Episode 9 - Navigating Career Transitions with Sherice Torres

In this episode of Oh, hi! Stories Podcast, I sit down with marketing powerhouse and change agent Sherice Torres for an honest, vulnerable conversation about redefining success, walking away from the C-suite, and what it really means to take a radical sabbatical.

For the first time, I open up about my own journey—leaving a job I built and loved to start something new, grappling with burnout, and trying to reclaim my voice, joy, and purpose. Sherice and I talk about what happens when your identity is wrapped in your title, how hard it is to be still when you're wired to keep moving, and why rest can be the most revolutionary thing we do.

Sherice shares what inspired her to step back, the fears she had to overcome, and the new rules she created to guide her sabbatical—built around peace, play, and pleasure. This conversation is for anyone who's hit a turning point, questioned their path, or just needs permission to pause.

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About Dana
Dana Berchman is an award-winning expert in marketing and communications with a gift for leading teams, connecting people, and telling the human story. An experienced innovator, public speaker and media professional, Dana is a proven expert at developing communication strategies, maximizing reach, creating digital roadmaps for cities and organizations, and delivering data-driven results with heart.

Transcript

Dana Berchman: Sherice thank you so much for joining me today. It is such an honor to have you as a guest, and you are truly someone who I admire, as a woman, an entrepreneur, a mother, a leader.

I was fortunate enough to cross paths with you. Gosh, more than 15 years ago in the Viacom world, 

Sherice Torres: Mm-hmm. 

Dana Berchman: you got to work with my amazing husband and I became a super fan of you who at the time I know he was so inspired and moved in his career by working for someone like you and. Still to this day, talks about what an incredible boss, leader, mentor you are and, and continue to be even, you know, more than a decade later.

And so I'm just really honored to get to have this conversation with you today.

Sherice Torres: Oh, Dana, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure watching your career and Scott's career over the years and like building a friendship from afar. So, so excited to be here today.

Dana Berchman: Oh, well thank you. And right now I find you, I know you've just returned from doing some self exploring and you're in this incredible moment in your career and life. I think both of us as mothers with children preparing to. Go to college and go away. We're in 

Sherice Torres: Oh my goodness. 

Dana Berchman: time of our lives and careers, and you recently started on a new journey in 2025.

Um, obviously you've held huge, you know, chief marketing officer for some huge corporations and businesses, and now you're taking some time on what you call a radical sabbatical to. Take care of yourself and think about what this next stage of your life looks like, and I'd love to know about that and what inspired you to really pause and reflect to figure out what this next phase looks like.

Sherice Torres: Yeah, so it's in, it's a. I think it's an interesting story. Uh, so end of last year, my last role came to an end like so many companies. I was CMO at a company in the electric vehicle charging space, and we're going through some financial challenges and the entire executive team was given a task in terms of, uh, layoffs. Cutbacks of our budgets. And once I went through the task, I was given the CEO and I had a conversation and I said, you know, hey, I love this job. I need this job. But when I think about I. What the company needs at this phase in its lifecycle and what is best for the department. We would be better served by keeping a number of more junior marketers here than having a CMO. I'd love to stay. I'd love to come back if I have that opportunity, but this is what's right for the company. And as soon as the words came outta my mouth, I was kicking myself because I was like, what are you thinking? You have, senior in high school, he's about to graduate. Go to college. You have a sophomore.

You are the primary breadwinner in your home. You don't sacrifice yourself on the altar of layoffs.

And when they took me up on that offer, I was equal parts relieved and terrified. I was relieved because I knew I needed something different. I was terrified. 'cause I'd never experienced something like this before. So the end of the year was really a grieving process for me. You know, grieving the job that I'd left, the identity that I built up over almost 30 years. And then in January, I, went to a workshop, there was a group called Modern Elder Academy, um, chip Conley, Christine Sperber and Jeff Oui are the co-founders of MEA and I'd heard about them for the past seven years.

The group's about seven years old. And I'd admired them from afar, but I went onto their website and there was a Navigating Transitions workshop and I said. That's exactly what I need. I'm gonna go to this thing. I'll go to the high desert in Santa Fe, and I will either write a business plan or I'll write out the requirements for what my next job is.

I was going in with a plan, figure out what's next. What came through loud and clear was, honey, you need a break. I had not taken more than two weeks off with the exceptions of medical leaves, which we all know maternity leave or other, that is not a break. So I'd not taken more than two weeks off since 1995. Let's just pause and think about that. 1995 to 2025, and I'd only taken two weeks off because that was the cycle I was in. That was the cycle that a lot of corporate roles or traditional roles. Keeps you running it. So when I went to MEA, every message I got was shifting from what's your next career?

What's your next role? To who am I now? 

Dana Berchman: Hmm. 

Sherice Torres: What's important to me now, what lights me up now? And I knew that's not something I could determine in a six day retreat, you know, in a week long workshop. So at the end of each session, the MEA compadres, you call your classmates compadres, you're on a journey of creation together. Uh, at the end, the commitment I made to my compadres was to take a minimum of a six month sabbatical. To really radically reclaim my joy, and that's where I am. And I've hit the halfway mark.

Dana Berchman: And so how is it, tell me what you have discovered. I love that radically reclaim my joy and I can so relate to this because I left voluntarily a job that I had built and created and was passionate about for 12 years. To take a risk and try to build something on my own. And also to try to be sure that I wasn't missing out on these precious high school years and junior high years of my daughters before they leave. also to get my voice back again and find out, reclaim who I was and, and one thing I definitely did was jump into it very quickly and in hindsight I look back and think, you know, it might not have been a bad idea to take a little bit of time to do exactly. What you are talking about, but as women, we don't. Stop to do that, to take the time for ourselves or think we have permission, to do that. And I said, when I left that job after, a corporate world and then that also, same as you, taken two weeks off since our wedding and honeymoon combined. But other than that, it was, I started a job with.

A 10 week old and a 2-year-old moved from New York after the first baby, and it was, it was just like run, run, run, run, run. And so I can so relate to this. So tell me what you've learned in these three months again about finding this joy. And it's also really hard, I think, for people like you and I who are so used to running so fast. To be still. advice do you have for people like me or others who are wanting to do the same thing as you are before? We're just burnout to no end.

Sherice Torres: Yeah, so I think there's a few things. First, make some guidelines for your time. I wrote about this in my, linkedIn updates and also on Medium, I write a post called Project Lotus. That's what I've branded my radical sabbatical because, you know, I'm a marketer, I'm going to brand it. And one of the first things that I did was follow the advice of my dear friend Daisy Oger Dominguez.

Daisy actually recently published a book called Burnt Out to Lit Up. She outlined her what she called the year of my heart. After she left a role, she took a year to really rediscover what she wanted next and deeply connect with her family. And the first thing she did was to set some guidelines and being a rule follower, being an a person who likes order, I knew I needed structure to my days.

I was literally going from back to back 25 minute meetings from. Some days, 6:00 AM until 8:00 PM Pacific to having full stretches of unscheduled days in front of me. So I had kind of three rules that I set up for myself. First, I wanted to have no more than three scheduled events per day. I did that because I knew if left to my own devices, I would fall back into old habits and fill every waking hour with an activity, with networking, with some type of certification or class. And part of this time really was to rest. It wasn't the whole time, but I was extremely burnt out, so I said no more than three activities per day. Obviously, if you have a family emergency or something you know necessary for your health, of course that will bump other things, but no more than three scheduled activities, number one. Number two, I wanted to do something creative every day. The first aha moment after I began this sabbatical was I no longer had hobbies. I. I was very one or two dimensional in my personality. I would go to work if I was at home. I'd have dinner with my family, then I'd go back to the second shift, go to sleep and start over the next day. Lather, rinse, repeat, and other than occasionally reading books on weekends or over vacation, that's all that I did. I realized I was missing connection. I wasn't making deliberate time to go on walks with a girlfriend or schedule a Zoom coffee chat with a colleague from business school. I had lost so many of the things that brought me joy, fulfillment in my life prior, so I decided I needed to do something.

Creative just for me every day. I'm gonna pause there for a minute because even that was an adventure. I started by making Lego flowers. So if you see behind me, I have my Lego orchid here and I have, let's see, I have a little bonds bonzai plant and a and cherry blossoms. Even that the first time I was making the Lego cherry blossoms. I freaked out because there were no words on the direction. It's just images. It makes sense if you think about it 'cause it's often kids. But I froze and initially asked my 16-year-old Victor, here, help me. Can you do this? And he's like, uh, mom, this is supposed to be your thing. And the big discovery, I had a massive fear of failure.

Dana Berchman: Hmm.

Sherice Torres: I couldn't even. Take a risk of following the wrong step, putting together a Lego cherry blossom. And so I then journaled about that. What, what is behind this? What is this fear? What do I think is going to happen if I make a mistake? And that really uncovered so much for me. And then . My third rule for Project Lotus was if it didn't fit into one of three categories, I wasn't gonna do it.

Hmm.

Every day. Those categories were peace, play, 

and pleasure. 

Dana Berchman: Hmm.

Sherice Torres: So in addition to not scheduling more than three things a day, if it didn't fall into one of those three categories, I wasn't doing it. So let me pause there. You ask kind of how I shape the time and what my advice was. That's how I shaped my time.

But my main advice for anyone thinking about this is it's not easy. If you think, oh, I'm gonna go into a sabbatical and I'll get lost lots of rest, and it'll be fantastic. It's really a rollercoaster. Some days I enjoyed the rest. I took the walk. I was very deeply introspective. Other days I was like, oh my God, what are you thinking?

You're gonna lose everything. You're gonna become irrelevant in your industry. Someone's going to see this career break and, and it's going to ruin your chances for your next job. I wish I could say I was true to my commitment and never applied to jobs. That would be a lie on the days where the, I have to have a job I have to provide for my family. I would troll LinkedIn

and 

I'd apply for lots and lots of things. Then I would pause and my prayer, my meditation would be, if this role isn't for me, please don't let me get it.

Dana Berchman: Mm.

Sherice Torres: And what usually would be bad news? Not getting a role or not getting a callback became good news because I wasn't getting the calls. I went through an interview process or two late last year before I committed to the sabbatical, and I had the same prayer. I said, please, if this role isn't for me, don't let me take it, because if I get the job, I'm going to take it. And those two jobs did not work out.

Dana Berchman: Mm-hmm.

Sherice Torres: companies, wonderful opportunities, but it's not what I needed in that moment.

So my biggest piece of advice for women, for anyone thinking about taking a career sabbatical or just any break, is make it work for you. Set up the guidelines that will set you up for success. And give you some structure to your days because we're so accustomed to structure and roll with it, you are going to freak out a hundred percent guaranteed. Every day is gonna be different, but don't think that it's a mistake. Set your guidelines. Know what you can afford, how long you can afford to step back and just roll with the emotions because it is. A big change from how people like you and I have navigated our careers.

Dana Berchman: Completely. I can so relate to everything you're saying, and I've had the same moments. I'm like, this. I'm just applying for the job. You know, and, and you get this moment of desperation, but then in those moments of clarity, when you ask yourself. Is that really the right job for me? Is that the next step?

Is this something? And I think building something is really scary. And for me, I've always been a part of a bigger team and leading a team. I know you're the same way. And this has been so solitary in the sense of, consulting with clients and kind of coming in and out as an advisor. And then in some ways relief of.

They can either implement my ideas or not, not my problem. But then I miss that control of like, wait, wait, wait. No, I make things happen. Like I make it come to life. And so it's been really hard and I think I hit the six month mark and I said, I can't do this, whatever. And my husband said. It's only been six months and you have a client, you've built your business, you've launched, you have a website, you have a podcast. Go easy on yourself, you know? But I think for us, people who were so defined, and you're someone who you know, went to Harvard, I. And I read a Forbes article, recently about you and, and you were talking about how the people who doubted that you could get into Harvard, you mailed them your acceptance letter, your teachers, and I was 

Sherice Torres: I. 

Dana Berchman: this is the greatest. This is the greatest thing ever. So you are someone and like me, I think now I did not go to Harvard, but who has it? It's in our DNA, it is ingrained in the type of of people. We are the mothers, we are the spouses, we are the workers. I get it, you know, wearing all those hats as you know, it, it's, it defines who we are.

And for me, my work has always been such a primary pillar of who I am. And I think I've really struggled in the mom wearing the mom hat, know, of like. Oh God, you know, maybe I'm not as good at this and is there really gonna be this expectation that I gotta go to everything? You know, how can we find that balance of being able to do it all and do it all well?

And then I think when we do, we burn out. And

Sherice Torres: Yeah.

Dana Berchman: experienced that. And I know you have too. So talk to me about, for people that have in our DNA, right? How have you. I love how you talk about not being so hard on yourself and, and giving yourself these parameters and guidelines and how, how does that self-talk work, in your head, in your mind, , so that you don't take that wrong job, right?

Because it's easy to do, it's easy to fall fallback that.

Sherice Torres: Yeah. So, um, there's a couple of things there. So, uh, another big piece of the workshop I went to last week was really refining my definition of success right now and refining. What elements of the role? Any role, whether it's me doing something entrepreneurially, going back into a large organization, taking a role in a small, smaller organization, um, what am I good at and what lights me up?

Because just

because you're good at something I. It doesn't necessarily mean it's something you enjoy, and let's be honest, I'd love to say that you can find the perfect job. That's only what you like and not what you don't, that's not going to happen. However, if we're not deliberate about what is my zone of genius, right?

What's that intersection of my skill and my interest level, and how much of this role. Meets those parameters. So I took a lot of time listing out my personal values and my professional values. And what was interesting to me is when I listed them out or what my, let me say what my professional values had been, or what I thought my professional values were, what I found is there wasn't a lot of overlap in them. In professional values or the things that I prioritized in my career to date, I saw a lot of things like, um, career advancement being the best, financial security, innovation and inspiration leading teams. I had authenticity and empathy and compassion in there because they're the core of who I am. But when I looked at my personal attributes. A lot of those things I associate with striving, you know, being the best, making the climb. They weren't there. It was really about how do I show up as a person? How do I build community? How do I help build the next generation, whether it be my children, my nephews and nieces, my cousins or the future leaders that I mentor. Then I took a step deeper and I realized. When I was at the peak of my career, and I don't just mean title, when I was feeling fully in my power, feeling fully integrated in my role, my personal values aligned a hundred percent with how I showed up at work, when I felt disempowered or when I was shrinking myself, and I'd love to talk about that. 

I think that's been part of both of our journeys

is when I was making a trade off on my personal values, either to fit in to a culture that did not work for me

Dana Berchman: Mm.

Sherice Torres: advance my career because it's what I thought I should do. Success for me was always getting to the next level as quickly as possible. Right? You go to the best school that you're admitted to, you take the boldface name, job I. You always wanna go up into the right. Well, I've climbed that mountaintop, I got to the C-suite and there are times that I loved it and I was able to be in my integrity, in my power. And there are times when I thought, is this all that there is?

Dana Berchman: Hmm.

Sherice Torres: Did I give away so much of my life and my life force just for this title? And, um, I really am considering what success looks like moving forward. I feel like I might've lost the thread on your, on your initial question, but that's really what I've been thinking about lately.

Dana Berchman: No, I 

Sherice Torres: I. 

Dana Berchman: it. I love it. Two things there. I remember Michelle Obama talking about that getting to the point where you're like in these room with the smartest people and you know you're in the White House and you have everyone coming and you're like. This is it. They're not really any, any different,

and so I think in that you have discovered something about the chase that it isn't fulfilling. I do wanna talk about the shrinking yourself because I think this is something that we really, especially when we're raising our children too, and you know, they're always watching. I had been in a situation where. I was what you said, completely out of alignment with my personal values and my professional values. For, for almost a decade, they were aligned and like you, I was in my joy and power and then they weren't. And I held on and I tried to think that it would change, but I became very quiet. I really lost my voice, which as, you know, we talk about with marketing and being marketers. The personal brand, the speaking, doing this, having these conversations is such a critical part of that. And I was so lost in just kind of like surviving and hanging on. And plus it was, post covid world where everything was changing and, you're also second guessing things because we did have time then to reevaluate, I think. for someone like me, being home was like, oh, I've been sitting in office for 12 hours a day and in my car, and what am I doing? I can do my job at home and, and be here. I mean, that was a crazy epiphany for me 

Mm-hmm. 

but then it almost seemed like, again, back to this idea of this pendulum, it swung back and it was like in the government space, especially now, come back to the office and things were never the same and they were never gonna be the same because the world was different. I felt, you know, I had restraining orders and I wasn't safe in my workplace and I was followed home. And, I had, my children's school was targeted and, I just held on it was like, oh no, no, I won't let them win. Um, at the detriment of. Losing myself, my values to play along or, or fall in line and play that game. And I was, you said something earlier about being free. Free is what I felt when I finally got out of it. But it took so much time to kind of process it and then go to the a spot where I could. Find myself without that job. And who was I? And you're exactly right. I found that the things about me that I think made me the best colleague, the best friend, the best wife, the best mother had been lost, had been silenced, and were gone. And so my kids say all the time, mom, not for millions of dollars. Would we let you go back to that situation?

Or, I remember the first time after that when they said. It was just nice to hear me laugh again. Like it was me, it was Dana, I think as women though, and in general, not just with my particular circumstance, but so often for whatever it is, that role or to fit in or to climb, we, we sit back and we abide.

And that's what I did. You know, I just kept quiet, stayed in my little corner, kept my head down, showed up every day, When we do that, not only are we sending the wrong message to our children, me be clear on that, right? We're untrue to ourselves and to find. A place where you can speak again, which I'm still in the process of kind of doing is, like you said, so freeing, so powerful.

And, and so I, I know what that experience, is like, I look to women like you and others who have had these same journeys and I couldn't agree more about the misalignment of those two parts of our life that are equally important.

Sherice Torres: so first I just wanna say. I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I'm proud of you for choosing yourself. I'm proud of you for choosing your family and that is not easy because so many of the messages we've been given, I think particularly as women are, we can figure anything out if I just work harder, if I just hold on a little longer.

Dana Berchman: Mm-hmm.

Sherice Torres: But to what end? And you know, there's two things coming up for me. Um. The first trip I took to Modern Elder Academy in January, and they are not a sponsor. I know I'm saying their name, like they're writing me a check. No,

I'm writing them checks, but it really did, um, change my life. That first trip when I looked at the calendar, I was like, oh, this is perfect.

I can go. And then I realized I'd be go, it was the week of January 6th, and I realized my son, Victor's 16th birthday was January 9th. And my first thought was, oh, I can't go. And then I was so sad. I went to Victor and I said, Hey, Victor, we call him Ru is his nickname. He'll kill me for saying this in public.

And I'm like, Hey, Ru, there's um, there's this class that mommy wants to take about helping me figure out who I wanna be and what I wanna do next. And I really wanna go, but I'd be gone on your birthday. I'll be back for your party. I'd be gone on your birthday. What do you think? And he said, mom, you've been so sad and you've worked so hard for so long. The best birthday present you could give me is being yourself again.

Dana Berchman: Mm. 

Sherice Torres: And in that moment, I cried. I ugly cried. I was proud. Of this kid speaking such wisdom to me. And I was proud of myself for even asking the question because for so much of my career, so much of my life, I would've dismissed it out of hand.

Oh, oh, well I can't go. It's Victor's birthday. A good mom wouldn't miss her kid's birthday. Particularly if I'm not working, I have no excuse to not be there. So that's one thing that comes to mind. Our kids see where we are. Second, and a lot of this goes to Victor, uh, in this role. My last role, the company was in crisis.

This is all public information. I don't have to go into details, but being chief marketing and communications officer. There's a lot of crises to manage, and it was at least once a week that I was working till two, three in the morning. I'd come home and have dinner, but I'd be up in my office two, three in the morning sometimes pulling all-nighters. And I remember one night, it was right before the layoffs, it's two 30 in the morning. I'm in my office and it's connected to the kitchen and I hear someone getting water and then I hear mom. And I said, yeah, baby. He's like, what are you doing? I said, oh, I'm just doing some work. He said, it's two 30 in the morning.

Why are you working? Oh, oh, don't worry about it. I just, there's just something I had to get done. And then one of the gifts of covid for our family is that if I'm in town, I have dinner with them every night. I don't care what's going on. I will come home. If I'm in an office, I'll come home from the office.

If I'm working from home, I'll stop what I'm doing, have dinner with them. And every night we kind of go through the highlights and lowlights of our day and we're walking through 'em, asking 'em how their day was. And Victor was ready. He said, so mom, what was up with you working at two 30 in the morning? How often do you do that? Why were you working that late? And I kind of gave, you know, whatever. Same old, same old. And then he looked at me with such deep wisdom and he goes. Does the CEO work as hard as you do? And it stopped me in my tracks because my first inclination was to make an excuse and explain why it was okay, why I

was working this much. And I just paused and I said, I know he works hard, but I can't answer your question, and you've given me a lot to think about. Thank you for asking me. That question from Victor was the first like, God nudge that I got, that something had to change. And I really went through in the sabbatical and said, not only do I need to reclaim sleep, reclaim time, reclaim joy, I have to think about why I work the way I work. I'll tell one more. Story when I was in this retreat, they, they drew a graph of kind of, um, how you find the state of flow. And it's kind of a two by two where the size of the challenge is on the vertical and your skill level is on the horizontal. And a state of flow can be found when your skill matches the level of challenge. But what I discovered is sometimes there's a third axis there, and I think particularly for women. At my last role, the challenge was large. I had the skill to meet it, but the circumstances both industry macroeconomic and structurally I, and in many ways, the company were not set up for success. Regardless of how much effort was put in, I wish them all. The luck in the world, I really hope that they can thrive. But when I thought about it, it didn't matter how hard I worked, it didn't matter how much effort I put in. The way things were set up, it was not going to work. And the way I'm wired and the way many high achieving women are wired, we will sacrifice ourselves before we sacrifice the work.

Because we think if I just try a little harder, if I just put in some more effort, I can fix this, I can make this work. And sometimes the answer is, you can't or you can, but at what cost to you?

Dana Berchman: Hmm. That is so powerful and I, you know, I'm thinking about. All of the different scenarios. It's funny you say flow, because I just was watching Rory McElroy talk about flow state after winning the Grand Slam and the masters Because again, when you're busy living your life, you aren't stopping to think about, how your brain is wired and, My husband, who you know, is so calm and is like, you know, you need to meditate and you need to do yoga, and you do these things. I said, I can't sit still. I can't, I'm not wired that way. Right. But sometimes that's. What we have to do to be able to realize that, that some of these things are even happening to us.

'cause like you said, if you go through the motion and you just keep doing it, you don't know. And I think that's how 12 years passed right? Or that's how a career passes you stay, because you feel you don't have a choice. I do think a lot about too, the power of. Women in this next phase of our lives when we are empty nesters, right?

And have this opportunity to. Not feel that pull as much or the guilt, about being at home. That story about getting up in the middle of the night is really haunting. And I, do think there is such power in listening to our children and the things they see and feel. I wish the whole world would pay more attention because they are going to save us and, and they really are our future. So looking forward and looking ahead, what do you see in the industry of marketing, what does that future look like?

And this next phase for you. So I know you're only halfway through, so I'm definitely gonna touch base with you when you finish this sabbatical. and obviously can't wait to follow your journey, but. do you, see coming, for the future, for yourself personally and then maybe for the industry as a whole?

Sherice Torres: Yeah, I'll, I'll start with the industry. So it's interesting initially. I was very much a traditionalist, particularly when it came to marketing creative. You know, I'd been in spaces where they're saying, how can we use AI to, pump out more content or pump out creative with less expense? How can we replace a traditional external agency just working with internal resources and ai?

And initially my thought was, well, we can't because that's, that's not how we do these things. And. Then my change management background kicked in and I said, all right, know this is what you are comfortable with, but every tool that's been developed, especially being in the tech industry for 10 years, all of the projects I worked out at across Google and Facebook and in the blockchain industry, they did not exist. When I started the job, much less when I started my career, we were making and marketing things that were brand new. 

I'll give the perfect example. When, mobile payments started to come out, my first role at Google in 2014 was, leading marketing for Google Wallet and. We initially thought that our market was anyone with an Android phone because of course if you have iOS, if you have an Apple device, you can pay with Apple Pay.

But if you have an Android device, you're gonna wanna pay with Google Pay or Google Wallet. and we thought, oh, everyone will want this 'cause it's easier. Then we looked at after our launch campaign, and I promise I'll bring this back around, but after our launch campaign, we looked at the results and we found that fewer people were even making their first tap to pay with their phone than we expected. And it's probably funny for anyone to hear this today in 2025, because everybody pays for things with their phone. But in 2014,

Dana Berchman: Say it 

Sherice Torres: was much, 

Dana Berchman: for those people in government that still don't collect payment that way. 

Sherice Torres: Yeah. 

Dana Berchman: where I'm. Where I'm standing on my soapbox yelling, did you hear her? Say it 

Sherice Torres: Yeah, 

Dana Berchman: all the government folks 

Sherice Torres: yeah. 

Dana Berchman: you know, you to come in and pay a utility bill in person, please, Sherice, help me out.

Sherice Torres: No, exactly. Everybody pays either online or with their phone. But in 2014, when Apple Pay launched, and so even though Google had been out before, we were amplifying our efforts, what we found is that there was fear. I. It was a change in behavior people had paid with cash or credit cards for for their entire lives. As far back as we could remember in our lifetimes, in our parents' lifetimes, in our grandparents' lifetimes. So using something different, especially when it came to money, brought up fear. If you're driving with a friend and you're using Google Maps or Apple Maps and you go the wrong place, no one thinks you can't drive. They think there's a glitch in the program. Something was wrong with the map. No big deal. In 2014 if you were paying with your phone and it didn't work, there's shame associated because someone thought your payment method was declined. So we had to say, alright, we are smart, traditional marketers, but we are changing human behavior here.

So how do we change our messaging? How do we align our messaging to assuage those fears and get them to try something new? I think the same thing is happening for marketers in the world of artificial intelligence. Yes, we can still create things with big camera crews and onsite filming and some of that beauty. But if you think about the power these tools can give us as marketers, as communicators, when used the right way. It can not only make our jobs easier, make our lives easier, as marketers, we can get out so much more of our message. We can reach such a larger audience. It's really about taking the fundamentals of marketing and communication. What is the customer benefit of this product, of this service, of this program that I'm amplifying? And how do I communicate that clearly to my audience? The tools you use don't matter as

much as the message you are sending. So

I really, it's like we have to get back to brass tacks. Marketing is not about how we do it, it's what we do. So let's use these tools to help us do what we do better, faster, easier. The second thing I'll say is human touch will always matter. Chat, GPT, Claude, Gemini, all of these tools, llama all of these tools are getting better every day. But what makes the difference between a good campaign and a great campaign is the insight that human touch gives. So yes, a tool can pump out a program for you, can pump out a campaign. Fast, cheap, easy, with a great, prompt. But I truly believe that you still need that human touch, that expertise of knowing your user, knowing the magic of your product, and connecting the two, as Google always said, Lorraine Tohill the CMO of Google. That is where the human expertise comes in. I'm also not a complete tech optimist because this is going to cost jobs. People who are very good at their jobs, some things are going to be taken over completely by artificial intelligence. I don't wanna say which roles those are because I certainly can't know and I don't want to cause, you know, mass panic to anyone in those areas. But I would say it's more important now than ever to look at how you can build a portfolio of your skills if you are purely a demand generation marketer. You've used a, you know, a, a single set of tools or just a couple of your favorite tools to really drive marketing pipeline. You wanna think about how can I expand my skillset? How can I become more of a, an integrated marketer, a full funnel marketer? If you are brand and creative, we still need brilliant brand and creative marketers, but I want you to really think about what is the value I'm bringing, and if the value I'm bringing is just making this creative in a certain way, how can I shift my value proposition?

How can I expand my skillset so that my unique contribution remains relevant as these tools expand?

Dana Berchman: I love that. this is what I was trying to do even in the government space, which I believe truly that government isn't an exception to how the world works and how you market and now more than ever. People need to understand the importance of. Services that, especially local governments provide, that your reason, your lights turn on and your toilets flush. But government on the wrong thing. They don't think about putting the residents first. They don't think about designing services. They don't think about those critical messages. They don't think about meeting people where they are. But all of these principles that you talk about are. be applied in the government space as well. And, this is one of the main reasons I've been staying focused in that sector in my work is because I see this missed opportunity of what citizens really want and government kind of missing this mark in service delivery.

And, cities aren't even, thinking about chat GPT yet to provide services and yet. You know that those are the tools that the residents want to be using when they interact with government. And so I hope , and you know, my listeners are from all over, but it, it's something that I'm really passionate about as far as storytelling, which I know is something that's core of your work and what you do is telling that story and getting it into the hands of people And government does great work. It's not just all bloat like people might be making you believe, especially local government, but government does not do a great job of telling their story or talking about that work and getting it back in to the hands of the citizens so that they understand and I think right now where people are questioning education systems and government and democracy. That storytelling is critical. And so no matter the industry, this is exactly what you talked about and, where we're going and people like you at the helm who get this are our future.

Sherice Torres: Oh, thank you. There's a, a woman I'd love to introduce you to, a dear friend of mine from Google. Her name is, Dr. Maya Shanker. She. Happens to have a podcast called A Slight Change of Plans, and she is a behavioral scientist, so she brings her work to Google, helping maximize advertising. But her, one of her earliest roles was the Chief Behavioral Scientist for the Obama administration in the White House. And one of the jobs she did is exactly what you were talking about. How can we both better communicate services that are available to citizens and get them to take them on? So, for example, I'm not gonna get the story right, she tells it much better than I do, but she talked about, um, um, unemployment benefits, and you can talk about, uh, the words matter. So instead of calling someone a, a welfare recipient, you can call them a job seeker. Just that one. Change in language that highlights what's important to that person and who they really are. Stickley increase the uptake in terms of email or even direct mail communication for these mission critical services.

So putting your customer regardless of who that is, whether it's a business, an individual, a local citizen, a national citizen, putting their needs at the center and using language that satellites what they need. How they want to see themselves makes all the difference. And when you talked about local government and the services they provide, it really reminded me of Maya and the great work that she does and talks about on her podcast.

Language Matters.

Dana Berchman: Absolutely. one example I thought of was, the city of Denver, deployed a chatbot on their website. And the number one issue that came through that website was people that had food insecurity. They were either looking for food or shelter.

And so, in my mind, if these disproportionate populations can figure out how to use these tools, anyone can right? At all levels of government or public officials, people running for office who really are having trouble getting. to resonate or using words that land. And I think we all know after the last election with so much information and misinformation and, and so many different platforms and places like TikTok, where people are spending their time more and more and and getting their information there, what you say is so true. The people side, the human side and the words matter. And so how can we take those tools and the stories that we know how to tell and have a meaningful impact? That's what this is really all about. and I know that that's where your work has centered to, and storytelling is always been such a huge part of. My career and, what that looks like might not be, and isn't what it was 20 years ago, we're used to being in disruptive industry where. in my early days I hired a camera person and a writer, and then all of a sudden I was holding the camera, And so that change is what makes this work so beautiful, right? And at the center of it all is still the people the story and the words. And so I have just loved this conversation with you for so many reasons. Personally, and also because you are someone I admire so deeply, professionally, and you've just given me so much to think about and I hope our listeners as well. And so what, what does future Sherice post sabbatical look like a year from now? Tell me what that vision is.

Sherice Torres: Oh, that's such a great question. there are still lots of things that are uncertain. What I can tell you is SA year from now is fully aligned with her purpose. I will be whatever role I choose to take, it will be where my personal values align deeply and directly with my professional occupation.

Future be a writer. Something that I've shrunk myself for a number of years. I love writing. I think I've been told I'm pretty good at it. I kinda like it, and I have not just a book, I have multiple books in me, but for years I always thought, well, who are you to think you could teach someone this? Or how could you possibly do that? You're, you're far too busy, or who would care about what you have to say? What I'm learning is that while the response to my writing response to my book would be fantastic, that's not the point for me. The point is I have a story to tell 

through a lifetime of experiences, personal, professional, spiritual, educational, and I am the only person on this planet that can tell that story. And so for that reason alone, I am worthy of telling it. So Issa, a year from now will have written a book. Might be crappy, it might not sell, but I will have written it because I have a story in me and I've let the voices telling me that you are not worthy. Who do you think you are? Hold that book back for almost 10 years now. So I'll be in a job that aligns with my value. I will have a book. I will continue to be writing. And my hope is I can keep telling stories for the rest of my life, regardless of what that looks like. Entrepreneurial, in the public sector, in the private sector, storytelling is what brings me to life. I believe it's my gift and I will no longer shrink that light to make anyone else comfortable .

Dana Berchman: I love it. I love it. I can't wait to read your book. I adore you. You're so wonderful. Thank you for taking the time, and I just so appreciate you and can't wait to follow the rest of your journey.

Sherice Torres: Right back at you, Dana. This is a pleasure. I'm so excited for you in this next journey you are going to be and are amazing.

Dana Berchman: Thank you.