Addiction to Purpose with Riches in Recovery
The purpose of this podcast, channel and the supporting pages is to talk about addiction openly and unabashedly in all its forms. Drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, food, social media, shopping and so on. We will share and explore experiences, practices, suggestions, and possible solutions with our guests. It is our hope that listeners who are interested in a solution to their personal battle with addiction will be inspired to seek the help they so desperately need in the form they deem appropriate. The content is meant for entertainment as we are not licensed counselors, therapists, or physicians. Rich and I are just fellow addicts sharing thoughts and experiences with guests that are likely more qualified than ourselves.
Addiction to Purpose with Riches in Recovery
Episode 19: Step Series, Steps 1 & 2: Embracing Powerlessness & Finding Freedom
Struggling with addiction or anxiety can feel like fighting a losing battle, but what if surrendering control could be your key to freedom? On this episode of "Addiction to Purpose," we embark on a transformative exploration of the 12-step recovery program, beginning with the foundational steps one and two. We unpack the power of admitting powerlessness and the serenity that follows, sharing personal stories of how these realizations have laid the groundwork for self-love and personal transformation. Our experiences reflect the universal applicability of the 12-step model, shedding light on its relevance across various behaviors and thought patterns. Challenges and relapses are part of the ongoing struggle for sobriety, but there's transformative strength in rigorous honesty and spiritual support. We emphasize the relief and liberation that comes from relinquishing control and setting healthy boundaries, which ultimately leads to peace and balance in our lives.
• Discussion on the prevalence of the 12-step model
• Personal stories highlighting moments of realizing powerlessness and hopelessness
• The significance of self-love and community support in recovery
• Sharing of spiritual experiences and the role of higher power
• Emphasis on therapy as an essential aspect of the healing process
• Acknowledgment of the reality of unmanageability in addiction
• Encouragement towards progress over perfection in recovery efforts
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Addiction to Purpose with Riches and Recovery welcomes you to our audience. We hope that you enjoy today's show and will join in the discussion by dropping a review or comment. It would be tremendous if you would like rate and share our content, or even subscribe to our channel. Please be aware that not all conversations on this show are suitable for children. Additionally, we may talk about things such as sexual abuse, domestic violence and drug or alcohol abuse. If you feel that these things may trigger you, please do not tune in. Finally, if you are a heavy daily user of alcohol or drugs and are considering stopping, please consult a medical professional for assistance. Welcome to the conversation to the conversation.
Rich G:Hi, welcome to another episode of Addiction to Purpose. We are happy to be with you today, and today we're going to be talking about the 12 steps. Generally, the 12 steps, you know, regardless of the specific program you're working, are the 12 steps, so it's pretty easy to talk about them without having to go into a program, and they have really been assigned to just about any behavior or thought pattern that can be considered addictive or cyclical. So, you know, you just kind of replace whatever word or substance that you're throwing out there and you've got your version of the 12 steps. In 2020, the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, an organization in the United States, stated that the 12-step models are utilized by approximately 65% of treatment centers nationwide, so it's a very widely used still the most dominant kind of road to recovery that is out there. It's something that the three of us have all participated in.
Rich G:So, if you've watched the show before, we're definitely strong believers in whatever works for you is the best thing that you can do, right? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff out there. There's a lot of stuff, and whether you find a religious path, a 10-step program, whatever works for you works for you and we support it. But you know, I also think that there is. If you've never done a 12-step program, or even if you have, maybe there's questions about it, maybe there's some mystery about it, and maybe listening to what some of our own experiences are and some of our suggestions, maybe around how we work the steps, might be of assistance to you. Um, it's worked for us, so far.
Rich V:So far. That and other things right today. It's worked so far right, you know it's.
Rich G:Uh, you know, I feel like my program is 12 steps plus right, like I feel like there are other things that absolutely, yeah, that contribute to my sobriety and actually to my way of life, is what I'll say.
Rich V:Oh, yeah, and my life is way different. Yeah, completely different. And that's what it is. These twelve steps, you know, I've completely changed my life.
Abbie G:I've learned how to live a much better life yeah through going through these steps well, it really teaches you a different way of life. That's really what it does.
Rich V:Yeah, yeah. Well, basically, I mean to me, you know I don't know how far we're going to get into it today and all that sort of stuff, but what the steps mean to me is it teaches you, taught me how to love myself, sure, where I didn't know how to. And when you don't love yourself, then you don't know how to do a lot of stuff in life. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of stuff in life. You just I just don't know how to do, didn't know how to do because I didn't love myself.
Rich G:Yeah, and that's kind of basic to a lot of things in life that you do so, yeah, well, today we're just talking about step one, step two, so this is the part of the steps where I certainly did not love myself. Yeah.
Rich V:But you know what, though, it is a really good it's a good groundwork to loving yourself, though For sure it really helps open you up to that possibility. Right, there is steps one and two.
Rich G:Every step plays its part. That's why you can't skip one, like I did early on, and it did not work out.
Rich V:But the cool thing is, you get to come back to them. You have to come back to them daily and so, yeah, so, step one and two. There's such a great background to get back to it all the time and teach you a lesson every day.
Rich G:Absolutely. So with that we are going to do a series right Like this is just going to be step one. Step two, because we certainly decided that running through 12 steps in an hour is not really possible Well, it's possible, but you know not to do a thorough job with it as we'd like to do and then with that we may have some other episodes pop up that we want to do or some guests, so it might get interrupted, but we will, by the end of the series, take you all the way through step 12. So, with that introduction out of the way, we just want to introduce ourselves, and of course we have my man here, rich V.
Abbie G:And Abby.
Rich G:And I'm Rich G and yeah, we're Addiction to Purpose with Riches in Recovery and Abby and Abby.
Rich V:And Abby.
Rich G:So, as usual, we like to kind of kick things off by talking about something that we're grateful for. So who wants to start off?
Rich V:I'll start it off. Today I'm having a rough kind of day with my disease in my arm, and so it got me reflecting that the the love that's in my life that gets me through my difficult days. This is one of those days where I'm having a rough day and, um, uh, just found a little love. You know, coming over here and getting a big hug from the big guy and stuff and and the love in this room just boom, made me feel a lot better getting through my day. So, yeah, again always talking about love, but made me feel better. It helped me get through the day. There goes my higher power. So, yeah, that's what I'm grateful for today.
Abbie G:Nice, love it Nice.
Rich G:I jumped into now my second semester of school and I love learning, jumped into my second semester of school and I love learning and it's, you know, back to a rigorous amount of reading and writing, but I'm happy to be at it and, you know, learning, learning a lot to continue along my road, to have purpose.
Rich V:Right, so it's perfect. That's paying off. You're learning a lot.
Abbie G:Yeah, I am grateful for spiritual experiences. Um, I have been on a spiritual high lately. It's been amazing, and my two responses have had some spiritual experiences lately too, and it's just, it's been unreal, it's been super awesome. So I just um, I hope it keeps going. I love it, I think it's great.
Rich V:So, man, I want you to share that with me. Later on we can do it I love that stuff.
Abbie G:Yeah, I can tell you after the the God shots and stuff that you do.
Rich V:Oh, yeah, it's pretty cool and you start opening up and everything like that, and you get a chance to really open up to your higher power and all of a sudden you feel it, you know, ah, it's great, you know. And the steps one and two, that's the base to it all. You know, that's the base to it all. And then once your life, really, you know, you get to live with serenity and just get out of God's way and let God do the work.
Abbie G:It's beautiful. I was talking to my sponsor and we were joking because I said it's like I have. I don't have peace every moment of my life, of course, but I have this. I said it's like I have. I don't have peace every moment of my life, of course, but I have this. I do have some serenity now, which is really strange for me. It feels weird Like it's foreign. It's really foreign. And I we were joking because I was like, um, like where did I leave my anxiety? Like I left it somewhere. You know what I mean. Like I left it somewhere. It's not I don't have it, you know and it's so. I it's just a really foreign concept for me and very foreign feeling for me. You know, it's not that I don't have anxiety ever, but like I had anxiety every minute of my life. And now, like I'm sitting here, I'm not thinking about anything, you know, worrying about anything right now. It's very, very foreign and weird, but I love it, it's great. It's, um, not something I ever thought would happen. You know what I mean.
Abbie G:Yeah, so it's pretty cool, the steps work guys.
Rich G:So yeah, yeah All right, I'll read off that first step. Yeah, so step one um, we admitted we were powerless and that our lives had become unmanageable, and that's you know I, you know, I think that's you hit your bottom and or you know, whatever your bottom is right Bottoms customized to whoever hits it, and you know so something that I think is often asked of the newcomer that shows up and is looking for a solution is what did it mean to feel powerless?
Rich V:Yeah, I'll answer first. Yeah, all right. Powerless man? Yeah, I'll answer first. Yeah, all right. Powerless man. Powerless is, you know. People describe it in much but way different ways, you know, and it means different things to them. Do it all right.
Rich V:Um, I um, it was this feeling inside, and I'm talking powerless um, a lot of times. That means, you know, when you hit rock bottom and, uh, I knew I was powerless when I was in Hawaii. I've told this story several times, but I was in Hawaii, my favorite place in the world, and I was not having fun, didn't want to be there, didn't enjoy anything. I was doing. I just all I could do is think about getting my next drink.
Rich V:All I wanted to do was feed that death that was growing inside me. I mean, I felt like I was dying inside and you know, there was no part of me that I could do other than drinking alcohol that would bring me pleasure, and so it was a death inside of me. It just felt like my soul, my happiness, my love that was inside of me was dead and that's you know. That's when I really knew I was out of control, is when I just didn't have any love to give anymore, when that was gone, when I just couldn't, could not give any love anymore Because I mean I'm all about love and just couldn't get it out anymore. Yep, yep, it was gone, it's empty.
Rich G:Yeah, really with that.
Abbie G:Yeah, absolutely.
Rich G:No, you said that we were talking a little bit before the show and Abby's like that's dark.
Abbie G:Yeah, it's a yeah, it's. I always describe it as I felt like I was drowning, like I was, like the water was all the way up, like I was, my eyeballs were the only thing out of the water, like I couldn't breathe and I mean even like in a See. It even makes me like weird right now. But I just feel I just felt like I couldn't get out of where I was. I Didn't know how to get out. I didn't even know how I got in there and I didn't see any options on how to get out. I don't know, I felt super trapped and I even like I would be. I was working from home at the time, because it was during COVID and I would sit at work at my desk. It was like right over here and I just was like tearing my hair out, not literally, but like almost and there was nothing around me. But I felt like I was, like you know, high on something because I was just like I couldn't handle being anywhere at any time with anything Like I felt like I couldn't handle my own skin. I couldn't handle anyone talking to me or touching Like it was, like I just could not handle being alive. It was just like it was so uncomfortable for me and I just couldn't figure out how to get out of it. And numerous, numerous times I just cried out and I was like I can't do this anymore. I just can't do it.
Abbie G:How did I don't know what to do and I need help and to God, and somehow it worked out and I can't really even tell you what happened. I mean, I know what happened, but like I can't tell you what the key things were that clicked in place to happen. You know what I mean? Sure, so yeah, it was I. Just same thing. I felt empty. I felt like I was. There was nothing left of me. There it was. I was like a shell of my person and the only thing left was like this prickly outer shell. You know that didn't want anyone to touch it or do anything like don't talk to, don't touch me, don't give me anything, any love or anything. I will literally just sting you like a bee or what I don't know. It's a weird you know thing way to describe it. But yeah, it just was like not, not good, it was not me yeah yeah.
Rich G:I think, uh, well, first off, like when you first started to talk, I think, just because of how close we are today, like like I had this immediate, like tightness come over my chest and anxiety.
Tangent from Rich V:Yeah.
Rich G:Like there was this miserable reaction for me, same, that was kind of interesting it was. You know, both the physical and the mental. I don't know like torture is like nearly the right word. Right, like you know. You know that you know the drink or the substance that you're going to reach for is hurting you. Right, like you know it's hurting you, you know it's killing you, you know that is robbing you of your life, but your body is aching to the core because it needs it. Yeah, and your mind is telling you that the only thing that's going to give you relief from your thoughts and is going to make your body feel better is that substance. And so you're. You've hit this point where you're like you're using it, but it's not like it's beyond your will. Right, like, like it's, it's gone beyond that. Right, like it's not. You're not using it within your will. You're using it because you have to, and you believe that. And your worst enemy, best friend, worst enemy, you've come to believe that if you don't use that substance, that you can't, that you can't make a phone call, that you can't go to sleep, that you can't eat, that you can't feel love, that you can't do anything I couldn can't eat that, you can't feel love that you can't do anything right because my
Abbie G:hand was sick. Yeah, I couldn't eat unless I drank first, because my stomach would be upset. I couldn't, yeah yeah, I mean you were there the last time I took the rehab I couldn't sign a damn thing I couldn't drink it, I just had fun with it
Tangent from Rich V:it.
Rich G:But yeah, I mean that, that remembering that powerlessness, um, that level of powerlessness not, not just like, just in the fact that I couldn't make the decision not to drink, right Like my body and my mind wouldn't let me do it because I needed it so bad. That was my powerlessness, that was I hate to think about it, I know.
Rich V:And I was so tired of lying. I was so tired of lying to people making excuses for why my eyes were red or why am I late today and why I didn't get this work done, or why this wasn't done. And one lie after another after another piled on top of another, and I just didn't have another one left in me too. I just didn't have another lie left in me. Everything was piled up and everything was just about to tumble down. I just couldn't do it anymore.
Rich V:House of cards, yeah yeah I just, whatever you want to call it, it's just all gonna fall down and I just I couldn't do it anymore. It just yeah the stress and yeah the death, just gone well then, how many times can you be sick for me?
Abbie G:you know what I mean. And then they start to get suspicious about how sick you are, how often yeah, I still actually made it to work.
Rich V:I never called out sick because I was hungover. Nah, I did. I just came in so hungover. Well, at the end I came in drunk. So yeah, that just got me through the day. Yeah, yeah, so Well, at the end I came in drunk. So yeah, that just got me through the day.
Rich G:Yeah, yeah, so kind of like a little bit further along, when you maybe started to realize the lack of control, was it difficult to kind of a two-part question right? Was it difficult to admit you were powerless to yourself and was it difficult to admit that to other people?
Rich V:You know it was easy to well, not easy, but I mean it was easy, difficult, it was easy to admit it to others and it was easy to admit. Well, I mean it wasn't easy but I could tell others easier than I could tell myself completely. I mean, you know, telling others and telling myself, you know it wasn't that bad because I was, you know, I was a wreck, like I was saying, you know, so I could tell myself, I could tell others so forth. I was ready just to do that. You know, I just needed to get it out and all that stuff getting out open. You know I wanted to go to rehab and I wanted to do all that stuff. You know, but to actually admit it to myself all the way, completely, that took a while. You know that, to completely give in, that took a while. Yeah, yeah, it was very difficult.
Rich G:I think I kind of felt the same thing and I think I mean, you know, I've told you this before right, like the salesman in me would come out right. So to other people I could sell them what they wanted to hear, right, and if you wanted to hear that I was powerless, I could sell that to you, and to a large extent I could sell that to myself, right, and so I could even get to the place where I believed that I thought that I was powerless, right, and I could coast on that for a while, and so I thought it was difficult, but I was in such a point of desperation that I did it, you know.
Abbie G:Yeah, yeah. That's a weird question for me, because I think I genuinely believed at the beginning that I was piggybacking on your addiction. And I didn't necessarily have my own addiction, because I would just shot for shot with you. You and I always went to the bar together. Then I was like, oh, I'm caught in your addiction and I'm the victim.
Tangent from Rich V:Yeah.
Abbie G:And then you know because then, when you went to rehab, I stopped drinking.
Tangent from Rich V:Yeah.
Abbie G:You know. So I'm good. You know in my head, you know so. Then you came out of rehab and I went to meetings with you to support you, right, you know what I mean. Out of rehab and I went to meetings with you to support you, right, you know what I mean. So I it was weird because I don't think and then I, I relapsed two major times and, um, I think it just took me those times to really realize that it wasn't you, it was me. I had my own addiction. You know what I mean, like real addiction, not like I was like, oh yeah, I might be addicted, maybe a little like I have you know alcoholic light, you know right you know what I mean.
Abbie G:But, um, I think it just took me, I think it took me a long time to admit to myself that I really was, because I was like, I was still holding on to the like. Oh, maybe you know, every now. At the very beginning I was absolutely holding on to like, well, maybe we can just drink every now, and then, you know, because we had all the wine still and we had all this other stuff, we're like, oh, we'll just drink every now and then it'll be no big deal, you know, um, and that was that wine that I told you no, no, it's okay.
Rich V:You know there's a lot of money in that wine.
Abbie G:I won't touch it no, no, well, we did to be fair. We didn't really but, um, but the beginning I was like, oh yeah, I'm sober, but I'm really supporting my husband. So I don't know, it was all the farce at the beginning, so I don't know. I guess it was like the whole play of me pretending I didn't really have that bad of an addiction. So it wasn't really. It was all fake anyway. So I wasn't really admitting anything. I was just kind of like oh yeah so.
Abbie G:I wasn't really admitting anything. I was just kind of like oh yeah, I got a sponsor, yay for me.
Rich G:You know, yeah, yeah. Well, that kind of leads into the the next question that I had written down, which you guys were going over the questions before we started. Both you guys kind of laughed as soon as I asked it. But you know how, about three months in to the first time that you tried to get sober, were you still admitting that you were powerless. And yeah, like, no, like I had taken back over right, like as soon as I started to feel better and the haze in my head had begun to clear and I was back at work and I was feeling in control again. And now, like now I'm no, no, I'm fine right, right Now.
Rich G:I don't, I'm back in control and so, all of a sudden, I wasn't feeling that powerless Over it and I was rewarded Again and again and again With a relapse, until I finally came to terms and really, really felt like it was like really got to feel what it was to come to terms with powerlessness, you know mm-hmm.
Rich V:So yeah, yeah, no, at three months. At that point I really knew that I was not in control. I really knew I wasn't in control, but I didn't care that I wasn't in control. You know, I made it sober, I think I made it to three months even though I was close to it and I, you know, I knew I wasn't in control and I still wasn't sure if I wanted to.
Rich V:You know, things got to me, you know, when I started drinking, because work was really horrible, you know, and Christmas Eve, and it was just awful, and blah, blah, blah. And I got called in on New Year's Day, of all things. I had New Year's Day off. I had to come in and run the restaurant because a manager called out sick had New Year's Day off. I had to come in and run the restaurant because a manager called out sick on New Year's Day. Are you kidding me? You know, just, I got to drink for that. There's got to be rules saying you're allowed to drink for that. There's no way. I just knew I wasn't in control. But, man, you know, there's certain times where you've got to be allowed to drink. I'll just start by to myself. I'll start my sobriety date here, but everyone else will still think it's back there.
Rich V:It's the same thing, I'll keep the sobriety date, but no one else will know. Yeah, it took me 10 months. I was back in back in rehab and that's that's when I really knew that. Yeah, that's I still. Yeah, yeah, I knew at that point that I really wasn't in control. I mean, you know, I knew I wasn't in control, but I just give it up. I drink for, you know, a couple of days and I'd stop for a long time and that drink for a couple days and stop it. It just the little things kept bothering me. Yeah, you know they. Yeah, yeah, then what then?
Rich G:yeah, I finally decided to let God take over and then started working a little bit better, a lot better by the time I went back into treatment the second time I had been at war for long enough to know that I had lost Right, like there was no doubt in my mind that I was full on powerless. But it took A lot of pain and damage and shame and guilt. And it took a lot of pain and damage and shame and guilt and it took a lot of work to get there. You fought and you know, and uh, yes, you were.
Rich G:And you know I do want to say like out loud that relapse doesn't have to be part of anybody's story. But you know it is sometimes and it was part of mine and it was hard, fight, fought, but and I came out of the other side and you know I have a good friend. You know you'll hear God willing, I'll be sober such and such. But I have a good friend that says God's willing, it's me, you know, if I'm willing I'll be sober tomorrow and I'm like, I like that and so that's just. It is that if I stay willing I'll stay sober and anyway so.
Rich G:I'm glad that I was finally able to surrender.
Abbie G:Yeah, yeah I. I thought I had handled it three months. I was like oh, no I feel great, I'm. I'm good, you know you're, you're good, you were sober, so I'm like yeah, like I said, I'm not really a, you know, I'm not really an alcoholic, I'm just a little bit.
Abbie G:So I'm good, you know, I'm sober. It was totally easy to quit, because now you're quit, so you know, so I'm fine, you know. And then we went out to dinner and we got a bottle of wine for our anniversary and I felt I was like, okay, well, yeah, we'll just do that. And then I lied to everybody and said my sobriety date was this, just like you did, and I had the wine. And then I had a year, but I didn't because we had drank. And, um, that lie led me to a relapse because I lied and it dug into my psyche for the next whatever nine months or whatever that was, and for my I don't remember how long it was from that time, but it dug into my. You know the honesty of the program because you have to be rigorously honest and if you're not, it will get you, it will, it'll get you, you, it will, it'll get you. And so then it led to a relapse and I had a relapse and then I went through and I had to do my steps all over, or, let's see, not at that point. I did that and then I did. I had another relapse and then I did all my steps over again but, like the second relapse, the significant part about that one was before that one, I finally realized that I was powerless because at that point I was at work, thinking about driving to the liquor store right around the corner and getting bottles on my lunch break. I hadn't done that before.
Abbie G:Like I thought about it at home during COVID, because I was miserable, right, and you were here, everybody was miserable, but we were at home during COVID. At that point we were back at work, and so I was like, oh, now I'm thinking of getting alcohol for during my lunch break and drinking it at work in my car. That's not regular, that's not cool. You know what I mean. And so I was like, oh, okay, hmm, maybe I'm not alcoholic, like you know, and there was other things too, but that was like really one significant thing. That was like okay, that. And I felt the itch, I felt the allergy, I felt the craving that I could not get rid of. I felt it like I like a, like an actual craving, not just a thought, but like like the physical craving.
Rich G:I felt it's a Craving's, a real thing, man and I was like whoa, yeah, yeah, it was yeah.
Abbie G:So then I realized I was like okay, yeah, no, I'm definitely an alcoholic.
Tangent from Rich V:Yeah.
Abbie G:Like I am for sure, yeah.
Tangent from Rich V:Yeah.
Abbie G:You know what I mean? I just can't, I don't have control. Yeah, and that's where my recovery started for real.
Rich V:And it's so awesome when you admit to yourself that you are out of control, yeah, and that nothing, that you need help, you know and you open yourself up to.
Tangent from Rich V:God. Oh you got on a journey well beyond step one, man. No, but it is step one, you know, and you had no connection to God whatsoever at step one. There was a complete sever there. Well, we're talking about step one and step two, so that was me leading to step two. Okay, that's what I'm talking about. Leading to step two is what?
Abbie G:I'm talking about right now. Well, I mean.
Tangent from Rich V:I think you're leaking over into step three. I am a little bit. I admit we haven't. I love it. You're so passionate about it, right, I love it you love to tell the story. It's a beautiful thing. I tell lots of different stories. I'm just bringing you back in. I'm just bringing you back. I'm just bringing you back Love and passion. You ooze with love. It's a beautiful thing. Love is great. Give me back.
Rich V:I got your back. So unmanageability, so that's where we are. You were hanging out there and I was like yes, we're talking about unmanageability. And then you were like, let's go to fix it now. I'll stop with the unmanageability.
Rich G:My house is a mess, there we go.
Rich V:My house is a mess. That's what I relate it to. My house is a mess. That was unmanageability, Absolutely right.
Tangent from Rich V:My absolutely right.
Rich G:My house is a mess and you know I know I, I go back to you like, uh, you know you're talking about, yeah, right, you're talking about the. The internal struggle of the house is a mess, which is so true, right, but I think back to like my house was a mess like my home right, like my socks had been on for like six days and they were like you know, they were crusty and hard right and like you know, it's just true and my trash was overflowing in his thump and my sink those dishes.
Abbie G:I didn't know what was in there and our entire recycling was liquor bomb and our yeah, man, like it was, it was embarrassing the entire neighborhood knew that our recycling was being empty and it was embarrassing.
Rich G:When we emptied it out it would go crunk crunk, crunk, crunk, crunk. The entire neighborhood knew that our recycling was being emptied.
Abbie G:Yeah, it was very loud Really loud.
Rich G:We would have to put bottles in other places because the recycling was too full and there were bottles in my car.
Abbie G:I would literally take the bottles and put them in and then put stuff in between them so it wouldn't crash when I did the recycling.
Rich G:To pretend like that wasn't going to happen.
Tangent from Rich V:Yeah, so it wouldn't crash.
Abbie G:The neighbors wouldn't hear it breaking and crashing when I poured it in there, right, so we actually do things to make it not sound as bad.
Rich G:Right, we live together, so we experienced it together. My hair's greasy, my skin's greasy. I can't go places. I still go to the liquor store like that, but I like I spent time thinking about these things.
Abbie G:I would like we would hide in the house and then we'd like somebody would knock on the door or we'd get like door dash or whatever, and I would go into the bedroom and peek out of the blinds Make me answer the door and be like, okay, they're here, get the door. Like I'd be terrified to answer the door. I was terrified to answer the door.
Rich G:I don't know why we were crazy, why crazy, we were crazy yeah, that's why because we were crazy and uh and yeah, I mean, life had become unmanageable. When they called me back to work, I couldn't go to work without drinking. And when I did go to work, I would drink in the morning before I went to work and I'd hide the bottle in my car and then I'd have to get another bottle sometime during work and I'd hide it in my bag or I you know, I mean drinking and driving, not just to get from point A to point B, but it was an all day thing at that point.
Rich G:Right, it was a, it was a and I drove a lot for my job. That is crazy, that is not. That is not a well person, you know, and that is a completely unmanageable life. You know, when I look back I'm like there was nothing about that. I had no faith in anything. I had lost any faith I had in myself. I had no faith in my wife anymore. I didn't have any friends anymore. Right, like over COVID, everybody just kind of like went their own way and I was such a mess I didn't want to be with anybody anymore. Anyway, I wanted to sit at home by myself and drink Yep, and there was nothing in life that was working anymore and it was completely life. And I was so back to powerless, I was so dependent on drink that there was nothing else that could be more important than making sure that was maintained well, that's the thing like when I was.
Abbie G:When we were drinking together, we would pretend that we were going to have one bottle, and then we would fight over the alcohol yep all day, shot for shot, and we're like wait, are you gonna have another shot? Wait, I have to have another shot, you're gonna have another shot. I'm not joking. We would fight over the alcohol all day and then we'd fight over who was gonna go get the next bottle like two and a half times their size.
Abbie G:She's trying to drink with me, poor girl well, yeah, I did, and then I got a 0.33 on my dui nice yeah not gonna do it.
Rich G:Do it, I guess the cop was like how are you awake?
Abbie G:I'm like I don't know the judge is like this shows tolerance.
Rich G:That's what she said verbatim.
Abbie G:She said this shows tolerance. I'm booking book of Dan or whatever.
Rich G:Yeah, right like you're done.
Abbie G:But yeah, so I did want to spend a million on unmanageable because powerless.
Rich G:We spent a long time on, but yeah. Manageable is a big part of that first step to.
Rich V:I drink a 30 pack of Budweiser a day.
Rich G:That's a lot yeah.
Rich V:I mean I'd have three, that's a yeah, I mean I'd have three. I'd have three before I got in the car to bring my daughter to work, and then three before I got to work. And then I'd have I'd bring a bag to work with me and I put three to six beers in the gym bag. It was closed over the top of the beer, you know, and stuff, and then I'd have a six pack and a cooler in my car and so I got to make a phone call. I'm just going to run out to my car, slam a couple beers. Then, you know, I had to make sure I do it at least once an hour. I had to have a couple beers because then my hands would start shaking really bad if I didn't do it. So I either grab the bag that was in my office and go to the restroom and slam a couple beers there where I could lock the door, or I, if no one was around, I'd lock the door in the office, slam a couple beers in the office from my bag, or go outside.
Rich V:But normally that would. Normally I would get a 12 pack of beer during work in me, you know. You know a 10, 12 hour shift. So that was me cooling it on the drinking. That was light drinking. As soon as I got off then everyone was gone out of the restaurant. It's around midnight Then I'd pour myself a couple off the tap before I drive home to make sure I'm not shaking or anything. Before I drive home I'm nice and smooth so I'm comfortable on the ride right right home.
Abbie G:yeah, you're a good drunk driver great.
Rich V:I drive much better when I'm drunk, you know. So, okay, now I'm even now. I made it through the day. That was a long day, but I made it all right. And then I knew earlier in the day I'd put a 30 pack in my refrigerator in the house and a 30 packpack in my refrigerator in the garage Boom. So I'd be able to drive home that way and my daughter had already you know, she had eaten and you know, gone to bed and stuff like that, so she had taken care of herself. I had made her food earlier in the day and she got home from school and done that. Boom. Yeah. And so that's how my days would go. I'd get up in the morning and I'd not much sleep and get her off to school, drink before I had to go to work, and that's how my days went. Yeah, it was great.
Rich G:I could never fit that much beer in. Oh yeah, that's why I had to do liquor man Two fifths a day. But yeah, I didn't have room for that much booze Beer.
Rich V:Yeah, I have plenty of room for booze. I'll say beer. I drink beer because I control beer. Oh yeah, I'm just drinking beer. I see, yeah, 30-pack of beer, that's nothing.
Abbie G:Yeah, it's funny because I talk a lot about COVID but if I think back in our old house, we couldn't keep a liquor cabinet because we had. It wasn't a cabinet, it was like a shelf and we would have alcohol there. But like I would come home late from my job, that I worked, um like swing shift or yeah, like like nine, 30 hypothetically, but then I would get home at 11. And, um, if we bought a bottle of something, it was half drink by him, and then I drink the other half when I got and say I'd have two shots she'd take shots.
Rich G:140 proof liquor or 140 percent. You know whiskey, that was like barrel proof, I'm like.
Abbie G:And then when that was gone, I was like shooting whatever the weird crap was behind that. That nobody ever drank. That was a mixer, you know, like the vermouth and the like.
Rich V:Weird uh like all the slow gin.
Abbie G:No, I love slow gin and rum juice, man, that's good anyway, but like you know what I mean, we couldn't keep alcohol in the house. Even back then it was like and we've lived in this house like eight years, seven years, so even back like that way back yeah, our alcohol was starting to be unmanageable back then because we could not keep alcohol in the house.
Rich G:Yeah, we talked about covid, but. But we just realized that code was where we decided to hit bottom, yeah, and then continuously beat our head against bottom until we decided to stop yeah, it was unmanageable before that.
Abbie G:Because I was like, if I really think, I mean, that's when it really started to become unmanageable before that. Because I was like, if I really think, I mean that's when it really started to become unmanageable. It was like we literally couldn't keep alcohol in the house. You know, if there wasn't alcohol in the house, I was breaking open bottles of wine from his stuff from work or I was drinking the weird stuff at the back. Yeah, you know that nobody wanted to drink. And then he'd wake up and be like why is this empty? Why is this empty? I'd be like I don't know, Like there's any other people besides him and I in the house Don't drink it. No.
Rich V:You wouldn't think about just like getting a couple handles go to Costco.
Rich G:We did that and the handles would be gone in a day or a day and a half, if it was like normal, while you drink normally, it would be gone real quick.
Abbie G:Yeah, we did handles before COVID and during COVID. That's when we started on handles Before COVID and then during COVID.
Rich V:Yeah, what a team.
Rich G:We don't mess around.
Abbie G:We didn't do handles back then, because I think we genuinely didn't do handles, because I don't know if we would have.
Tangent from Rich V:Probably would have gone through the handles.
Abbie G:Do we even think that we didn't buy those because we thought we wouldn't?
Rich G:I think we still thought that we were, that we weren't too good for that.
Abbie G:Yeah, we didn't buy handles because we were too fancy.
Rich G:We want the good stuff so, luckily, we do things so full on and right now we're doing recovery full on, which is working for us.
Rich V:So we've, you're putting up as much effort in your recovering as you were drinking.
Rich G:Yes, we were just talking about that earlier.
Rich V:Seriously, though you know you're going to your meetings. You're sponsoring, we're doing this.
Rich G:Being of service. Showing up for people, doing what we say we're going to do, yeah, being of service, being of service, showing up for people, yeah, doing what we say we're going to do, and all of those, things.
Rich V:It is a common saying If you worked as hard at your recovery as you did when you were drinking, then you'd be okay. Well, I mean you guys, yeah, yeah.
Rich G:I'm right. There too, I'm drinking alone, man. I chased cocaine real hard. I chased weed real hard. I chased all the things that I did. If I decided that I wanted to do something, I'd get after it right.
Abbie G:So yeah, we did um. We have real big pile of cocaine at one point, yeah too, yeah, yeah yeah, just all bad, don't incriminate us, we don't even know it now.
Rich G:Yeah right, it was a long time ago. It was like five years ago. It was a long time ago, it's not in the house now.
Abbie G:It was a long, long, long time ago. I'm not telling you where we got it. I'm not telling you where it went.
Rich V:I quit that when I was 23, smoking pot and doing coke, I decided you know what this? Just I don't like the hangovers from this coke. It's way too much, because I would drink a ton of beer while I was doing it, of course, and the hangovers are just rugged.
Abbie G:They're really rough Rugged.
Rich V:And I just didn't want to do those anymore. And pot, that when I was 23, you know it used to be. You know all of you that you know had the experience with pot too. Yeah, I'm sure all of you did. You know, when I was 23, you know that's before that you got all the shake and not such good stuff. You just roll yourself a joint with your buddy, you know, share a joint and have the munchies a little bit and enjoy yourself. You know, go to a party and have a joint and so forth, and just, he had fun.
Rich V:When I was 23, that's when up north, up in humboldt um, we're in california, so so, so up in humboldt, they um decided to come out and learn how to, you know, make the really good weed and the really stinky buds. That's when they first really started rolling those out. And so that's when I had it a couple times and realized that, boom, you know, just it wasn't fun anymore. It knocked me on the butt, yeah, you know. And so that's when I stopped doing weed. Yeah, because I couldn't control it at all. I control my drinking, you know, but the weed now that just there's no fun anymore.
Abbie G:You're gonna handle it. No, that was the same, I tried I smoked pot next.
Rich V:Thing.
Abbie G:I know I'm just watching tv it's just gone that was the same. I tried the real um the real strong weed. I was like immediately paranoid.
Rich G:Yeah, abby smoked herself, paranoid. Yeah, all right, guys. So we've admitted that we were powerless and our life had become unmanageable. We talked about that. We used to drink a lot. We did yeah, we did, and how much of a mess that was making for us.
Rich V:And so how messy our house was.
Abbie G:Yes, oh, literally and figuratively.
Rich G:Yeah, and so now we're going to head into step two. So that's where we came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Mm-hmm, and so you know. My first question is you know, was this a difficult step for you, and why?
Rich V:It was a piece of cake step for me. Yeah yeah, because, man, I realized that I got to go to rehab. I was blessed with being able to go to rehab.
Rich V:Step one and step two pretty well taken care of. Yeah, I can't do this, you know I just can't do this. I tried, you know I tried to, you know, only have this much around beer each day or only have that. You can measure it out, all that sort of stuff, but I just it was, it was pretty easy, you know, I just I knew I couldn't do it myself, that's right, and I just needed I. I was, I used to go to church a lot, so I had a, you know, a background in church.
Rich V:You know I had stopped going for a personal reason I'm not going to go into. But so I a good basis of God, of a higher power, and I realized that I ain't making it, my house is a mess and I can't do this myself and I've just got to get some help. And that's when I just said, hey, I've got to get help, I can't do it myself. And, yeah, I reached out for help. I mean, it's just as easy as that. I just, I hurt, I hurt, I hurt so bad I have to get help. My first step I realized that, man, this is horrible, it hurts so bad I'm drinking all this. Everything's gone inside, everything. So bad I'm drinking all this, my everything's gone inside. You know, everything's horrible. I admitted it. You know this is me, this is, this is who I am, you know. And I can't do it. And next step I just said, you know, I gotta feel better. I gotta somehow feel better, you know, and, and I can't make myself feel better, I just can't do it. And I mean, you know you're churning at that point You're churning, you know. And that first step, you know it makes you centered. Okay, okay, I admitted it and I'm going to. You know, luckily I was rehabbed. I had tons of other people that admitted it already, so they're helping me out admitting it.
Rich V:But still, you know, you try to find a path. How do I get on that path? How do I find my way along that way? How do I do it? You really got to give it up. You got to give it up to God. You got to find a higher purpose. You got to find something to give it up to. That's where you're at. On step two, you find a tell yourself, man, I gotta get someone to hand this over to you. And uh, so that's where you're at, you just realizing I gotta hand this, this horrible disease, over to someone. I can't handle it myself. I need help.
Abbie G:Yeah, yeah um, this one is like a two-parter kind of for me. So came to believe a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. Came to believe a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity. Came to a power greater than myself was not an issue for me. I grew up in the church and I wasn't um the church itself I have kind of again issues kind of with that but god, I did believe in god and I didn't have um issue with God. And so AA actually brought me back to a God of my own understanding and brought me back to the church, which is interesting because that wasn't really what I had planned to do. So a power greater than myself to restore me to sanity was not the issue, because I did believe in God the whole time. I just had walked away and not had a relationship with God during a whole bunch of years in the middle, you know, since I was like 20 to, like, you know, a couple of years ago, a few years ago. So, yeah, so that wasn't an issue for me, and once I started doing the prayers and all that, it was like kind of like riding a bike. I just jumped right back on.
Abbie G:As far as the sanity is concerned, though I life. Then I was like, oh, there are like some of my actions were really not OK or not. They didn't make any sense. It wasn't just like I was mean, they were like not logical or like they were really like just out of control, you know, and that. So that sanity piece there, I didn't really believe that at first. I didn't. That didn't really resonate with me at first. I was just like okay, came to believe in power greater than myself can help me. Is what I really believed at the very, very beginning will help me, not restore me sanity, because I was like I don't really feel like I'm the same. So I kind of like just rolled over that last piece at the very beginning.
Rich G:And then once I got deeper into it I was like oh yeah, I'm not so. Yeah, I mean, I've been telling you that for years.
Abbie G:You know what? Nobody asked you. Okay, nobody asked you, but no, but for real, though, it was just like it did take me a while to really figure out that I was the problem. Well, like I said, I thought I was alcoholic. It's a recurring theme, you know. As you can see, character defects, that's how we go. So yeah, so that was an interesting one for me, yeah.
Rich V:I knew I was insane. I just knew I'd lost me.
Abbie G:Well, I think I did know, but I didn't really want to. I just, I don't know. I think I lied to myself a lot and I didn't. I actually I did describe it like this when I talked to my sponsor, I always said I think I gaslit myself on accident, I don't know why. Because I really like, I really believed a lot of things about myself, you know, and I don't really think I was trying to be like I was trying to believe it, like I was soothing. I think it was just self-soothing.
Rich V:We're great liars. And then I was like oh, no, I didn't.
Abbie G:You know, I don't know. I really I think I was gaslighting myself for a long time about it.
Rich V:I mean, I was gaslighting myself for a long time about some things. I mean, I was the greatest liar in the world. I was the greatest liar in the world Because I believed I didn't lie to people.
Abbie G:I believed I was really nice to everyone. I lied to myself and I lied to everyone, even though I was downtown, sometimes yelling at people on the side of the road, and the cops had to walk up to me and say, hey, is everybody okay?
Rich V:And I was like like, yeah, it's fine, why?
Rich G:would you walk up to me because I was screaming at someone. That's why, oh no, someone I'm screaming at someone.
Abbie G:I'm not crazy. What are you talking about?
Rich G:sir, go sit on the curb, all right, um so that was the other time.
Abbie G:I'm not even talking about that time.
Rich G:Sanity, sanity I think, has like a few different things for me. Right, like I think that was the other time, I'm not even talking about that time Sanity, I think, has a few different things for me. I think in some cases I was like, yeah, I'm crazy, and then in other cases I'd be like, why wouldn't I be crazy? Look at all the crap that I have to put up with.
Abbie G:Yeah, that's, true I hate that line Right.
Rich V:It's your fault that I'm crazy right.
Tangent from Rich V:Yeah.
Rich G:It's your fault that.
Tangent from Rich V:I'm crazy.
Rich G:All this bullshit, all our excuses. You know, yeah, it's one of those. Like you know, it's not my fault, it's not my problem. I hate when I hear that, but you know, when we're talking about the insanity of substance use or alcoholism that was I had definitely recognized that. Right, like I could definitely look around my life once. I yeah, I could definitely look around my life and realize that it was insanity, even before I really wanted to admit my powerlessness. Right, like I'm like, okay, this craziness has to stop. Right like I'm like, okay, this, this craziness has to stop. Right.
Rich G:Um, a power greater than myself was not easy for me at the beginning. Um, I had fallen into the individualist model. Right, like, I had to be this, the strong one. I had to be the strong one for abby had to be the strong one for my family, for the people who looked up to me, for the people who worked for me. Like I had to be the strong one for my family, for the people who looked up to me, for the people who worked for me. Like I had to be that pillar of strength. And so I had come to a place, with my relationship with a higher power or God, that I didn't say like there is no God. I said I don't know if there is a God and if there is, a.
Rich G:God. Then, whatever, whatever they're doing, they're not concerned about me or what I'm doing, you know. So how are they gonna, how is that power gonna, resort me to sanity? And I felt that way even in my first you know little run um, walking into, walking into, walking into treatment the first time, um, it was more like when I was like, okay, if I've got to accept this, it's going to be like you know, the whole, uh, you know, group of drunks or whatever, you know, whatever higher power is going to be the people I'm around. It's going to be, uh, you know, whatever acronyms there are. There's other ones, I can't think of it now but that's where I had to start you know,
Rich G:and it was difficult for me to think of anything other than me that was going to squirrel my ass out of that situation. Right, and you know, we kind of had this conversation after I spent three years of trying really hard and still making a mess out of things. The part of my problem was that I had never done one, two, three. I'd never done steps one, two, three properly. I'd never really done that them and so really for me it wasn't until I went back into treatment in february of 24 that, like a couple days in that I surrendered that I was powerless and that I that I was done that I was powerless and that I was done.
Rich G:I was done fighting, and then I turned it over to you know, I mean some of the literature will say a god of your understanding. But I've come to terms with it like I'm better off to not try to pretend to know anything about what God is or what God is thinking or anything. You know, I it's, it's beyond me, right, like can't understand it, I believe in it and I need help, and so that's what I lean on, right, and that's it.
Rich G:Like, like, I don't really try to go further than that, um, but, but, and that's it, right, so I won't go into the third step. But I did finally concede like, okay, power greater than me is going to restore me to sanity. Okay, let's figure this out there, you know, and so so. But that took me three, almost three years of solid because March 21, I think, was when I went to treatment the first time to February 24. So three years of fighting yeah, you know, fighting, fighting a losing battle yeah, to finally, you know, figure out that I was not going to figure out a solution on my own, you know, and I didn't try to do it the whole way on my own, but I still wanted my piece of the control. And I finally had to go like like, no, it's not up to me. So the next question I have uh, I'm going to skip one of them, but so what did it feel like, uh, when you, when you came to truly believe that the power to restore you would not come from you?
Rich V:um, power to restore you would not come from you the power to restore, you would not come from you.
Rich G:So when you finally said, like what I was just describing, like okay, fine, it's not going to be me.
Rich V:Oh, that I was going to get help. Yeah, oh, that my higher power was going to help me. Yeah, oh, here's one giant boulder. Here one giant boulder here Relief.
Abbie G:I was so relieved.
Rich V:I was like, oh, thank you, that's cool, I'm good. And and the very start of that, um, a pathway between here, my higher power, just started opening. You know that that pathway between my soul, my heart and my soul started opening to my higher power. Yeah, and that first crack of of the, the goodness and love that was inside of me, that really wanted to love me, that first crack started happening and it was really cool. It was really cool feeling just that first warmth of love for myself, just just got a peek out there, got that boulders off my shoulder so I could relax, could relax for the first time in I don't know how long. I didn't have to lie anymore. I don't have to lie anymore, I don't have to, and I just relaxed, felt that little drench, it was great. I just relaxed, felt that little twinge, it was great, right, yeah, I just realized that there was something in it.
Rich G:But I do, you know, I understand like, and that is where, like, maybe you start to feel that twinge of connection, right Like, where you know, because for me, you know you say boulders off your shoulders I'm like, I see it as like, like the elephant that's been sitting on my chest. I thought for a few years, but really for a long time.
Rich G:Right For like, oh, you did Maybe even more about most of my life, but this elephant finally went, like you know, decided to stir and start to stand up Right and so I could breathe again. And yeah, like it was like once I said, okay, I'm gonna need the help of a power greater than me. Then all of a sudden, that power greater than me went like okay, cool, thanks for inviting me to the party. You know, here I am, you know.
Rich G:And all of a sudden, like I felt like okay, yeah, like there you are, you know there you were or there the whole time right and I just didn't want to turn to it so yeah, it sounds counterintuitive because we always want to control everything.
Abbie G:But sure it's just, it's such a relief to just say I'm not in control and give up the reins and the car is just going to drive itself. Well, not itself. God's going to drive the car and you just get to sit there and read a book or figuratively, of course, you know what I mean but you just get to sit there and do the things that you know people in life do, instead of trying to control the wind and the ocean. Not that we do that, but you know, that's what we think we can do. We think we can do that and we can't, and then we fight against the ocean.
Abbie G:And that's impossible.
Rich V:And then I mean sometimes we have to do this. You know, things that we have to do that were on our shoulders also are gone Because we don't really have to do that?
Abbie G:No, that's what I keep trying to tell my sponsees. I'm like, you don't have to be in the middle of everybody else's problems.
Rich V:Yeah, yeah, it's hard to teach people, that isn't it People?
Abbie G:because they jump in the middle and I'm like you do not have to do that. You can have your own problems and some people. You can help people, yes. You don't have to be their only solution for every single problem that they have. Yeah, they can clean their own house exactly yeah, because then you have all of their problems on your shoulders too, and that's not really fair to you not fair to other people either no, because you're, you're, you're basically a crutch for them, you know, and that's what I said.
Abbie G:And then there was the realization of like, oh yeah, it's like if you teach your kids that you do the dishes, then they'll do the dishes. If you always do the dishes for them, they're never going to learn. It was like kind of like an aha moment, like that, you know, and so it's just, I mean that's a little off topic, but it's still. It's just, I mean that's a little off topic, but it's still.
Abbie G:It's just you don't have to, like I said I was earlier. I was sitting here not worrying about this other thing here, this other person over here, this other thing over here, because I have talked to God about it already. I've already told him what my worries are. I've already asked him for help with those. I've already said help this person with this or put the protection over this person or give this person grace. So that's gone already. I've already done that today. So I don't have to worry about it because I already gave it to that. I gave it to him. I already told him what I needed from him or how to help these people. So why do I have to sit and worry about it? I already have to sit and worry about it. I already did it.
Abbie G:I did it first thing this morning, or maybe even throughout the day, because I thought of it later yeah and now I'm sitting here without the worry about those people, because I already did it, yeah, and he's got it.
Rich V:I don't have to worry because I'm not in control of that and if you gave it to him, it's his job and if you want to send any more love or grace to them, you know at all during the day boom, you can do that let Just do it again. Yeah.
Abbie G:You know what I mean. And once I've done that, then it's in his hands, or the entire power, his, her, whatever you know their hands and I don't have to try to control it because I can't control it. There's no way I'm going to go to my friend's house and control her life. You know, even if I give her a phone call, I'm not going to control her life. It's just not a thing that we can do. You can't control other people and you can't control. You know, it's just not a thing.
Rich G:So Well, turning over the wheel comes in the next episode.
Rich V:You know I was dating. I dated a gal Did.
Abbie G:I rant to you now A little bit Sorry.
Rich G:Okay, I love it. Well, we always have the last couple of questions that we like to hit, and so, in the spirit of progress, not perfection, do you have something that you've been working on lately?
Rich V:Oh, I can chime in. You were on all sorts of stuff.
Rich G:So for me this is kind of like you know, know, so this is a progress, not perfection thing, right. So, uh, something that has come up for me again since I started school again is, uh, working on my listening skills, to to be um more focused on how I'm listening, and uh, so, yeah, so something that you know I was a little more cognizant of before, that maybe I've, you know, lost a little bit of focus there. So that's something that I want to get a little refreshed on and get a little better at my active listening with people.
Abbie G:Yeah, I think I haven't really started to focus on it, but I need to again. After the holidays I hadn't started really focusing on what I'm eating, um, again, as far as like eating healthier and we, we kind of are, but then I also need to watch my portion control too. So I think that's what I'd like to start working towards again, cause I was doing that, um, before the holidays and the holidays you know the holidays, but um, yeah, I think I wanted to start doing that again to just, you know, pay attention and make sure I'm looking and not just mindless eating, sure.
Rich V:Cool and wow, what am I working on? Yeah, you know, outside of 12 step programs too, there are also individual therapists, which are always I'm sorry. I love seeing therapists. I just got a new one and he just kicks butt, and I just saw him for the past couple weeks and so that's what I've been working on. He's and, uh, he recognized something in me that's been bugging me for years and just like really hit a note that I don't know why no one else had seen it, but it's really good. So that's what I've been working on right now.
Rich V:It's kind of personal. Yeah, it's a thing to say, you know, but I'm getting a chance to work on that, notice it, and it's taking you know. You know, but I'm getting a chance to work on that and notice it, and it's taking you know. You know, there's another little boulder up here that I didn't know about and it's kind of wiggling that one off right now and it feels pretty good. So, yeah, so don't, don't worry about going to see a therapist if you want a little bit more freedom in your life with 12 steps. You know, there's other stuff that's bothering you. You know it used to be. Going to a therapist is kind of you know what are you doing, that, and I'd love seeing a therapist and there'll be another person in your life that'll help you get it back into control too.
Rich G:Yeah, we've come into a time where the stigma of therapy has been removed, and that's a beautiful, beautiful thing, man. It better be removed, because it is a beautiful thing. Working on yourself is, uh, very important. Yeah, 12 steps is part of that, but, you know, seeking outside help beyond 12 steps or your recovery program, is big part of it as well yeah, yep, yeah, it made me a better person.
Rich V:Helping, helping me make become a better person absolutely so.
Rich G:Then, uh, are there any uh any big gifts that you've been given recently by recovery? I know I have one that happened to kind of us over the holidays and that is that we got to spend a lot of like really great quality time with our little niece of six years old and we really got to experience like a like a next level connection with her. She lives a long way away from us, like seven hours away from us or something like that. We really got to experience a next-level connection with her that felt really special and made us feel both a lot closer to her. We have a good relationship with her now, but just really blossomed more of a of a closeness that I really enjoyed getting to have, and I certainly think that some of that, if not all of it, is because of, uh, where I've come in my life today.
Rich V:Yeah, yeah, that was a great story. I loved hearing that when you guys got back. Yeah, yeah.
Abbie G:I think mine, um, at least the most recently, is, um, just the seeing the higher power working in my sponsee's lives. It's just really beautiful and it's just boosted my spiritual experience too. You know what I mean. It's just like I said that's why I brought that up today. It's just the spiritual high from it. It's just like my heart's just like floating. That's how it feels. It's just amazing and I love it and it's just it's. It's it's to see the light go on and have it be me. Get to be a part of that is just above all.
Rich V:See the miracles happen yeah.
Abbie G:And have me be part of the miracle. I've seen the light come on, but it hasn't been me who's done it or helped do it, and it's just. It's really, you know, over the top Awesome.
Tangent from Rich V:Yep.
Rich V:So, yeah, one thing I, you know, always say and I did with. You know, anyone who's you know addicted and just trying to stay sober or straight, you know, and you know each day. You know you can do it and stay sober that day, that's a miracle, you know. And each day you can stay sober, it's another miracle, you know. And you know I get to look at my friends here and they're a miracle. You know. Each of us that can stay sober, you know, not a lot of us can do it. You know, there's not that many of us who get to come out of the other end of it. We're all miracles, and so we just keep looking at it this way. Man, you're just all miracles. You're all beautiful. You make it out of the addiction and enjoy your life. It's a miracle. So I'm going to end it that way with myself Cool, I like it.
Rich G:If you have any questions about today's show or anything else recovery related, please feel free to reach out in our comments section, Facebook, Instagram or email the riches. You can find all of that information in the episode description. We will release episodes on the 1st and 15th of each month. Sorry, we missed you last month and we look forward to having you join us for future content. Thank you, Abby and Rich, for joining me today. Thank you, Thank you and thank you for being part of my sobriety today. Thank you. Thank you so much for giving us some of your time. We really hope you got something out of today's episode. We would be honored if you would like and share the episode or leave a review or comment with your takeaways. Don't forget to subscribe to tune into future episodes. Have a great day.
