Beyond The Threshold: Black Voices in Media
Beyond the Threshold is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by award winning sound editor & producer, Sidney Evans.
This show is dedicated to interviewing black professionals in the media space in variety of roles, highlighting the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.
The goal is to build a platform that connects and supports those established in media, while also inspiring those looking to break into the industry.
Beyond The Threshold: Black Voices in Media
Ep. 1: The Essence of Resiliency w/ Ashley J. Hobbs
Text Beyond the Threshold w/ your thoughts or questions!
In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, host Sidney Evans celebrates the journey of Ashley J. Hobbs, a three-time NAACP Image Award-winning podcast producer, writer, narrator, and voiceover artist.
In this episode they discuss:
- Ashley’s childhood aspirations and attending women's college.
- Transitioning from being fired to juggling multiple opportunities in different cities.
- Early experiences at Essence and the resilience that fueled her passion for writing and audio production.
- A leap of faith that lead to working on Holding Court w/ Ebony K Williams.
- Her authentic approach to building meaningful relationships.
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So the blessing of working at Essence was because of the team that I worked with. We were all learning at like lightning speed, but there wasn't a whole lot of time to like sit in it, because as quickly as I was thinking like, oh my God, there's so much I need to learn, there was something else I had to do in order to learn the thing.
Speaker 2:Tune in as we give flowers to black men and women making waves in the audio industry. I'm your host, sydney Evans, and this is Beyond the Threshold. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to Beyond the Threshold. I'm your host, sidney Evans, an award-winning audio editor and producer. For those who don't know, this show is dedicated to interviewing Black men and women working in the audio industry, while highlighting the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.
Speaker 2:I will introduce our guest shortly, but first and foremost, I just want to say I can't believe I'm really here. This is the first official episode. Hopefully you have listened to episode zero. In the teaser, which I have already released, we can get more familiar with the concept and the premise from the show from my perspective, as well as a little bit about my background. But for the first time today you'll be hearing the voice of someone else. We're going to have a great interview in store. We're going to get into the nitty gritty, but just thank everybody for listening and I hope you continue to support and very grateful to have you all.
Speaker 2:So to introduce our guest, just to give a brief bio, she is a three-time NAACP Image Award-winning podcast producer, writer, narrator and voiceover artist. She's produced with DCP Entertainment, essence, Warner Music Group, interval Presents, spotify and more. She currently leads production on shows like Holdin' Court with Ebony K Williams, which was the winner of the 2024 NAACP Image Award for Outstanding News and Information Podcast, as well as the Tour Ray Show. Her short fiction has been published with Midnight and Indingo, and she most recently narrated Delaina RA Dameron's literary debut, redwood Court. Not only did she start out as a colleague, but she has turned into a friend of mine, and I was thrilled when she agreed to come onto the show. So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce to you all Ashley J Hobbs. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Hey, thank you. Thank you for inviting me, Sydney. This is dope what you're doing.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. We've been connected for some time and it looked like there were going to be moments where we potentially had the opportunity to work together. It hasn't happened quite yet, so it seems like this was just the perfect moment for us to really get into the nitty gritty of things and collaborate and do something together, so we're just going to jump right into it. As I mentioned, I've known her for quite a few years. I'm more familiar with the stuff she has done more recently, but I do not know too much about her background. Do not know too much about her background. So, ashley, if you could just share that you know where you grew up, where you from. Like what was young Ashley? Like where were your passions, you know, and interests at a young age? I'm curious to know. I'm sure everyone else is as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man. So yeah, I grew up in central Jersey, in a town called Piscataway, which is, if anybody's familiar with New Jersey, you know, like Rutgers university has their biggest campuses um, right in Piscataway slash new Brunswick area. So I grew up there. There were different phases in my life, right? So there was a phase where I wanted to be an R and B singer, cause you know I was listening to the people at the time, right, so it was Whitney Houston, mary J Blige, mariah Carey, all of them. And then I wanted to be a firefighter for a smooth minute. I wanted to be a ballerina. It was like all these different things Like I don't know, it's just like random things. Once you saw it then you're like oh, I think I'm interested in that. I saw the 96 Olympics and I saw how the US team truly brought home all the gold medals and I was like I want to be a gymnast. That lasted for a couple of summers, but it was a thing that I did as a kid.
Speaker 1:But I think the most enduring thing was always being a writer. I didn't know what it meant to be a producer or anything like that at the time. I just knew that I could like write stories or put stories together some sort of way, and then that started to evolve through the years. I always sort of like wrote little short stories and stuff A lot of them. I didn't finish. I didn't start actually finishing my writing until I got older in my thirties, but I was always writing. And then it evolved into actually like figuring out what that looks like in terms of like content production and then audio production. A few years ago, when I started working with Essence- Okay.
Speaker 2:So I think the curiosity you had just for you know, exploring those different things is like a great mindset to have. I know a lot of uh, when people kids are younger, they're into so many things and want to try so many things and unfortunately, a lot of parents kind of like suppress that and try to like reel it in and I think, as a kid like you kind of got to just let them go and just try and explore things. So, um, it's good that you you know it doesn't seem like you had anyone who tried to like eliminate, eliminate that from you, because I feel like a lot, of a lot, you know, when that happens you don't end up honestly doing the thing that you love to do. You kind of just go with what people say are more practical and you kind of kill like those creative juices and that creative energy. So I'm glad that was not the case with you.
Speaker 1:It actually kind of was the case. So a part of my growing up was I was raised in like the Pentecostal church, apostolic church, whatever, which dependent I mean no, not dependent like it is a very strict denomination of Christianity, and so there was a lot of things like, even as a child, like it is a very strict denomination of Christianity. And so there was a lot of things like, even as a child, like I was very interested in movies and TV and all of that, wanted to be an actor, all that kind of stuff, and it was always like, oh, like that's bad, that's a sin, right and so. Or like Hollywood or Broadway, all of that is like the devil's playground, like those sorts of messages, right, and so reading was fine and I could write all I wanted. But to actually start to go after opportunities when I got older, it was difficult at first until my family left the church that we were in, and that wasn't until I was 30.
Speaker 2:Wow Okay.
Speaker 1:And I'm now 38. So over the span of eight years, I've been able to become like this creative person, who's like producing podcasts and being a voice artist and like you know what I mean Like I performed a monologue on stage last year Like all these things happen in a span of eight years. So it's like all this arrested development and then, in years of this, this like creative growth.
Speaker 2:OK, so we're definitely going to focus more on the eight year period a little later in the episode, but I'm just curious as to like so with the first, within the first 30 years, like what was the first like thing you pursued or you decided to like do as a, to like provide for yourself, like once you became an adult pursued, or you decided to like do as the, to like provide for yourself, like once you became an adult.
Speaker 1:So I went to a women's college down kind of close to the Jersey shore, and I remember I was part of a group called Wild, which was the women in leadership development program, like so, all of undergrad. I was part of that program and I was really active. And so then the provost of the college said to me you should stay, get your master's degree and be a grad assistant that runs the Women in Leadership Development Program. And because I didn't necessarily want to go home right away, because I wasn't sure what I would do, I stayed, got a free master's in business administration. I wasn't even interested in an MBA, but I was like I need to figure some other things out.
Speaker 1:So that grad assistantship, I think, was like my first sort of like okay, I guess I could do this. This is something that my family will understand, it's not too far left. And yeah, I don't have. You know what I mean. I have to do all this explanation. And so when I was finished with the program, with running the program and getting my MBA, well, first of all, it was also a smart move for me because when I graduated, I graduated in 2008. The bubble burst and all the things, and it was no jobs, blah, blah, blah. So I was like I might as well just stay and get another degree, because there's nothing out there.
Speaker 2:Right, right right.
Speaker 1:So when I finished the MBA program it still took a little while for me to find a job. And it was so funny because people were like, oh, you have an MBA, you're going to find a job making $60,000 right out of school, no problem, that was not the case. After that it took me a couple of years to find a job. I was an adjunct professor for a while. I taught developmental English at a local community college. Oh man, then I was an executive assistant to a dean at that same community college. So these are all things in like academia that you know my family is not going to question. I'm making decent money at home. I'm not going to New York and LA and all the place. You know what I mean. But I got fired from the executive assistant job because I was. I was not doing my job.
Speaker 2:You was not built for that.
Speaker 1:I wasn't. I said like, of the different times I got fired, I deserved that one because I was just on Facebook. I'm not even going to hold you Like I was on Facebook. I just was not into being an executive assistant and I just, you know how, you just know you don't fit someplace and you're trying to make yourself fit, but it just doesn't work. From there I don't even know. I was like Googling, trying to find places that like were doing work with black women in any kind of way, shape or form, and I ended up working at a nonprofit in Crown Heights, brooklyn. I did that for like a year and a half left that. Then I worked at Bloomingdale's. I was all over the place. I was all over the place. Then, after Bloomingdale's, I moved to DC and I worked at an education tech company for a little less than a year.
Speaker 1:Now that one I got fired from and there was no, truly no, just cause Cause, like all the students were, I had rave reviews from all my students and it was just like no explanation. And then that led me to. You know, I was depressed for like two weeks. I didn't like really leave my apartment because I'm like I moved down here and now. I don't have income except, you know, unemployment, but thankfully, like, my parents helped me out, you know, like my car note helping me to make rent and all that and I just felt like that was this was the time. This was the moment I feel like was very defining for me.
Speaker 1:I don't think I would be, I don't think that I would have been able to do all the things that I've done to date, over these last eight years that we talked about earlier if I didn't make the choice that I did in 2018 when I got fired from that job, because I was like I'm going to use what little money I have and some credit cards and I'm going to try the things.
Speaker 1:It just kept coming to me. Production kept coming to me and I was like I got to figure this out. So I was like, let me see if I like live event production. So I volunteered at the American Black Film Festival down in Miami, barely had the money to go right, I didn't have money for the first night, so I slept in the airport the first night and then the next couple of nights I slept in a hotel room with like three other girls, so we didn't even know each other and I worked the event. It was cool, you know. I met a lot of really great people, learned a whole lot about the film industry. But I realized, like live event production is not for me, right, but I'm glad that I had that experience but the seed was already planted.
Speaker 1:I was like there's something in this kind of space. It's just not this thing, right. And I remember an old sermon from like TD Jakes, and he said he was talking to his son because he was his son, was about to go to school, I think for music or whatever. I think he asked his son like why are you not? You don't seem like you're excited, or whatever. And his son was like, in so many words his son was saying like I'm not sure if this is what I'm supposed to be doing and I don't want you and mom to waste your money.
Speaker 1:Td Jakes said to his son, if this isn't the thing, it'll be the thing that leads to the thing, right. And so I feel like that's what was happening with me was like live event production wasn't the thing, but it was one of the things that led to the thing. And so came back to DC, signed up for a television production class at the local like TV station and then I forgot that I had applied for an advertising production fellowship in New York City. I got that at the same time.
Speaker 2:So Tuesday nights, so you're doing both. Everybody has a story and they lead, you know, bridges that they had to cross and moments, but I feel like we still kind of early on in the story. You done went through some stuff.
Speaker 1:No, for real. Because I was like I want to do both and I was like I have the time because I got fired. I don't have a want to do both and I was like I have the time because I got fired. I don't have a full-time job now. So Tuesday nights I was in DC at my TV production class. Then either Tuesday night after the class or Wednesday morning I would drive home to Jersey, take a quick nap, then take the train into the city to gray advertising and then go do that whole thing to gray advertising and then go, you know like do that whole thing and then at some point in the week I would drive back to DC. And I did that. I think it was eight weeks I had to do that. And I look back on it now and I'm like, bro, how did you have the energy? Like that's crazy, that's really crazy.
Speaker 2:I was just that was going to be. That was like what was in my head. It was like when you're going through it you're like yo, I'm crazy. But then you look back you're like, yeah, I was still crazy, but it was a level of appreciation, Like I kind of did what I had to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To make it honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean like again, I learned a whole lot from those two experiences. I definitely knew that advertising production wasn't for me, but I gleaned so many things that actually ended up helping me in my writing, helped me in content production, even for when I started working at Essence, Because when I started working at Essence my title was digital production, but it was understood that it was the podcast network. It ended up that I started writing articles for Essencecom.
Speaker 2:So it's like things that I learned in the advertising fellowship totally applied to how I wrote those articles and, like SEO and like all these different things that I never would weren't necessarily right on par with what you wanted to be doing, ultimately did end up being very helpful down the line for you.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, exactly that. So, yeah, I mean I did that. I ended up having to move home. Almost I think it was like a year to the date that I had moved to DC. About two and a half, three weeks later I ended up having emergency surgery. Nobody knew I was going to have to have surgery, so I was down for like a month and a half, I think, and it was actually really bad.
Speaker 1:I was on a walker, then I had a cane, it was just like a whole thing and I was like, well dang, this is messing me up, because now my unemployment had run out, I'm back at home, I have bills that I have to pay and I don't have any income. And I forgot that earlier in that summer I had applied for basically I forgot what my title was, but there was a playhouse in New Brunswick where people came and did stage plays and I applied to be a ticket taker there and literally a few weeks after my surgery I was still on a cane but I was able to walk upright and all that kind of stuff. It wasn't too bad. They reached out to me and wanted an interview. So I remember I had my friend drive me over there and I was like I got to leave my cane in your car because I don't need them saying I can't have this job. And it was something like I don't even know if it was $12 an hour, but I was like I just need something that's going to keep me above water financially so even if I have to pay the bare minimums on everything, at least I'm not getting behind. And then the other part about it too not to make this too long, but the other part about it too was this was a job where I could sit down. I didn't have to be standing and moving around and all these things, because I had had surgery on my stomach and I was thinking about it. I was like I need a job where my body can heal and I don't have to be doing a whole bunch of strenuous work so that eventually I can start applying to like production jobs in the city this, that and the third. So that's what ended up happening. I ended up working that job.
Speaker 1:I learned again. I learned so much from the playwrights, so much from watching the plays, so much from watching the crew come in and set up the sets and all of that kind of. I learned so freaking much. And then, five months to six months later, a friend of mine was like hey, I saw that you had posted on Instagram you were looking for a production work. This and a third Do you want to be my associate producer for Essence in a couple of weeks? Because I may not be able to make it whatever. So, long story short, I went to Brooklyn that was the day they had Alicia Keys cover shoot. This was 2019. The connections I made that day I want to say that it was either April or May of 2019. The connections I made that day got me a full-time job at Essence by July 1st of the same year. And then that was like truly the start of my production journey.
Speaker 2:That's, that's that's like I said that's a lot, but you know it's, it's a I think it's a lesson to, like I said, just, you kind of do what you got to do to get to where you want to go, and also into like, if you, if you think you want to do, pursue something, you try it and it it. Like I said, it's not exactly on par, I feel like a lot of people would just okay, you'd like you do the live event production. It's not for you, it's like, oh well, it's not immediate, let me go do something. But you didn't. You knew it was still within that realm, but you maybe just had to pivot a little bit. And I went through similar experience as well.
Speaker 1:Um, but like, did you ever have like a moment where you, where you did think like, well, maybe, maybe this isn't for me, of course, like at all, because, like I'm trying to remember if I felt that way? I think the only times I might have felt that way is if I felt like the money wasn't coming quick enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I mean I definitely went through that and I was going to say just a little bit later for the show, but like, all right. So before we get to the, to the essence stuff, and you're building upon that, I feel like this is since you just brought it up and so like, do you feel like the work we do in audio and just the medium in general is like extremely undervalued? But when, if you go, go to an event and there's no music, like there's no, the energy is gone. If you watch a movie and there's no soundtrack, there's no special effects, like it's flat, like to you. Like there is a story but you don't, you're not connected to it.
Speaker 2:So just you know, in your experience working in the industry, like you know what people are willing to pay for, you know, uh, engineers, or you know, let's say, making a short film is like you want all the top camera equipment, whatever, but you throw peanuts at, you know the budget for the sound and then when you're, when you're, you're, you're, your film is, it doesn't connect. You're like what happened? Like you didn't check all the boxes, you didn't value what you were supposed to value. So do you feel like the audio medium and the people that work in the industry are undervalued in a general sense.
Speaker 1:I would say I would say yes, in, in, in, like a majority of the spaces. Yes, it's undervalued, it can all, it can almost be intimidating Cause it's like well, man, if I want to stay in this, then maybe I should lower my rates a little bit, just so I you know what I mean, like, and then it's like but, man, I have all these years of experience and this stuff takes time it does it takes time, like me as a producer, and it's so funny because people are like, well, what does a producer do?
Speaker 1:and I was like, well, it depends on the producer. You ask, right?
Speaker 2:so I'm glad you said that too, because that's another question I was gonna get you. I work in the industry and I've had to find myself trying to really hone in and narrow like what in the most simplest form. If I was to describe it to someone like what do they do so from your, from your experience and your perspective? Like, in the most simple way possible, a producer does.
Speaker 1:I can't remember who we heard say this, but it was while I was at Essence, cause I remember me and my executive producer at the time, tiffany Ashite. She's now like, I think like global director over at ACAST now, but we were both in the room and someone said something like I'm an organizer of chaos, and Tiffany was like I'm going to use that because that's exactly what we do as producers, like we organize the chaos. And Tiffany was like I'm going to use that because that's exactly what we do as producers, like we organize the chaos. And I, yeah, I think like, in a very like simple way, that's what a producer does. But I think, like, depending on what your skillset is, there are some producers like how I was early on, I didn't touch any of the engineering or editing. All I did was the pre-production. I was on the recording to make sure it went well and communicating with the host of the show or whatever to make sure that they're getting all the things they need to get.
Speaker 2:Sticking to the script.
Speaker 1:Right Writing the script for them.
Speaker 1:Doing the edit notes and working closely with the engineer and the editor and stuff, then uploading the episode, writing all the copy for the episode and then keeping us on our schedule for however long the season is going to be Talent booking, finding talent, keeping up with them, getting them signed releases, making sure they have everything they need for their equipment and all of that stuff. But then there are producers who do everything which I'm just like God bless you. You know what I mean. Like I always tell people, like when I'm up for a role or a gig or whatever I'm like look, I'm a rough cut editor. That is not my full ministry. So I just want you to know that upfront Cause if you're looking for somebody who both edits and produces and you trying to get them for the price of one, you're not going to get that with me and even if you, and even if you could do it, you know what.
Speaker 2:You know what their budget is. If their budget is saying you need to produce and don't do anything technical, then that's what you do yeah, but if the, if the, if you know the amount of what you'll be doing, if you're going to be compensated for it right, you know and you have the skill set. You know as well as I know that they're going to hire one person to do three different people roles. They'll do it if you let them.
Speaker 1:So you got to draw that line in the sand definitely yeah, and I and another point to all of that, including, like you know, how undervalued audio professionals are. What we started to see in, like I would say, like 20. You know how undervalued audio professionals are. What we started to see in, like I would say, like you know, like 2019, because that's when I came in, so that's when I really started to see. It might've started earlier than that, but like 2019, 2020, the top of 2021, it was all of these Hollywood executives coming in and running audio production divisions or audio houses, podcast divisions and everything, and they're running it like it's Hollywood.
Speaker 1:And I'm like that's not what you know. What I mean. Like making podcasts. It's not the same thing, and I don't understand all the ins and outs of all the business and you know, whatever. But I do believe that some of that is part of the reason why it's so hunger games right now in podcasting, you know, because all these people came in, they're throwing millions and billions of dollars and they don't know what they're doing with it right you know they're putting it in the wrong places.
Speaker 1:They're not paying the people who are doing the most of the work. They're're not paying them fairly, you know. So yeah.
Speaker 2:So when you started working for Essence, um, and I always like to kind of relate things back to my experience and see if, if you know, it's, uh, consistent across the board Like when I started getting my first like okay, like this is my first, like this is this is real stuff, like this is like top tier production stuff and you, you have the skillset.
Speaker 2:But then you quickly realize, like there's a moment where you're like I can do it, but I'm not as good as I thought I was, think you're good. And there's a moment where it's like, okay, once you, once you get surrounded by other people who are your love, he was okay, I'm, I belong in the room, but I'm not to that level. So, like when you start working for essence, whereas there and it even might not be the um, the skill set, it's just like the pace at which things go, like, yeah, I can, you know I can edit, but if they need me to bang out of something in a amount of time and I'm like, oh man, I can edit, but I can't edit that fast, so, um, I'm going to have to pull an all-nighter to get it done and they might not know that, like you kind of try to have to get up to par with the speed and the efficiency of how they do things on that level. So is that something you experienced?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say so. The blessing of working at Essence was and it's so funny because, like it was one of the things that I always wanted to do I wanted to be a writer for the actual magazine and it ended up that I became a producer for their short-lived network. But working there, because of the team that I worked with, we were all learning in real time. Our executive producer, tiffany. She had produced podcasts and stuff, but, if I'm not mistaken, I don't think that she had ever like helmed an entire network. So we it was. It was four shows that were already built and then I came on to help build the fifth show, which was one for like Gen Z or whatever the case is, and we were all learning at like lightning speed. So it would be like from the time I hit the door, say, I got there at 10 o'clock, 1030, we were working nonstop. Sometimes we truly did forget to eat because we were working nonstop. We had to record this, we had to go set up for that. We're making sure the newsletter went out right Because we were doing some of the digital content.
Speaker 1:I had to hurry up and write an article to go with this that could go on the dot com and there was a lot of grace for like mistakes, and I definitely did feel like, oh, wow, there's so much I need to learn. But there wasn't a whole lot of time to like sit in it, because as quickly as I was thinking like, oh my God, there's so much I need to learn, there was something else I had to do in order to learn the thing I had to do in order to learn the thing. So it was well, I was there from July 28, 2019 to, I think, october 2020 is when we all got furloughed, you know, after like the pandemic hit and stuff like that. And yeah, there were.
Speaker 1:I mean, one of the main things that I realized that I did not know how to do until I got there and I learned was I was not good at juggling multiple things at once and dividing up my time, and I'm like, if I'm going to be a good producer, I have got to figure this out. And that was the perfect place to learn it, because I was working with people who handled me gently. They weren't dictators, you know what I mean, and I'm still friends with those people to this day. But yeah, yeah, I've, I felt that, but I didn't have time to like sit in it, you know okay, so you had, you had you had that experience with essence.
Speaker 2:so, like during like um, because you made a couple references to like, yeah, I work with this person and now here and I work, now you know I work with that person and they're now over there, like, what is what did that experience at Essence teach you about? Like, like, building and maintaining connections? Can you just speak a little bit about, you know, building connections?
Speaker 1:No, I'm not burning bridges with people and staying in contact with people and just, kind of like, continue to nurture those relationships and stay connected with people, as, as y'all you know, go y'all separate ways yeah, like, like I said, essence was like really like a blessing for me, because there was a whole lot of drama, um, that was all like in the news and stuff, like in 2020 and even like fairly recently or whatever. For the most part, I didn't experience any of that, because the team that I worked with was so tight knit, and so I think one of the things that I learned about like building relationships was like, let it be genuine, working on that team at Essence was the first time I felt like man. Wherever my executive producer goes, I'm going to go with her because I trust her that much. If she's working until eight o'clock, I'm going to work till eight o'clock because she was just that diligent and, like I don't know, when you meet really genuine, good-hearted people who are about their business, it makes you want to be that as well. It adds fuel to the fire that you might already have, and so that's how I felt about all of the people.
Speaker 1:I want to say what is it? Four or five of us, like six of us, still keep in contact to this day, and if it wasn't a genuine relationship, it would have fallen off, because I've had trouble with the whole idea of networking and I think that it's evolved a lot over time, because when I was younger and just coming out of college and stuff, it was very much like here's my business card, we should get lunch sometime, and I'm like this does not feel natural to me. This is weird, but one thing I can say about networking and building relationships and maintaining them is to develop a natural curiosity about other people. Like the more that I'm curious about other people and what they're doing and I get my mind off of what I need and what I want and what I want and what I want, I can see possibilities and I can learn from people and I can learn like oh well, I never thought about this. Or hey, you need somebody to do X, y, z. Even if I can't do it, I know somebody who can. You know what I mean? Like connecting each other.
Speaker 1:I feel like maintaining relationships is not just about like keeping somebody close so that you could potentially get something from them at some point. It's like how can I help? Or what's up with you, what's been going on? What are you into these days? I'm genuinely interested in you as a person and it doesn't mean you talk every day, all the time. Some people I talk to every few months. But you know that that connection is solid and it's there. And then I'll be honest with you. There are some people that I've worked with where it was so traumatic for me that I didn't mistreat them in any way. But I don't care if I'll never hear from them again. You know what I mean. I've actively decided not to keep that door open.
Speaker 2:I think that's the part of I hate the term networking because, like you said, it gives me the mind of here's my card and have your people call my people. You know what I'm saying. Type of stuff very comes off very like contrived and all that type of stuff. Um, but people always talking about it in the sense of obviously you want to be positive, so you would want to think that all the connections you make are going to be positive. The reality of sometimes you meet people and you're like if I would have that connection would have never happened, I would have been good. Um, so that happens too.
Speaker 2:Like everybody's not going to become part of your tribe. Everybody, you know everybody doesn't become like a close colleague or friend or somebody you can really really rely on, like there are different levels within that as well. So, moving on from essence, um, I think this is probably what the connection thing comes into play too. So correct me if I'm wrong. Like when you kind of start doing like your own thing. If that is correct, can you touch on that and like what that process was like?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so October 2020,. It's so funny because I was in Chicago visiting my partner at the time and I woke up and I was like, all right, let me get myself together and go like log in right for work, because I still was going to, you know, work and I was like, why is my password not working? Like nothing was working. And so I went on Slack and I messaged my executive producer and I was like, hey, my login is not working. But I am like you know, I'm awake, I'm here, I'm trying to do all things. She was like none of our none of our stuff is working. We're about to have a meeting and basically the meeting was like oh, y'all been furloughed.
Speaker 1:It was, if I'm honest, like look, essence has been an institution in Black households since forever, but I just felt like man, the way that they handled that and like layoffs and firings and stuff. I was just like bro, I'm taking notes just in case I'm ever at the helm of the business, because I do not want to treat people like this. Like you know what I mean, like oof, it was bad, but I gotta be honest with you. There was a part of me that was relieved, because it was like the pandemic took a lot out of all of us and I don't know that we all like a lot of like, we're still like reeling from it a little bit, but we got to keep going. You know what I mean. So this was October 2020. And I was just like okay, you know, we're going to be able to collect unemployment, all that. Whatever, I'll be okay, I'll give myself like a month or two to just like relax, come down off of all the you know cause, working from home and doing the volume of work that we were doing at Essence, that was a lot Like I was chained to my desk, you know, at home, and so I took some months to just not do anything.
Speaker 1:And then, in December, I signed up for Air Media. Signed up for Air Media because I was like, all right, let me figure out what it looks like to be an independent producer and put myself out there. So I signed up for Air Media sometime in December. I want to say maybe like the second to last week of December. In December, I want to say maybe like the second to last week of December, the first week of January I get an email from a man named Dossie McCraw who was an executive producer, or is an executive producer on Ebony K Williams' show, which had literally just started, I think, in like November of 2020. He found me through Air Media. So it was literally like a couple of weeks. I was like bro, god is crazy, this is good, hit me up.
Speaker 1:I got to be honest, I was very timid, but everything about the process was fair, it was equitable. You know what I mean. I didn't have to fight for the right rate and all these different things and I was like all right, this white guy is all right. You know what I mean? Like okay, cool, and I met Ebony and that was 2021. And I've been working on her show ever since.
Speaker 1:After that, I volunteered on a couple of shows and I worked on some other shows, got paid for it and everything. Great experience. But it was like everything happened progressively. You know what I mean. But Ebony's show was one of the ones that I said I'll continue to work on and I told her. I said I'll continue to produce your show as long as you want me to produce your show and as long as you're doing a show, because I had never worked on something before where Because your family.
Speaker 1:Sometimes they'd be like, oh yeah, they keep telling people I'm on the radio and I was like y'all got to stop telling people that because that's not what I do.
Speaker 1:And then in black households, anytime you ever do anything with a celebrity, they'll say you need to work with that Tyler Perry. It's so funny. But I said I would work on Ebony's show for as long as she wanted to have a show, because I hadn't seen anybody do a legal podcast. That was so down to earth and made you want to listen and learn more about how all these different headlines, the things that she was pulling out of them, it's like yo, this really could affect my everyday life. Let me tune in. My family was listening to it. My sister and my brother binged the show and I was like I think working on her show is what made me realize you have to decide what kind of producer you're going to be, because I feel like for a lot of us there's like a fork in the road sometimes where it's like are you going to be the kind of producer where you'll just do anything and most of it's probably going to be all the salacious stuff, or are you going to have like standards for yourself?
Speaker 2:Let me jump in real quick because I wanted to touch on that as well. I think there's kind of a gift and a curse. I'm like this is what I had in mind when I wanted to work in the industry. Like I'm being paid fairly, it's real, it's not corny, it's not something I wouldn't listen to if I wasn't working on it. Like I don't want to work on something. Then I tell people about it, go listen to it and I know, like this, they'll be lucky to get through an episode.
Speaker 2:So when you work on stuff like that, or you work with a team like that and get introduced to, it's like when you are presented other things, you you just want to realize how much you want to just say no to all the other stuff. But it's like I gotta find a balance between doing that and I want to actually get work, consistent work, and and continue to make a living, like you said. Like there's that fork in the road like do you, do you chase the bag? Do you, you know, only work on things that are interesting and exciting to you and everything in between, and I've kind of I've kind of dealt with that too. To transition to to the actual question like what do you do you look for, like you know, once you go freelance and you're doing your own thing, what are the things that you prioritize? So speak on that, if you will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean nowadays and this is the other part of it too, right, and I'm sure you would agree like, being an independent producer is very feast or famine, right? You have years where you're doing real good, right, you don't have to worry about nothing, bop, bop, bop. Then you have times, years or months or whatever, where it's like, okay, rent is going to be due, you know. And so there is the temptation to be like man, let me just take this gig, so I don't have to. You know, blah, blah, blah. And this gets into like I don't know, like the woo-woo of it all. But I really do feel like, the more that I look at it from an abundance mindset of like I'm saying no to this so that all the other things that are actually for me can find me and I could find them. The more that I do that, the more the opportunities start to align for me.
Speaker 1:So, like last year, I was flown out to LA to work on a show, worked on the first episode, and I think from the time I mean even before I got out there, I had the worst feeling about it. It just wasn't. It wasn't for me, man, and I was like I can't fake the funk for this. And so I had a conversation with the producers and I was like and the producers were cool people Don't get me wrong but I was like this show, man, it's not for me, it's not for me, it's not for me. And I remember on the call I said I can't do this show anymore. I was like so I'm fine with you paying me for the, because I think I worked out for four episodes, I had done scripts or something like that. I said because I produced the first two episodes. I said, cool, you can keep my name on it and everything. I was like, but take my name off of it.
Speaker 1:I didn't promote it nowhere, I didn't tell nobody I was working on it. It was just like no, this is not aligned, and that's what I'll say. It's not about being above something, or oh, this is not good enough for me, it was not aligned for me, and I was like I cannot keep taking gigs where it's not aligned and I'm miserable, because then it's like bro, I need time to recover from this now, because I didn't stress myself out working on something that wasn't for me, and so I really look at who's the person. That is the talent that I'm going to be working with from day to day.
Speaker 1:Are they collaborative? Do they show up on time? Do they treat people well? Do they have something to say, or are they just getting behind a mic and just talking a bunch of crap that I don't care to hear? If what is happening on this show is giving people true insight into something, or teaching us something, or allowing us to feel better than we did before we listened to it, I can be on board with that, and those are some of the things that I kind of look for. But if it's all this finagling and trying to pay me the least amount as possible and people are constantly coming in and then leaving the project and like it's a revolving door. Those are all red flags. Disorganization behind the scenes all red flags.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Absolutely. So we're rounding third, but it's a couple, a couple more points that I do want to touch on. So the work that we do, like we've already mentioned, it's a lot of work, whether you love it or not. Obviously, when you don't love it, it seems like more work. So what is what is your like routine? Like you need to at some point. You need to be able to to, to do it in a healthy, sustainable way. You need to be able to step away and say I'm not doing no more work today, or before you start working, you may have like a routine or a process that just kind of grounds you and allows you to do the best work you can do, and then, once it's done, whether you have like an unwinding process or whatever that looks like for you. So what for you like what? What does that encompass?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'll be honest, I'm figuring out what my routine looks like nowadays Because one of my previous contracts because it was a full-time contract I was able to structure things better because that was my main focus and the only other thing I was working on was Ebony's show, and then that show was on a hiatus for a long time. So all I had was the full-time contract full-time contract. Now it's. I'm working on two shows right. Then I have audio book narration. I'm also working a retail job. You know what I mean. So it's like all these different things happening, and so I'm in the process of like tweaking things to like really figure out what works. The good thing is that the two shows that I work on, even though they both release on the same day, the way that I go about the recordings and all that is totally different and those are on different days. So I know my Mondays and Tuesdays are for the one show and then for the most part it's like Wednesday, thursday, friday. Sometimes it's just Wednesday and Thursday it's for the other show.
Speaker 1:I am trying to figure out what's the sweet spot in terms of when I start working. Each day I feel like 9 o'clock, 9.30 is a good sweet spot. But sometimes I find myself starting to work earlier than that because I'm like you know how you have anxiety and you're like I just want to get some of this stuff done, so my brain isn't consumed with it. So sometimes I'm up as early as seven in the morning. But some of the things I do to sort of like ground myself is like I'm a tea drinker, so I like to have tea in the morning Every now and then I meditate, but for the most part it's like I'm journaling, whether I'm journaling my prayers out or just journaling like about what's going on with me so I can get that out. I will either read or listen to the Bible or a book and those, and then also I'm like tending to all my 31 plants.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw that in your bio. I'm glad you mentioned that we're not going to spend too much time but for those listening, you will not be able to see the video of this interview, but I can see her and she has like a whole family of plants behind her, so that checks out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's the way that I kind of like I'm tweaking it, but that's sort of what my routine looks like right now.
Speaker 2:OK, thank you for sharing that. In answering that question, you mentioned that the voiceover and the narration work. Obviously, you know we follow each other on social media, so I saw that you were doing that and when I actually reached out to you in regards to this interview, you said you know you had an inclination to want to step out more of the forefront and come from behind the scenes. Obviously, this interview is shining more of a light on you directly, but I feel like the VO narration work. They may have been like your first foray into making a transition, so like how did that come about? And like how are you enjoying that process?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it came about because what was it like a couple years ago I was working on a project was like a couple years ago I was working on a project and I had to read an essay for it. It was we were putting together a podcast and we were doing like a chemistry read between the hosts and they had to listen to a very short essay and then respond to it. So I read the essay in dramatic form for them and the engineer I was working with, who's like 25 years in radio, he does voiceover and stuff. He was like Ash, you could do commercials, you could do audiobooks, blah, blah, blah. And I was like you think so? And he said yeah, and then a bunch of other people had said it to me over the years and I had forgotten that. I said I wanted to get into voice work back in like 2017. But he helped me put together a Weo demo reel and then a friend of mine asked me to do some voiceover for his YouTube channel. So that was like my first like real, you know work in that area.
Speaker 1:And then last year I recorded my first audio book for Penguin, random House, which was very cool because the book got chosen for Reese Witherspoon's book club pick, which was so cool, and I've just been auditioning, and all of that ever since I starred in two fiction podcasts. Last year I had a small role in another fiction podcast that just won Tribeca's audio selections, which was super cool. So it all kind of like, just you know, happens sequentially. It's not it's not happening steadily, but it's happening sequentially and I like it. I like it a lot because I get to perform, which is something that I feel like I always wanted to do since I was a kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say that sounds like it's full circle from when you were a kid and you, you know, you kind of, you kind of share with that, that with us earlier in the episode. All right, last couple things. So you mentioned air media previously, which is the association of independent radio and audio creators, something, something similar to that. It's a group I'm also a part of. What other like groups or communities, are you a part of that you found helpful?
Speaker 2:As far as presenting new opportunities, like I mentioned also earlier, continue to evolve your skill set, whether it's classes or seminars, whether in-person or virtual, or just connecting with other people in the industry as well, connecting with other people in the industry as well, because this, this audio, and this may be the case for media in general, but especially in audio if you're not, like, mentally strong, if you can't sustain, like, the waves and the ups and downs and the, you know, seasons of certainty and it seems like even more seasons of uncertainty, you could go crazy. If you, if you don't have a, like a support system whether it's, like we mentioned, the group chat, people who are super, super close, or a more broad avenue to feel supported and all those type of things. What else are you a part of outside of Air Media?
Speaker 1:So I'm a part of a group called the Freelancers Hub. It's not solely towards audio professionals, but it's for anybody who's a creative, independent creative and they have all sorts of really cool things in Brooklyn, in different parts of the city sometimes too, where they have like legal clinics, so you could come with your questions that you have around forming your LLC or getting paid because somebody didn't stiff you all these different things. You can go get your headshots done for free, you can use any of their workstations for some hours per day for free, or you could pay whatever. They have all sorts of really cool events and workshops and stuff. So that's another thing that I'm a part of.
Speaker 1:But honestly, I feel like those are the only two groups. Air Media and Freelancers Hub are the only two groups I'm a part of. Everything else really is the group chats that I'm in. I'm in a group chat of all Black women who are in audio in some way shape or form, whether they're on the admin side or production side. Then I have my group chat of all the women who I work with at Essence and we get together every now and then and, yeah, I'm just kind of like keeping in touch with different people through LinkedIn sometimes, and then also through Instagram as well. So, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, thank you for sharing without. Just a bit of advice for people listening, like, yeah, just when I first got my start, I was in like facebook groups that's. I think that's how I got like my first paying gig. Um, just just, you know, obviously there are tons of platforms and like social media apps and you know all these different ways for you to you know, get information and learn, learn the ins and outs of the industry, or maybe not specific to audio, like you said, just for people who are creatives or independent producers, all those types of things. So I encourage you all.
Speaker 2:I kind of explored LinkedIn groups, but I haven't really dove deep into it, but I think that may be something for people to explore as well. So just always seek out those things that could potentially be helpful, no matter if you're like the in the beginning, middle or, uh, further along in your career. So, to end on a lighter note, I got a couple questions to ask. This is a podcast specific to the, the audio medium, so I just wanted to curious. Uh, you mentioned that you you went through your r&b music phase. I love r&b music, so these don't kind of be music centered questions, but I'm curious to know what your taste is, and I have in mind, like what some of your responses would be, so I'm curious to know if I'm like on the mark or completely off. So what is your favorite album of all time, no matter what genre?
Speaker 1:All right. So because I was born in the 80s and because I grew up in the church, the Winans family was very big in my house BB and CC Winans. Their Heaven album was one of the best things that ever happened to gospel music, I think because it was one of those albums that crossed over in a dope-ass way I don't know if I can say that about gospel music but in such a great way. Whitney Houston was singing backup. She just left her own tour to come and sing backup for her friends because she just wanted to be on tour with her friends and it was some of the best music. I feel like that came out of the late 80s. So I would say BB and CeCe Winans' Heaven album. I know all the songs.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give it a listen. I'm going to give it a listen. All right, moving right along. Who is your favorite music producer?
Speaker 1:Ooh, my favorite music producer is probably Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.
Speaker 2:They're definitely top five all the time. All right, last two.
Speaker 1:Favorite TV theme song. It's probably going to be moving on up the Jeffersons. That's one of my favorite TV shows.
Speaker 2:I love George Jefferson so much. It's catchy and if you happen to catch an episode and catch that theme, you'll catch yourself in the grocery store singing it. Word. So yeah, that's definitely iconic. And the last is favorite film score.
Speaker 1:Favorite film score. It's going to be wait, you said score, not soundtrack, because I'm, so, I'm like because I'm, if I'm gonna say score, if we're gonna say score, then it would be the prince of egypt probably prince of egypt.
Speaker 2:Okay, what about soundtrack waiting to exhale? I think that's the best one ever. So. I was curious and you and I and I feel like you probably have read the isn't, it, wasn't it a book first?
Speaker 1:it was a book first, but I was, I was young, I was, I think I was only like 12, um, so I didn't. I didn't read the book because I was reading, like you know, books for my age group at the time. But the soundtrack I mean Babyface is a freaking, phenomenal songwriter and just a persuader to get people on the album because, if I'm not mistaken, chaka khan didn't want to do it and he got her on there yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:I think that's not to go too deep, but I think that's one of the the like the best producers, songwriters, or combination of the two. Like you can get people to convince people, you have to be, you have to sell it to them. Like you know, they might, they may want to work with you, like you might want to. You might write a song that's like obviously a smash, and they're like yeah, I want to do that one. Or they can be like I want to do it. And then you're like but I have this other song that I think you should do too, and they're like I don't know if I'm. You know well, you can't get to smash if you don't do this one too. So you got to be a master persuader. But Babyface, you know, basically everybody you mentioned within this list are all legends. So I'm definitely in agreeance there, for sure. All right, I think we have. I think we're there. We hit on a lot of, a lot of great topics. You went through a lot of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate you sharing all that and giving all that insight, but, before we go, just share with the people where they can find you online on the socials, all that type of good stuff, and if they would like to connect with you, how can they do so?
Speaker 1:For sure. So my website is ashleyjhcom, so that's A-S-H-L-E-Y-J-Hcom. You can find me on LinkedIn Ashley J Hobbs. Let's see what else. Instagram Ashley J Hobbs. I'm on TikTok too, but it's just for me to watch things. I don't really post on there, but, yeah, I post about my shows. I'm doing a little series now on Instagram about being a producer and stuff like that. So, yeah, you can check me out there sharing.
Speaker 2:Uh, super, super grateful that you decided to hop on. Like I said, this is the first official episode, so I'm kind of at a loss for words like this is this, is this is really, it's officially a thing now.
Speaker 1:This is dope. It's a great conversation and I like the back and forth because you know sometimes people just ask the question and then be like, okay, let's move on to the next one. But I love the conversational aspect of this. So, yeah, congrats, because this is going to be awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is a good start. Yeah, thank you for joining and thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to soundbysitcom and schedule a call there. You can also check out the full list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media, my handle is soundbysitcom on Twitter and Instagram and I'm Sidney Evans on LinkedIn. Don't forget to follow Beyond the Threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next episode.