He Had 8 Careers. None of Them Were Wasted. | Ammar Ahamed

What if every job you've ever had was building toward something you can't see yet?

Ammar Ahamed didn't plan to become a growth marketer, a startup founder, or a skill development entrepreneur. He planned to be a journalist. Then HR felt safer. Then PR felt right. Then employer branding took him across Sri Lanka, Indonesia, and Jordan. Then growth marketing found him. Now he's running two companies while heading growth at an AI firm in Singapore — and he commutes three hours a day by public transport from Mawenella to Colombo.

None of it was a detour. All of it was the portfolio.

In this conversation recorded at Hatch.lk in Colombo as part of the Sri Lanka Series, Ammar makes the case that your job title is a corporate categorization tool — not your identity. Your skills compound across every role you take. And the skills you most need might be ones you don't even know you have yet.

What we get into:
- Why Ammar calls his career a portfolio instead of a path
- How he went from newspaper clippings to key account manager in 3 months
- The hidden skills you carry that experimentation unlocks
- The fake podcast that revealed his real ability
- What the Hatch startup community taught him about creative courage
- Why coding, farming, and engineering are all forms of creativity
- The 60/40 rule: why soft skills matter more than technical ones
- How to upskill, reskill, and reinvent yourself — starting now

Download the free Sri Lanka Podcast Tour Magazine:
https://stan.store/TheCreativeOdysseyPodcast/p/get-inside-the-creative-odyssey-magazine

🎙️ Hosted by Sheran Ranasinghe
🎬 Produced by Odyssey House Media
📍 Recorded at Hatch.lk, Colombo, Sri Lanka
🌐 thecreativeodysseypodcast.com
📧 thecreativeodysseypodcast@gmail.com
🎵 Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/12SGsSsLz4DqlLFwxigjXX
🍎 Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/pl/podcast/the-creative-odyssey-podcast/id1750306317

Find Ammar: ammarahamed.life | @ammar.ahd

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

This has always helped us throughout time and I don't want to stick myself to the title of just a market over time. Because we we all have marketing skills. Yes. I feel like we all have certain skills. It's not your identity, it's just a drug title. It's just my Amar is my identity. Right. This is why I wanted to always build on this element of skill development. Because I don't see it as one career focused skill or role.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

And and this this uh notion of a career portfolio as collecting skills, I think is much more exciting. You get a lot of opportunities to do some cool stuff and you keep your curiosity alive.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah, like for example, if you are a handyman, you have a tool stack with you. You have a hammer, you have a uh screwdriver, and you use each of these tools for a different purpose. You don't use a hammer to remove to screw something in. Just like our skills, you must have certain artistic skills as well. Technical skills as well. And it's a mix of all this that comes together to make the creative person who they are. So this the the tool sets do change, but the skill sets is what defines it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

I just got done recording two days of my podcast, Creative Artists Podcast, here at Hatch.lk, one of the leading startup hubs in Sri Lanka, because my goal was to be able to tell stories of unique creatives here who are crazy enough to think that they can actually solve problems. To be here at Hatch and be inspired in what I'm doing, and to be able to tell these stories and have this uh studio and opportunity. I'm super grateful to Hatch. I feel affirmed in my mission to highlight creatives, and when I saw individuals from startups like inviting their own friends to be on here, so I can highlight their stories in the unique way of thinking. Every single one of them has so much uh insight to provide to anybody who's watching this, anybody who's thinking that they're not good enough to do what they're doing. Seeing stories from doctors who have changed uh careers into running startups to journalists to doing this kind of things, like it gives me so much hope to be able to share this to others to say that like wherever you are at, if you're not passionate about what you're doing and you're stuck in your own bubble or whatever, find communities like Hatch because it is gonna be the best thing that you do for yourself because the community is absolutely amazing. Hatch, thank you so much for the support you provided. I can't wait to show you the amazing stories and the insights your own people are going to share with the world. So we have Amar here today, and then I'm super excited to get into uh his story. Uh so Amar, first of all, thank you for being on the podcast. Thanks so much. Um what do you do and how do you explain to somebody who has no idea about your field?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Currently, I'm into marketing. I think that's what people know me for mostly. Uh I've been in marketing for the last eight years, but I also run a skill development company that is pretty recent. Uh I have backgrounds in HR and journalism. A lot of people across a lot of segments and audiences know me for different things. Um people still think I'm an HR because I used to be an HR like eight years ago. Uh but right now my profession, as my title goes, is um I'm a growth marketer.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

A growth marketer. Uh how do you explain what a growth market is?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

A growth marketer is a link between product, technology, marketing, sales. It's a mix of all. The role of product marketing, uh, growth marketing can actually change from company to company based on what the prerequisites and uh interests are. Uh in the company that I work for currently, uh it's too it's mostly do with uh a lot of brand marketing, uh product marketing, and a bit to do with sales as well. So it's a mix though. Uh it's uh something that people do use uh frequently these days, most in the tech space, but it's something that's growing fast as well.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

So you've been a marketer, a journalist. Oh journalist before marketer. Yeah. Journalist before marketer.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

As soon as I was out of school, um, I did two things. The first thing is um I loved journalism. Ever since school, I was part of the media club, was heading it, and then uh wanted to always be a journalist. Uh so I went to the school of journalism, Hoggy Journalism. In the meantime, I went to HR as well. I thought HR was to be my job, journalism was to be my hobby. Oh um, interesting, what happened was um you know, I was I'm a different person, so I used to go deeper into truths. So I love to do investigative journalism. Investigative journalism. My mom told me that I'll get killed for sure. She is right, she is right. Right, right, 100%, especially at the time. Yeah, and she was concerned as well. So the idea was that I can do journalism, but I can't obviously go into this stuff. So what I did was from there I pivoted into brand journalism. Um which was not technically always um focused on real stories itself, but I was trying to do that. And from there I moved on to public relations. Um I was at a consultancy, one of the it was a affiliate of one of the world's biggest ones. Um managed around 30, 40 brands. I started off very small. Um I went into clipping. So what do you mean by clipping is every morning the newspaper, you might your brands or your customers' brands or clients' brands would be featured in. I think clipping off that is into the client. That was my first role. Uh in three months I was uh account manager, and in a year I was a key account manager.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

In three months, wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

It was exciting. Uh I loved what I did, Andrew. It was a great team. I learned a lot from my team. Um I'm super thankful for all my managers, my colleagues. I learned a lot from them. And that was how that journey of journalism, a PR, went in. Uh, and that has still been a part of me because in journalism you learn to always uh look into both sides of a story. Right. That's a skill that you unconsciously learn because every story has two sides. Uh, even if it's an incident, it has two sides, a person's story, uh at work. There's always two sides, and maybe multiple sides too. Uh even the third part of you. So journalism taught me to always look into that unconsciously, and that has helped me throughout my journey. Even in marketing, I am also unconsciously thinking about what the customer might be thinking. Umconsciously. Yeah, because it's a part of it, right? Yeah, I see what you're saying. Okay, okay. It's not something I have to train myself on. It's always there. Right. Um, and it's been there. So what I'm always uh what I've also tried to promote also is that um I'm a kinesthetic learner, I'm not someone I don't I hate classrooms. I hate lecture halls. I can't learn in lecture halls um as much as I want to. I can't stay in one place. Uh even uh my colleagues know this. I need to take on a laptop, I walk around office. Uh, I can't stay put in one place because that's not who I am. Um there's this energy boost that I need, and just walking around talking to people, uh, it's exciting for me. I like to learn on the go. So I learn by doing, not learn by watching or seeing. Even if it's a YouTube video, I need to do it myself if I want to learn. Otherwise, I might forget it too. Correct. Yeah, so um, so I try to always keep that in power. Uh so how this happened, so everything that in terms of marketing too, if you really look back into it, I learned to write properly in journalism. I learned to look into stories in journalism. I looked into I learned to look into both sides of a story in journalism. If it's recording, if it's uh videography, photography, um all this, I got the basics there. From there, when I went into PR agency, I learned how brands think, how brands want people to think, and how all these things come together into shaping what a person's mind might go through when buying a product, getting a product in place, or even um even thinking of any brand out there. So I've learned how to build a brand from scratch there. I had the tools. Now I came here, I understood the psychology behind it and how to raise it over time. Um and that was a skill that I learned there. And from that on that, from then on, and I moved into a bit more into product marketing, we would create products that the customers might need. Um in this time too, I was working for a big manufacturer out of Sri Lanka. Um I did uh employer branding for them and employee communications and executive communications. So executive communications is where you have your leaders of the company that talk to people that can be your employees and outside. So we work with them to structure proper uh content and you know help them out with what to speak, what not to speak, help them with events, all of that. They already have something in mind. But we also want we have a third-party view to it and we try to support them with that. Uh, employee branding is about showing the truth about employees. I do not want to just show off things for the sake of it, but we actually did cool things and we showed them out. And that was what we would really vouch for. Uh, employer branding, um, employee communications, all of this came together. But in the meantime, um, it was across three countries, uh, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, and Jordan, which is pretty interesting as well. Uh, Jordan speaks uh Arabic, right? Indonesia speaks a different language. Right. Um, but we had some amazing team members uh who were really passionate and who were supportive, I would say. Um in a lot of ways that made it possible. So that was one part there. Hard skill that I always had. Um I feel like people always tell this to me as well. People do tell me that um I'm a good communicator and I'm a good networker. I don't see networking as a gig or as a role. Yeah, it's just a part of whoever we are. Yeah, you we spoke, we meet, uh, we spoke to the team, the larger team. We just walk around town, we might meet people. Um so I take a public transport. Um whenever there's this manufacturing manufactured company, we used to have our key shirts. So whenever it's a big manufactured company, we have over hundreds of employees uh around the world, and in Sri Lanka too, we have a lot. So by the time we go out of office, there's a high chance I'll meet someone from a same company out of a different plant or factory at or by on the way to work, on the way to work and home. I travel three hours a day. So I usually meet someone, and I had around 30, 40 business cards of people that collected just by doing that. Wow. I used to speak to them. Yeah, you were connecting. Yeah, same company, same values. It's really exciting. At first it was hard because you never know what their impressions are going to be. But when you sit with them and you just say hi, it's just the same emotion that I would have if someone came to me and spoke to me about. It's uh people are there to connect. It's just that we are crowding ourselves with our own thoughts, thinking, okay, what would this person think about me? Um, would it be right? It's public transport, all of that. But honestly, having someone to talk to while going back home is an exciting thing to do. Plus, it takes the time out of the way. I think it's faster. Yeah. It is. Uh, I meet a lot of people. I meet engineers there, I I've met um fashion designers, it's a lot, and I understand their roles and the work that they do in the company. Wow. It's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

So you're like getting a lot of knowledge about different departments. Different departments.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

And it's exciting. It's it's not uh again, it's not something that I planned for.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Right. Totally random. It's happening organically.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

But it does work out. Uh so these skills have always been accumulated over time. And then I mean marketing right now, so people element is there, the product element is there, um, the distribution element is also there. Yeah. So I was able to identify and probably I think that helped me do marketing better. I'm still learning. I'm learning I'm learning a lot from people around me, I'm learning from the leaders out there, but learning on my own as well. It's always learning curve. The thing that I that we all vouch for, it's learn, uh, unlearn and relearn. Something that we might think that we know about can be wrong. That we should be open to actually unlearn us, unlearn and relearn. Yes. That's something that you should stick to, and that's something that actually would help us grow. Because if our intention is to grow, if our intention is to be egoistic and say, okay, I'm right, this is what I do, this is what we should be all doing. Yeah, that's a problem.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Right. You're done learning. You're done learning.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

We can never learn. So um this has always helped us throughout time. And I don't want to stick myself to a title of just a marketer over time too. Because we all have marketing skills. Yes. I feel like we all have certain skills. Certain skills might uh show up better than others, and we try to put a title to it, which is cool, which is totally fine. But in the meantime, it it's also about it's about helping operation understand whatever work this person might be able to do, and that's why the title comes into play. But that doesn't mean that I have to always be a marketer. It's not your identity as a job title. It's just my Amar is my identity. Right. The top title for job title right now is a marketer. Correct. Five is good as PR uh executive or PR significant executive. Right. So it's changed over time. The titles do change, but as a personality, I've just grown into who I am today. And in the future, it may I may be something completely different. We never know. Maybe next time when we meet, we might be in two different places. Right. So we never know. But this is why I wanted to always build on this element of skill development because I don't see it as one career focused skill or role. But another thing I believe in is uh career portfolio a career path. Sometimes people might it's actually a bit uh controversial for some. Honestly, it's I respect that. But uh at least from my journey, what I've seen is that if I had stuck to one career path, I would have stayed there. But I've got a lot of skills from different careers, and I put our own career portfolio of myself, and that is who I am today. And that's I might be a growth marketer for the company I'm part of right now, but I'm a different consultant for a different company. I'm also having my own company called Cocoon, which is a skill development company, and I'm a different personality there. And all these skills have accumulated over time as a portfolio, not as just one part.

unknown 12:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

And that's something I strongly believe in. Um, and I I would love to explore that idea as we grow as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

I I 100% agree. I think like especially for me growing up in Sri Lanka, and even like the older generation, it was all about you stick to the career for 30 years, right? And then you leave it, and there's they give you a plaque, and that's all they got, right? And and they speak, I mean, uh no disrespect, but that's all they have to talk about after you know the end of their work career. And notion of a career portfolio as as collecting skills, I think is much more exciting because I think also you get a lot of opportunities to do some cool stuff and opportunities, right? And you keep your curiosity alive.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Yeah. So the idea of a growth marketer did not exist 10 years ago, I think. You're right. Have you ever heard of the word growth marketer before? No, no. So it's so these roles do come up, but they're roles to try to uh basket certain skills together. Right. So the role of a growth market again is to see how we can grow a company that might be different things for different companies. Right. So that's our job. For those different job roles, our skill sets might differ. If it's a content-driven agency, I might need to have a lot of content skills. Right. If it's a sales human agency, I might have to have sales skills. So it's very um I would say it's not, it's not, can't can't feel it's not static but dynamic, and that's what we should be as well. And we all have a lot of skills, skills that we uh take ownership of and ownership for, and skills that we don't take ownership for that are hidden on the sidelines, but we are really good at and we might be good at if you really sharpen them. Sometimes they might have skills that we don't even know exist. The more we experiment, the more we volunteer to different causes, the more side of the more things that we try doing, we might actually explore those skills that are kind of hidden with us, within us, which we might not even know. Did you know that you were good at uh what you are doing right now? Oh 10 years ago. How did it come by?

SPEAKER_02 14:26

It was actually uh my friend Ben and I, we did a fake podcast after uh doing actually the three of us. My friend is a musician, he was coming out with his album and he wanted to do a jam session and record it. He's a videographer, and so was the other one. And I said, why don't we do a podcast where we talk about what we are into at the end? And that really I found that I was able to kind of um guide the conversation, it was really fun. And next thing you know, we started together, and I realized that I always wanted to start a podcast, but because of my own limiting beliefs of how I spoke and whether people could understand me, and especially living in the US, like that was a challenge that I had to overcome. So, yeah, if it wasn't for that community, right, I would not be doing what I'm doing. So, yeah, 100% agree with what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

That's cool. Sometimes we are we try to we understand ourselves. Sometimes if you are blessed enough, you might have another person pointing it out. Um, or sometimes we might never never we might never find out, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

So I want to ask that question. So you I heard you travel three hours a day in public transportation. So you're coming from from Marvinella to Hatch. How do you find Hatch? And because I'm guessing the community aspect was a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Yeah, Hatch um I've known Hatch for the last five years, five, six years. It was so hatch has always been this place of vibrance. From what I see, it's a place where people come together. People have great ideas, come together and do great things. When I got to know of Hatch in the beginning, I came across it on social media first. They used to have these amazing uh workshops before. Um so I came across this in the beginning, uh was pretty interesting. Um unfortunately I did not travel then, not as much. So um I didn't never come then. You know, I would have I wish I would have, but uh my it would have been different now. But the energy that Hatch has was different. It's always been this different energy that you don't find anywhere else, like outside outside this community. So people here um are always willing to help another, they're willing to support another. They might be competitors, but still there's a lot of synergy between us. And that's what I see here. Even right now, how this opportunity popped up for us, and there are a lot of opportunities out there. Everyone who comes here leaves it something. Uh it can be uh an a probably a client or um a new project or at least an a friendship that is going to be worthwhile, another thing, at least an experience. They come here, they understand how things are, how the business world world of business works, how startups works. I wasn't I'm a corporate guy, I've been in corporate for the last two six years. Startup was something pretty new to me and pretty exciting for me as well. Even though I have my own startups, working within a startup base is different because the passion, uh the emotion around is totally different. It's not just sort of time or value only, it's something that everyone's so invested in because they have to make it successful. Uh their whole idea and vision relies on that. Um, so they give it all in. And you always think creative about it. Again, your podcast being that because it's not always a set path to something. Right. I have a sale to make in the next month. Um the set path will be maybe to go found at least in this set of manner. This is how you convert them, all that. But when you are pushed to a wall and you have to do it, you think of creative ways of doing it. So start as a startup, the biggest problems we might have is a lack of resources. Um it can be cash, it can be talent, it can be even physical resources from computers and chairs to everything else. But here, you have you can find it in one way or another. Um that's supporting each other, and even if you come here, you can find a freelancer just by another uh expert who can work as a freelancer for you just by reaching out. And there are people here who are mentors who are working with other people. So they have a lot of mentees, a lot of people supporting each other, and that form of community is important because as soon as you as Sri Lanka and Brown families, as soon as we try to form a business, the first question would be can you do it? Uh why don't you go for a corporate job? It's kind of safer. So breaking out of that whole um motion uh is not easy. But we have people who have done that here and people who are willing to help you do that here and find your own um special skills and put that to use. So it's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

I mean, I have to say, like, I have no business being here. I'm a creative guy and I do run businesses, but it it's really cool that like I've only just come here and like use my computer and work in the members' lounge or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

We're so excited to share with you all the episodes that we filmed in Sri Lanka. We know a lot of you have been waiting, but we wanted to make sure that we did this really meaningfully because it really was an exciting time. When Sean first came to me and said he was gonna take the podcast to Sri Lanka, I honestly thought he was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

And so did I. I was like, is there any possibility we can get this in? I want to try to bring the podcast and get to know people and interview video.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

So we expected to have just a few conversations, maybe a little sparks of inspiration here and there, but what happened was so much deeper than that. We met so many people that not only you got to interview, but that also like came alongside us to help make these conversations happen.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

The crazy thing was this daring idea of going to a country, even to one country like that. I hadn't been back for like still, and all I knew was some people from school that I went to and some social media that I'm following, but didn't really have a concrete planned to make it happen. And some days we had six, seven episodes back-to-back recorded because people waiting and you were kind of idea.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah, so it felt really significant because not only was it that we were having like these raw and authentic conversations, but a lot of their stories resonated with drawn. And so it just was really fascinating to see them speaking the same language and to see like just this commonality of creativity and identity coming out as the themes of these conversations.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

You must be wondering when this could happen. It happened in September. And uh the goal was to get these episodes out by September. Well, a lot of things happen, and I didn't want to diminish the work we put in and amazing videos that we've had. So we decided to do something really cool, and we'd like to how many we can a week.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

So linked in every single episode, you'll find a free PDF. It's actually a magazine that we developed. And kind of think of it like if you go to a concert and you get like the souvenir of what happens behind the scenes and just about the different artists and all those things. We wanted to share with you not only about Tron's journey, but then help you connect with some of the guests that we interview in Sri Lanka, and then invite you on your own creative eye.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yes, there's so much more that goes into all that feels podcast, which is this this mission to inspire people to create so that they can interrupt themselves and connect with data in each other. So to see that we could bring that story out of Sri Lanka creatives out. I I was raised of creatives that was definitely a highlight.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Our hope is that whether you're living in the States, you're living in Sri Lanka, or somewhere else around the world, you'll connect with someone's story within Sri Lanka and it might inspire you to continue on your own creative codes.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

The link to the PDF for the magazine is in the description. And please check it out. They're doing really cool things that I really think you should be checked out to see their journeys. So without further ado, let's get to the episode. But just by being here, I have been researching startups and like, you know, things like that, and I'm just like looking at up. Of how I can use startups and a product to actually help my audience and things like that. So you're absolutely 100% right. I was even like thinking last night, like, oh, what can I do? How can I support my audience and how can I actually help support people? And so like I've been thinking, and I've been like talking to ChatGPT and like late to the night, like trying to like brainstorm my whole mindset shift happens. Exactly, exactly. 100% agree. Wow. What kind of challenges have you uh faced so far? And what you have what have you learned from them, especially in this new startup journey of yours?

SPEAKER_01 22:32

The bigger biggest talent uh challenge is talent. Talent is so hard to find. Um, the right talent. You have enough talent out there. But the thing is, when it comes to talent too, the best place that we would go to would be LinkedIn to find people. But that's just like a digital resume of sorts. Right, right. They always try to show off what they do and who they can be. Right. But they can always be different person. Uh when you work with people, personality and values matter to me as well. I work with people who have values. Every company I've moved to is a company that has good values. If not, uh, I'll be obviously leaving. I can't work with a company that doesn't have proper values. Um, it needs to have values because the founder has to have good values. The people in the team, they have to have, they have to be human first. It's not just profits are important and the company is obviously used on profits, but you always have to be careful, caring about yourself, your family, the people around you, the community, and everything at large, by life, you know, it's a whole uh gamut of things. But if it's just me, myself, and just uh my work, that's a problem for me personally. I don't technically like to work with people of that personality unless they have the personality hidden. People have people want to give back to the community. I've seen this. They want to give back, but they are just hiding it uh on a different frame. They have not been exposed to that side of things, or else they've not got the right opportunity. One thing that we see a lot of those founders get is come sponsors. That's the only thing they get, but they can support them in other ways. These people can always have a lot of mentorship, they have a lot of skills, they've been in the business. Some of the insights are so impactful. Um, I think it's how you use them as well. So there can be people who are hiding that uh values they have behind certain masks for some reason. And but then I love to work with them because I see human uh elements in them. But that's something I looked forward to. And right now, the biggest issue that I've been looking having is finding good talent. Um, it's we have enough people, enough great people out there. But getting them onto my team, then that means they have to leave what they're doing out there and forget. Right. Which is a tough thing. I don't want them to do it unless it's fruitful for them too. Right, right. Um, they should be paid well, take uh I mean taken care of well. As a startup, we can't do all of those things at once. But we need good talent too. So one thing I've resorted to right now is working with freelancers. They do their own thing, they have their own jobs that they go to, they might be doing great stuff out there. But we work as a freelancer on a project base, starting off, or as a freelance project one by one. That means I have the flexibility of cash flows and they also have the flexibility of working with me, plus also doing their own. As long as I don't work with comp, I don't for the sake of values again, I don't work with competitive brands. If I do one thing, I don't work with another person who's doing the same thing, because then it's a control interest for him. Absolutely. Absolutely. For respect in that, I don't do that. I tell them, Frank, but if it's from different industries, I hold hands and work together. That's one way we can go ahead, uh, making sure that we can make use of the resources uh fruitfully. That's very powerful.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

You kind of mentioned this about how creativity shows up in your work. Is there anything else you'd like to kind of go in deep in that?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, um, one thing that I've the message that I would have technically would be to upskill, reskill, and reinvent oneself. Um, we've been brought up in one way. That can be for probably from a family, school, a community. That would technically give us a small background and that would define who we are right now. But that doesn't mean we have to stay there. Uh, because we might have a lot of skills, again, as we already spoke of, hidden out there, which can come out. Creativity is in everything and everywhere. Um, it's just that we think uh it's about doing art or it's about being creation or just about even coding is creativity. For example, uh, even though it we coding doesn't unfortunately come to our minds when you think of creative, but it is actually creativity. One thing said Daran, when you generate an image out of mid journey, the back end is obviously code, that's a different story. But going to the other end of things also, what developers do, they solve problems. And unless you have the creative mind to think of the problem differently, you can't solve a problem. Um, and they are creative in their own way. Uh, it's just not in a form of the uh creativity that we expect it to be. It is still a form of art, right? The software that they created is form of art. Right. Uh unfortunately, it's not the same art that we think of artist because the way the words art, film, music, and things are branded as creativity. Yeah. And that form of creativity is branded within and instilled within our minds. Exactly. If you really think about it, everyone here is creative. If it's a farmer, the way that they would have the choice of crops they choose is being created, they are being creative. The choice of structure that they have in their farms, they're being creative. Um, and there might be, again, people out there who might be doing cool stuff with their farms too. But I'm being honest, it's everyone is creative out there. Absolutely. It's just that they have the creative element within them. It's just about how they frame it and how they bring it out.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

So I'm on this path to kind of change the narrative of how people see creative, right? Like, and you know, I'm on the end of like I was a musician, creative person growing up, right? And like, so I was branded a creative. I love that word, branded for this context. And uh so my goal is to change to say that like everybody's creative, just like you're saying. Now, if you look at a coder and engineer and all these people, do you think that there is value in us um also branding them as creatives? Um, do you think that actually helps uh people who are not considered creative?

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Over time, I think um we've always been great communicators. Communication has changed from form to form over time, from the cave paintings we see to um literal icons to texts to fonts we have today. Um and these forms are what we think physical forms are what has been instilled as creativity for us. But right now we're moving into a different era, digital era, uh where it's mostly tech. And for example, if you see the car being manufactured, engineers come up with good cars, again, design product designers, innovators, and engineers come to get the car with a good car. Isn't the car creative?

SPEAKER_02 28:30

It is, no, no, that is it.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

And is the software they come up with, the UI part is obviously creative. Right. We call it creative, they call them creators as well. Right. But even the back end of it, yeah. If you think about it, it's actually, for example, if it's if they have to write thousand word lines of code for something, but if a person can be creative enough, write it in ten lines of code. That's actually of them being creative in a different way. Not in the creative form that we know of, but in their own way. And they are doing it in their own things. But I would say the way the branding creative is amazing in terms of film, art, it's music, it's still that's they are creatives. I'm not saying they're not, yeah. But also, there can be developers who are creative who have these creative skills. We'll go to the word skills then art skills, music skills. Because these guys have these skills. There can be these people who have these skills, there are amazing people who have these skills. Right. They can be good speakers who have these skills. And so that if I'm a comedian, am I a creative guy or not? I think you are. So we have so many people who are doing all this stuff. So they have the skill sets. So that's why I would not want to frame anyone under one title. I would still stick with the idea of skill sets. Right? Like, for example, if you are a handyman, you have a tool stacked with you. Yeah. You have a hammer, you have a uh screwdriver, queue machine, uh, screw whatever, uh tells us everyone need for a job. Yeah. And you use each of these tools for a different purpose. You don't use a hammer to uh remove uh to screw something in. You have a different uh skill, uh tools tool for that. Just like that. Our skills, you might have certain artistic skills as well, technical skills as well. We might play around with it based on the requirement that we have in place. Correct. And it's a mix of all this that comes together to make the creative person who they are. A creative uh artist, for example, they might be amazing, they might be able to imagine amazing things. Right. But if they can't use the hand, the truth, the uh the brush properly and put that imagination into a piece of paper or into a piece of board, do you think the reflection or the creativity is being reflected properly yet? So the form of actually using that uh brush is actually a technical skill.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

So this the tool sets do change, but the skill sets is what defines you. Right. And uh, for example, right now we have AR VR. So they they draw with that. Uh it's a mod, I would call it a modern proof brush. Exactly. Uh paintbrush. Yeah. Uh that obviously is a form of art.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

And it's just changing over time. Right. Um, it's and it's evolving over time. So I would say the tools that you use might change, uh, the form might change, but creativity has always been the let's say hundreds of years ago, sculptures were creative. Yeah. Right now, two sculptures are creative, but we don't see it as much anymore. We see amazing art in galleries and stuff in different forms. And it's about all but what comes down to creativity also, I feel is about communication. It has a message to share. Yeah. A strong message. Um, the lyrics it has a different message, the music, it tones they have a different message, the instruments you have use, depending on the instruments you use, the tonality, the pressure, it changes. Same thing with art, the colors you use to the frames, to the strokes, it changes. The form of art you have, it changes. And the movies, I think, have some cool you'd you'd done podcasts from the if you change the lighting, the moody lighting of this, the whole story changes. Exactly. Or you can make it a scary movie if you just change the color something else. So it's about uh that, and that is, I feel that is creativity for me. Uh the output, obviously, yes, but it's also about what is within them. That is still to be put out through different means and source and different tool sets also. But uh, I can't be wrong. I'm totally open to be connected. No, I think I must be open about it.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

I mean, I'm here to ask your opinion. I think the cool thing is um the reason I wanted to brand even people here as creatives is because at least people on the other side, the artist side like me, I didn't see that. I didn't see that what you guys are doing as creatives until for much later. I didn't see that engineer what they do is essentially creative. They're using this, the laws and principles of physics and all that kinds of stuff, but at the end of the day, you're still solving problems and um it's a whole nother side of creativity. Um, and that's kind of why I was like, no, I think there's something here, there's something really exactly, right? Like I think, because I was talking to a young coder yesterday who works here, and you know, she was mentioning like sometimes at three in the morning I'm frustrated because I'm writing code and I can't figure out something. But the drive there is to say, I figured it out somehow through my creativity, and that I think is super powerful for me because as a creative, like we have our own uh challenges of expressing and things like that. And like artists, I look at like takes hours to paint something, right? And and the artist artistic block or the writer's block, you stay there, exactly, and then yeah, you can figure something out, exactly. And I think that's I think is the unifier for me. Yeah, I think that to understand that everyone is creative, everyone is creative one way or form or the other. Yeah, and if you change that, I think people also are more open to trying different things. Yes, I think exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Some people express it through music, others through art, some through fashion that they clothes that they would wear, others could code. It's just a form, it's just the means that has changed. Exactly. Creativity, as you say, yeah, has always been there.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Absolutely. And then your story of like wanting to be a journalist, so die-hard journalist to marketing, to now this and running your own uh school and all of these things, like that's a form of creativity for me.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

It has influenced a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

It's always been the same things that we did speak about. It's about carrier portfolio, uh, the skills portfolio and the skill sets that we acquire over time. Uh from the time that you were born up until how you even in the way the parents brought you up, you would have acquired a lot of skills unconsciously from problem solving to how do you make friends with a four-year-old? You said put them into playground. They make friends much faster than how adults do. Yes. Uh we put them play, they do. And it's a skill set that they've acquired, but for some reason, it's a died out over time. Is it because they've been crowded by their own judgment, or they're just not who they used to be anymore? Is this skill is the skill wave up? Do we think we have to be training those skills to be always be on par? A salesperson always will be making sales copies. If they stop it for 10 years, they might lose out on the whole idea of it and they might have to rework on it. So the whole idea of creativity is we have this creative brain of ours. How much do we use it? And what do we use it for? And sometimes for us, even just going out to the beach or going to the mountains, I have the mountains, I'm a bit mountain brand. Going out there, going on a hike is what we needed, uh, what we so dirty needed, but we thought we didn't need. Just taking that one day off, going out there, having a swim, that helps. But again, the big question that we have to have is when you do swimming or when you have a bath, what do you think of? I think of um cool ideas when I have baths. Same, yeah. For musicians, it's when it's when we have the cool ideas. There are good lyrics that come out or ideas. So it's a I I'm not a specialist in this matter to talk about it, but uh I still feel like it's always there. Yeah, it's just waiting to come out. But we are framing ourselves. So, okay, I'm a marketer. Just think of marketing only. And this is what we should think of. Are we just framing ourselves? No, no. But when we are in a free space on our own, that's when these things, these cool ideas come to our minds. Exactly. Um, when you let it flow.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

I love that you mentioned that you go out to nature. One thing, you know, the crazy thing I really like growing up in Sri Lanka, I forgot that I am from an island nation because all I did was go to school, go to tuition classes, come home, do the same thing, and like yeah, because the goal was to the studies and extracurricular activities and studies again and trying to like get to the point of a doctor, lawyer, whatever those things were. And and we never got a chance to really enjoy the nature that we have so beautiful in this country, especially. Um, it took me like much later. I was like, wait a second, I'm an island boy. Like, I didn't even barely do anything. So I it's so cool to see that a lot of Sri Lankans now are connecting with nature. Like that's super powerful. I think a lot of people are get healthy mentally as well when you connect with nature. Finally, um Amar, um, what do you have to say to people, especially right now watching, who might have that inclination, like, wait a second, this guy is talking something I want to do, or like the passion is like, you know, the curiosity is what do you want to say to them and as an advice or something?

SPEAKER_01 36:49

It's about upskilling, reskilling, and reinventing yourself. Um, there are enough tools out there, there are free content out there, it's free content on LinkedIn, on YouTube, it's everywhere. This podcast has enough insights. Um, there are also paid platforms that are training schools. If you want to have guided training, there are different ways of doing it. So that's why I build my own thing because I feel like to help people with some guided things, but I bring short courses. I don't believe in big long degrees. It's what skills, certain skills that we learn. Um the same things can be at least in a varied option, can be offered free as well in different forms. Keep learning, always be open to unlearning because things that we think we know right now can always change over time, uh, and always be open to relearning. And one skill that I've picked up over time anyone can teach you anything if you're open to looking uh into it. Be open, it can be a small child, they can teach you good manners, they can teach you humanity. Come to a workspace studies, you'll learn a lot of important tech skill, important technical skills and soft skills. It's technically any role that you go into. 40% uh would be personal skills and soft skills, uh, 20% would be technical skills, and uh another 30-20% would be communication skills. The small portion of 30-40% of critical skills is something you can learn. But the rest of 60% of the soft skills and competition skills is something you should always keep on. And uh another 30-20% would be communication skills. Uh for the the small portion of 30-40% of critical skills, something can learn. But you can but the rest of 60% of the soft skills and cognitive skills is something you should always keep on to and learn and grow with and keep strong to because in if you have that, any role you go to, any company you go to, anything that you do, even for yourself, uh you can make it happen. So that's the idea that I have to share. It's a long longer sentence, probably a paragraph or two.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

I don't care, but uh I'll be that was cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Thanks, but um, that's what I would share. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Um definitely inspired. Uh I I'm I'm super uh inspired by your story and and and what you stand for. And uh you said uh learn, unlearn, and relearn. That is that is powerful. Um so yeah, I'm gonna put uh Amar's uh information on social media so you can get a hold of him. If you feel that like kind of tug and inspiration, you'll be like, I like what he said, I want to do something that uh please reach out to him. Um, and all I can say is keep dreaming, keep creating, and keep going on your own creative Odyssey. Till next time. See you later.