall out of love with me. And I'm being very vulnerable right now, but that's okay. I never I just never thought that. I always thought, you know what, it's it's this is done. It's it yeah, but she'll be there when I'm done. Correct. And she did what she did, had another kid, that's the little red-headed mason. But I I in my mind, it was like, okay, I'm still gonna, you know, I have I have unfinished business. I was thinking in my mind, you know, and and and that's probably just pride. And it was pride because pride is my biggest issue, no surprise to anybody, pride to be an issue. So I got out this last time after giving all fell back. Okay, so beautiful pastors preaching. I try to absorb so much uh of a hoary head that's beyond to righteousness and the man of God of preaching because and that that's so he talked about reset point where we go when when life hits us, something happens. Some people, it was drugs, some people, and now you I'm learning my reset points to alter because that's you know, anywho. So my reset point at that time was back to drugs. Yeah, and I was trying to find ways to connect with her, and so I was taking steps backwards, going against an attempt to connect. Correct. And I'm not justifying anything or putting it on her. That's totally my choice, and it's totally on me. And and that's that's and that's what happened with that. And so I'm back to the same old me again. After all those years I did going so God used me so God was preparing, and now, well, now I see it, but God had done so much for me in there. It I was I was God was getting a lot of glory in there, just put it that way. You know, there people would ask me, why aren't you going? Why don't you want to go to my service? Uh you know, there's guys holding services and they're like, Why don't you and then I'd be like, Oh no, it's you know, I like to just stick to the Bible. I like to, well, this, this, and that, and the other. But in my mind, I'm like, because, dude, you're going and smoking cigarettes. Like, I don't know I don't even like this doesn't eat this doesn't it doesn't make any sense. It's like an oxymoron or something. Like, yeah, I'm like, no, no, thank you. And so I offended a lot of people, but I didn't care. You know, I had a lot more boldness. Not not more, not that I don't now. It's just I had done a lot of time in there, so I know how to draw a line with things, and I was drawing a line for the Lord, and in and and that's also what I was so guilty and convicted about was because I know I was making such bad choices, and then that that truth that was inside of me from the revelations, from everything God did for me in there was literally driving me to want to want to kill myself to where I didn't care if I died. I was drowning alcohol, drowned.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Just after you got out.

SPEAKER_04 57:30

Correct. This time right before I came into church, limping in that day.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

And so how what was that space of time? So from the time you got out to the time you came to church? Months?

SPEAKER_04 57:39

So I got out February 28th, okay, 2024. Okay. So I've been out two years in change. Actually, two years in, it's almost two and a half years now. But I've been in church since January. Got the Holy Ghost in February.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

Okay. So, okay, so it was a year or so.

SPEAKER_04 57:57

Year and change, two years. I was working for Layton construction, making big money. Yeah. Couldn't, and it was just all that was that pride, it was totally pride, thank you, Lord. Was I I'm I'm getting how dare her not like me. Look at her boyfriend. He's this, he's that, you know, he's a dirt. So it was just, it was that cycle of of I got this.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

You know, it was just really got you. That hurt you. And you were not ready for that.

SPEAKER_04 58:21

No, I never expected her to fall. I never when you can tell and you look at somebody, they like they don't have feelings for you. And it's like, when you live, and and like when I went into prison, we had, we were, we were, you know, Eric was planned, you know, like it wasn't an act, it was we were together. It was so it was I was taken from that. And and and once you realize that that look in her eye isn't there no more, and it's just it was just it was uh uh, you know, and here I was ready to lead, and she's gonna submit and follow me, and I'm gonna show her how to live for God, you know, and see, I see all those sentences, all me, me, me, I, I, I, all pride, pride, pride.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

There was no relationship with your son, obviously. Not much. Okay. And you've been out a year and a half, two years or so now. Um, clearly, for a year or so of it, you weren't in the best shape. You weren't the best example. And it was a little rough. Yes, sir. When when it finally became okay, this is what I need to do. I need to bring him in. I need to start. It was rough, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_04 59:24

Yes, sir. Uh so he my mom would bring him faithfully as much as she could. And I'll never forget the visitation where he's just he's like kicking the dirt and he looks down and he's like, You're my dad, huh? You know, and that was that was uh uh getcha. Oh yeah. And and so he was there the day I got released. He was with me. He trusted me because we had talked about it. We had talked about God, like, hey, we're gonna do this, son. This is the way it's gonna be. And you know, and God gave me the prize, and you see, I overlooked that at the time. I was so trying to look at something else, and I didn't even realize the blessing I had on me. Yeah, and it was him, and it was him, and it was him, and so I had him he it was his choice to stay with me and through the mess, he chose to want to go back with his mom. Sure. And I got him on uh once consistency started happening at the home, and I made it clear we're going to church, this is what it is. You know, I had him for spring break last year, and he never came back, he's never gone back with his mom since. And that was his choice. And so Well, he sees the change. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

There's consistency and not just consistency, there's a real change in you. It has made a change in him. Yes, sir. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the nitrate of the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:48

I was on a Harley one night drinking. So I I was I was just I was in that I didn't care. Don't care what happened. Don't know what happened. I just woke up, I remember, well, coming to conscience, uh, it was like 1 a.m. I just remember people were carrying me in a car. Excuse me. And then had you had a motorcycle accident? There was no road rash, don't any no nothing. I I don't know what happened. He they got so uh this finger severed extender tendon, uh my knee was was busted, my face was all busted up. I don't know, I still don't know what happened. Please don't know what happened. They think I was I was robbed or or something. So the bike's missing too.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

Oh, okay, yeah, so maybe so.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

Yeah, so but I was just out causing ruckus at night and now how did you avoid not going back for that? To prison God's grace and mercy?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:46

Because it could have, right? So okay, so No, no, you're just now, and I'm thinking about this police being involved, and I'm like, wait a minute, how come you didn't go back for that?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:57

So, okay, I'll I'll I'll I'll get to that. That's right, that's right. It's because God said not this time. That's that's honest, that's God said not this time. And so I snap out, I that was the day that was when I said okay, enough's enough. I was in the uh hospital, I can't my foot was I was just a mess. You're not that mess. I was a mess. And so I'm getting I'm getting my strength back. I'm and I'm I'm reading the word and and uh I made a vow to God in there in prison. I made a vow. I made that vow I just spoke about with Eric and I read it, it was Psalm 51. It hit me still like a ton of bricks. I was reading it to my mom because I'm um my mom's starting to come back a little bit more because I was just in a you know life, you know, life or death situation. So all our qualms was, you know, cast aside because of because of that. But and I just was reading it and I just said, you know what? I'm like he said, keep thy vows. Keep thy vows. That's I I'm not gonna repeat it, but it was Psalm 51, keep thy vows. I just and it was on a I don't know if it was a Tuesday night or if it was a Sunday night. But it was obviously one of them, because that's when I went and lived in the church. I walked, I went and walked, I just said, I'm out of here. My mom was like, huh? I was reading the Bible to her, and I just looked up out of it. I was like, you know what to do. I go, like, you know what to do. So that's when I went and I went in church, and that's when I limped in the church, and I started going. Bishop Bishop walked by. I was in the very back. He's like I said, he's known, he's known my family. He knows he looked at me and he says, Boy, you look like a the world's done chewed to uh a wet rag, done been thrown around or something. You know how bishop has words like that. So basically the world's been the world's beat you up, look at you. And uh so I I started going uh more and more, and then Brother Williams, elder brother Williams that's when I first met Brother Alexander, I was at the altar and you know, started doing Bible study with with uh with Brother um Alexander and to touch on that earlier um about not going back, which has been the same cycle for me. I got a call from a detective. Uh I had been I was broken already, I've been seeking God. Okay, you weren't you didn't have the Holy Ghost yet. No, sir. But you got a call from detective. Right. I was going to church. I've been started going back to church. Yeah, okay. I was already my mind, I've been sober. I was like, I'm going, this is what I'm doing. And uh you know, I had that conversation. I remembered, and that was that was that last little so I made my mind. It was I I I went and was weeping, like just wailing on Brother Alexander's shoulder. Because we had been doing Bible study up to that point, and I was making progress, and and again, and you know, Brother Alexander, just the the way that he is, just to then, you know, that's the damn whatever the whatever, you know, and I was ready at that moment. I I made that choice. I told God, I said, you know what? If that's your choice for me, God, don't send me back without the Holy Ghost. I don't care. Just don't send me back without the Holy Ghost. I don't care. And that that's that was my prayer at the time. I was like, you know what, if that's your if that's what it is, I wasn't trying to fight it. I was just like, Yeah, just I don't know what's gonna happen. So I but I can't not have the Holy Ghost. And so I fasted that week. All that week until I got the Holy Ghost. And on prayer on Saturday, I walk outside and Bishop's out there talking to I think his brother, sister Hawk, shook my hand and handed me money in it. He said, You look hungry. So you need to put some meat on the boards. Why don't you go get yourself a hamburger? And I I you know I I didn't want to sound rebellious, uh, so I was just like, uh uh uh yes, yes sir, yes sir. And then he started to walk in the inside the sanctuary, and I go, Tom tomorrow night, tomorrow night, I'll he goes, I got it, and I was just like and he went in. And I was just like, and I and my mom knew what I was doing. She was the only one. And I went and told her, I was like, Do you think he knew? She's like, Absolutely, he knew. Fast forward to Sunday, it was pastor preached in the morning service. I I was just crying the whole service because it was it was about reset point, it was about drugs, it was just it was anyway, that was just a mess, that whole morning service. And then Bishop preached the evening service, and I got the Holy Ghost that night. So what did the detective say?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

Was that it? One call from a detective and it went away.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:30

It was it was uh it was one call. That was it. That was it. It went away. And and it ain't and and I just talked to my probation officer this morning. I remember I've been on probation since I was 11 years old. Yeah. Um they j the judge, she submitted my case because I still have another year and change on probation. I've never completed probation. I've always gone on the run, always said nope, catch me if you can, sort of thing. She submitted my paperwork to get me off probation. The judge signed it already. I'll be off August 1st. I knew that there in there, there's a lot of prison politics. I ran with Mexicans in there, Mexican mafia, okay. So, long story short, they wanted to kill me. It doesn't matter why they had a hate eye on me. I I I'll I put that's the first time I ever said, you know what, God? I used to pray every day before I even knew anything, even before it was literally right when my sister Crystal was starting to get into church. And so I started to pray more and I seen the change. But I I I I literally like said, I'm gonna try, I trust you, God. I'm not even gonna leave. I'm not gonna do it. Because you can roll up if someone wants to get you, you go tell like hi, I'm not safe here, and then they'll take you. Well, I used to just pray every day, God, God, I trust you. Whatever happens, happens. And I literally left, and so I used to quit, and that was the purpose of that, of that. I believe that was the purpose of that detective call. Because I used to tell myself, like, man, if I was ever put in that position, I don't know if I could trust trust God again like that. Well, I was put in that position again. And I believe it was to remind me, like, hey, yes, you can, just like you're saying, where you actually trust God with your very life or your very freedom. Yes, when I had more time on my hands, I and I was just I would go and vacuum the sanctuary a lot, and and the lessons God would give through just through this carpet, and and you just realize it's like, no, no, no, no. I God's giving me valuable lessons by going and vacuuming and vacuuming the sanctuary. And you begin to realize and you see the tears on the altar, and you you just start it, it hits you like wow. Like, I'm tending to God's altars.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

Like, that's that's two years ago, three years ago, you were in a prison cell.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:32

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:33

And now I'm vacuuming the house of the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:37

Tending to his altars, doing whatever he needs me to do, and and And could be anywhere else, but that's where you chose to be. Yes, sir. Well, and and the even the bigger thing, which was my biggest enemy, was pride. I wouldn't have pride would have stopped that. And that's a shame because it's like, man, how many blessings have I pride would have brought to pride? Correct. Like, I'm not vacuuming, like and you know, and and that's man, that's not how God like, ooh, lay it down. And and and there's I'm telling you, there's some lessons in there. I could write a little book about all the lessons from the carpet that God is.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

You've been listening to the Paths to Glory Podcast. To contact us, send your emails to Paths to Glory Podcast at gmail.com. We all travel different paths, so it's important that we remember Proverbs 3, 5 through 6. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto your own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Our paths to glory. Thank you for joining us.