Seth Donlin: How Storytelling Builds a Powerful Personal Brand

Full Episode Page: Seth Donlin: How Storytelling Builds a Powerful Personal Brand

Seth Donlin is a marketing and communications coach and founder of Seth Donlin Coaching.

Personal branding is more than a logo; it is the story that convinces ideal clients you are their answer. In this fast‑moving conversation, host Nick Berry and Seth Donlin unpack why narrow messaging converts, how relatable anecdotes build instant trust, and when podcast guesting catapults you into expert territory. You will walk away ready to refine your voice, target with precision, and turn listeners into loyal customers.

Find Out

• How personal branding attracts and repels ideal clients
• Why narrow messaging beats trying to please everyone
• Best audience targeting mix for sustainable growth
• What storytelling does to fast track trust and authority
• When podcast guesting positions you as the go to expert
• Craft authentic messaging that converts without hype

Links

• Seth Donlin Coaching
• Seth on LinkedIn
• Seth on Instagram

Chapters
01:30 Personal Branding for Business Owners
07:30 Understanding Ideal Client and Audience Targeting
13:42 Authentic Personal Branding
19:00 Engaging Your Ideal Client with Brand Storytelling
22:58 The Power of Storytelling in Personal Branding
26:29 Mirror Exposure Effect: Building Relatable Brands
28:58 Creating Relatable Messaging
31:19 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
34:57 Authenticity and Authority in Personal Branding
40:45 Storytelling Strategies for Business Growth

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The Business Owner's Journey podcast is where entrepreneurs, leaders, and innovators join host and entrepreneur Nick Berry to share their personal stories, challenges, and strategies from their journeys as business owners.

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Transcript

01:30 Personal Branding for Business Owners
07:30 Understanding Ideal Client and Audience Targeting
13:42 Authentic Personal Branding
19:00 Engaging Your Ideal Client with Brand Storytelling
22:58 The Power of Storytelling in Personal Branding
26:29 Mirror Exposure Effect: Building Relatable Brands
28:58 Creating Relatable Messaging
31:19 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
34:57 Authenticity and Authority in Personal Branding
40:45 Storytelling Strategies for Business Growth

Seth Donlin (00:00)
most of us, to some degree or another, we have a fear of rejection. And we have a fear that if we are honest about who we are, people are not going to like who we are, or not enough people are going to like who we are. And we're going to then be ostracized off into the forest to die alone, right? The village is going to kick us out.

Nick Berry (00:34)
Seth Donlin is a marketing and communications coach. She's the founder of Seth Donlon Coaching, and he's a master at helping experts become recognized leaders in their field. So what does it actually take to build a personal brand that will attract the right clients and repel the wrong ones? You've probably heard that you have to be everywhere, or you have to say more, or you have to say less, or you just have to say what matters.

Seth is going to get us clear on what it takes to build a brand that sticks. He explains how to stop diluting your message. What separates brands that attract super fans from brands that get ignored. single biggest mindset shift that most business owners need. How you can use storytelling to instantly build trust. The best and the worst ways to use podcast guesting to grow your authority. Overcoming your fear of not being for everyone.

his secret to memorable messaging, and how to know when you finally found your brand's true voice. Now let's get to the show and Seth Donlan.

Nick Berry (01:26)
personal branding is just, it's everywhere. Everybody's talking about it. It's on everybody's mind. Everybody wants their voice to be heard or they're wants their voice to carry further. And, podcasting is like one of the things that is.

being used as a medium for that. What are the challenges that everybody's facing or maybe start with the biggest challenge that's holding everybody back as far as building a personal brand and getting their voice out there, getting it to carry further?

Seth Donlin (01:51)
Yeah, it's a good question. I think that when you really boil it down to its basics, whether people are struggling with their messaging on podcasting or they're just struggling with their messaging in general around their entire personal brand, the big challenge is getting comfortable with the idea that you're speaking to a specific audience and a fairly narrow audience.

and that everybody outside that audience is unimportant, which for many people is, it feels uncomfortable, right? Because we, as social animals, humans have evolved to want to be broadly liked, right? If 10,000 years ago or whatever, if you weren't a likable person, your little village or your tribe kicked you the hell out and you wandered off into the cold

you know, forced and died on your own because you humans didn't survive as individuals. And so we are all the descendants of those people that could figure out how to get along well with the rest of the people around us and to be, it didn't have to be the favorite person in the group, but we understood how to be liked amongst the group. And so then when you challenge somebody to say,

look, you don't have to be liked by everybody. You need to be liked by this one specific group and other people hopefully will like you, but if they don't like you, that's not a big deal. Right? And it's something that you really need to focus on and you really need to work on. And it's not easy for everybody. it reminds me, when I was a kid and I'm dating myself, right? I was born in 72. So when I was in

late in grade school, we're talking the early eighties, and tractor trailers, big rigs, trucks were just all the rage. And if you think back to that time period, Hollywood came out with Smoky and the Bandit, Every Which Way But Lose, Convoy, Trucker, and in numerous smaller movies that I couldn't tell you what the name of them were. But my best friend, Keith and I,

were absolutely obsessed with big rigs, right? We'd argue what was better, Mack or Peterbilt. I was a Mack guy, Keith liked Peterbilt. And any chance that we would get, we would grab our backpacks, pack ourselves a lunch, know, peanut butter and jelly, bologna and cheese. We'd grab our Cub Scout canteens, fill them up with water, throw that in the backpack. We'd jump on our bikes and we'd pedal on down to the

nearest rural route where there was a decent amount of truck traffic. And we'd stand there by the side of the road, Keith and his John Deere trucker cap. I had this Vietnam era army helmet from my uncle. It was, you know, so big on me that you couldn't even see my eyes practically. And we would pump our fists and pump our fists as the trucks would come barreling down the rural route and you know, to, you know,

10 year old kids or whatever, 11 year old kids standing on the side of the road, the truckers would honk their horns for us, blow their air horns for us. And that's, you know, that was for us, heaven, right? And if you think about it though, on those rural routes, I mean, I'm sure we've all, you know, unless you've spent your whole life in the city, you know what a rural route is like. There's truck traffic, sure. But there's a lot more cars and pickup trucks and vans. you know, late 70s, early 80s, there was plenty of station wagons.

And the station wagons weren't hawking their horns for us. And we didn't care that the station wagons weren't hawking their horns for us because we were there to get trucks to blast their air horns. And it's the same thing when you're out here trying to build your personal brand. It's the same thing when you're talking to an audience on a podcast. You need to be pumping your fist and getting the trucks to blast their air horns for you.

all the rest of the vehicles driving down the road, right? All the rest of the people out there in the world. It doesn't matter whether your story is resonating with them or not, whether your message is landing with them or not. And as a matter of fact, it's kind of better if they're hearing your message and saying, message is not for me. I'm not going to follow this guy. I'm not going to follow this woman.

I'm not going to subscribe to this newsletter or whatever. If I see that they're guesting on a different podcast, I'm not going listen to that podcast because their message is not for me, which is actually what we want. We want to be attracting our ideal leads, our ideal prospects, our ideal clients and customers. And we want to be repelling those people that aren't our ideal customers because the more refined we can get our audience.

If we have an email list, the more targeted our email list is, the better for our open rate, the better for our revenue generated from that email list, right? If you have a bunch of people on that email list that like, they like you, they think you're a nice person, they enjoy a funny story that you tell here or there or whatever, but they're not the people that are ever gonna buy from you, well, that, know, they don't serve any purpose on your email list, right?

So the more that you can get people, that you can narrow your message and get comfortable with the fact that some people are gonna naturally be like, this is just not for me, the more success that you're gonna ultimately have. And again, it's gonna feel uncomfortable at first because we all really wanna be liked and we don't want anybody to say this message isn't for me. I didn't get it, I don't like it, it makes me uncomfortable, whatever it is.

But the more that we can, you know, kind of sit with that and feel okay with that and start actually kind of getting excited about that, like, great, this message really differentiated. Some people loved it and some people hated it. That's where you want your messaging ultimately to be. Not hated it because you're being obnoxious, not hated it because you're intentionally like crafting the message in some way that it's controversial or whatever.

Nick Berry (07:47)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Donlin (07:58)
Just like, hey, that wasn't, that message wasn't for me. Right.

Nick Berry (08:01)
Not what I'm looking for. Yeah. So do

you see it as just kind of distinctly two groups? there's your ideal and then there's everybody else, or is it kind of gradient once you get outside of your ideal?

Seth Donlin (08:13)
I mean, there's a gradient to a certain degree and, you know, we have to understand that.

You know, your ideal customer is ready to buy from you right now, right? But like if you're only speaking to people that are ready to buy, if your message is so refined that only people that are willing to buy from you right now can hear it and not be kind of repelled by it.

then you're doing yourself a disservice because clearly there are people that are going to be ready to buy from you in six months or in a year's time. And you want to be able to nurture those people in your social media channels, your email lists, you know, whatever the case may be. But

Nick Berry (08:53)
Maybe the same persona,

but different stage of awareness.

Seth Donlin (08:57)
Yeah, totally. mean, you want to have a content mix, you know, when you're, I mean, now I'm talking more about social media marketing or something, but you want to have a, you know, an email marketing things, things of that nature. You want to have a content mix that lets people that aren't quite ready to buy from you continue to see value in what you're saying. But also you don't want to have your messaging. I mean, the danger is that you water down your message.

in order to have broad appeal. Right? And if you're saying, you know, if I'm saying that my clientele, you know, my ideal customers are people looking to position themselves within their industry as industry experts and industry leaders. But then I say, yeah, but I could help them. I could help the woman that owns like a restaurant.

like

So I should make sure that my messaging is attractive to that woman that owns a restaurant or that man that owns a restaurant, right? Then I'm not helping myself and I'm actually not helping my customer, right? Because in order for me to help them, they actually have to engage me, they have to hire me. And if I'm not writing my content,

speaking on podcasts in such a way that those people understand.

who I can help, how I can help, and what I can really do for them, then they're not going to engage with me. And if they don't engage with me, they don't get the help that they need. I mean, hopefully they'll go find somebody else that can give them the help. the point is, that, Like, I do what I do.

partially because I love what I do and partially because I genuinely enjoy helping people. you know, at earlier stages in my career, I was still working with mentees and with junior associates and with interns and stuff to help them. And in some ways to help them in a similar way to what I'm doing now and getting paid to do.

When I was a journalist, when I was working for national marketing agencies, I was still helping other people build their brands. I was still coaching people. I just wasn't getting paid for that aspect of the work that I was doing, but I was doing it because I loved it. And I still love it. Now I'm lucky enough that I get paid at it. And so I really want...

I mean, I want people to engage with me because I want to put food on the table, but I also want people to engage with me because I genuinely want to help them. And if I'm not putting my message out in a way that resonates with my ideal customer, then they're not engaging with me and I'm not able to help them. And it's the same for really any business person out there. It doesn't matter what you're doing. mean, if you have a

If you're selling, I've got roofers up on the roof. Luckily, they're on the other side, so hopefully you won't hear them. But I've got roofers up on the roof putting a new roof on. I've got a, I'm in my office is in carved out little part of a barn. We've got a corrugated metal roof up there. So they're putting, you know, the roof on in the in the screws that go into the roof have little plastic, you know, rubber washers on there. So the rain can't get through the metal, right?

If you sell those and you've got some new rubber that holds up five years longer, well, you you'd be doing me a disservice if you didn't let roofers know that there was this new superior screw that's going to cause the, you know, it's going to keep the leaks away for five years longer, right? And if you're not getting that message out there, you're actually hurting me the percent

the potential consumer of that product. And people need to understand that, that their message needs to be focused because that's the only way they can help the people that their business is designed to help.

Nick Berry (12:44)
right?

Right. Yeah. mean, I can totally relate to the problem You need to speak to, like I use the audience of one, right? I need to, my messaging needs to speak to that audience of one and pen goes to paper or however the message is coming out. And I started there, but it starts to drift really easily, but before you even realize it.

Seth Donlin (13:05)
Mm-hmm.

Nick Berry (13:16)
And where I really see it is when I do write. can, my first draft through pretty good, but every, as soon as I start over editing, it just starts to expand because every, all of my over editing is like making it broader because well, it needs to, I need to account for this situation. I need to account for the person who's thinking this. And as soon as you start adding the ors or the like, well, I need to also include.

It's, I'm already diluting things down and doing the opposite of what you're saying needs to happen.

Seth Donlin (13:47)
Yeah, I do that when I speak. Unfortunately, you know, I work on it. I work on training it out of me. But I have a little bit of ADHD and my brain gets going really fast. I'm halfway through a sentence that I'm saying and my mind's addressing the potential objections to the sentence. then I, you know, so I'm like, well, you need to, well, you need to do this if, and then I...

I stick all of these things into the middle of the sentence and then I come back to the point that I was really trying to make and it's just a horrible way to like communicate with a person, right? And if I don't rein that in, yeah.

Nick Berry (14:22)
Ultimately, you turn into a politician, right? Like that's why politicians don't make sense

because they're speaking to all of their constituents.

Seth Donlin (14:30)
Right. And so, you you've got to really rein in that instinct. Many of us have that instinct to, all right, I really want to connect. really want to, I want people to understand what I'm saying. And I want to address any possible concern that they might have with what I'm saying.

And it's not the best way to do it. Let the people that have concerns have concerns. And then you can address those concerns or not, because those concerns may, in many instances, those concerns are actually the concerns that people outside your target have. And you don't, again, it can feel uncomfortable to not address that. But if your mission is to help these people,

If you've got the time to address these other people's concerns, sure do that. I mean, you don't want to, you're not looking to alienate people for this, you know, they might have somebody that they can refer you to, right? But again, you're not trying to address their concerns so that they join your email list or so that they whatever, because they're not, they're not, they're never going to buy from you, right? They're not the right person.

And so your energy should be focused on your ideal client and your messaging that is really going to resonate with them, excite them, activate them. Right? So many of our ideal clients are suffering because of inertia, right? They know that they need to make a change, but they haven't

done what they need to do. I mean, I know that I've experienced this in my past, right? I know that I need help.

I'm not the best salesperson. So I go to outside, I go to sales coaches to like learn how to become a better salesperson to help me with my funnel design and stuff like that. Right? Well, there's been times in my business where I'm like, I know that I need, but I'm so busy and I'm not, know, whatever, it's fine. It's working. Okay. I, I, know, and I know that there's some changes that I could make myself. And so

I don't go out and I don't hire help. And then the changes that I know that I could make myself, well, they don't get made because while I could make them myself, why didn't I do it a month ago, two months ago, three months ago, because, you know, inertia, I've got other things that I'm focused on. Now, when I finally do go out and hire, bring somebody in to coach me to be better at it myself or to just work with me and do it myself, the changes get made.

Suddenly, I'm not struggling with this problem anymore, right? And so for so many of us, I mean, again, whether it's like you're hiring a coach or hiring a roofer to fix your roof, I mean, we should have had this roof redone probably a year ago, right? But it's like, oh, well, we can probably make it another season. We'll put a tarp up over this part. The league's not that bad or whatever, right? There's always reasons that we don't engage.

We don't go out and engage with the people that we should, that could help us. We don't hire the, you know, again, you own a restaurant, you don't hire the person to come in and modernize your POS system for your, know, whatever the, whatever business field you're in, there's always roadblocks to making the changes, whether it's a time investment or money investment, you know, a fear that

that some systemic change is going to generate problems with your staff. They're not going to like to have to learn how to use this new system. Whatever the case may be, there's always reasons why we don't do the thing that we know that we need to do. And so again, part of our messaging is that we need to be out there.

from a branding standpoint, we need to be out there branding ourselves as the person that can help and the person that it would be foolish for them not to come to for help and the person that is going to make getting that help so easy and painless and kind of like seamless that when they hear us on a podcast or when they

Nick Berry (18:32)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Donlin (18:44)
You know, they read our eat there are, you know, newsletter, they get our email, they read our post on LinkedIn or whatever they say. Yeah, okay, this is this is what I've been waiting for. This is it. I can't wait anymore. This is it. I got to jump on this right now. This is gonna, you know, I get it. I understand I need it. I'm gonna do it.

Nick Berry (19:00)
Mm-hmm.

So how do you bring that out of your clients? How do you get your clients to hone in on their ICP and stay there and take that message to the market and activate those prospects when they reach them?

Seth Donlin (19:17)
There's a few things. mean, first of all, they need to get clarity with what their message is. A lot of people, you know, you're if you're an expert in your field, you have a lot of information in your head and you don't necessarily.

always relate to your customer as well as you should. Hopefully, you know, if you've had the opportunity to do, you know, the market research that you need to do, and you've been in the field for a while, and you have testimonials, and you've been speaking to your, your clients, then you do have a good understanding of, of what they're going through. But when you bring a new product to market, you have you, you know, if you're a coach, and you're rolling out a new program for, you know, I'm going to help you with this new thing that I haven't pro

Previously been doing if you're rolling out a new product that you hadn't previously, you know, hey, this is a new We're expanding into a new line of business you're a restaurant and you're putting out a new menu or whatever You're not gonna have that You're probably not gonna have that depth of research that you have previously had in your core business and You're gonna have to make some assumptions until you get rolling a little bit

And the reality is that those of us that are experts in our field, know, again, we go to a like a restaurant, a chef has a greater understanding of food and probably a wider palette and stuff like that than their clientele. And they might get, well, think that they're gonna really, you know, the diners are gonna really respond to this thing. And it turns out the diners don't respond to that because they want, you know.

They want more of the same. They're more interested in classics with a slight flair than you, you know, trying out your new fusion cuisine techniques or something like that, right? And so part of it is, is the initial experimentation with your message to find out what really gets traction with the audience.

And podcasting is a great way to do that, right? So I'm on your show here, you're asking me questions. Sometimes you're going to ask me questions, and I'm going to answer something that I think is like, you know, well, everybody knows that or you know, that's not a I mean, like that wasn't all that profound. And you as the host are going to say, my god, that's like, I've actually never heard somebody quite frame it that way. Or that's a really interesting point. I've never

You know, like I never put two and two together that way. And you might say, Hey, audience, like pay attention. That was a real gem. Like that was a knowledge bomb that he dropped or something. And then I am going to think, huh. Okay, I didn't really think that that was that, you know, that I didn't think that that was that profound or that that was really all that much of a gem. But, you know, he knows his audience.

maybe you're my audience, Nick, right? And so I say, okay, I need to lean more into that messaging. That's messaging that's clearly resonating, right? And so podcasts can be really helpful in terms of that. Then you go back to the comments that the show is getting on the episode that you were on and people are like, I loved it when Seth said this, that, the next thing. It's like, okay.

I need to be leaning more heavily in those directions, right? So podcasting is a great way to kind of get that information, that feedback. And again, early on, you're gonna need that feedback.

clearly the opposite side could happen too, right? You can ask me something and I can say, I've got such a good answer. And then I answer, hey, you you're not going to be like stinker, but you know, like, you're like, okay, so moving on to the next thing. And, you know, if I'm being aware, I'm like, okay, I guess that didn't land all that way. He wasn't all that excited with that answer that so, you know, you've got to be open to failing when you

Nick Berry (22:47)
Yeah.

Seth Donlin (22:57)
when you're trying your message, right? So once you get clarity on what your message is, then you need to figure out how to present it in a way that is relatable to your audience and actionable to your audience, right? And so part of the relatability is in...

Nick Berry (22:58)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Donlin (23:16)
they on podcasts, so many people have a an idea that like, they understand that they should use story in podcasting story helps us. The brain is naturally wired to to relate to stories in a different way than they relate to information obtained through other meat through other channels and mediums, right? They've done MRI, right studies where

You look at somebody and they're reading information from a table, they're reading a textbook, they're getting information in various ways, and then somebody starts telling them their story and whole different areas of the brain start lighting up. And the areas of the brain that encode information actually start lighting up to a greater degree than when they were just straight getting facts from a news report or a book or whatever the case may be.

Nick Berry (23:49)
like that.

Seth Donlin (24:02)
So, okay, so we understand that story that we need to be using stories. But many of us start thinking about stories in the way of, I don't know if you've ever, you if you know who Jocko Willink is, but Jocko Willink is a, you know, he led all the SEALs in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think in Iraq. And, you know, he has this amazing story. And it's like, I, you know, I'm never gonna lead all the SEALs in Iraq. And I'm never gonna have very

unlikely to have some kind of story that's as amazing and as impressive as Jocko Willink. And if I come to a podcast and think that's what storytelling is, that's what business storytelling is like, look, I read Jocko Willink's book. And then I read a book about somebody that like climbed Everest and had to cut their leg off and then saved four orphans and then did this other thing. And then the next book I read was about somebody that went to the Olympics, even though

they'd been in a car crash and you know all and it's like yeah we read these books and they're amazing and they give us this idea that stories have to be larger than life and stories don't have to be larger than life I mean I started this episode off with a story about me as a kid going to get trucks to blow their air horns for you know for me so

The thing with the Air Horn story is it's a very relatable story. Not everybody relates to that story, but all the time I tell that story on, I don't tell on an angry podcast, but when I tell that story on a podcast, I would say 75 % or more of the time the host says something like, either one, I did that as a kid.

Right after the show's, we're done recording and they're like, oh, hey, that was a good episode. Thanks. I, know, blah, blah, blah. And then they're like, I love that story. I did that as a kid, one, or two, they say, I was totally with you. Like when you talked about your friend Keith's John Deere trucker cap, like I, I, you know, like my brother had one of those as a kid or whatever, right? Like people, right. They're like, oh, the details, like I really, you know, like I could.

Nick Berry (26:00)
I could see you. I could see you there.

Seth Donlin (26:06)
I could see that story like you're saying, feel that story. And that's a very relatable story, right? Everybody did silly things like that as a kid, even if you weren't doing that exact thing. And so, yeah, was it as impressive? Were you like, my God, Seth got truckers to blow their hair horns. No, it's not Chaka Willink leading special forces teams in Iraq, but...

It's a story that we can all relate to. makes you understand, it makes you feel that you know me a little bit more, and the way that the brain works. There's a psychological principle called the mirror exposure effect. And it describes the fact that the more you see something, the more familiar you get with it, just by seeing it. And the more familiar you get with something,

The more you tend to like that thing Because things initially are scary to us where like when you see something for the first time we're like, i'm not certain about that and then when you see it over and over and over again, you become familiar and you Things that are familiar to us no longer become scary. And if they're no longer scary we're talking subconsciously. It's not like you're afraid of You know run in fear from something But subconsciously the more familiar we've come with something

the more we begin to like it. And relatable stories help in that way, right? Because as you begin to feel that you're like, okay, Seth, he did this as a kid, I did similar things as a kid, that's cool, I like him, I can relate to him, right? Now, naturally, if I

Nick Berry (27:37)
Mm-hmm. And start to empathize.

Seth Donlin (27:42)
I'm not going to turn around and be like, okay, now Nick, buy my thing. Right. But you're one step closer to buying something from me, hiring me to do something for you. Right. Because you like me just that little bit more. And if you think about it, if you've got a friend that does, again, we'll go to the roofing example. These people aren't personal friends, but

If I had a friend that was a roofer, I wouldn't be out there looking for different quotes from them. I'd be like, hey, Nick, come fix my roof. If you like somebody, you just are naturally going to go to them when you need a service or a product from them. So your first step is, OK, get clarity on your message. The second step is start designing your message in a way that it helps you to become more and more relatable.

Nick Berry (28:21)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Donlin (28:33)
And then the third step is to just put in the reps. You've got to continue to work on your message. You've got to continue to get in that batting cage and take swings at it. Because the more and more you work on your messaging, the more refined it's going to get, the more comfortable you're going to get delivering it. And all of that is going to then

Again, psychologically, right, the more confident you sound in your message, the more people are going to believe your message. And that's going to only help to kind of raise your level of credibility, raise, you know, in other people's eyes, you are going to more easily be seen as an expert and a leader in your field when you're presenting your message in a way that you seem very confident about.

Nick Berry (29:23)
And that's what you coach you're looking for business owners, people who are trying to establish or further establish themselves as the authority in their field and help them kind of bring this, maybe sharpen their message, put it into a format that's more relatable, that carries a little bit further.

Seth Donlin (29:42)
Absolutely correct. mean, I'm working primarily with service providers or higher level executives, people that maybe, I'm starting to work with a lot of people that are kind of second act in their career. Maybe they've had an exit from a company that they started or they were a senior level person in some company and they've got a great package and they stepped back and they're

You know, they're done traveling the world and they're they're saying, okay, well, I'm too young to retire. I want to start something new and exciting. And, you know, they're not going to go back to doing exactly what they were doing before. So now they need to reposition themselves. They need to work on their personal brand and kind of, you know, move it in the direction they're moving it. Or like you were saying, people that are, you know, are at a position in their career.

their solopreneurs, their consultants or whatever, they're looking to, you know, they're looking to expand their business, they're looking to get a bigger presence within their industry so that people see them as the go to person to come to for whatever service they're providing, whether that's physical training, whether that's financial advice, whether that's, you know, sales training, you know, whatever the case may be. And

Yeah, you know, so many people are, are very confident in their expertise in what they do. But then when you get them out of their comfort zone of actually working in their area of expertise, and you put them on a podcast, or you put them on a stage where they're going to keynote or be on a panel or something like that. And suddenly, a lot of that imposter syndrome,

and stage fright and things like that start to come up. Whereas they have no problem, you know, sitting down across the table with somebody and being owning their, their, you know, expertise in the, in the area that they're working on. And so they're, you know, there's things that they, things that we need to work on. you know, as I, as we were discussing, one of them is getting comfortable in that

area of being relatable, even if they know what their messaging is. Okay, how do we deliver in a way that's relatable? And in a way that's authentic to who you are and who you're wanting to be for your customers, right? I was on a podcast a couple well, it hasn't. No, it has dropped. It's out.

But it was a quick turnaround. So it was probably about a month ago, I recorded an episode with these two guys that are out of Long Island. And they had like a childhood friend that is third generation or something, financial advisors. And it was interesting to hear that they're kind of similar to myself, marketing, positioning, branding people.

And they're talking to their buddy about his family. Now he's, you know, took it over from his father and who took it, taken it over from the grandfather. And he was talking about how they, despite the fact that they're financial advisors, they don't wear the blue suit and tie. They're in jeans and like polo shirts in the office. And they're joking about they were making all of these like Monty Python

jokes and movie references and stuff like that. Because he said, look, you know, the blue suit and stuff like I can wear a blue suit or not wear a blue suit. doesn't affect my knowledge of the markets and how to advise you financially. And quite frankly, I just don't want to wear a blue suit. And the people that work for me don't want to wear a blue suit. And so if you are turned off by the fact that we don't wear blue suits, that's fine. Go get a different financial advisor. But if you like, you know,

We've been in business for 80 years or whatever, and here's our track record, but we're not gonna wear a blue suit, we're gonna be in jeans and polo shirts, and we are going to, we're gonna make a lot of jokes while you're in the office and stuff like that. And that's, I am led to believe via this pod, via the episode that I listened to.

Nick Berry (33:33)
and

Seth Donlin (33:38)
That he's doing just fine, you know, like that decision to brand himself and his business. His father didn't brand the business in that way, but his decision to brand himself and in turn the business and the people that he works with, it hasn't hurt his business at all. And it's made him enjoy his business that much more, right? So we all are gonna have, we're gonna choose to brand ourselves in different ways. How you get...

Nick Berry (33:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Seth Donlin (34:03)
comfortable with.

being true to who you are, being authentic with who you are, and not be worrying, not worry about how you think you should be and how like, you know, I want people to perceive me this way, not because I really want to be this way. But I just want people to perceive me that way. Right? It's like, it's a big world. There's lots of clients, there's lots of customers like, figure out who you really want to be.

Nick Berry (34:23)
you

Seth Donlin (34:31)
And, you know, I can try to help you with that, but figure out who you really want to be. And then let's figure out how to authentically and relatedly message so that people get that and the people who really light up for that, the people that are like, this is great. I want to go into a financial advisor where people are just people and they're relaxed and it's not all stuffy and wingtip shoes and all that kind of stuff. Then they're going to come to you.

Nick Berry (34:57)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Donlin (34:58)
and you're not gonna have to chase those people.

Nick Berry (35:00)
It sounds

like you're going, it's not just a strategy. there's a mindset component to it.

Seth Donlin (35:06)
yeah, absolutely. There's a big mindset component to it because people, you know, people have to get comfortable. You know, we started out talking about the people have to get comfortable with the fact that they're not going to be for everyone, and that they're going to be, you know, repelling people with their choice of how they're going to build their personal brand. And, you know, I want to make it really clear.

I'm the type of person that naturally like I don't I'm not one of those people that says like, hey, I'm not for everyone. And so if you don't like me, F you, I'm going to be real abrasive and tell you I don't care what you think and push it like I'm actually the type of person that if I feel like I'm not getting along with somebody, I'm not going to put a ton of energy into trying to win them over.

But I'm also going to be perfectly civil to them. I'm going to try to have as pleasant and enjoyable an interaction with them. You know, unless they're like, you know, I'm in a mixed race family, right? My wife's African American. We have a mixed race child. Like if somebody's being racist or something, I'm not going to be like, okay. Like I'm going to get along with the racist person. But otherwise.

We can differ. We don't have to agree on everything. I can be perfectly pleasant to you, but I'm not going to worry if you are disagreeing with me. I'm not going to try to craft my message to somehow win you over. Right? So you can get into a mindset where you're like, look, I'm not for everyone. That doesn't mean you don't have that. You can't be pleasant. You can't be friendly. You can't relate with other people, but you want to make sure that you're messaging and the

brand that you're building and the person that you're trying to be is going to be.

drawing in the type of person that you're going to most enjoy working with. I mean, we've got one life. It's your business. even for the people that are working in a corporate environment, it's your career. I'm not saying burn your bridges and whatever, but you can go find another job. I'm not saying quit and go find another job, but we've all changed jobs, right? You can

decide Who you want to be how you want to work? What type of people you want to work with and position yourself to move in that direction and be that way and if you and if you don't want to you know If you don't want to wear suit and tie don't wear one and if you want to wear a suit and tie I mean I I don't but I worked in I worked in Jobs for years for the first

40 something years of my life, I worked in jobs where I had to wear a suit and tie every day. And I actually like wearing suits and ties. I've got nothing against it. But it's nice not to have to put it on. since I don't have to, I don't.

Nick Berry (37:47)
Yeah. What I'm hearing you say is if you get really clear on who you want to be or what you're aspiring to be, then you can do more of it on your own terms that way. And there are some things, some concessions that are going to have to be made, right? Like the guys, the financial advisors that were not wearing the suits, like they're not successful because they're not wearing suits. They're successful. They've proven themselves to be able to...

to do their job really, really well. And they're able to not wear the suits. And they've kind of like created that narrative. Like this is who we are, which includes this performance and also this look.

Seth Donlin (38:23)
Yeah, I mean, I have a cousin that is a very successful senior VP of a nationally known, you know, financial advisory firm. And

He's also a black belt in Brazilian jujitsu and teach, you know, he doesn't have his own like studio. He's an assistant instructor in somebody's studio. He's got a cauliflower ear from having like fought so much in the ring and stuff like that, right? He wears a coat and, you know, suit and tie to work. And he, you know, manages millions and millions of dollars worth of money. And he's very successful at what he does. Now, that's on my stepfather's side of the family, my mother's side of the family, my grandfather,

owned a financial advisory firm. And he you know, he was such a straight laced guy. Like, my cousin with the tattoos in the cauliflower ear like that would not have flown that was just not going to happen in his firm, right?

But it hasn't hurt my cousin. He does just fine. I think probably my cousin could certainly have survived in my grandfather's business or whatever and just under the suit. You don't see the tattoos and he could keep his martial arts aspect of his life to himself and not talk about it around the office or whatever. And he could have survived that, but.

why when he can go work for someplace else where they are, they have no problem with who he is as a more complete person. Right. And I've got to believe that there's probably right. Plenty of people out there that have money to invest that are like, I practice BJJ too. You've like, you practice BJJ. You've actually fought like in fight professionally, but like, you know, you've, you've like won cops at tournaments and like, yeah, I want to.

I want you to invest my money because I want to hang out with you when it comes time for me to sit across the desk with you and discuss my strategy. And I want to be talking to a guy that I really can relate to and that I feel gets me, right? So it's also a

Nick Berry (40:18)
or late too.

Seth Donlin (40:22)
That's very scary though, right? Because most of us, to some degree or another, we have a fear of rejection. And we have a fear that if we are honest about who we are, people are not going to like who we are, or not enough people are going to like who we are. And we're going to then be ostracized off into the forest to die alone, right? The village is going to kick us out.

And our business is going to fail because the client customers are going to say, I don't want to deal with that guy. He's, you know, got tattoos and does BJJ or whatever. Right. So it's scary, but

Nick Berry (40:54)
And then...

Seth Donlin (40:57)
The ultimate success is on the other side of that fear, right? Like if you don't put yourself out there, then you don't get to attract the customers that are really going to love you and that you're really going to love them. And ultimately, isn't that what we really want? I mean, you can make a lot of money working with customers that you absolutely love working with. You can make a lot of money working with customers that you really don't enjoy working with. mean, so if you have your choice, why wouldn't you pick, you know?

Why wouldn't you pick the, love working with these people versus the, don't like working with these people.

Nick Berry (41:29)
Right. Absolutely. You just have to open your mind to that it's possible and be willing to work through the discomfort enough to put yourself in that position. Where can we find out more about your programs?

Seth Donlin (41:42)
Yeah, sure. I have a couple of people are interested in podcasting or guesting on podcasts, which is not when I'm working with people on their personal brands. This is not it. I'm not like, look, you go on podcasts and that's it. that's magic. It just works that way. But it's a core component of what I what I teach people to do for a few reasons. One, it's just hugely efficient. mean, Nick, you've bought you.

built this great audience of people who follow you and listen to your show on a weekly basis. And it took me a little bit of an effort to get on your show, but way less of an effort to get on your show than it took you to build your audience. And guess what? I'm speaking in front of your audience. And I'm not only just speaking in front of your audience, but you've introduced me as an expert and lent me some of your, like, the trust that your audience has in you. Now they're trusting me a little bit too, or else you wouldn't have brought me on the show, right?

So podcasting is a huge part of what I work on with people. And so I have a couple of programs. One is the Guest Success Accelerator, which is a six week program designed for people who are really getting serious about podcasting and want to up level their podcasting skills, understand the medium better, understand the tricks.

to being a better guest, podcasting is different than getting on stage. And if you were going to be on stage a lot, you'd probably hire a public speaking coach. And they would teach you things that were specific about the stage. I have another program that revolves around podcasting called Rapid Guest Success Laser Coaching. And it is kind of like having me on retainer.

It is unlimited, 10 minute calls with me. And it's really designed for folks that are, you know, they've gotten pretty dialed in on where they are with their podcasting, podcast guesting, but they're going to be doing on a regular basis. And they see the value in having somebody that can give them a tune up, somebody that they can call saying, I've got a big one coming up. want to schedule a few sessions with you to work out a few things. And so, you know, if you're interested in,

using podcasts a lot and getting better at that. are my two programs for that.

Nick Berry (43:49)
Okay. And that is on at SethDonlin.com where we go to get more information. Got it. I'll make sure that's all in the, in the show notes as well.

Seth Donlin (43:54)
Good, that's

I would just challenge, um, you know, a little challenge for the audience and I'll use you as a stand in for the audience, Nick, but it's, know, we didn't dive deeply into the importance of storytelling on, on this particular podcast, but I think that one thing that, um, you know, I really encourage people to, lean heavily into storytelling. And I told the story at the beginning of the episode.

There were a lot of little details in that story that weren't germane really to the overall point, right? I talked about my best friend. I used his name. I talked about what he was wearing and what I was wearing. I talked about what we packed for lunch and stuff like that. And I would say, do you remember Nick? Do you remember my friend's name? Do you remember what we were packing for lunch?

Nick Berry (44:47)
Yep, bologna and cheese and peanut butter and jelly. Right?

Seth Donlin (44:50)
Yeah,

and do you remember what we were wearing on our heads?

Nick Berry (44:53)
remember

the John Deere hat and you had the Army helmet.

Seth Donlin (44:58)
That's

right. And so, you know, none of those facts were important to getting the point of the story, which is that you need to focus your message. It wasn't important even to the frame of the story about truckers and air horns or anything like that. But you still remember those details.

And you didn't have to work real hard to remember them because they were told in a story and we remember things really well when they're provided to us via a story. so, you know, I think a nice way to close things out is to bookend it with the, I told the story and here it is for, you know, half an hour, 40 minutes later, whatever it's been. And you still remember those details and they weren't even the important details. So imagine

When you convey something important via a story, people are really going to remember it. And that's one of the ways that you become relatable and memorable and, you know, inspirational to your audiences through connecting with them via these stories.

Nick Berry (45:59)
As you were going through that was just really hitting me how much more I need to be doing this for myself, that story in particular,

and how clearly I remembered it makes it even more evident.

Seth Donlin (46:11)
Yeah, and just, you know, for anybody that maybe is thinking the same way that you are, Nick, and like, I, you know, this is, I need to work on this. And it can possibly sound, you know, I know for some people, it sounds very daunting, but just remember, I mean, if I last closing point.

We are all natural storytellers. We all grew up as kids telling stories. We always were telling our parents' stories and our siblings' stories and our friends' stories. And we wanted stories. We were begging for bedtime stories. As young people, our lives are just immersed in story. And some of us continue to do that professionally in some way or another.

And many, most of us don't. it's not storytelling is not a new skill that you're going to have to learn. It's like riding a bike, right? You're going to be rusty at it when you get back into it, but you're not learning it. You're getting back into it. What you're learning is you're learning to do it better and at a higher level, but you're not starting from scratch. We all know how to tell stories and we all know how to tell

good stories, we just need to get back into practice.

Nick Berry (47:20)
Yeah,

I believe that. I would speculate that there are areas of our lives where we tell stories more and for whatever reason, don't use that skill as often in this area. I know that's case with me. So yeah.

Seth Donlin (47:34)
Mm hmm. Right.

Yeah, I mean, everybody, you get you get back from lunch at work, if you work in an office and how often you're like, my God, you can't you won't you're not going to believe what I saw while I was out grabbing lunch or something. I mean, like, it's you know, that's not like an award winning story. You're not going to go on the moth story slam competition and win with that story. But it was a story. We tell them every day. Yeah. Yep.

Nick Berry (47:57)
Right. You use the muscle. Fantastic.

Well, Seth, thank you. This was great.

Seth Donlin (48:04)
Well, thanks, Nick. I really appreciate coming on the show. Like I said, you did all the hard work of building the audience and then I get to reap the rewards. So I'm honored that you brought me on and I really appreciate it. I hope the audience got a lot out of it.