The Leadership Crisis Nobody Is Talking About: Are We Training Leaders or Creating Followers?

Many organisations say they want leaders but reward compliance and punish initiative until nobody on the team will make a move without permission. 

In this episode, I explain how the fireground practice of putting new firefighters into leadership roles in safe, controlled training environments reveals what it actually takes to develop people who can think, adapt and act when conditions change. 

You'll learn why compliance culture quietly kills decision-making, how to spot if your team has become approval-dependent and what to start doing to rebuild confident leaders who can step up when you're not in the room.

Transcript

0:26

Welcome to Leadership in the Line of Fire with your host, Brad Hauck. Join Brad as he dives into the heat of leadership challenges, where the flames of business uncertainty meet the hard earned lessons of firefighting. Embrace change, master agility and become the trusted leader guiding your team through the smoke. Get ready to ignite your leadership journey. Many organisations say they want leaders, but too often they reward compliance and they punish initiative. And this has always fascinated me as a leader. What happens when people become afraid to make decisions, when every action needs approval and when risk management becomes more important than leadership? On the fire ground, you can't wait for permission when conditions change, sometimes you just need to move. Today I'm looking at whether we're developing leaders or simply creating followers at the fire station. We often put new people into leadership roles during training to give them the chance to lead. We might have an exercise where they act as the crew leader, but it is in particularly safe conditions. There's no chance of them hurting anyone and no chance of anything going wrong realistically, because we have a senior with them who looks after them and just makes sure that they're making the right decision. But we let them make the call and then we correct them where we need to. And this gives people the opportunity to actually start to lead when there's not any situation where they could get hurt. Now, it's obviously different when we move onto a fire ground. So you might have someone at a burn where we're in a controlled environment with a pile and five trucks around it. Someone might step up who has been a firefighter for a while and has some good fireground experience. They might step up into the role of crew leader for that day. Now, that's fine because it's such a controlled environment, the officer in charge can see everybody, all those sorts of elements are in play. We wouldn't necessarily let that same person step up on an active fire. So if we went to a wildfire, that person may not be ready. We would use an experienced crew leader because the situation changes. So we give people a chance to lead from very early on. And the reason we do that is because when you're working with volunteers, you don't know the level of leadership skills that they actually bring from outside. And the same applies in your business. You honestly don't know the people who are new to your organisation, even though you've read their resumes. Just because their resume looks good and smells good doesn't mean they're going to be a great leader. In fact, it's no indication at all. A Resume is just a piece of paper. What really matters is how they interact with people, how they do their job, all those different elements before you make those decisions. As far as I'm concerned, a resume gets people in the door and gives them a chance. Now, hopefully, if the resume is truthful and you've had a look at it, you've got a fair idea and you've checked the references that this person is actually capable. So why not give people a chance to lead in an environment that allows them to actually show you what they're capable of? And you can expand on that, of course. Now many leaders say that they. Now many organisations say that they want leaders, but do their actions actually match their words? I know that it's not the same at every station. At our station, we do want to push people forward as leaders, we do want to see what people are capable of within reason. So the opportunity's always been there for the 20 something years that I've been a member for people to step up into leadership roles. Now, not all roles are available and there is training you need to complete to move up, but when you get into the workplace, that's not always the case. Sometimes I know when I worked a job for a corporate company that you're waiting for someone to die for someone to be able to move up. As horrible as that sounds, it's truthful. Even if they're the worst leader in the world, you can't get rid of them. So why then do we say that we're always looking for leaders and we want you to lead the company and do all those sorts of things? It's definitely one of those interesting questions because in the end, in many cases organisations just want someone who will follow, who will do what they're told. I'm not looking for that, I'm looking for leaders so that I can give them roles in every level within my business. So why do we feel uncomfortable when people show initiative or challenge the way things have always been done? This is always a good question. I know myself when someone says something that is different to how I see the situation. I've often got to stop, take a breath and just let it sit for a minute. Because my natural reaction is going to be my way's the right way. That's human, we all do that. But that's not the truth. If we want someone to be a leader, we have to let them do it their way, within reason. So there may be procedures that they need to follow, but outside of that, they can make their own decisions about things. And we often feel like we're being questioned when someone puts a different point of view forward. And it's been one of the hardest things I've ever had to learn as a leader. Working with a team, especially a leadership team, is to hand over control to other people, but also accept that they have different points of view. And as a team, letting them vote on those points of view and then trying new ways of doing things, that's not easy to do. It is not something that most leaders like, but it is absolutely worthwhile. And it's an extremely powerful way to grow your team, your station, whoever you're working with. You don't have to make all the decisions to be a leader. You have to make the final decision. And so I say to you that you should be really looking at what other people are saying to you, get that feedback, ask their opinion and really think about it. Because some decisions are critical, they're dangerous, you've got to make them. And they could cost you a lot of money, a lot of time, or can put you in a bad position, but other decisions are not like that at all. There may be five ways of doing something and the way that we've been doing it is good, but it could be better if we try this way. But we won't know until we actually try it. So it's very important that you let those people put their leadership decisions forward and you work with it. And yes, you're going to be uncomfortable. Absolutely. That's natural, that's human. Don't worry about it. Breathe, take a beat and stand there for a minute and then go with it. Sometimes it's really worthwhile. And in the end, you've got to remember that you're not going to be around forever. So as a leader, you need these people one day to step up and replace you. So if you're not letting them make some good decisions and not encouraging them to think properly, all you're doing is actually destroying the future of your organisation. Another thing that I've seen lately is that compliance systems, policies and procedures have become so dominant that they're basically destroying the way that we run organisations. We're training people to follow instructions instead of thinking for themselves. Now, I don't know whether you agree with me on that, but that's how I feel about it. I've seen organisations such as the teaching profession has become so much more about paperwork and recording things, when, in fact, quite frankly, no one ever reads those reports. They go into a pile and they're basically useless. So much of the information collected is of no use to the future teachers or to anybody in the system. And yet the staff are there wasting their time doing all this extra paperwork. The quality of teaching hasn't changed, the amount of paperwork has. So that tells me something. It's the same in every organisation. You'll have seen this influx of recording of compliance. Yes, I understand that compliance is important for safety and other aspects, but having to tick a box on a sheet and put that in a folder, that's not necessarily important. It really affects our ability to train leaders if they can't think for themselves. So if they're sitting there and they're being forced to follow hundreds and hundreds of procedures, you're going to destroy your leaders. Number one, most leaders are free thinkers. That means they're not necessarily cross the T's and dot the I people. If you go into the disc profiles, they don't fall into that category. They are good with people, they are good at thinking about the future, they're good at making teams. But that's why many people in high positions have personal assistance, because they are the people that are experts in keeping all that paperwork ticked. But you can't throw that on everybody. So having too many policies and procedures actually slows your organisation down? Yeah, it keeps the legal team happy, that's for sure. But that's just keeping them in a job and they are making work for everybody else. And this has been an influx I've seen for years. It's the reason why so many large organisations get to a certain size and then they start to bog down and can't grow anymore because they're so caught up in their own paperwork. Nobody's actually going out and working on the business. There's no leaders anymore. Everybody is just managing. So just beware. Compliance, safety policies and procedures are important, but if you want your leaders to be able to lead properly, you need to be able to give them the room to do it. What happens when your team becomes so dependent on approvals that nobody wants to make a decision without permission from someone higher up? It's such a good question. I've seen this many times where people are scared to move. It's not a good way to be. I've been there myself, scared to make a decision, because I know every decision I make is going to be questioned at so many levels. Instead of saying, well, you're the person on the ground, make the call. Approvals are important. Too many approvals are not. Sometimes it's all about explaining things properly. I'll give you an example back in 20, we had a lot of fires here in Australia. And suddenly one of the ways that we used to control fire, which is back burning, where we light a fire to burn out the fuel in front of the fire, was pretty well cut off. Every time you would ask permission to back burn, you would get no response. And it took away one of our most powerful tools. Now, there was reasons why they stopped giving permission easily, and I totally understand, and that is that some people were just randomly loading back burns without considering all of the conditions, the weather, what could happen if it escapes, was there control lines in place, all those sorts of things. But that wasn't explained to anybody on the fire ground. And so the situation happened where we had a fire coming up on us, it was going to jump straight over the top of us if we didn't get a back burn in. We asked permission and all we got was radio silence. One minute we had lots of conversation, next we had nothing. Now, there could have been a complete breakdown in communication, which was totally possible at the time given the radios and where we were. But it was interpreted by the troops on the ground that we had been deliberately ignored. So be aware that when things need so many levels of approval that it can totally change how people perceive things, but also it will stymie the way that the operation works, how your business grows and how it deals with problems. Because every time it takes approval, it takes time. So if you put in paperwork for something to be approved and then it's got to be approved by the person above that, and then the person above that approves it. By the time you get around to it, too much time's passed. And it can actually be the downfall of many different projects because of the time frames involved. You can't have people afraid of making mistakes because they always have to seek approval. Okay? When people get to the point where nobody can make a decision without someone higher up, your organisation will stop moving, it will stop growing, people will stop taking initiative, it will just plateau and it will die. The effect of things like continual levels of approval can be long reaching. I know that the situation on the fire ground happened years ago. It still hangs around today as this thing that we cannot do anything because we won't get permission to light a back burn. And that is not true. We have been told that you can light a back burn, but you need to have a burn plan in place, you need to have all of the options in place and you need to present those to get permission. But most people, you're not allowed to put fire on the ground. So the effects of those multiple levels of approval without talking to people still hang around seven years later. Has risk management shifted from managing risk to avoiding it altogether, creating cultures where people are more afraid of making mistakes than taking action? I would say that the answer is yes. As a leader, risk management is a huge part of what I do. I have to make decisions based on risk. And I can tell you now, there's some decisions that I refuse to make because the risk is too high. Thanks to things that have happened in the past and the way the blame was distributed within the organisation, I know that in many businesses this is the case. People do something, they get whacked over the knuckles with a ruler and they will never, ever make a decision again without getting someone else's approval. So they cover their back. Risk management is important. Over. Risk management is stifling. It just literally will shut you down. You will not make changes to what's going on without you actually getting someone else's permission. So, finally, if you've spent years creating followers in your organisation, how do you rebuild confident decision makers who are willing to step up, think critically and act when it matters most? I think it comes back to the basics again. Giving people chance to lead, giving people a chance to take control, giving them that chance to show what they're made of and supporting them in that. It's really important we go right back to the beginning, where I started, whereby we help people become leaders. We can't be around forever in any business or any organisation. We must move on at some stage. Whether that's move on permanently or move on to somewhere else, you need to make sure there's someone to replace you. As I've said in a previous episode, when I became the officer in charge of the station, I was asked in the first week by a previous officer in charge, who's going to replace you? Which was quite a jarring question at the time. But it is important. You must be on the lookout for who's going to replace you. You don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, you don't know if you're going to get hit by a bus. So at all stages, you should be driving your leaders forward, you should be supporting them, you should be bringing them into your leadership team. You should be going down and working with them. The opportunity to help people lead is one of the most powerful things that a leader can give their team. And I totally encourage you to go and do that. It's one of the most rewarding things as a leader is to see someone come from where they are, up to the point where they can happily lead teams and their teams will follow them. It is so rewarding to see that, and it means that you're doing your job as a leader in the best possible way. In the end, leadership is not about creating people who follow instructions. It's about creating people who can think, adapt and act when circumstances change. On the fire ground, we don't have the luxury of waiting for permission every time conditions change. We need people to understand the mission, to use their judgement and to make good, safe decisions when it matters most. So here's the question I'll leave you with Are you building a team of leaders or a team of followers? Because one day you won't be there and what happens next will tell you everything you need to know about your leadership. If today's episode hit home, take 60 seconds to share it with a friend you trust and like. These conversations matter. And if you haven't already, subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. If you want to go deeper into fireground leadership, please grab a copy of my book Run towards The flames from Amazon.com, packed with storeys and strategies of dealing with change from 20 years of fighting fires in the Australian bush and leading a successful marketing business. Please like share and subscribe. And until next time, stay sharp, stay safe and keep running towards the flames. Thank you for tuning in to Leadership in the Line of Fire. If today's episode sparked some insights, please share it with your friends and colleagues. Don't forget to hit like and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Your support fuels this journey. Join us next time as we continue to explore leadership lessons from the fire line. Until then, keep leading with courage and agility.