Maybe Your Trauma is Hot (w/Carolyn Lovewell)

We're about to take radical acceptance to a whole new level. Brendan talks with the amazing and magical, Dr. Carolyn Lovewell, author of Existential Kink: Unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power. 

They dive right into:

• How you actually can get off on the things that are bothering you the most. 
• Why the soul is round. 
• Carolyn's wild journey to discovering Existential Kink, even as cups were thrown at her head. 
• Why we're always manifesting the unconscious.
• The only women in pop culture history who got everything she wanted. 
•  And why EK just might put organized religion out of business. 

RESOURCES
Carolyn Lovewell
Existential Kink: Unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power
The Immortal College
The Most Liberated Woman in the World

Transcript

Okay guys, I have some really bad news, and that news is I've officially reached the age where I think birds are interesting. 

I don't know what happens. I think you just, like, once you turn 40, you're like, Ooh, what kind of Robin is that? It's not real fun. I mean, it's, it's not, let's just be honest, you know, you never see somebody at a party that's like having real fun, you know, having like the best conversation ever and someone's like, actually.

What you're saying is that's an old world Sparrow, not a new world. Yeah. I don't know what happens, guys, but this is how woodworking starts for me. So watch out. Welcome everybody to a brand new episode of Spiritual Asshole. I am your host, Brendan Fitzgibbons. I'm joined as always by will be T Fitzgibbons, who I've switched his food to, farmer's dog.

Which it's amazing. He's way happier. And this podcast is not sponsored by Farmer's Dog, but if you would like to sponsor a Farmer's dog, you can. 'cause it's a little expensive. He eats better than me. Alright, we're gonna keep this Short, because today's guest is incredible and I want to give a shout out to Mimi and [00:01:00] Natasha who told me about this guest.

Her name is Carolyn Lovewell. She's the author of Existential Kink. Unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power, A Method for getting what you Want by Getting Off on What You Don't, fuck You, Disney Plus. So basically, I'll just quickly summarize what I think this is and it's. I'm not gonna lie guys. I was absolutely resistant to this work at first, and then I'm just kinda like, why not?

But it's basically the idea that not only is there a part of you that actually likes the quote patterns and struggles that are going on in your life that seems like you can't break. There's a part of you that's actually getting off on them. Right. So when we dive deeper into this episode and what Carolyn has to say, it's not just you, it's your unconscious and her entire thing, which I think is, is amazing.

And I'll talk about what my favorite thing she said, or one of them that's been sticking with me a lot is basically like, you know, we're all out here being like. I have a vision board, I'll manifest what I see. I really want this IKEA table 'cause my [00:02:00] vision board's basic as fuck. that is one way to that that is absolutely happening.

But also what's simultaneously happening is you are manifesting your unconscious. And the unconscious is often what's actually running the show. Heads up y'all. So that's where like this work and all the deep work I've been doing with Joe Dispenza. I'm kind of obsessed with because it's the program that's running everything, you know, to use Jens, and she's an analogy.

It's like having a dead skunk in your basement. And then every day you get up and you spray the finest cleaning supplies and the finest air fresheners in your house. But it doesn't change the fact that you got dead fucking skunk in your house. And Carolyn would say that that's not even a dead skunk.

She'd say That's a hot dead skunk, and you should embrace it. Which I love. What's crazy is, as I was editing this episode, all of life is a mirror. I get a text from one of my best friends, Matt, and he's like, Hey, I really liked David, Goggins post about the most recent episode of White Lotus. I didn't see this post, but I love Goggins, and he just said, the boogeyman has nowhere to [00:03:00] hide if we open all the doors.

And so the point of Carolyn's work is to not only open the doors. But have sex with them. it's something to think about guys. 'cause I feel like, and I used to be so much like this, resistant to all the parts of myself that I don't love. But what's the worst thing that's gonna happen if you love them?

What's the worst thing that's gonna happen if you bring them out to the party? What do you think? And will it be that much worse than the reality you're already manifesting by saying that? And I get why it's tricky. 'cause people are always like, watch your words. Watch your words. So I get why it's, I get why it's a little scary, but like, why not?

You know, it's, and then eventually you won't have to keep saying it 'cause it'll just be liberated. I, I do believe that. so much has been happening with me. I spent. I went to a Joe Dispenza, progressive retreat in, in Los Angeles. It was amazing. I wanna do a whole episode on that 'cause I still like, can't believe it.

And I also am going to see, do a week long with him in Dallas. So, holy shit, I'm about to be a, I'm about to be a full-blown [00:04:00] alien. abundant alien. in the meantime, I wanna just leave you guys. I recorded this recently when I was on hike and it sort of sums up some of the thoughts I've been having about.

You know who you are and identity and watching severance and thinking about this. So here it is. [00:05:00] [00:06:00] [00:07:00] 

Yeah, guys, I almost fell over like four rocks doing that. So it was, it was worth it. Alright, we're gonna get this episode going 'cause I love it so much and I'm excited to talk to you afterwards about my favorite part.

Here she is, Carolyn Lovewell. 


all right, everybody. Welcome to a brand new, incredible special episode of Spiritual Asshole. I am joined by Dr. Carolyn Lovewell. She's an amazing coach, author of Existential Kink, unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power. Carolyn, how are you doing? So wonderful. Just delightful. Yeah, you sound delightful.

So you basically argue that it's best for us to get off on our deepest flaws, almost even celebrate and welcome them. But doesn't that just describe the Republican National Convention Um, yeah, well they seem to be having a lot of success lately. That's a really good point. That's a really, really good point.

So how did you get to this place? Like I [00:08:00] listened to some podcasts, I read your book. How did you discover this? 'cause it's such a unconventional, pretty awesome. Like mentality. Yeah. Well, um, a few different layers to it. I was in a sex cult called One Taste. Oh yeah. I was on of it. I wasn't like guilty of the felonies that they were involved with.

Uh,

but yeah, it was a, it was a cult devoted to clitoral stroking. So I was really behind that. I was really.


Yeah, you're in Southern California. I think it's, it's starting up again There. You can go, you can get in on that cult today. All right. Yeah. I gotta, I gotta do a quick Google. Hold on. Hold up. I gotta find out where it's, you could stroke ladies clitoris, all the live long day. But yeah, I was in that cult and

I was broke and I was miserable, but I was getting my cl, my clitoris stroked for like two hours a day. So I had good things going, but. [00:09:00] Within that context, uh, I was like thinking about how miserable I was and I noticed that actually I was really turned on by how much I was struggling. Like I would think about like, no, wow, nobody's paying me anything.

Like I was trying to be a coach then. I was trying to be a creativity coach. I had a, a book on creativity published, and I had some clients, but I was like barely squeaking by and I knew of clients. Orgasmic or coaches in the orgasmic meditation world who even paid a thousand dollars an hour. That's pretty normal coach pay for, California life.

But for Pittsburgh, it blew my mind, you know? And, I was just thinking about, I was doing the work of Byron Katie one day. Yeah. 'cause you know, you question your thoughts, you turn them around. So I was questioning this thought, you know, people should want to pay me a thousand dollars an hour. And I turned it around Byron Katie style to nobody should ever wanna pay me anything, ever.

And I felt this zing throughout my body. And I was just like, [00:10:00] my body was like, yes, that's so hot. And then as soon as I thought, I was like, oh no, no wonder I can't make any money. I'm so turned on by being devalued. Mm. And I was like, boy, this is, whew. This isn't just a bedroom pink thing. This is existential.

This is affecting my whole life, my whole existence. Yeah. And yeah, that was when I began to realize that, you know, and I was familiar with all of the law of attraction teaching stuff about you manifest what you desire. And I'd also been to grad school and I had read all sorts of Freud and young, and I knew that people have unconscious desires, desires that they're totally not aware of.

And I had started to suspect that I had an unconscious desire to be broke. Mm. That was true. Yeah. So I think a big thing in the spiritual community is like, you know, think good thoughts, right? Like that's like we're so, and for the longest time I was so scared of thinking bad thoughts and I still kind of [00:11:00] am.

So what do you say to those people that are like, well, I can't acknowledge this stuff, or I can't think this way 'cause then I'm going to attract those things in my life. Well, uh, usually people already are attracting them. Right? Like unless somebody is completely happy, has like absolutely everything they want.

The only person, the I. I thought one day I had this thought, I was like, who is the only woman in all of film or novels or TV that I've ever seen who has. Everything she wants. She has like this hot, amazing marriage and husband she has her children love her. She's creatively fulfilled, she's rich. She has clothes and the house that she wants.

The only woman I can think of, Brendan, I dunno. Do you have any guesses? Anybody Completely fulfilled and happy Women and all of art. Jimmy Carter. Yeah. Jimmy Carter and and Morticia Adams. Morticia Adams has absolutely everything she wants. She's totally [00:12:00] creatively, romantically, eternally financially fulfilled, and she gets off on everything.

You know, at the end of the Adams family movie in the nineties, the bad guys are like torturing her. And she is loving it. Wow. And she is not even judging the bad guys at all. She's like, wow, we could have been best friends, but you got, I mean, you got a little bit rude here. Like you took all my house and my, from my family and everything, but like, I, you know, you're vicious, you're resentful, you're bitter.

We could have totally vibed like, you know. And I, there's a deep, deep truth to that, which is, you know, um, Morticia and the Adams family in general, they have a deep ancestral connection and they're really okay with death and they're really okay with insanity and they're really okay with, , all sorts of deep, dark things that normal people aren't okay with.

Right. Paradoxically that makes them more wholesome, that makes them have a stronger [00:13:00] family, a better life, a more wealth. They have a giant, you know, basement filled with gold. And, and it started to dawn on me that, that ability to really find, you know, so in a way it can, I can see how on the surface, how the existential kink teaching, you know, get off.

On what you don't want so that you can have what you want. I can see how the getting off on the don't like situations can seem to conflict with like more conventional law of attraction teachings that are like you, right? Just think about what you want. If you see fat people ignore them. Only think about Finn people and how thin that you want to be, right?

If you see somebody suffering, ignore them. Don't do, don't, don't focus on it. and EK is very different than that. But essentially I think it is the core truth that, um.


Our vibes, our, our deep, deep, um, vibrational alignment does arrange our reality. And if the deep vibration that I have is of absolute deep [00:14:00] acceptance and orgasmic enjoyment of the whole spectrum of reality that I'm experiencing, that's a very resilient, positive vibration. Mm. And that brings in. it brings in very wonderful synchronicities and opportunities and I could just never get the conventional law of attraction thing to work for me because I'm, I'm just, I'm somebody who's naturally, and I think a, a lot of millennials are, and, um, a lot of, generation Z too, I think we're na more naturally inclined to sort of.

Darker contemplations, gen X also than the boomers. Boomers sold us conventional Law of Attraction teachings so hard because they have, they grew up in the most lent full time in American history. That's a really great point, man. World history. That's a really great point. And you know, it was, things were easier for them, so Yeah.

Yeah. Do you think then, so the missing piece to this wholeness, let's say the missing piece from us to Morticia Adams, I. Is the [00:15:00] resistance then it seems like, and that seems to be a big part of what you're saying. Absolutely. So the interesting thing is, is when we have these unconscious desires, being ashamed of them or blaming ourself for them, like, you know, 'cause I could have thought like, oh, I have this desire, you know, to be poor.

I'm turned on by being devalued. That's so fucked up. Oh, I'm so horrible. Oh, I'm, I'm the root of all this. I've suck. You know, I could have gone down that lane, but I realized, I knew, again from my grad school time, I have a PhD in. Critical in cultural studies, which basically just means reading a whole bunch of old European men.

Um.

I learned that, you know, if you, shame and resentment keep stuff in the unconscious. So for something to become conscious to, for it, it has to be associated with the ego. So the ego has to treat it as something volitional. I. It has to be like, I volitionally choose this, I desire this, I wish for this.

And you know, ordinarily the ego's like, well, I only want [00:16:00] good things. I only want people to like me and give me lots of money, and I wanna be fit and healthy and everything, which is very normal because those are all the things that support survival. But we have to, the ego, has to start to realize that it's not in charge.

The soul is in charge and the. Is it is round and it's a microcosm of the macrocosm, and it is really curious about every experience in incarnation, including death, including failure, including scarcity, rejection, all of these really intense, sensational things. So anyways, if they're already happening in my life.

That there's already some desire that's attracting them. According to the own logic of law of attraction, which I agree with. There's a desire, it's an unconscious desire. It's attracting this stuff. The way to make that conscious is to give it volitional approval. Deep, deep, deep approval so that the shame goes away, the resentment, the bitterness goes away, [00:17:00] and when that happens, there's a change in identity.

And an identity level change is the most powerful thing for magic and manifestation because when your identity changes, everything around you changes your, the whole environment switches. If we all did this though, aren't you worried that no one will be left to give money to the Catholic church? And you know, that does keep me up at night.

I do turn and I'm like, what about the poor Pope Pope? They just don't have enough he just doesn't have enough. He has a giant vault of gold under the Vatican. And what if it runs about enough? Yeah. So what would you say, and then I wanna get into a little bit of your story. What would you say to those people?

'cause I'm kind of experiencing this, I've been doing some of your techniques, but something, the pattern still is showing up. What would you say, what would you say then? That it's usually a process. So it's usually a process of some weeks or some months of noticing the pattern and giving it continued deeper and deeper love.

And sometimes I do phrase [00:18:00] it as like getting off on the situation itself. Yeah. So like. I would, I remember there were times when I would get bills and I would have no idea how to pay them, you know, which ordinarily would just send me into like a full on freak out. But I discovered that it's possible to just be present, like feel myself, start to freak out and just decide to experience that in a different context instead of like, I'm freaking out because I owe this money and I'm so horrible and I'm gonna die and I'll be a treat lady and I'll be pushing a grocery cart and blah, blah, blah.

Instead just be like, whoa. Here's this bill. There's a lot of sensation in my body. This is amazing. I'm getting exactly what I want. All of this really hot, intense sensation. Wow. Whoa. I am so fulfilled by getting this bill that I have no idea how I'm gonna pay it. Amazing. And the more that I would get into that vibe.

The faster things would start to shift. So it wasn't about like, it wasn't like da da dah. I am rich. I am rich. I don't have this bill. It wasn't like that. It was like, here's this bill. I'm like, whoa, it's [00:19:00] happening. Finding the orgasmic joy that's there. I love the idea of getting arrested and just going, whoa, it's happening.

Right? It's really hap, we're really going to jail, right? Wow. This is really happening. The officers would be like, I think we gotta let this person go. They're fucking crazy. Exactly. Yeah. No, that's exactly what it, I mean, existential kink is fucking crazy. It is absolutely, absolutely 1000% insane to do this.

It's an utterly insane orientation to reality. It is not normal, which is why it's. So magically powerful. That's great. Yeah. And can we just, can you talk a little bit about like how your life transformed? I listened to you tell the story about, I think you were dating an abusive relationship. You kept going back to, and then you started making money after you started doing this.

Yeah, so there was a whole process. So yeah, I started, I, um, whew. Yeah, the, it was around the same time that I was, I was broke. I was in this horrible, shitty, abusive relationship, and I started making [00:20:00] money. As I started getting off on my poverty, I. And I started getting really honest with myself that there was a part of me that really liked this super messed up relationship because I knew that it was messed up.

You know, a dude was like throwing ceramic coffee cups at my head. He was like super crazy and jealous and. , you know, there was a part of me that was like, oh, I'm so horrible. That's why I can only get this kind of horrible relationship because I suck and blah, blah, blah. And of course, as long as a woman believes that she's horrible, she's likely to get into horrible relationships.

That's how that works. And finally I got to the place with it where I was like, okay, well what do I like about this situation? What is the payoff here? And I realized that what I liked about it, because he was so jealous and crazy and controlling, was he was relating to me like he was a heroin addict. And I was the heroine.

Oh, wow. And he had to control his supply and he just desired me so much. He like couldn't control himself. And that's, you know, [00:21:00] that's kind of hot when I'm, when I was really honest with myself, I was like, it's hot. And so I let myself fully feel the joy that was there in this dark situation again, the sexy, orgasmic joy within the darkness.

And then I was like, you know, and I'd gone back to this again and again, like, I, you know, I'd broken up with this dude, kicked him out of the place where I lived. Then like three days later, called him up. I mean, I, I was the one forgetting this. And anyways. When I finally let myself be completely receive the deep, dark, forbidden joy of being, you know, coveted like heroin.

I was good. I got off on it. I was complete. Mm. It's sort of like, you know, when a guy has an orgasm, then he rolls over and goes to sleep. I was like, I don't need to, you know, I'm done here. And then I didn't, you know, call the guy again and I moved to Bali and he lost my trail and I've been safe ever.

And he is listening to this [00:22:00] podcast right now. Um, he, yeah, that's some that is a little bit scary sometimes, but bless him, he seems to have moved on and is living his life. But yeah, it's uh. It's really powerful when we admit to ourselves the deep, dark secret payoff that we're getting from a situation and stop shaming it and just truly let ourselves deeply receive it and be nourished by it.

'cause there's some part of ourselves that wants that nourishment and until it gets that nourishment, consciously, deliberately, with approval is able to receive that nourishment. It will just keep compulsively. Coming out sideways and seeking it and trying to get what it wants. So existential kink is all about, Basically letting the nourishment and the satisfaction happen and consciously, deliberately letting it happen. And to do that takes a lot of surrender, and it takes an ego death because our idea of who we are has to change. Yeah. I have to be willing to admit I'm actually somebody who is getting a [00:23:00] deep, rich pleasure from this crazy, you know.

Coffee mug thrown at my head relationship is really, really doing something for me. Mm-hmm. To stop seeing myself as a victim because that's the big lie that, um, all of, Ooh man. So all of our culture is really selling hard, especially, you know, to everybody, women and minorities, I feel like, especially, which is you are a victim, you're owed something, the world is messed with you.

You have every right to be resentful and bitter, and. Demand stuff and angry and like that is so I hate that. I really don't like that. It's because that's such disempowering message. Message is 'cause it's magically. It is magically in efficacious because as long as I'm bitter and angry and see myself as this like put upon victim of fate, I'm going to remain a victim of fate.

I have to lose all bitterness, all resent. My heart needs to become light as a feather [00:24:00] in order for me to have the life that I really want my happily ever after. Kind of, you know, fairytale existence. And, uh, that takes. That takes the death of this. Identity of, you know, that sees itself as some kind of tragic figure.

Yeah. And this just hit me, which I think is really awesome. Like the fact that you're able to talk about your past like that and say that you liked it and say that you actually enjoyed it has allowed you to move on. So many people that talk about their past are holding onto it with anger and it keeps them stuck.

Like, I feel like you wouldn't be here right now talking to me or reading, writing that book, if you were still mad at the guy. Who threw a fucking cup at your head like that was serious. But so many of us hold onto that and think that that's the way to, that's the way to solve it. I'll just stay mad at that person.

It's their fault. Absolutely. Precisely. And that's the great illusion. And, and the truth is forgiveness and existential. Kink is just sort of [00:25:00] like a fancy, sexy, uh, way of practicing forgiveness, sexiest. So, okay, so take me down your life. Then you go to Bali, you discover this is working, then you just go deeper down this road.

' cause you're like, oh shit, this is actually working. Yes. So I go deep down it. I find that it, you know, makes these major improvements in my romantic life and in my monetary life. So I, um, so like I said, it shifted my identity. So previously I'd been this like struggling creativity coach. I. And I just started to get ideas about like, oh, you know, I could create an email list.

I could offer courses to my email list. This ISN isn't like advanced super rocket science. It's just like something that I had never, I had blinders on to because I saw myself as a pathetic put upon person who nobody, you know. And suddenly I saw myself as like, oh. I'm actually pretty cool. I'm getting everything that I want.

What I want is to be broke and in an abusive relationship, and I'm getting exactly that. [00:26:00] Everybody should listen to me. I know how to get what I want. And so, you know, so yeah, my identity shifted and I started making money, selling online courses on writing and magic. And I was living in Bali and I went around Europe.

When I came back to my hometown of Pittsburgh, um, a guy reached out to me that I had known years ago from throwing parties and he wanted to hang out. Now he's my husband. Aw, he's amazing, wonderful man. And we've had all sorts of like, you know, deep issues to work out because while he is absolutely wonderful, I love him with all my heart.

He is a fountain of joy and wisdom. You know, we both still had karmic stuff, so we had plenty of fun drama. So I've had like fun working out, fun drama in my relationship with my husband for the past nine years, and that's sort of dying down. Like we seem to have worked through like lots of that. So now I'm like, oh man, what, what?

Sadomasochistic vistas are left for me. I don't even, you've done it [00:27:00] all. Yeah. There's nowhere else to look. Okay. So. In your mind here, here's one kind of concern I have. What about, 'cause this is sort of where like a logical brain would take this, your approach. What if something quote bad happens to you or something you don't want happens to you and you start thinking it's some kind of kink when it's just a parking ticket.

Like, have you ever thought about that? Or it's just a thing that happens? Yeah, so sometimes, so I like to apply existential kink to things that are like long-term, ongoing patterns. So like me being broke, that was a long term ongoing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. My string of abusive relationships, long term, ongoing.

When people are like, oh my great, my grandfather died and I feel horrible. Should I do existential kink about it? I'm like. No, you should cry and go to the funeral and do sad music that reminds you of your grandfather. [00:28:00] Like, you know, there's, I feel like there's grieving and grieving is really, really important and, uh, essentially, you know, feeling all of our feelings, honestly, whatever they are.

but yeah, sometimes people will be like, you know, I was raped in college. Should I try to get off on that? And it's just like, I don't recommend trying to get off on, you know, your worst trauma. I, I don't, especially if it was like a random kind of one off thing. I think, you know, there's lots, existential kink is like one tool in the toolbox and I love how excited people get about it, but I am sort of just like, you know, there's other things you can do.

but yeah, it's, there, but there is a very deep metaphysical sense, uh, that some existential kink practitioners get to that I know that I have and I know that. You know some, so I have a whole existential kink coach training program, and I, I have met, I have a mystery school. I have almost online, uh, schools on magic.

So I've worked with a lot of people over the years [00:29:00] and some people do get to the place where it's like they can see, they can really feel and experience the way that their soul. Really wanted, really was curious about a deep, dark, traumatic experience. And they can, they've been able to find, joy and release there.

So that does happen. But I would say that's like a super advanced thing and I would not recommend that. Yeah, they start out there. I would recommend starting out with like how irritated you feel that your neighbor. Lets their dog poop in front of your house. Start with that. Yeah. So for me it would be like not booking auditions, be like being like, do I have a kink to not being seen?

Or something like that. Um, or yeah, like rejection. Like, what do you think about rejection? Mm mm Well, you got super excited. You got super excited. Here we go. I got very excited because Southern California and Hollywood, that whole scene is [00:30:00] super kinky. Super whoa. I mean, boy, the Catholic church, I don't know.

I mean, yeah, they got their stuff going on, but Hollywood does too. So that's a great book. Yeah. That whole, the whole game of like, are they gonna accept me? Are they gonna like me? Are they gonna hire me? I feel you, man. I mean, it's, it's in the publishing world too. but it's, yeah, I would say there's.

There's usually kinky things woven in there. You that could definitely be a subject for exercise meditation. And by the way, I do have, like I said, hundreds of trained coaches. So while I don't coach myself personally much anymore because I'm very lazy and I eat bonbons on the couch all day, sweet. There are hundreds of people I've trained so.

You might wanna talk to one of 'em. So yeah. So let's talk a little bit about, like you've come up with these amazing techniques. One of the techniques is to like really welcome it and feel it. What if when you're feeling it, it starts to feel really un fucking uncomfortable and you're like, I can't do this.

Like, then what do you do? Exactly. Then you should [00:31:00] stop.


Yeah, no. Well, I mean, so here's the thing. It's existential kink practice and, takes having what I like to call in a very super technical, scientific way, free floating positive energy. Hmm. So it's like if you're, if somebody is depressed. I don't think they should try the meditation at all because I think it just leads to rumination.

Like I think you have to be in essentially like a good mood. You have to be generally feeling good in your body. You have to have some self approval, some sense of humor about your life and your situation. In order to meditatively open up and be like, I'm gonna just experiment. I'm gonna just go in and see.

Is there some part of me that like, oh my God fucking loves this rejection. It's like, what? Wow is there, is that there? Can I gently find that and like touch that place with zero shame? sometimes that's possible and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's like you go into the meditation and, Just, [00:32:00] you know, can't do it. I can't get there. I definitely hit a wall like my husband and I for a while. We were just arguing a whole lot and I, I could not find any part of me that desired this. And I was like, why did I write this stupid fucking book about, you know, and it was just like, eventually I was able to find it, but it took, you know, accessing that, getting enough.

Free floating, you know, enough open perspective and enough, you know, like I said, free floating positive energy in my system in order to be able to get off on like a deep, dark karmic pattern from like both of his and mine's families. That took a lot, that took, other therapeutic interventions, so, hmm.

It happen, but sometimes it takes more. In your mind, is there a difference between a kink and just a habit or a choice? Like someone has a kink for, let's say, um, you know, they're dating the wrong guys, but maybe they're just making choices that just really like DJs. Like is there a way, is there a difference in your mind?

let's see. Is [00:33:00] there a difference? Is there a difference? So, so a kink is generally something that's in my, I mean, obviously people have conscious kinks. They're like, oh my God, I love leather boots, or I like being whipped, or whatever. Obviously that's the thing. Yeah. But in this de definition, an existential kink is something that starts out.

Being unconscious. So the person is not aware of it. It's just, it's like cruel fate keeps winding me up with these DJs. I don't know why. Hate DJs. In fact, that actually reminds me of when I was in my twenties, I dated a guy named dj. Fuck you. It was a noise artist. Oh my God. Lemme tell you this, Brandon, he was a noise artist, which meant, what does that mean?

It meant that he hooked up these machines that made these horrible ear splitting reverb, super loud. God. He would just like, oh my God. Set us up and play it. And I would just be standing there like a noise artist groupie with dj, fuck you. That's how sadistic I am. I, when I think about that, I'm like, God, Carolyn.

It's so [00:34:00] funny that image alone of you being like, no, no, trust me, I like this. It's like the worst sounds in the world. Crazy. I mean, I was cute in my twenties and I was just like been there with this guy making these horrible sounds and it's nuts. So anyways, I'll give you really specific example of a friend of mine.

She just had her third experience of dating a guy who was secretly married, coming to her house to yell at him. Three times this has happened to her. She was three times. She has dated a guy who's turned out to be secretly married, and he comes to her house to yell at her. No, the girl, the wife, or gets involved.

Yes. And I was like, holy shit man. That is, that's, that qualifies, that is a repeating pattern. And yeah, that could definitely, she, have you given her my book? No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell her about, I'm gonna tell her about this stuff for sure. But like, that is an example of something like Yeah. And everybody almost inexplicable.

Yeah, [00:35:00] yeah, exactly. It's like, what is happening here? It's like this weird fate, like this weird machination and it's like. Exactly. So it everybody knows situations like this. Yeah. Where it's like have that one friend who like says that, you know, they hate having tyrannical bosses, but like this is their 10th job where they have a boss who treats them like a Siberian slave or whatever.

I know. It's just, and then I guess, what would you say be the difference between that and just a chronic pattern of thought that's negative? Is that tied together to you? I. They're very tied together, but it's usually the, I mean, sometimes the chronic pattern of thought that's negative. And again, it's, it can be deeply repressed so that the conscious mind isn't even aware of it.

So that's how you get people who are like super into manifestation and thinking positive thoughts and going to like, I don't know, uh, Abraham Hicks workshops and just like. And there's still, you know, having these banana experiences of like, I always date men who turn out to be [00:36:00] married and their wives come to my house and tell me I'm a whore and, you know, just like, it just keeps happening.

My vision board does not include that, but, you know, so yeah, it's, um, it's, it's a very universal human thing. Oh, absolutely. Called it psychic masochism. Freud and young both realized that like, this is what people needed to realize in order to have psychological health. They needed to realize that they weren't being victimized by their lives, that their lives were.

matching something deep within them, but both of them had the experience of just straight up telling people this and people being like, shut the fuck up. And just like, which is, you know, the understandable human reaction. And I was like, well, if I just write a book, and I'm like, you know, it's not personal guys.

It's everybody. It's not just you. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that people are like so worried to do this process? Because if we all just let these kind of inner machinations flow through us, it would just become one big [00:37:00] Philadelphia Eagles game.

Uh, perhaps I, I don't even know anything about the, what are the, what are the Philadelphia Eagles up to? The fans are psychotic. There's a jail in the stadium, so it's just like a free for all people just being, oh, their fans are maniacs. Yeah. Would we all become maniacs if we all did this meditation? I think we would all stop seeing ourselves as victims and stop being whiny little bitches who can't take care of ourselves.

I think we would turn into like self, spiritually mature, self-sufficient people. Like have you ever noticed in indigenous societies, they'll, they'll be like, oh, these are our elders, and we repair them. We take up their wisdom. And then in America, people just turn into old babies. They just turn into like old mean babies.

I mean, not all of 'em, obviously, like some people do manage against all odds to become genuinely wise, kind elders. Yeah. But by and large.

And that's not how, what, what's supposed to happen. We're supposed to come to a place of maturity and you know, other civilizations [00:38:00] did that with like mystery schools, with initiatory rights, with coming of age rights, all sorts of things In our culture, we just try, you know, I mean, if we wanna, I like to get all tinfoil hat with it.

Let's do it like, you know, there's people who've been conspiring to like, make sure that we all just. Stay old babies because old babies are weak and they don't fight back and they don't, they're not self-determining and they're just, you know, they suck their little consumer consumption tubes and they shit, and they die and they're easy to manage.

but when you actually, when you get into this EK stuff, you know, like slogan of the Adamson's family, the Adams family, their family motto was, we gladly feast on those who would subdue us. Mm. And I think that's what starts to happen to people when they get really into ek. They get in touch with their spiritual ancestral soul power.

They stop being whiny little bitches. They, um, they come into the fullness of their larger. Self, and I'm really into that. I really wanna see that happen all over. It's, I [00:39:00] call it my alchemical literacy project. Yeah. And I think like when someone doesn't have resistance around something or they're being like, super, like you mentioned, you know, uh, Adam's family, there's nothing to push back against.

Right. It's like punching an ice cream cone like you're the asshole. If someone, right, if someone like goes to tie you up and you're like, thank you. Mm-hmm. You're like, what the fuck? Like, it makes you not want to then do it. It's the, it's crazy. Like it's almost backwards thinking, you know? Yeah, it becomes, it's like that's the thing is like, uh, yeah, it sort of reminds me of like, when I first started out, you know, being, having like having a public online presence, I was like so afraid that people were gonna see me as like wrong and bad.

'cause I was charging money for spiritual teachings and I would get like whole crowds of people like calling me an evil vampire. And it was so amazing. And. Then when I was like, yeah, I am an evil vampire, suddenly I'd be like, look at me. I'm charging money for spiritual teachings. Don't you wanna call me an evil vampire?

And people would be like, um, no, we, that's. Totally [00:40:00] we can, we pay you for your spiritual teaching. Wow. And it was just like, I was like, wow, this is very interesting. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's almost a polarization or a magnetism that works the o other way around. Like it's, it's really, it's really crazy. So do you think in order to like actually fully process these prohibitions, as you call them, you have to come to them?

Well, um, so there's. So erotic release is one option that can happen, and um. But it's not all the time. Sometimes the climax thing of it can be like a heart climax. Like sometimes like people will just, you know, they'll start to gently cry and they'll just, like, their hearts will open. Sometimes people will just start laughing, like they're being tickled, you know?

Yeah. Sometimes it's just like, sometimes it just lifts like a, a heavy cloud, just lifting. Mm. So the, the release can happen in all sorts of. Ways through all sorts of different energy centers in the human body that I would say like, you know, the key [00:41:00] ingredients are, humor and deep, deep love, and deep, deep willingness to see the truth, even if it's a truth that, you know, challenges my identity and makes my ego uncomfortable.

I love that. Can we talk about just a, uh, quickly about a couple of the techniques because like the deep fear inventory is fascinating. Yeah. So how'd you come to that? How'd you come up with that? I think that's inspired by Marian Williamson, quote. She wrote a book, Marian Williamson, you know, she ran for president.

Yeah. Uh, there were all these memes on Facebook about her being the orb mother that I thought were really great. Um, she wrote a book called Return to Love, which is about a course of, which is the Ana Shas of Midwestern White people. Have you, are you familiar with I'm familiar. I haven't read it. 'cause I've, I heard it's so long and I'm like, I don't got the time, but yeah.

Yeah. It's. Um, in her book, she has this line that's like, you know, your greatest fear is not that you are, powerless. Your greatest fear is that you're powerful. Beyond all measure is the gist of it. Right. [00:42:00] And I, I was really intrigued by that quote and I got really curious about it. And, you know, and I've been in 12 step groups where you take inventories of your fears and resentments and everything, and.

so anyways, so the way I can explain to your audience how deepest fear inventory works. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, please. Yeah. So it's basically I think about a situation that I'm in that I don't really like so much. Like, so, you know, you were talking about getting rejected for auditions. I'm in this situation where.

Joe Rogan has not invited me on his podcast. I mean, marvelous, Brendan has, marvelous, wise Brendan, but not Joe Rogan. And so, you know, there's, so there's this part of me that's like, you know, I wanna be on these super big podcasts. Um, that's not happening. So what we do is we start by turning it around and turning it around and seeing that that's a situation that some part of us desires.

So taking that stance. So I read at the top of the sheet of paper, Dear Universe, I deeply hate and resent being interviewed on the Joe Rogan Show, and that's where I started because I'm starting it because that there's some [00:43:00] part of me that totally hates that idea, that totally refuses it, that does not let it happen.

So I write, you know, I deeply. hate and resent being interviewed by Joe Rogan because I have deep fear that I, and then I start finding things so I can write things that are like literal fears, you know, because I have deep fear that I won't actually get along with him. I mean, maybe he's just a jerk. I, because I have deep fear that I won't seem cool because I have deep fear that I will feel anxious because I have deep fear and I just find, you know, at least.

20 beers. I write at the bottom of the page, you know, dear Universe, God, Jimmy Buttercup, you know, whoever you wanna address. Dear Universe, you know, I pray that you remove these fears. I pray for knowledge of your will for me, and the power to carry it out. And then the very important part is that I have to read it out loud to another human being.

And that's the part people are resistant to doing that I really make, I. Pair people up in my programs and make them read it to each [00:44:00] other because there is something about sharing this with another human consciousness. And you know, usually we have, it's partnered so somebody else will read theirs to you.

It makes you, it really starts to click in that like these, everybody has these fears and they're very, very silly and it usually takes about two weeks of writing inventories and reading them out loud and doing a little prayer at the end. And you know when the other person hears your inventory, they just say thank you.

They're not supposed to like, comment and psychoanalyze you about it. Thank you for your honesty. But we do this because it's like scraping off a layer of paint. I recommend that people start with deepest fear inventory because, um. You know, it's a practice that you can do, even if you are depressed, even if you don't have some humor about your situation, like you can really, you can start there and it's you.

It's after two weeks of reading aloud, your fears, you just get so fucking bored of them that you let them go. I, that's what happens. It's, it's changed through boredom, but it's also, you know, it's making the unconscious conscious, because usually for [00:45:00] any situation that we have, like. There's all this unconscious stuff, like, I'm unwilling to feel this.

I'm afraid of this. My mom will think I'm, I'm, you know, better than her and she won't like me anymore. My sister will think I'm ignoring her, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever. But just we bring that to the surface, so we just make it conscious and we share it with another human being. We just read it and read it over and over again, and eventually it just loses its grip.

Mm. And that we have a new layer of freedom. Yeah. I want to thank you for making psychology now using sex terms instead of just blaming things on our parents. This is much more interesting. Glad, I'm just glad it's not just, you know, blaming your parents. And then the last one that I really liked, that I heard, uh, my friend has just been doing, which is go seek out 30 rejections.

Yeah. I, I fucking love that idea. Yes. Isn't that a great one? Yeah, that's really great. And at first you hear that and you're like, no. But then the more I think about it, I'm like, well, if rejection's already your biggest fear, you're already there, man. [00:46:00] Like, all right, I'm gonna get rejected. This is great. I.

Precisely. You have tuned. I'm really glad that you brought that one up because that's exactly it. When you turn it into like, I'm seeking this, I'm seeking the no energy because Lordy, I hate no energy, rejection energy too. I have in the past. Yeah. And so yeah, changing the orientation towards it and being like, I'm seeking this.

I'm gonna go get it. It's out there for me. I'm, that's what I want. It again, it's just, it's again, it's a polarity shift like we were talking about. There's like when people, when you go into a room, into an audition, into a date, into whatever, an interview with that kind of energy of like, I am so hot for you to say no to me.

You can, I'm gonna ask you something. I'm gonna, I really want this part. I want another date with you. I want this job, whatever it is, and. Your No is I'm gonna be delighted by it. Yes. You know, you go in with that energy, it's God-like energy. That's like the energy of [00:47:00] love, of true love. Is that like I'm gonna be to, I'm like, if you say no to me, I'm not gonna shut down and be like, oh, do you guys, I'm going home.

I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna like it. I. And that's hot. Everybody wants to be around a person who can do that. Wow. Is that's amazing. Yeah. Are there, is there any other technique that you use that you feel like is super effective? techniques. Techniques. Well, yeah. Um, this is gets into farther, maybe weirder even stuff than this, but like, uh, you know, ex this is, I think some people read my book and then they come to my online courses and my in-person courses and they're like, wow, I didn't even know it could get this weird, because.

A lot of what I do is called theor G, which means God working, which means using ritual action to basically make the soul into a nice rounded out receptacle for divine energy to [00:48:00] receive. Direct transmissions, guidance, prophecy, healings, all sorts of things. So the, you know, the mystery school, we do a ton of theology in my, and a lot of my online classes are devoted to theoretical practices and people have dramatic life changes from that.

So, yeah. God, God work. I love it. All right. God. Working. Yeah. I like to say that shadow working leads to God working. Ah, okay. So that's the next step. All right. Awesome. Well, this has been amazing. I like to close by playing a game called Spiritual or Asshole, where I say some things and you tell me if it's spiritual or asshole.

Are you down please? All right. Spiritual or asshole? Telling your wife that she is a kink for making shitty food. Um, asshole. My husband does stuff like that.

Spiritual or asshole masturbating in a dark room to king porn and being like, looks like two kinks at once. Uh, hard to say, wow, we go either way, right? There's an in-between answer. Great. All right. Spiritual [00:49:00] or asshole. Instead of feeling shame for repeating a pattern of behavior, you just say to yourself, looks like someone needs to come.

The spiritual, okay. Spiritual asshole doing a deepest fear inventory. But every fear is just improv comedy. So spiritual. All right. Spiritual or asshole telling everyone on a work Zoom. Listen guys, all of us are here because we fully hate ourselves. Basically enlightened, um, spirits are also seeing your partner crying and saying, I'm so turned on right now.


Spiritual. All right. last question I ask everybody, if you could tell people one thing to tell themselves all day long, what would it be? God, you're so good looking. Wow. You are so hot. Oh my God. No one has ever said that. That's fucking great. No one has ever, ever, ever said looks. That's so good. I'm so glad you did that.

That's amazing. This has been so fun. Well, you wanna tell everybody where they can find you? Yeah. they should go to the immortal college.com and that's where [00:50:00] they can, the thing to do would be to join the email list. Okay. 'cause the emails I send out are really cool and they get all the offers and there's stuff about classes you can just buy from the website.

And there's also, they should join the waiting list. For Sleepover Mystery School. Our next round is in 2026 and it's this incredible in-person deep dive into the mysteries, with an existential kink theme. It's in-person weekends, we, it's like a cross between an ancient mystery school and a naughty co-ed slumber party.

It is the literal best. And where is that? Is that in Pittsburgh? one of the meetings is in Pittsburgh. two of the other meetings are elsewhere. In past years, we did them in Miami. We did two of the meetings in Miami. One. In the woods in West Virginia. One in a weird old place in Pittsburgh. But next in 2026, I'm not sure if we'll still be in Miami, but we'll be at someplace else.

'cause we start in Jan in February or January. So we try to find someplace warm for people to go to at that time of year. That great. But yeah, we have four live in-person ritual immersion weekends, and then people are initiated into our ongoing [00:51:00] magical order, which, is a lifelong thing. So we have reunions and meetups, and we have magical practices with all the initiatives from Sleepover Mystery school.

Uh, they can also check out my podcast, sleepover podcast where basically I don't like interview people or anything. I just. Talk. Talk to people who are already around me. I mean, I guess it's interviewing sometimes. But anyways, they can hear from sleepover mystery school initiatives and hear from me and people who work with me.

About weird stuff that we think about and that we're doing. I also have Penetrate, which is an existential kink coach training program, which will open again next year and they can join the waiting list for that. And this year we have, I. Something called the red work, which is for people who want to, use online business growth as an alchemical spiritual life practice.

Mm. That's happening right now is the red work will be open soon . Well, that's awesome. You got a lot going on. Well, thank you so much.

This is so fun. Yes. Thank you. All right.[00:52:00] 

really do like the idea of a little kid using this against their parents though at one point, if the kid, if a kid finds out like a really angry teenage girl, she's just like. Well, yeah, mom and dad, maybe you just have a kink for being shitty parents. Keep it going for Carolyn.

Love everybody. And yeah, so, so many things about this episode stuck with me that I love so much. I really love when she talks about playful energy because I do think this is supposed to be fun. And I do think we make it a lot more complicated than we need to be. And I do think that the heaviness. Is what keeps things stuck.

But I really like it when I was like, okay, well what would you say to those people who are like, by doing this, you're just gonna manifest it by like acknowledging and saying like, yeah, I have a part of me that wants to be in a shitty relationship. I have a part of me, there's a part of me that actually gets off on struggling financially.

And she's like, well, you're manifesting it anyway. And I was like, oh. Good point. So brilliant. So definitely check out her book, check out her work. I [00:53:00] would love to go to Magic Camp and I hope that you have the best week ever. I will be back with more, and I'm gonna be posting more videos too on my YouTube channel that are more in line with this podcast working on a bunch of stuff.

I love you guys. I believe all your dreams can come true. I believe there's so much love here for you. Have a best week.