The Creative Odyssey Podcast

She Painted a Phoenix at 30. No Plan. No Permission. Just Paint. | Michelle Therese Alles

• Sheran Ranasinghe

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Art was beaten out of her as a kid. At 30 — after a bad breakup, no roadmap, no plan — she sat in front of a teak almirah door and started painting. A month later there was a phoenix on it. Someone bought the almirah a month after that. She didn't even know she could paint until the moment she picked up the brush.

That's who Michelle Therese Alles is. And this conversation is about what it actually costs to become who you were supposed to be.

Michelle is a journalist at the Daily FT in Colombo, Sri Lanka — a radio presenter, communications specialist, brand voice developer, and model who walked into Roxanne Dias's class to get enrollment information for a friend and signed up herself. She left an eight-year airline career one promotion away from security because something told her it was time. It took three years to know she was right. She doesn't regret a single day of it.

In this episode:

  • Why creativity gets suppressed in childhood — and how it finds its way back
  • Leaving a stable job when everyone says you're crazy
  • How she built a writing voice so distinct that editors identify her work without a byline
  • Why your inner child doesn't always need comforting — sometimes she calls you out
  • The difference between being and doing — and why high-output creatives lose themselves in the doing
  • Victim mode as a creative block — and what it takes to climb out
  • Why metrics can bury you and authenticity is the only strategy that compounds
  • What curiosity looks like when you're in your 40s and still going

This is one of the most honest conversations we've had on The Creative Odyssey Podcast. Recorded at Hatch Works in Sri Lanka as part of Sheran's 20-episode Sri Lanka recording series.

🎙️ Host: Sheran Ranasinghe 🎨 Guest: Michelle Therese Alles — Journalist, Radio Presenter, Communications Specialist | Daily FT, Colombo, Sri Lanka 📍 Recorded at: Hatch Works, Sri Lanka 🌐 https://medium.com/@michelletheresealles 📩 @myrunwayrecords Contact: thecreativeodysseypodcast@gmail.com 📸 Instagram: @thecreativeodysseypodcast | @sheranstories | @thisluckymichelle Produced by Odyssey House Media

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SPEAKER_02

I think in my case art was pretty much beaten out of me until I grew up and many years later I was I had just been through a really bad breakup and something told me okay I wanna draw but I'm not sure what to draw. Okay fine I couldn't do this with the wall back then let me do this with the door right now. So I take my pen and I start sketching and it took me about a month.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

What I did was the message in it is hope. Whoever looks at this will feel hopeful, will feel like they have another chance, they will always be able to move forward. That was the intention I put into it and I drew it. Someone bought the cupboard a month later. I've spent so long listening to society and not being able to be me that it's gonna come to a time where I'll wake up one morning and it'll it'll all be over. It'll be too late. Do hold yourself back until you wake up and realize time is running out because we all think we have time but we don't and I would say that creating whatever you can when you can it's that moment when inspiration hits you go for it you don't hold back because I took the chance and I have no regrets many years later.

SPEAKER_05

Hi welcome to the Creative Artists Podcast. My name is Sharan and today we are recording at Hatchworks in Sri Lanka. It's a startup hub where creativity and technology meet. They solve human problems and come up with creative solutions. And today I have here with me uh Michelle, a dancer uh no, a model. Today I have Michelle with me who's a model and a journalist and many other things.

SPEAKER_02

That's completely fine. We just met this morning, anyways.

SPEAKER_05

That is true. On the phone.

SPEAKER_01

I know.

SPEAKER_05

So Michelle, the Creative Odyssey podcast is about highlighting creatives and their journey and how they came into their creative identity. So to start with that, I would like to know what kind of a person little Michelle was. And then let's go from there.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so little Michelle, like many other children of the time, was creative, was fun, but then there are times you know you grow up and your family tells you have to be A or B or C or follow this particular profession or career and then you just wind up leaving yourself behind. So when I got to when I left school and got to the path where I had to choose my career, I picked an airline simply because one of my cousins was in the field and it looked cool. So while I was working at the airline, I worked there for eight years, but I'd always known I could write because in school when everybody didn't like finishing essays or English literature and all that, I was right there. I was always in the middle of things, and I I suddenly remembered that I could write, and on the way I was like, hey wait, I can do this, but I don't know what to do with it. So fast forward to eight years later, I leave the airline just when I'm in line for a promotion and everyone thinks I'm crazy.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

But I was like, no, I want to do this. I leave the airline and for two years I take a break. I'm just like I'm just writing whatever comes into my head. And then my first words were like, hi, I can write, I don't know what to do with my gift. And I called an advertising agency in Colombo, and I said the same thing to the city. I was like, so I can write, but I don't know what to do with it. If you're looking for somebody who is ra into writing, can I please work with you? And he's like, sure, I know what to do with you.

SPEAKER_01

Come.

SPEAKER_02

So and I never look back from there. I started off as a copywriter and the following year I finished my internship and I went into more senior content. I also started modeling alongside this. So at one point in time I was working for uh five magazines, lifestyle magazines, and two newspapers and modeling, and it it was a lot going on. Yeah. And uh the COVID hit, and after that there was like a lot of publications are not in print anymore, but it's picking up now, and I like where we are going now because when it comes to content creation, there's so much more that has opened up where we can express ourselves creatively.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, wow, that's that's a lot you've been on a journey. So real quick, explain to me, you talked about society a little bit, like help might be us understanding the circumstances and how you kind of weird away from creativity.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I can draw, but I did not realize that I can draw until much later in life because I think art was sort of suppressed when I was a kid, you know, when you want to every kid wants to draw on the wall. And while it is uh well, people are okay with it now, it they were certainly not okay with it back then. So they were always, uh oh no, no, you don't do that, or you stop that, or they smack you. And I think in my case art was pretty much beaten out of me. Until I grew up and many years later I was I had just been through a really bad breakup and something told me, okay, I want to draw, but I'm not sure what to draw. And then I talked to my friend and he was like, You don't have to have a plan, just sit in front of whatever you want to draw and art will come to you. And I was like, okay, that makes some sense. So I sit in front of you like this, I sit in front of one of the teak almeras that were very valuable back in the day. Grandmother, mother. I'm sitting in front of this door and I'm like, okay, I want to draw on this now. I mean, yeah, I didn't, I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_05

How old were you at this point?

SPEAKER_02

I was in my 30s.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, I couldn't do this back then. I'd let okay, fine, I couldn't do this with a wall back then. Let me do this with a door right now. So I take my pant and I start sketching, and it took me about a month.

SPEAKER_04

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Flash forward to a month later, there's a phoenix on that door. Wow. What I did was the message in it is hope. Whoever looks at this will feel hopeful, will feel like they have another chance, they will always be able to move forward. That was the intention I put into it, and I drew it. Someone bought the cupboard a month later.

SPEAKER_05

No way. All the thusiastic friends, what to draw from you draw anything. Wait, so you were 30 years old, so there's so much that happened before that.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Writing was for the longest time, writing was my form of creative expression, but I also realized like along that journey I realized that I can draw and I can also make things. Like I'm good at making jewelry and a lot of other stuff. Like I'm very I excuse the expression, good with my hands, but in a way that I can create stuff.

SPEAKER_05

You're multi-passionate.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So again, discovering all that, I would say late twenties, early thirties, and late thirties. Now you know how old I am. But what I have to say though here is that there's never a right time or a wrong time, there's never a certain age to you know start creating or stop or or or i it it you just need to follow your own path, your own journey and do what works for you. Because coming from a place where everyone told me, oh, don't do this at this time, you have to do this at this time, or something like that. And at that point in time, you know, you get so confused. You hold yourself back. You are your own worst enemy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And you hold yourself back until you wake up and realize time is running out. Because we all think we have time, but we don't. And I would say that creating whatever you can when you can, it's that moment when inspiration hits. You go for it, you don't hold back because I took the chance and I have no regrets many years later.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. How do you define cre uh cre how do you define creativity?

SPEAKER_02

It would be inspiration, something that something where you're not expecting something that hits you and you're least expecting it. And you just you know you put it out there. It can be in the form of words, in the form of something you make or something you paint or build, but it's such a wide form of expression. So I don't even think that you can put a definition to it.

SPEAKER_05

Interesting, yeah. So okay, so when did you realize you were a creative? And was it through the the journaling newspaper, the journal, you know, what do you call uh I'm forgetting what you call yourself.

SPEAKER_01

A journalist.

SPEAKER_05

A journalist, thank you. But was it when it that happened or no?

SPEAKER_02

I think I think advertising helped me a lot. Really? Back then, because it helped you channel the creative energy and the place I was working in, they they let you express yourself. So I always have to give props to them for this. When I came into the field and all I knew was that I can write, and I'm like, okay, I can put a sent I can put a sentence together and get paid for it, great. But it was that field. I I'm not particularly referring to one company, although the company I work for was amazing. But the field in general does help anyone with their creative expression, they are supportive, they are very caring, they help you discover yourself. So I love this, I love the field. And even though I'm not in it anymore and I'm a journalist, but I always give props to advertising.

SPEAKER_00

We're so excited to share with you all the episodes that we filmed in Sri Lanka. We know a lot of you have been waiting, but we wanted to make sure that we did this really meaningfully because it really was an exciting time. When Sharon first came to me and said he was gonna take the podcast to Sri Lanka, I honestly thought he was crazy.

SPEAKER_05

And so did I. I was like, is there any possibility we can fit this in? I want to try to bring the podcast in, get to know people, and interview videos.

SPEAKER_00

So we expected to have just a few conversations, maybe a little sparks of inspiration here and there, but what happened was so much deeper than that. We met so many people that not only we you got to interview, but that also like came alongside us to help make these conversations happen.

SPEAKER_05

The crazy thing was this daring idea of going to a country, even though I'm from Sri Lanka. I hadn't been back for like seven years, and all I knew was some people from school that I went to and some social that I'm following, but didn't really have a concrete plan to make it happen. And some days we had six, seven episodes back-to-back recorded because people were waiting and you were kind of facilitating that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so it felt really significant because not only was it that we were having like these raw and authentic conversations, but a lot of their stories resonated with Geron's, and so it just was really fascinating to see them speaking the same language and to see like just this commonality of creativity and identity and purpose coming out as the themes of these conversations.

SPEAKER_05

You must be wondering when this trip happened. It happened in September, and uh the goal was to get these episodes out by September. Well, a lot of things happen, and I didn't want to diminish the work we put in and again the amazing gifts that we've had. So we decided to do something really cool, and we're gonna export however many we can a week.

SPEAKER_00

So, LinkedIn, every single episode, you'll find a free PDF. It's actually a magazine that we developed. You can kind of think of it like if you go to a concert and you get like the souvenir of what happened behind the scenes and just about the different artists and all those things. We wanted to share with you not only about Tron's journey, but then help you connect with some of the guests that we interview in Sri Lanka and then invite you on your own creative Odyssey.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, there's so much more that goes into all that fuels this podcast, which is this this mission to inspire people to create so that they can get on with themselves and connect with their child. So to see that we could bring that story out of Sri Lanka creatives out.

SPEAKER_00

Our hope is that whether you're living in the States, you're living in Sri Lanka, or somewhere else around the world, you'll connect with someone's story within Sri Lanka and it might inspire you to continue on your own creative goddesses.

SPEAKER_05

The link to the PDF for the magazine is in the description, and please check it out. They're doing really cool things that I really think you should be checking out to see their journeys. So without further ado, let's get to the episode. Okay, so you've gone into like you've tried different kinds of creative stuff. When was the time you kind of stopped listening to people and just like do whatever the heck you want?

SPEAKER_02

I think I would say um I think when you hit when I hit 30, I was like, oh wow, you know, when you're a kid, 30 feels really old, right? And then suddenly fast forward and you're 30, and I'm like, uh, okay, so kind of in the game the middle dialogue. So I think whatever I whatever I do now doesn't really matter. And even if people have an opinion about it, well that's too bad because I've spent so long listening to society and not being able to be me that it's gonna come to a time where I'll wake up one morning and it'll it'll all be over and it'll be too late, and then I'll be you know a little old lady with a cane and I'll look back on my life and be like, what did I do with it? So there's actually somebody who is very close to me and he calls me his nickname for me is Wild Child. So uh because I and I well I always tell him, you know, you cannot afford to point fingers at me with that. So it's basically pot calling the kettle black, but but he is somebody who who also has been through a lot in his life and he is actually one of my mentors in a field that I am in, and he also has seen he's seen a lot, experienced a lot.

SPEAKER_01

So I think I would agree that I am wild, I just I don't look at the you look at me and you know you see a very serious journalist or someone, you know, who is occasionally expressing herself in a fashion shoot or something like that.

SPEAKER_02

But there's a lot that you know which you sometimes hold back inside, and I would say put it all out and you know don't worry about what people have to think, just let it out and express yourself.

SPEAKER_05

Right. So when I look at creatives, right? If you look at a create the creatives Odyssey, usually uh they are kind of kind of fine, trying to find their passions and whatnot. And somewhere along the way they figure out their creative identity. Like, oh, like this is what I'm supposed to do, like all this time I was supposed to be this person, but I was trying to pretend and be something else and whatnot. What how can you tell somebody w what's the advice you can give to that kind of person who already knows that they're different, right? That they are multi-passionate or whatever. And how can you kind of if you were to give them a guideline, a path, how can I how can they get to that point of like a creative identity?

SPEAKER_02

I think the first thing I would say, this is from my own experience, is that you know, and the gut feeling sounds very cliche, but you know when you're doing the right thing, I mean you're on the right path, because it feels right. When you're not, and when you have so many voices from outside telling you what you should and shouldn't do, you just feel very crowded, you feel very uh unsettled and uneasy. But when you're on the right path and you're following what you want to be following and being whom you are meant to be or who you want to be, you feel very peaceful, you feel very settled. So I would say anybody who wants to follow their passion should always you the rule of thumb is if you feel settled, if you feel calm inside, no matter what's going on around you, if you feel good about it, go for it.

SPEAKER_05

What do you have to say about the people saying like that's a massive risk, you shouldn't be taking that kind of risk?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I already experienced that when I was leaving the airline because everyone was like, Oh, you're you've been in the field for about eight years, now you're settled here.

SPEAKER_05

Uh Were you like 28 at that time then?

SPEAKER_02

Uh around, yes.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So they were like, You're settled in this field, you're you know, you're up for a promotion, you're going to go to a better place. And leaving this now, you'll have to start from scratch and you're not gonna earn that much. And and I still I was scared. Of course I was. I mean, everyone would be taking a risk like that. But I knew that if I didn't follow through with it, I would definitely regret it in the future. So I listened to what everyone told me. I thanked them for what they were saying, and then I went ahead and did it anyway.

SPEAKER_01

I smiled politely as well, if that helps. Wow.

SPEAKER_05

That's awful. I didn't learn I didn't think to smile.

SPEAKER_02

Smiling helps.

SPEAKER_05

So okay, you took the j the risk. And how long did it take for you to feel like okay, I didn't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

The prizing just three years. I was surprised too, because I had expected to, you know, like work hard and grind and but see again your energies are very subtle, right? When you're following the path that you want to follow. Yes, my first article was horrible. I look back at it now and I cringe. And today I'm writing I'm covering forums for uh like business related forums, and I'm like, wow, you know, how did this happen? Right. So yeah, you you make it, and sometimes you make it quicker than you expect to. But it depends, it all depends on well how much energy you put into it as well. There's like and now there's like so much of tools to help you out. But I'm starting writing a writing career from scratch where I had I all I had was my talent, I would say, something I'm blessed with, and that was it. And then from there I just I was I read I it I think in my case a lot of reading was involved. So I would read, I read every journalist, every writer I could think of. In the hopes of particularly of yeah.

SPEAKER_03

In the hopes of what?

SPEAKER_02

In the hopes of being able to write a straight article. So you were trying. But what happened is that while like I think maybe the first uh few months of in of being in the field, I I made the mistake of trying to follow someone else's style and it didn't come out right. And along the way I realized, okay, let me just use my voice and it got to a point where it became so distinct that people would know when I've written an article even though my name is not in it. They were like, you okay, you wrote this and oh okay, how do you know? Wow.

unknown

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

So and even now I can't even use AI tools to write because people know that it's not me, it's not my voice, it's not my style. So Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So now you're into Do you see modeling as a way to express yourself and creativity?

SPEAKER_02

That's a whole other form of expression because first of all, how did you get into it? Okay. That's an interesting question. So I was I went to my friend, another friend, wanted to get into modeling and I was like, fine, I'll come with you to no way that's It literally happened. I said, I'll come with you to get the info. But she couldn't make it on that particular day, and I was like, fine, I'll go by myself then. So I walk into Rosa and Dious. I walk into her class and I'm like, so I need some details about your class for my friend, and then she's like, she gives me the details, she's like, Cool. Wait, what about you? Don't you want her? And I'm like, nah, I don't think I can, right? And she's like, You should just sign up.

SPEAKER_05

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02

And twelve years later.

SPEAKER_05

So how do you look at modeling now?

SPEAKER_02

It has evolved. I'm I'm happy to see where they have come, but I still say, and this may be an unpopular opinion, but I say that AI cannot replace a human in in a in any advertisement or in any other form of modeling. For sure.

SPEAKER_05

So you're writing, you're a model, and what are the things that are you are you still paint and draw?

SPEAKER_02

I still paint and draw. I even painted something for a stage play recently. Wow.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So what is your process? What is your creative process? How does it happen in in whatever you do? Where from inspiration to end of a thing?

SPEAKER_02

It depends on what I'm supposed to be creating, but most of the time I I just get like a visual and I don't stop like even right now, there's going to be something I'm starting soon with denim. That's all I'll tell you right now. But it's just images I have in my head and I don't stop until what I see out there is matching what's in my head. It's not an easy place sometimes. I'm very hard on myself and I push myself way too much. I also criticize myself a lot, which you have to find a balance, but and sometimes the process is very excruciating, but the end result is worth it.

SPEAKER_05

Is there anything such as a healthy creative?

SPEAKER_01

That is subjective. But all my creatives have been healthy.

SPEAKER_05

Because the way I'm asking is I I think I think you cannot be hundred percent uh uh lost the word imposter syndrome free. I don't think you can hundred percent be free of imposter syndrome. That's what I mean. I think like is is like a hundred percent free imposter syndrome achievable in your opinion.

SPEAKER_02

Let's leave that to the future. Maybe follow my space.

SPEAKER_05

No, just keep following guys because you give you answer. So, what is the vision for you? What's the future look like to you? What is this path leading you to go to?

SPEAKER_02

I okay, coming from a place where I didn't grow up with AI and with, you know, with social media, and I'm now using tools to create, and I find them I I am not threatened by them, but I'm using them to help me create better. I've also got into designing recently simply because I liked it, but I just found it a little bit dull to you know sit down and just move the mouse around. No offense to any of the design creatives out there, but uh lately I mean when you have a when you have courses that are shorter and help you learn faster, I've uh discovered that creating stuff is very interesting. And I did work for a radio station recently. I wound up changing most of their social media posts and doing my own creatives for their posters and their posts and designs and things like that. So, maybe again watch my space.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so you are a content creator. I am. Sorry, I wish I had a chance to like research you in literally, I mean doing podcasts all day. So, how did you get into content space and how do you see that as a creative expression?

SPEAKER_02

Interestingly, it was this particular radio station because they were very they were really cool with like they just let me do obviously staying in within their certain requirements, but they let me do what I wanted, sort of be myself, like I had guidance and I had training, but it was more like yeah, try this and see it'll work. And they my boss at the time he was very empowering, he would always be like, you know, don't depend on me, you know, you figure it out and show me the finished result if I like it, you're good. And most of the time he did like what I was creating. So I was like, Wow, you know, I I it's not just writing after all, right? I can create too. So it's been fun.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. Let me see here. Um so a lot of people like, especially in the social media space, right, very like trend conscious and metrics conscious and things like that. In a world like that, is that how you drive yourself, or how do you differentiate yourself and find your authenticity?

SPEAKER_02

While the numbers are important, I would say that sometimes they can also bury you and they can put pressure on you to be what be to do what you're not good at or maybe not what is going wait, let me put that in a different way. To not be yourself and not create what you want to create. And sometimes you're so busy following trends, or you're so concerned as to okay, what will someone say or what will someone think. You know, you like there is a unique aspect of you that when you put it out, it does resonate with a whole lot of other people, which again I would say at the start I made the mistake of trying to be something just because other people were, but now I realize that when I am genuinely me, people do notice. And I I there are times I hold myself that I'm like, no, stop, you know, what if people don't like it? And then and there's always something that comes up to make me realize no they they do like it. They just they just don't I've never heard anything negative when I put something out there and everyone's like, okay, this is nice, how did you do it? And I'm like, I don't know, I just can't do it.

SPEAKER_05

So So let's say somebody is watching and doesn't matter the age, right? And they hear people say like, be authentic, be authentic, be genuinely yourself. How does one do that in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02

How did I do it? I didn't I think okay, I think if you are real, like if you stay true to yourself, because if you How does one do that? I don't know, because it just comes naturally to me. Because what happens is if I I've and again from experience, if I've tried to be something I'm not, I don't feel right. I don't feel good. I feel very restricted, very suppressed, and that whole experience goes back to when I was a kid and everyone was holding me back. So I'm like I think for me particularly when I write stuff down, it helps me to process. So even if I am about to draw something, I would always make notes on what either by hand or type it out or something like that. But I guess for me, writing stuff down helps. So I think if anyone is a creative, maybe prepare preparing beforehand, like I don't know, sketching or writing or researching or something like that would really help. But don't don't ever let don't ever hold yourself back or let anyone hold you back from being what you want to be.

SPEAKER_05

In your day-to-day routine, is there a certain way you allow yourself to be creative or connect with yourself? Or how does that work? Do you do some work out or whatever? Like how does your process work?

SPEAKER_02

Working out does work. I do a lot of yoga, but I think I saw this expression on social media once where it says, if I don't write to empty my mind, I will go crazy. And I can completely agree with that because if I don't write to empty my mind, I just have a whole lot of stuff inside, and I can't. So I do journal a lot and I put it all out there, and it helps me process myself, it helps me know myself, but it has also helped me confront very dark parts of myself that would otherwise be buried in there because a lot of us are all about love and light and all things bright, but there is a part of you that you have to confront, because if you do not meet your demons and know them and know why they are there, you need you really need to do that because you do not you are not able to know yourself fully because we all come with a little mix of everything. So, if you bury that part of you just wind up being a very constricted and suppressed person. So, there are times when currently I have I am confronting my need to be in control of things, and because it is always like ok, I need to know what is going on, I need to know there are some questions which have not got answers yet, and it there is an urge to push for it, to push for the outcome, to control the outcome. And lately I have been following certain other creators where they talk about just being and not doing, and uh that is not easy at all. So, I am currently in this situation, okay. How do I be? Because I am so used to doing and making something happen. So, uh meditation helps a lot, and also creativity is a form of meditation.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, I believe it.

SPEAKER_02

We are getting we will get there in a bit, but lately, so for me it is just the process, I am breathing through it now, okay. Like I okay, I cannot do, I have to maybe wait for a little while to reveal the answers to me. It's not easy, it is very uh for me, it's been very uh how do I say uh very freeing? Sorry?

SPEAKER_05

Freeing experience?

SPEAKER_02

No, it's been a freeing, okay.

SPEAKER_05

You get that.

SPEAKER_02

It's been like a very sort of like I'm like, hmm, I want to know what's going on. I'm so restless. But when when that then as one point in time I told myself just yesterday, I was like, okay, breathe, you're gonna be fine. You just leave need to uh you need to learn that the answers will come to you instead of pushing for them. So uh few rounds of meditation did help and okay.

SPEAKER_05

Very cool, because you know, I didn't realize that there was a term, but I've been talking to a bunch of tech people and they call it thinking time. And I I've been doing this for the last year, I think, uh where every day I have about at least 45 to hour uh minutes to hour where I just sit and I have no agenda. I might have a notepad near me if thoughts come. But the idea is to kind of literally just sit there and let all the thoughts come out. It's actually meditation, I realize too. But I wasn't trying to do it for that purpose. I would just like it's cool whenever I sit in quietly, after all the the thoughts come out, then there is this silence in that process. And the silence is cool because for the most part, like it is silent, but then randomly something kind of pops up, really tiny, like you know, like a almost like a little tinkle. And then I would catch that, I would like curiosity like where why is this coming up at this point? And I kind of just like slowly follow that path until I'm done. And usually at the end of it, there's a truth about myself or something false that I was believing in. And and then also like I feel like whatever path I'm on, especially on the podcast, like I say this the idea when I got the idea to come to Sri Lanka and record 20 episodes, like it came in one of those sessions. And my only thing is I don't get to judge the idea when it comes, I just write it down and I take it seriously as if it's something that I'm supposed to do. It's my curiosity telling me what to do. And here I am, like literally.

SPEAKER_02

How is it when you said judge the idea? There's a lot of times that we do judge our ideas and we are like, Are you crazy? You're having a mental conversation, you know, what are you thinking? It's not gonna work. Right, right. And getting past that is very important because it may sound outlandish, but when you actually follow that trend, you do come up with a lot of interesting stuff that'll take you to a different place that you didn't expect to be. And also, if you had not gone along that particular train of thought, you wouldn't be there.

SPEAKER_05

And that's why I kind of talk about creativity as a way to connect with your inner child. Every time I have like a crazy idea or whatever, I would think of talking to my younger self. So, like little Shiran, I'm like, I would never tell little Shiran that's a crazy idea. I'd be like, Whoa, that's actually cool that you thought of that. Like we encourage kids to dream and imagine, right? At least now we do that he didn't do that in the past. So that's how I got over it. So that it's like very simple to me. It's very simple, straightforward. If I have a crazy idea, I go straight to the younger Shiran and be like, hey, buddy, you're dreaming. It's cool. Like it's not an outlandish idea.

SPEAKER_02

One interesting thing that I in these conversations with my with little me that I came across is I know we talk a lot about healing our inner child and going back and you know, sort of telling them, it's okay, I got you. There's a flip side to it. Where your inner child calls you out on things that you have not done. And there was one particular time where I I had one of those meditation sessions with myself, and I was like, you know, I'm I'm I'm trying to comfort her, and she turns around and tells me, hey, you have not done this X, Y, Z, and what are you doing now? And I'm like, bro, I okay, where is this coming from?

SPEAKER_03

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

I even wrote it all down. It's gonna go into a book someday. That's all. You got it here first?

SPEAKER_05

Let's go, make sure you're not going to do that.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, it can take the other side as well. So what I would say is if there's a situation where your inner channel calls you out, pay attention, see why they're saying what they're saying, and take notes and keep going ahead.

SPEAKER_05

Wow, that's super cool. Yeah, because I've heard that, I've now not heard the other side around.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. It surprised me too, because when it first happened to me, I was also like, whoa.

SPEAKER_05

Well, I just recently heard uh from our good friend Ty, you know, his own daughter, when he said, Oh, I can do this, like he was kinda moved chairs upstairs or whatever, and he was upstairs and he was telling his friend, I can't do this, I'm too old or whatever. The kid was yelling from the downstairs and like, no, daddy, you can't do it. You know, and he's like, Oh my gosh, like that's true. I I have to. So it's funny, like it kind of connects that to me now even more. So that's why I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_01

His daughter is one of my favorite people.

SPEAKER_05

Not him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I managed around here.

SPEAKER_05

I'm thinking, um, so with everything that you have gone through and like your childhood and all of these things, how can we empower young people to not fall into the same trap that we did and find their like inner selves and those kinds of things? How can we encourage that from a young age? Because even journaling was more of a like writing in the diary type of thing, like what you ate and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it was never really like what's inside you, and like you know, it was never marketed the proper way.

SPEAKER_02

It never was, yeah. So how I did have a phase where I would write in my journal about what I ate for dinner and so in the Instagram early days, right?

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't think about it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05

In the early days of Instagram, maybe posted pictures of just food and it was not about businesses and building brands.

SPEAKER_02

And look at where we are today.

SPEAKER_05

I never thought of this.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so to answer your question, I think there has to be a sweet spot there because see there are times, I mean you cannot be too hard, like okay, basically do not be what we had to face when we were kids. But also on the other side, you know, don't there has to be some sort of like an accountability where you know they know where they are going, they know what they want to do, but they should not get too complacent.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So they have to always, you know, there has to always be that challenge. And also if something is bothering them, like ask themselves why is it bothering me? What is this teaching me? Because a lot of times when somebody has a problem, they just cry about it or they'll vent or aren't to somebody they know, and then they're uh you know, they get into this kind of a victim thing. So a lot of society is in victim mode. Right. I've had to pull myself out of victim mode, I am still pulling myself out of victim mode because that is not fun at all. But what I have learned from this whole thing is like if something comes up where someone is mean to me or someone says something, I am like, wait, why is this happening? What am I learning from this? Is this a message where I can learn something from it? And usually most of the time it is a message. So, like I said, the sweet spot is where you don't let too much of it bother you, where you self-destruct and you also you know don't get too whiny about it, where you use that to empower you to move forward for your highest good.

SPEAKER_05

Have you ever thought like why we go into that victim mode?

SPEAKER_02

There are so many reasons. I would say it's it's hard to explain in I think you need to do a separate podcast for this. But there is a lot where you have I think in general people have a very poor me kind of mindset. So I I and that does that just holds you back, and I've seen how much it held me back for most of my life. So there are there are all these beliefs from childhood that I've had to pull out and bring to the surface, and again meditation helps because the deeper you breathe, the more you know yourself. And that's when the that's when you get quiet within, and you know everything just comes up and you have these thoughts like why why is this like this or why is X or Y or whatever? And then you you take it all out and you lay it there and you sit with it, and that's when you can heal.

SPEAKER_04

One final thing.

SPEAKER_05

What does curiosity uh play in your life? What what role does it play?

SPEAKER_01

It hasn't killed me yet. So now I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. But I'm always I think I just love curiosity because I like learning and even at a point where people are like, Oh, you're in your forties, you know, why are you still doing this or still doing that, or why haven't you done what someone else is doing, which is like getting married or having children or whatever, and there there's always the questions, right? But I would say okay, aside from doing what we want to do when we want to do it, we should if there is something that we are curious about or we want to learn, I do not think age is ever a ever a barrier to learning something. I also do not think that I think if you you need to ask yourself questions, you need to ask questions from outside, if you want to learn something, research it. But upselling, no, upskilling yourself is always a good thing. Right. And you can never, I think we are we are we will literally be learning until we draw our last breath. So it's a learning process. I would say be curious, ask questions, learn, improve yourself. It's never too late or never too early, go for it.

SPEAKER_05

Alissa, thank you so much for being on the podcast. You are a breath of fresh air and you actually made me think something and inspired me to even think more deeper. So thank you for being here, Anashotch Talk for this. I'm so excited to go and follow your Instagrams and actually see what you do and even be more inspired. Yeah, that's all for now. All I gotta say is keep dreaming, keep creating, keep going on your own creative Odyssey. Next time, see you later.