Twisted Remedies - Episode 13 - Professor Mike DesRosiers

From Bullying to Black Belt The Resilience of the Honey Badger

In this episode of the Twisted Remedies podcast, Mike "Don't call me professor" DesRosiers shares his extensive journey through martial arts, detailing how his early experiences with bullying led him to pursue various forms of combat training. He discusses the significance of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in his life, the challenges of teaching, and the mental resilience required to succeed in martial arts. The conversation highlights the importance of community, the benefits of cross-training, and the common struggles practitioners face, including plateaus and injuries. Ultimately, Mike emphasizes the healing power of Jiu-Jitsu and the necessity of maintaining a positive mindset throughout the journey. In this conversation, Mike shares his experiences and insights on the importance of continuous training in Jiu Jitsu, the challenges of managing injuries, and the mental health benefits of physical activity. He discusses the origin of his nickname 'Honey Badger' and his role in establishing police training programs in Vermont. The conversation also touches on the difficulties of getting law enforcement to engage in training, the balance between physical and mental health, and upcoming events in the Jiu Jitsu community.

Thank you for listening.  Please don't hesitate to contact me at Twistedremedies.com

Take care of yourselves, and each other.

Transcript

Justin (00:02.359)
And we're back here on Twisted Remedies podcast. My guest today is Professor Mike DesRosiers from South Burlington, Vermont. Mike is a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu, trains several martial arts, also first-dan black belt in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, 10 years in Muay Thai, lots of MMA, lots of in-ring experience, and is the lead grappling instructor at UFAI United Fighting Arts Institute in South Burlington, Vermont I rattled a lot of that off the top of my head because Mike is UFAI is where I trained so that Makes all of that easy for me to remember for anyone listening who knows Mike. He also affectionately goes by honey badger, which I'll let him get into your into here at some point and

talk about the origin of that but mike thanks for thanks for coming on

Mike D (01:03.458)
Yeah, thanks for having me, man. Not a problem.

Justin (01:07.749)
Great. What got you started in martial arts across the board? was your first kind of foray into that?

Mike D (01:18.094)
So basically, I mean, I'm old, you know, I was born in the 70s. I loved a martial arts movie, so know, like American Ninja, you know, all that cheesy stuff, and I loved it. And, you know, I was like, cool, that looks really cool. I wanna learn it. Had a Taekwondo place that was near me, that was friends of the family. was like, I think I was 11 or 12 when I first, you know, said,

I'm gonna go try it. And it was actually held in our gym slash cafeteria at our small elementary school. And I went there for a little bit and I was like, this is really cool. I did it for like, I want to say like a year or two. And then, you know, I fell out of it. And then, you know, I would, I would train at home, you know, like self-trained stuff, like still, you know, I try to keep going on that.

Yeah, and that was my first actual taste in martial arts. It wasn't anything overly cool, but it gave me a taste for it.

Justin (02:24.281)
Right. And then so where does it go from there?

Mike D (02:25.176)
So.

So from there, basically I started getting bullied, I think I was around 13 or 14, so right after Taekwondo. Pretty bad, so most stories, I with a of people who are in martial arts, they were bullied. So I started wrestling around with a lot of my friends and I always got my ass kicked. I really started hitting the gym note and lifting weights. I was like 16 or 17 and I got up to like,

210. So I mean, I was pretty solid and that kind of stopped all that. But I mean, it was always, you know, in the back of my head that, hey, you know, I want to do this more. And then I moved out of my hometown, which is Randolph, Vermont. It's really small and there is absolutely nothing to do there. So I moved up to Burlington and I was actually a bouncer. I don't know how far back you go, but Bambino's.

Off of Shelburne Road in Burlington was where I started. was I think I was 19 when I started there and I mean a Lot of fights happen there. I discovered real quick that I couldn't just hit everybody A lot of wrestlers were still, you know, I'm beating the shit out of me as well. I like, god damn it. Okay, and then also In 93, I think it was October was when the first UFC came out and a buddy of mine's like dude

Justin (03:55.301)
Right.

Mike D (03:56.856)
You really have to look at this. And, you know, I was watching it and I was always intrigued by the blood sport aspect of it, know, like art versus art, you know, and that is, I mean, exactly what that was. And I was like, holy shit, okay. So this hoist guy knows what's going on. And then I actually looked right in the phone book, you know, because back then it was an actual book. And it was a place, yeah, right. And there was actually a place in Stowe, Vermont that, you know,

Justin (04:18.401)
pay an actual paper phone book.

Mike D (04:26.808)
taught Brazilian Jiu Jitsu so I was like cool so so I hopped on the phone because again back then internet wasn't really around so I called the guy up barely spoke any English you know and told me where the place was but I mean I never pulled the trigger on it you know like I mean I knew where it was I wanted to do it but I just never pulled the trigger so instead I actually started taking my keto

So I mean, I took Aikido for two years, which is great in theory. However, it is horrible in practice. Horrible. I mean, I don't want to knock the art, but I mean, it's really only an art. So I mean, I had fun doing it, but it didn't work for anything. And then I think it was around 98. I said, you know what, screw it. I really want to get into this. So.

So on the same day I actually started a shallow temple karate a Japanese jujitsu at a place on Church Street and then a later that night I actually went to My first ever a Brazilian jujitsu class So I started both of the same exact day I can tell you my first class was probably like everybody else's class. I Absolutely got my ass handed

No idea what was going on. I got beat up and like right afterwards I was like, this is it. I love this and you know, I'm never going to stop. And that's it. You know, sort of, sort of all, I mean a package together. I also did do some we tie with a bunch of friends of mine. wasn't anything overly formal. but I think I started that back in 94 because one of the bouncers at Bambino's, knew some, some kickboxing and he knew this, you know,

Justin (06:09.748)
Right.

Mike D (06:23.438)
really tiny Thai guy who lived in Burlington who sort of knew some stuff. But the Jiu Jitsu part of it man, as you know, once you know you know. And that was it.

Justin (06:37.069)
Right. so that's the one that really, I mean, you still obviously trained in other stuff, but you just use the one that really got your attention and kept your attention.

Mike D (06:46.458)
yeah, 100%. And as people know, it's probably one of the hardest arts in the world. And of course, my dumb ass is like, hey, know, I'm never gonna stop this and I wanna get a black belt eventually. yeah. Yeah, yeah. A lot of aches and pains and I mean, everybody's journey's different, but.

Justin (07:00.301)
Well that worked.

Justin (07:05.029)
So.

Justin (07:08.475)
Right, right. I'm interested, you know, I've heard you talk a bunch of times about kind of your progression through things. And I know you have some opinions about like the, some of the really traditional things that can go on in a school versus, know,

I know you had like you trained someplace and then you went you know and did your own thing and there was there was some I don't want to say controversy, but maybe that's the right word, but I Mean what yeah if you're whatever you're comfortable talking about I think you know to the extent that if there's somebody else who who finds themselves in a similar thing and has questions on how do I handle this I think you you have been through a lot of these things

Mike D (07:43.618)
I can tell that story if you want. It's one of my favorite stories to tell.

Mike D (07:56.824)
Sure.

Mike D (08:02.466)
Yeah, so for those that don't know, I part of my split from my original school was, you he said, you know, hey, don't ever mention, you know, that I was your professor and all this other stuff, which I really don't get because, you know, I was, I was there for what? 10 years. And he's a really good instructor. I mean, it's where, you know, I got almost all of my BJJ.

So I mean, that kind of baffled me, but I was like, okay, Okay, you know, whatever works for you. So basically...

With my old professor's blessing, I was allowed to teach over at UFAI. I think I started that in 08, it might have been 06. I could be completely wrong on that. And I mean, I was paying my monthly dues and everything. I was still training over there. I was only teaching on Saturdays. I was only allowed to teach nogi, so I was just doing nogi. And then I remember it.

very very vividly one day I think it was three of the black belts there actually stopped by the school and they said hey you know how are things going I said you know great whatever and they're like listen so you're never gonna get your black belt and I was like what he's like yeah you know so he was talking to us and he said you know I bet you're never gonna get your black belt because you know you're not a great teacher and your digits are bad and all this other stuff and was like what the hell

You know, I'm paying this guy, he was like a brother to me for a long time, you know, I actually helped him run his MMA event in Vermont. I was like, okay, that's weird. So, you know, I thought about it for a while and I was like, okay, well, you know, I should just split, you know, I'll let bygones be bygones. So, I actually had a sit down meeting with him. was like, hey, you know, I don't think, I don't think I thought I wanna, you know.

Mike D (10:06.574)
train with you anymore it's nothing against you but you know I kind of want to do my own thing and right then and there's like okay you know I understand completely you know good luck you know in a nutshell I was like cool and then you know I started teaching and doing my thing and then it was like months later me me me and Deb and Chris all that served with an order saying that you know

Justin (10:19.386)
Right.

Mike D (10:34.574)
I can't teach a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu because he owns it. So then we went to Chris' lawyer and his lawyer's like, no, fight this. It's an easy fight. And as soon as we pushed back, he dropped the whole thing. But I mean, it was a mess for a while and I was like, I don't get that part of it. But I mean, a lot of people also, sorry, go ahead.

Justin (10:57.153)
Right and so for for For perspective you were a brown belt when this all happened right like you were this wasn't like you were you were a blue belt going to teach somewhere and he got sideways this was your Europe you're a brown belt who's been doing this for for quite a while

Mike D (11:08.916)
No, no, no.

Mike D (11:14.702)
Yeah, I think I got my brown belt around 04. Might have been 03. So I was about a three or four year brown belt at this point. And I was seeing guys, you know, who, I mean, I consider friends, but they were getting their black belts. And I was like, wait a minute. I started three, four years after, or sorry, before these guys, something's going on, you know? And I was, I mean, I was training probably five or six days a week, steady.

Because I mean I had the bug as you know and I was always the first one there and last to leave and so something was going on

Justin (11:48.25)
Right.

Mike D (11:54.008)
was the point there. I know that there's been some other people who have split from this place who have had the same exact thing happen.

Justin (11:54.885)
Yeah.

Mike D (12:04.258)
So I don't know why, I don't know, I mean, it shouldn't happen, but I mean, it does.

Justin (12:11.57)
Yeah. Well, you mentioned that you mentioned the bug and a couple of times and I'm curious if you what is it about jujitsu that that grabs a whole like it grabbed a hold of me and I don't want it to let go, but it's not going to let go. And I like to the point where I've got my knees are jammed up. I got a bad toe now. I had my fingers screwed up today, which obviously

Mike D (12:28.451)
Right?

Mike D (12:34.958)
no, it just gets worse, man. It just gets worse.

Justin (12:37.697)
I know I know it comes from preaching to the choir or the choir director but like what is it about jiu-jitsu that that just gets us

Mike D (12:47.928)
So I mean, for everybody it's different and I mean, know, being a teacher for as long as I've taught, I mean, I've been doing this for what, 26 years now. And I mean, I've seen a lot of different journeys for people. I can say for me, mean,

I've never been one to just sit on my ass. know, even as a kid, I was always out hiking, you know, I would just be gone for hours and hours just, you know, walking through the woods and getting in trouble. You know, a bridge jumping, swimming, like all that stuff. Like I've never been known to sit around. And as soon as I did this, I was like, okay, this is really hard. So I mean, I want to learn it. You know, I'm getting my ass handed to me. Like, you know, I was a big dude and I mean, I wasn't, you know,

Untrained but I mean I felt like a child. I was like, okay. I need to learn this whereas, you know some people Some people when that happens to them They never come back because they can't handle it. But I mean, you know, I'm the opposite I was like, holy shit. I need to learn this. This is a superpower and I mean ever since I've just been going and going I mean my body is really telling me to stop over the last like five years, but I Don't listen to it

Justin (13:46.906)
Right.

Justin (13:53.124)
Right.

Justin (14:11.961)
Yeah, I'm apparently of the same wiring, because I'm listening, but I'm not listening that well.

Mike D (14:16.204)
Yeah.

Mike D (14:21.804)
Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, you know, so as you know, there's a lot of, you know, former military at our school, law enforcement. And, you know, I hear from them that they have the same, you know, camaraderie with people because, you know, we are we are all on the mat battling. So basically, you know, we're all there together, you know, and we're all suffering through it, but it's fun.

Justin (14:33.392)
Yep.

Justin (14:44.773)
Right.

Mike D (14:50.584)
Some days it's not fun, but most times it's fun, and we all, I can talk about it with each other because we're all there in it. And a lot of vets are saying the same thing, who have been dealing with a lot of hard PTSD. They've just been lost, and then they start doing jiu-jitsu, and I've had guys that are going, holy shit, this has really saved me. And that feels good to hear.

Justin (15:19.279)
Yeah, that's essentially what it, you I thank Dave every time I see him because Dave inviting me to come to class was essentially, I'm still here because of that. that's, you know, that was a big part of my recovery is finding Jiu Jitsu. it's funny, you said some days aren't fun.

Mike D (15:35.618)
Yeah. Yeah.

Justin (15:46.459)
Even the even the days that aren't fun though, at the end of the like, they're still fun. It's just there's a certain amount of stuff. Yeah, there's suck involved. But but after it's fun. Yeah, it's

Mike D (15:50.624)
afterwards it's yeah.

Mike D (15:55.788)
Yeah, yeah, like I tell people, know, like, mean, everybody, everybody hits those walls and they don't want to train. And I tell people, I was like, show up anyway, because afterwards you're going to feel so much better. Like there's days where, you know, I am hurting, you know, I've worked all day. I want to go to class. And then I go to class and afterwards I'm like, thank God I went to class. You know?

Justin (16:18.745)
Yeah. Yeah, that was that was actually Friday for me. I was driving in there and just, you know, in a funk and angry and just in a mood. And I got there. And by the time I left, I big smile on. I was talking to Sergio today and he was like, I could tell the difference from when you walked into the door when you left that there was a, you know, so it's it's such a it's such a bizarre thing how it just it can flip a switch for you and get you back on on track. Yeah.

Mike D (16:44.29)
Yeah, 100%. 100%.

Justin (16:49.141)
On the the top so this this the situation you described or you ended up you know going and and kind of leaving the school you were at it's interesting there's. I mean, I haven't been doing this a fraction as long as you have, but I see these like there are schools where.

people are encouraged to go and train other places and, you know, and come back and see what's out there. And then there are places that are like, won't, you won't, you know, talk to anybody about this. Don't go anywhere else. If I hear you're going somewhere, you're, know, you have always been very encouraging for people. Hey, go try this other thing out. Go try this other place out. Train everywhere. What are your like, what are your thoughts? Like, why is that your?

Why is that an important approach? Because I agree with you. think that is I think it's important to get other perspectives and other other things.

Mike D (17:43.266)
Yeah, I mean the biggest thing for me and I mean a lot of my friends who still train at this other place still feel this way. I'm not gonna throw them under the bus, you know, so back when I was training where I was training it was very old school in that, you you couldn't go to other open mats. You couldn't go train anywhere else, you know, had to be at a affiliated gym. You know, if this person saw any...

social media posts or photos of you training at another place and this actually did happen, he would just basically ex-communicate them. And one thing that was said a lot, and I just found out probably over the last year from some people who asked me if this could be done, that, so this certain person was saying, hey, if I ever throw you out, then you'll be banned from IBG and JF. And I was like, that's not a thing.

I said, that's no, so that isn't a thing. And they didn't know that until I explained it to them. So I mean, you know, I felt kind of trapped there because, I wanted to go, you know, and see some friends who trained elsewhere, you know, and go roll elsewhere. And a lot of us did, but we couldn't talk about it there. We couldn't have photos of it, you know, and it just felt like, you know, why am I paying this guy to show me something? He's not my father. He's not my...

Justin (19:03.907)
Right.

Mike D (19:09.612)
boss, you know, it's a service that, you know, he's offering. So I mean, it's not right. And that's been my mentality, you know, like people, you know, people come to me because they want to learn, you know, a jiu jitsu. Cool. I can do that. you know, and if somebody wants to go, you know, do an open mat or go train somewhere else, good, go train. As long as you're training, I don't give a shit. Go train because then I mean,

I mean I've had people leave and come back and they're like hey you know thank you for letting me do that you know because your whole you know a mentality and teaching method really fit with me so you know I want to be here I said great what'd you learn over there show me some stuff you know and vice versa.

Justin (19:57.795)
Right. Yeah, I mean, I think that makes a ton of sense that I've never I've never in the in the, you know, three plus years I've been training. I've never understood the and like, you know, the I love these like the Globetrotter camps I go to. And it's there's so much it's the same stuff. Right. that's awesome. I'm going to Arizona in next month. But there.

Mike D (20:17.708)
I'm going next year. Yeah. Yeah.

Are you going to Maine too?

Justin (20:27.643)
I'm not sure. I might. I haven't bought me a ticket yet. But if I may pick one up at the last minute, we'll see. But yeah, we'll see. But it's like there's so much. It's a lot of it's the same, but there's such nuanced little things about the way somebody else shows it or some little little component to like we did. We did a thing last year that, you know, is basic head and arm choke. But it was this little tweak and and

kind of concept around it that just was like, my god, didn't you know that it's such a great thing to pick up stuff and it just, I think it just makes everybody better. So I've never really understood.

Mike D (21:07.394)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny that you say that too, because I mean, me and Dennis and Craig were talking about, you know, the other day, like, hey, you know, as a black belt, it's those little tiny tweaks and like, you know, small, easy, simple, stupidly simple adjustments that just blow our mind because one, holy shit, it makes sense. But two, we never thought of this and we've been doing this for a long time.

And it's like, my God, know, so the small, you know, grip that changes the whole move is just like, and I mean, it's great.

Justin (21:48.355)
Yeah, the other the other kind of you said this, I think it was promotion night back in July. You had said you were joking about how we're going to you're not losing people at Blue Belt anymore because you guilt them like you were so on on top of like you can't quit, you can't quit. now now it's like purple bells as soon as they get purple, they're drawn. What what you know?

Mike D (22:08.622)
I screwed myself on that one, Yeah. I mean the good part now too, mean. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, so I mean, so with that, mean, when I was coming up it was what? Late 90s, early 2000s, internet wasn't really huge. mean, you know, MySpace was big. I miss MySpace, that was so much fun. You know, Facebook had to have a college account. So I mean, there wasn't a lot of, you know, knowledge online. It was all books. Like I have a shit ton of books here.

Justin (22:17.049)
no go ahead

Justin (22:31.098)
you

Mike D (22:38.286)
But now you know everybody knows you know about the blue belt blues about you know a lot of people quit at blue belt back then it's like you had no idea you know I was like Why do I want to quit right now? Why do I suck? You know like what is it so I mean I try to tell people everything that I've learned Like right there straight out in the open. You know like you are gonna want to quit at blue belt trust me push through it So I mean I'm in everybody's head don't quit don't quit don't quit so then like you know

Once they get purple belt, it's kind of like a,

Mike D (23:14.158)
like, god damn it, that was it. But yeah, yeah.

Justin (23:20.027)
So do you think so whether it's you know, whether it's somebody who didn't listen and they go a blue or they wait till purple and hit eject what is it? Is it because they plateau and they don't know how to ride that out? Is it like what is it about that level generally that you think people?

Mike D (23:34.72)
It's life. mean, I can tell you, I mean, it's I mean, there's no secret. Life does not want you to do this all the time because, you know, people get married, you have kids, know, work is all over the place, know, trips come up, you get injured. That's a big one. People get injured and I mean, we don't want to sit out. So we train injured. It makes it worse. Until finally we're like, shit, you know, I need to go get this looked at and then surgery.

Okay, surgery, now you're down for weeks or months. Okay. I mean, in that time period, your body starts feeling great, but you're pissed off because you're not doing jujitsu, but you're like, holy shit, my arm feels great. I'm not going to go to class for, you know, an extra week or two. I'm going to do some fun stuff I haven't done before, you know, and then that turns to months. And then you're like, shit, you know, I got to go back to jujitsu. And then when you do go back, all those people that.

Justin (24:20.437)
Yeah, nothing hurts.

Mike D (24:34.562)
you could beat up before are now handling you because they've been training so you're like, my god I suck. So now you stop. I mean that happens a lot, you know? So, yeah.

Justin (24:51.867)
What's your advice for just plateaus at any, you know, whatever level somebody's at if they plateau? What's the course?

Mike D (25:02.54)
I just did it.

People hate my answers. I'm sure you've heard me say it. People hate my answers. I have people go, hey, how do I get out of a triangle? And I tell them, don't get stuck in a triangle. They hate that answer, figure out why you're getting stuck in a triangle. Then we'll work from there. And then I have people go, hey, I'm at a plateau. What do I do? Show up. I have people, they hate that answer, but that is the absolute secret.

to jiu-jitsu is keep showing up. Everybody learns different, everybody has different styles. You know, some people are just thick headed and keep doing the same dumb shit all the time. That's fine. Keep showing up because even on the days where you suck, you're still getting better. You don't see it. I see it. You know, and I mean, people hate that answer. I mean, it's pretty disheartening because, you know, they want a one, two and three. What do I do? One, two and three.

Justin (26:03.354)
Right.

Mike D (26:04.332)
show up. We can work on the rest but keep showing up. I can't help you if you're not showing up.

Justin (26:10.073)
Yeah, a lot of people want the formula of, what little thing can I do here? Yeah. And so the formulas show up.

Mike D (26:14.808)
Yup. Yup. And I can help him with that. mean, you know, so Gavin, he was a big one, you know, he's like, Mike, you know, I'm out here, you know, and I'm the highest belt, you know, before, you know, all the Tim Kennedy and all those people started kicking his ass, which is great because he needs that. But like, you know, he was the, you know, highest one out there. He's with white belts. He's like, how do I get better? And I'm like, that's a good question because, you know, when I went off on my own and I was teaching.

I started from zero. had white belts. I was a brown belt and I was still heavily competing. So I had to still train hard. How did I do that? I would put myself in the dumbest spots possible. The dumbest, like I would put myself in danger on purpose to try to work on getting out of stuff because you know, nobody could get me there because they were white belts, you know, or, know, smaller than me. Like, you know, I'm not a small guy. So I mean, if I'm working with a small person, I'm not gonna...

smash them on top. I'm gonna, here's an arm, take it. Now I'm gonna fight out of it, you know? And I mean, a big thing is, you know, don't always try to win. Like we are all apes, like we are all gorillas, all, know, like we wanna win. When you're at the school, try dumb shit. Like I tell people, was like, just try stuff you've never tried before. Just try it, you know, it's a lab. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. If it works, now you're on to something, build on

And that's how people come up with moves. I come up with the dumbest stuff that works because I just put myself in danger and I'll try stuff. But yeah, it's hard for us to want to lose. But a lot of people, I see them rolling and they get frustrated because they're getting their ass kicked and they're like, I suck, I suck, I suck. It's like, no, don't try to win. Try to learn stuff. And that took me years to understand.

Justin (28:06.393)
Yeah. Well, and I think again, I think sucking is part of the that's part of the journey. Like you're that's if like unless you're some, you know, phenomenal whatever that's I think that that's necessary for all the learning that you're talking about. That's necessary to get to that learning. Otherwise, you know, there's I don't know. It seems seems necessary. I don't enjoy it always, but it seems necessary.

Mike D (28:15.254)
yeah.

Mike D (28:29.964)
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. I mean, there's days, you know, where, where, you know, I can't do a move to save my life. And it's just like, man, you know, I'm just not, you know, I'm just not feeling it today. But then there's those, you know, I call them the juggernaut days. And I've had probably five or 10 in my whole 26 years where nobody could touch me.

no matter what rank they were, like I could catch anybody and I was like, holy shit, this is great. But it's rare, very rare. yeah. Like you're still, you know, a two guys, to this day I've never even come close to tapping and it, I mean, it just drives me nuts. It's just a joke that I have with them. And they're high level and I always give them shit, you know, as I'm rolling, was like, dude, I'll give you 20 bucks, just let me tap you just one time, come on, come on, please, just let me get you one time.

And one guy says the same thing every time, no Mike, know, I'll see you'll get me someday. And I was like, there's no way I'm going to get you. I've never even come close. And it's my first partner ever. It's Bob Hugus. runs a Hugus, a BJJ over in Plattsburgh. And he was my first partner ever. to this day, I can not touch that man. He is just a freaking nature. He is my idol in Jiu-Jitsu. And he's amazing. He's amazing. But just one time, Bob, just one time.

So yeah, God, I tried. He's a great guy.

Justin (29:53.583)
You just got to sneak up on him.

Justin (30:00.389)
the you know for for me it's like because I started this way later than I wish I had I I'm I'm to the point where everybody I roll with currently is younger than me and it's some by 10 or 15 years which is and it really took me a little while to to wire myself to you know this isn't I don't need to win the fact that I'm here and even in the fight with these people is you know is a victory as far as I'm concerned and it's

Mike D (30:27.384)
Yeah. Yeah.

Justin (30:30.361)
So for me, that's like, I try to experiment at times and be like, let's see what happens if I put my leg here. that didn't work. And, you know, or it does. I think that's a, that's a, when you can wrap your head around that, that, that is so beneficial to training.

Mike D (30:47.49)
Yeah, yeah. Now take that, you know, and I thought about this a lot. Take that, you know, and now you're, you know, a smaller female. That's even way more intimidating to, you know, have a female in there trying to battle all these guys, you know, and I mean, Gavin's wife Laura is a perfect example. She was my first black belt. She didn't get any special treatment and like, you know, as she tested at the same time as three other people, you know, and she is the only one that made it.

Justin (30:51.503)
So you.

Mike D (31:16.398)
Like she put in a lot of work, but that is a much harder journey than, you know, a lot of us have had. Just because, you know, of the physical, you know, part of it, and then, you know, of the whole mental part of it. there's all these alpha males, strong dudes that are, you know, fighting for their lives while rolling with a female because they don't want to get tapped by a female. You know, it's just, I can't imagine what that's all like. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin (31:24.985)
Yeah.

Justin (31:40.205)
Or swept. They don't even want to get swept.

Justin (31:47.705)
Yeah, that's I mean, I think the you know, I've said this, I said this, think in Gavin's episode two, there's a certain amount of mindset that you have to you have to bring to this that just to stay in, stay in the game because it's it. He described it as I think he said it's like brutal and demoralizing or something. forget how he worded it, but it's very it can beat you up if you let it. So you really have to have the mindset of I'm

I'm not going to quit and I just have to keep showing up.

Mike D (32:20.462)
Yeah. And I mean, we are all alphas. Like anybody that does this is an alpha. So it's a room full of alphas. And, you know, now there's egos that are starting to clash because, know, it's alpha versus alpha. One person is going to win. So now, you know, how does that sort of play into it? You know, it's just, it's a lot of mental, mental hurdles. And that took me a long time to figure out, you know, like I always heard, you know,

Justin (32:46.17)
Right.

Mike D (32:49.676)
Martial arts are mental, which, okay, you I understand the whole, well, you know, I have to learn these moves. I have to know when to put these moves in. But then the whole part of, holy shit, you know, I'm getting my ass handed to me. Everything hurts. I don't want to do this. That's mental, you know?

Justin (33:06.92)
Yeah, I think for me, I almost think that starting later, because I didn't have, I wasn't in my 20s and didn't have the physicality to to bring that to it, it forced me into more of a, know, the relying on the mental side of things. And certainly when I got, I mean, when I got sick and was, you know, at the gym with my frickin grappling dummy in the back of the room and a mask on that the mental piece.

Mike D (33:32.674)
That's just crazy, man. That's... Yeah.

Justin (33:34.779)
The mental piece is what is what kept me kept me there. But it because it was not I mean, I had no immune system and there was no physical because because that was that but.

Mike D (33:44.054)
I know, but I mean, dude, you kept showing up. You were doing what you were doing. Like that's that's balls, man. I you know, I have my injuries, you know, and I try to train through it. But, you know, someone I went through what you went through and you still dug in and did it. That's that's fantastic.

Justin (33:51.895)
I.

Justin (33:59.747)
I felt like I had to like I didn't I I didn't want to lose not that I was even I mean I couldn't Train with somebody but I didn't want to lose the camaraderie of that. It was incredibly powerful and just being there with other people that you know, these those are like This is the family. need to be here It was it was just one of those things I had to I had to be there in whatever capacity I could be whether it was taking pictures or you know sitting with a guillon just

or with no guillotine, just watching or whatever. just, it was, I found it necessary even though it was, my oncologist was not super, super thrilled with the idea, but.

Mike D (34:39.442)
Yeah, doctors. I've learned a long time about doctors don't understand jujitsu. Mine does. So my ortho loves me like I haven't seen him for years and he knows all my injuries are from jujitsu and he knows, you know, he's going to fix me, but I'm still going to keep going. So I mean his speech now is, Mike, you know, I know you know this, but I have to tell you this, you know, take like six, six weeks, eight weeks. And I was like, yeah, you know, yeah, I hear you. And it's usually like one week, two weeks.

Justin (34:42.939)
you

Mike D (35:09.174)
and I'm still doing dumb shit. But yeah, I'm sure your doctor was just like, I should do that.

Justin (35:16.111)
Yeah, well, she was she's like, you know, you have you won't have an immune system. And I was like, well, I just won't touch anybody. I'll just I'll just I just need to be there. And yeah, she she didn't get it. But she was, you know, ultimately, she acquiesced and was like, OK, like, you know, you have to do what you have to do. but but again, it's and the whole kind of premise of this podcast is it is the mental the mental health benefits that this thing.

Mike D (35:33.196)
Right.

Justin (35:43.437)
for me anyway and for for other people i've talked to is so powerful that it's it's almost like i'd i don't want to stop because i don't go back to where i was so you know injury or not like it's i think that's for me that's that's the draw is i have to keep doing this

Mike D (35:53.048)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike D (36:00.28)
Yeah, you know, like me coming up, mean, you know, I had my own issues. I was never in the military or stuff, but of course I had my childhood traumas and all my stuff and, know, hearing like, you know, Gavin and all those guys who have, you know, seen combat and have had the PTSD and like, I see them all sitting there talking, you know, and they had me come in and I'm, you know, sitting there with them and talking to hear all the stories. Like it's just mind blowing how much this helps.

that aspect of it because again you know as much as they you know I guess have the PTSD from battle and all that you know they still miss that you know adrenaline battle part of it and I mean that's a piece of it so I mean and Gavin said you know I'm on that mat you know I mean I'm fighting for my life against somebody who basically you know when you tap that means that you know I could have died because

you know, or been hurt. He's like, you know, it's that whole rush. It's good. It's fun, but it's safe. So, I mean, it makes sense. Yeah.

Justin (37:00.025)
Right.

Justin (37:05.487)
Yeah, you still get to do that the warrior piece and you've got all the structure and all these other things, but there's a level of safety to it that that you can keep doing it more than once. Yeah, as far as injuries, so I know you and I have talked a couple of times about, you're you're significantly banged up and put back together several times like an erect. What how?

Mike D (37:15.534)
Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike D (37:27.618)
That's a nice way to say it, yeah.

Mike D (37:32.74)
What?

Justin (37:35.225)
how do you stay on the mats? What's the formula to, and you touched on this a little bit about not listening to your orthopedic, but there's a certain amount of training smart involved in that, I'm sure, that it's not just throwing caution to the wind.

Mike D (37:52.47)
Yeah, I mean, I tell people don't do what I'm doing because it's not good. But I can tell you that, you know, this year has been the hardest year for me because, you know, I had two really bad sicknesses. I mean, I had the neuro virus. I thought I was going to freaking die on that. I was in the ER twice. You know, I actually have an appointment tomorrow to have my knee fully replaced, you know, and sort of set that up.

That's been the biggest one because I mean, in 92, I went through a dashboard. I shattered my tip, fib, everything. You know, I was on crutches for two years. It was my senior year. Like it was just this whole thing. You know, I got the whole, I'll never, you know, I'll never walk again for a little bit. And then, you know, well, you know, you'll never run or play sports again. And of course I said, fuck that. And I, you know, did everything, you know, a back herniations from my, yeah.

Justin (38:45.184)
You were like, hold my beer.

Mike D (38:47.758)
Yeah, that too. yeah, you know, and then just for me, you know, I just being a dumb ass and just hiking, you know, a bridge jumping and you know, just doing stupid shit. Like my body is just broken. You know, I had my elbow surgery earlier this year. Now my other elbow is acting up. I mean, I think I fractured my wrist like eight weeks ago, so I'm still dealing with that. It's just I'm a mess. So, I mean, I am slowing down.

Justin (38:51.131)
Ha ha ha.

Mike D (39:14.786)
I mean, I'm not rolling as much as I used to and when I do roll, I'm playing very passive on the bottom a lot. Like, I mean, I still, you know, attack from the bottom, but I mean, I'm not, you know, really trying to stay on top because I mean, I can't kneel that long. It's just, I'm just an absolute mess. A lot of that is also from, you know, years and years of a lot of heavy competition and competition training. I mean, I was doing probably at least three to four a year, easy.

And of course, I just have to stay in shape for that. And I would always cut up to, I think my highest cut was 28 pounds.

Justin (39:52.153)
Wow.

Mike D (39:53.56)
think it was about 48 hours I did that one. I it's just I haven't been nice to my body. I really haven't. So people who really, really, really compete, know like Gordon Ryan, he's gonna break down when he's older. mean, you know, a lot of these people like the injuries are gonna be crazy but I mean if I could go back I would probably want to compete more. I would want to get more in. So I mean it's just...

Justin (40:21.348)
Right.

Mike D (40:23.296)
It's gonna happen if you do this long enough, it's gonna happen.

Justin (40:28.907)
So it's trained as smart as you can, know your limitations really.

Mike D (40:31.362)
Yeah.

Mike D (40:34.7)
And don't train as hard as I did for as long as I did. I had my first MMA fight, I was 40. So, yeah. Don't wait so long.

Justin (40:48.645)
So what is the origin of Honey Badger?

Mike D (40:51.8)
So that actually came from Chris Ballard.

So I think it was my first cage match. So it was a grappling match only. was for XCP. Man, I forgot when that was. But I I did a lot of nagas. I did a lot of grappling industries, like all these other tournaments, which if you've ever been the one, you don't know who you're going against, how many people are in your bracket. You're sitting on your ass for six, eight hours, and you're hurting because it's a wooden floor and some hot gym in some high school somewhere.

So, you know, I heard, cage match, you know, I know who my opponent is. I know how long it is. I know about when it's going to be. So, you know, I'm going to do this. So, I mean, I was training hard for that. And I remember like, it was me and my best friend, Tom, who's in Winooski. He like, we would just train nonstop. Like we'd go to the gym, we would do tie, we would do grappling. And it's just like, we were just nonstop. And Chris mentioned, hey, know, Mike, he's like a honey badger.

he doesn't give a fuck because I would just keep training and going and going and like I was hurt and I was like no get up let's go let's go and so that's where it came from and that's you know I'm really big on don't ever you know a nickname yourself like have somebody else do it so I didn't have one until then

Justin (42:10.244)
I

Mike D (42:17.102)
So that's what's stuck.

Justin (42:17.187)
Yep, I figured it had something to do with that old that old meme that was out with the honey badger. that's Yeah. That's good stuff. The so and then I should have touched on this earlier, but I'm all over the place tonight because I trained today and I'm tired. The so once you you get to you if AI and you're now

Mike D (42:23.15)
Yeah, well, you know, there it is right there with the honey badger. So yeah, it just stuck, man. Yeah.

Mike D (42:38.126)
That's fine.

Justin (42:47.304)
you're not really under anybody, then you eventually, like at what point do you get affiliated with Nick and how does that all come about?

Mike D (42:54.574)
So, I mean, I was talking to a lot of people. I was on my own for eight years, I think it was. I was a brown belt for 11 years and three months, I think it was. At first I was like, you know, whatever. I just wanna teach people. It is what it is. But I mean, I could only belt people up to purple belt. And I was like, you know, I wanna be able to get people hired.

It wasn't so much about me, but I wanted to give people more. I started looking around. I was actually talking to Robert Drysdale for a while. I almost went on with those guys because they were good guys. I even looked into starting my own association as a brown belt to see what I could do with that, but that was a dead end. And then I started talking to Nick.

and his partner at the time who ran the Jiu Jitsu Brotherhood and it was just like an instant just like like you know I was on social media for hours just talking to those guys and like everything just fit I was like hey you know what do you guys think about cross-dressing? well you know it's stupid if you don't I was like okay cool you know what about geese? He's like who cares what you're wearing? Who cares if it's in white? Who cares what patches are on it? You know because that's a big thing like you know only wear white geese don't have patches on it. Who ca-

Justin (44:20.899)
Right. Yeah.

Mike D (44:21.614)
wear whatever you want, who cares? And I was like, okay, this fits. And then I signed out with Nick and I think he flew out like two or three months afterwards and I had no clue what was going on. It's my first time meeting him, we brought him shooting. It was me, Gavin, Laura, everybody brought him shooting and they started asking me questions. And then he beat the absolute shit out of me when I was sick. I was just getting over sick and actually a neck fracture. So I mean, he was rolling with me.

beating the shit out of me. was like, this is great, this is fantastic. And then it gave him a...

Mike D (44:58.39)
Yeah, I wasn't ready for that, you like I only...

Justin (45:00.389)
That's awesome.

Mike D (45:04.448)
I I only knew him for like, know, in person for like maybe a day and then that happened. I mean, rolling on the mat, he could, you know, see it and, you know, obviously talking to me, I think I came off well. So yeah, so I've been with him now for nine years.

Justin (45:10.085)
Right.

Justin (45:19.34)
Obviously.

Justin (45:26.457)
Very cool. The so the you were a big part of at least from my understanding, you were a big part of establishing the like Vermont Police Jiu Jitsu program that is like hosted at UFAI that Sergio is currently running and you tell me about how that came to be. And like I know what it took on a little bit of what it took on the police side. But what did that what was that conversation like?

Mike D (45:51.448)
I know some of it on that side too because, mean, you know, Dave, I first met Dave when I was bouncing downtown. That's a story all in itself, but he was like on his first month. Anyway, ever since then, we were just, you know, clicked. I mean, and we're both, you know, the same with how we, you know, talk and all that stuff. So he started when I was, I think I was a purple belt. He started where I was and we just, you know, trained for a long time.

Justin (46:02.774)
You

Mike D (46:21.294)
and then he stopped for a bit and I went over to UFAI and then he came with me. And then I remember that he had like, I think he bought like 10 privates. He's like, look, here's this system that I want to bring down to the police academy. Here is all of it on paper. I wanna go over everything with you and I want you to just help me with it. I was like, okay, cool. So for 10 sessions, we sat there.

and we worked on some stuff. wasn't GST, it was the ground fighting program that actually predated GST. So I mean, he rolled that out and he told me stuff that he was doing on his end. He's like, as you know,

Law enforcement officers, they don't want to do a lot extra because you're working a lot. You're stressed out. You already have your mandatories. You already have all this. You know how hard it for people to just do their mandatories. They're not going to want to do this extra, but they should. You know the whole deal. Anyway, then Dave rolled that out, and it was great. And then I think it was Dave and somebody else went down to GSD, but I think Dave was the first one to go down, I think. And he came back, and he loved it. He's like, Mike, here's all this stuff.

Justin (47:19.291)
Yep, I think so.

Mike D (47:34.534)
Here's what I did. This is great. So and then I just kind of went from there but I mean he's been trying for a long time to get that going, you know, and and me and Deb and Chris are like Here's the space for it use it, know, like Burlington PD and when you ski PD like, know Even st. Mike's when I was there. We were all using that space because Deb and Chris were like use it. Here's the key absolutely So Yeah

Justin (48:03.14)
Yeah. think the big, I mean, I was part of some of the later conversations when he was getting the blue belt kind of program up and running. And I feel like there was a, I mean, obviously uninformed stigma from some of the administrators at the time who were concerned that it was contrary to what we should be showing people and all of that.

And it baffles me that I mean, so I've said this on other episodes. I was probably 20 or so years into my career at that point. And I had been in a few scraps and I'd been lucky and, you know, Burlington was great because, you know, back in the day, 10 people would show up when something happened. So there was always plenty of backup. And and I, you know, I'm a good talker, so I would talk my way out of stuff and calm people down. But but.

Mike D (48:47.928)
Yeah.

Justin (48:56.597)
Looking knowing what I know now. I'm amazed that I didn't have more issues You know like more use of force like things go bad because I didn't know and and it I don't I Don't know if you have any insight on why Why it is that getting? Cops especially to show up to train is is so difficult

Mike D (49:25.346)
I mean, I think I said it, mean, you know, before my job now, you know, I was sort of in the same spot, but I was a training officer where I was, and you know, just getting people to do their mandatories. It was like pulling teeth, and I get it, like, you know, they're working overtime, the job sucks a lot, not a lot of people, you know, like you, administration has your back to your face.

You know, it's like so you're stressed out all the time, but now you know shit, you know now I have to do you know, I'm a MDTS I don't want to do that and you know even just that like watching people do the MDTS I'm like, holy shit if this person ever has to try to get into a fight They're gonna go up You know, like it's not gonna be you know hands. It's gonna be Taser or it's gonna be lethal because one

Justin (50:17.296)
Right.

Mike D (50:25.112)
They're scared shitless, but too, they don't know what they're doing. So their brain is going to go, shit, lethal. Which is what happens a lot, you know, now with, you know, a lot of people doing a BJJ and I'm sure, you know, I'm sure are you seeing people just kind of, you know, they are, they are a lot calmer at situations because you know that you can handle yourself, you know, like no matter how big they are, you're like, okay, well, you know, I can handle this. He's, he's okay. Where she's okay, you know,

Justin (50:30.789)
Yeah. Yeah.

Justin (50:47.159)
Right.

Mike D (50:54.174)
The are the worst. hate to go in hands of other females. Holy cow. They try to kill you. Anyway, you know, it's like, you know, okay, so I can handle myself. And then that person's like, this guy or girl know, like, they look like that they can handle themselves. So they're not as apt to go to that level, if that makes sense. But I mean, you know, a lot of, again, a lot of people, they don't want to do that extra, you know? Are you paying me to do this extra? No. Okay, well, then I'm not gonna do it.

Justin (51:15.833)
Right, right.

Mike D (51:24.526)
I think that's a big one. And then also, you know, the whole ego thing, you know, every cop that I know of or even, you know, a military, it's that guerrilla thing. you know, I don't need that. I can handle myself. That kind of stuff. So.

Justin (51:39.385)
Right, yeah, until they can't get out of mount by somebody who weighs way less than them.

Mike D (51:43.79)
Right. Yeah, true, true. And now, mean, you know, after that, one, are they gonna come back and go, shit, you know, I just got my ass handed to me. I need to find out why. Or are they gonna go, nope, I can't handle that, I'm out. Which, nine times out of 10, it's nope, I can't handle that.

Justin (52:06.171)
Yeah, it's weird that that's like, I mean, I guess I'm not wired that way because I came back, you I had to keep coming back. I guess I just don't understand the mentality of I got I don't understand this and this is something I couldn't overcome. So I had a guest recently who who I was editing his episode yesterday and he said we were talking about something similar to this and he said the obstacle becomes the way. And I was like, that's like some

Jedi sound and stuff but it was I think there's something to that where the the obstacle becomes the way so yeah

Mike D (52:35.17)
Yeah, I like that.

Mike D (52:40.472)
Yeah. Yeah.

Now did you ever meet Jimmy, who's a power lifter, big dude, nicest dude, huge beard. He was like probably 20. Monsho the man, nicest guy. Now his story is, you know, fantastic and perfect. Like he is a power lifter and he's good. Like he's strong, nicest guy, looks mean as hell. He said that he came to class once and I want to say it was Laura, it might've been somebody else small. Absolutely beat the shit out of him.

Justin (52:50.407)
I've heard of him. haven't actually met him.

Mike D (53:12.98)
and he was just blown away he's like my god you know i'm like almost 300 pounds i couldn't do anything he's like i need to learn this and i was like that's great that's what you need but i mean he huge guy huge and he had to learn it

Justin (53:30.863)
Yeah. I think there comes a point for some people too, and I know there's a bunch of people from BPD who trained for a bit and then sort of fell off. And I feel like they get to a certain point where they're like, well, I know enough that they've got that confidence. They're used to, OK, now I am comfortable in bad situations. I know enough technique that I can get out of something. So I don't need to continue training.

Mike D (54:00.652)
perishable skill. It's a perishable skill, man. I mean, you know, if you take a year or two off and you come back, you're not going to be what you were when you left. Like you're not. You're going to forget things. I mean, your muscle memory is going to start to go to shit. I mean, you have to, you know, in some way, at least just stay fresh with it. Like just, you know, and then there's all different body types. Like, you know, I'm sure, you know, like on the streets, especially in Vermont, there's a lot of wrestlers walking around.

Justin (54:00.683)
Thoughts? Yeah.

Mike D (54:30.786)
You know, if you walk into the wrong wrestler on the wrong day, they're going to give you a hard goddamn time. Like my hardest matches are against wrestlers. I hate wrestlers. I always get, you know, the little fucking. Orc that's like three feet tall, 300 pound, like his ears are smashed and I'm standing across from this guy. Like, God, here we go. Here we go. You know, like just, gotta keep doing it if you want to, you know, stay at that level or better.

Justin (54:37.157)
Yeah.

Justin (54:50.724)
Yep.

Justin (55:02.937)
Yep. So the question I ask everybody, so like today, my trifecta today, I got to train. And then I got in my cold plunge, and then I got in my sauna. So I hit I hit a trifecta of my some of my twisted remedies today. So the question I ask everybody and I'm it's awesome. It's awesome.

Mike D (55:03.948)
Yeah.

Mike D (55:11.533)
Yep.

Mike D (55:19.373)
dude, that coal pond man,

God, I did it twice. Like I have a small one and I showed Gino and screw that. my God. I got to my waist and I was like, okay, it's not bad. But then it's like from here to here, maybe 30 seconds to a minute. And I was like, this is rugged.

Justin (55:34.681)
You just gotta get in. You can't get in like you're getting into the pool. You have to get in all the way up to your neck immediately.

Mike D (55:40.377)
I know, I know, yeah, but man, that's, oof. Sorry, go ahead.

Justin (55:45.315)
Yeah, and you have to like if you're not breathing there if you're not breathing the right way it like it will kick your ass to like that's a huge part of it, but so those are some of my like I'm almost afraid to ask this and obviously jujitsu is one of your answers clearly, but what are your what are your twisted remedies that keep you grounded and moving forward and all of that?

Mike D (55:51.681)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike D (56:05.55)
I mean, I'm just, I'm a pretty sick individual. mean, I'm the first to say it. mean, since I was a kid, again, like I could spend like hours talking about, you know, childhood trauma and shit I've been through, you know, just, I would go on just crazy hikes. Like I would, you know, I remember one day I ran up Mount Mansfield, like not the road, but one of the trails. And like, I was like 19, I was just like having a day. was like, you know what? I'm gonna go run up Mount Mansfield.

Justin (56:10.03)
You

Mike D (56:33.646)
And I did it and I came back down because you know, friend of mine went with me, you know, and she had to go home. I was like, well, I'm not done yet. So I walked her down the trail and I ran back up the trail. It's just, you know, I'm always, I'm always looking to do just anything. Obviously a lot of it's physical because you know, physical, physical struggle and physical pain, kick your mind off things, you know, like, I mean, me for breakups, I've had a...

long list of people I probably shouldn't have dazed. anyway, breakups are bad. You know, a lot of people fall down these holes where like, you know, they just mope and they're just sad. You know, like, yes, you know, I was sad and I would mope, but then I was like, you know what? I'm going to go to gym. And like, I would go on tears of just weights. And then I was like, you know what? Weights aren't enough. I'm going to start running too. And you know, I always start off for like a one mile or two mile jog and it goes to 10 or 12 and I'm dying. But I was like, you know what?

Nope. It's just, I mean, I just like to push myself, but then also on the back side of it, and I know that Gavin said this too, you know, I'm a gamer. I love video games. You know, like I'll sit down, I'll play video games, but then, you know, after like an hour or two, I'm sitting there and I was like, you know what, I'm being lazy. I gotta go do something. And then I'll go work out or I'll go, you know, do something stupid outside for a while and then I'm hurt. And then I'm like, you know what, I'll play video games again. It's just.

I try to stay as active as possible and one thing that I'm running into now is again I'm slowing down a lot. So that's driving me nuts. So I'm to try to find something else that's not as physical but it's hard to do. But I mean everybody's different. Mine's just...

Justin (58:12.247)
Yeah. Yeah. So you're kind of trading the mental cobwebs for a little bit of the body. It's like a somatic thing instead of just living in your head. think that's a whatever physical thing you're doing, it's taking the place and filling that space. Yeah.

Mike D (58:29.518)
Correct.

Mike D (58:34.158)
Yeah. Yeah. And then I mean, you know, one thing with me, I mean, it's not a big secret, you know, I like to party like a rock star and I always did that in my twenties with jujitsu and all this, like I was, I'm basically insane. It's what I'm getting at. It's just, yeah.

Justin (58:52.131)
I think there are lots of leather bound books that will be written about that, about those times.

Mike D (58:56.718)
Yes, yeah Yeah, yeah But I mean everybody's different. It's just you know sitting around doesn't do anything. You know if you're just sitting around It's not doing anything like you're not improving. You know like the whole jockel willing, you know good thing First time I heard that I was like, holy shit. That's me. That's that's 100 % what I do You know like stop sitting around Do something it happened for a reason but find something good out of

Justin (59:29.211)
that makes sense what what is coming up at ufai what's on the horizon

Mike D (59:30.936)
Yeah.

Mike D (59:35.662)
So most recently, so we have the next skoomate coming up. So we used to run two a year and then COVID hit.

So then it was once a year and then after this last one, got tons of feedback from people. Hey, you I used to do this twice a year. I was like, okay, so, you know, so we'll bring it back. So that's coming up on the 30th. So we actually have three guys who also are hopefully fighting in December. So we don't have much of a fight team anymore, but we used to just be, you know, a bunch of fighters like MMA, boxing, grapplers, and then, you know, a lot of people left. So it's been kind of quiet. But now, you know, other teams started to make comeback there.

So we have, you know, three guys who are fighting coming up. and then Dennis has a super fight also coming up in New Jersey, which is gross. I hate going to Jersey, but I hate competing in Jersey. He hates competing. The drive sucks. It's just, I've competed a bunch in Jersey. It's terrible. But anyway, yeah. So, I mean, you know, a lot of people have competitions coming up and then, you know, on top of that, it's just, you know, a lot of new faces are coming through.

Justin (01:00:30.232)
that's in Jersey. I didn't know that.

Justin (01:00:35.449)
Ha ha ha ha

Mike D (01:00:48.354)
which happens every year, a lot of old faces stopped. So, you know, I still bug them, thank God for social media, because, you know, I will be in your messenger going, what you doing? You know, but yeah, other than that, I'm just trying not to fall apart, you know, and just keep going.

Justin (01:01:00.88)
Yeah.

Justin (01:01:10.267)
Great. People reaching you, if somebody's listening to this and they're like, I need to relocate to Vermont and go train with Mike, how do they, or if they just want to connect, how do they reach you?

Mike D (01:01:21.268)
so I mean, I'm pretty big on BJJ everything on Facebook. I've been putting Facebook jail a bunch of times because of that page. but I mean, a lot of people actually, you know, have reached out through a BJJ everything. Hey, you know, I'll be, I'll be in Vermont, you know, where should I train? And I mean, I just don't go, you know, come train here. go, well, you know, here's growing BJJ, you know, a guy that I know runs it. They're, you know, good.

Justin (01:01:29.261)
You

Mike D (01:01:48.982)
Here's Seth over at Essex Junction. He's with Royce Gracie. He's a good dude because I talk to him also. say, here's Vince at Combat Fitness. And then I say, here's Trevor up in St. Albans. I give the whole spiel, even the place where I used to train, go, here is this place. He's a really good instructor. They're really good people. So there's that also. I don't throw them under the bus, but I give everybody, here is all of this.

And then they always thank me and yeah, correct. Correct. Yep. Yep. And I flat out tell them, I was like, you know, I am far from traditional, you know, I don't do warmups. I mean, they're not paying me to warm up, you know. Don't call me professor, even though you guys do it all the time, just pissing me off, it's fine. You know, just, you know, and we are, we are very, very laid back, you know, and I can show you a lot of jiu-jitsu and you know, I can show you a lot.

Justin (01:02:18.883)
Yeah, so you give them all the options and let them figure out what's a good fit.

Mike D (01:02:47.374)
leg lock.

So yeah, Facebook is usually the best way to do it. Instagram, sometimes, but that's more for my shitposts.

Justin (01:02:55.139)
Awesome.

Justin (01:03:02.562)
I've never encountered that. Well, this has been awesome. Thank you for coming on this with you or you know this. It's weird doing this with people that I that I know, but it's it's always.

Mike D (01:03:05.122)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike D (01:03:22.029)
Yeah, right.

Justin (01:03:24.675)
I always learn something and this was very informative and good stuff.

Mike D (01:03:29.314)
Yeah, I don't know how you do the one-on-ones because you know, so we had our podcast, but I mean it was three of us and you just do the one-on-one, which is great, you know, and you're not drinking, which is also great because we did that.

Justin (01:03:36.72)
Right.

Justin (01:03:43.033)
Yeah, that ships that ship sailed with my high liver counts after chemo. Now, now I'm although I have found a lot of really good non alcoholic beers that I enjoy sometimes. It's got a good like mouth feel. Yeah.

Mike D (01:03:46.571)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike D (01:03:57.454)
my wife, yeah. Yeah. No, she stopped drinking in January. Just out of nowhere. great. And she's tried all these different non-alcoholic IPA. And some of them are really good.

Justin (01:04:10.472)
Yeah, there's some good ones out there. So it's not the same, but it's close enough. And it won't kill me as quickly. Well, I will say it one more time, Professor DesRosiers, thank you for coming on the podcast. It was a pleasure having you, and I'm glad you got on.

Mike D (01:04:12.344)
Yeah.

Mike D (01:04:16.014)
That's That's true.

Mike D (01:04:23.054)
Ugh.

Thank

I appreciate it man. Thank you.