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Conversations At The Well
Join us for Conversations at the Well, where Desireé & Vernon Brown blend heartfelt storytelling, candid interviews, and poignant questions to explore faith, wellness, business, family, and marriage. Our authentic conversations will leave you feeling inspired, empowered, and ready to create the life, family, and relationships you desire. Pull up a chair and join us at The Well—the journey starts here.
Conversations At The Well
Money... Stop Praying for What You Won’t Manage | Episode 030
Are you asking God for a harvest on land you haven't even fenced yet? In this milestone episode, Desiree and Vernon Brown celebrate 10 years of marriage by pulling back the curtain on the "messy middle" of their journey. From living in a "Doo-Doo Brown" fixer-upper with a newborn to navigating a sudden layoff while owning multiple properties, the Browns discuss why your next financial breakthrough might require less time in the prayer closet and more time in the spreadsheet.
This isn’t just about wealth; it’s about stewardship. Whether you are "the spender" or "the saver," learn how to align your marriage, your vision, and your bank account so that when God provides the opportunity, you have the discipline to handle it.
In this episode, we discuss:
- The "One-Salary" Rule: How to survive a layoff before it happens.
- The 55/45 vs. 90/10 Debate: Where does God’s part end and ours begin?
- Turning "Wrecks" into Equity: Real estate lessons from House A, B, and C.
- Why "Money is Alive": If you don't tell it where to go, it will walk away.
Good morning, good morning, and welcome to Conversations at the Well. I think this is our first episode of 2026. Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely our first.
SPEAKER_05:Well, you don't know how they're gonna come out. So it might be, it might not be. You never know.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:But we want to invite you back to the Conversations at the Well table. Today we're gonna be having a special conversation about some money, money, money, money, money. We're gonna be talking about some financial goals, some financial skills, just how we've kind of gone through our journey. And so hopefully in the comments and throughout our conversations, we can learn a little bit from you. You can hear a little bit about how we got to wherever it is that we are. So grab some coffee, grab some coffee and join us here for conversations at the well.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, welcome back. You know that if I'm sitting here at the table, we are um doing an interview with the Browns. So welcome, Browns. Thank you. I'm scared. Welcome to you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And the reason for this podcast, and just so that we can just lay the foundation, is that I asked them, they were not ready to come out of hiding yet, but but I asked them if we could do this podcast mainly because um they have a financial workshop coming up at the well, and so many people don't know how to get to the next step. And for me, I know I have learned so much just watching the way you guys do life. I just wanted to have a conversation so that those who may not think that it's um relevant to their life, they can understand that this may be the beginning step. So I thank you guys for accepting, and I thank you guys for giving me um the option of asking all of these questions. So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_05:It would be so much better if you could send them to us ahead of time.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no. We thank you for saying that. Um, I want to let you know that all of these questions, whenever I interview them, I love to ask them questions um on camera because they don't get a list of questions, they just answer it as we go. And I just think that it is a more organic, realistic um viewpoint. So we have these questions. I have not shown them to them, but we're gonna start with some easy ones.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:First question how long you guys been married?
SPEAKER_01:All right, so we've been married for 10 years. It'll be 11 in March.
SPEAKER_00:Coming up real soon.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, coming up real soon.
SPEAKER_00:11 in March, okay. 2015. Yeah. And just to um lay the foundation, it's safe to say that both of you are still in your 30s, correct?
SPEAKER_05:Almost I am.
SPEAKER_00:I'm almost out of the way.
SPEAKER_05:I'm in the thick of them.
SPEAKER_00:But you're in your 30s. We're in our 30s early. These are these are young people by today's standards. So I just want to kind of lay that foundation.
SPEAKER_05:Wait, wait a minute. I'm a young person by today's standard.
SPEAKER_00:No way. Really?
SPEAKER_05:I'm just saying, I'm just putting it out there.
SPEAKER_00:We can make you disappear, no one will find you. Okay, so with that being um said, um who's the saver and who's the spender of the family?
SPEAKER_05:Saver.
SPEAKER_00:Saver.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, savor, savor.
SPEAKER_00:Spender, spender, spender, spender. Okay, and how has that worked for you guys?
SPEAKER_05:We fussed about this. It's more no, I'm kidding.
SPEAKER_00:I'm kidding. Yeah, how does that work for you guys?
SPEAKER_05:Um, you want to start? You want me to start? I was hoping you would start. I'll start. So I I think it's worked. Okay. Um, but I think it's worked because we've had some. I think it's worked because usually um the spender is the one that's like, you're trying to control me, you're trying to like stop me from having fun. But I think I approached it, and I'm interested to see if you agree, but I think I approached it with a lot of humility.
SPEAKER_03:Humility?
SPEAKER_05:Humility and recognizing that she was way better at it than me. Okay. Humility and recognizing that we're not going to get to better unless I move closer to her versus her moving closer to me. And so, with that humility, it's been like, hey, how did you do this? How are you doing this? How does this make sense? And I think from her foundations, I don't want to be the stupid one in the room. So then I go research a bunch of stuff so that like I can add some to the conversation. And and through that, I think we've both been, we've both have she's naturally, I'm more learned in pursuing how to be better with money.
unknown:I like that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. You agree?
SPEAKER_05:Did I lie?
SPEAKER_01:No, I think that's true. I think so. How does it how is it working with him being the spender and me being the saver? I think it's been good because I think we like he mentioned he he's learning, he's learned about savings, but I've also learned about spending because the other side of the coin of like being a super saver is essentially you're a hoarder, right? Like you have to the the point of having money is not to just like have it. The point of having money is to be able to use it as a tool. And so I have learned a little bit more about kind of letting go and not having this um the mindset of like, you know, gotta store, got a store, gotta store. Kind of like uh well, even squirrels know that they store for a reason, right? Wow, we want the squirrels. Okay. I was gonna say storing like a squirrel, but even stores, even squirrels know, like, okay, this is so that I can eat later. Okay. Um, but but if you're just saving just to save, that doesn't really make sense. So I've also learned to to be more mindful about why, like setting a goal and setting a intention for what I'm saving for. Um, sometimes I'm just saving just to save because I don't have the intention yet. Okay. But but he has helped me in that way. So I think we've learned from each other. Um, not to say that we have not run into some.
SPEAKER_05:I think I had a lot more learning to do though than you did.
SPEAKER_01:It's a lot easier to learn to spend than it is.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I would say that.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay. So um understanding that just because there are differences in the way you handle as a couple, that does not eliminate you from achieving your goals because you just have to figure out how to work with one another and basically embrace each other's strength.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. And that's the hard part. Like, I think a lot of times we get married for love and we find out that marriage is like, nope, I'm not just gonna fix love, I'm gonna fix everything about you, or like work on or put pressure on everything about you. And um I I think if you kind of talk about like traditional marriage and how it goes, um I think we all have goals and desires, and it's like, I want to do this dream and I want to do that dream, but really what may be unlocking your dream or holding your dream back is some of these other disciplines that we don't want to talk about. So, you know, as we kind of talk, I I probably go through more of your questions, like just because of what I've learned through her, like a lot of the stuff we have is is what we would have. Otherwise, we would just be like, not yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm sure you're gonna go ahead.
SPEAKER_05:And I and I don't want to like make it sound like oh, it's all figured out. Like, this is a continuous journey, a continuous seasonal journey, a continuous annual journey. Okay. Because as soon as you drop the habits and stuff that we've learned to be true, you're right back to where you started.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And so it's it's not something where you set it and forget it. It's a rigor that you have to continue to fight yourself to do, no matter how uncomfortable, no matter how you much you don't want to do, or to think you have it under control, because money is something that's alive and well. And if you don't manage it, it will find a place to go.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Kind of like life. If you don't manage it, you're gonna die. And money, I mean, really, if you don't manage your money, it's going to die.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay, that makes sense. So now that we've established how where you guys are, who you guys are, um, I want to ask the question. It seemed like you guys just fell off the grid for about five months. It's where have you been? We haven't had a podcast or anything. So what have you guys been doing? Fill us in. We want to know.
SPEAKER_05:Life has been lifing.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:We've also we've also um had our baby. So baby Christina Michelle is here. So that's been a thing in and of itself, and then also just getting our sea legs under us, like having three kids and having two toddlers, which is not toddlers, two young men and an infant changes things. Like right now, we're like watching the clock to see how much time we can get of our sleeping. We tried to time it perfectly, but you know, we'll see.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, all of what you said, and and just uh, like you said, get our C legs. So, you know, that that's a huge dynamic that's changed in our family, our personal life, but um also just the other transitions that are happening simultaneously. So um, yeah, just trying to maintain all the things we already had, which y'all know our plate was already full.
SPEAKER_05:So yeah, and I mean like the pregnancy wasn't like super perfect, like it would have some ups and downs in it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And you know, you just have all the other responsibilities of life working and the well and juggling those balls. And when I saw the balls in the air, I said, which one could we, which one's gonna hit the ground this month? Yeah, okay. It was y'all. No, I'm kidding. But it was. Um, so we're we're looking at we're looking forward to getting back into it. And like I always say and maintain, like I love our conversations, yeah. And so we're hopefully get back into a rigor of having that go consistently again. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So if it feels a little weird today, if it feels like we're a little tired, it's probably because we are, but we're gonna get it together.
SPEAKER_00:Get it together together. Okay, so um, again, like I said, I was the one that initiated this um sit-down and talk. I wanted to discuss just um how you guys have navigated life and how you, you know, just basically got here to be who you are. Um, and we're not talking about your personal life, we're just basically talking about how you achieved your dreams. And so the first question I have is why did y'all agree to sit down and talk with me?
unknown:Oh.
SPEAKER_00:Because I know, I know, well, yeah, when I spoke with one of you, they're like, I don't know if I want to talk about it. Why did you guys finally agree?
SPEAKER_05:Well, for me, okay, I I am so people will say I am a closed-off person, but I believe that if you're bold enough to ask, I'll tell you whatever you want to know. And so it's never it there, I don't think there's a question out there where I'll be like, oh, I don't know if I want to say that. So that's not me. Okay. Um, and then also I know that it's something that we enjoy and something that I think I hope people out there enjoy. So I wanted to get back into it. And what easier way to get back into it without having to come up with topics than to have somebody else drop.
SPEAKER_01:I like it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I eventually got over myself because I'm like, uh, I don't know. Like so I was the person she talked to about this. Um, and and I I I don't think I was mentally ready, but you know what? Sometimes you just gotta start, you have to just do it. And I think for me, this was just restarting um because we've been just so off schedule with this. And then the other thing is what I'm learning is that some of the things that we have experienced and some of the things that we continue to go through, other people can learn from it. Some people, you know, there's levels like we still are aspiring to more and better, and you know, we won't even get into the stuff that we don't know anything about. We can only talk about what we know, which can help someone. Okay. Because people are people maybe like wishing they just had access to this kind of information.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, all right. And I like that. I absolutely um like that because my question, my next question, which falls right in the line of it, is who had the vision of the well? And we're gonna do a two-part here because um, of course, I know that answer, but I want to know how the other person, did the other person actually see it? And the reason why I'm going through this is because so often with couples, yeah, one person has a vision. One person says, okay, we can do it, we can do it, and the other person is dragging their feet. So with the well-being what it is, the question is who came up with the vision and was the other one right on board and say, Yes, we can do this.
SPEAKER_05:So the vi so one weird thing about us, and I think people I think every I think people, I think people get everything about us backwards. Okay. Like everything you think that I am, she probably is, and everything you think she is, I probably am.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And in this, and in this, in just about every instance, anything visionary that we've done has been her idea. And so I'm just the groundwork to make it happen.
SPEAKER_01:Well, he I call him the heavy. He's the he's the he's the muscle behind all of it because I can dream up a bunch of stuff. I can dream all day, but if you don't have someone who can make sense of your ideas and actually develop it into a feasible concept and make it work, then it's still a dream. Okay. So um I always say, like people, I try to give him credit that, you know, yeah, it was my idea, but it was his implementation of it. And I think that kind of builds on the strengths that both of us have. Um, which I guess a lot of this conversation is gonna be around that. Um, which it it took, it took a little time for us to learn like who is is who, what we bring to the table. Okay. Um, but me with my, oh, I have an idea, or what do you think about? Um, like it's always it's it's always the ideation that happens here. Okay. But he's like, okay, like let's make it make sense. Like, okay, you said all of this stuff, but like make it concrete.
SPEAKER_05:And I always have trouble with making things concrete, but he First of all, I don't have any of those wrinkles in my forehead when I say those things.
SPEAKER_01:I don't have any of these wrinkles. Um but yeah, you you're the concrete person, and I'm always like the whoo, more a bit more whimsical.
SPEAKER_05:The one one nuance to your question though is that when she first told me about it, I'm a very realistic person. So I look at her life, I'm like, that ain't gonna happen. Like, I'm supportive and like, oh, that's great. That sounds amazing, but I don't see how it's gonna happen. So my support of the idea probably didn't look like support until there was a path in which I saw that it could happen. Does that make sense? Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I didn't feel that you weren't supportive. Oh, I did a good job then. Of hiding.
SPEAKER_05:Well, not that. It's just like I support your like so it came to her in a dream. So I support your dream, and I believe that if it came from God, it's gonna happen. But it's not like I was, oh, let's figure out how to make this happen. It was more like, okay, great, we'll store that away and we'll see when the creek rise. And then when we moved here, we weren't thinking about it. Like, it wasn't until like we we had the opportunity to purchase the building that it really began. Oh, okay, this could be that, and this can work like this, and this can go there. Do you agree?
SPEAKER_01:Um no. Okay. I thought about it every day, almost every day. Yeah. Only because it I was like trying to look for signs. Like, where when is this gonna happen? Where is this gonna happen? All of this stuff. Still one, it was like really strongly in me to want to do it, but I also did not see the path. I also was like, okay, you gave this to me, Lord, but nothing in my life is looking like this is gonna happen. And it wasn't until we got here or we were about to move here. I was like, oh, it makes so much more sense here than it does there. Because here is Mississippi, there is Atlanta. Okay. Um, so here in Canton, it made so much more sense because there was nothing like it. Atlanta, it just there was what I felt there was so much competing everything, not just competing in that space, but for people's attention, there's so much going on. And so I didn't it just didn't feel like it was happening there. Um, and then I guess once we moved here and we saw the the the cost of living was a lot different than it was there, it just felt a little more tangible. So um, and this move, as y'all know, would have never we we were not anticipating moving here, but when we when the opportunity came, it was like oh, like like all of the things that didn't align, it all of a sudden was like here you go.
SPEAKER_05:That's crazy you thought about it that often because like I was kind of on a side out of mind for me.
SPEAKER_00:It was true, that's true. It was her dream.
SPEAKER_05:And you first you first had the thought or the idea in what year?
SPEAKER_01:Uh about 2016 or so.
SPEAKER_05:2016. That's one year after we met. Or one year after we got married.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no, it was before because I remember when you guys were dating. She was sitting at the table and she told she was talking about the concept. And my words were I don't understand it, but if that's what you want to do, you just because it was it was such a hard concept to visualize. And I think this is the reason why I wanted to have the podcast, because so often if you are not used to dreaming or having a vision or being taught how to get to the next step, you have no clue. Because when if she told me, and let's say if I was married to her, I'd be like, that's crazy. Well, let's move on to the next thing because I couldn't see it. But once you guys started putting it, or I should say, when God started putting it together, it became so clear. And now it's like this is exactly what she was talking about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know? Yeah. That's funny. Like, I couldn't remember the exact time frame, but I know it's been at least since 2016.
SPEAKER_00:I'll tell you exactly. It was um, it was at Sturdevent Drive. We were in the dining room, you were sitting at the far corner, Vernon was here, I was over here, and his dad was at the front of the table, and you were sitting there talking about this dream that you had about um this wellness and fitness center, and it was not just about being physically well, but financially, mentally, and physically well. And I'm just like, Wow.
SPEAKER_02:That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I mean, because it was so unusual that it stood out. Yeah, and again, the fact that it stood out just further said this ain't gonna happen.
SPEAKER_05:That well, that was a weird conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I wouldn't kill your dream. I'm like, you know, I'm I'm not I realize I'm not a visionary, so I have learned so much from the two of you just doing life because that vision part is just not a part of me. But we have so many people out here who they want something, but they don't know how to get there. And so this is why I wanted to have the podcast to talk about did you guys know this is the path, or did you guys stumble into the path, or did God lead you into the path? That is a question for both of you to answer.
SPEAKER_01:I think it was a combination of well, it felt like stumbling. Okay, but in hindsight, it was leading.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. Very good.
SPEAKER_01:Um it yeah, it definitely felt like stumbling because we were trying to I I so okay. I'm thinking about like the health coaching and all of that stuff.
SPEAKER_05:Oh wow, I didn't even think about that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there's been like little teeny steps that have happened here or there. Um I mean, my my previous work was in the So wellness space works at Wellness. For those who really you know know me in real life, that's what I was doing for a long time. Spent 10 years in that area. Um, and along that way, I earned some different certifications. So I became very familiar with wellness. But so so that was there. Um, but it was kind of like a oh, it just sounds interesting. Let me try that or let me do this. And I actually started a coaching business at one point in time, which I have, I don't know, I just didn't have the consistency to keep that going. And then um, we also had the real just real estate. So part of this is like owning what you have, right? Um, and I learned a lot about finances and um just how to build wealth kind of when I was in that space, in that real estate space. So I think kind of all of these different experiences in these different worlds, and then right place, right time, having the money, and then the Lord really just like moving a whole bunch of stuff out of the way to get us here. I think that that really helped. Because um, I mean, when we sold our house, like a lot of that, a lot of the money that we made from selling the house ended up being putting us in a position to be able to buy this. So yeah, I will say it felt like stumbling, but in hindsight, it was definitely divine-led.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, and you I think it's some stumbling. I think it's also some um what were the other options?
SPEAKER_00:Was it um you stumbled into it? Did God lead you there, or did you have the vision and you worked towards it?
SPEAKER_05:I I think it's it's stumbling and us strategically making what we thought were good decisions for this, but it ultimately led over there. So I think it's stumbling and strategy down the path that was already set forward. Okay, so we think we smart, but it's like the path is there, you just doing what I expected you to do to get you to where I expected you to be.
SPEAKER_00:Explain that because I mean there are so many people out here who don't know the story, don't know your story.
SPEAKER_05:So we're great. So we we bought our first house. Um going all the way back. We bought our first house. Wait. 2014, somewhere around that. We bought our first house, and in the midst of doing that, it was a fixer upper. So we fix it up, we get it looking really, really good, and then another house in the same neighborhood is is listed for sale. Okay, and it sits there and it sits there and it sits there and it sits there. I'm like, babe, I think we could flip this house. Like, I think we could buy it and like flip it and make some money off of it.
SPEAKER_00:The house that no one wanted.
SPEAKER_01:The house that literally, no, it sat on there for like months.
SPEAKER_05:It was a great house though.
SPEAKER_01:It was a great house.
SPEAKER_05:What I what I didn't tell her is that like it wasn't gonna be like, hey, we just flip it and we still live in our nice house. It was like, no, we're gonna move to that house and sell no well, rent out the existing house that we had. So we ended up doing that after she got on board, which took some time.
SPEAKER_01:Can I even can I tell you how I got on board?
SPEAKER_05:Yes, hear that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so um one of my friends from college, she actually has a business around real estate. And she and she and her husband, they had done um a house hack, is what it's called. So I've heard of this concept before, but I never knew somebody who did it. Where essentially they they moved, they bought a quadruplex, a four-unit home, and they they rented out their their primary home, moved into one of the units in the fourplex, and then rented out the other ones. And at that point, like not only is their mortgage payment being paid, but they're making like money hand over fist. And I was like, babe, like did you know that they're doing this? And then he was like, I was like, Well, can we you know do this? And he's like, Yeah, and at the same time, he had already thought about buying this house. Like, it just took me a long time. It took me a back way to get there.
SPEAKER_05:I had already thought about it, brought it to her, and got shot down.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03:It's true.
SPEAKER_05:But now, since this since her friend was doing it, now it's a great idea. But, anyways, so we move out of our nice house that we just got done renovating. Okay, we buy the wreck, which was a wreck, and we live there, and then we rent out our original house to a med school student.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, medical students, yeah. Yeah, med school student.
SPEAKER_05:We fix up that house, um, get that one ready to go, we put that on the market, we move back to our first house.
SPEAKER_00:Can I ask a question? Because you guys have a few kids in between somewhere. So where were the I mean, if you're living in a wreck, where are the kids? In a wreck?
SPEAKER_01:Oh okay. Let me just qualify this because they're gonna call defects on. Um so 2014 we bought the house A. We'll call House A. House A. And then in 20 the White House. That's the White House, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:We bought Doo Doo Brown. Yes, right. That's the second house. House B was Doo-Doo Brown, though.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Okay, so House B we bought in like 2016 or so. Okay. Wait a minute, when was Fernborn? No, it had to be, it had to be later. Anyway, I was pregnant with our first child when we bought that house.
SPEAKER_05:And when he was born, we could have just we could have just left that part out.
SPEAKER_01:Bless our souls.
SPEAKER_05:We could have just left that part out.
SPEAKER_01:I brought my sweet little baby infant, days old baby.
SPEAKER_05:So what had happened was she was late getting the baby out. Or early. Which one was it?
SPEAKER_00:It was only four days. I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_05:She was if she would have, if it would have came out when it's supposed to come out, everything would have been done.
SPEAKER_01:No, because it wasn't done when he came. Yeah. Anyway, the point is, the point is, we my husband did not understand how babies come. It was our first kid. Yeah, in the sense of like they don't come exactly on their due date. He is scheduled for people to come in and do a so she has a beautiful home to come back to. Yeah. Anyway, went in there for the induction, had the baby, came out, and the house is still a wreck. I mean, like, it's it's it's dust everywhere, plastic.
SPEAKER_05:And like it was bad. It was it was bad.
SPEAKER_00:Because you had them paint the kitchen cabinets. I paint everything. Sand and paint.
SPEAKER_05:Sand and paint the kitchen cabinets, redo the floors, yeah, repaint the outside, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, outside, yeah. And there's a few more projects in there too. And for the ladies who have had babies, y'all know you go through this nesting period, and you're like, the whole thing is about getting your home right and ready for the baby. It is just a crazy thing that happens. And so I'm like literally like three o'clock in the morning, like vacuuming, everything was set, everything was ready when we left the house. Yeah, we came back to the house, it was a mess. And I was like, oh, where is my baby gonna go? Yeah, so we worked it out.
SPEAKER_05:You want to live with your family for a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:I went to my parents' house for a while with the baby, and he he got them through the renovations because they they messed up. It was supposed to be done, but they messed up because they spilled that um paint thinner on the floor, and then they had to replace the rest of the floor. Yeah. So he tried, but it was yeah. Anyway, so that happened.
SPEAKER_05:They do the renovation. Okay. And what I'm thinking is this is probably gonna be an episode about the story first, and then the next one will probably be about all the tips of how we get through it because we're kind of going long, you think?
SPEAKER_00:No, no, no. Actually, actually, I was thinking that this one could be called the dream. Okay. Because everyone has a dream, and it sounds like we're kind of leading in the direction of the dream. Um, again, I don't think that you have to necessarily do the financial part. It's just the having your finances in order is what's gonna get you to your dream.
SPEAKER_03:Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00:So I just want everyone to kind of understand that as you walk through life, you don't have to have all the details. You just have to have everything in place, which is, I shouldn't say everything, but just have the most important things in place. God, your finances, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So we um we renovate the second house. Okay, we sell that, okay, we move back into the first house.
SPEAKER_00:House A, house B, house. Okay. You what'd you do with the renter? Let them stay there too?
SPEAKER_05:Well, no, so it it lined up perfectly. And I and I mean when you rent your place, like you can like tell them when to get out.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And so um we it was like a year lease or whatever, and so we had a year to get this property together while we were living in it.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_05:And um, as we started getting towards the end, of course, the pace increases because we gotta get stuff done. Right. And all the timing kind of lined up. So we got that house sold. What?
SPEAKER_01:I was thinking about how like be being pregnant and trying to paint walls. And I'm sorry, it was just if y'all know we gotta show you some of these photo albums.
SPEAKER_05:It is crazy. I just um but we moved back into house A. And how long do we stay in house A? Is it about another year? Maybe a year, and then um I think the heart housing market was doing really, really well. And maybe a few of the other houses in the neighborhood sold, and I was like, babe.
SPEAKER_03:Oh god. Cash out.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, it's two, it's twofold.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So first thing was like, it's time to cash out. Second thing was like a lot of the systems in the house were like nearing the end, like air conditioner, furnace, water here, and it was like, babe. Yeah, either you stay in, stay in, or it's time to go. Okay. And so we put on the market, sold it, and then we moved to another house, house C. And house C was beautiful, it was finished, it didn't need any work. That was um in Lil Burn. Big house.
SPEAKER_01:The one we left right before. Yeah, the big big house. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So we lived there for a little while and just been so many I can't keep up.
SPEAKER_05:It just enjoyed life and enjoyed not having to do a lot of um a lot of necessary improvement projects. Um, and then when the housing market was at was at its highest again, it coincided with the timing for us to move here to Mississippi. And so we sold that house and then we moved here.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So were you guys always on the same um page as far as he's just gonna bae? And oh yes, okay, let's do it. I gotta sound like that. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. I'm now because so many couples, the issue they have is she wants to do this, he wants to do that, and they're just afraid of the middle. So, how do you guys, how did you guys get there?
SPEAKER_01:So the how we got there was completely unrelated to the houses. Okay. So what ended up happening, there was some, it was something going on with the photography business. You may not even remember this. But yeah, because we've been doing a whole business. Yeah, the photography business. Yes, we had that. We had real estate, we had the coaching, we had all a lot of stuff going on. But um I remember there was a I think it was related to photography. I know there was a conversation that we had one day where he said he was he wanted to do something, and I was kind of like, eh, uh, maybe, you know, and he says he was very angry. That was a job. Oh, maybe that was a very good one.
SPEAKER_02:We were dating, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Were we dating? We weren't married then. I think we were yeah, I think we were married then. He was like the one thing that I need from you.
SPEAKER_05:So it was a it was like a director level job, and I was like really early in my career. Okay. And so I tell her, I was like, hey, babe, this job looks really, really cool. It's something I think I can do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:What'd you say?
SPEAKER_01:I was like, uh, I mean, you know, it's like you're gonna jump from here to here. You know, it was just it was in my mind, okay, the feasibility was not the timing and the feasibility wasn't there.
SPEAKER_05:I was ready to cut you off then. Really, really rough conversation.
SPEAKER_01:It was a really rough conversation. I think we're married. Really? I think we had to be married because you didn't cut me off.
SPEAKER_05:I think we I didn't cut you off because we talked through it. Like, anyways, it was a really rough conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's how mad he was about it. But he's like, the one thing that I need from you is to like the world, there's enough people to tell me that I can't do things. I need you to always be the one to encourage me and to let me know that I can do it. Like, if you say I can do it, I can do it. Noted, and from that point forward, like I've been like I took that seriously.
SPEAKER_00:And so wait a minute, let's go back because we gotta get inside your mind. Why why did you because so many men scream, holler, and are begging their women to be that support. What most women are like, whatever. What why are you so different?
SPEAKER_01:Why am I so different? Yeah, well, I mean, I love him, and I didn't want like because it was so like he was mad, like he doesn't really get mad at me like that, and he was mad. And so, like, I I I heard him very loudly, very clearly, like, this is what he needs from me. And I don't know, I guess I did have a choice. Like, I could have said, Oh, he just but for some reason, like I understood that and I took it really, really seriously. And I think it's just because of the way that it came. And um, yeah, from that point, I was like, I I that is my job. My job is if if my job is always to encourage because if if he knows that I got it, I have his back, then you'll break down walls, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So, okay, so I got another question then, and this is turning into a marriage seminar. Yeah, let me ask you, let me ask you this then. So in the midst of being in that space with him, in the in the midst of being in that space with him, why would you tell him not to apply for the job? Because if they tell him no, it's okay. But if you tell them no, it's different. So what was in your mind at that moment when you said no, don't go for that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, I didn't I didn't, yeah, I didn't say no, but it just it was we were super early career. I've it felt like going from individual contributor. Yeah. Now I would use that language, but then I wouldn't. It felt like going from the first job after college to running the company, and it felt like there needed to be some more steps in there, like there was some growth that had to happen. And it's not to say that it didn't, but if he if he knew that I was on his side, like it wouldn't have mattered. Like he could have gotten that job, he could have, he could have tried and failed, but it wouldn't have mattered because I had his back.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um he could have tried and succeeded, and it would, and then it wouldn't have.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, I guess the question that I'm asking is this. I know it had to come from a place of love from you know, just as women. Yeah, but for so many women, they find themselves at that place. Is that because you feel as though? I mean, you are um, you do right, you you take steps and you follow steps. Is it because you felt as though because he was at an entry level, he had to do the next level, he had to do the next level, he had to do the next level. Was it just because of who you are? Um, and not necessarily, you know, the fact that you didn't feel as though he could do it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was more me. It was more, it just there seems to be a process. Like there seems to be steps. Okay. And so, yeah, that was more like I wouldn't have jumped to a from a just entered the workplace from being an intern. I would not have even thought to go to a C-suite level job from there.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Whereas he's like, why not?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So they're crazy enough to give me the job, I'll take it.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I think that is huge when it comes down to couples because so often a man will hear that, oh, she doesn't think I can do it. When she's not saying that, she's just saying that my experience has been that there are steps required to get there. And so in the midst of it, um, I guess for the men out there, if you don't feel as though you're being supported, you may want instead of getting angry, but it worked for you, but instead of getting angry, it may be find out where it's coming from.
SPEAKER_05:But but I think also there's a responsibility there too. Okay. Um, and it's twofold.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:One thing I want to say is just because she took that approach in that instance, like there's also been other instances where she's like, that idea is stupid, don't do it. Like, so it's not just, hey, we're gonna just do it, like, or she's not just blindly running after whatever I say. There have been multiple occasions that I could think of off the top of my head where she's told me no.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Um, but then also I think um if you are going to request that from your spouse, like, not that you bet not fail, but you you better have your stuff together too. Um, so like let's let's play out a situation. Like if you say, hey, I'm gonna do this, and now because she went against herself and supported you, she never sees you and the kids never see you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_05:Maybe she was right in that you shouldn't have done that. So I think there's responsibility both ways on that. Um, but I think the big thing is that part of the specialness of her is that she recognizes moments. Like every moment, and I wish she wasn't here to hear this, but every moment she said yes was great, and the moments where she said no were absolutely right.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_05:I may not see that um in the moment, and I may not see that yeah, when I want to make a joke, but like it she was absolutely right in those instances.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay, all right. And I and I think that says a lot that he can go back and actually admit that. I wouldn't tell her that to her face though. We already know she was always right because the woman always is.
SPEAKER_01:And the other, I think the other thing that kind of stood out from that conversation is that he did compare, like, I have there are enough people in the world to tell me I can't do something. And I was like, oh my God, like what am I what am I doing? Like I'm tearing him down, and like what is what why couldn't he do it? You know, like I I had to face that and realize like I don't want to be the person that tears my home apart because I was um put projecting my fears on him. So I was like, we're not doing that anymore.
SPEAKER_00:So I think for me, from what I what I'm gathering from this, and just to give um a little nugget of wisdom for the people out there viewing, if ever you find yourself in a place like that, the first question each of you should ask yourself is why am I feeling this way? In other words, um, you know, as she said, well, you just that's just not how business works. But the question is, well, what if it works in this moment? But of course, I do think that God uses moments like that because I think it has certainly concreted your marriage. Because now, like she said, I don't want to tear you down, and Lord knows you had a lot of vision and dreams. So bless her heart for you know sticking by you and supporting you in that, because that that's huge. Just it's hard.
SPEAKER_05:And and the support she gave on one hand is what created her dream on the other.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh talking.
SPEAKER_05:About the case. You can turn that down, or you can you can kill you can kill the dream in that moment. Yeah. But that moment turns into well, I'm not willing to take a chance, quite frankly, on trying to carry two mortgages and getting house B. And if you don't get house B, then you don't get house C. And if you don't get house C, you don't buy the well. That's right. So it's kind of like each step has turned into the other step.
SPEAKER_00:Ooh. Speak on that, Desiree. I'm trying to think of what to say. Um, but that was perspective.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, it it was a that was a foundational conversation. Like if that conversation had not happened, I don't I agree. Then none of the other stuff would have happened. Um, because it it made me realize how important that was. And he has ex like blown my expectations out of the water as far as in all of the things that we've done. I've I'm the brakes, he's the gas. It's always been that way. And so when I'm trying to, when I'm thinking like, oh we gotta pump the brakes, he's like, no, it's go, let's go. And you need both to drive a car. You need you need we are both in in place for a reason. But I mean, my just our life has blown my mind because I never thought that I'd be living any of these different things, but um, because I chose to listen to him and we chose to believe in my husband, um here we are.
SPEAKER_00:So, how hard has it been? Would you say it was hard, easy, or how would you describe life with him? And then how would you describe life with her? Um, and I'm just talking from the perspective of your dreams and you know your accomplishments. I lost all my hair since I've been with her. Go ahead, baby.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you you started asking how has has it been easy? Yeah. Um, I think not in the beginning. I think it has it's like a muscle. Like you have to develop it. The you have to develop that. Like you have to keep trying, keep trusting, which has been Can I add to that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So real life, um, developing the muscle. So we start out, she's a great saver, she's teaching me, and she doesn't spend any money. The only money she spends is on travel.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:She's like, I save all my money so I can go travel where I want. And so, student and master, I come to her one day, I'm like, hey, if we pay off all of our cars or something, like something crazy like that, then we can like free up all of this money. And she was like, Great, that's a great idea. You know, you're saving first, amazing. I love what you're saying. And so I go down the spreadsheet and she's like, Well, what's what's this line item right here? And it was, we we'll talk about it probably another episode. But we we had different accounts for different goals, and one of them was travel. Okay, and so I was like, Well, if we just cut your healthy travel button.
SPEAKER_01:It went from we're saving towards travel, so we had a little nest egg or whatever from the travel to zero. Like he done went for any dollars towards the thing that I enjoyed the most. And I was like, no, this is not.
SPEAKER_05:But I sold her on the vision. I was like, if you, if we just, you know, take this healthy number and bring it down a little bit, then we can pay off these things in a few months. It's old framing. And I saw a version of my wife that I've never seen before. Because I think I'm doing good.
SPEAKER_01:And she oh, I get a number. She clutched her purple. I'm like, I don't spend money on shopping, I don't do this, I don't do that. And the one thing that I do, you're just gonna take it from me. Yeah, it was not a good that was.
SPEAKER_05:But through conversation and through prayer. I don't know what you I don't know what you did, but eventually you came around.
SPEAKER_00:She gave it up for a little bit.
SPEAKER_05:No, I think she had very clear, okay, we're gonna do this for this many months, and this better happen as a result of it.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, okay. Yeah, I think you clarified, you said it's only gonna take this time, this amount of time. And I was like, okay, and I'm adding up the cost in my mind, right?
SPEAKER_05:Which once again, you know, if we talk about the responsibility of the moment, have a difficult conversation. But if I'm gonna ask her to give up something important to her, it better work.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And so I have a responsibility to make sure those things get paid off and make it sure that life is better as a result of that sacrifice. Because if not, you never trust that decision again. That's true. That's true.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and you did, so we're good.
SPEAKER_05:I lived to tell about it.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so then let me ask you guys this.
SPEAKER_05:I messed all your questions up, I'm sure. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Are we still on? Yeah, you're still going. Yeah. Um, so first question. Are you guys rich?
SPEAKER_05:I would say no.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Did you say yes?
SPEAKER_01:It's an interesting question. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I don't feel rich.
SPEAKER_01:It don't feel rich, but we we have a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think that you have a lot? Well, let me ask you this. In the beginning, when you started, would you say you had a lot? Or do you think it was the good stewardship that brought you to where you are right now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay. No, we neither of us, I don't think we were either born with the silverspill. Silverspill. You weren't. Um the month every I don't even know if we were, I don't think we were gifted any money.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, here.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. We weren't gifted anything. So we for through over life have earned money. Because I save most of the money that I earned went into something, and eventually that turned into being able to purchase the first house. Okay. Um that was that was a down payment.
SPEAKER_05:Um but I think much more growth happened as a result of stewardship, and specifically what that looks like is sitting down with your budget and ensuring that X number of dollars per month is going towards saving. I think you were very, very keen on we're not gonna we're not gonna live to both of our means. Um, we're gonna be able to if if the rubber, if if stuff hits the fan, we should be able to make it on one salary.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_05:That was a decision. And then also with everything that was left over, um, we tithe first. So that that was a transition for me because I wasn't a tither, but that was a non-negotiable and a requirement of marriage, I found. Okay. Um so tithing is first. And then I think a huge topic is prioritization of money.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And so a lot of times we say we want to save, we say we want to travel, we say we want to do these things, but if you look at how how you spend your money, it'll tell you what's important. Think about if you're living in, I don't use the word poverty, but if you're living and there's more days in a month and money that you have.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:If if you're working that out, you know I could pay this this time because they're gonna cut this off first, and I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna do it. You have prioritization for your money. The same things and principles that we use when we're in that kind of strenuous environment to just get by is the same discipline that we need when we have a little bit more to say, I want to save money. Well, is that what you do first with it? Or do you pay your bills with it? Or do you do everything else, or do you travel with it and then see what's left over? And so we've kind of created a system collectively of getting the ties out of the account first as soon as it comes in, um, getting the bill set aside that those have to take place, the bills that we have to pay. Um, and then from there, we go down our prioritization list to say what's important. Okay, are we gonna say are we in a saving period, or maybe we're in a traveling period, or maybe we're just in a spending period, like that happens, or maybe we're in a period where we haven't done the rigor to go through those things and we're just seeing what happens at the end of the month, and we've spent a lot of time in that. Um, but for creating the plan, when we're trying to build what what it is that we're building, we need a plan for the money. Because if you don't come up with a plan, the plan will the money will plan for itself and it's usually out of your pocket.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Okay. And and I I like that because so often when people come, especially people who aren't a part of the well, and you guys will be standing there and they'll be asking questions and they'll come to me. And I'm sitting up there, I'm like, no, I don't, I don't own none of this. Uh, because most people think, okay, well, she's older, so she gave them the money. And I just want to go on record to say, no, everything that you guys have accomplished, you have accomplished it on your own. And I just, I mean, I am learning so much, even at my tender age of 62, so much from you 30-year-olds who are out there working hard, figuring it out, getting it, and taking a chance on life. And so it's um, you know, when we start talking about our dreams, it's not just about what we can feasibly foresee. It it goes so much deeper than that because some of us, because everything isn't lined up, I don't know how and what and if I can even get there. But I think, as you said, the first step is to begin to work on getting your priorities in order, which of course kind of fits into the um money management workshop that you guys will be putting on in January, correct?
SPEAKER_05:And that's that's a another massive conversation because we see priorities very different. When we first got together, a huge priority for her was like, I want to get out of debt, I want to get these student loans paid, I want to get this down, I want to get this down. And for me, I'm like, these jokers don't be around forever. I'm not gonna waste the time and this is I'm not gonna waste the the time, the earning years I have paying that massive thing down. I would rather spend it on buying another property that may generate more money for me. And so we had to talk through a lot of those things to say, for this season, are we paying down debt or are we setting saving money for to buy another property or to buy something? Okay, because those are two very different things. And once you put your money toward your student loan, your monthly, your monthly recurring stays the same. Yeah, so it's like you're paying down principal, but so so we had to talk through those things and say, okay, for this season, we're gonna do this. And then once we got done with that first step, then it was like, okay, babe, um, we got the property, it's throwing off money, let's focus on your student loans, let's get those retired.
SPEAKER_01:And and I have to give you credit because I didn't realize it in that moment in time, but the fact that you did listen to me, that that was important. I appreciate you listening and actually taking action towards it. Um, because if you think about those two different schools of thought, it's not that one is right or wrong, it's just again, what is the priority right now? And I mean, like you said, earning years is you know, where do you want your money to go for that? But it was like weighing so heavily on me that every single month I had to go here, come Sally May. Sally May Sally May coming on up now's navy or whatever it is, but um, you know, every single month, and it was taking like such a huge chunk of my chip. I was like, I can't, this is uh, we gotta get rid of this. And so I appreciate you know you saying, okay, all right, it's important to you, let's get it done. And it took so much off of me as far as like it was which is weird to me. Like it was stressful to me. And I think it's just because it's just a bit well. Here's okay. So one thing that I didn't talk about is like kind of where the money ideas came from. And I I although we weren't gifted money, one thing that I will say, my parents did do a really good job of money principles, okay, like helping me to understand like this is money. I had a little checking account. I had to be probably about 10 years old, and it was it was fake. So it was like back in the day when we used to use checks, right? It was like a little checkbook. It was like play money, your your account was your parent.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, I can chisel for that, like stone tablets.
SPEAKER_01:I actually used an ink pen, thank you very much. But it was a checkbook, which is outdated at this point. Um, but it taught you how to write checks, balance your accounts, and all that kind of stuff. And that was just like one of my first understandings of okay, money in, money out, and this is how this works. Okay. Um, but in addition to that, my dad being the saver that he is, he's like, you know, you you always should live below your means because you just don't want to be stretched and and all of that. And so those things were kind of hammered in. And then at some point I got enrolled in this um, like a Bible-based uh financial workshop. So I learned a lot about money, far more than I realized most people never get that kind of an education. Exactly. And so all of these things were coming in that were forming my idea around what to do with this the green stuff, right? So um owing somebody money has always been a thing. Like I if I owe somebody money, I'm trying to pay it back. Okay. I because if somebody, if I lend somebody money, typically I'm lending because I just I have it and I plan to just like give it to them. But if somebody's expecting it to come back to them, like I don't want to hold that over them or over myself and not be paying it back. It was the same concept with Sally May at the time. I just couldn't, I'm like, I owe Sally so much money. I gotta get out of this.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay. So, so with your story, um, the dreams and everything, everything seems to line up, and flowers are growing, and you know, the birds are chirping. There had to be hard times. Yeah. So tell me about a time that you would visualize as being hard, Desiree. And then, Vernon, you tell me about a time that you would visualize as being hard. And how did you handle it? Yeah. Because the unexpected always happens.
SPEAKER_01:The unexpected does happen and did happen. Um, and you always got to be prepared for it to happen. Um, so the I guess the biggest thing was after we moved here and we had all this growth that we had experienced. Like growth, growth. So when we moved here, after we had sold our home, after we had purchased rental property, two rental properties, and our home. So we were able out of that, we were able to purchase all this. It's like, wow, talk about multiplication. This is great. And then we get a phone call that Vernon was laid off from his job. And we were like, oh crap, we bought all this stuff. What are we gonna do? We have all these extra things now that we're paying for.
SPEAKER_00:Now, did you have the well at the time?
SPEAKER_01:We had the well at the time. Oh, okay. Yep. Okay. So um thank you guys. No, it was just, I'm just, I just think, because God He knew all of these things were gonna happen. We were going to finance the well because that's what we do. You finance properties, right? And when I say finance, that means taking out a mortgage for maybe people aren't familiar with that term, but it means taking out a mortgage and you pay on an incremental basis on it. Up to that point, that's all we had known. Everything had a mortgage. But when we bought this building in the condition that it was in, the mortgage banker was like, I cannot give you a mortgage. It was just things were falling apart. Okay. Look up. Oh, there's the sun. He happened to come uh during a rainy time, so much rain, like it made the news, um, it made the news nationally, actually, because it was flooding in this area. So he came literally that weekend, and we were out of town, and he's like, Water is pouring from the ceiling. So we never even saw it for ourselves, but apparently water was pouring from the ceilings. He was like, I cannot finance this. I'm sorry, because if you have to get rid of it and sell it, we cannot do it. Okay. Um, so because we had purchased or we had sold our other house, we had this abundance of cash only because of God. I promise you, it was only the only God that allowed us to have that, and that's how we were able to purchase this. We did not finance because we couldn't finance. Okay. Um, and so we had paid for the well, but uh in in hindsight, after he was laid off, there was no way we were gonna be able to afford paying for our home, paying for the rental properties, and paying for the well. There was no way we were gonna be able to afford all of that on one salary. And so um again, the the leading guys leading, and some things didn't work out, and we thought it wasn't working out, and we were frustrated by it not working out, only to find out it was being worked out in that manner because there was something in the future that we were not aware of. Okay. And the Lord was like, I'm trying to protect you, just you know, just trust me, I got you over here. Um, but yeah, that was a really that was a tough season because all of that, all the talk that we had done about like living on one salary and all that stuff, we were actually doing that at that point. That was a lot. All right.
SPEAKER_05:I think mine is more of a seasonal comparison. Like before we came to Mississippi, I think everything was very smooth and insulated. Like it would have to be a pretty, really, really bad string of months and probably a year before we felt anything. We had to save that, we we had everything down pat, like we had the processes, money was stacking, like we were just doing really, really, really well. Um, and I feel like the Mississippi season is is more about like, do you trust me from a from God's perspective? And so a lot of the cushion and a lot of the um cushion and insulation and what the heck, because I mean, even if it goes wrong, we're still good. Like a lot of that has like been taken primarily by that that year almost of not having a job. Um, and so that that's been kind of a season of um issue or difference, or I don't even know what the adjective would be. And we're still in Mississippi, so it's still happening. So it's like, you know, um, I you that that season of abundance in Atlanta, you I guess you never realize that you're in it until you're out of it. Right. And um trusting God is not fun. Well, yeah, it's not fun, I'll be honest with you. It's not fun at all. So um, even in the midst of everything being taken care of, it's it's still like I think you get comfortable with the with an amount of margin.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And like, although things are good, it's like it's not the margin that we had before where it's like, hey, meteor hits the ground, we'll be all right. And so I think that's been a um entire experience of not going well. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00:It does, it does. So then basically what you guys are saying is that a lot of the, I guess, financial decisions that you have made along the way. Basically helped you in that season of the loss of the job?
SPEAKER_01:It was yes, but it was conceptual then. Conceptual. It was an idea, it was the idea that if we do these different things, then we'll be able to ride out if something happens.
SPEAKER_05:I had a budget spreadsheet of where we were, how we were gonna live our life. And then another tab that was worst case scenario. Like if we gotta batten down the hatches and cut all the crap and Netflix is turning off, like what does that look like? Can we really make it on one? Whichever salary is smaller, can we really make it on that? And it looks real cool and cute when it's on the spreadsheet. Yeah, but then when it's real life, you like it's time. It looks different. And so, you know, can like on paper versus actually living it are two completely different things. And and honestly, like the same God who gave us everything we had still sustained us through that time. So it wasn't like we were pinching pennies, like we still traveled, and I don't think the kids recognize anything being different, but it was just like once again, the margin you're used to is not a little bit tighter.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay, okay. So, so based on you guys um just process through life, what would you say to the person that makes the statement, I don't have no money, so I mean, what what is a financial workshop gonna help me do except be broke?
SPEAKER_05:I I think there's there's two there's two maybe three places you can find yourself. You can find yourself where you have more required bills than money. And with that, the only option you have is either to cut required bills, which is difficult, usually those are living expenses, or pick up additional jobs to make more money. So there's that bucket. Then you have the person who has more than they expect, but it's they still feel broke because of decision making and stewardship. Okay. There's that group of people. And then the third group of people is the person who like is completely oblivious to anything about their money. Just I swipe my card and I hope. Or, you know, I just as long as I'm not at zero at the end of the month or two days before the end of the month, I'm good.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And so uh a financial workshop, first of all, takes the mystery away from money, okay, which I think is the scariest step. Sometimes it's easier not to look at it. Um, but looking at it at least lets you know one, how bad it is, two, maybe it's not as bad as you think. Okay, but three, it lets you know how you ought to be living your life. Um, and so I I think the first thing is just creating a baseline of knowledge so you know what money you have. Because you'd be surprised. Like sometimes, even with think about our our busiest time. We'll have photography, we'll have the well, we'll have the rental properties, we'll have um our salaries. There are times we have no idea how much money is coming in.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And as a result of that, we have no idea how much we're spending. We just know at the end of the month things get tight and we're gonna cook at home. Okay. But it's like when you start to actually look at it, you're like, oh, wait, I'm spending$400 a month on just eating out after I spent$400 on groceries. Or it's like, I got this many um subscriptions that are just dinging the account time after time after time. Um, so it's really all about just having that first knowledge. Okay. Once you have the knowledge, you don't have to do anything with it, but at least you're not stupid. Right, right. You know why. Once you have that foundation of knowledge, well, now you can build your decision making on top. Maybe you're okay with the way your life is going. Cool, that's fine. Nothing wrong with that. Okay, but at least you know that I don't have, at least you know that I am where I am because I've decided to be.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Like when we talk about our savings goal, like it's one thing to say I have this student loan because I'm deciding to put money elsewhere. It's a whole nother thing to say, well, I never have enough money, and you look at it at it and you're like, no, you got a bunch of money.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Just somebody else is ripping you off because they're they've been swiping your card and you had no idea about it. Yeah, yeah. Like for a lot of us, we can have so we can have we can literally be identity frauded right now and have no idea because we're not watching.
SPEAKER_00:That is so true. That is so true. I I know for um just for myself, when I, you know, moved here, um, my husband and I, we were planning on buying a house. And we um had, you know, projected two years now in the way we would get a house. And after we took the financial workshop, that year turned into one year. And we actually were able to purchase a house and have money left over. And so basically, a lot of times the way we do business, business has changed. And so often, especially as older people, we still do business the old way. Whereas, you know, when you were younger, you sat up there and they said this is what it costs. Well, nowadays it's about competition. So you may be paying this, but now if you put forth a little effort to question, you could be paying a whole lot less or something, you know, different.
SPEAKER_05:Or, you know, you sign up for some TV server for$64. Yeah, it's been five years. Now you're paying$99 and have no idea because they just bumped you up and you missed the email, or you said you were gonna go back and look, and and before you know it, I got Prime, I got Netflix, I got Disney, I got this, I got that, and I ain't watching none of them.
SPEAKER_00:That is true. That is true. So I guess the next question, um, and we're getting ready to kind of bring this in, but who taught you guys how to do business? The business of home, the business of um the well, who taught you how did you guys get there for the dream that she had? Who said, okay, this is how we should run this business? Where did that knowledge come from?
SPEAKER_05:I I'm um I I think 25% is just giftedness and just I don't know how I know, I've never seen it. It's just it just pops in my mind. The remaining 75% is that sounds crazy. Let me go look it up. And so I spend a lot of time just researching and finding the right people to follow who are in different industries to say, how should this work? Um, so if you take the well, we have a fitness business, we have photography we do out of here, we have um private event rentals, and we have um online on-demand. So that's four different areas in which oh, and a podcast. Well, podcasts don't really make much, but uh, or anything really. But those are the four that are bringing in revenue.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And so each one of those four, I had to go and figure out well, how is this supposed to work? Like, how do how do I run this? How do I make it, and then how do I make it run efficiently so I can run this and it not impact my day job? And so there was a course I took on private event rentals. Like, how do they do this at scale? What's the best way to make money on it? There was a course I took on the fitness business. Like, how do you actually make money when fitness is probably the least consistent thing people do? Um, then there was the um photography. Like, I've took taken a bunch of classes on that or watched a bunch of videos on both the skill as well as the monetization of it. Um, it's just learning. And what you have to recognize and take take ownership of is there is no reason for anyone to say, I don't know. You may not desire to do the work to know, but in 2025 with YouTube, with masterclass, oh, with 2026, with YouTube, masterclass, all of the resources out here, you may know the wrong stuff or you may know incomplete, you may have an incomplete understanding, but the information is out there if you're willing to go look. And so everything that we've learned is are you willing to go look? We've taken this built complete building apart and rebuilt it. And much of it is spending four or five, six weeks researching, can I do that? Should I do that? What happens if I mess it up? I think I can do that.
SPEAKER_03:Baby, there I could do that.
SPEAKER_05:I think you could do that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you could do that.
SPEAKER_05:Like our first, our first private event rental. Um, I'm watching a video and they're like, Yeah, the most important part people don't think about is like, are the bathrooms nice? And our bathroom was a wreck.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05:So we tore it out so it was an empty room and just the sewer pipe in the floor. The weekend before, yeah, yeah, the the event was supposed to happen and put it back together. I don't know what I'm doing, but you know, you have the information out there, and if you read enough, they I have an intrinsic belief that certain groups of people are not smarter than me, they're just better trained. So if they if they could figure it out, I should be able to figure it out.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:What did did God make them differently than me? No, they're just trained. So if they can get the information, why can't I go get it? It's just are you willing to invest the time to do so?
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And there are things where it's like it doesn't make sense for you to do like elect heavy electrical.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Ain't gonna touch that because it's just not worth making a mistake, right? Right. But you know, small odds and ends stuff, yeah, like I can figure this out.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah. For me, I he's a YouTube university scholar. I pre prefer, I can be, but I prefer to be like in a classroom. Like I prefer like a traditional training. Um, and so, and so that is actually where I got a lot of my stuff. So um I don't even know. Again, I would just say it's Lord. There was literally a program for youth in business when I was growing up, and my parents found that they enrolled me, and I was in that for like what four or five years. And so I learned basic business principles at that time. Um wasn't interested, didn't really know if it was ever gonna be a thing, but I did it. Um, did some, I had a little business when I was in school selling candy and gum, like at school, you should shouldn't, you're not supposed to do that. So don't do that, kids. But or or do that, kids. I don't know, just figure out, make you know, a way where you can do it and not get yourself in trouble. But I used to do that. And so like there were always like little little things that I was into that helped learn the basics of business. Now, I admit there are still a lot of things that I sh could and should take responsibility for learning a bit more about, but I think that those foundational things helped to me to even be able to have conversations with him about these different things as he's learning. I'm like, oh yeah, I understand that. Um, and then we did have the formal training. You have a you went to school for business. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
SPEAKER_01:But he always forgets it because he doesn't val doesn't value in the same way um that traditional learning. Like in the classroom, he's gonna be like, I mean, I just I'm just here. Meanwhile, I'm like sponging it in. So um that's that's kind of how I learned, but then a lot of it was just trial error, to be quite honest.
SPEAKER_00:So then I guess my question, my next question would be why do you guys want to share? Because you find so many people who get to that place and they're afraid that the business is gonna take over their business, and so they're not gonna let, you know, they're not gonna share the information with the people out there. Why are you guys so willing to share your information, what you've learned, how you've grown, just just your steps.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I I think in in transparency, at least for me, like I still have those thoughts. Like I'll be honest with you, like my my first impression my first thought may be like I don't want to do this because this could happen. But I'm also reminded that the opportunity itself, I didn't create, God provided it to me. That's right. And so I have to push past the selfishness of it to say I want to push you forward so that you succeed, even if that eventually means that you end up leaving and leaving a hole behind you. Um if I can't be trusted with people who are progressing, or if I can't be trusted to progress people, well then that just means I'm always going to be stuck with the people who aren't going to progress.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_05:You can't be trusted with great people if you're not willing to let them fly and be great.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:That's wow, that's beautiful. Yeah, that's beautiful. Who would have cry? That is so beautiful. Okay. And Desiree, that's that is that it's in a way.
SPEAKER_01:Like I think I do think that the thoughts crossed my mind, but I feel like I would love, look, would have loved and still would love to be able to just have someone to ask the questions, like to not be, to not feel like, oh, I can't because they're gonna be gatekeeping or I don't want to be a gatekeeper. Like I just wanna it's if the information is out there, like nothing that we learned is something isn't is some nothing that we know is something that no one else would be able to find in some way. Yeah. And so if we become that, if we become a place of access for people, then absolutely, because we have been really blessed to do this and to live this life. Um I don't know. I don't I really don't know why we've been able to do so, but it's just since we since we are, let's just let other people grow and build too.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I like I I like to think that the reason why you guys are where you're at, and of course, I get a front row seat to see it. I think you're different because you do have that, I don't know, ability to just jump. So many people they find themselves at the point of, I want it, but are you willing to jump for it? In other words, you guys jumped off the cliff to say, hey, if I fail, I'm gonna fail jumping. Whereas a lot of people just stay just stand there, they don't get the information, they will not make the step, and so they are just pretty much stagnated because everyone is always gonna have fear. Um, it's how do you move past the fear? Last question then, which kind of lines up. How did you guys know the well would work in Canton, Mississippi?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if either of us really knew. Maybe you knew. I'll say I did not know, no, other than I knew. That's a weird thing.
SPEAKER_02:What?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so like if we had asked people questions, if we had said, hey, we're thinking about opening up a business in Canton, a lot of people would have been like, uh-uh, don't do it. Uh this It's not a healthy state. Yeah, that like who's gonna do that? People are not gonna pay, people are only gonna pay cash. Um, like we heard we heard some of these things. We heard some of the things after we had opened. Um but I had a knowing. Like when we knew we were moving here, it was like, oh, it just made sense. Like it just, it just, I just knew. Um, and I can't explain that knowing, other than I just felt like the Lord was like, no, it's gonna work. Now you may be different. You might have we didn't do market research though, like all of the traditional things that you would do, market research, oh know your audience, da-da-da-da. We didn't do all that. How did you know? Or did you know?
SPEAKER_00:I I am um I already know your answer.
SPEAKER_05:I I am probably confident to a fault in myself.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:And so I'm gonna figure it out. Like I think I think there probably been two or three things that I couldn't figure out in my life. Um, and so it's just it's gonna work because I'm gonna make it work. And if it doesn't work, then it's I'm gonna make it work. Like if the well doesn't work, it's gonna be a private event rental space. If it's not that, it's gonna be a photography studio. If it's not that, it's gonna like it's gonna work. Something's gonna work. Something's gonna work.
SPEAKER_00:I got you.
SPEAKER_05:And if not, then we just renovate it and resell it. But it's it, I I don't when I see things, it's not often that I see failure. Um in my twisted mind. Okay, I see failure as a lack of effort um or a lack of effort, really. Like I should be able to figure something some way out.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so then last question again. We're gonna do a percentage. How much what percentage is God? What percentage is you? What percentage is division, and what percentage is your effort?
SPEAKER_04:For me, um ask it again.
SPEAKER_00:What percentage is God? What percentage is you? What percentage is division, and what percentage is the effort?
SPEAKER_05:Um, well, I think I think there's two different questions in there. I would say it's 55, 45 God? Like Yeah, like God does it. Is that does that equal 100? Yeah. So as far as success, like God, okay, I'll I'm opening door for you, but are you gonna tell the ground up? Are you gonna are you gonna do everything that's so it's a 45 god or the 50 god?
SPEAKER_00:No, the 55 god you didn't say that. I just said oh, okay. Didn't I start with that?
SPEAKER_05:Oh, I didn't know the 55 is God, but God's like not gonna do all the work for you.
SPEAKER_00:Um so they have to work, they have to move.
SPEAKER_05:And I believe you have to work. Um, you have to show up as your best self, you have to put in the effort. Um, if I'm honest, it probably probably it probably should be more 75-25, but that's just where I need to grow more. And why that margin has shrunk, and God's like, You gonna learn today? That's right. Um, but where I am now is 5545. Um, now to where I kind of made it into two different questions: what part is the vision versus what part is effort effort? Um to me, I think vision is a if you look at a year, vision's probably a quarterly thing. But in between each vision casting or vision adjusting season, there's the effort in the middle of it. So I can have the most amazing vision that changes every single day. But if it changes every single day, you're not gonna get there because you're not going in any direction. So vision is more of like a bop. Am I on the right track? Do I need to pivot? Am I on the right track? I need to pivot. Um, so I guess that would be like 25% vision, 75% effort.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:That's all right.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um God or me, I would say 90% God, 10% me. That's just y'all know I was gonna answer like that. That's good. Okay. Because even with all the effort, like all of that was to to know or have the um what's that thing that that you kind of intuition, innovation. Intuition. To even have the intuition to do anything, I feel like all of that's got given. I feel like the the time, I feel like the money, I feel like all of those different things, all of the elements that go into what is considered effort, like I I wouldn't have done it on my own. There was no way, no way that it would have been done on my own. So I give God 90%, 10% me. I might have made a good choice here or there, but he did all the rest. Um He be in God, yeah, God would be in doing all the rest. And then um vision and effort. Um yeah, I think again the vision, the vision, it was a God-given vision. And so I I can't extract the two. It's so hard to even be able to put it in percentages because I'm like, I don't know, God was all in this thing, and God is still all in this thing. And so I can't I can't separate them. It's hard, it's hard for me to even do that in in the least bit accurately. So um, but he might say it's more effort because he does a lot of the day-to-day operations and marketing and all of that stuff. Like that's that's what he has done. Um and I just give him ideas. Okay. So that might be why my answer is different than his, but I I cannot, God's hands and fingerprints are all over this thing, so I can't not give the credit.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah. So with that, I think we're gonna bring it to a close. Um, the last thing that I want you to do as you're going out, I'll give my final statement. Then I want you guys to give your final statement. Um, and just tell the people why you think that the um financial workshop would be good for them to at least come out and be a part of. So for me personally, I know that if you don't have a vision, some people are visionary, some people are not. And I just so happen to fall in that place where I am not. However, I do find that if you're in an environment of people that have vision, people that have goals, people that have direction, you can glean the morsels, and the most amazing thing happens, your life begins to transform and turn around because all of a sudden you begin to believe, I think I can. And um, so often we have our lives are limited by what the people around us see in us. And often they will not speak life. But the one thing that I love so much about the well is that the information and just the um wanting people to do better is not just about them, it's about everyone. So I do encourage everyone and please, as you guys go, give the date, the time, and I know you'll put a link in where people can go and sign up. You can do it online as well. The class will be available online. Online as well as in person. So um he'll include all of that. Um, so you guys go ahead and tell me to give them your last words. I thank y'all for the your time and all of your information.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think for me, it's um we all many of us have dreams or hopes or goals, but they all take money.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And so it's it's great to have quiet time and see these things, but for you to do what God has planted inside of you, it's going to require that you first take care of what he's already given you. Because in in looking to bring your dream to life, you're basically asking God for more. But what have I already already given you? Are you taking care of that? And so I think if there's one thing to take from this conversation is that you've been given maybe not as much as you want, maybe not enough for the life that you decided to live, but you've been given enough for where God has you in this moment. If we could take better care of what he's given us or have a better understanding of what he's given us, we can either build a life that allows us to be good stewards, or understand we need to at some point make the difficult decision to bring our life into alignment with where God has us currently. But without first the information, it's impossible to make that decision.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's good. Yeah. Um, I was trying to think of something different than what he said. But I do think that the foundation is that to whom much is given, much is required. And so we we say that, we throw that around all the time, but we don't really think about like, okay, let me figure out what's required. And so this will at least be a starting point. Like we, I we because the dream is yours, we cannot tell you all of the things that'll be required to to live out or you know, actually live in the dream. But we can give you some steps. We can give you something really feasible, really practical to help you move along. And even if you don't have like a grand vision, if it even if it's something like as as at this point in life, I just need to pay off my credit card debt or whatever it is, like we can we have some tangible steps to help you with that. And so I think if you're looking for something, if if you've been like maybe you've tried and failed, or maybe you've tried and you're still kind of like, I'm not quite sure if I'm still on the right track. At least if you come here, we can talk through those things and give you some pointers that move you in the direction that you're trying to go. So I think just basic app uh practicality, basic application, basic skills. This is not, we're not trying to teach you about stocks and bonds and mutual funds. Like that's kind of a whole other step. We're just talking about basics, like how do I take care of what I have so that I can be prepared to receive when the time comes. Because it's you listen to our story. A lot of the stuff that happened is not because we were like actively working towards these things. It was just we were were positioned correctly because we had been taking care of what we had. So that's it. I love it. I absolutely love it. Go ahead and close us up.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, but thank you so much for joining us for another conversation at the well. Hopefully, we'll be seeing you a lot more and a lot more consistently in 2026. If you have any questions, any concerns, any issues, drop them in the comments below.
SPEAKER_01:And also the workshop, the workshop. Yeah, we'll put in the thing, but the the description. The workshop is on January 17th at 1030 here at the well.
SPEAKER_02:Central central.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, yeah, because y'all be on all kinds of different time zones. So 10:30 central time, that is when the um workshop is happening. You can sign up online if you go to meatthewell.com, click events, and it'll be there. Or if you have our app, we have an app now, guys. You go um you can download the well app canton. No, the well canton app. There we go. The well canton app. You can do get it on Google Play or the App Store, and um, it'll be in the event section of that as well.
SPEAKER_00:All right, wonderful. Thank you guys.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:All right.