From Doing to Being: A Women’s Exploration of Karma Yoga

In this episode of A Woman’s Gita Podcast, Kamala Rose and Nischala Joy Devi sit “under the banyan tree” with Chapter 3, Verse 17–18 of the Bhagavad Gita and explore what it really means to move from constant doing to simple being. They unpack Krishna’s vision of the yogi who is no longer compelled to act, because she has discovered a deep, inner contentment and happiness in the Self alone.

Through storytelling, cross-traditional insights, and practical suggestions for daily practice, Kamala and Nischala show how the ideals of santosha (contentment) and karma yoga (selfless service) can coexist in a modern, busy, capitalist world—especially in women’s lives, where the pressure to constantly “fix, help, and manage” is so strong.

Key Topics Covered:

• The meaning of Bhagavad Gita 3.17–18:
  • “One who rejoices in the Self” and is “not compelled to act”
  • How the compulsion to act shifts from self-centered to world-centered (welfare of all)
• Santosha (contentment) as a radical practice
  • Why “I am enough” and “I have enough” are revolutionary statements in a consumer culture
  • The difference between true contentment and laziness
• From external rewards to inner fulfillment
  • How capitalist conditioning trains us to seek happiness outside ourselves
  • Atma rati: happiness generated by the Atman, not by achievement or acquisition
• The evolution from external ritual to inner realization
  • The Vedic story of the gods hiding the Atman “inside” human beings
  • How ancient ritual fire becomes internalized as the fire of awareness and meditation
• Mysticism and direct experience across traditions
  • Yoga as the mystical branch of Hinduism
  • Parallels with Christian mysticism and the Beatitudes
  • “Be still and know…” as a universal doorway to the inner Self
• Dynamic stillness and the challenge of not-doing
  • What it means to be internally vibrant while outwardly still
  • Why Western culture fears stillness and glorifies busyness
  • Practical ways to start “making in as important as out”
• Everyday practices to cultivate inner contentment
  • Short daily sittings to train the mind in “I am enough right now”
  • Using mantra at bedtime to fall asleep in a state of gentle awareness
  • Bringing santosha into a hatha yoga class as a closing practice
• From ego-driven activity to selfless service
  • How the motive for action gradually shifts from “for me” to “for the welfare of the world”
  • Why one who serves selflessly is “not affected by any being or action”

This episode is for anyone who feels exhausted by constant doing, yet senses there must be a quieter, more grounded way to live, serve, and practice yoga—right in the midst of ordinary life.

Transcript

Kamala Rose: 0:39

Namaste. Welcome to a woman's Gita Podcast. I'm Kamala rose and I'm Nischala Joy Devi. We have met again here under the banyan tree to discuss the Bhagavad Gita. We're up to chapter three, verse 17, a beautiful verse so rich with meaning, but one who rejoices, who is contented, who finds happiness in the Self Only is not compelled to act. Here we are looking at the chapters on karma, yoga and Krishna is describing the a different way of being in the world where we are no longer compelled to act. Action doesn't need to be done. It represents a certain level of yogic development and insight to have achieved the place where action is no longer required of oneself. If we take a step back to think about what that means in terms of the many things we all have going in our lives, it's like one day rolls into the next and we're at a on a continuum with our activity in the world. What would it be like to be so complete and so still, action was not required of you? This is a yogic ideal that we are discussing here today in verse 17. What do you think?

Nischala Joy Devi: 2:21

Nishthala, you know, I think this is such a profound place that we need to all get to, and I think that's why it's so powerful. One who rejoices. And I think we have to stop for a minute and think, when was the last time that we actually rejoiced, and why did it take us so long to get there? So sometimes, when we read these things, they're they're almost complete. And I think we have to go back and realize that all this happens in stages. It doesn't just suddenly, like a light switch turn on, but one who rejoices, who is contented. And I think this idea of contentment, the Sentosa, is something that we begin to cultivate, and as we cultivate it, it it changes us. So first we cultivate contentment, and then contentment takes over, and when we have that, there's no need to act. And this is where you see someone sitting and just being they're not on their devices, they're not on their phone, they're they're not reading, they're just sitting and, you know, brings to mind a little story. When I lived in rural Virginia, we would, even though it was an ashram, we would run around, especially if we had errands to do that day, because it was a long way into town over an hour, and we would run around, and then people would say to us, Oh, can you pick this up? When you're in town, can you pick this up? So by the time we'd finally get out, we were a little harried. And I remember driving down this country road, and we passed this house, and there was a man sitting out on his porch in his rocking chair, and he was rocking. And as we drove by, he raised up one hand, waved to us. We waved back to him, and off we went. We ran around town here, there. Got a quick lunch, ran around again trying to get home. As we're driving home, I look and there he is on the porch in his rocking chair. And I thought to myself, hmm, maybe he had gotten up, gone in, had some lunch, maybe even taken a nap. And there he was again, just on his rocking chair, very contented. Didn't need anything. And here I was a monastic, a monk, probably not as contented he was really. And this is where we have our upper gurus, these people that come to us, that teach us. And I'm sure he didn't know he taught me anything, but I look but I looked at him, I saw contentment and then not the need to do anything, just to be and I think sometimes we think of this as laziness, because we have a very strong work ethic drilled into us. US, but in actuality, what could be more beautiful than just being still, observing what's around us and within us, and that contentment? So to me, this is such a and then it says, who finds happiness in the self alone? We don't have to look outside anymore, because outside and we I think we all find this is so disappointing. Whatever we want, it's never exactly the way we wanted it. Even you order something and you it comes to your home and you open it and you go, wasn't exactly the color I wanted, wasn't exactly the fit I wanted. So the idea here that they're purporting us telling us to be happy when you're happy, there's no need to do anything. So to me, that's a real permission slip to just be able to be and not have to do

Kamala Rose: 6:45

it's such an important point, I think, in the yoga community, to be discussing. I mean, you're speaking about santosha, the the Gita speaks in terms of Atma ratis and a happiness that the happiness, the contentment, is generated by the Atman and you know, we live in a capitalist world. We're taught from the day we're born that everything good comes from the outside. It's given to you as a reward for doing something pleasing, right? This says about this is about taking pleasure in from the interior and from something that cannot be bought or sold or bartered. Is the one thing that is not transactional, is the Atman in the center of us all. So, you know, there's this part of this that is inviting us into a dialog about what it is that makes us happy, what our culture has taught us to take pleasure from. And it gets to the kind of conditioning that yoga practice and yogas, let's say big picture, as far as teaching us who we really are. Really wants us to understand that we're seeing things in reverse, and giving us the space to work on those deep patterns of expecting to find happiness outside of ourselves. If you do you know the the old story of the the gods, the devas, and in the Vedic period, the idea of the atman was different. It was a little different than this. This idea evolved to become what we know it today. In in the old days, it says the the gods were looking where they could hide this atman from people. Yeah, right, having to look all over. We got to hide this because they keep finding, they keep creating this external Atman, and they look high, they look low at the bottom of the ocean, at the top of the mountains and the deepest caves and the densest forest. And the young god says will hide it inside themselves. They'll never find it there. And they were right, yeah. And this took, this was 1000s of years of the Vedic civilization of rituals and practices and chants and honoring an external Atman, which is what we're finding here in chapter three, this idea of Prajapati, the the the great cosmic person whose sacrifice sets the world in motion right. The purpose of these rituals, over 1000s of years to build that Atman, the atman of Prajapati. And here we're seeing this big shift in thought that now the Atman is an interior presence, an interior consciousness, and the outer has come inside. And instead of creating what we're looking for, which was very much a purpose of the Vedic rituals, was to create favorable conditions, favorable weather, favorable seasons to come at the right time. Again, a complete reversal, and that we that that echoes so deeply for us in the modern world.

Nischala Joy Devi: 10:34

Isn't this interesting to think about this? Because most. Of the major religions. I'm not talking about the mystics, because when we talk about yoga, it's really the mystical branch of the of the of Hinduism. It's an, let me just say again, what I how I perceive mysticism is, or I don't know if it's a definition for it, but it's something that you you receive direct transmission. You don't have to go through anybody to get it. And this is what some of our great saints were, real mystics. They didn't have to go through another person. So but most of the religions for the masses are based on going through somebody else. And one of the reasons was very practical. People couldn't read in those days, and someone could who could read taught them the Scripture. However, what that does is it, it does a few things. Actually, one of the things it does, it makes us dependent on the external, and then we develop a relationship with that external, depending on who we are. And this is where one of the ancient Vedic chance comes in where it talks about, Thou art my mother, Thou art my father, Thou art my brother or sister. I put that in. It doesn't say that, but we're putting it in, or my friend, and then it's so you can choose your relationship with something on the outside. And sometimes people do see them as a friend. Sometimes they see them as Father. Very, very commonly we see the external as father, because that's how we're told in the masculine to see it. But the last line of that chant, it's Swami Eva chant, says, Thou art. My all light of lights, there are thou art. So what happens to me? It's a progression. We start out one way, and it's interesting that it starts out with mother, because mother is our first guru. She's the one that teaches us things. She's the one that that brings us and introduces us to the world, and vice versa, introduces the world to us. But then it goes through all the progressions, and I think when you get to the point that you see the divine more as a friend, you've taken away the hierarchical aspect of the tradition. And I think this is, to me, what this also does here. We're now seeing that it's not outside. We are actually the God. We are the one without the arrogance and ego that we're the only one everyone is. So there's a real power to this sloka that I find. And everybody's always asking the question, How can I be happy? Well, here he's very clearly telling us how to be happy, one who rejoices, who is in content, who's contented, who finds happiness in the self, because that's the only lasting happiness we're going to get. Everything else is going to change. The body changes, the climate changes, the political system changes. Everything else changes. And the ones who can be content in the middle of all that, what it says to me is they have found that essence within

Kamala Rose: 14:35

and it, I think it's so important that part of that is it's not a retreat or a surrender from the changing nature of exterior events. It's a sense of contentment that exists, like, let's say, like, right alongside the changing events. I love that in in teaching the niyamas and santosha being such an important one, because we can really work with it. We can do a practice. We can we can sit and consciously bring a feeling that I am enough. Yep, I'm enough. I there's not one more thing that adds to this that would make this more. There's not anything you could take away that would make it less. Again, we're back to the Upanishads, poor namada And this, these sort of statements that say there is a totality within all. Beings. That is the great secret knowledge that is to be known. It is not diminished by, let's say, by, by making it stronger. It just is. And this, I think, is the beauty of yoga, is that it gives us it gives us practices, ideas to focus on. It gives us many, many maps like this, like the yamas and the niyamas and the asanas and the Pranayamas and the pratyaharas. It gives us methods to make this real. I think there's a certain level where we read a verse like this, one whose delight is only in the self, whose satisfaction is in the self, and who is content in the self. That for this one, there's no longer a need to act. It seems like a foreign state of being. It's hard to imagine what that is. But in fact, for the glimpses that I've had, it's the most natural state of being, and one I think as monastics, we're privileged to be allowed to live in that world for however long that we don't have a lot of people depending on us in the way a householder does, where we have that space and we we're cultivating a sense, a sense of being content right here, right now. I love what Pema Chodron says, the wisdom of no escape, right all, all circumstances, we are able to find contentment as a natural state of being within, as a way that we can know the self is knowing that that self is enough just the way you are, right here, right now.

Nischala Joy Devi: 17:36

And I think the finding it. How do we find it? Well, I think most of the slokas have been leading us to it, and certainly also, if you bring in the sutras, they certainly bring us to it too. It's through the practices. And again, it's a gradual process, but you start to if you go in and make in as important as out, and start lengthening the time within you realize that you now have an in and an out. There's, there's, there's two parts to you, whereas before, we were only out and the in part was reserved for the very sick or the very old. That's how we saw it. Oh, grandma's just sitting there. She's not doing anything. Well, my grandma might be doing something, but she might be doing something that's internal instead of external. And I think this is why, when I was first teaching meditation many years ago, I named it dynamic stillness, because that's, to me, what it is. It's not that tamasic. It's not that you're sitting there half falling asleep. It's very active, but you are not the doer. That's the difference. You are watching the process. So the practices will take you in. And I think this is also something that frightens people. They they because we're taught, don't just sit there, do something. We're taught this our whole life, and we feel that, what do they say, that the idle mind is the devil's workshop. So all these things that we're taught not to be still, we have to totally re educate ourselves that no now stillness is what we're looking for. We're looking for that quietude external so we can be active and engaged internally. And this is a hard concept to give a society that's not used to sitting still. When you go more into Asia, they're more used to it. They've done it since they've been children, a lot of them, and that's part of their culture. When they go into a temple, that's what they do. Whereas when we go into a temple, it's all external prayer or mostly or church or synagogue, it's mostly external. We leave the internal, we leave the meditation to the mystical branch, which every tradition has. But it's time for all of us to join that mystical branch, because repeating prayers will get you to a certain level of quietness, but to go even deeper, you have to let go even of the prayer.

Kamala Rose: 20:33

I love that idea of the centering prayer and contemplative Christianity. Um. Yeah, and truly, like you're saying, all traditions have that next step. And I was just reading this in the the transition from the late Vedic Period into the brahmana period. It was almost like, this is Karen Armstrong describing this. And she, she says, after so many centuries of chanting the mantra so precisely, it was like they just slipped right into meditation and discovered,

Nischala Joy Devi: 21:09

wow, yep. What is that?

Kamala Rose: 21:13

And wow. Now let's make that the subject. Yeah, let's make this. This the ritual fire. Let's make this the Atman, right? So that beautiful transition of thought to interiority. But as you say, this is a mystical aspect of all of the great paths in the world, but it is always reserved for few. It's all it's not the mainstream of any of them. It is the it's the mystical branch and where. And I'm also delighted to see that in this post modern era in the Western world, even the atheists are turning to meditation very seriously, and we're getting this idea of, what about being 10% happier and and it's catching on right the guys on the news are doing it now too, and they're saying, you could just be that little bit better, and it would make everything so much better if you could just be still for 1015, 20 minutes a day. Do it like medicine? Take me to take your medicine, sit still. And I of course, it should be delightful. But I think there is also a certain way that, as long time practitioners, you start to look at your practice that it's something that needs to happen every morning. It just for me to be okay, for me to feel right, and I you have to be you have to do your practice. You have to sit still for some time in the morning or things don't line up, right? I wish I had the I, you know, I had worked in the evening meditation more strongly in my younger years, because I see a tremendous value in sitting quietly before bed just to let go of all those samskaras from the day all those impressions and that, that functional purpose of meditation that really allows us to be content in the self, not only leads us to the self very practically, but allows us to maintain that type of relationship on a practical level, by knowing our minds and knowing this is what's distracting, and it's making me miserable. So put it down.

Nischala Joy Devi: 23:54

Yeah, it's making me miserable, and it does some some of the points you made just really struck home. I think that when we listened, even in the New Testament, one of my favorite lines there, because it just opens up so much, it said when we're talking about the Beatitudes, which, to me, are the essence I just I think they're the essential teachings there. And but to give the Beatitudes, it very clearly says, right before it, he left the multitudes below and took only a few to the top of the mountain. And I think that really says what you were explaining a minute ago, that what happens, and we can see it pyramid, like a pyramid. The bottom of a pyramid is where the masses are. That's the most people. This is the people who go occasionally, or even regularly, but not full full heartedly. And then you see the people that go more often, frequently, etc. And then you at a certain point, you can't just go and sit there. Has to be a leap. There. Has to be a movement into the next level of consciousness. Because if you do sit there and you don't move into it, the Tamas can take over. You can start to fall asleep, or you start thinking about things that really aren't so necessary. But when you move. That into it. Something happens, and that's where, and I actually had a stained glass of this when I was working with a very, very ill patients. Someone had made it for me, one of my favorite sayings, and it says, Be still and know that I am God. It doesn't say pray. It doesn't say run around in a circle. It doesn't say read every scripture. It says, Be still, be still. And for me, what happened was very interesting. I would look at this 100 times a day because it was right over my desk, and it started to to shift, and it be first, Be still and know that I am God, then be still and know that I am Be still and know be still, be that's all. Why something so simple is so difficult, but it is. It seems to be very difficult. And people always say to me, How long do I have to sit still? I said, until your mind gets so quiet that you don't even know you're sitting still anymore. They kind of look at me, shake their head a little bit

Kamala Rose: 27:04

and walk away, right? So unimaginable, right? Yeah.

Nischala Joy Devi: 27:09

And, you know, one of the things, and I think the reason it's so difficult to meditate at night before you go to sleep, is you're tired. There's a fatigue you've done the whole day in the ashram. We actually meditated before dinner. It was just a better time. But what I've trained myself to do, especially when I'm really tired, is as I'm as I've gotten my body comfortable in bed, I just start to repeat mantra, and as I repeat the mantra and as my belief, and don't tell me if I'm wrong, my belief is as I repeat it, it takes me into sleep, but it doesn't abandon me in sleep. It stays with me. And then when I wake up in the morning and I start repeating it again, it's as if it had been through the whole night. And there's something about that. There's no strain in it, there's no forcing. It's just an allowing. And I think it's a pretty good way to do it if you can't, literally sit up for it. And even if you can sit up for it, sometimes I sit up and I lay back down and I just start repeating it, and as I do it, I drift off to sleep with that. So it's better than some other things that you could be think of, or counting sheep. It's better than counting sheep counting mantra. So it's anything we can do to keep reminding us that it's within, it's not something on the outside. And I don't mean to offend anybody who's listening that believes that God is on the outside. That's fine if that's what you want to do. But why don't you try doing both at the same time it's in and out, in and out, and see which one you feel more comfortable with, because sometimes it's nice to talk to a statue or a picture. Why not? But know that the real essence is without form or name, and that lives in our hearts,

Kamala Rose: 29:24

imminent and transcendent. Yes, and you know, this is what I love about the Gita, is it really gives us a lot to work with. Sometimes Krishna is imminent, sometimes Krishna is transcendent. Sometimes Krishna says, The Lord is in your heart. Sometimes the Lord, He says, The Lord is in my heart, right? He's, it's always different. And I when you were speaking about the Beatitudes, you know, I've heard this about the Gita is often compared to the Beatitudes, in that it is the essential teachings of Vedanta of the Upanishads all, all together, what Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount in the Beatitudes. This is what the Gita is to the Upanishads to the Vedic tradition. It's an essential summary of all of it. If we could, if we could bring it all together and infuse it with the golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated, because that's where these verses are going, right for one who does not need to act anymore. It really means who doesn't have that compulsion to do something, to get more for me, right, that take care of myself, get more for me, right? That kind of personal compulsion to do and be busy and make and futz around, there is an end to that. But what is it replaced with in the upcoming verse?

Nischala Joy Devi: 31:07

Is with the

Kamala Rose: 31:09

idea of the world's welfare, right? So we come here from 17, and Krishna says, For this person who has found contentment in the self, there's no there's no need to act any longer. So I think the question is, what is that compulsion to act within all of us? What? What is that thing that draws you from your silence and says, I gotta go do the laundry I've got left that in the car, whatever it is I got to get to work. I need a call. Let me check my emails. What is that as the motive for action, as the birth of karma, right? That draws us into the world? He continues in 18 by saying this, one has no purpose at all in action. There's nothing to gain by doing something, and nothing to lose by doing nothing. One who serves selflessly is not affected by being by any being or action, because it's replaced the motive for action is replaced from a selfishness to a selflessness of working instead for the world's welfare what needs to be done. And I'm imagining the person sitting on the porch that you ran by in the beginning of our talk today about, you know what needs to be done, nothing, but that sort of neurotic busyness occupies the space of most people.

Nischala Joy Devi: 32:49

Isn't it just the feeding of the ego, because the ego wants to think, or the hamkara, whatever we want to call it, it wants to think that somehow, in this planet of what 6 billion people, that we're very important, don't think you're just one of 6 billion. You're very important, and what you do matters. That's what it keeps telling us what we do matters, and then when we evolve a little bit further, we do then quote good things, because that's what Yogi's do. But this is taking us a whole other step. It's not It's not saying do good things. It's saying Just don't do anything. And that that is something, I mean, I've been trying to teach people that I don't know how many years I can't even count anymore, but it's something that they have an extraordinarily difficult time doing nothing, just sitting there and doing nothing. No, no, I'll sweep the floor, just sit there and do nothing. So I actually came up with a another Beatitude, and it says, Blessed are they who expect nothing for they shall not be disappointed. And this is what happens. You know, as as we're doing this, I was thinking back on things that seemed so important to me 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, I've I dropped everything I would do this. This is the most important thing I could do. Now I can't even remember what it is that's the worldly gain. The spiritual gain never goes away. And I think we've read this sloka before about how we we don't lose any of this. But it's even more than that, if you can gain that ability to just be and not do. I always say we're not human beings. We're human doings. We do do. We don't. We don't just be. But if you can do that, imagine the power. I remember when I used to go up to Rishikesh, years and years ago, when it was still Rishi cash, the city of rishis and saints. And that's exactly what would happen. Who did you who did I go to? I didn't go the ones you're giving. Talks. I'd heard it. What I did is I went along the banks of the Ganga looking for those that were just being and I remember going and sitting maybe 1012, feet from them, not to disturb them, but just sitting there, because when I sat there, I was being. Also the vibration around them was so strong that it wasn't a doing vibration, it was a being, and you just sat there. At least I did. I would sit there for didn't have a watch, didn't have a timer, and at a certain point I'd get up and leave. They never moved. They were just being they were just there where, I don't know, I wish I could have gone with them wherever they went. But it's that idea, and it's so foreign to our society. It's so foreign because we need to get up and be doing, do, do, do, do, do, and what are we doing? We're getting ourselves exhausted. We're getting ourselves sick, and we're certainly not moving closer to our spirits.

Kamala Rose: 36:53

We live in a world where people work themselves to death all the time and again. It makes me question this, the impulse, and where that comes from, and that, like you said, this is really, this is such an advanced state that we're talking about here. And I think all of us as as yoga teachers and practitioners can can sense that, for that, for that kind of state to be very real and incorporated the the kind of discipline, the internal, the internal work and stillness. But this is the beauty of yoga. Where do we start? We start by teaching our minds how to be happy right here, right now, that practice of santosha, I think you use the term dynamic stillness, a sense that right here, right now, just as I am, it's enough, even if my knee hurts, even if my foot doesn't love this position, even if I need a haircut. Whatever it is that you're you've been thinking all day about how much you need. I need to do this. I need to do that for a period every day, to sit and teach your mind how to be happy with this right now. I think it's a great practice to bring into the classroom and something a wonderful way to end a hatha yoga class is just to sit and hold on to the feeling of contentment. You know, there's something that's almost, you know, it's just very radical about that in a capitalist society to tell people that they're enough, right the way you are right now, very empowering.

Nischala Joy Devi: 38:52

You use that word, and that's a very powerful word, enough. I don't think we know that word in the West, we seem to think, the more we do, the better we are. And a lot of times it's running around in circles, exhausting ourselves. Now there's some people that have to work a lot of hours. They have, they don't, not a high income producers. They have children. They have to do hopefully it's for a period of time in your life. And that's why I love how the Vedic lays it out. There's a student time. There's a time to be a student. It's like the ecclesiastics. It's almost very similar to that. There's a time for everything. There's a time to be a student, there's a time to have a career and make money. There's a time to raise your children, but then there's also a time to go back to yourself. That's the part we don't seem to remember in the West, we can do the other really well, but we don't have the ability to go back inside at a certain point, and one of the reasons is we don't think we have enough. Yeah, what is the next thing we need? Do we need a new car? Do we need a new house? Do we need more clothes? Do we need more education? When is it enough? When can we actually use that word? And I think when you come to that and you look around and you say, I have enough, let me now work. Put that energy that I was putting on bringing things in. Let me go in and. Find out what's there, and that's me, is where the power is. That's the real understanding. You know, I once heard a beautiful definition of contentment, and it said contentment is not the fulfillment of what you want, but the realization of what you already have. And it still gives me the chills when I when I say that, because we're all guilty of this. Every one of us you know, go into your closet, look, see what you have, and you still want more. Why? How many things can we wear at one time? So this is the the the carrot that keeps we keep sniffing and keep running after it instead be still, and you're actually become the carrot instead of running after the carrot. Very powerful enough is probably the most important word you can say. Enough.

Kamala Rose: 41:45

Yeah, yes. And this, it's this attitude that is a mature yoga practitioner. I remember many times studying the sutras with Mr. Ramaswamy, and always bringing up this idea that at a certain point, one realizes enough is enough, right? And we get we take that practice that next level serious enough is enough. I'm ready to let go vairagya. I'm ready to let go of what I knew I'm ready to I'm ready to move into those next levels of Samadhi, which is so this attitude is really required to move into the advanced levels of Samadhi, we have to find that I I'm I've had Enough. I'm no longer seeking to have more of this. I would like to have more of this.

Nischala Joy Devi: 42:46

Wow, that's that's a huge leap for most people, huge leap. And when I look at 318 I almost want to put it in the headline of USA Today, because everybody says to me, how can I find peace in the middle of this craziness that's happening within the world? This, I think, is the answer. It says there is nothing to gain by doing something, nothing to lose by doing nothing, okay, that we talked about. But this next part, the one who serves selflessly is not affected by any being or action. Whoa. And this is what is happening now. People are not only being affected, but they are almost developing an allergic reaction to it. So when they get near the news, near the sniff of the news already, they go into turmoil. So and this, and when I say to people, pull back, go within. That's where the piece is, and they accuse me of not caring, etc, etc. I don't think that we understand that when you identify yourself as a Divine Being or this true self, or however you want to describe it, our perception changes of the world and of the people in the world. It's not seen in the same way. When we're just looking through the mind. We see a bigger picture in this. We see that that expansiveness and are not so quick to judge because we don't know what's going to happen. We know what happened. We know what's happening, but we don't know where it's going to lead. And somehow I feel like all this struggle in the world, all this dissonance, is there to make us go back in, but when we fight it, we're losing both. We're not going back in, and we're miserable in the world. And you know, the people that I've read about, and I've read quite a few stories about people in Prisoner war camps and during the Second World War, even in the concentration camps. And the ones that survived were indeed the ones that went in. And they had their inner life, and they lived that inner life in the midst of the most horrendous. External that any human can even imagine or not imagine. So there's there's purpose for it. I also saw this with our very, very ill patients, who were perhaps end stage disease. At that point, there was nothing on the outside for them, they went in, and that's when their spiritual essence began to blossom. So when they were ready to transition from this earth into another realm, the fear was gone. The fear of death was gone, because they already had a taste of the other worlds and what was there. So I think it's very practical. Can be very practical, also

Kamala Rose: 46:28

absolutely and power to the doctors who are doing psychedelic research with end stage patients and helping to facilitate that revelatory experience. That really is what the Gita is getting at. It's because of another realization that we're able to see the world in a different perspective. I would say, you know, to what you're you're saying, this is exactly what the Gita is getting at. Is you have to be in the world, see the world, be part of the world, help where you can. But you also need to rise above and be a yogi and teach yourself because, because it is the path, right, because that is the way to the Atman. That's the the way to freedom, to find that contentment, to be happy right here, right now, with exactly the way the circumstances are. Even if you didn't move a muscle to fix something, it's hard for women. We're always busy. We're always trying to make somebody feel happy. We're trying to make sure everything works seamlessly, you know. But we all have our battles, and I think the point here we've gone through a lot of great examples today of the Gita is teaching us to maintain that yogic state while we're in the world, and that's almost a koan in itself. So I think this has been a great discussion today, and this is a wonderful place to leave our listeners thinking about that idea of being enough, yes, and having enough, having enough, being Enough, enough, enough is enough. You did enough. Sit down and rest. Go within. Thank you all for joining us today for a woman's Gita podcast. We'll look forward to seeing you next time. Namaste.