Addiction to Purpose with Riches in Recovery
The purpose of this podcast, channel and the supporting pages is to talk about addiction openly and unabashedly in all its forms. Drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, food, social media, shopping and so on. We will share and explore experiences, practices, suggestions, and possible solutions with our guests. It is our hope that listeners who are interested in a solution to their personal battle with addiction will be inspired to seek the help they so desperately need in the form they deem appropriate. The content is meant for entertainment as we are not licensed counselors, therapists, or physicians. Rich and I are just fellow addicts sharing thoughts and experiences with guests that are likely more qualified than ourselves.
Addiction to Purpose with Riches in Recovery
Episode 20: Step Series, Step 3: The Journey from Control to Surrender
This episode focuses on Step Three of the 12-step program—surrendering one’s will and life to a higher power. Our hosts discuss their personal experiences with surrender and the profound impact it has had on their recovery journeys. The conversation highlights the significance of seeking help, the role of therapy, and how understanding a higher power can foster peace and empowerment in the face of addiction.
The challenges of transitioning from a structured environment like rehab back to the unpredictability of everyday life take center stage in our conversation. The Rich’s and Abbie discuss the false sense of control that often accompanies addiction, shedding light on the internal battles faced when confronting one's own role in the cycle of dependency. The episode emphasizes the transformative power of surrender, highlighting the fear of losing one's identity but ultimately finding relief and freedom in letting go of the need to control everything. Personal anecdotes illustrate how acknowledging and surrendering burdens can lead to a more peaceful existence.
• Discussion on gratitude and sharing positive experiences
• Importance of therapy in recovery
• Anecdotes about struggles with surrender
• Need for external support and guidance
• Concept of a higher power embodying love
• Viewing surrender as empowering rather than defeating
• Shared insights on personal growth in recovery
• Encouragement for listeners to embrace vulnerability
• Reflection on the evolving journey of surrender
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Addiction to Purpose with Riches and Recovery welcomes you to our audience. We hope that you enjoy today's show and will join in the discussion by dropping a review or comment. It would be tremendous if you would like rate and share our content, or even subscribe to our channel. Please be aware that not all conversations on this show are suitable for children. Additionally, we may talk about things such as sexual abuse, domestic violence and drug or alcohol abuse. If you feel that these things may trigger you, please do not tune in. Finally, if you are a heavy daily user of alcohol or drugs and are considering stopping, please consult a medical professional for assistance. Welcome to the conversation.
Rich G:Hi, welcome back for another episode of Addiction to Purpose. We're glad you joined us and we're going to continue on with the second episode of our Steps series. The last episode we talked about Steps 1 and 2, where we talked about admitting powerlessness and unmanageability in our life, as well as recognizing that a power greater than us would be the thing that could take us out of that. Today, we're going to be confining the discussion to just one step. The next step in the series is going to be step three, and you know it can be a pretty heavy one, pretty important one, along the way, and so we're going to dig into that and just spend this whole episode on that one step. But first, of course, we'll talk about who we are. My name's Rich G and this is my buddy, rich V.
Abbie:Abby G and.
Rich G:Abby, so you know I forgot to prepare us for this before we jumped into this. But what do we have that we're grateful for today? Oh man, so much On the spot. I know you should be able to shoot from the hip on this, come on.
Abbie:Yeah, you know what I was grateful for the rain today. I really love the rain and I don't know, I just always love it. It's real cozy when you're inside and outside. I even like walking in the rain.
Rich G:Yeah, yeah, I noticed you woke up a little slower this morning I did, I did, but I do love the rain staying a little cozy in bed.
Rich V:Uh well, me what I'm grateful for. I don't want to lose my man card for this, but my cat, you know it was your man notice.
Rich V:You know, um, I had to get up really early today and I was really flipping tired and I got home and I just wanted to rest a little while and there my cat comes over near me and we we had the little space heater on and we just kind of kicked it and watched a movie together and I rested and stuff and it was nice. It was nice and relaxing and warm and yeah, it was pretty cool. So, yeah, that's for Otis, my cat.
Rich G:I love that man. When I met this guy a little over three years ago, he was not a cat guy, right. And one day he shows up, he's like I got a cat and now he's smitten with his cat. And for me, let's see, you know, what's been really cool lately is that I'm learning to access more resources at school, which is cool. So I've been applying for, like, more scholarships and asking for for more help, right. So, like finding, um, you know, there's different things that I can take advantage of at school, like, for instance, they will offer me six therapy sessions per semester, right, so, you know, taking advantage of that, and some of the other things that are like free services. Uh well, not free, right, they come with my tuition, but, but therapy is freaking expensive. If I can get six no-cost therapy sessions, there's a lot of value in that it's hard to get appointments too.
Abbie:Just to find a therapist right now.
Rich G:that will take you, whether or not you even like them.
Rich V:I got to meet with my therapist for the first time this last week, like I said, I've been applying for scholarships and different things.
Rich G:That's kind of cool. You know, that is really cool. Being able to ask for help and get help is always a nice thing.
Rich V:I want to jump in on that. I mean, you know you're introducing and doing all that part, but you know a lot of us. You know we've been through the grinder. You know with our disease. You know, and you know a lot of times you know when we've, you know, been in jail or we've we've run into problems that you know get in our head. You know cause we've really been in our head when we're dealing with our, with our addictions and it'll mess you up in the head.
Rich V:And I know, I know I've gone and seen outside help a lot. You know, after, after, with with this 12 step program, I've seen therapists and it's helped me out a ton. You know to, to just get some personal attention. You know, and see someone who gets to know me and know, knows how I tick and and help me out. And it is definitely definitely not frowned upon at all by anyone in any 12 step program for you to go out and get some help. It's just fantastic to do it. It makes you feel good. Yeah, there used to be a lot of weird feelings about that, but no, no See, going to therapist is rock and roll, that's. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
Rich G:Yeah, I think therapy was stigmatized, just in the United States for a long time. I feel like for a long time in the United States you'd only go to therapy if you were crazy, especially as a man, not to poor man. It's not a thing. The patriarchy is strong. Men aren't supposed to Men. For a very long time we're not supposed to feel things right. Yeah, men don't get sad, you know, forget about it, but anyway so, but yeah.
Abbie:Well, we just had therapy, or we were witches, you know.
Rich G:Yeah, right, right.
Abbie:Witches or therapy, I don't know yeah there you go right right Fainting witches. When you, right now, when you have an opinion, when you have an opinion, uh, we'll go ahead and burn you at the stake, right? Yeah right.
Rich G:We're either a witch or we're fainting, because we're you know, yes, because you're dramatic the hysterics hysterical yeah yeah, um, yeah, so that was fun um, it's all bad but it's really cool to to you know, and there was definitely a time in my life right where, like my pride and my ego would have gotten in the way of me saying like I need help. Yeah, you know, like there's no chance.
Rich V:You know, there was a time for me too, but, man, I went through a time where, uh, um, uh, I was going through divorce and living with that person at the same time till the house sold, and then my father, who was my best friend at the time also he was going through brain cancer and that was my brain was blown up and everything, and I went to see someone just to help me get through that, and that was the first time I'd seen a therapist and that was it, man. I knew that it was a good thing to do.
Rich G:Yeah yeah this is hard to get through that yeah sure, that's a lot yeah, well, right on, thanks for sharing your guys's gratitudes with me. It always, uh, lifts my spirits to think about things to be grateful for, yeah yeah so the third step, you know the third step, so that's uh, where we made the decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of god.
Rich G:As we understand god, yeah and uh, yeah, so so that's, that's the step Right Made the decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understand it. So you know, we live in a culture where people are taught that you know they're masters of their own destiny and that if you work hard enough, that if you're moral enough, you're strong enough. You know sometimes, like even if you're mean enough, that you're going to. You know sometimes, like even if you're mean enough, that you're going to get what you want, what you desire. And sometimes you know, I think early on in your recovery, you even think that that means that you can somehow will yourself to recover. Yeah, yeah, you're tough enough.
Rich G:You're tough enough, or like it's just that you're living an immoral life, Right. And if you just become moral, you know, if you just get more, you know, if you just fix whatever you're doing, that's bad right, then you're going to recover and yeah, it goes deeper than that. It went deeper than that for me. That's how I should say it. So, yeah, what are our thoughts on that kind of approach?
Rich V:Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, my first time through rehab after my next 28 days, and everyone's on couches you know, a lot of rehabs are like that and I'm saying goodbye to everyone. And what did I do? But I ran and high-fived everyone in the couches saying I'm doing great, I'm cured, I got this beat, guys, you know, gals, and I'm high-fiving everyone on the way out and I'll see you later. I'm going to come back in, you know, aftercare, you know, and stuff like that. And you know there's a class I come in during it that you know, come see everyone and stuff like that. You know I'm all better.
Rich V:And then I got out in the real world Not a great sponsor and stuff, but you know I tried to do it all my way and do it all in my will, you know, because I'm tough and you know I'm the hardest working man that you've ever seen, because I am. I'm a darn hard worker, you know. And and I thought I could outwork alcohol and out, hustle alcohol and out, think it, you know, and and out, schmooze it because great schmoozer, you know, and liar, you know, and I thought I could do all that and I could work on my steps and me, me, me, cause I always took care of all my problems myself. You know my entire life, you know, and you know I always thought I could do everything by myself. But that third step, I didn't get it. You know I didn't understand that, you know it's. You know I've got a serious disease. You know doing it by yourself. That's ridiculous. To try and wrestle this disease down by myself, no flipping way. I've never seen anyone do it, never seen anyone do it without help.
Rich V:You know, and uh, um, and 10 months later, I was back at rehab, you know, with my tail between my legs and I really thought I was working the steps. I really thought I was doing great, but couldn't do it by myself and I was.
Rich V:You know, I was in the ditch when I went back. It felt horrible, but then I learned, then I learned, just I learned I couldn't do it by myself. And then I got that feeling I'm not going to go ahead and ramble on everything because we've got a lot to discuss, but you can't do it by yourself, you've got to have help. I definitely struggled, with it discussed but yeah you can't do it by yourself.
Rich G:You gotta have help. You gotta have help. I definitely struggled with it. You know the idea of turning anything over to anything or anybody. You know, because I was definitely raised in that mindset, that you do it for yourself or it's not going to get done.
Rich G:If you rely on somebody else or something else, then it's not to get, it's just not going to get done, right, so you either do something because you get it done or it just doesn't happen. Yep, and so you know, everything sounded good on paper, but then a lot like you, you know, once I got out of rehab and I got kind of back out in the real world and and the real thing was like, yeah, when I got back out in the real world and life started coming at me again, that ability like when life was simple and I was in the bubble of rehab yeah, right, I was like cool, turn things over, right. Like they tell me when to get out of bed. They tell me when I'm gonna eat lunch. They tell me, you know, when to show up to meetings. They tell me all to get out of bed. They tell me when I'm going to eat lunch. They tell me when to show up to meetings.
Rich G:They tell me all this kind of stuff Abby's kind of handling our life on the outside. I'm turning my will over to God, right. And then I get out into the real world and I've got to pay bills and I've got to go back to work and I've got to manage people and I've got to do this and I've got to do this and I've got to do that. And then I'm like, ah, this stuff ain't happening the way that I want it to Right. And so I'm like, you know, start organizing things, that I think how I think they should be organizing my life, how I think it should be, trying to make things faster happen, faster than maybe they should be happening. You know, controlling everybody and everything around me, like like trying to Lord over everything. Man, you wanted to get through those steps too, oh yeah.
Rich G:Pound through the steps, make sure my sponsor hears what he needs to hear. To give me, you know, the check Mark. You know I'm just going to get the A's and B's on my steps to pass and graduate the program and, uh, you know, did the same thing with my first therapist. Right Like I wanted therapy, high fives, boom, boom, graduated from therapy and relapsed like a fucking madman. Yeah, so it didn't get me very far. Yeah, that's just how it went for me know.
Rich V:You know, a thought that I had too is, uh um, I'm just this kind of person too is uh um, just thinking. You know, I have a higher power and it was no problem. You know, we'll talk about this in a second, but I had no problem coming knowing a higher power. I had a god in my life. My, the way I go about things is you know, god, don't worry about me. You know you got other things to do. I got it. You know you can take care of a lot of other things, but I got it. You know, don't worry about me. And that's really how I felt. You know, I don't want to bother you. God, you know I got this.
Rich V:You know, it's almost like I was embarrassed to have to need someone else, even God, to help me. It was almost embarrassing because I'd done everything. The second, I walked out of my folks' house, you know, when I was 18, I walked out, went to school. I took care of myself ever since then and, you know, I was just, I don't know. I guess it was prideful. Yeah, yeah, I guess it was prideful. You know, even though it doesn't seem like boasting prideful, it's just like I got it. You know, let me take care of this.
Abbie:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I mean you were. You were the problem, I wasn't the problem. Sure, you know what I mean. Once you were out of the house, then I could easily stop myself. You know what I mean. I was in control of myself. Yeah, you know what I mean. Once, once you were out in rehab, then I could stop on my own. I had the power to stop. I prayed that our life was different. I was like I can't live like this anymore. So something had to change, and that change was you.
Rich G:It was you.
Abbie:And once you were gone in rehabs and everything was calmed down, I was like, oh yeah, I got this. No, I'm good, you know what I mean. I can stop whenever I want to and I don't need to, and I did I stopped. You've told me this before. I'm sorry to interrupt.
Rich V:No, it's okay. Didn't you go through some horrible detox by yourself? Oh yeah.
Abbie:That's what I'm saying. I had a .33 on my DUI. I am an alcoholic, I am nuts. I'm insane. I'm actually insane. That's what I'm saying. I pretended like he was the problem.
Rich V:When? That's what I'm saying. I pretended like he was the problem. When did you get the?
Abbie:DUI, was it before In 2020. So, yeah, right in COVID in June 2020. He hadn't gone to rehab yet.
Rich G:She was why I started drinking.
Abbie:Yeah, no, if you had a wife, no, but that's the thing. If I think back of our drinking, we've been drinking really heavily before we even moved here. You know what I mean, and I've been and I and when we had a before, even covid, I was marking bottles in my mind. I was like counting shots of our friends. I'd be like, oh, oh, they're drinking more than I, but we're gonna need another bottle. You know what I mean. I'm already counting how much, how much liquor's left.
Rich G:You know what I mean yeah, so it's like in my like I'm already like doing that before 2020 even was close by. I mean, if she was across the house and she heard my glass tink on the counter, she'd be like yeah, did you take a shot without me? Yeah, I would.
Abbie:I would literally have eagle ears whatever you know owl ears and be like did you take a shot? I'm gonna get? Yeah, I need a shot too. Then, like go shot for shot with him. Yeah, like that was a good idea.
Rich V:You know what I mean do you guys ever have bottles hidden around the house so the other person didn't know you had?
Abbie:he did. But it was like after I kind of stopped, um, like drinking, because he didn't just didn't want me to know, but like we'd always drink together. So we don't really hide bottles because like we just drink out of the open, because we were just drinking all the time, yeah, but anyways, but yeah. So like once he was gone I was totally fine. You know, I just stopped whenever I wanted and so I didn't feel like it was god that helped me. You know what I mean. But I went to aa and I was supporting him and everything was fine. You know what I mean.
Abbie:And then, like I said, I think last week, it was like then, all of a sudden, when I started thinking at work that I needed to go get some whiskey on my lunch break, then I was like oh, uh-oh and put it in my. And then I, because somebody had somebody had said like I don't know if I heard at a meeting or something like that. I was like oh, yeah, so-and-so. Like you know, I used to go out to my trunk and like drink like booze on my lunch break and hide it in my trunk. And I drink like booze and on my lunch break and tied it in my trunk and I was like, oh, that's a good idea. I was like, and then I was like, oh, I can do that. There's a. There's a liquor store right by my work and I was like, oh wow, I'm actually considering that that is not a good idea. That's not good you're really close.
Abbie:I was gonna say and richard's not here and he's, you know, I'm saying like he doesn't, he's not at my work, so it's me, it me, you know what I mean. It's like yeah. So then at some point I did realize I was like, oh, I am. And then I do need help because I'm I. I did start to realize I have the allergy and I have the obsession of the mind which I always had. But I just ignored it and pretended it wasn't there. And once, like I said, once I start thinking back. I was marking bottles with the little, you know, little sharpie in my mind of how full they were, and then going back and be like, okay, we're almost out, I'm gonna have to take more shots before everybody else does, or we're gonna have to go get more alcohol because there's not enough, because I'm not that drunk yet yeah, you know I'm saying like I, I would do that and I wouldn't tell anybody, but that was in my brain and that is insanity.
Abbie:Yep, that is like the total. Like, like you know, obsession of the mind yeah like come on, yeah, so um yeah, that's like I said.
Rich V:I just would like, I think I was gaslighting myself for real.
Abbie:I know I've said that before, but like I really think I was gaslighting myself for real. I know I've said that before, but like I really think I was just completely oblivious to what I was doing to myself in some ways. And then when, um like later I was just like once I finally turned that corner. I can think I had gone to enough where it kind of started sinking in. Did you get a sponsor?
Rich V:Oh yeah, I had a sponsor pretty quick. Yeah.
Abbie:Yeah, because I'm doing all the things you know going through the motions, being a good girl.
Rich G:It was like a little bit after I got out of rehab the first time.
Abbie:Yeah, the first time A little bit after, maybe two months after, something like that, if that yeah.
Rich G:Six weeks.
Abbie:Yeah, so I was doing the things you know and and um, and I really was on some level trying. There was a level that I was trying, but it wasn't with all of me. I was not trying with all of me, for sure. And so then when I, I think I got enough in my head to realize I was like, oh, okay, maybe this is a thing you know, and it's not just him and it is me, cause I was like you know, I was like, nah, I was never going to be like you know, my alcoholic family members and stuff. That was never going to be me. Yeah, that's not me, no, it's not me. And so you know, that's what happens sometimes.
Rich V:I thought being an alcoholic is just a way of life. Right way of life, right, it's all my family you know, functioning alcoholics.
Rich V:I just was a functioning alcoholic, yeah, you know, I just that's how I was until it just got to that point? There's just that point. You know where. It just doesn't work anymore. I was doing great as an alcoholic. I wasn't. Yeah, yeah it was going really good until it wasn't right, until I had to have a six-pack of beer on ice in my car and six beers in my duffel bag that I brought into work and put in the office with me, and you were sad about it.
Rich G:You don't even want to drink it anymore. Right, it's a problem.
Rich V:You know that's when it's a problem you know, I liked drinking it Until you didn't, until I was throwing up cold beer in the morning.
Rich G:Well, there you go. That's when you don't like it anymore, right?
Abbie:Oh man, when you start getting up in the morning and you can't brush your teeth because you'll throw up if you brush can't, if you brush your teeth, that is, that is not a good place to just drink through it man.
Rich G:Yeah, that's not a good place, so I was gonna say like um, you know, I was thinking, you know, back to when I first tried to do the third step. I think things would have worked out differently if, if god would have just worked on my particular clock. Yeah, I mean, I just needed to bend to my will a little bit, just a little. Hey, yo, I need this done by 8.30. You know you're on the clock Right and then like 8.30, okay, fine.
Rich G:I'll give you until 8.45. And then if it wasn't done, like, who's gonna do it? It's gotta be me. Yeah, right, then I get real stressed out anyway.
Rich V:Well then, you know, I, I went through the time of kidding myself and and thinking that I was having god help me, and then it being my own will, and you know, and, and then I found myself back in rehab again feeling like just hammered dog shit.
Rich V:You know, um, I'll cuss very often said, it just had to come out, though, I mean because that's how you feel, that's how I mean, and you don't feel good, yeah, and. And then that's when it hit me. I've told the story enough times. Just sitting there on the deck just looking out over the grassy fields with all the cows out there, just an absolute gorgeous day, late morning, and the sun shining on me, and all of a sudden someone popped it in my head. There just was this feeling and it was a big one. And you know, because I was trying to wrap my head around things, trying to wrap my head around things, I just couldn't. You know, I was detoxed about three days. And what am I doing? What am I missing? You know, I really want to be sober. I really want to be sober, and what am I doing? What am I missing? You know, I really want to be sober, I really want to be sober and I'm just failing.
Rich V:And then I asked God, what am I doing? And all of a sudden I asked God and then I got an answer. You know, and God's answers usually are pretty subtle, you know, and it just seemed like it was a smack upside the head, though in God's subtle way, it just, you know, it's just sort of I was feeling so much better and I had this warm, just beautiful late morning sun on me and all of a sudden I just realized I had just asked God for help. And I of a sudden I just realized I just asked God for help and I felt better. And I felt better when I asked God for help and I just sort of thought I wasn't asking God for help enough. And you know, and I really had it, you know, first, you know I had put together what I thought God was. You know what I thought, and Then I really felt, really felt what my God was, and it just all came together. I mean, you know we all went through. I mean I went through, I went through Catholic catechism when I was real young and before I got married, you know, I went through confirmation and so forth, and so I had that God in my mind, you know.
Rich V:And but I just want to refine things. I mean it says God, you know of your own choice, understanding, and you know I just had an understanding and you know what a surprise with me. But just, god is love. God is this to me. God is this ultra love. You know, because you know you think of the most powerful thing in the world love. You know, because you know you think of the most powerful thing in the world, you know.
Rich V:And what beats love? I mean fear. Fear doesn't beat love. You know love beats crap out of fear. You know any type of hell, or you know demon or whatever you think of, but when you think of when you've felt the most love you've ever felt in your life, that beats the crap out of anything, beats the crap out of any high I've ever had, you know. Or you know just any ego you know I've ever come across, or myself, I mean love beats the snot out of all that.
Rich V:You know the feeling of love, the power of love, and and that started forming in me. You know exactly I was putting the pieces together for me and it just all of a sudden hit me like a freight train, and you know it. Just I just thought you know what I'm in, all in Chips are in, you know I just that was time, you know, just give it up to God. And that's when things started going well, that's when life just started going so much better. You know, and it might not be all the things in my life were going that much better. You go through hardships, like anyone's life is, but it's the way of living is so much better. The way you live is just so much better. It just is. It just is. I've been through so many rough times being sober and I've got God on my side.
Rich G:And I've got love. You get through it. Yeah, that kind of brings me to something I was telling you guys. It's funny, I've read, that was my soapbox.
Rich V:Yeah, no, you did great that was awesome.
Rich G:I've read this step like I mean I don't know how many hundreds of times.
Rich G:Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe thousands at this point, right, yeah, over the last four years, and I've read it so many times. But today it just like hit me a little bit differently, right, and it doesn't say that we will going to turn ourselves over to the care of a power greater than ourselves. And it just like hit a little different today when, like, I read it like with a little more intention today, I was like, oh, the care of a power greater than myself, right? Or of the God that I understand. And I was like you know, it's. It's funny because, yes, I'm saying, like you know, here's my will in my life, but I'm turning it over to your care, not to your control, right? So like it just feels better, right, like it just makes you feel a little warmer with it, as opposed to like, ok, just like, point me where you want me to go, I'm your minion.
Rich G:Right Going to be cared for, not just Right cared for not just right, it's more like somebody's gonna hold it and value it and cherish it, and just put it where it's supposed to go and care for it. Yeah, as it guides you, you know. So it just feels better to think of it that way and be careful with it, yeah right and, and I think I definitely think when I listen to it.
Rich G:Guide you though sure, but I definitely think when, when I first ran into this, I was like great, something going to control me. Now, screw this, everybody just wants to control me and tell me what to do. Like I said, I definitely already live my life in this way. I concede everything to God every morning because it does lead me to a greater peace, like I get to live in peace today. But today, when I read it, I was like, yeah, the care of God, the care of my higher power, right, because when I turn it over, it's going to be cared for, it's not going to be taken advantage of, because if you turned it over to another human being, it would be taken advantage of, even if I turned it over to my loving and beautiful wife.
Rich V:Human nature is not going to care for it, but your higher power is going to. That's a pretty dark thing of human nature, though.
Rich G:No, but even accidentally, it's true of me right, like eventually you're going to take advantage of it, even intentionally, unintentionally, right, you'll use it for your own benefit. It lose it whatever, you know anyway. So it just struck me different and so, like what you were sharing kind of uh flowed into that. You know it's truly about the care, like it's going to be handled with care. You know it's got the fragile sticker on it right.
Rich V:And you know, whenever I let God care for it instead of me, that's it right. Things go Okay. I can see that Instead of whenever I let God take care of it maybe not, but whenever I let God care for it and I listen to God's care, caring love yeah there you go, yeah yeah.
Rich G:So when you stick it, stick your own self out there, you end up feeling like hammered dog shit, like you said before. So you better have just leave it in god's care and yeah, nothing comes along to hammer you. Yeah, so anyway um yeah. So I just thought it was really cool that, no matter how many hundreds and hundreds of times that I've read that, that it still hit me different when I was putting together some notes for today.
Rich V:Well, I guess that's a really loving statement put out that way.
Rich G:Yeah, it's much more gentle and kind and caring to think about it that way, and kind and caring, you know to think about it that way. Something else that I wrote down that I kind of enjoy is you know, I have heard often I have no idea where the quote originates, right but I heard often in 12-step meetings is surrender is not defeat, it's just joining the winning side. I love that one yeah right, so surrender is not defeat, it's just joining the winning side. So do you have any thoughts on that?
Abbie:Hmm, Put you on the spot. Well, I guess I never. That's what I actually haven't really heard. Oh really, yeah, that's really. I haven't heard that one much.
Abbie:I do like it but I haven't heard it much, but I always just feel like, um, I always think of, like surrendering.
Abbie:As to me, it's always.
Abbie:Everybody always thinks of it as as as, as, like giving away something, but it's really counterintuitive because you really give it away and then you get like so much more and you actually get a full, a full life, like, like you said, joining the winning team, but like it's really just so much more than you think it's going to be, because you, when you're, when you don't surrender, you're just literally fighting against everything all day, every day, mind people, you know, um, you know everything just all day.
Abbie:You're fighting against, because you have to work against the flow of god or whatever you're trying to do, your own will. If you surrender, then you get to work with the flow of god and then you end up you just like, like I think we've said it before it's like floating on a river and you just get to float. Instead of having to, like you know, paddle up river because of your own will, because your own will is not the way the river is going, you're trying to blindly navigate yourself yeah there and because you me, as one person, I don't know where the river's going.
Abbie:I didn't build a river, you know. I didn't create the river, you know, and I'm one speck on a humongous river, you know I can't make the river turn different ways, and so that's. I love that quote but, like, as far as surrender, it's like I really it's such a big deal, you know, in this program, especially when people are so scared of it, they're terrified of it Because they really think they're going to lose themselves. But you don't have to lose your personality, you just have to lose your fighting.
Rich V:Right.
Abbie:You have to lose your fighting of what you think is the right way to do everything.
Rich G:But I think that's kind of the thought right Is if you're, you know, if you're like the soldier that's at war, right, and you've got the two sides that are fighting and then the losing side that is clearly going to lose. Right, You're the losing battle.
Rich V:Right, You're in a losing battle, especially if you're fighting for someone who you don't like. Let's say you're fighting for Hitler, regardless of that right.
Rich G:But you're in the losing battle and it's evident that you're in the losing battle, right, and you surrender, right, and it's the end of the war. Then what happens when you surrender? Typically you get to like, you get to just go home and live your life right and yeah, I mean, you may not. You know your government and some things in your life might change, but you do get to just go home and you're no longer on the battlefield, starving, dying dying et cetera right.
Rich G:So like it might not be that you join the winning side right, but you also have the war's over right, you're not getting shot at anymore.
Rich V:That's pretty cool Stuff blowing up on you, right, yeah.
Rich G:So at least the war's over. But yeah, I mean, I've heard that several times in meetings, you know Well.
Rich V:You mean I've heard that several times in meetings, you know Well you know, surrendering to me, I mean the jock in me, you know, I played a lot of sports, the mercy rule, and surrendering is just not something you do. I mean, I spent my whole life not surrendering, you know. And the thought of surrendering at first, you know, was, you know you don't surrender. But then, when you surrender the right way, it's just so soothing oh, get all this off my back and get all these lies. That's the one thing I keep coming back to when I talk about it. When I got to surrender all those lies, yeah, oh, just give those up and make amends to all those people that I lied to. Well, that steps down the road, I know. But you know when I got to just surrender all that stuff and just start. But right now, you know, I got right now in this step, I got to formulate what God is to me.
Rich G:So I feel like one of the really big benefits of turning things over in my life to the care of God is that it's made room for so many other things. Right, because I would have all of these things that, quite frankly, I couldn't control, but I was trying to, but I'd have them all on my mind, right?
Rich G:And they would consume my thoughts and my time and that would leave me no time to care for myself and to love myself and to care for and to love others. So, by turning over some or all of those things that would just burden me, and by being able to learn to turn those over to the care of God or a higher power, I freed myself up Right, so now I'm able to spend time on things like self-care, which I literally love. Don't think I ever did until I got sober.
Abbie:He didn't.
Rich G:Right, I don't think.
Abbie:I mean self-care, like.
Rich G:I mean, personal hygiene was probably about as close as I got to self-care Right and like, yeah, there was just never like. Relax, what is that Right? Relax, how do I relax? I go drink Right.
Rich V:So like that was it so.
Rich G:but now, like life is completely different. Right, like, I can sit and I can listen to people when they need to talk, and I can take time for myself just to sit and be quiet when I need to and let my mind calm down. Sometimes that's spent turning my will and my life over to the care of God. Right, like, sometimes that's me just stopping when I am freaking out about something and going like, wait, this problem doesn't even have to be mine. I can actually just say, actually, it's not my problem, give it up. So that was one thing I was thinking about today, too. Is that it's freed me up where I can love myself and love others, where before that was a huge block for me because my thoughts were consumed with so much stuff that, quite frankly, I couldn't control.
Rich V:You were so far away from serenity. Serenity was a concept that you had no idea of. You know, because what comes with our fun disease is that we never finish anything Because we've got lies that are clouding our head. And then we have the obsession of getting more booze and how to go about it without other people finding out or knowing that we're we're alcohol, we're loaded at the time, and so that's on our mind. Okay, make sure they don't know I'm loaded. Okay, but I can get booze over here and I can still do it without people knowing that I'm drunk.
Abbie:And so Don't act drunk, don't act drunk, don't act drunk, don't act, drunk.
Rich V:But isn't it cool being.
Abbie:And then you're like oh, can I have the? Oh, shit, I act drunk.
Rich V:Okay, yeah, but isn't it cool that I'm drunk and no one knows I'm drunk how?
Abbie:am I doing?
Rich V:Yeah, okay, but then, oh, I lied about this. I've got to keep that lie going, okay, but oh, I've got to finish this. That I started earlier. Yeah, but I want to get this done, let me get this done first, I'll finish that later. But oh, I want to have a drink, and so your mind, so you don't get anything done.
Rich G:Everything's half-assed done or not done, and it just keeps going in a pattern, and then, once you're sober, you can get stuff done because you're just saying god, give me a hand but even before, like, like I'm even thinking, like before I reached that point when I would get home at night and I would like be sitting there and thinking about my work day and I'd be like you know, that guy Rich just won't do the things that I want, that I need him to do, and like, how am I going to get him to do what I need him to do? How am I going to make him do what I need him to do?
Rich V:I've really got to figure this out. What's going to make him?
Rich G:perform the way that I need him to perform. And then I've also got to think about Abby and what's going to make her do what I need her to do. And my boss is a jackass. He's not doing his job, so I have to figure out how to do his job too. And then, oh crap, my mom's calling. You know what? I'm not going to answer for her because I've got to figure out how to make Rich do what he needs to be doing, abby doing what she needs to be doing complaining. It was just like I had to be controlling. I'm talking about well before I met you, my man like I know you experienced some of it, but that was like my life from the time that I got into high school.
Rich G:I feel like right like like my whole life. Like was that level of like, stress and control right, like I had to be plugging in, like I was working the switchboard right?
Rich G:and like I had to control other people control other people, the things that were happening around me. You know who was driving in my lane down the road. I needed to be able to control and predict all of it. I needed to be able to work out the quick math that would predict the future. I needed to predict the future and fix the past Right now. I needed to be able to do all of it. That's tough.
Abbie:I've got anxiety right now. Right, like I needed to be able to do all of it. And, man, like that's tough. Oh, I got. I've got anxiety right now, I have anxiety for you. I'm like but that's how.
Rich G:That's how I functioned man like that's how, that's how like.
Abbie:I was there with you.
Rich G:I feel that that's how high strung and high wired I was for so long, and I mean you suffered some of it because you would see, like, like you would try to help me with something, I'd be like just give it to me Like, no, you're not doing it right. Why are you doing dishes in that order? Don't do dishes in that order.
Rich V:What are you doing? I remember you telling me about that, though. Right Well you first started getting sober, you complained about how she did dishes.
Rich G:It's because I'm and I'm still a work in progress today. That's when you first started, not now. Well, today I'll go. You know, I noticed you're vacuuming like that. Okay, I'm going to just shut up. Thank you for vacuuming.
Rich G:So I still it's still a work in progress, right, but before it was like constant and so like when I say that it was a gift to be able to turn that over, like once I let go of even a small portion of that level of peace that I started to feel was amazing and and, like you know, I was telling Abby, like I was struggling with some perfectionism and some different things.
Rich G:I think I may have been sharing that with you, like this last week, yeah, and like I felt some of that come back. But I know what to do with it now, right, and I know how to recognize it and I know what it will do to me, right, so I can manage it so much better because I've learned how to like turn it over and I learned how to love other people and not let that part of me, because that's an addiction too for me. You know that's something, that that's just another form of addictive behavior for me. So you know, learning to let that and that's really is turning that care over to a God, a power greater than myself. Like you know, whatever somebody out there might believe in the rhythm of the universe, the flow, like you were saying earlier, to actually live in the flow, you know, that's how I describe my life right now, right, is that? Like I'm just the river flowing down the hill?
Rich V:You know that's showing that you're loving yourself. Yeah, Because you're letting yourself be hill. You know that's showing that you're loving yourself. Yeah, because you're letting yourself be free. You let yourself love yourself. You'll get yourself cornered in this. You know unstopping. You know garbage. I mean, quite frankly, who?
Rich G:wouldn't drink, and if I get myself feeling like that right, if I allow that back in my life, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, no, no.
Rich V:Yeah.
Rich G:That's an immediate relapse for me, right? So I have to be very aware of when I and I have to talk about it, right? I was telling you it felt good, I talk to Abby about it. I talk to the men in my church group about it. Take the power out of that. Yeah, I have to talk about that because I have to be. I have to keep that right in front of me when.
Rich V:I'm feeling it.
Rich G:Because that is a living, breathing relapse in my life, right there. But it's that ability to turn it over, to share it, turn it over, put it out there, let it be known, and it dies, man, that's got to feel good, it's good.
Rich G:Oh yeah, that's a good learning what to do with it, because I never knew what to do with it until sobriety. You know, and that's that's where the 12 steps are such a gift, you know, and that's why I look at it as such a gift, like, that's why you know, like, uh, you know, I've said before that I always thought that when people would like in a meeting say like I'm a grateful addict or I'm a grateful alcoholic, I'm like you're dumbass, right. But but now I kind of understand it, because I would have never put the effort into working these steps. They would change my life so much had I not imploded my life with addiction and alcohol yeah, right yeah, oh this, yeah, this has saved my life right
Rich V:absolutely saved my life. Yeah, so I mean I'm not being dramatic, but with this disease it has completely saved my life. Yeah, it's made me a person that most people who have my disease do not act like I do. My doctor was telling me this most people that have my disease, they just sit in a dark corner and watch TV and do not talk to anyone, do do not the rest of their life, they just just sit and wallow away and that's just how they spend the rest of their life because they just can't handle being in pain 24 hours a day and it just consumes them and they just sit and sit and whenever they talk to the doctor, it's just to get their pain medication. Or, you know, they talk to a therapist and therapists can't do anything to help them all. Yeah, it's, it's. It just ruins their life completely and they don't communicate or anything like that.
Rich V:And I'm the only person he's come across that actually leads any type of life. You know, because of 12 steps, but you know it's just because you know I've learned to love myself and I've learned to have beautiful, loving people in my life. You know, and and I got to formulate this, god at the third step. Sorry to come around, but it is really seriously come around to that. It started with that. That feeling, that love that, all the concepts that have been going through my head and my heart for a long time, it all came together. That love, that power that I learned at the third step I got to have all through my steps and stuff like that the rest of my life. I turned my will over to the care. Of my Life just got better.
Abbie:Yeah Well, this podcast is just what I needed. Yeah, good, yeah, feel better tonight. Yeah well, I just needed to be reminded that I turned it all over. Yeah, because I've been having some rough times and I keep praying about it. But I keep not turning it over. I keep praying about it but not saying it's yours. I just keep saying, you know, please do this or please do that, but I don't say it's yours and that is not what I am doing. That and that's what I need to do.
Rich G:That was a great reminder.
Abbie:Nice Subtle difference there there is a very subtle difference, yeah, and then I just felt my heart get lighter when I thought about doing that, because I was like then I don't have to sit here and stress about it, because I've been stressing about a whole bunch of things that.
Abbie:I talked to you and, again, like I talked to you, I talked to my mom, I talked to my girls at church and my other girls at my program. But it's like but, and that was great, I'm glad I did that too. But, just like you, I'm trying to keep ahead of my behavior, because I've had my addictive behaviors come out, with my anger and frustration and impatience, and those are my, those are my past behaviors and I don't want to be like that. And so I've been very frustrated lately and really like short tempered and I'm I don't want to be that way and that's the one thing I wasn't doing is surrendering it. I wasn't doing that, I was talking about it. I'm praying about it, but not surrendering it yeah, you know, there is.
Rich G:There is, and I say, a subtle difference, because there's a subtle difference between hey God, you know what's going on, yeah, this and this and this, versus hey God, I've got a problem that I'm going to make your problem.
Abbie:Yeah, and then I'm going to walk away from it. No, I really just realized right now. When we were talking, I was like, oh my goodness, that's what it was.
Rich G:Yeah, and yeah, of course it's like yeah, that's what I needed to do it still exists, but if you turn it over and then turn it over sometimes you have to turn it over again It'll be like it's not mine anymore.
Abbie:I don't have to think about it, I don't have to try to figure it out, because that's what I've been doing, that's why I've been so stressed out, because I'm trying to figure it out, and it's been turned over to the care journey as far as that goes, like it's been. I think my whole journey, with the whole process, has been this gradual thing. I didn't have, as I've mentioned before, I've, never, I didn't have this lightning moment, because I've had a guy in my life, my whole life. I never, I never said I didn't believe in god. I never said I didn't. He's always been with me and but I left. I left for a while and didn't communicate with my God, my higher power, and then I came back.
Abbie:And so now, once I start doing the actions, little by little, then I start seeing the results, I start seeing the promises. But it's not this big bang of the situation like other people have who haven't had it before. You know what I mean. I just see these little kind of like daisies popping up out of the ground. You know what I mean. Just little tiny things, but I see it.
Abbie:But again, I have to be paying attention, I have to be, you know, aware of what's going on. I have to keep my eyes open, because if I close my eyes and I say, oh, nothing's happening, I can't feel it, I can't see it because I'm being resentful that I'm not going to notice it, then my program will not be good. It's so subtle. Yeah, because I, because I do have to, because I'm not having the flashy things like everybody else not everybody else, some people I have to be I have to pay more attention to see my promises, to see my blessings sometimes, and that's okay, that is okay. Yeah, but sometimes they are bigger than just a little type of thing. So, yeah, Awesome.
Rich G:Yeah Well, I'm glad that the show fed you tonight. Yeah, it did. We like that, we like that. We all get that once in a while, whenever there's two people, there's always a meeting, so we have a meeting today.
Rich V:That's a good meeting. Yeah, that is awesome. Meeting it just yeah, it's just fun. It's just fun I.
Rich V:Whenever you get to sit around and talk about, and especially when you get talked about higher power, yeah, you know it, just it. You can't help but enjoy it. You know it just. It gets to be nice and raw, you know, and inside of it, and then you get the you know, feel what you're feeling about it. That rubs off on you, you know, and the more we can feel that and get in practice of rubbing that off on others you know anyone you walk by and say hi to you. You feel I say hi to so many people during the day and share that and then it makes that feeling more powerful.
Rich V:You can't give it away and have less. The more you give it away, the more power you have. Do you understand? The more you try to help out other people and everything, the more you help, the more love and God you have in you. Yeah, it's not something that you give away and have less of. You give away and have more of Sort of a karma thing, right, yeah, give good, you get good, right. And whenever I'm down and I'm feeling just oh, you know, I just give some love and boom, you feel better. That's why service is so good, right, yeah, yeah. That's why being of service is just awesome.
Rich G:Well, that was a fun show, guys. So you know, last Last couple of questions, as usual, Progress not perfection.
Rich V:What's something that you've been working on lately? Yeah, I've got some issues with my legs, okay, from the job that I've ran restaurants for 38 years and I was on my legs 10, 12 hours a day. Plus I'm kind of a big guy and so so my the pumps in my legs don't work very well with my with blood, and so I'm seeing doctors and getting some wounds that I have on my legs healed up and and maybe getting some operations on my legs to get them better. So that's what I've been working on right now. Okay, yeah.
Abbie:I think just what I talked about I'm trying to be like just aware of my feelings. And now I mean I had kind of an epiphany during this time, but like just really paying attention to that, because in my younger years I would have kind of let my old behaviors take over and my mind would have been depressed and my whole. I would have just kind of let it overtake me. You know, with depression and um, my feelings just be in control. And so that's what I was working on. This last like probably three weeks is like not letting it take over. You know what I mean? Like I felt, didn't feel good.
Abbie:I felt like I was fighting something, whatever you want to call it, my addiction, the devil whatever you want to call it it doesn't matter, but I was fighting against it and I was aware that I was fighting against it, as opposed to just letting it take over and not caring who I hurt or how it hurt me, and so that's specifically what I'm working on right now with this. I'm hoping if, now that I can give it over, maybe that will clear up what's going on, yeah, good oh love that.
Rich G:Um, you know, I think for me, um, for me, it's like kind of like I was saying earlier, right, it's like being able just getting progressively better at recognizing when I'm starting to feel a little funky or a little something that I shouldn't be feeling, but getting much, much better at sharing that with the people around me that will support me, right, being open, being open about it, sharing it out there, and I feel like it's just so effective that when you put something out there in the world that you're feeling and you tell it to people that will support you on it, that it does, like you said, rich, it takes the power out of it, right. So I think that's a really powerful gift, you know, to be able to work with.
Abbie:Yeah, oh, I did have one more thing, yeah, you know, to be able to work with. Yeah, um, oh, I did one more thing, yeah, um, also trying to not like legitimately not care what other people think of me, but not in like a negative way, in a way of like, if I want to do something, I do it, just because I want to do it sure you know what I mean?
Abbie:um, because I've had a lot of my life and I know a lot of people feel this way too. But I've had a lot of my life and I know a lot of people feel this way too. But I've had a lot of my life where I have just been too scared to do something because I was just so like somebody's going to think of this or that, or they're going to think of me this way or that way, and I just would always have this little back of my head person going you shouldn't do that. You're going to look stupid, they're going to hate you.
Abbie:Everybody's gonna think you're dumb, you know and it's bad talk my whole life and I've really, really been able to squash a lot of that in the last few years. However, it's still there, sure? So, um, that's what I did. That's why I did that on last friday night. I rode in my can't pull and I looked like a real silly goose, but it was really fun. And I was on there for 1.1 seconds and I fell off immediately, but but it was really fun. Nice and so yeah, but I really wanted to do it. It was one of my bucket lists and I always wanted to do it when I was drunk and I ended up doing it when I was sober.
Rich G:There, you go.
Abbie:So that was kind of fun, that's cool.
Rich V:I want to get on something that you said about when you're giving out these things for people to help you. Yeah, now see, you have helped those people as well, you know, because you give them a chance to help you. Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely. So. Everyone loves to help someone else. It's reciprocal. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a symbiotic relationship. Right there you go. Absolutely.
Rich G:And then the other one is what's the greatest gift you've been given recently by recovery? You know, I had one just yesterday. I kind of shared with you guys before the show that I've become a little active in the on-campus club students for recovery at SRJC, and yesterday was club day. It was kind of cool because we had a table where we got to be, you know, sharing some information with people and of course you know it, some information with people, and of course you know it's a college, right, and so like I'm an old guy at the college but there's a lot of young kids and you know they're coming by the table and we've got, I mean, of course you know students for recovery, but this particular club recognizes pretty much whatever you're doing right.
Rich G:So like harm reduction, if you're trying to do less. Reduction if you're trying to do less. If you're trying to learn about, you know, using clean needles. If you're trying to learn, you know it's really about anything right. Um, learning how to use safely, um, you know, if you're on medically assisted treatment, if you're using, uh, you know methadone or any any, basically whatever recovery looks like to you.
Rich G:You're welcome to come in and share with us and be part of the club. Part of what we do is we take and we have a large supply of Narcan, which is to reverse the effects of an opioid overdose. We also have these little packs that are for opioid testing strips. Say, you're buying press pills of an opioid overdose and we also have these little packs that are for uh, opioid testing strips, right. So like say, you're buying press pills of xanax, right, and you crush up the pill in the pack and you put a little water in it, you put the test strip in it and it will tell you if it's. It won't tell you that it is xanax, but it will tell you if it is fentanyl, all right, that's good right so and that's super common, right?
Rich G:because everything's laced with fentanyl. That's good, that's super common because everything's laced with fentanyl, because it's super cheap to produce. If you think you're getting Xanax but you're actually getting fentanyl, this will tell you. You have to crush up the whole pill, because they can just put a few flecks of fentanyl in there and be giving you a lot of fentanyl. Anyway, we're sharing with these college students and it can start off like a little bit of an odd conversation, but then you tell them look, I'm not trying to keep you from partying, I'm trying to keep you safe. So if you put your xanax in there, because they're like the whole pill, right, so put your xanax in there, crush it up, dump your water in there, test it, and if it tests negative, then just dump the water in your mouth and you get your xanax, you know I like we're out here trying to educate you and save lives right
Rich G:and then we show them how to use narcan right, we, we explain what opioid overdose looks like and all that. And we have like several kids come by like, oh, I party all the time. Or like, hey, my brother, my brother is a heroin user. Or you know, we have this one girl come by, she's like I got a raves all the time and she like grabbed like four narcan kits and like a whole handful of the test strips and I'm like yeah, she's going to rave.
Rich G:I'm like go girl right, but like it felt good to like do you know, it feels like you're really doing a service and like you know who knows you like you know but, it's funny.
Abbie:It's like the new condom. You know what I mean. We have condoms at the table, we do. We used to be like condoms was like a little. You know, that's like the new thing right keeping people safe, you know, yeah, it's not edgy anymore yeah
Rich G:we have like a whole bag of condoms there too like yeah, um, but yeah and, but you know. So that was just really cool to be able to like educate people on it and like tell them how to use Narcan and tell them about the Good Samaritan Law, because of course they're like, well, what if the cops show up and I'm like, look, they can't arrest you. You're protected by law, right, if you've saved somebody from an overdose, even if you're carrying drugs and they're carrying drugs, they'll leave you alone. They just want to save lives. So, anyway, that was really rewarding to get to do that.
Rich V:Yeah, definitely yeah.
Rich G:So that was a gift and I got to be there because I'm in recovery.
Rich V:That's awesome. Oh man, look at all these windows doors that have opened up for you.
Rich G:Right, just fun stuff, man, just great stuff. I get to do all kinds of cool stuff because you know I've changed my direction in life, so that's pretty good. Yeah, and you know I've changed my direction in life, so that's pretty good, yeah, and where you were?
Rich V:Yeah, what a huge three man 180.
Abbie:Good stuff, yeah, I get to um I'm I am still going through a fifth step with my sponsee and it's just really um, it's amazing.
Rich V:So that's so I, yeah there. Yeah, there's there's. Yeah, that's yeah I it's hard to say yeah it's just there's not many.
Abbie:I mean, it's rough, of course, but it's just like to to have the you know the release of, of, just you know getting her to be able to push through all of that. You know what I mean'd go past it.
Rich G:To be their person.
Rich V:It's pretty special. Share that love. That's amazing. Sure, that's just so much love doing that, so much of that stuff coming off of them. It's visuals, you can just watch it happen. Yeah, alright, if you have any questions about today's show or anything else recovery. Watch it happen.
Rich G:Yeah, yeah All right, well, yeah, if you have any questions about today's show or anything else recovery related, please feel free to reach out in the comments section, facebook, instagram or email the riches. You can find all of that information in the episode description. We'll release episodes on the 1st and 15th of each month and we look forward to having you join us for future content. We'll continue working down the series of steps, so our next steps episode will be steps four and five together.
Rich V:Great present.
Rich G:Yeah, abby was just talking about four and five, so we'll be exploring that content together, and so thank you guys for hanging out with me tonight. Four and five Still more 5, still more fun, still more fun.
Rich G:That's great. Thanks to our audience for being part of our sobriety today, thank you. Thank you so much for giving us some of your time. We really hope you got something out of today's episode. We would be honored if you would like and share the episode or leave a review or comment with your takeaways. Don't forget to subscribe to tune into future episodes. Have a great day.
