When Teachers Ask for More Than You Earn

Are your teachers asking for more pay while you’re still not paying yourself enough?

In this episode, Chantelle and Michelle dive into one of the most uncomfortable (and common) challenges studio owners face: navigating teacher pay requests without sacrificing your own income or the health of your business. This is an honest, practical conversation about boundaries, profitability, and leading with clarity instead of emotion.

You’ll learn:

• How to confidently respond to pay requests without feeling guilty or reactive
• Why your current wage structure might be the reason you’re not paying yourself
• A simple way to structure pay that rewards retention and supports studio growth

This is the kind of conversation that shifts everything, not just your numbers, but how you show up as a leader in your studio.

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📖 Full transcript + blog post: https://studioevolution.com/journal/s5-e3-when-teachers-ask-for-more-than-you-earn/

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Transcript

Chantelle Bruinsma (00:04):
Welcome to Your Studio Podcast, sharing strategies for studio owners. I'm Chantelle Bruinsma, here with Michelle Hunter, and together we're the CEOs of Studio Evolution, where for over a decade we've helped thousands of studio owners around the world from dance, music, acting, art, yoga, and pilates studios transform their passion into thriving profitable businesses. So if you're a studio owner, grab a cup of tea and settle in. You're in exactly the right place.

(00:34):
Hello, everyone. How are you doing? It's Chantelle here. And of course, Michelle is here with me today too, and welcome back to Your Studio Podcast. And we have got a doozy of an episode for you today. It's one of those ones that really gets you in the uncomfortable spots and that we're going to dive deep into it, right,

Michelle Hunter (00:50):
Michelle? We are. And today we're going into what to do when your teachers want to be paid more or too much. And it's very interesting topic when we know a lot of studio owners sometimes are not even paying themself a wage, right? So many,

Chantelle Bruinsma (01:10):
Many, many,

Michelle Hunter (01:11):
Many. Many, many, many, many. So this is a really uncomfortable but really appropriate conversation to have.

Chantelle Bruinsma (01:19):
Because there is this sense of quite healthy, righteous anger that accompanies this. And I'm sure you're not expressing it, right? As a studio owner, you're kind of suppressing it. But when you get a new hire come to you or maybe one of your current team say that they would like to be paid X amount and you're like, "I'd freaking like to be paid X amount." And you're not running the studio and carrying all the responsibility and doing all the things that I am. It's very difficult to reconcile your emotions in that moment because it plain sucks.

Michelle Hunter (01:57):
Well. We've all been there no matter the industry, but it is really emotional. It's really quite stifling as well. When as a studio owner and a business owner, you've put your heart, your soul, and we're not just talking about your time. We're talking about sacrifice, your family time, your family's been so involved with the business. So it can be quite shocking when that comes. And we really need to look at the requests and how educated they are, I think, Chantelle, because sometimes the requests can actually be unrealistic and sometimes they are warranted, but you really want to see if they are educated.

Chantelle Bruinsma (02:37):
Well, and everyone is entitled to ask.

Michelle Hunter (02:42):
Yeah,

Chantelle Bruinsma (02:42):
Understand. Everyone is entitled to want to earn what they want to earn. It is calibrating that with reality is, I think, the delicate dance that we do. And I know I've had a lot of clients come to me and say that they have had new hires come from potentially a full-time dance degree or they've come to some sort of operation and they have been educated. An organization is educated, "You are worth X amount per hour." And that is a lovely bit of education to receive. However, in a practical world, for many studios, it is utterly out of reach and utterly out of touch of reality.

Michelle Hunter (03:21):
And do you think there's a bit of a scarcity piece there, right? Because I know in a lot of our studio owners industries, they've also said to you and us, when they've said I've gone through this situation, it's like, "Oh, but this teacher is so hard to get. It's so hard to get a teacher in this region or that has that qualification or you don't understand she just came off this tour and this program and I just have to secure her. I just have to do it

Chantelle Bruinsma (03:43):
Now. She's a unicorn.

Michelle Hunter (03:44):
She's a unicorn." I remember talking to another student owner in the yoga and the wellness space and this very famous ex- sports star was doing some breathwork and it was just unrealistic. What he was requesting was actually triple of what a standard hourly rate was for an instructor under that award. So yeah, it is calibrating to reality and what you can actually afford to do and still keeping the lights on.

Chantelle Bruinsma (04:14):
Yeah. And that's, I think, a question for us to really get some clarity on together because what you actually can afford to do is worth us kind of digging into on what that actually means and what that actually looks like and having a deeper understanding around this. So as you guys know, we have looked at the profit and loss statements of hundreds and hundreds of studio owners with our clients. And when we are doing this, we are looking at what percentage of revenue does the studio spend on wages and salaries.

(04:48):
Now, what has been quite fascinating is that it has not been unusual for us to be seeing studios pay upwards of 70, 80, 85% of revenue out on wages, and that doesn't even sometimes include their own. Now, I want you just to kind of put them perspective like within that revenue that's coming in, we still have to factor in percentages for rent and for insurances and for profit. Advertising. Chocolate. There's all these very important things that we need to be factoring into the running of this business. And when you are saying yes to wages that are disproportionate to your revenue, it's impossible for this business to thrive and to be financially sound. And so it's a learning concept we call the salary cap. Now,

(05:42):
The salary cap comes from the sports world. And fun fact, I'm going to give a sports analogy of which I'm grossly professionally ill-prepared to do. However, we're going to proceed. So there is a fantastic book called Simple Numbers, and it's by Greg Crabtree. And if you haven't read that book, do read it. It is phenomenal. And in this book, Greg tells a story about a NFL team run by a fantastic coach. And the success of this team in winning the premierships year after year after year was not because they had the biggest star names. What they actually really worked out was that this particular coach was incredibly efficient at using the salary cap that his team was allocated. So every single team in the NFL is given the same amount of money to spend on talent, which is a cool system, right? You have got this amount of money, you can get the star quarterback, you can get kind of this person, you have to decide how you use that spend.

(06:48):
And so what he chose to do was really understanding where that money was going to be allocated. So he would choose to get a good young rookie player, train them up for X amount of years

(07:02):
Until they had really kind of reached their potential, potentially. But then he knew when to kind of cut and then release and kind of hire two new talents again to get more leverage out of the salary cap. It's a story of you guys all have the same amount of resources. It's deciding, am I going to spend the money on the top dog or am I better to kind of get these particular teachers who I can train and mentor and develop, but I can have more flexibility in my salary cap to be able to shock horror, pay myself.

Michelle Hunter (07:33):
You

Chantelle Bruinsma (07:33):
Guys are probably paying your team at the sacrifice of your own salary and there's ways to play with that. There's ways to negotiate how you're going to spend the salary cap that your studio has.

Michelle Hunter (07:49):
Can I ask a question about that? You just said hiring the top dog. Sometimes that's not always going to bring the results that you think. And sometimes emotionally it can be a lot to carry. And I always think that if you're paying someone who is the top dog or that higher percentage of the salary cap, they need to be, in my opinion, they've got to be doing more, making your life easier.

Chantelle Bruinsma (08:19):
Yeah. In fact, it's kind of a bit of a red flag sometimes, right? When they're kind of coming in and asking for more, and then you kind of meet them, we've had experience with this. Sometimes they're seeking more and they're like, but that you give an inch, they want to mile type thing and it's set to kind of different expectation versus someone who is coming in for the right reasons, for devotion to the kind of mission of what you're doing and they're doing this because they love it, but their values are aligned with why they're choosing this as a career.

Michelle Hunter (08:53):
100%. And yeah, if you're looking for a team that you can train, you're going to have to train and onboard them and get them accustomed to your values and to your mission anyway. So that's something that you're going to do no matter what the hire is.

Chantelle Bruinsma (09:06):
So to be really clear on this whole core kind of salary cap concept. So in the profit plan work that I do with clients, usually we are seeking to keep wages, all sorts of wages, both to employees and contractors, collectively under 40% of revenue. So you could go right now and add up

Michelle Hunter (09:26):
Your revenue. There's always some people driving in their car going, "What?"

Chantelle Bruinsma (09:29):
Pour yourself a tequila first, pour yourself to get a margarita and then sit down and do this at least

Michelle Hunter (09:34):
Our

Chantelle Bruinsma (09:35):
Size.

Michelle Hunter (09:36):
I love how you just delivered that so easily because when we do deliver that, when we're working with a lot of our clients and they're doing the profit plan, they go, "What?" Please don't be hard on yourself if you are not at 40% right now.

Chantelle Bruinsma (09:49):
Oh, I bet you're not. You're not. I can make this really straightforward. I'll set your expectations really low. Your salary cap is more than likely going to be sitting around 60%, I would

Michelle Hunter (10:03):
Say.

Chantelle Bruinsma (10:04):
Okay. So let's just prepare yourself. But also this is fantastic information because that's where your profit is, right? So the reason you're probably not making a good profit or you're not paying yourself enough is because your wage allocation eats up any other cash that you've got on hand, right?

Michelle Hunter (10:22):
Yep,

Chantelle Bruinsma (10:22):
Yep. Let's be realistic here and know that this is not going to change overnight, but it can change. And it starts from you holding a beautiful honoring that, okay, well, what if we did need to have a 40% salary cap? What if we did need to keep our wages within 40% of revenue? What would that actually look like? And what becomes difficult is we're emotionally attached to these people, but they're about to get married and they're having a baby and they're going to buy a house and I want them to have more money. I'm like, "Yes, I want them to have that too." And also you need a new car. How

Michelle Hunter (11:04):
Much you get paid.

Chantelle Bruinsma (11:06):
So it's just a doubt, it's a balance, but it is really thinking about, okay, salary cap, it's how I use that money. If I were to allocate 40%, what would that look like? And this is when we have to have some good conversations to ascertain who is being paid too much? Where am I spending money and it's not actually potentially driving the growth of the business? Just looking for some gentle opportunities to see things a little bit differently.

Michelle Hunter (11:37):
And what's awesome about those gentle conversations, Chantelle, because we've actually been through this process as well, you could just try it on. We just kind of lay out a few scenarios. It's like, what wages are contributing to the business as in growing, like bringing in more clients and also what's filling our hearts and our retention and our culture and being aligned with us and just trying on a few hats of if we went down path one, if we went path two, down path three. And I think it can be really scary to think about, but if you just think of like, I'm just holding it lightly right now. I'm just going to try have no emotional attachment and hold it lightly. I haven't pulled the trigger. There's no trigger pulling.

Chantelle Bruinsma (12:20):
I mean, you say that. I'm going to have no emotional response to this person asking if I can be paid

Michelle Hunter (12:28):
More

Chantelle Bruinsma (12:28):
Than I've ever paid myself. No, it's fine. You're going to have an emotional response. We're going to try and not

Michelle Hunter (12:33):
Though. Yeah.

Chantelle Bruinsma (12:35):
Because it doesn't help you. It doesn't

Michelle Hunter (12:38):
Help

Chantelle Bruinsma (12:38):
You. And because if we start kind of comparing, well, I'm not getting that, it's going to

Michelle Hunter (12:43):
Radically

Chantelle Bruinsma (12:44):
Go the wrong direction, right?

Michelle Hunter (12:46):
100%.

Chantelle Bruinsma (12:47):
And look, there's a lot of different ways you can structure this, right? So depending on your studio, you might say that is a fantastic goal of what you want to be paid in salary rate. I would love for you to receive that amount per hour. At the moment, what the big priorities are in our studio is retention. And in fact, what we have is a scalable model that is based around our team's retention. This is just not for you, this is for everyone on the whole team. So what we do is we measure your retention as a teacher here. And if you are able to sustain over 90% or 85 or 90% retention across the year, in fact, over annual period, you will actually be awarded a higher salary than

Michelle Hunter (13:32):
The

Chantelle Bruinsma (13:32):
Rest because what this does is it teaches the person what you value. They're kind of coming in from a very, "I want to get this. " But really, the purpose of them being hired by your company, by your studio, is to retain students and to teach very, very well. And so it'll weed out those who are here for the right reasons and those who are not. And the other thing I want to mention about this is what's tricky is you get this unicorn teacher come in and they want to be paid at this shiny dollar amount and you're like, you're kind of feeling desperate and you're like, "Shit, I've got to get someone to hire that class on that day." And you're like, "Okay, okay, okay."

(14:12):
But then you've got these other teachers who are super devoted and who are really invested in the business and they're getting paid less, that's shit. So I really want to encourage you guys to have clarity in your salary cap and what you're paying and why. And if there are pay increases, let's be just transparent about it. Let's be totally clear on why and how you want to get it. I'm all for raising how much people get paid, particularly in the arts, particularly in our industries. That's important. That's how we are sustainable as an industry. And we also have to make sure that our businesses are financially stable as the paramount priority.

Michelle Hunter (14:49):
Yeah. Agreed. And I love that retention, I hate to use the word KPI, but it's sometimes hard to measure performance in our industry. And when you kind of bring that in, it transforms a lot because retention is like the heart of profitability in a studio. And if your retention is good, you know that you're going to get good retention enrolment in next term or the next school year, and that's going to transform into more profit and you will be able to pay them more.

Chantelle Bruinsma (15:17):
Yeah, that's it. You feel your class, you get capacity classes, I can pay you more. But until I have a sense of whether you're able to deliver that, the business can't financially be vulnerable to pay you that amount.

Michelle Hunter (15:31):
Full stop. Full stop. And you actually see that's how some studios explode because their teacher's retention are so good. And so imagine like the leaky bucket, no more. The hole's plugged, that's their measurable if they want to get paid more. And then whatever growth happens is on top, not just replenishing what's coming out for teachers who don't care or as invested as others.

Chantelle Bruinsma (15:51):
Oh, it's just essential. It's essential. And so people are going to come to you with a lot of confidence. Let's go here. Yeah, sorry, after you.

Michelle Hunter (16:03):
Yeah. I think this is not a ... We don't learn this a lot, you know what I mean? Holding that boundary when someone comes to us with confidence like that. Chantelle, give me your wisdom of staying calm in those situations and trying not to ... The boundary of not holding all that emotion. And I think that's so hard when your studio is your heart and soul.

Chantelle Bruinsma (16:27):
Well, and the financial piece of like, if you're not being paid enough, this is touching the most vulnerable part of your soul, right? It's going to trigger a shit ton of resentment to the business and kind of this righteousness of like, who do you think you are going to get a whip snapper? Do you know how long I've been doing this? Do you know how hard I work? Have you seen these wrinkles? Oh my gosh, it's tough. This shit is tough. It's

Michelle Hunter (16:53):
Tough. It's tough.

Chantelle Bruinsma (16:55):
This is hard. And they're coming to you with very high expectations and they are entitled to their own desires. I hold that deeply. Everyone is entitled and everyone is worthy of seeking what they want out of their life. Whether your studio can facilitate that is a very, very different thing. And so it's not allowing yourself to be pulled into desperation. What's going to happen is the scarcity, as you mentioned, Michelle, it's the total scarcity of like, "I need a teacher. I need someone to be able to step in here. I'll just hire them." And the power imbalance is already off.

Michelle Hunter (17:34):
Okay. That's a great anchor. Don't lean into the desperation.

Chantelle Bruinsma (17:38):
Don't lend. And so from the positive frame of that, just allow yourself to be solid within yourself. Just like that's great information. Thank you. Make a mental note like it's a red flag just quietly. Every time we've hired someone who's kind of been really aggressive upfront on the financial area, it hasn't worked out for us. No, hasn't. It's a good lesson to learn though because- It's really important. And prioritizing your studio's financial viability is essential, right? So when they come to you asking for more, thank you so much for sharing that with me. At the moment, we're unable to meet that. Here is kind of our standard rate. And again, anytime you laminate something, it's like, here's our laminated pay rates with the kind of retention. I'm a big believer in making things laminated. It makes people feel like, "Oh, that's formal. It's set. It's concrete done." Yeah, it's

Michelle Hunter (18:35):
Concrete.

Chantelle Bruinsma (18:37):
This is our pay progression. If you'd like to earn more, it's a matter of you kind of working here longer or your retention statistic. Show them there's opportunity for growth, but don't just meet them where they are without them kind of having cut their teeth.

Michelle Hunter (18:52):
Yeah. That's great. And if the laminator doesn't work, get it carved in a stone.

Chantelle Bruinsma (18:58):
Tattooed on your arm. No, thanks. As you can see, you can see right here. But yeah, it's a difficult one. But again, the more you become comfortable in, I'm unable to pay you more because I have a salary cap. I can't go above 40%. Again, I like having external things that in my head justify what I need to do for the business. I can't pay you more because that will take my salary cap out.

Michelle Hunter (19:23):
Yeah.

Chantelle Bruinsma (19:24):
Greg Crabtree told me to do it. Chantelle told me to do it. Whatever. Just keep a thing external. I can't because it's more than 40%. That's going to give you the stability to make the decisions that are going to preserve the profitability of your business and pay you more, which is what I'm here for.

Michelle Hunter (19:40):
Love it. Love it.

Chantelle Bruinsma (19:41):
Lovely ones, if you'd like to work with us and get someone in your corner backing you up when you have these hard conversations and saying, "Hold strong. Hold strong. Remember your salary cap." Head on over to studioevolution.com/apply. We'd love to work with you. And this is the type of thing that not only from a systematic perspective of looking at profitability, looking at actual the kind of salary cap of your specific studio, looking at your numbers, but also that moral support of someone who has got your back and can guide you through these kind of milestone moments as a studio owner. We'd love you on our team. So head on over to studioevolution.com/apply.

Michelle Hunter (20:20):
Thanks guys, and we'll look forward to seeing you soon. Bye. Bye.

Chantelle Bruinsma (20:24):
Love what you're hearing and want more? Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And the good news is that we've pulled together a bundle of our most popular resources from marketing and retention to pricing and systems all in one place for you to binge. Inside, you'll find videos, tools, and templates waiting for you. Everything you could need to start creating growth in your studio right now. All you got to do is visit studioevolution.com/start and dive on in.