The Spiritual Shitshow with Suzanne Sole
*The Spiritual Shitshow with Suzanne Sole podcast is on summer hiatus until 9/1/26. See you in September!
The Spiritual Shitshow with Suzanne Sole is a 2025 Signal Awards gold winner in Religion & Spirituality and bronze in Comedians Shaping Culture — and also a People’s Choice Podcast Awards finalist in Religion & Spirituality.
Hosted by actor, comedian, and spiritual seeker Suzanne Sole, this show dives into the absolute mess of healing and awakening with equal parts depth and LOLs.
Suzanne has been walking the spiritual path for over 25 years. She’s kicked addiction, escaped abuse, and keeps it growing — spiritually, emotionally, and in and her collection of voice memos. She brings all of that wisdom (and a lot of one-liners) into every episode.
Expect solo riffs full of insight and irreverence, plus special guest episodes with therapists, ministers, artists, and other humans who have also survived the shitshow and lived to tell the tale.
We’re talking the spiritual journey. We’re talking sobriety and recovery. We’re talking spiritual teachings, off-the-wall hilarity, and deeply vulnerable moments you can actually relate to — so you can laugh, nod, cry a little if you need to, and know you are not alone in your journey.
Linktree: linktr.ee/suzannesole
Official Website: suzannesole.com
For more thoughts and feelings subscribe to Suzanne’s Substack: https://open.substack.com/pub/suzannesole
Thank you for listening!
The Spiritual Shitshow with Suzanne Sole
The Illusion of Control: Now You See It. Now You Don't
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
"If I could just explain it one more time. Or differently. Or louder. Or with a PowerPoint presentation... have one more conversation, or somehow convince them to see what I see... then I could finally relax."
Sound familiar? How'd that work out?
In the first installment of The Illusion of Control: Now You See It. Now You Don't, Suzanne explores the illusion of control through one of its most common expressions: trying to change the people around us.
She shares what she's learned about the illusion of control, why we mistake it for safety, and why letting go isn't giving up, it's getting your life back.
Thank you for listening! Learn more at suzannsole.com
Check out Suzanne's spiritual and sassy t-shirts at personallyspiritual.com
But the reality is, is that it's our feeling of control that we're feeling out of control of. What? Please say that again. It's feeling out of control that is making us nervous or making us anxious. And that comes from the belief that we should be in control. And so if we're not, it feels like crazy or terrifying. But the reality is that we don't. You're listening to the Spiritual Shit Show Podcast with Suzanne Sowell, episode 88. Hello, you stunning motherfuckers, and welcome to the Spiritual Shit Show Podcast, where we get into the cremazingness the healing and spiritual journey can be. I'm your host, Suzanne Sol, comedian, lifelong spiritual student, and I'm sharing some of the wildastic stuff I've learned along my journey that has helped me and that I hope helps you too. In this episode, we're talking about the illusion of control. That's right. It's an illusion. Like we think we have control or we think we're trying to get control, but whether we have it or we're trying to get it, it's an illusion. Sometimes we think we've got it in the bag. And then sometimes we're like, what happened? I love using the word illusion because we can refer also to that magic trick. Now you see it, now you don't. Because that's like what it is. One minute we feel like we've got our life completely under control. We feel like it. It's the illusion that we do, and that everything is going exactly the way we planned, or those people see us exactly the way we want them to see us, or our day goes exactly as we wanted it to be, or that person does what we need them to do for us. And then something happens and it all falls apart. That person is not showing up the way we need them to. No matter how many times we've explained to them what we need, no matter how much we've prepared, our day takes a left and keeps going. I found a quote by Lebanese American writer Khalil Jabron from like the late 1800s to the early 1900s, he was around. And I felt like what he had written really encapsulated this idea. And it is, our anxiety does not come from thinking about the future, but from wanting to control it. I mean. And it's like, why do we try to control? Well, you know, all those psychologists and therapists say we try to control because of our instinct to survive in the world. And sometimes the world feels like it is just absolute chaos. And we're trying to create an environment for ourselves that feels safe. But it's an illusion because we actually don't have control. You know, I think a lot of times it's so easy to get into that place where you're like, oh my gosh, I feel like everything is so out of control. I'm having a fucking panic attack. Yeah, I've totally been there. But the reality is, is that it's our feeling of control that we're feeling out of control of. What? Please say that again. It's feeling out of control that is making us nervous or making us anxious. And that comes from the belief that we should be in control. And so if we're not, it feels like crazy or terrifying. But the reality is that we don't. We're mistaking certainty for safety. So what does it mean to feel safe? Like, you know, like in our everyday life? I'm not talking about like if we were at war or someone's chasing you or you've been kidnapped. That's totally different. We're talking about the psychological and emotional feeling of safety. Because most of the time that's what we're after, right? In our regular everyday life. We're not like, oh my God, I'm gonna get hit by a car. I better not move because I'm just feeling unsafe. No, you're unsafe. You gotta move. If I take this selfie at the edge of a cliff, I'm just feeling unsafe. No, you're unsafe. That's physical safety, and that is something we need to be mindful of. Uh, I'm talking about emotional and psychological safety. So this idea that we need to control the moving parts around us. We'll start with that part, and then we'll go. We'll go to her. We'll go to the, we'll go to ourselves. But this idea that we need to uh have control of the moving parts around us, the other people, the way uh something turns out. And it's like, where does that come from, right? So I think it is the idea of an expectant outcome or a believed need. Okay. So it's like, so there's someone in our lives, and I'm not saying like, you know, being in relationships is just, you know, the other person doesn't have to be or do anything for us, but here's the difference that I'm saying. If someone is a safe person for us, they are a safe person. And if they're not, we're not gonna make them that. Right? I mean, can we talk about the decades that I myself in relationships tried to guide, if you will, aka control, aka make another person show up the way I needed them to. And here I am. They're not here, any of them. So moral of the story is it doesn't work. So here we are, you know, I'm not saying don't tell people what you need or how you feel, because someone who wants to be there for you will take that information in and use it to be there for you, to be who you need them to be as much as they possibly can, you know, without losing themselves. We don't want to put people in a position where it's like, I need you to be this person to me so much that I need you to stop being you. So we don't want to be asking people to do that. We don't want anyone to ask us to do that. But the difference is that if there is someone in our lives that we're like, I need this person to be this way with me and provide me with these feelings and be a safe person, et cetera, et cetera. And we're keep trying to get to them. We keep trying to make them understand, to make them understand what we need and that they're not giving it to us, right? We're trying to control, we're trying to control the environment in those moments where like I've decided that you are the person that I require to play this role in my life and be this person or play this character in the story of Suzanne, and you're not playing your part. So I'm gonna give you the script again, and I hope you'll be off book at least by tomorrow. So when we're doing that, we are using our precious energy and time from our precious lives to make an apple into an orange. And we think trying to control the situation is really what we need when in fact it is absolutely not what we need. I'm here to tell you, I spent years with people not understanding that they just weren't equipped to give me what I what I needed, or they just weren't that type of person, or that's not what they wanted. And I just wouldn't let it go. I just couldn't let it go. I drove myself and them crazy. And in the end, I walked away, or they walked away, because I I, you know, you can't control someone into being someone that they're not. So that's something we want to be mindful of, right? Another part of this is sometimes we feel like we'll feel safer if we can guarantee the outcome of something, which means whatever we do to try to make sure this thing happens. Now, I'm not saying not to have goals and desires and try to make stuff happen, like, you know, like in my life, I really want to, you know, fulfill this. That's great. And I think it's important to leave room for life to be lifing. Because I don't think life is trying to get us to predict. It's trying to get us to participate, right? So it's like a dance between us and life, us and spirit, us and God, us and the divine intelligence, us in life, whatever you want to call it. It's this dance, right? Because it's a we're we're not here in a cardboard box with just like the air made of like inanimate, uh, non-living. There's there's life all around us, is what I'm trying to say. There's life all around us, and there's energy, and there's spirit and soul, and and it's like we're in a dance with that. We're in a dance with everyone on this planet. And so, how possibly could we just be like bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, checkmate? Okay, that's it. That's not the way it goes. And I said this in the podcast about forging your own path. Alan Watts said, if you knew the way the game was going to end, what would be the point of playing it? And I get it. It's scary. It's scary to be like, I'm just gonna allow life to be. I'm just gonna let it flow. I'm just gonna, you know, I'm not gonna try to control it. Oh, MG, let me tell you something. That is a process, right? It is such a process to try to learn to let go. You're like, oops, I was oops, I'm doing it again. Okay, I'm doing it again. You know, we have to be gentle with ourselves. We can't control the process of getting ourselves not to control, is what I'm saying. And so then we talk about our environments, right? Okay, so say you're in a toxic work environment. Okay, and I have had this experience. And for so very long, you know, because my trauma was triggered by this experience. And so I, it's like a lot of times you don't even realize you're trying to control. That's half the battle, is getting to the point where you're like, oh my gosh, I'm totally trying to control this because you feel it lacking in yourself. You feel powerless in this area. So here I was in this very toxic environment, and my focus started to be on how could I get the people around me to stop being toxic or to stop competing or to stop trying to sabotage or to stop being cruel or to stop bullying. And, you know, I mean, of course, we do not want to be in environments like that, right? But my job was to leave. But in that moment, I just didn't believe in myself enough to do so. And I didn't see this toxic work environment as like a situation that was like, this is terrible, you need to leave. I believed so deeply that it was my fault it was like that. Or and and then thusly, because I blamed myself for it and I thought it was my fault, that's when I started to try to control everyone else and didn't even realize I was doing that, or at least try to control how they perceived me. How could I change? How could I be different so that they would be different with me? But the problem is, is they were being themselves. That's who they were. And I just didn't get it. You know, if you come from an experience where you have a lot of self-blame and you really battled with self-hatred or still do, you are like a prime candidate for trying to uh control or manage, which basically is the same thing. Uh, an environment because you feel like it's your fault. I mean, that sounds kind of counterintuitive, right? You're like, it's my fault that this is all happening, so I need to manage all of them. But you don't realize that's what you're doing. What you think you're doing is trying to solve the problem that you feel like you created. If you're someone who's really hard on yourself, you're going to try to communicate differently, or you're going to try to explain yourself, or you're going to try to um, you know, get have a how many times I tried to have like heart to hearts. Not that heart to hearts are bad, they're good. But you have to know that, you know, there's places where you're going to want to have a heart to heart that you're not going to get anywhere. And once you recognize that, or at least once you experience it, you you kind of have to let it go. You know, it's called trying to get milk from the hardware store. And, you know, I don't like to judge people or just kind of like, you know, X them out and be like, that's who they are, blah, blah, blah. But I think sometimes you need to just allow it to be, even if it doesn't make you feel safe, right? So here I am, I'm in this toxic work environment. I'm working with this person who is not a safe person for me. I don't trust this person. I have experienced this person trying to uh sabotage my experience at work, et cetera, et cetera, out of competitiveness or whatever it is. And I mean, my, you know, my hairs on the back of my neck are up. I'm terrified. So what do I do? I just like I'm I roll, I ruminate, I ruminate. What am I ruminating for? I'm trying to figure out how to how to control the situation, how to control my environment that I'm in with other people. Right? I'm trying to figure out how to control an environment in which I am in to make me feel safer rather than recognizing that it's a toxic environment. And if you're anything like me, which I suspect a lot of you are, it kind of takes a while before you're like, this is none of this is working. None of my control tactics have taken seed, have taken root. And it's like at the end of the day, you you end up walking away anyway. I mean, seriously, it's just hilarious. And I'm not trying to like, you know, come down on all us. We're human, we're fumbling, we're so lovable. I love us. You know, and but it's just, um, I'm just trying to share this. Like our urge, our desire, our need, our feel our need to try to control is so stealth that sometimes we don't even realize that's what we're doing. But when we get rid of all the details and take all the details away, and like, what's the structure we're trying to control? We're trying to control our environment. We're trying to control ourselves. We'll get into that. We're trying to control how other people are treating us. Oh, MMG. What a valiant attempt to try to get people to treat you better. It really is. And I'm not putting that down in any way. I think that you should advocate for yourself. I think that you should uh say, hey, this is hurting my feelings, et cetera, et cetera. But there's a point at which you realize that the person is either going to hear you or they're not. And once they're not, it's really easy to slip into control thinking, into management thinking, you know, because we don't like to give up on people. And and I'm not saying like we give up on them, like, you know, in the greatest existential way there is. Sometimes we just have to allow reality to be what it is. And I say this, I've said this before, and it's a quote that I actually heard from a spiritual teacher named Ganga G. And she said, Allow life to break your heart. Open. And it does. That is my experience. And I've shared this before. The times where I have let people be themselves and writhed in the pain that it caused me. Because I have. It grew me more than anything ever, ever, ever, ever, ever has. And so when we're in those environments, I'm gonna go back to the toxic work environment because a lot of people we're a lot of us are in those. And obviously, we can't just walk out the door because we have to find something else to pay our bills and etc. etc. But how much energy are we putting into that as opposed to let me say it like this I was so stuck in the idea that it was me, that it was toxic because of who I am, that made me afraid to just take care of myself and just get out there in a bigger way than I was. I just, my lack of confidence, my lack of trust in myself. That's another piece of this. When you're in an environment where people are mistreating you or you're being bullied, it is so easy to believe that you don't know how to put yourself in healthy environments. It's your fault that these people are behaving the way they are. It's your fault that they're being mean to you, you don't know how to take care of yourself. I don't know about you, but those are the thoughts that I had. And eventually I got to the point where I was like, I have got to face in me what I'm thinking. And every time I put my energy into being so fucking mad about how that person is behaving, and I'm doing it over and over and over again. It's like I'm not accepting that that is their choice of behavior. Who they are choosing to be. I am trying to control the environment, even if it's like super subtle way. I need to solve this toxic environment to prove that I'm worth it. And it's like when we put our well-being out there like that, that's what we end up spending our precious time and energy on. And we all do it. Don't beat yourself up if you've done it. It's part of the human experiment. It's part of being a human being, it's part of the human journey, it's part of learning is to fuck up and uh and learn along the way and learn from our experiences. And, you know, every time I have ever said, okay, you know, and and some situations are harder than others to do this. Like if someone's really invasive, if someone's really has poor boundaries. You know, I had a coworker who had terrible boundaries, and this person used to like get to me. Why? Why? Because they were getting in through their disrespect of boundaries. That's how bullies operate. And manipulators, you know, and I'm sorry, I'm not trying to label people, you know, we all have our problems, we all have our foibles. I'm sure I've manipulated without realizing it or meaning to many, many times, you know. Uh, I try to be conscious though now to, I mean, when we're trying to control, I guess we are manipulating. But we just we don't mean it. We're just doing it. But anyway, when we become when we can become uh self-aware, when we can start turning inward, this is when we can get out of the manipulation game. This is when we can get out of the control game. And so I was so triggered that I couldn't stop wanting to be like, stop, stop, stay over there. Instead of saying, this is a really challenging and incredible opportunity to see what is this person triggering, because it's obviously something very challenging, a really difficult feeling, a really deep wound, a deep injury, a trauma trigger. And, you know, you kind of have to like say, okay, I'm gonna do this, and maybe go in steps, maybe be like, okay, today I'm not gonna get in, you know, why are they doing this and what are they doing? I'm going to say, okay, I'm aware of the fact that uh they are doing this and I want them to stop. But I'm gonna try to take a breath and I'm gonna say, okay, how am I feeling right now? And this is how we get out of the control business going inward. Oh, I know. Oh God, why don't you just tell me to shovel shit in a hundred-degree weather in Daisy Dukes in a bikini? I don't know why that was the scenario. There is a really, really cool spiritual teacher whose name is Byron Katie, and I will do a whole uh episode on her because she's incredible and she has this process called the work, which is a super cool process, but she has an incredible quote on control, and I'm gonna read it. If you want real control, drop the illusion of control. Fuck. Let life have you. It does anyway. You're just telling yourself the story of how it doesn't.
unknownMotherfucker.
SPEAKER_00Motherfucker. I mean I'm gonna read that one more time because it is mind-blowing. If you want real control, drop the illusion of control. Let life have you. It does anyway. You're just telling yourself the story that it doesn't. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. OMG. I mean, it's the illusion of control. We don't have control over life around us. We don't have control over the other people. We don't have control if we're going to get the job or we're not going to get the job. We don't have control over whether this day is gonna go great or not. It's the illusion. I mean, it's kind of like crazy to think about. Controlling other motherfuckers is really exhausting. So let's let it go and try to just love ourselves all the way up. Join me next time as we continue this series on the illusion of control. Anyways, this has been the Spiritual Shit Show Podcast. My name is Suzanne Soul, and I will see you on the next one. Roll it.