Episode 6 - The Power of Starting New with Nancy Newell

In this episode I spoke with Nancy Newell, Head of Strategic Alliances & Marketing Experiences for the Public Sector at Adobe. Our conversation explores how writing and storytelling have helped her process life changes and her legacy. There's a strong focus on the importance of evolving rather than staying stuck in old ways of doing things, whether in business or personal life. We connect over shared experiences in embracing change the and finding time for personal growth.

Thank you for listening! If you liked this episode, please give us a 5-star rating.
Listen to every episode on:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify
• Amazon Music 

Stay in touch with us:

• Ohhicommunications.com
• Linkedin
• Instagram
• YouTube

About Dana
Dana Berchman is an award-winning expert in marketing and communications with a gift for leading teams, connecting people, and telling the human story.  An experienced innovator, public speaker and media professional, Dana is a proven expert at developing communication strategies, maximizing reach, creating digital roadmaps for cities and organizations, and delivering data-driven results with heart.  

Transcript

Oh, Nancy, one of my very favorite people. I get to have this conversation with you. I'm so, so excited. Thank you for joining Me 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Congrats on your, your new opportunities and stuff that you're working on here. I love this. I love the podcast. It's been great to listen to.

Thank you. Okay. So tell me about you. Tell me a little bit about your story. You know, I'm so focused on storytelling, which we'll get into as far as our work goes, but you as a person, um, tell me a little bit about yourself and how you got here to, 

where you are today and how we got here together to have this conversation. 

I mean, I actually think that's the real story. The fact that you and I met in a, a dinner in Ojai Valley one night. And what was so crazy is we kind of got, we were connected, but really didn't realize how connected we were until we got on LinkedIn and gotten social channels. And you're like, wait, do you know so and mean, it's, it's amazing to me how large the world is, but how small it really is in our connections and relationships and stuff like that.

And here we are a couple of years later, you know, still connecting. And, you know, I didn't recognize that night. You know, the significance of who was at that table and just the different dynamics and how we just replaced together.

And there's actually another person that was at that table. I stayed connected to as well. So it's just it's a fun thing to me that you meet people out wherever you are and you never know what's going to go and the relationships you build and how you know, that that takes you on a journey in life.

Right? 

Yeah, but it's not often you meet people who are working in the public sector in government innovation. And I, Neither. of us knew at that table that I wouldn't have brought it up and said like, anybody else here working, you know, this space and work? So like you said, it was LinkedIn afterwards, which is actually something really cool that I never really had thought about, but people talk about using LinkedIn all the time.

But it was one of those examples of life where. You really have to take the time to connect. It used to be, you just, you know,

shared business cards and you don't do that anymore. And so you go on LinkedIn and then it was, look at all these things we had in common. And so it grew from there, which is what brings you here to me today. 

right. I know. And then we had experiences together and you know, we were talking earlier, like our experiences in Vegas together and you just get to know each other. And I just think that's kind of what life's about. And you asked me kind of who I am and where I'm from.

So I'm from Houston, Texas, have grown up here, native Houstonian, left for about 20 years after I went to college, and lived in New Orleans and lived in D. C. And, like we all do kind of, you know, different places in different parts of our journey. I started out in marketing, but by a fluke, um, I had gone to Baylor and it was really interesting.

I went through all these classes and stuff like that. And Somebody said, you really should take an advertising class. I think you'd be good at the whole creative stuff. And I was in the business school and was going to be, I don't know, business major, whatever. And that journey, I meet this professor and he's like, you're actually really creative.

You're really good at this. You get the business side, but you've got that piece as well. And, um, he convinced me to stay on. I beg my parents for 15 more hours of their funds at Baylor University. You know, a long time ago, and I got that degree. And here I am years later doing marketing.

And, you know, it's, it's interesting. Cause when I first started out, you think about the ways we used to do it. Right. And now it's so different. 

Mm hmm. 

evolve my career. I tell the story, You know, 20 years ago in marketing, you'd put a direct mail piece out there.

You'd, you'd reach out to somebody with a phone call and all these antiquated things, and you'd sit back for three or four weeks and, you know, wait for them to call you back or to reach back out. And now, you know, it's, it's seconds. We're, we're managing our time as marketers as seconds. And 

Mm. 

You know, that's, that's been a fun thing to watch through my career.

And I've been very fortunate to be both in commercial and in public sector, leading marketing campaigns. I lived in New Orleans and worked for an ad agency there for a while. So I've really had experiences that I think helped develop my perspective when I sit in front of a client now, and also kind of give you that cache of who you are.

But then I also try to bring that real side to myself, which is I'm a mom. I live in Houston, Texas. I support my single mom, I guess I should say. a kid that's just I look at him as an amazing kid. He's got challenges. He's got what I call his superpowers of learning. That I think will actually give him an edge in this world.

And how do I know that? Because I work with a lot of people that have dyslexia dysgraphia and all those things that my son is challenged with. And so that is, another part of myself. And then, you I'm also in this generation that, that I think I'm, I don't really know if I like the term, but it's called the sandwich generation, where we're not only taking care of our kids, but we're taking care of our parents.

And so I have an elderly father that has dementia and I manage him and my mother and their world. And so you really are kind of in this balance of, who gets your time and then wait a minute. What about me? How do I get my time? It's interesting just trying to look at how life has led me through these things and, you and I have talked a lot about in the last three or four years, I've started writing as a way to process

What I'm thinking and how to kind of work through some things on my own because I do a lot of things independently and that process has helped me kind of find who I am again and because you get lost and, you know, being a wife or being a mom and all those kind of things and you hit this point in midlife, which is where I am and you kind of say, wait, what's the next 

30, 50 years, what's that gonna look like for me? And so I feel fortunate 'cause in the last year or two I've had a lot of reflection on where do I want to go? What's that legacy that I wanna leave? And I look to others, you know, what is yours? 

So it really does help you kind of figure some of that out. That's just a little bit about who I am. personally, I, take bar classes, love to work out. I play the piano. I like to sing some not great at that, but just, you know, as part of that music is a big part of my life.

I'd love to go listen to live music, and just read and I don't sit still very often. So, a lot of what I do is active travel, you know, is 100 percent at the top of my list too, but just a little bit about me.

You do it all. 

I mean, truthfully, and I saw your post about that That's an impossible, feat from the Women's Leadership Conference that you went to.there's so much that you said there that I want to touch on. I totally understand, even back to the industry change, because when I went to journalism school, you had to choose between print or broadcast.

And then if you chose broadcast, you had to choose TV or radio. And, 

Can we do them all? I mean, 

yeah, and then, right, and then the world became digital and you had to know how to do all of the things. And so post school, and I say this in every industry we've been in, you had to learn to shift. And I think that's one of the problems that we're seeing happening in government specifically right now is this post pandemic world.

You know, government didn't know how to work remotely. They didn't know how to, you know, Use social media. And then these are the things that I'd always been really focused on in my work was, you know, that government shouldn't be an exception to how these other industries were shifting. Because when I was in the TV industry beforehand, I knew, you know, working for an old school journalist needed to be blogging and using social media and pushing her to do all of those things.

And, and so that's always been kind of at the center of my work. so I love hearing that from you too, because that degree we got 25, 30 years ago, isn't at all reflective of what that industry is now. And I know that a lot of journalism schools are struggling to re imagine how they teach students and what kind of degrees are offered and what is it that our future workforce is going to need.

And that's another thing that I love thinking about and spending time on. And then Whether it's perimenopause to this phase of life. I have friends whose kids are leaving for college or have just left for college. It seems to be this new phase, that we're in.

And there's just not a lot of people talking about the pressures on women. I think specifically around all those roles that you just described, and men too, but I think specifically where we really connect on, and especially as you as a single mother and having a huge job, a big job. I mean, you're someone who I admire and look up to, and I'm always like, and it does appear on the outside, like she's doing this all Right.

but that grace that you said in allowing for yourself to understand where you are in this moment of life, and then the idea of reinvention is like, could this be just the beginning? 

Yeah. 

I mean, it's kind of like our marketing careers, right? We've had to like go with what the moment is. And I feel like that's what my life is. I mean, when something's presented to me, you can make the choice to say, you know what, this is a great opportunity.

I'm going to check it out. Or you just jump in. And I've always been a person that's kind of said, I used to joke when I was, you know, past role, I say, go big or go home guys. Like, let's do it. You know, we don't know where this is going to go. And I think you have to have this level of fearlessness. And I had a leader a couple of years ago, described me as fearless.

I just looked at myself terrified all the time because you don't put off that you are. And I said, I think it's just because I have confidence in what I think I can deliver. And if I don't, I'll figure it out as I go. And I think that's how you and I, if we had stayed what we were doing 20, 30 years ago, I mean, it doesn't work anymore.

It just doesn't work, especially with our, our kids that are, what I call the alpha generation. I don't think you're. Yeah, your youngest is, I mean, that is a whole different way of buying and how they interact with social and digital and all that. And it's a, the way they talk is even, I'm having to learn what these words mean and stuff, but we have to evolve with it.

And I just think that's the cool part of life. You know, I 

Yeah. 

it's fun.

Well, and I think that's where the opportunity lies in the work we do with moving government forward, because we see this other side, right? both of us have worked in the private sector where you understand that the government public sector shouldn't be an exception to how the world works.

And yet you hit a lot of frustration. And I know you can relate to this when you're going into cities or working with cities or any clients in the government sector, and you're wanting them to adopt your technology or think about doing things differently to Deliver services to residents in the way they want to receive them, which is what I'm always really focused on.

And because I spent 12 years on the city side, I understand all of those things that you see that you're up against when you're trying to work with these clients and getting them to understand. And so tell me where those opportunities lie, especially now with, AI, and what you're seeing in this landscape.

And then with storytelling, because I think this is another gap where cities do some really cool work or they might adopt cool technology, but then they don't know how to get that back into the resident's hands or tell that story about what they're doing.

I mean, we're on a journey with it, right? Cause the government has not kept up like the commercial world. And some of that's been funding. Some of that I think has been, just. It's such a big machine. How do you really get it to move, , in an agile environment that allows it to really

automate like it needs to happen. I've seen, kind of your experience to around that whole C. X. O. C. D. O. role. It's been created within government. I think that's critical because they can look at what's that experience they're creating for that for that,citizen or constituent out there.

Or how do we digitize what we're doing manually? And so I think there's some things like that that will have to be part of a major transformation. And I've seen it. so in the government areas, that are very, what I consider almost consumer citizen facing, 

Mm hmm. 

those agencies I do work across all public sector.

And so I've seen it there, state and local, which is an area you were in there, they're right on the forefront of the, of the citizen every single day. And so I think that's had to happen. What's interesting is my past roles have been in the strategic marketing omni channel opportunities that I've had and been able to work in.

And, the current role that I'm in has allowed me to shift into what technology does. And so learn a lot about how that technology automation truly can be mapped into, make it more efficient, make it move quicker. But what I find is it's complex. So you look at a typical marketing person like myself, if you come in and start talking about all this in depth technology, I don't understand that, and so as you're talking to your client.

You really have to have that face of it, where you can tell that story to them. If you, if you purchase this and you do this, it really does help streamline it and it's going to empower you as the employee, but also deliver to that citizen what they need. And I think is a piece of that. You know, I also think just taking antiquated systems and really upgrading them with what's needed and then looking at the workforce gaps that are out there.

There's a huge, huge piece there that's missing and hiring the right people, giving them the right incentives, but making them want to stay and making them want to work. And I mean, 

Mm. 

view is there's such a mission behind. we need to do to serve in this, in this government space, but there's also kind of a, it's like a passion piece as well.

I mean, if I can help solve some of the things in government that are just automated and we get all the time and commercial, I think that's a kind of that purpose piece that I've shifted to in life at this point where. I want to make sure I'm lining up to something that really does have a mission and serves others.

And I think it's a shift, right? I mean, 20 years ago, I was wanting to go to the fun events and be where all the cool products were and all that in my job. Now, I really do want to make sure that I leave something within the legacy we all leave that's hopefully solved something for this country, makes it more efficient and, a good resource for us and for our kids and people that are coming up behind us.

Absolutely. And I think about it back to the technology when I arrived as the chief digital officer of a city of, you know, 250, 000 people in 2012, they weren't accepting credit card payment. And it's like, wait a second. The average age of the resident was 32. The majority of our residents want to I mean, this was, this was literally mind boggling to me, right.

But That's what I try to get people on the outside to understand about what it. looks like on the inside. And, you know, why creating a digital roadmap and a plan is important. not just communication plan or a marketing plan, like you talked about, it's It's the digitization of all of our services.

And 311 is another great example of when I eliminated a call center, I forced everyone to use the app. And I think people were like, wait, what? Well, we can keep the call center and we can have the app. It's like. But why? I mean, let's try this. And I know the headache that went into doing that. And then we did it, it was successful.

And everyone was like, Oh, how come you have so many users on your app and it was because we eliminated this to try this. And, and so there's, there's a aversion to risk in that space. When you're someone like you or me, who are thinking big, Right.

And, and thinking big problems and understanding how, like you said, that we can make a mark and take what we know and infuse it into this space to make a difference and residents what they want and. Go meet them where they are, which is what I always love talking about. And we see these opportunities here.

And, and that's one of the things, and you talked about the passion is It's funny, cause I can be honest when I launched this business, I think a lot of people were like, you got to get out of that government space. You got to get back to kind of where you came from. Yes, and I said no, but this is where I see the opportunity because there aren't people like you or me That are in this space thinking about it this way and that are committed to it and that you said have that passion and want to leave that lasting Legacy, Right.

And we talked about the storytelling briefly But also you and I have talked about another way the world has evolved is you have an amazing story beyond your work, but in your personal life that you're trying to figure out how to transition into a podcast or whatever, and where do you find the time to do that?

And I always tell people that even podcasting alone as part of your business, right, besides the client side or everything else is a lot of work, so talk to me about that, I think this is as women we can also relate because again I did 12 years in a government job loved every minute of it but probably didn't think I, would spend more than a decade in that one space and I think opening myself up to thinking about all the other possibilities and things I, could do and kind of getting creative juices flowing again has been really critical for me at this point in my life and career.

And so tell me about what are those challenges and opportunities and in balancing it all and finding and making the space to be able to be authentically you tell your story. And how do you do that with your work world and the mom, single mom world and the Nancy world? Mm hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. 

In a LinkedIn that I'd gone to a lady's luncheon at an event I was at this week. And it was so great to hear other women in a room talk about, and one of 'em who was the CE of a very large company, she talked about there is no balance, like, stop.

Because the reality is you're never gonna be in balance. Something's gonna happen. You're going to do the best you can and you just have to keep going, but you're never going to have this true balance. And it was funny. I don't even know her, but there was something like, okay, good. I need to hear that from someone else.

Cause I never feel like I'm in balance. But what I do feel like is trying to manage all those plates. It's finding the little moments. Recently, I was flying and the month of October is a hard, hard month. I'm gone. A lot of travel conferences and stuff. And I got home at like midnight on the Wednesday night before, I went to the Halloween festival at my son's school and I had volunteered to Manage the bounce house.

Cause that's what you do as a mom. Right. And I got in at like one or two in the morning. I was exhausted. And there was a part of me that just wanted to say, I cannot go manage a bunch of screaming kids in the bounce house, but I didn't, I got up and, uh, you know, 10, 11 o'clock, got up to got all my work done in the morning that I needed to ran over, manage the bounce house for two hours.

I was like a celebrity. My kid had told everybody his mom was coming. He was so excited. I was there. It was just this moment of, I went, wow, this is why I flew in at midnight last night is it's this moment for him of me showing up being a part of the That moment in the school, right?

And I mean, I didn't know any of those little kids and they were just like, you're Hayes's mom. And I'm like, I am, I am. And it, but it, it made me remember, this is what's important. This is, these are the moments with him that I need to make sure I capture and I show up for. You are like the best at that.

And I'm not the best 

Yeah. 

that. And I try really hard, you know, to have the mom friends and, and social stuff. And sometimes it just has to go. My parents, my kid, my job, those are things that kind of rank and then all the extras, you'll know, you find me on text or you might don't find me or, I find time, but it's it's hard, and you just have to look for those moments in life and to hear other women say they're struggling with the same things, which is what happened this week at this luncheon, it just validated.

First of all, for me that I'm okay, I'm okay. This is not just me. Get over yourself, Nancy. It's not just you, but it also made me go, you know what? There's a whole bunch of us out here that are doing this together. And it, there was something about just sitting in a room of, you know, 200 women that are balancing a kid, a job there, and what was hilarious is I'm in the middle of this conference and I'm thinking to myself, not to get off on a tangent of a story, but we lost a lot of our, our belongings this summer in the storms that hit Houston.

I realized Sunday night at nine o'clock before I'm leaving at 4 a. m. The next morning, I didn't have the elf on the shelf and I spent two days on text with friends trying to figure out how to source that. And as stupid as that sounds, I met a conference trying to get this because my kids can be back at my house on Wednesday and I got to have it created.

There was a village around me when my very best friends stepped in. He helped me do it. I mean, like he. Jumped and I was like, you know, Nancy, you're okay. You're okay. Because you've got what you need around you to help you do that stuff was not in balance. And my entire team I was with in Vegas was laughing that I'm focused on the elf, but I'm like, guys.

This is really important to my kid. I cannot go home Wednesday night without this being sourced and, you know, making a mess in my kitchen. This has to happen. And it's little things like that, that I think remind me as a mom someday, he's going to, I'm going to tell him that story. Cause you know, one of the things I've been doing is I write.

So like that story I'm writing it because it'll be a great story in 10 or 15 years. He can laugh that I was a conference, but also managing which elf and how to get it there. And I mean, you know, are things I want him to realize are important to me. And I know that has nothing to do with our, what we're 

Yes. No, this is, so perfect that you bring this up. Yes, yes, 

of what we're trying to do.

yes. So I love that you think I do.

all those things well, because I feel the same way. So thank you. That's a very nice compliment, but I just look I spent 12 years, you know, definitely prioritizing.

I think I started that job when I had a. Eight week old and a two year old. Two kids in diapers and had to do a lot of hiring, a lot of firing, a lot of building, a lot of that, and then 12 years goes by and my daughter's 12. I've been in that same job and they've never known anything differently. And now suddenly I can have time and do things like be on the booster club and which I never did.

I've never been the stage mom, been able to volunteer and I'm not that great at it. like, I think I'm better going to work. 

I can source it. I'm going to source it all. 

And yeah. so we're driving in the car, the other night and my 12 year old says, mom, we got to tell you, dad went out of town one time and you did not move the elf.

And This was years ago and they never wanted to tell me. 

whole elf thing is genius, but I'm telling you what, it did not show up at December, December 1st. Apparently is when it shows up my house. I forgot that we had full on meltdowns. Sunday 

Oh, 

was just like, and I mean, it's destroyed and my stuff. And so I'm like, I don't even know where to get one.

It's, I'm leaving it for me. I was just like the 

well, yes. 

us to get through. And thank goodness 

Yeah, 

up when you need them. You know, it's so important. So important

for sure. So next week my husband has to travel again. And this morning I said to my daughter, I'm like, don't worry. I'm putting a reminder on my phone.

to move it. Me 

I'm not going to screw this up. I told my husband, I said, I have two ideas. He goes, what are you talking about? I'm like, for when you're gone next week, like I have, I have to plan ahead.

Like, because there's, and again, you're single doing it all. And even if you're not. And even if you have an amazing hands on partner, and I think you're on to something about this stage of life, and I'm so glad you're writing because I was just talking to my friend and former mayor, who I adore yesterday, and she was saying, you

know, you need to be writing 15 minutes a day.

And, and it doesn't always have to be, so journal like like you said, it can just be a story. It could be something you've been thinking about. It can be an idea. And I put a lot of things in my notes in my phone and I do a lot of like memo audio recordings and things like that. but and you know what she said to me, which is something you and I have talked about too with podcasting and book writing is she's like, I need to write a book. And she's like, but who has time for that? And she's like, so I just like, you know, try to piece it together. 

is it's not our book, Dana. It's, it's the stories we leave for our kids. 

Mm, 

so I started writing snippets of things that happened. So like I took the notes on the L thing just because I want to put it and I started writing this thing 

It's the first 41 years of my life before my child was born I started recognizing he didn't know who his mom was before. And anytime I think of a story or a funny thing, I will just write it real quick. And so I've written probably 15 to 20 of these, like just little about who I am. And my goal is at some point in my life to leave this to my child.

Cause he's only known me, you know, the nine years he's existed, but. The first 41. So much of my life happened that he didn't know. for me, it's like what I'm writing down, who hears it, who reads it someday, whether I'm gone, it goes, wait, this is, she's got a point there.

She's got something. And what evolved me into this as you referenced it earlier, A couple of years ago, I across a lot of stories of my family and of the past, it brought a lot of things to light that I didn't know. And they were generational things that had been passed through now multi generations, and our family never talked about.

They put them under the rug. We covered him up, and there's some big things in the story. spent two years going through boxes and going through and writing this story. And I still don't know fully what I'm going to do with it yet. I, you know, everyone's like, make it a podcast, make it a movie, make it whenever it has all the elements of that great Texas story.

Right. But what I have found is it's helped me find myself. 

mm, 

understand stories of a woman that was my grandmother that I never knew and where her life ended abruptly. I, know that I want to help carry her story on, which I think is living through me in some weird, crazy way, but it's a lot of things that I didn't know about her that I figured out her and my grandfather are very, um, ingrained in our family.

And, you know, I had to say the other day said to me, Nancy, it's part of your DNA. I said, I know that. But I didn't know that I never really understood the impacts of the lives they had before me because they never talked about it. Even my own father, who's got dementia, he never knew anything about my grandfather's life in a war or my grandmother and the things she wrote.

They just didn't. They didn't talk about things. And so that's 

mm, 

realize I want my son Hayes to know my story, you know, and I want it to be written down in a way that he can laugh about it and reflect on it. And I want it to be full of humor and funny things that happened to him.

What I learned from them because they weren't easy at the time. But now it's something you look back on and say, wow, I'm glad that happened. But I think it's, it's part of that writing and processing. And I'm not a good writer. I tell people, I'm not really a writer. I'm a storyteller. I write, like I 

mm, 

And I think that is where I learned to do that was in my marketing career. Right. I mean, we, we, as a marketer, you don't write, these long, you know, POVs or whatever you're writing. I wrote copy. I wrote things that help tell the story of the brand. Right. so now I look back and I see this story of my family and I'm thinking, wow, I'm now the one I think somewhat designated to tell the story and also help change the narrative of the story so that my kid, my nephews don't carry on those generational things that have really taxed and I think made it hard on our family, you know, for years 

yeah. 

of that evolved.

I mean, I found this stuff in a Yeah. The house that I owned and cleaned out in a box. I mean, it's, it's crazy how things come to you. I could have thrown all that away and never looked at it. Instead, I chose to take time to process it and figure out what it was and where it came from. So I read one time a book, about longing.

There's a whole word long. I didn't even know what that word was, but talks about how you're longing for something in your life. And sometimes you have to learn from your past and the ancestors and people before you. To really understand the joy and happiness of where you want to go in your life. And I'm mad that I wish this had happened 20 years ago, not where I am now, but I'm just glad it happened because otherwise I would have probably spent the rest of my life, never really knowing where I came from to help me build and grow to where I want to go.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. your legacy. This is so, it's so amazing and it's important that you take the time. And we get so caught up in doing all the things and all the roles and the hats we wear that we don't take the time to stop. And you were talking about storytelling and I thought of another crazy example that recently I saw on the new JonBenét Ramsey documentary on Netflix, the executive producer was my old Boss and co worker at MTV and I saw his name flash up and him and I Wanted to convince our the executives at MTV to let us do true life.

I have autism And they told us no because and this was back in 2005

You're

And they said no, they can't talk. You know, this is a documentary They're you know, how are you going to tell this story? How are you going to tell this story? And I thought You Well, the story needs to get told. I mean, this was at a time when people were just realizing, and the stats were really high, even back then.

Um, interestingly enough, mostly focused on boys having autism at that time, which now has changed. But at that point, even casting that show, we really couldn't find girls. Um, and, and, and it was, we, we had a kid with Asperger's, who was, uh, trying his shot at stand up comedy. And then we had two kids who were non verbal.

And so I was like, when they said, no, we just don't think you can tell that story. And I was like, Oh Yeah. watch me. And him and I sat on this journey and it wasn't easy. We had to mic kids who didn't want to wear a mic. And what would take you an hour to film something would take weeks 

sometimes we had to leave shoots and come back from New York to California. Okay. We'll be back in a few weeks when Jeremy's feeling a little more up to having us. It's over and it won an Emmy and there were awards and the executives who told us no at first, obviously now would be like, okay, nevermind.

We were wrong. You know, it, it's what made me fall in love with storytelling and I love what you say about your story cause That's really important too because I get told a lot like I love helping other people tell their stories. I love making other people look good and I had someone recently say, well, yeah, but Like, what about your story?

And so I think That's a great lesson for us in, documenting our history to understand who we are and where we want to go, because you said at the beginning, what does this next 30 years look like, right.

So you're like taking this time of self reflection and historical. family reflection to understand the life that you want to make. And I think generationally, when we think about our grandmothers and what they were faced with, and knowing that we have children, that we don't want to have to, deal with those types of things, but that they understand where they came from. It's just so critical and so important, you know, Um, um, um, 

I look at all my friends that do. And I think if I can do something in this world that helps them, know, have a better way, a better path in, in marketing or a better path and wherever they're heading, um, you know, into their careers or their life.

Um, I want to be a person that helps with that. Right. Um, and so I think that, that is a key thing. The other piece I would tell you is I always, um, When I have people that are, you know, a lot younger than me that I'm working with, I always give them time, whether it's 15 minutes or whatever, because I'm like, I want them to learn something from me and not repeat what I did, you know, like, learn, listen to something I've done and hopefully help that, you know, help your career go in the direction you want.

Be passionate about it. Like, understand where you want to go. Mine's kind of always fallen or somebody, you know, wanted to hire me because I've known them or it's always been relational. But I think there are a lot of people that are very more, um, a lot more, um, you know, very meticulous about what they want to do next.

I never had that vision. And, you know, now, as I've gotten older, I'm like, I kind of want to have a vision for what I want to do next and it's got to fill me up. It's got to have that purpose piece of it, um, that I think is just in everything we do. Right? I mean, I don't want to. Wake up 20 years from now and say, well, I made the donuts for 20 years.

I want to make the donuts that help make something else. Right. And so I think those are key elements that, you know, I notice an age maybe kind of helps you get there or whatever. You just kind of ripening your old age or whatever. I don't know what it is, but it's, it's helped me figure out kind of the directions I want to go.

And I still don't know. I mean, I hope until the day I die that I'm, you know, learning what I want to do because I don't ever want to stop doing. I definitely know in 10 years, I want to not be working all the time and travel the world and learn new things and go to art galleries all day long and do fun things like that.

And, until then, I want to learn every day. I've just kind of always been wired that way. I don't, I always want to think and be creative and come up with something that's new. And I think that's, that's great. And we can do that to help. Future women, and future, girls are out there right now trying to figure out what they want to do, and somebody asked me how I like my career, my favorite parts.

And I tell them, you know, this is what I like and I don't like. And, you know, it's just 

um. 

of what we all have to do in our journey and where we're going. 

Yeah, well, I I learned from you and and I'm learning from you right now and today and I'm thinking this is This is the gift that you are giving and it's that. gift that I think as women we can all give as like you said Mentors and leaders and one of my dear friends actually told me yesterday She said don't repeat it and you, just said this like if you've already done it Don't do it, you know, don't do it again.

Think about doing it differently. Reinvent it. And That's a great lesson for, for leadership and for teams and people underneath you is, is, and a lot of that in government that you see, is just keep the wheel turning. We're just going to do it the way we've always done it. And, and actually, if more people took that mindset and approach, it would get done differently because we would say, No, We're not gonna do that again.

We're gonna do it. You don't do it like me. Think of a new way. You know? And there needs to be more of that in this space especially. And so I just am so grateful to

the kids like you were talking about with autism. My son is not autistic, but he's got dyslexia, dysgraphia and ADHD I see being around. He's in a very concentrated school with kids like that now. And seeing those kids as they do look at it differently. so I'm as a mom who now has become an advocate, understanding that space of the world because I've lived in schools where people are like, Oh, what's wrong with your kid?

There's nothing wrong with my kid. My kid's probably the smartest kid in the room. He just can't write like your kid can, he just can't read like your kid can, but he's got audiographic memory and he's got, you know, like incredible, like anything he hears, he can repeat it immediately and he can see something and repeat it.

Like, it's crazy. His mind is different, but it's different in a good way. And so when you can tell those stories and you can capture it, like you did with autism, I mean, that's something so beautiful because it's, it's, it's. Not the normal in the world. I think we can choose to just show the toe the line and be normal.

But I've always found that when I don't, it fills me up and it leads me to what's next. And, you know, lately I've heard a lot of people say they've got a lot of big changes and things shifting in their life. And I just think sometimes that's a really big thing. Good place to be because you can make choices.

You can make, you know, what, what's going to be the next step in my journey. Where are we going to go next? And it's, it's kind of cool, but you also have to remind, you know, and kids of our, it's okay to change. It's okay for, to find new things that, that, that's part of the great things about life I, and I have to say back to my career, I mean, that's, I've always just, been open to what is presented to me and what those opportunities are.

And I tend to get more frustrated when opportunities aren't don't get presented, you know, and I'm not, you know, understanding kind of the goals and the vision and where we're headed that that that tends to make me, you know, get disenchanted. Want to do something different, you know, and but you sometimes have to go through that to do something different, right?

Um, 

Yes. 

I've been very fortunate and. community and my friends and great people that I meet I mean, just all part of the journey that we get to go through in life.

And it's, it's wonderful. It's great.

Yes. Oh, I love this. I have loved this conversation. I love and adore you. I think you're amazing and so proud to know you and our journey doesn't end here. You. are an inspiration to me and I am going to get off of this and I'm going to write I'm just going to start writing. 

Write it down 

Yes. 

because your girls someday will be like, man, our mom was hilarious or when, man, I can't believe my mom did that. And there's a lot of life that we've lived. Our kids don't know. I mean, you just, it's amazing what comes up and things remind me, but I get a reminder. I make a note to write the story.

And no one's probably ever going to read it, but my kid, but I don't care, 

Exactly. 

thing I was gonna tell you earlier when you said, how do you find the time? Well, the good part of midlife not to get too crazy. Personal is when you go through midlife, you tend to wake up in the middle of the night and you can choose later on your phone.

You can be like me and go right. And that's when I write, I wake up at 3 or 4 in the morning. 

Yep. 

just, I just get it out and it's crazy just going through that. You think this is, this is kind of wacky, but that's when I find the time. 

Okay. Before we end. I want to do a quick little rapid fire with you. That's just something fun, kind of off the cuff that I do. And this has been so great. Thank you so much. I feel like this is just part one of our conversations. Yes. What gets you out of bed in the morning.

I would say it's probably my, 10 pound dog happy, but, that's an easy one, I would think it's just that, you have to keep going. You have, no matter what the day is ahead of you. And I think that's part of the intrigue. There's a part of me wants to get up and figure out what the day is going to be.

There's some days where I don't really want to get up and have to deal with what I have to deal with. But once you get through it, you think, Oh, wow, this has been a great day because I've made it through. So I don't have a choice. I mean, I honestly have to keep. Going because of kid and family and life and all that.

I've always been a person that just wants to get up and start the day and figure out what the day is going to bring to me.

I love it. What's the best piece of advice that you have for leaders, innovators, or other entrepreneurs out there?

I don't know if it's mine as an original, but one of the things I have seen best with the really great leaders I've had is the diversity around the table. And when you bring in different perspectives around a table and give them a voice to hear. And to listen and to learn the path you are able to create as a leader is much stronger than one where you don't have that around the table.

And I mean, everything, not just just race, but age, gender, all the diversity elements because everyone's bringing a different point of view to that table. And I think that is so critical and how you lead and how your organization moves forward, find growth. You have to have that.

Absolutely. What is the single best thing, or maybe the single best tool that you have in your tool belt, that you use to get it all done? 

Maybe my Google calendar, my cell phone, 

Yeah. Right. Mm 

technology, 

hmm. 

it to organize everyone and, plug in a timeline or a plate eight or whatever, there's no way I could do it. I think about like back in the day when we would use, we didn't have cell phones and we would like just meet up with people.

And there's no way with all the plates you're juggling, how would you do that? I mean, I don't know how I would do it nowadays. It was simpler back then.

Finally, one more thing. Where these days are you looking for inspiration? 

So part of me is looking for inspiration, on Instagram and places like that. but where I find it is when I can actually step away from where I am. So I think I told you I had a big, big birthday back in April and I went and walked the Camino de Santiago, which is the way it's a journey through Spain.

It was my second time to do it. And I went through Spain and Portugal this time, the French side before. And was something about stepping out of life in the normal. And being able to really recenter, it's a simple team. You walk 20 miles a day pretty much, and you just walk through villages and you walk through life.

But there was something about the simplicity of needing to just walk. That was my only task every day and eat and feel my body. That was it. It helped me refocus. It helped me recenter. And I went through a lot of tough things this summer. 

I'm Thank goodness I had done that or I would have been not a good thing, but it helped me center. And so I think for me, a lot of times when I need to refocus, I take my mind back there because I did journal and I wrote about it, um, and I go out into my neighborhood and I walk or I step away from technology and the world that we're in all the time.

just to recenter and find that focus the other thing I do is I play the piano and there's something about connecting with music and I'm not great at it, but it makes me feel good and I relax. 

Mm hmm. 

something about that music and, and being out in nature, I think is, is the ways that I can help myself kind of get back to where I need to go to, to re, to reenergize too.

I used to play the piano and So I'm clearly need to get back in the game 

I had not touched my piano in 30 years since I went to college and my mom called and said, do you want this? If you want it? I said, yeah, I want it. Don't get rid of me. I have a beautiful grand piano and it got delivered and a friend of mine joked and said, just put a player piano thing on it.

You're never going to touch that. It's beautiful, but you're never gonna touch it. I sat down and started playing at night and I pulled up within about a week. I could play a recital piece. Yeah. That I had played when I was 17, 18 years old and had not touched it in almost 30 years. 

Oh, that's amazing. 

unlocked and

it's amazing how my mind is able to shift back into that creative space. 

Amazing. 

It's really cool 

Amazing. Okay, I'm going to Wind Beneath My Wings by Bent Midler coming right up 

Oh Nancy, so great to talk with you. Thank you so much for joining me Okay, yes, you too. Yes, you too. Thank you