When Adulthood Killed My Art — And How I Found My Way Back | Alexis Hedderson

She sold her artwork. People bought it for a hospital. And she still didn't believe she was an artist.

Cleveland artist and teaching artist Alexis Hedderson joins host Sheran Ranasinghe for one of the most honest conversations on The Creative Odyssey Podcast — about the moment adulthood quietly kills your creativity, and what it actually takes to find your way back to it.

Alexis spent years teaching art to preschoolers, saying yes to a mural project she had no business saying yes to, and battling the inner voice that told her none of it counted. What she discovered on the other side of all of it will make you think differently about why you stopped creating — and whether it's too late to start again. It's not.

WHAT WE GET INTO: — The voice that gets in the way of every creative person — Why teaching art to 4-year-olds reveals something profound about every adult — The mural residency that finally made her believe she was an artist — Why selling your work doesn't cure imposter syndrome — How creativity heals in ways nothing else can — What a truly inclusive creative community needs to look like — Why the slow season is actually your most important creative time

TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Highlight Reel 01:30 — Meet Alexis Hedderson: Artist & Teaching Artist in Cleveland 03:00 — Why she walked away from traditional teaching 05:00 — What open-ended art with preschoolers teaches us about freedom 08:00 — When adulthood makes you forget what it felt like to be a kid 10:30 — The photo of herself as a little girl that stopped her in her tracks 13:20 — Sheran asks: "Were you allowed to create as a kid?" 14:40 — Picking up the brush during the hardest season of her life 16:05 — "Didn't that make you feel like an artist?" — Sheran pushes back 16:20 — Why even selling her work wasn't enough to change how she saw herself 18:00 — The mural project she almost said no to 19:20 — What happened inside her on the other side of it 20:00 — Learning to embrace the slow season as a creative 22:00 — Why setting up your studio during quiet periods is never wasted time 23:30 — "Art is healing. I've seen it heal. It's healed me." 26:00 — The courage it takes to share what you make with the world 28:00 — The inner child running the adult body 33:00 — Alexis's connection to Future Ink Graphics and the Cleveland creative community 36:00 — Her love of printmaking, lithography, and screen printing 39:00 — What it would take to build a truly inclusive creative space

CONNECT WITH ALEXIS HEDDERSON: Instagram: @alexishedderson

ABOUT THE CREATIVE ODYSSEY PODCAST: The Creative Odyssey is a podcast about the journey every creative person goes through — what it looks like, why it matters, and why you should create too. Hosted by Sheran Ranasinghe, filmed at Future Ink Graphics in Cleveland, Ohio.

Instagram: @thecreativeodysseypodcast Email: thecreativeodysseypodcast@gmail.com Filmed at Future Ink Graphics (FIG): @futurinkgraphics Website: www.futureinkgraphics.com Sponsored by FIG / Future Ink Graphics Produced by Odyssey House Media: @odysseyhousemedia

If this episode hit home, share it with someone who lost their creativity somewhere along the way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I feel like a lot that happens in adulthood is you forgot what it was like to be a kid.

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Were you allowed to do that as a kid?

SPEAKER_04 0:06

I've actually recently found this photo of me, like at one of our tables with my watercolors. But I looked very focused and I recently came across that photo.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 0:17

And I've been like, it's like I have it around. I've just kind of been like trying to keep that little girl in mind. I was going through a difficult time. And I one night picked up the brush. Felt like a life or death situation. And even then, I still wasn't saying I was an artist. To be an artist almost is like you have to have a regular job and then you do your art stuff. I think a big value I hold on art is that it is healing. I've seen it heal, you know. I'm pretty sure it's healed me.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Hi, welcome to the Creative Artists Podcast. My name is Sharon, and this space is about talking about a creative journey and why people create and why everyone should actually create. Today we are here at Future Graphics here in Keenan, Ohio. And we are highlighting some creatives who are connected with Fig to show why they create and this community they have here at FIG. So without further ado, Alexis. Hi.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Hi, Yushan. Nice to meet you. You too.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Okay, tell me about who you are and why you're here.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

So my name's Alexis, and um I am an artist in the Cleveland area, also teaching artists. I kind of use those terms, both of those terms. Gosh, my journey as to why I'm like here and sitting in this chair is pretty long and has taken many different like roads and ways to get there. But yeah, I'm here now doing some work with Fig, but also doing a lot of other creative projects. Um, and I I came to know Fig. Stephanie and I have actually known each other. Um, she's the founder of Futuring Graphics. We came to know each other during a project I was on called Literary Lots, I don't know, 10 some years ago. Um and I kind of had just left my teaching career at that time, and we met on that project because she was at Art House at the time, and I was trying to get into more of the arts organizations. So that's kind of how I came to be here. Oh the short version, you know, there's a lot of things in there.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

So you're an artist, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

And is that what you teach as well?

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Yes, um, I teach art to kids.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Wow. Okay, let's start there. Why?

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Yeah, sure. Um, I mean, I I actually ended up getting a degree in education. Okay. Um and after going through schooling, that went pretty quick. Um, I was a little, I was disenchanted with the traditional school setting. So I took some time off. Um, and then I went to art school at Cleveland State for a little bit. Um, and really, I think at that time tried to find what my artistic voice was during that time. I had never really thought of myself as an artist, and I actually haven't really thought of my artist until very recently, which is weird to think about. But it took me a while to actually say, yes, I'm an artist. But anyway, I'm getting off track. So um, once I took some time off of getting my degree, I went and taught. I decided, let me just give the teaching thing a go. I found a school I liked, I went to Laurel School. It's uh here in Cleveland on the east side. It's a private all-girls school. And I got into the early childhood program because that's my specialties, the little, the little ones. And I spent five years there. And in that time, I kind of took over the art in the preschool classroom. It it resonated with me. I felt I was good at it, and I didn't want it to be an artsy craftsy type of experience for the kids because I feel like they're very capable and they're very much in a play and explorative time in their life. And so I really wanted to bring like actual meaningful art experiences to them. Oh gosh, kind of thinking back on what we did. Though I mean, it was it was a lot of open-endedness, right? We would put paper out and a variety of different brushes and a few colors that I did kind of know would mix well. So we didn't end up with mud, but that would have been fine too. And just kind of let them explore.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Right. Um, I would find materials like in old teacher bins and you know, maybe like some colorful blocks, and we'd put some glue and some cardboard pieces down and would create structures. Um, and from there we would also talk about the color and oh, did this the way you glued it didn't really stay? The block kept falling off, right? So, how do you want to fix that? So there's a lot of problem solving in that too for them.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

What is the expectation of having like children that age play around with art kind of like that free? What's the idea? What's the goal?

SPEAKER_04 5:13

I feel that like giving them that opportunity to explore the material without a teacher-directed outcome really lets them tap into how does the paint feel? You know, like how does the tactileness of it? Yeah, the tactile, like they're obviously feeling something, you know, like all of a sudden a kid will start painting their hand. And so many adults are like, oh no, that's not how we use a brush. That's not how we do that. And but clearly they can't articulate it. They're having um a tactile experience with it. It could be calming. I mean, have you ever taken a paintbrush and run it over your palm? Like it's a nice feeling. So, my goal in that is to just let them experience the material for experiential sakeness. That I'm making up words, but I do that. So that's like that's my goal. And also from if I if I set the stage for them and let them have that experience, it does allow me to have conversations with them. Like, oh, I see you're using the blue paint, you know, and then they're like, Oh, yeah, I'm using blue, or oh, I saw you mixed some of the white with the blue. What did that do? And they're like, it changed the color, and they're just like, so excited about that. So, like letting them have the experience, not you mix blue with white, and then you get this color, you know.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

It's almost like you're like help helping them connect the dots of their thoughts, emotions to actions. Like it might be so simple as like why to do it, but sure, you know, like I realize when you ask a question from somebody, it allows them to think about that. You know, sometimes it's they might not have even thought about it.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

Right. And and I think art is a is a great way to get conversations starting with kids and be able to connect with them, right? Because that's how you form those meaningful relationships with kids is by finding my hands are doing weird things. Like how it's a podcast. There it goes. Okay. Like how you want to connect with your students, you want to connect with the with them in a way that makes it more meaningful. And you want them to come back and you want them to feel safe and you want them to open up, you know.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Have you ever thought about the correlation between like doing that and how it applies to adulthood as an adult?

SPEAKER_04 7:48

Yes. So great question. Because I have this like burning idea in my brain that I still haven't really like taken off the ground. But I feel like a lot that happens in adulthood is you forgot what it was like to be a kid or a child. And that could be through whatever experience. I might get choked up. Um, and so I've I've always had this idea of like finding ways for adults to tap into their creativity because I think a lot are too afraid and they just won't do it. But it can be as simple as just like, I mean, kind of your Play-Doh story like resonated with me. Like, it's not that hard. Like, you just kind of have to be given the space to, and I mean, there is something within your own psyche that you're gonna have to tell yourself, like, this is okay to do.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Yeah, you know, you have to give it to the permission.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

Yes, you are gonna have to fight through some of your own demons. Right. That's why we ask together. So, you know, I've wanted to do some adult art classes where they just play with materials that maybe they saw when they were a child in grade school or wherever, you know, and just be like, let me just draw with the oil pastel and wash some water, like very, I guess you could say, elementary projects. Like, even I sometimes have to tap back into that and I'll like go find, you know, um, maybe an art experience I did with kids and do it myself just to like stay, stay young.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Yeah. So you mentioned you just said you're getting choked up. Can I ask you why?

SPEAKER_04 9:23

I don't know. I just it resonates um somewhere deep inside me, I guess. I don't know. I have I really have a strong um, I don't quite know what it is, but there's something with me and kids. Maybe it's something from my own childhood.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Um, but okay, let me ask you that.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Were you allowed to do that as a kid?

SPEAKER_04 9:45

You know what? I was.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:47

I really was. I grew up in a very there was a lot of art around me growing up. There was music, there was a lot of classical music because my dad, there was a lot of PBS, yeah, like a lot of public television, there was a lot of going to the museum, there was a lot of you know, my mom cooking and baking, and my dad played the piano but by ear. And um, you know, my brother was very artistic, and there are I've actually recently found this photo of me like at one of our tables with my watercolors and like a little cup of tea, or maybe it was my paint water, I don't know. But I looked very focused, and I recently came across that photo.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

And I've been like, it's like I have it around. That's brilliant, and I've just kind of been like trying to keep that little girl in mind. Yes, yeah. But then my dad's gonna hate this, but as I got older and would paint and start doing things, he kind of started coming around my shoulder and being like, no, it's this, no, it's and it I remember very some very frustrating times. Like he and I are good. We're you know, he's so proud of like where I am now. But and yeah, I don't know how he'll feel about hearing this, but there was this time where he just kind of started getting in there, and I saw myself pulling away from it, so it wasn't until then, and then in like high school art class, again, teachers were coming over my shoulder, and I was like, maybe I'm just not cut out for this. Like I felt like me finding my voice in it was kind of getting squashed. I don't think consciously, I think it was all unconscious.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

But it happened, and I'm a very, I'm a very sensitive emotional being.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

Yeah. So um come to think of it, I think I stopped drawing or painting in third grade after going to an art class. I didn't realize I just made the connection.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

I think I stopped because that person was telling me don't but I just Yes, and so yeah, it's I I recently picked up drawing uh on my wife's uh iPad.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Oh, okay, yeah. And it's been so nice. Yeah, yeah, I I've been thinking about actually getting some paint and like tactile doing something.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

Yes, you should.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Yeah, I know I should. I completely 100% agree. I just do too much, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

So yeah, I think with all that and then coming back and hearing how other adults talk to kids while they're creating and stuff. I just there's a part of me that cringes a lot, and I'm like, okay, yeah, there's a better way to do this. And um, you know, I also have a vision of like having my own like preschool, like art preschool someday. I have a lot of ideas. That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

I'm talking to a creative, that's awesome. Um, thank you for sharing all of that, first of all.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Hi, I hate to interrupt, and I hope you're enjoying this conversation, but we had something really exciting to share with you. We have recently started a new company called Odyssey House Media.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

It's essentially a production company to help people tell their stories in a way that actually highlights their story so that people can actually believe what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

So, after traveling around Sri Lanka and coming back to the States, we noticed that there's a lot of incredible people doing some really great, meaningful work, but they don't quite always know how to tell their story or have the confidence in doing so. So, after working with some other organizations and partnering with them to share their stories, we realized we need to help people share their stories.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

The Odyssey House Media has been the one that's been sponsoring this podcast, uh blood, sweat, and tears.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

So if you've ever wondered, you have a story and you're not sure how to share it, we'd love to talk to you, have a conversation. Uh, you can check out more about uh us and our work that we've done in the past in the link below. All right, let's get back to that conversation.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Yeah. All right. So you got back into teaching, and and uh because you got into art, then you went to college, you got into art, then you went to back to teaching, and you're now combining art and teaching together. Yes, right? Yes, it's beautiful. Yeah, congratulations, you gotta do that. Thanks, yeah. We got to use that. But then uh uh it seems like you were also kind of doing your own art at that point.

SPEAKER_04 13:56

I was, yeah. So when I was at Cleveland State in the art program, I really got into printmaking. So I made a series of work. Like I said, during that time, I think I found a voice, a voice for that time. Yeah, it's definitely evolved from there. And I was really into printmaking, and then all yeah, all this other time went by. I was still like making stuff at home, but I wasn't putting it out there. I think my dad did like a show at a local restaurant or something. They were having like an art night or something, and he went up there because he does watercolor paintings, and he went up there with his stuff and he took a couple of my prints from college and actually sold to. And I was like, oh, okay, that kind of sparked a little like, oh, okay. It somebody does like my art, I guess. And then I don't know, a lot of stuff happened in between that again. And then in 2017, you know, I was going through a difficult time. And I just one night picked up the brush and I was like, Well, you're either this is it this felt like a life or death situation. Like, you either need to paint your way out of this, or I don't know what's gonna happen. And that kind of spurred this my first like art collection that I put out there called LifeScapes, and they were just these dot paintings, but they were a lot of dots, and they were a lot of paintings, and so I was definitely like working through something at that time. And then Zygo Press was having or land studio was looking for art. Stephanie, she encouraged me to bring the work down. They were looking for art for a new, I think it was Metro Hospital location in University Heights. Was this last year? Oh no, this was like this was some years ago, uh near like 2017. Yeah, and she encouraged me to bring some pieces down, and I brought a couple down and they bought them. So that like that's what really spurred me. Like, okay, I'm going to start doing more with this. So I like talked to a couple stores in the neighborhood and I started showing my work. I feel like that's when I finally came like out.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

When you did that, that first time of like showing a work of art. Oh, the art show I did, yeah. This crazy experience you went through. Yeah, like that didn't tell you that you were an artist. No, that was like, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

It's it's I I only I laugh because I just think that all creatives go through this. Like, yeah, syndrome is just so obvious, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Yeah, and even then I still wasn't saying I was an artist, right? Because to be an artist almost is like you have to have a regular job and then you do your art stuff in the off time, and that's how you're an artist, right? I still hadn't quite fully taken on the role that, like, no, I'm an artist, I'm an artist. That's what I do, and I teach art, you know. I think when I did this, the residency at William Rainey Harper, the mural project, I think that's when I really was like, okay, I I yes, I am an artist.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

And there was a three-year residency. Did I hear that right? Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

Yeah, three-year residency. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Yeah, yeah. That that would have definitely been going to work to do painting.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, it was it was an amazing experience. Very challenging because, like I said, I had never done a mural of that scale before. So I learned a lot.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Yeah, murals are not easy work.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Oh my god, no. My body was so wrecked.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

I heard you mention that it was uh there was an opportunity that came up, and you hadn't done murals before, and you said just why not? And then you did it. Walk me through that, and why are you still doing murals? I don't understand how much work. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Well, yeah, it almost became a little addictive once you got on that wall. You're like, oh wow, canvas. Like I could do it's a canvas. We have to edit that out.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

No, it's cool. Okay. We leave everything.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Part of the process.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah, it's a canvas.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

It's a canvas. Oh, yes, the wall is my canvas. Yeah, I suppose like in that moment I could have been like, no, that's not what I do. You know? See if you can find someone else. But there, I don't know, there was something inside of me that was like, just say yes to this and you're gonna figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Was there any point you're like, why did I say yes?

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Oh my god, like every day. Yes, every day. I was like, I can't do this.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

Um, but again, that's what also spurs you forward. You're also like, no, I can't do this. You just you have to wrap your head around it. You've got to work through this problem, you've got to figure out how to make that image big enough to project it. You know, I didn't have that skill set. So I had to, and luckily the school was so like, we'll support you in this, and we'll, you know, we're they were willing to give me that opportunity, which I am very, very thankful for. Um so after I came off of that, I was like, Yes, I'm an artist. That was like my job.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

So now how do you see yourself?

SPEAKER_04 18:58

Still in that way. Um I'm you know, I'm kind of like right now in a period of struggle in finding like what's my next key, what's my next gig. Um, so I'm still yeah, it's right now is a really kind of struggling time because I don't really have anything consistent lined up at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Like ebbs and flows, especially when when it comes to art, right? That that's all.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

Yes. And what I have learned from this experience is that okay, if this is the life you want to lead and this is what you want to do, when you get that next project, you have to be a little more mindful of how um, like if just to put it bluntly, how to use those funds at that time to carry you through the times where you know there you might be at a lull and not know what's next or right, right, right, right. Just to be a little more financially set for those types. That's that's something I did learn as well.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Yeah, that makes sense. I've also learned that like I run a small business too, and and whenever the the sales periods are lower, or like those are the times one, you could try to find more clients. Two, you could there's something that you need to work on in the business that you need to fix things and get ready. Sure, sure because the moment the next rush comes or whatever, you won't have time to fix any of those things. And so the way I look at it now is like whenever there's a down period, I've always found now, whenever there's a down period, that's for me, that's my time to not worry about the money. That's my time to focus on like all the creative stuff, all the inner work, all the whatever expressing stuff. Because the moment I get busy, it's gonna catch up. Yeah, you know, money will come, and then I won't have any time to create at the moment. Yeah, so I've realized where I like appreciate the love moments because I know that I need this is the time I get to like be creative. Like today, I have no dog, I have a dog business, so like I have no dogs today. So I can be all day long here. Yeah, but when I'm busy, I cannot do anything else. Right. So, anyways, I'm taking talking about myself.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

Oh no, that's fine. That that's lovely to hear. Like, I always love to hear other artists and their perspectives on things like that because I am struggling while I'm nodding and I'm like, yes, sure, of course.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

It's hard.

SPEAKER_04 21:15

I'm having a hard time settling into that low part right now. So there are days where I'm just like, uh, what do I do? And then there are days where, well, do this in your studio. So I've been working on my home studio a lot.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Um, because I have a nice space within that. So I've been trying to use this time to organize. That's good. Okay, thank you. Tell me.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

It is not a waste of time, trust me. I have a woodstop, I have a little studio like in my house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and then like taking the time to organize, taking the time to fix, making it better. Like it is so important.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

Do not let anybody tell you it's a waste of time.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Because when you are busy, you need that space to function so well. We're talking function. Functional creative stuff right now. Tips and tricks.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

Yeah. Put a little podcast together for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Why would you encourage people to create from your journey and your opinion?

SPEAKER_04 22:14

The first thing that comes up is like you when you create, when you do it could be cooking, it could be baking, it could be um sketching, it could be playing the piano, you know, it could be anything. Um, it could be gardening. Doing something creative can move you through something. It can heal you, it can inspire you, even, you know, baking a new cake can inspire you for another one, you know, like doing it right can spur you to do it more. And yeah, a bit uh I think a big value I hold on art is that it is healing. It can be healing. I've seen it heal, you know. I I'm pretty sure it's healed me.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Yeah, me too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Um you know, it's it's each new collection that I come up with or direction that my art goes, you get a little more confident, you get a little more secure, you get a little more of your voice, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

What do you have to say about or how have you understood this need if there was no money attached to it? Right? Right? If there was no money attached to it, would you ever show to people what you're creating?

SPEAKER_04 23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

Why?

SPEAKER_04 23:26

Well, recently I've I think it's because I don't know that I'm gonna articulate it right, because I think this is kind of a new thing that sharing it is a big um it can be like a connective thing. You might find a connection that wasn't there before.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

It's the need to connect and it's the need to process.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

And you express because you want, there's an innate desire, maybe like to other people to connect with it the same way you did.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

And then in the And I think there's just something that needs to get out of you too. Yeah. And I see the value in that.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

That's what I'm saying. It's very interesting because uh expression is getting it out, but in our modern day, I mean, even like back in the day, like Picasso or whatever, like they created something and they put it out, you know, like they showed it to people, and maybe people didn't perceive some people didn't perceive it properly, and like when they're dead, they perceive it. But it's this idea that I've been thinking about like why is this like creating is one thing, sharing it with others is a whole nother thing.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

That's not uh yeah, you said that in the podcast that I listened to. Oh, yeah, you had that same Did I? Yeah, you did. There's the creating part, and then there's the sharing part. You could create all you want and just keep it to yourself. The sharing takes courage and bravery to like put it out there and have people have their opinions on it or not have their opinions on it. You know, whatever. It's a vulnerable thing, yes, it's a vulnerable thing to put that out there. So is like playing a musical instrument, you know. So it's like, and I and I envy those that I just see go and do it, like it doesn't even like it doesn't even seem like they're having all the worries and stuff that I'm having over here. They it just seems so effortless. But they're probably going through all that.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

And and actually, I was talking to uh Santana earlier, and he mentioned like whenever that's the one place where all the negative self-talk they they stay behind because when you go to pain, it's the one place he feels comfortable where he can be himself and no judgment and whatnot. And and there is negative self-talk, but right, that resonates, right? Like over time, over time you create, like you finally get to a point like, oh, uh I love myself, I love creating, like I love what comes out of me, right? Like all these expressions, and and I don't have to sit here and criticize it, you know. Right, right, right. So the reason I think that people should create is that that people can be free from the negative uh thing. Because I see adults, there's an image of my in my head about adults. It's the adult is the body, but inside there's a little child that's controlling the you know, and like I feel like people don't know that, and then I agree. Then they're trying to understand the world from this armor body, adult body we have, but nobody forget everybody forgets to connect with the operator who's the kid.

SPEAKER_04 26:29

And that's why the world is that's my view.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Yeah, I mean, that's why I like I go through all this hassle to talk about this. Because I because I again like we are divided on politics, religion, all of these things. This is the one thing we can actually connect with, regardless of anybody in the world.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

We can if they're willing. Not all of them are willing.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

True, right? But if you put like your They all actually participate in it, whether they know it or not. Exactly. Like my example is like you talking about that class you wanted to do where you give adults this stuff. You take it to anywhere in the world, any country in the world, you offer that class. You're telling me adults won't like take and start painting. They might be hesitant at first, but then you're like, hey, just try. And then watch them do it. It's the one thing anybody in the world can do and connect.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

That's true. So, how are we getting that idea off the ground?

SPEAKER_03 27:24

I have started it. I have started a podcast, I talk about it, but and also the the reason I'm I'm talking to you and highlighting your story because a lot of people, right, go through trials and tribulations in life, right? But not create. They might go into alcohol, they might go all these other outlets. Sometimes people don't even do the outlet stuff, they keep it inside, they do the nine to five job, and then they might have a breakdown or might they might die. And they would never know that they take it out on others or that. That's the worst side, right? Yeah, but my point is they would never know that this inner child has like they're not connected with it. They have no idea that people need to create. I don't care what you do if you just go spend some time with yourself and go create.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Yeah. We think it's so simple to do.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

It is very hard because when imagine when you haven't connected with your inner child, when you haven't connected with that person, all you know is the negative voices.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

So every time you sit down, all you hear is negative voices, and then you stop. But if you knew that you haven't created a long time, you haven't connected with this child, the negative voices are against you connecting with that inner child. You knew that as a like a hindrance, then you would know, oh, this is just normal. Right. This is what creating looks like. I need to get to the point where I don't have to listen to these voices. Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

And the more you create, the more those, like you said, those negative voices start to get quieter and quieter. And something else.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

I mean art therapy, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:02

I've done a little art therapy. Yeah. I've done a little bit of it.

SPEAKER_03 29:05

And I think every time I create, whether it's drawing or because um, whenever I'm like in this state of craziness and I'm like losing it, I'm like, I gotta go right.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

I have to go right and process these thoughts because I'm losing it.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

Yeah. Yeah, I have the I go through the same thing if I'm like overwhelmed or the schedule I, you know, made too busy for myself. You know, I've learned that no, do it a little more like this. And yeah, like some mornings I make time, like I'll get up a little bit earlier so I can just do like a rough painting with my tea. And it really does kind of set a different tone for the day that I didn't take. And it's literally just like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

Um, but that took me time to get to that place, you know. I I kind of had to go through all the other things to get to that place. And no party wants to now through this kind of, we're just kind of saying, no, just come on, you could do it, you know. Right. But you have to like set the scene for people to want to come and do that.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

I think that's yeah, because at the end of the day, the reason is to find some freedom and some peace. Can't find it anywhere else.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

You can't find it doing this.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

You have to find you have to create and find it or connect with a God. But again, I don't talk about religion just because it seems very divisive now. So, like, I'm like, I'm only talking about creativity.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

Yeah, no, creativity and is universal language for sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

So we are here at Fig and we are partnering up with Fig. So I would like to talk about Libera Fig and the community here. Sure. You mentioned you connected with Stephanie like much earlier than Fig. Now you're connected with Fig. Talk me why and what the community is and what it means to be here.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

Yeah. Well, it's you know, a new young space try still trying to build like or continuing to build a community around art. And I came on doing a few just a few projects that um fig was doing around town. I did the rock hall, my poster's actually right there. Oh wow for one of their Fam Jam uh events at the Rock Hall. And uh we've been also trying to launch some like young printers clubs here for like young kids. So trying to bring that passion of teaching young kids and bringing the element of screen printing and printmaking and kind of connecting those two. Um, so trying to put some programming together around that and get like little four-year-olds in here screen printing. Yeah, because that is my that is my expertise. Like, I really do like I've said earlier on that that age group is uh age group that I like to work with. So no reason why they can't be screen printing.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

So and learning some, like, you know, how printmaking came to, you know, there's stamping, there's um mono printing, like just a bunch of different types of printmaking and making it accessible to them.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

What got you curious to try uh printing, screen printing?

SPEAKER_04 32:12

When I was at Cleveland State, I really fell in love with printmaking. Um, I did like the lithography classes and the Intalio, and I went through all those. I there was something about its process that I liked. Mono printing, um, I like a lot because you can kind of really explore, print it, and kind of move on to the next one. Right. You can be a little quicker with it and not so detailed if that's what you're doing. Um and then screen printing, um, I tried at Zygo once a long time ago. I liked the process, and then, you know, now here it is again in the big. And um just wanna, I actually want to kind of explore it a little more. Um, you know, I have some screens at home that I got recently at a estate sale and some of the masking tapes. So I've started to explore that process, but there's a little more digital technical operation going on here. So learning that and just getting more comfortable with screen printing and yeah, what you can do with it.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

So I understand that like finding community, right? Creative community is so important for a creator to thrive. Have you had any like bad experiences where you were like trying to find community and it didn't work? Or has it always been good? If so, what are the qualities you're looking for in a creative community?

SPEAKER_04 33:36

I don't know that that experience.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

That's great. That's very good.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

You know, I grew up at um Near West Theater. So I grew up in a very artistic community. Okay. And I saw um, you know, they're a nonprofit arts organization theater in the Detroit Shoreway. And so I just grew up seeing that around me and the transformative power that it can have. Like I literally saw theater like saving people's lives. Like, if I wasn't here, I would be on the streets or I would be like not here. You know, it was that hardcore. And like you just saw how being within an artistic community, because theater is like an art form as well. Yeah, that kind of was my upbringing in high school. That's what I saw. My brother was into it, my mom worked for the organization, my brother's now the technical director there. Like, we very connected to that community. So, you know, the values I saw in that were that, you know, everyone has a space here, you know, it didn't matter your race, your ethnicity, your religion, your sexual preferences, you know, like you were accepted hands down.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

So I think that's an important quality of I still feel I don't belong anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

And as a creative. Forget about the culture, race, all of that stuff. That's a whole nother story. But as a creative, I still feel like I don't belong because I am not one thing or the other. I'm a multi-creative. So like I feel like sometimes if I go to one space where they're doing one medium, they won't understand me or whatever. Like, there's so much more nuances to being creative. So, like, there is this question I'm asking, I've been asking for the last since I realized I was a creative. Okay. What does it take for a creative community to be be uh inclusive in that sense?

SPEAKER_04 35:32

In in in include to include all types of creative creative. We need just one big hub where you can come together and do your craft, but then there are spaces to share the craft, maybe? Maybe it's like a space to do that.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Yeah. It almost like the the way I envision it is like imagine there was like uh like in the Creative Olympics. Right?

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

And around the world, uh-huh, all kinds of creatives come. Now, Olympics, they have to compete. So they're in a competition in creative. Okay, we won't compete for creative. No, not competition. But they come here because they created something really powerful, whatever that was. So imagine now, all of these people creatives in that space. What are the things that we would need to um for everybody to feel accepted? Because there is no language, language is a barrier, culture could be a barrier, race could be a barrier, but this is the one thing that connects everybody.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

Gosh, that's gonna be a hard task. I think it's a great task.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

It's a utopian idea, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

I mean, I guess it is in a sense, because you are talking when you kind of break it down like that, there are a lot of barriers between people. And even, I guess, within a creative setting, there could still be those barriers. Yeah, right. So you'd have to kind of figure out how, like you said, what I don't know if I know the answer, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:57

Yeah, no, I wasn't, yeah, I wouldn't be trying to see it one.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

I think it's a great conversation to like continue and to keep asking people and figure out how how do we create a creative space, right? A community that still might have some barriers that we have to overcome.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Yeah. Because I think that the the the issue is there's skill involved in creativity.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

There's what creative skill. Yes. So based on the- You might not think you have the skill to even.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

So people are the creatives, we uh epoch syndrome is pretty much gauging based on our skill level of our perception of our skill level.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

Well, maybe that's why in that space you have a bunch of different mediums.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:40

Right? There's painting, there's drawing, there's clay, there's figure drawing, there's abstract, there's you have a lot that you can choose from.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

And kind of, oh, I gravitate towards this, or I like writing, so there's a typewriting, right? You can go type. Yeah, because that community space where you do start to share, you know. Yeah, but and then, right, maybe the painter sees the typewriter and has an idea.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:08

And then some sort of collaboration happens. Yeah, right. That could be a way to bring those down. But you know, to eliminate that, oh, I don't have the skill. If you put a bunch of skills out there, yeah, then you can kind of choose where you want to go.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

And then with being within that space, you might then collaborate and connect with someone whose skill set is something else. And so you kind of art then kind of opens that door, right, to share the skill set and maybe learn or then feel accepted within the skill set, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

Because you might also meet someone that has the skill that you think you have, but you don't know that you have, um, and can then like foster, maybe become a mentor in some way, and you know, it just kind of can grow from there.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Because maybe this is, I don't know if it's true or not, but in this situation that we're talking about, the only difference between a new person that goes and creates versus a person who's like been creating for a long time is there's nothing. There's no difference except that they're creating. Right. I know there is skill involved, I know the mediums could change, I know expression levels, all of that could change, but at the end of the day, both of those people are going and creating. Right. So I think what I'm trying to say is that maybe if we change this idea of like skills and all of these to leave that aside, at the end of the day, these are people who are creating, who want to create. Maybe that needs to be the first thing that needs to be the foundation. Now let's show the skills or whatever mediums that we use to express, because we at the end of the day, we are trying to tell a story. Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

Yes. Because also, like traditionally, Arch's always been kind of fueled as for like a certain creative, right? One that has the capabilities. And then you go to art school and you foster those capabilities and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're right. So you kind of in that framework, you take it away from a lot of other people.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

But there could be a way to bring that back by starting from a very baseline creative way, and then you start to build upon the skills for those that want to. There might be some that just want to stay in that. I just come here on my Saturdays and I just like to hang around. Maybe I'll paint something, but I really like to see what others are doing. Sometimes just exposure. Yeah, absolutely. You know, is enough to like spark something in someone, you know, letting the space be open to whomever. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Not even someone that maybe wants to come and create, but it's like, oh, maybe there's a coffee shop within this vicinity of what's happening. And I come and I get coffee, and I you then you start to notice, oh, there's stuff going on here. People are doing things. Could I try, you know? And so I like that. Right? That kind of that's a way to break down some of the barrier of even being like, oh, I don't have a skill, I can't go.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

You're right. It's watching other people create would would help for sure.

SPEAKER_04 41:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

I agree.

SPEAKER_04 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

This has been very stimulating conversation.

SPEAKER_04 41:15

It has been good. It has also felt like a conversation. It's nice. Yeah, yes, it's good.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

Um let's just thank you so much for being on the pod. I don't know how long it's been, but um what I what I what I take from talking to you is is it's cool how you grew up in the creative world and and and you you had that opportunity. Um, but then you take it further on as you go on, and now you have this mission to help kids that have been and inspiring. So that's really exciting, and I really hope uh our viewers are excited to, or at least inspired. Um, so I hope you keep dreaming, I hope you keep creating, and you I hope you keep going on your own creative Odyssey. Until next time, see you later. Thank you so much.