Ep.3 Exploring Creativity & Representation w/ Kacie Luaders

In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, host Sidney Evans is joined by Kacie Luaders,  a creator, arts advocate, sound designer and founder of Could Be Pretty Cool.

- Her journey from university, to live theatre to podcasting.
- Her first two podcasts, and her Spotify workshop experience for WOC.
- How limitations often drive innovation and creative problem-solving.
- The importance of representation in audio strategies for podcast marketing.

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Transcript

Kacie Luaders: 0:01

I believe that everyone's individual perspective is so important. Figuring out how to approach it from your unique perspective, you just have to kind of like carve that space for yourself within a given topic or genre.

Sidney Evans: 0:19

Tune in as we give flowers to Black men and women making waves in the audio industry. I'm your host, sydney Evansans, and this is beyond the threshold. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to beyond the threshold. I'm your host, sidney Evans, an award-winning audio editor, mixer and producer. For those of you who don't know, on this show I interview Black men and women working in the audio industry to highlight the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field. I want to thank you all for tuning in to another episode.

Sidney Evans: 1:03

We got another amazing guest on tap for today and, as I usually do, I'm kind of going to just jump right into things, but I do have a bit of a story before we get there. So in either 2021 or 2022, I was commissioned or to simply put, I was asked to speak at Black Pie Fest in Atlanta to lead an audio engineering panel. She had a panel, she was a panelist too, and she led the sound engineering panel, sound design panel, and I said, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to check that one out. That was one of the ones I had highlighted that I wanted to check out, and during the session I was like, okay, she's got, she got a unique sense of humor. Oh she, she knows her stuff, she's oh, she's creative. I was like, as she's going, I'm just like all these like interesting things you know, she brought up and kind of introduced and so I said, okay, I'm gonna follow up with her. I made a list of people that you know that I found interesting, that I wanted to to connect with afterwards. So when I got back I did that, reached out to her like caught on a quick Zoom, just introduced ourselves, what we do, just kind of get to know each other a little bit.

Sidney Evans: 2:26

First month she was providing like all these resources for creatives, whether it's audio or other other fields, and she posted a link about associate producer role. So I clicked on it and I was like I don't know, I kind of I felt like it was just like for me, like it was just like this is everything I'm looking for for the full time. It was very creative, it was edgy, like it was just like this is everything I'm looking for for the full time. It was very creative, it was edgy and it was cool. So I applied, forgot all about it. Maybe like a month later they hit me up, I interview and I end up getting a job. So if I, if all those things hadn't aligned the way they did, I would have never got that opportunity. So I said all that to say she's a great resource for people looking for jobs, looking for opportunities, and we're going to get more into that in the episode.

Sidney Evans: 3:09

But to give a quick background on her, she's a creator and arts advocate based out of Atlanta. She earned her degree in music recording technology from Hampton and master's in sound design from Savannah College of Art and Design. She participated in the 2019 Spotify SoundUp podcasting accelerator program and she formed the production company Could Be Pretty Cool, whose mission is to produce unique creative experiences to inspire community building through the arts. She has also served as a theatrical sound designer, arts administrator and speaker for local and national artists and cultural organizations, amongst a ton of other things that we may or may not get to throughout the course of the interview. So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce the guest for today, casey Lueders.

Kacie Luaders: 4:01

Hi Sidney, Thanks for letting me on your show.

Sidney Evans: 4:03

Absolutely. Thank you for joining. I saw you posted on your LinkedIn that you are in high demand for interviews right now, so I'm glad you were able to squeeze me in.

Kacie Luaders: 4:13

Oh no, it's not even it's. I think it's more of like everyone in the summertime trying to just push everything until Fridays and so Fridays over the summer, I'm just talking to people all day, so very happy that we're doing this. On what is this? A Wednesday, On a Wednesday, it is.

Sidney Evans: 4:32

I was going to say this is a Wednesday, so hopefully you're in better spirits than all the Friday interviews.

Sidney Evans: 4:37

It seems, for some reason, like you just mentioned, most of the ones you do on Fridays, it seems everybody's scheduling on Wednesdays for me. Most of the ones you do on Fridays, it seems everybody's scheduling on Wednesdays for me. So I feel like it's a good. You know, you kind of over the reality of the beginning of the week but you're not checked out enough towards the end of the week. So I feel like Wednesday is a good day, so I feel like I'm getting the best interviews out there. So hopefully this will stand out a little more than all the other podcasts. But, as I mentioned in the intro, you have done a lot of amazing things, specifically to audio, but from a creative capacity as well. So just wanted to kind of first start off early, like what was young Casey like and then how your educational experience and things kind of led up to you like going to college at Hampton and eventually Savannah Arts and Design, and kind of focused on like audio, music, sound design, all that type of stuff.

Kacie Luaders: 5:30

Absolutely so. Young Casey was a total weirdo, which probably should come as a surprise to no one, but I always loved music. I have seen old VHS tapes of me when I could like barely sit up but I was trying to like crawl towards the family record player or the tape player because I'm just like, what is that Like? How is that making these sounds? So yeah, I started piano lessons when I was five. Wasn't very good. Started guitar lessons when I was 10. Wasn't very good. Started guitar lessons when I was 10. Wasn't very good. Switched to bass when I was 14. Also, the pattern continues. So I wanted to be in music. I wanted to tour with groups. I wanted to.

Kacie Luaders: 6:18

Eventually, in high school, when the big superstar producers the Pharrells, the Timberlands, like were getting more attention, I wanted to be a music producer. And so I went to college for music recording technology. Because I'm like, yes, I too can do this, but you have to have talent to succeed in the music industry. Everyone Piece of advice number one.

Kacie Luaders: 6:45

And so I quickly learned I'm not a music producer, I'm not a musician, I'm not good at this, but I love sound, I love audio, and so I quickly moved to learning more about the engineering side and, through a series of bizarre events, the music department at Hampton was in the same building as the theater department and someone was just like, hey, you're in the music program, right, if you ever want to come and learn about, like, sound design for the theater, we're always looking for people to do sound. Like no one in our department wants to do sound for some reason. And so I was like, ok, we'll see what that is, we'll see what that is. And that was really my first like, oh, you don't have to do music to work in audio, but you can still be creative and you can still create. You know emotions and support stories.

Sidney Evans: 7:42

And so that, for me, was my first like, oh, I can be good at something in audio, it just doesn't have to be music. So, after your time in college and going through that experience, what was the process like for you transitioning into the working world? Was it easy? Did you have an opportunity right out? Did you kind of have to grind your way? Do this on the side while you work to provide for yourself? I know a few of our guests, including myself, kind of had to be able to do multiple things at once to try to keep the dream going. So what was that like for you?

Kacie Luaders: 8:09

Sure. So when I graduated, I mean, I was still a pretty stupid 22, 23 year old. So I ended up moving back home and I was working in the box office at a museum back in Michigan the Henry Ford Museum and I wasn't sure what my next move was going to be in audio. This is 2010 at this point. So we're just coming out of like crazy recession, and graduating with a music degree and a theater minor was not the move at the time. So I'm just kind of like, oh, I don't know what's happening.

Kacie Luaders: 8:44

So I decided to go back to grad school, which, as you mentioned, went to Savannah College of Art and Design in Savannah, and that was really where I had to like focus up like real fast. Like undergrad was a hot mess. Grad school, it is no like maybe I'm not going to go to class today because I party too hard. It's like, no, you're going to miss so much stuff if you don't show up. So I was showing up. I was learning from professors who were adult peers, who I, in another space, like might have been intimidated by, but because we were classmates and peers, you know, being able to see that I could compete with these folks, it was just a huge confidence boost, and so I would say it wasn't really until after I graduated from grad school that I had both the confidence and the desire to actually like, push and figure out what I wanted to do.

Kacie Luaders: 9:40

What I thought I wanted to do when I finished was I thought I wanted to work in film location sound.

Kacie Luaders: 9:48

So I moved to Atlanta in 2013. And I did get on a few sets here a few commercial sets for the Children's Hospital, a few web series, and I'm booming and doing these long days on set and quickly learned. I kind of hated that too. So that was another step in the figuring out what I didn't want to do journey Because, yeah, you got to be on those sets at like four or five in the morning and then you're just there all day long, anywho. So, yeah, eventually I started actually telling people here in Atlanta that I had a master's in sound design and you know I had some interest in theater and I done some live theater in undergrad, started getting a few internships, apprenticeships 16, 2017, got my first professional live theater sound design job at the Georgia Ensemble Theater in Roswell, georgia, and from there my career was like half still doing kind of like admin for arts organizations to like pay the bills and then doing live theater. Sound design throughout theaters in Atlanta.

Sidney Evans: 11:07

Do you still do like live stuff at all? I would assume you have transitioned. Maybe have transitioned, if not completely or close to completely.

Kacie Luaders: 11:14

Close to completely. I think what is going to be my last professional show here in Atlanta is a show called the Wash, which is at the Impact Theater right now, and I'm going to be doing some stuff at Emory. But yes, I am close to being fully finished with theatrical sound design.

Sidney Evans: 11:34

You don't think you'll like, once you officially retire, like there's always that urge, like people will reach out to you like, yeah, we got this opportunity. Would you ever consider like, if it's like such an amazing opportunity, amazing opportunity there's, like there's no way I can turn this, and would you consider it under them circles, under those circumstances?

Kacie Luaders: 11:49

there's a possibility. That's kind of how I'm back this year. I didn't do. I didn't do any shows last year in 2023, because I was like, yeah, I'm done. I did two shows in 2022 just because everything had been, you know, shut down and people were just starting to like reach back out again. But yeah, it's just a different type of time commitment than podcasting. I would say like we can do so much virtually with podcasting, with live theater, you have to be in the space, you have to be at the rehearsal, you have to go to the, you know, and so doing that in addition to doing podcasting, it's just like never stop working life, which I'm no longer about as I am continuing my journey into my 30s. So, yeah, yeah.

Sidney Evans: 12:39

Yeah, and we're going to get into. Obviously there's that when you're young and you kind of you got to like you really got to hustle, you know there's a season for us, like you just got to try to get as much done as possible, whether it's you know working two jobs or you know pulling all-nighters, or you know little bit older, that you got to strike more of a balance. And it's not about like not wanting to do the work, it's that so you're in the right space to do it efficiently and effectively. And I'll touch on that a little bit more as we get a little further in your story. But I do want to back up and kind of transition to to where you were doing the admin art stuff, to you know to make a living and you were doing live sound design, live stuff. When did podcasting come on your radar?

Kacie Luaders: 13:34

You know I've heard about podcasts and you know I had friends from, you know, the sound design program who were starting to jump into podcasts and really they were the ones who were telling me, like you know, the sound design program who were starting to jump into podcasts, and really they were the ones who were telling me, like you know, circa 2016, 2017, like you know, this podcast and stuff, like it's going to be really big, it's going to explode. And I'm not someone who listens to a lot of stuff for recreation, right, because you know we always got the cans on. I'm always doing something. I wasn't listening to podcasts at the time. I was like, okay, whatever.

Kacie Luaders: 14:06

So in 2019, one of the artistic directors at a theater that I've worked for before basically just shot me a DM and was like hey, I don't know if you do podcasts, but Spotify is doing this thing for women of color, but Spotify is doing this thing for women of color to like, basically, workshop and learn about podcasting. And you know, if this is something you're interested in, like you should, you should try it. So I applied again. I didn't know what I was doing or talking about, but fortunately, I would say because of my audio background, I did get in and so in I want to say it was August of 2019, went out to the Spotify headquarters in New York. It was myself and nine other women. We just kind of learned like crash course about so much about podcasting and kind of workshops, an idea for a pilot for one of our own shows. But yeah, I came back home and was like OK, cool, that's a great thing for me to know at some point and went back to my day gig and didn't think about it until 2020.

Sidney Evans: 15:18

So maybe, like a year later, was when you were like, ok, I'm going to apply what I learned at this accelerator and try to attempt to create something.

Sidney Evans: 15:26

So, so what was that first thing?

Sidney Evans: 15:28

Cause a lot of times in people's stories, cause I'm, I'm, I'm a big junkie on, like you know, biographies, documentaries, like learning the process of how people got to to where they were and, interestingly enough, like the thing that you that they blew up on, it's usually not the first, their first attempt at whether it's somebody who's honing over a record label.

Sidney Evans: 15:50

They might've signed an act that didn't sell anything, but you never heard about it. So you think you know, like the, the crisscrosses and the TLCs, like you, you hear about them and you're like, oh okay, this is their, like the first act that they signed and it blew up. It was like, nah, they probably had a lot of smaller acts that didn't work out and we're just weren't aware of it. But now, because things not because they're successful we think, okay, they just jumped to it and it just went from A to Z, just like that. So what was the first thing that you produced, and was that, in fact, the first thing that kind of got you on the radar once you made that transition in a podcast.

Kacie Luaders: 16:29

Sure, so the first original podcast that I made was like a three episode limited series thing, that. So, just to kind of step back a little bit, 2020, april 2020, got laid off from my full-time day gig because of the pandemic, and then at the time I was on like maybe four theater shows and of course, everything shut down, so I literally had nothing to do sitting in the house. Sitting in the house, but my alma mater, scad, they put out a call to do a virtual like alumni fellowship basically, and they were like you know we can run this fellowship, but you know we can't go on campus. So if someone has an idea, an alum for an art project or a media project that can be done virtually, you know you should apply. And during this time you know, in addition to pandemic, this was also the summer of, you know, the racial reckoning sitting in the house all day watching that it was just like I would like to do some sort of project about this, and so my pitch to them was a podcast called White Angle, where I had a white documentarian who had made a film about some sort of black injustice. So you know whether it was something that happened in the past, something that was current and I paired them with a black filmmaker and it was basically just a time for them to have a discussion. The Black filmmaker will watch the white filmmaker's movie and they could just have a conversation.

Kacie Luaders: 18:14

Because my, I guess, theory was, if you're in that world and making a film but you're not of that culture, you do definitely have a perspective as an artist. But what kind of like conversation can we have about it? Like no name calling, no shade, as just people to really like dive into what being a storyteller about a culture that you don't belong to actually means. And it was chill, everyone was respectful, everyone was, you know, walked away hopefully feeling like oh yes, this was a great conversation to have. So it was done sort of like an academic project in a way, wasn't released widely, it was just on like a little standalone website. But that was the first thing where I actually was like I have an idea, I'm going to pitch my idea, I'm going to find people to cast in this idea, I'm going to edit it, I'm going to publish it. That was my first podcast.

Sidney Evans: 19:16

Okay, so a word that's standing out to me is pitch.

Sidney Evans: 19:22

So a lot of times I just creatives, focus more on the creative and the technical, and obviously there's a lot of writing involved and but that's kind of you know, working in the thing. But the pitching part is like a whole different beast in itself, and I don't know if the stars just align for you properly or what, but it seems like once you enter things, once you have to apply for things, like it just works out for you. So is there something in particular that you learned or, um, that you found particularly helpful that has assisted you when you are presenting your pitches that are getting the responses and the and the leading to the opportunities? Or is it I don't know just a like your knack for storytelling? Um, there, obviously there's something there that you have that, um, other people could benefit from learning about or you highlighting. So I'm curious to know for myself, but I'm sure the listeners are curious to know as well. Like what, what is it about pitching that makes you stand out from the crowd?

Kacie Luaders: 20:28

So I would say pitching is definitely, it's a little art, it's a little science, it's a lot of luck. For every successful thing that I have pitched, or every successful program I've gotten into thing that I have pitched or every successful program I've gotten into, I guarantee you there were 10 or 15 rejections that I got beforehand or at the same time. So what I'm learning with audio specifically is I try to figure out first of all, like, who am I talking to? And if they were to give me money, support a platform, how is this going to benefit them the most? Because I mean real talk. No one's going to give you anything unless they're going to get something from it. And then the second thing that I typically try to do is I try to, like if I come up with an idea, I try to just do, you know, a little quick, little Google and see what other people have done about the same topic and then try to go in a direction that hasn't been approached before.

Sidney Evans: 21:31

You got to come over. You kind of try to come through the. It's like guerrilla warfare. Yeah, a little bit, you kind of see where like OK, this is, this is what they're expecting, so let me go off of that a little bit.

Kacie Luaders: 21:46

I've never thought of as guerrilla warfare, but I mean, I guess in some ways, yes, you know you don't want to pitch something that already exists.

Kacie Luaders: 21:50

But I also, you know some people, a lot of people, say like, oh, we don't need any more podcasts about this because they're already, you know, 100, 1000 out there. I believe that everyone's individual perspective is so important and so if you find a subject or a topic that, like everybody's already talking about, figuring out how to approach it from your unique perspective and in a way that other people aren't approaching it, you just have to kind of like carve that space for yourself within a given topic or genre. And so, yeah, figuring out how to do that is probably my next thing. And then I will say, you know, just trying to, I realize, if there's something with like applications and you got to write essay questions and you know people don't want to read a lot. So how can you say what you want to say, to grab the attention, to make the point as concisely as possible? I would say is a big thing to figure out, because they they not trying to read a lot.

Sidney Evans: 23:01

But the editing is the most important part, like you you've had like in order to make it concise and it's not just word vomit and, you know, make sure you're not overusing words or whatever like. If you you don't have to be the the greatest at the original idea, but if you edit it very well, you, you can present yourself in a much better light for somebody to absorb it and be concise and not check out what I'm reading. So I do want to share that. But you also mentioned carving a space for yourself, so we're going to jump ahead to you Heard Me Right which is? You mentioned your first production, but I think, like this one is the kind of the one that was OK, I got something, it was. It was accepted and appreciated more widely than the first show you mentioned, which was White Angle.

Kacie Luaders: 23:51

You said that is correct.

Sidney Evans: 23:53

OK, so you explain, like the, the, the idea for you Heard Me Right the process and like, I guess, the accolades of reception that you got from it. And what was it like? You know navigating all you know from conception to the production, to putting it out and marketing it, and you know, allowing people to consume it to where it was appreciated.

Kacie Luaders: 24:17

Sure. So yes, as I mentioned being a part of the Spotify SoundUp Accelerator, we all developed a pitch for a show, a podcast, and pitched that at the end of the program, and so the top four pitches in my cohort received funding to make a pilot episode of their show. We were not one of those top four so again, it was just kind of like, oh, this is great, you know, great experience and opportunity. Maybe at some point I'll do this show. But you know, back to reality. So this was another sitting in the house, 2020. Like when I had gotten back from the program, you know, I said you know, I'm going to try to make this eventually. So I got a couple of my friends together, did a very bare bones like scratch version demo of what you Hurt Me Right could be, and I put it away for months, didn't do any editing, didn't tell anybody. It was just like, okay, whatever. So, yeah, I'm sitting in the house. I was like, well, you know, okay, whatever. So, yeah, I'm sitting in the house. I was like, well, you know, edit this, I'll send it back to the folks at Spotify from the program. Really, I was just looking for notes Because, again, I don't know what a podcast was, and this was actually even before White Angle started. So I literally was like just bored coming up with ideas at the same time. And things started going in production later that year. But, yeah, I sent the demo and somebody got back to me and was like, oh, we like it. Like you know, we want to pick it up, but we're shut down for doing productions because you know, pandemic. And so they were like, if you can figure out how to do it, then sure we'll distribute it. So I think I would say a lot of my training in theater came in handy with the figuring out how to do it.

Kacie Luaders: 26:14

Part the show. You Heard Me Right? It is a art making podcast where we have groups of three working on a project together anonymously and then they come together and talk about it live for the first time on the show. And we knew that at the time we couldn't just like bring groups of people into a recording studio because pandemic. And so basically I was like, if we can't figure out how to do this outside, everybody 10 feet away, whatever Y'all got to remember, this is 2020, like June, july, when just everything was popping in the whole thick of it.

Kacie Luaders: 26:58

We didn't know what was going on. I was like, if we can't figure out how to do this safely, like I'm not doing it. And so it was a combination of like my team, myself and then Spotify for actually letting us like do it Whatever, like okay. So we found an Airbnb outside of Atlanta. We set up mics and everything like outside in the backyard and we have people come in like straight through the, the, the backyard. We recorded the episode like the first season. You hear all the ambience because you can't, you can't edit that out um, I want to, I want to.

Sidney Evans: 27:34

I want to pause because I want to. I want to highlight something. It's interesting how sometimes, like where there's lack of resources or the particular circumstances you in allow you to be more creative than you maybe would have otherwise. So just think about, for example, like the creation of hip hop is like, okay, well, uh, black people live in the city, in the city. Like, we can't, we don't know about how to play instruments, and even if we did, we don't have access to the actual instruments to get everybody to come in and record, do all this type of stuff. So it was like okay, well, we're just going to. You know, we all, all our parents, have all these soul and funk records. We're just going to sample them and then just add our twist to it and within that they birthed like the most popular genre of music that everybody thought was a fad.

Sidney Evans: 28:20

But look at it now. So the fact that you were able to be creative, to be able to get it recorded and done outside and then you can hear the ambiance, like that sets a whole different tone and mood to it than if you're in the studio and it's just silent, cause that kind of creates more realism. It kind of puts you in the space more, it's more immersive. So I'm sure that added an element that wouldn't have been there otherwise, had it, you know it not been pandemic if it would have been under no circumstances. So I just wanted to add that. Sorry to interrupt. You may continue.

Kacie Luaders: 28:52

Oh no, you're fine. I was just going to say like that's definitely like what I meant by like I think a lot of the live theater kicked in because there's zero money in theater. Like you will be poor everyone listening if you go into theater, and so that's kind of what I was used to. I was used to working with shoestring budgets. I was used to, you know, people like well, we can't afford this prop, so we're just going to have to take this thing and stick a feather on it and imagine that it's a chick. And imagine that it's a chick. You know, that's kind of a lot of the approach that I bring to my podcasting, which in some ways is like bad. You're not supposed to approach your stuff with a scarcity mentality, but you know it's more of like a resourcefulness to your point of having to figure out how to make it happen One day. I would like to not have to do that. So if anyone just wants to like write me checks to do things, I will accept that.

Sidney Evans: 29:46

An unlimited budget would be preferred, but we can make it work otherwise.

Kacie Luaders: 29:50

Exactly, exactly, like I would not complain. But yeah, figuring it out somehow is a superpower of many creatives superpower of many creatives.

Sidney Evans: 30:05

Okay, so was that what led you to you know, get all this like media and news coverage and stuff like that? I know you've been. You've been highlighted in a lot of things. You know me being, you know, the the curious and wanting to be as most prepared host that I can be had to do my research prior, and you have been highlighted in a lot of publications platforms. As I mentioned earlier, you're highly requested guests for other podcasts as well as this one. Is there something that was an area of emphasis that you wanted to get PR and coverage on the type of stuff that you're doing, or did it kind of happen organically?

Kacie Luaders: 30:39

I would say it was probably a combination of just the fact that it was like a Spotify show that certainly didn't hurt with the fact that it was something that was kind of weird and different. And so, if nothing else, I think people maybe checked it out to be like what is this? So yeah, I think it was. It was a combination of factors. So yeah, I think it was a combination of factors, but really, in some ways, I was just happy to again go from I have an idea to we're going to make the thing, to we're going to put it out, and then all the other stuff that came after was like bonus. But actually figuring out how to do it, I think, was the highlight for me.

Sidney Evans: 31:26

There's no other way to do it but to do it. So to fast forward a little bit to what you have going on now could be pretty cool. Was this during the time you heard me right Was this idea that you had at all Like, were you kind of making those putting it away, coming back to it? Or was it something like okay, I'm done with this, I've squeezed as much out of the Spotify produced you heard me right and it's time to move on to the next thing? Or was it something that you had kind of laid a soft foundation for and you knew that it would be something that a time will come where you have to focus on it?

Kacie Luaders: 32:03

Yeah, great question. Definitely more of the soft foundation. I went to a panel in Atlanta of, like, women in tech. I went for the free food, but I actually listened to the panel and all of them said something like you know, while you have your full-time job, that's when you work on your side hustle Like don't be quitting your full-time job. To like go ahead first into the thing that's going to make you poor and unhappy all the time, like build alongside your whatever. And so I was like, oh, that's a good point. I don't actually have a side hustle and I don't know if I want one, but I should probably have one. I think I'll start one.

Kacie Luaders: 32:40

So, yeah, I think December of 2019 is when I actually registered my LLC and again, I did not know what it was going to be, but I was like, yeah, this could be pretty cool. That's what it's called now. So I had the bones in place to be structured Again as an LLC. I did the business bank account. So I, on paper, was a business which, once I did get laid off in April 2020, and once things started happening, it almost was kind of like perfect timing, because the even the program that I worked or that where I was a fellow at SCAD, my school, they were like oh, you know, do you have an LLC? In order to provide, you know, funding and support, you have to be an LLC.

Kacie Luaders: 33:28

And I was like, oh, I just happened to kind of have one of those, I guess, and so it really wasn't until around the time all of this was happening where I was like, oh, I should probably like have a website, I should probably start getting the handles on the social places. So it was a lot of building the parachute. After I'd already kind of jumped out, and you know, to your point, after 2020, 2021, 2022, the opportunities started not being as plentiful. I will say, now I have this thing that I still own, that I now have some projects under, and so it was time to figure out how to actually leverage this into a business.

Sidney Evans: 34:16

Okay. So, yeah, highlight as far as, like, the how you laid it out to actually be a sustainable business. Break down what exactly is like the mission and the goal for could be pretty cool. And I guess, in explaining the mission, you'll get into the fusion of the audio storytelling and data analytics, which I'm extremely curious about, because that world is a bit unfamiliar to me as far as combining the audio and the data. So can you break that down?

Kacie Luaders: 34:47

Sure. So, yes, initially the mission was like keep letting corporate media people write us checks to make our own stuff, but that was not a sustainable business plan, and so what we do now primarily is we work on podcasts for organizations. So we're working on a podcast for Bard College, which is in upstate New York, working on podcasts for nonprofit organizations, and we really sort of shifted our business focus from just like let's make Casey's creative projects to let's figure out how to make podcasts a way for organizations to tell stories about their organization, collect research and data about their organizations, but then to be able to share that out in a way that isn't just like we wrote this report. That's in a PDF on our website. We're making data-driven content, and so that's right now what keeps the lights on peace. But we also now have an in-house podcast we produce Could Be Pretty Cool News which is a podcast that's all about creative entrepreneurship.

Kacie Luaders: 36:01

On the journey that we were on that we're still on Just met so many fascinating people graphics people, writers, people who do styling and fashion and everyone has like a different story, but a similar story when it comes to trying to stay creative and trying to stay in tune with, like what's happening artistically, but also trying to figure out how to write invoices and contracts and do taxes.

Kacie Luaders: 36:33

And so the entire premise of the show is just talking to folks either who are experts in the creator economy, academics, people who you know work in like ecosystem building spaces where they're collaborating with a bunch of creators, and then also telling narrative stories of different creators and how they got started, what they're doing, their views on just how this life can be sustainable for us all, maybe one day, and so that's like the passion project that I'm really enjoying right now. That's led to different opportunities. I wouldn't say from the podcast itself. Necessarily, we have a very modest audience, but people who do tune in you know, or know that it exists, can say like, hey, can you come teach this workshop? Or hey, can you come, you know, do this other thing. So it's been okay, it's been fine.

Sidney Evans: 37:33

So that's. That's. That's amazing. Two things I think is I'm glad you like, like this podcast obviously is highlighting Black men and women in the audio space specifically. Yours is more broad, from creators in general, which I'm glad because you know could be pretty cool. Uh, news, you need a cover art. Okay, you need somebody who can do graphic design. Obviously you have the audio chops and and I had the audio chops. So you know we cover a large portion of that in itself. But, um, people have a background in marketing. You have to market the podcast and not even just with our platforms.

Sidney Evans: 38:08

Um, whatever business you're doing, like you can't you have to be a media company now, like you're gonna have to have a creative storytelling aspect of your company now to like to merge them, to have all those people intertwined in one environment, one setting. I feel like it's beneficial for all. And then also, a lot of the times, like you're so immersed in your particular field. Like you, kind of everything is just like on your feet in your field. So you're, that's the world that you live, you're seeing all of that, but then you have to step out. It was okay. Well, if you're in constantly in that world, like everybody kind of knows the same stuff. To a certain extent, you got to step outside and connect with people outside of that, because that that's where you can present a lot of your value, because they aren't as familiar with that world. So it's a learning tool for them and it's an it's a teaching opportunity for you and vice versa.

Sidney Evans: 39:00

If you step out to another world, whether it's a teaching opportunity for you and vice versa, if you step out to another world whether it's, I don't know, finance or let's just stick with finance you go outside of that. Obviously, as someone who has their own LLC and their own company, that stuff is very important because the Uncle Sam don't play. So you know you want to manage your money well, you make sure you're paying your taxes, you want to make sure you dot your i's and cross all your t's and you know, by connecting with people in that world, you know they can provide system helpful things. You may not be able to, at a certain point, hire a professional to do all that on its own, but you can gain a lot, a lot of valuable information.

Sidney Evans: 39:37

Whether they have a podcast or in the content that they uh put out and share on their social media is tips that you can apply to your business. So you kind of have to expand your horizons and not to kind of just get stuck on the particular field that you're in. So I'm glad you have created that, so you're doing those amazing things with pretty cool and you've got a lot of support. One thing also that you created that I want to highlight really quickly is Wallacraft. Quickly explain it and what that experience was like.

Kacie Luaders: 40:09

Sure. So Wallacraft is actually the brainchild of one of my frequent creative collaborators, cooper Skinner, who, going back to like White Angle, going back to like white angle, being in a space in the entertainment industry where it's different people, different cultures, working on stories about different people, different cultures cooper, who is not a black person, was working on a narrative podcast that was a black narrative, a black experience, and there were so many specific settings that were like, you know, a red lobster in the hood or like girls twerking in a parking lot, where he was kind of like what sounds? Are these, Like what? This isn't something that's in a library, and so I thought it was kind of hilarious. But it also started getting more prevalent Storytelling as more diverse stories were being told.

Kacie Luaders: 41:04

It's like we need these sounds to exist or else we're not going to be able to make this work, and so that's where the idea for Black Wallapack came from, accessible and available to everyone to help tell Black stories.

Kacie Luaders: 41:27

So we spent two days in the studio with eight Atlanta actors and actresses, actors I think everybody's just actors now and we just were putting them through different scenarios. So it's like, you know, praising, catching the Holy Ghost in church and go, or you know, at a party, at a restaurant, and just got this really rich sounding walla that you can tell like, oh, these are Black people. And so the project is still very much ongoing. Actually, the one play that I mentioned that I did a couple months ago, I used some Black walla pack stuff in it it is a Black narrative and so, yeah, our hope is to identify other cultures or other ways to capture audio from groups who may not always be represented in stock audio and to have that content available so that, hopefully, as more of those stories are being told, we'll have the support and posts to be able to make them told authentically. So it's wacky but it's necessary.

Sidney Evans: 42:31

Very necessary. I'm glad you saw the need for that and made it happen, so it is available for purchase. How can people purchase it? Yes, you can go to Wallacraftcom is available for purchase. How can? Uh, the sound pack? How can? How can

Kacie Luaders: 42:43

Yes, um, you can go to wallacraft. com, um. Black walla pack and yes, is there. You can download a sample if you want to. You know, get get a little demo first. But yeah, our hope and goal with that again is to start representing folks in audio who often aren't represented right now. So stay tuned.

Sidney Evans: 43:06

I appreciate you, Kacie. Yeah, we've covered a lot, highlighted some things. Obviously, there's a lot to everyone's story, so we can't hit on everything in particular, but I do appreciate you sharing what you have shared. This is another full circle moment for us. Going back to my introduction to you at Black Pie Fest, and I'm glad you were able to join. But before we close out, how can people find you on all the things the website, socials how can they support what you're doing and anything else that you want to highlight that may be upcoming or on the horizon, and anything else that you want

Kacie Luaders: 43:43

Sure thing. So we're at Could Pretty Cool Cool mean, I think we're only on IG and threads sometimes, but LinkedIn very active on there Couldbeprettycoolcom. If you happen to be going to podcast movement in August, I'll be around, but, yeah, always looking for folks to chat with and, as Sydney mentioned, if I see opportunities that I think a creator could benefit from, I just slap it on up on my stories, because that's how so many things that I have received have come to me Somebody sliding a DM or somebody just posting and so I think paying it forward is definitely the move.

Sidney Evans: 44:28

So, yeah, All right, yeah, make sure you all go check out what she has going on. All things could be pretty cool and beyond. Once again, thank you, casey. I appreciate you joining me for today's episode. For those listening, I will catch you on the next episode. Super appreciative to anyone who's listened to this episode or previous episodes. And, yeah, I'll catch you on the next one. Thank you for joining us on today's episode.

Sidney Evans: 45:00

Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to soundbysitcom and schedule a call there. You can also check out the full list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media, my handle is soundbysitcom on Twitter and Instagram and I'm Sidney Evans on LinkedIn. I said dot com on Twitter and Instagram and I'm Sidney Evans on LinkedIn. Don't forget to follow beyond the threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next episode.