It's Time to Retire...Until It's Not!

Talking with guest Tim Edins about his retirement and subsequent rehire. Great visit with lots of insight from both Tim and Miike Lunney. Is retirement the best option right now? What if I decide to teach again, what does that do to my retirement? Are there penalties? Is it easy to navigate? Some things to think about!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

So, Mike, what what what was your first year in Abilene? What was your first year at Wiley? 20 years ago?

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Three years ago? I was at Throckmorton in uh that would have been 86. So it's a is an exact split. So sometimes we'd head up to Wichita Falls for pizza, or sometimes we'd head for Abilene. But you know, I'd come into Caldwell music back then, so that was like the late 80s. Tim Jones was my first roadman. So he he was just but a youngster working for his papa.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

And that was crazy because they had Tim Jones and they had Jim Jones. It was really pretty confusing. I've still got my letter opener that's a Jim Jones business card in it. And there is an old band director named Tim Tim Jones, I think.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yeah, it confused me for a year and a half till I forgot it figured out. I was going, what this guy's busy. He's a Cisco teaching band, and he's uh running a music store. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

So uh if if our friends don't recognize this is one of my good friends, I consider him such. He may not say that in public very much. So sorry if I outed you there. But uh Tim Edens, Hamilton, Texas. Uh good to see you around. My curiosity, because I know that you went at you, I I know some of your story. I know you went to college in in Abilene. Right. But what was that your first was that your first experience in Abilene was college?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Oh no, I was I was born and raised in Abilene. I didn't know that. Yeah, I I went to uh Jefferson Junior High. It was old Jefferson at the time, and uh then Abilene Cooper, and you know, been going to Caldwell's, you know, since oh gosh, 12 years old, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Wow. Yep. So what was your after you graduated, what was your first job? Uh was it Hamilton? No, my first job was Lamisa, uh kind of up by Lubbock. Okay, and that's at it was uh it was a learning experience. I was I was awful, I I have to say, and I've apologized to the head director at the time. You know, I I was just awful.

SPEAKER_05 2:10

So just for fun for me to know who was the head director, uh Doris Pace.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Oh Doris?

SPEAKER_05 2:15

Oh yeah. How cool is that?

SPEAKER_02 2:19

I called him my band dad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:23

Mike quotes him all the time. What's what's Dois's quote about band directing?

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Oh gosh, now I gotta remember the wordage on that. It's uh this job is too damn hard if you don't love it.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

Or not to love it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

To not love it. Yeah, that's it. Sorry, I knew I'd mess that up.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

But uh and Doris helps a lot. We have you know those listening sessions, so he's several times sat in and and offered his his wisdom. So we have kind of people that listen that aren't necessarily we know what Lamisa means, we know what Abilene means, but for our national people, La Mesa is a uh pretty band-rich tradition from way back, and it's I consider it part of the deserts of West Texas. Their mascot is what the golden golden tornadoes? Yeah, golden tornadoes, golden tours. They have GT everywhere. When I pull into town, I'm like, what La Misa? How does GT fit with that? But uh uh anyway, so without belaboring the point, what year was your how long have you done this, Tim? How long have you taught?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Uh I've taught since 83, was my my first year there in La Mesa. And then, you know, I was there for three years and then moved here in '86. So in that you'd be in Hamilton, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:39

Right. Cool. So uh here's the thing. We're today, Mike, I think we're talking about uh we've you two gentlemen in particular have had the opportunity to retire. And then I don't know if this is national, but in Texas, there's an opportunity, and you guys need to talk about this, how it works the opportunity to rehire or to um go back and do some teaching. Again, I'm gonna get out of the way and let you all explain. I don't know if it's typically part-time, if it's typically you go back to full-time. You could do the ins and outs on that. But I think one of the things we're trying to talk about today, and here's my curiosity, so I'm gonna ask each of you this and and kind of let you roll with that. Um obviously you retired once. Why? What led to your retirement, and then we can kind of go back into uh what made you want to go back to it. So I'll start with Mike because I don't know if I've ever asked you this, Mike.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Yeah, that that question, it's kind of like a reminds it triggers my therapist, you know.

SPEAKER_05 4:45

We had we had um a smidgen of the conversation just a couple of episodes that there was a time it just clicked. He said, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Is it the uh end of the year prior to the year I retired, if that makes sense? Because I announced it to my band during summer band that this would be my last year because I wanted to lay the pavement down of making it uh where someone else could come in and get kind of get rid of all that emotional side of it. And it made it really nice by the time the band banquet came around. But to answer your question, uh two things. One is um I just felt like I'd accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. And I I just felt like I wanted to do something different. And I was kind of, you know, that our jobs are, you know, I'm not like woe is us kind of thing, but you know, our jobs as band directors, it's pretty tough. I mean, it'll lead up 80 hours a week during football season and 70 hours a week during the spring, you know. And most people, you know, would call for band directors call 40 hours a week part-time. Yeah, that's that's part-time work, man. You're you're lazy. You're only working 40 hours a week. Um, so it was partly that. It really was. And it was also just a financial thing with my finance people that they just looked at it and said, man, it's it's best if you just retire, because you know, at the time I was married and uh and our retirements were set up that when the last one of us, when the first one of us died, the other one would get our full retirement. We took this tier two, I guess, in the retirement. And uh, and it if I died the day before I retired, then my wife would have received like, I don't know, like $260,000, $300,000 out of my TRS account that I'd accumulated over 31 years. Um, but if I died the day after I retired, she would receive like $60,000 a year for the rest of her life. So those two numbers meet at five years, you know, when you graph it out. So it was a matter of, you know, if I didn't retire and something happened, you know, I hate to be so paranoid, but if something happened, then it would really change the financial structure for my wife someday, if that makes sense. Or vice versa. Vice versa. I would receive her TRS account, or if she retired with me, then if something happened to her, then uh she would uh then I would receive her retirement for the rest of my life until I died. And so those days are kind of gone, I think, Tim. I think that, you know, as far as you know, the rules are changing, I mean, by the second. But hopefully that does answer your question. Part of it was emotional, um, and part of it was just logistical, financial, you know, just make- I think one of the things I was listening for was that that click moment of I've done what I wanted to do. Oh yeah. It was the the night of my the spring concert the year before I retired, after I finished. And it wasn't like a depressive kind of thing. I don't want people to think that, oh my God, I can't do this anymore. But it was just like I I just got home and I poured myself a little two-finger bourbon, you know, and I sat there in my chair and I thought, you know, I I think I'm I think I'm done. I think it was like I I think I'm done. It wasn't a depression kind of thing. It wasn't like, oh, I can't do this anymore. Or it was just, I think I'm done. I my my body and mind want something different for a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 8:01

I think we've both had friends, all three of us have had friends that we know that got bitter about things and just said, I hate this now, I can't do this anymore, whether it's their situation or whether it's just where they are in life at the moment. But I'm I guess the point I was hoping to hear was that was not necessarily the case, Mike. You just decided I did what I came to do.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah. And uh, I guess a third leg to that discussion is the fact that my son had gotten through his uh his college stuff, you know, and it that was you know, for all of us, that's kind of presses on us as far as trying to help out our kids to to do better than we've done. You know what I mean? And so yeah, it was kind of hard to think about retiring and then taking a chance financially that direction when I still had things to do that direction, but he'd fulfilled what he was wanting to do with his undergrad stuff, and then uh and then it was like, yeah, this'll work. This'll work. What about you, Tim? You're the Brett Favre of band directors, so well, it it really is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

I had had a a very domineering administrator for a while. Um kind of I mean, it was really, really bad. He was, you know, degrading, and I mean, everything bad about an administrator was all poured into this one guy. And so even though by that time I had had a good one come along, I was just burned out. I didn't want to to even see anything anymore band related. Um, and I thought, okay, you know, I can I can retire next year, you know, when I get to this age. And so I did. And I thought, okay, I'll I'll judge, you know, and I'll do clinics and all of that. And I did. And unfortunately, you know, that ends in uh November. So you're not doing any clinicing for Christmas concert. So um, I'll just kind of sit around. But the it was it was necessary, I think, to clear my head. Um, my problem was I retired right when I could. I mean, the very earliest I could uh qualify, I retired at 52. And that was a mistake. I mean, certainly, you know, by now, because that locked me in, right? You know, to my retirement. Um fortunately, uh, well, or unfortunately, the guy that replaced me did not work out, and so I replaced him mid-year. They asked me to come back part-time, so I did.

SPEAKER_05 10:31

Uh in what was the interim there? You you were we worked together for a a short amount of time. It was about four or five years.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

We did, but this was this was the first one. This was uh 2011. Yeah, new information.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

I didn't know that's why Brett Farr was. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah, um, this was 2011. And I was I retired, you know, right at the end of 2011 and January of 2012, they asked me back. So um because they had canned him like overnight. So yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 11:09

Okay, first time do what?

SPEAKER_01 11:12

So it was the first time, but when you came back, you said it was part-time. When I first came back, it was part-time, yeah. Um, which was a great deal for them. But it's funny that Mike mentioned that a minute ago about you know, 40 hours a week is part-time because it that is really true. And uh, you know, I was I was doing the band director thing for half pay, basically.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah, because the state wouldn't allow you to do it full at that time, would they? That's you know what I mean. You have to be at a whole year, otherwise you have to work. But like Tim's saying, part-time and band, there's no such thing as a part-time band director if you're the head director. You know, they just pay you. It's part-time pay.

SPEAKER_05 11:50

Just for clarity, you're still you're still taking your retirement and then getting part-time pay.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yes. And if you work more than your part-time whatever it is, then you risk losing your annuity. Yep. Okay. Because you get, I'm sure Tim got them. I've gotten those letters from TRS saying we have on record that you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you do such and such, you will need to contact us. You know, letters I'm talking about, and they're not hateful letters, just informational letters saying that okay, you've reached your full calendar year, or it's been a full calendar month. Now you can substitute or whatever. You know, they they have all their rules in place.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

All right. So you came back. How long did it stick that time?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Oh, uh, came back in 2012 and then finally retired again in 2017. So another six years. Okay. I I was I was in there for another six years. You know, had I not retired, I would I'd be getting all that money, you know, that that I don't get now. So I I do regret being there.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

So the second time the second that next six years, basically, okay, just enjoyed it and then got to the point where you said, you know what, I really did want to retire.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah. Um the opportunity came along to hire one of my students from here uh to take over and his wife. And uh and so we we did that. Not sure how much of it was me and how much of it was the administration kind of encouraging, you know, well, let's move on here. But anyway, yeah, it happened in 2017. And then we worked together. Then we worked together, right, for five years. Yep.

SPEAKER_05 13:32

And now you're back. And for whatever reason, for whatever circumstances, is this still affecting your and this is where I'll get out of the way. You guys talked to this point. Neither one of you quit because you hated kids.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Matter of fact, that first time I retired, it was, you know, I missed that. That that was painful. You know, not having not being able to share the love of music with kids. Um, I guess that's what I missed the most. That, and weirdly enough, my my band hall keys, having those in my pocket all the time. It's kind of weird, but anyway.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

Well, there's a certain attachment to our identity and the set of keys. I have the same thing on my lanyard. I'll swing it around, just remind myself I got keys. I love it. Uh all right. So you came back and you've been back a couple, three years now, I think, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Uh, this is four years now.

SPEAKER_05 14:29

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I see time flies. We must be having fun. We must be. So you guys talk about it. Talk about the advantages of retire, rehire, the thing, the considerations that that go into the thought process. And and listen, I assume, Tim, part of it is that they said, hey, we really need you to come back to work. Would you consider it? And here's what happened. Yeah. And in that conversation, talk about the advantages, disadvantages, etc. So Mike, you probably have a better thought process of line of questions that'll make sense, but I'm just interested to listen.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

So Yeah. Go for it, Tim.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Well, yeah, when they did ask, uh, it was to come back as a junior high director. That was the initial intent. Um, but they gave me the title of fine arts director so that I could kind of direct the program if I needed to. And uh that that was all fine. I absolutely um, but then we got down to brass tacks, and you know, after doing it part-time, I'm I will not do that again. That you can't run a band program part-time, it's just not possible. Um, and so I said it has to be full-time. And of course, I'd been out over a year, I'd been out five years, and so that was that was possible. And so you in that particular case, you get to negotiate your salary, which is pretty awesome. Um plus, you know, Mike has mentioned I think there's a penalty uh that the school has to pay um in order to hire a retired person full-time. And the school said they were willing to do that.

SPEAKER_05 16:11

So let me ask you that is that to protect younger directors that might not have a chance if there's a retiree coming? Why do they include a penalty?

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Oh, they don't they don't care about the younger directors. It's to protect the solvency of the TRS system. They could care less whether we lived or died. It's it's a money issue. Because think about it, if all if all old heads you know retired and came back to work, then TRS would not be receiving money from us. So you pay 7.2% of your income into TRS. So in order to compensate for that, um, it used to be when you came back, you had to pay the penalty. So if they paid you $100,000, let's just use a round number. I mean, that don't come back like $100,000 a year right off the bat, but then you'd have to pay $7,200, you know, in penalty. And that would be percentage. That'd be taxable income before you paid it, by the way. You know, so it makes it makes a lot of sense. And what Tim alluded to, and uh for people who are out there that are kind of in the middle of things, um, that the longer you work, the more you make in retirement, because every year you work past the point of that you can retire, then you receive 2.3% more in retirement income. So if you do five more years in Texas, then you'd get like a 10% paybump. But I want to say this before we get too deep into all this other stuff. We're not financial attorneys, we are not representatives of I was waiting for a break. Yeah. Um, so and this this thing changes. This is a this is as crazy as watching CNN and Fox every morning. You know, I mean TRS changes the what's happening and whatever you listen to. But I I'm telling you this, get on that web page. And uh, I don't mean this as a uh critique, I suppose. It's just a human entity as TRS run by humans. But every time I call TRS or contact them, I always contact them three times with the same question because they never answer the same way twice. And so I try to get the majority answer. So if they answered the same way two times, then I kind of go with that, and then I send an email and then I get a paper trail because I get that person's name and I say, Hey, I'll send you an email just to kind of clarify this. And maybe it's paranoid, but I tell you what, it saved my butt a couple of times, you know, where I've had that email trail where it's like they go, Oh, but but Mr. Lunny, you uh you'd substitute it over at Cooper High School for what? No, I didn't. Here's the email trail, and here's here's the letter I received, and all that. So I say all that, uh ramble a little bit on that, but uh make sure that if you're a person that's gonna look at retiring, that uh, or even as a young person, when you're first year teaching, you better look at those rules. But it's all on the TRS webpage, and it's kind of hard to get through sometimes. Um, I would suggest uh find yourself a like a tax attorney, and it would be worth $500 with a tax attorney's time to sit there with you and they'll go through. And there's some tax attorneys that are just their specialty is school, you know what I mean? So that you can go down to Austin and find a good tax attorney that will sit there with you and answer all your questions and and work with you as far as uh dealing with TRS. Um, the youngest directors right now, I mean, it's it's getting kind of I mean, when Tim and I started teaching, the retirement was a great perk.

unknown 19:37

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Kind of pulled us in because most people didn't have that kind of perk. You could, I could, I retired at 51. You know, how many people can retire at 51 and pull a certain percentage of their income? Um, but that's changing. I know I was doing a site reading contest, an evaluation thing over in uh Midland, Texas. And one young lady was there, I say young, yeah, anything's young to me, I guess. She's probably about 40. Uh, but she said, uh I she goes, I can't retire till I'm 65. With the way the TRS thing is set up now. So there's there's no way. There's no way you can retire. And that wasn't a financial thing. The TRS said you cannot retire until you're 65, you know, and so that's a big difference. One thing to throw out there for you before I jump back to Tim. Um, think about this for a second. When I went to Midwestern State University, our college band director said, okay, and we happen to all be boys, you know what I mean? And there's only about five music ed managers. And uh, he goes, uh, every one of you need to go down to Wichita Falls business office and sign up, and you need to get your CDL and you need to drive a bus in the morning. And I thought, this is stupid. You know, why do I want to drive a bus? I'm trying to go to college. You know, he said, No, no, no, no, you don't understand. It's gonna take you five years to get your music degree. Your first year as a teacher will be your sixth year in the TRS system. So I already saw my sixth year of my service in my first year of teaching. That way I could I could have retired at 51. I retired at 53, but I could have retired at 51 because of that band director. Um, so you know, you can look for those tiny little loopholes that how do you get vested in TRS, you know, where it's years of service? Because while you're at college, you can you could work in a cafeteria during lunch and you'd be vested in TRS if you work in an elementary cafeteria in the mornings, you know. So you can make things happen that way. So uh I just wanted to give that disclaimer was the main thing is that you know, whatever we give you, don't think that we're attorneys and that we're experts on this. But Tim, what was your uh uh situation? You you mentioned the the first one, you had to have that break of one month, one calendar. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah. I had to take a break of a month. Um, and I did, you know, so they could bring me back. Um it again, it was a weird time. Uh as we all know, you know, your identity as a band director is who you are. My wife tried to tell me that for like two years and it didn't sink in. So and you know, you learn the hard way when you're going, okay, it's November. What do I do? Sit here and drink a beer and that's it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

There's only so much more epovitch you can watch in the morning. Yeah. And then the second time you had to wait. Uh, you know, of course you made it very clear on there, you know, you cleared out the time, but it has to be a full calendar year that you're out of service. And it has to be everything because, you know, I brought up the Cooper thing, but there was a time when I came back from Florida and I wanted to apply at a job and it was up near Lubby because it was a little two-A school. And I thought, eh, that'd be kind of cool. I'll go up there and I'll just I haven't worked, so I'll go up there. So I looked at applying and I called TRS and they you hear this clickety-clickety-click on their little computer, and then they go, Oh, you haven't taken your full year break. And I said, I I have taken my full year break. Said, no, you substituted for two days at Cooper High School. And it's like, oh my gosh. And I said, I did. Said, well, that counts. Said, but that wasn't like a job, those subbing. Said, you that's a TRS entity. So if you're subbing, that counts as that puts away your your you have to restart, you have to reboot your one year from the time the second after the second day of my uh substituting. And so at that point, I'd kind of gotten into some other venues and doing other stuff or whatever, and my clinic stuff had kind of taken off a little bit. You know, I provide emotional support and psychological uh support to band directors while pretending to work with their groups, you know. So I was I was really busy into that and judging, and I just kind of enjoyed that. So it was like I really don't want to go back full time now. So it's kind of interesting to look back and think, you know, kind of like how Tim was saying, it's your identity. So if I would have been able to take that job, or if I if I'd have been able to have been hired at that job, I should like assume that they would just say, oh, it's Mike Luddy, let's do him. You know, there's I'm sure they had other considerations as well. Um, you know, but that my life would have been totally different. I'd have been living up in Lubbock, you know, and I'd have been just, you know, rocking it with a little two-way band, you know, it would have been a lot of fun, but who knows? But um, you know, the the surcharge thing, did that ever affect you as far as like the what I call the penalty? I don't know if that's the proper term, the 2.5% penalty. Did that ever affect you too?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

No, it did not. No. Um the the school took care of all of that. Uh they said they were happy to, and you know, it hasn't come up again. But at the same time, you know, uh that does bring up the point that I am a very expensive employee. And, you know, we like every other school district are facing some serious financial stuff next year. And, you know, there is a little bit of guilt there that, you know, I make such an impact on the overall pay scheme, you know. But yeah. And let me ask you. And that has to be included.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah, and you know, you talked about you being an expensive employee. D because I haven't faced this because I haven't gone back and gone through the same thing you've done. Um, when you get into that with the school, are they obligated to pay you according to your pay scale? Or is it just flat out negotiation? It's the wild west of negotiating. Are you understanding as you consider yourself expensive? And I respect that.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Right. I I think I don't believe they are required to hire you at your pay grade. I think, you know, I thought it was just uh, I could be mistaken, but I thought it was just a negotiation.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

That's what I was thinking too.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Yeah, so but you're again check with PRS. That's you know, don't go by what I say at all on that.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

But yeah, and it's true because schools want to get you on board and they will tell you things. Tim knows what I'm talking about. They will tell you things. I hate to say it this way, but they become very car salesman-like, don't they? It's like, oh no, we can Tim, we can get this taken care of. Don't you worry, don't you worry your little head about that. You just get in there and start teaching at B flat scales that uh we just want we want the marching band cranked up, you know. Give us that 80s show, you know, kind of thing. So they're all excited to get you on board, and all of a sudden TRS calls and goes, uh, Mr. Edens. Yeah. Did you run into any things like that uh that you're or if you did, are you able to divulge them?

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Uh I did not run into anything like that. I, you know, not from the financial side. I will say the other part, you know, my first year here, uh after you know accepting the job, it was interesting to find out that I was also teaching choir. So that was uh you know we yeah, we kind of mixed it pretty quick, but still that's but no, nothing, nothing as far as uh uh uh financial. And you know, also it is nice that I can say I actually taught my superintendent and I taught my principal. Oh wow. Um, so it you know, it's all honesty. I mean, everything's above board. So nice, nice. I love it. It is pretty nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

Mike, did you ever have an administrator that was a former student?

SPEAKER_02 27:30

No, I had lots of administrators. Their kids were through my program, but I had I've never uh had that. That would be really cool, though, to have a you know, there were some uh former students who were teachers at Wiley, but they weren't administrators, they were like coaches and you know, theater arts teachers and things like that. So that was kind of nice. But uh what what a uh that's funny. I can imagine sitting with your superintendent going, all right, now it's gonna be Ford demerits if you're gonna miss third quarter this Friday if you don't do what I tell you to do. And just smile at them. Well, what a what a great moment. Because yeah, just inherently you have that whole level of trust built up, don't you? You know, because they see you as the person who taught them music. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

And it is it it is a little strange to think about it, you know, when you're sitting across from the superintendent. Hey, I I taught you, but I mean, you actually do kind of put that out of your mind. And and there is that relationship that was built a long time ago that's still there. So that's kind of nice.

SPEAKER_05 28:33

Yeah, guys, this Mike, you said this about 65, talking about your conversation. So forgive ignorance, but at one time I thought it was experience plus age, had to reach what was it, 82? That however many years you taught plus your age, if they equaled number 10.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Oh, my magic number was 80. And that number kept changing, and now that number's like 95.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yep. Yeah, I was I was rule of 80 also.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

So yeah. Yeah, we called it rule of 80. So if you, you know, if you you could retire about 53-ish, 54-ish, if you started teaching at 22, because your age plus 30 something years of experience would equal 80.

unknown 29:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

I'm not trying to touch any bitter nerves, but why does that change like that? Why is why does that is it a financial issue for for the TRS?

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, because uh our government has uh borrowed money from TRS. Oh, okay. They've stolen. I'm trying to be still careful with that. But you know me, Derek, you don't have to be careful, but our government sucks. You know, so it's uh that they've stolen money from the retirement system. And on top of that, with the windfall eliminations provision, WEP, um, I'm fully vested in Social Security. And until this last year, I was not able to draw anything in Social Security because you're punished because you're receiving a pension from as a teacher from the state of Texas. Where if if I was in any other position, I would be able to draw that. But that that's been I I I would love to meet with some people who are now in that situation because I should be able to draw my Social Security now because the federal government has uh backed down on that with the WEP with the Windfall Eliminations Provision. And they have said that yes, you can draw your Social Security and you can draw your retirement. And the reason being is so totally obvious because I paid into both. Right. When I do contract labor, it says 1099. I pay my 7.5% to Social Security plus the business side. So I pay 15% of my income as a 1099 employee. When I go clinic abandon, you know, 15% of that immediately goes to uh federal government. Where if I was a W-2 employee, it'd only be 7.3%, something like that. So you're punished for that. And so it's it's interesting that they take your money and then they tell you you're not allowed to get your money. This is this is not a welfare payment. You know, this is money I paid into the system. And just think what I could have done with all that money over the years if they had not taken that. Now, granted, my first 11 years as a band director, the school systems I worked for paid into Social Security because that was before they enacted the WEP. And so that in my clinic work and summer work and whatever, I'm all my quarters are paid in. I can draw full Social Security at age 65 or 67 is the is the number for me. Because again, they keep bumping it up. But going back to your original question, I'm sorry for rambling, Derek. Your original question was uh why do they change the number? It's to screw us out of money. And so they can keep the system solvent. If they don't do that, the system will go under. Um, even though we've got the ultimate house of cards, we've got the ultimate Ponzi scheme. We we uh we get teachers to go to school, we get them to get their degree, then they teach for three years and they quit. Okay. So think about this financially. So they pay in 7.1% of their income into TRS. When they quit, TRS will give them what's in their account. They will not give them the money they've made off their account. So can you imagine if you've got the entire state of Texas, every teacher paying Derek money into his bank account? And then when they quit after three years, all you got to give them is what they gave you. But in the meantime, you're making millions of dollars off investing. There's a reason the TRS building is six stories with its own private gym. If you ever go down to Austin, it's a six-story building, um, beautiful building, uh, paid on the backs and sweat of teachers from across Texas. And so their job is to uh to make sure they get as much money out of this as possible and to pay as little as possible, much like an insurance corporation. And so we've got to work it hard, right, Tim? We got to work it hard to make sure that we stay within what we're supposed to do so we can get our money back. So that's kind of the synopsis of it. But you're not gonna touch any nerve with me on that as far as like I'm not careful about TRS. I couldn't give a crap about what they think. You know, uh TRS is a it's it's served a purpose, much like a dentist.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

I don't like them, but I need them. Even even hearing that, and I'm gonna switch over to Tim, but even hearing that, you still need to do it. You still need to, and and I don't know if it's a requirement. I don't know what's gonna cost. You don't need choice, it's it's slavery.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

It's a it's a choice, it's no choice. I'm glad we didn't touch any nerves, Mike. Yeah, that's all right. There's no choice involved. They they steal your money from the get-go.

SPEAKER_05 33:42

So Tim, I'm gonna sort of the same, but I'm just curious because I think people get I'm curious, I'll just leave it at that. Okay. I had a friend who left teaching more than once, well before his uh age of retirement. And so he would get, as Mike said, he would get what he paid in, and blah, blah. When he went back and he taught for an extended period of time at the end, before he retired, the last time he bought back or he he like put the money back in that he'd taken out, and I don't remember the exact terms of what he did, so he would be eligible for full retirement when he hit an age. I don't know if you went through any of that or if that's a still a viable option. Either one of you can answer that.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

But you know, I I don't know. I I know about the buyback that you you could buy your years. Uh I did not do that. Um I you know, I don't I don't know in the ins and outs of that. I'm not I don't even know if it's still available. Do you might know whether that's it is still available.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Um the situation is that uh Derek, you have to if you quit early. You know what I mean? Like you've worked for 15 years, and then you decide I just want to do something else. I'm gonna go work for a music store, I'm gonna sell insurance, whatever the case might be. And then you decide, you know, I want to go ahead and draw my TRS at the appropriate time. You can buy back years. It's a very uh finicky process of where you've got to really, and again, I would I would get I would get a financial attorney to sit down with you and figure it out because is it worth the amount of money that you're paying for those years in regard to the years you're gonna draw retirement? Or if you're uh an old head like us guys, um, you can just wait till your years of service and age meet the rule of 80. Because you can work 10 years. You might not get a retirement check until you're 75 or 78 or 79 or 80, but it's still on the as long as you don't take your money out of the TRS system, um, it'll sit in there and they will pay you interest to your account for five years, and then it'll just sit there as an account, and then they will make money off your money. And uh, but the good part on your side is it's still your account, so you can still go back into so that there is a system in which you can buy back years to make up for the time that you didn't work.

SPEAKER_05 36:09

Okay, I'm just curious. So Yeah, it's a good question, Mr. Edden. Mr. Ednes, I'm this is kind of a a curiosity of mine, is you're enjoying what you're doing by and large. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

It is. And uh, you know, the nice thing is, and I think about this often, I'm finally getting paid really what I kind of should been all along. Um, and it's it's nice to come to school and be a valued employee, and you know, um I I will say to touch on something Mike said, the WEP. You know, the first time I learned about the WEP was when I sat down with TRS and they said, Oh, by the way, you know about the W No, I know. Yeah, they keep it a secret. Yeah, and nobody had bothered to tell me that I wasn't gonna get the money that I was paying in all these years. But uh thankfully that's taken care of now. And I I actually started taking uh Social Security, what is this April last month? I finally applied and took it. Uh because my financial advisor, like Mike said, said, that's kind of silly. Take your retirement, put it into an investment instead of just letting it sit there. And it's not, you know, they're not gonna give you interest, pay you a little bit more every month, but not enough. So so I'm taking Social Security now as well.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

So yeah, it's a smart move, really smart move. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

All right. Well, let's let's see if we can help some fellas that are maybe the the age bracket behind us, who are starting to have the conversations in their head about does this make sense? You know, my brain says some people are actually probably thinking I could take a couple years off and come back if if that's what I choose to do. Um is it too much hassle? Ah, that's a bad way to ask that. Knowing what you guys know, would you and you answer this however you want to. Is it worth that effort, or do you just say not stick it out until the rule of 95 or until it's really time to retire instead of going back? You understand the question. I'm saying having experienced it, would you say it was it it's worked out okay, even though you had to do some finagling? Or would you say, guys, just stick it out?

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Oh, what do you think, Tim? I I would say, you know, for me, the two breaks that I took were important. Um they emphasize to me how much I love what I do, how much I enjoy it, how much I missed it when I wasn't there. Um so I'm glad I took those breaks. Um financially, maybe not so much, because I'd be making a whole lot more now. But I I'm glad I took those breaks. And it helped refresh me. I mean, it's yeah, just like summers off that band directors don't really get, you know. Um, you might get a weekend here or there, but it does help re re-energize you for what you do. So um I I can't say, you know, stick with it all the way through, because that can easily burn somebody out. But uh, you know, a quick break here and there, it it really helped me.

SPEAKER_05 39:39

So my anticipation is there's not a right or wrong. Well, there's everybody's circumstance is different.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Yeah, it's all different. In fact, there's two main categories of this one is like what Tim was doing, which he actively fully retired and then came back and got rehired. That's completely different than maybe someone who's worked for 11 years and they become very disillusioned. And then they decide, because I've had directors say, I well, Mike, you know, said they just call a bunch of people just asking for advice and uh just trying to figure out things. Said, I just want to do this, I want to work for all state and look at roofs or whatever and be an insurance adjuster. And my advice to them is always leave your money in the TRS for at least 10 years. Because you don't know right now, you know for sure that you're not gonna come back. Ten years from now, you might want to come back, but that money's still gonna be sitting there. But if you take that money out, when you come back, you have one year of service. That's where we get back to those buying of years. So, you know, if you're in that second category of you're uh you're not of retirement age, but you you're tired of teaching, you just want to do something different. You for whatever reason, medical, whatever, and you said, I will gotta do something different, then it that's okay. Just leave that money in there because you might leave for five years. And then if you come back and teach again, yes, it'll take another couple of years to reach your retirement age. But that money will be in TRS and that 11 or 12 years you've already invested in time. It's not it's the time more than the money, it's the the time invested will still be on the books. So that's those two categories.

SPEAKER_05 41:19

That's a good answer. And listen, I'm gonna editorialize and let you guys tell me that I'm foolish if you want to, but you guys know a lot more people, but I know a lot of people just based on what I've done for most of my uh my career. I very seldom find people that are tired of teaching. They're tired of what they have to do in addition to teaching. And some of that is location, location, location, I guess. You know, I I laughed when I heard Mike, I heard you say, get your CDL and drive a bus, because a lot of people they're like, I'm tired of driving that stupid bus. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I'm my personality is such that you tell me that's part of the gig, I go, okay, that's part of the gig.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

That's kind of how I approached it. I know some of you were really insulted by having to get a CDL, and I respect that, you know, but it's uh But my point remains a lot of times we say we're tired of teaching because that's that's the easy thing to say.

SPEAKER_05 42:21

Are you really tired of teaching, or are you tired of uh, as we've alluded to earlier, a set of administrators? Are you tired of you know all of the uh new rules and and guidelines and things that you have to do that make teaching really hard? And my it's a point to bring that up is it's my belief that administrators change. It and so sometimes we have to kind of decide I'm just gonna stick this guy out because uh or that gal, they're they're not gonna be here in three years.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah, yeah. And I I was fortunate over the long haul that I had good administrators um overall. Um, but yeah, the the analogy, I guess would be the proper term that I give to directors when they ask about things of that nature. I say, it's uh it's are you tired of God or are you tired of church? Because I still love God. Sometimes I hate church because church is run by people. God is run by God. You know what I mean? So in the same analogy, it's like I love teaching. I hate the bureaucracy that surrounds teaching because but it has to be there. I mean, I'm it's you know, it's it's run by people, you know what I mean? And so it's uh, but but that is an interesting question. Uh it's it's a difficult one because I have a a director right now who's contemplating retiring as of age. And they're they said they went out to the practice field yesterday morning, or I guess it was been, yeah, I guess it was No, it'd been last Friday. They went out to the field and they they text me and they said, Man, I'm standing on my practice field and said, I just don't know if I can do this next year. It's it's a mental gymnastics. And so we kind of went through the situation of, yeah, I know it's hard. Um, said, what are some things you're looking at maybe doing? Um, how are you gonna stay connected? Because as directors, anyone's job, we're we're identify as our job. And so, you know, if you're in a bigger city, you can play in a community band, you can play in a brass group, you can play in an orchestra at a church. Um, you can do things like that and still maintain your identity and your connection. Because Derek, you and I have had this discussion, and I want Tim's viewpoint on this, but you know, part of that keeps drawing us back in, in my opinion, is because band is our people. That's our people. So, Tim, what what do you think about that as far as you know that that societal kind of thing that that's that's our community?

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Right. It's it's who we choose to be around. It's you know, uh I also teach music history, and one of the things that we talk about in music history is that everybody likes some kind of music. And ours just happens to be this. And we we love having those in here that that love the music that we do, that love the lifestyle, um, love the freedoms that it brings, in fact. You know, I I like hanging around with those people.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Yeah, it is good, it is fun. But those are our people, you know, those are they were our people when we were junior high kids, and they're still our people, you know, as we're in our 60s and uh up, you know.

SPEAKER_05 45:41

It's pretty well documented on it through the podcast that when I found band, I found family, I found the tribe, I found people that were like, Yeah, you're weird, but you're our weird. Yeah. But love it. I I guess the follow-up to what I was actually uh to what you answered it very well. It's not like we missed the question. I don't think you would want I think both of you would still say you love teaching music.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:07

Whether you do it vocationally or not. But I guess where I'm getting around to is I think it's and this is Tim, one of the reasons that we ask you to join us today. It's okay to to take that refresher and remind yourself, or as sudden as Mike's uh epiphany was that he was done, I'm sure there's people that wake up one day and go, you know what, I'm I'm not done. Yeah, I still want to do that. I still feel like I have something to give to this community. It's okay to realize that and go, okay, I'm going back. And Tim, I'm gonna ask you this appointedly. I think at least one case you were asked to come back, but was your heart already kind of going I if the opportunity comes up? Or in your mind are you done?

SPEAKER_01 47:01

The first time after a couple of months that was there, you know, if if they ask, you know, I'm I'm here. Um the second time was kind of out of the blue. I didn't know that that was gonna be an option. You know, I I was working for Intune at the time, now Tarpley, and I was enjoying that job. And, you know, I carried uh I I had my baton that I carried with me because I'd go into a school and it'd say Mr. Engine One, and so we'd get to rehearse a little bit, and it was just kind of one of the perks. Um, but this one kind of kind of came out of the blue, and you know, I couldn't turn my back on it. Uh, number one, because I do miss being with the kids and teaching and sharing that. And at the same time, it was my craft that I developed over the years. And I, you know, I don't wouldn't say I got great at it, but I was decent. Um, and so you know, I still had that in me.

SPEAKER_05 47:57

Um I appreciate your humility. I think we'd all agree you do a pretty good job. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. But again, my my question is uh the the where you've led me with that is when they said that, did you have to stop and go, do I miss it? Or did you go, oh wow, you know what? I kind of do miss it.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

No, I I knew I missed it. Um I did get enough on clinicking and all this other stuff and judging. I I did that enough to to kind of satisfy that that need a bit. Um but you know, especially when you start talking numbers and okay, yeah, I can't turn that down. Um it gets real real serious real fast.

SPEAKER_05 48:44

Uh that's that's kind of the other part I'm gonna say that I'm an emotional person. I think both of you guys know that. We know each other well enough. And I think there's a lot of emotional people in what we do because music is emotional. And and if you're really at heart someone who loves music, you you feel those emotions a lot, but it's a really bad way to do business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Well, that's a quote that'll live on. I love that, Derek. Sometimes we make decisions based on emotions, and we we allow our emotions to override our intelligence when it comes time for work or do we not work. And man, I'm with you, my friend.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

It's uh so I guess my point is good on you, Tim, for saying, All right, guys, I I'll do this, but it's gonna be let's negotiate this time, and you're gonna understand the value of what I do. And I don't mean that in an ugly way, or but realistically, it's nice to be able to say, You want me back, here's what I'm worth.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Yes. Well, it wasn't just that, actually. It was uh, you know, the things that that you were talking about a minute ago, the things that go along with teaching that we don't like some of those things. Now, I'll be honest, probably the second time I retired probably was because I was tired of football games. Um you know, uh that drudgery well, it's not a drudgery, but you know it is too, you can say that. But you know, I just got tired of that. And that five years, you know, I didn't really miss the football games that much. Um I did miss the teaching, but not the football games. But along with being able to say, here's what I think I'm worth, is I was able to say, here's what I'm not going to do this time. I'm not going to do these extra chores. I'm not going to uh be a lunch monitor. I'm not going to do all these other jobs. Um, because number one, I'm old. And number two, I it does not interest me. It's one of the reasons I I couldn't, you know, the first time got out of it, because all the things that I was required to do. So it's not just the financial aspect when you come back, you're able to say, let's talk about what my responsibilities are. And that one of my uh older superintendents reminds me, you know, well, here you you come back to us, and now we go to the longest football season in the history of the school. So it's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Should have told them it's a good thing you hired me. I was a good luck charm. That's exactly right. But what a great point, Tim, on that situation, because you know, as you're younger teacher, you just do what you're told because you're just glad to have a job. But you know, it's there's something really awesome I can only imagine. Because I only experienced it as a being eligible to retire, but not a retiree hire. But you know, if you've retired and you've rehired, you know, and you you wouldn't do this because I know you, Tim. Any minute you can walk down to the office and turn in your keys. Yep. And it's it's not going to change your lifestyle, one iota, is it? You know what I mean? You're still gonna be Tim Edens the next morning. They can't eat you. You know what I mean? So it's you wouldn't do that to the kids, but isn't that it makes it where you actually want to come to work? Isn't that a weird psychological trick? You didn't Tim's nodding his head. It is, yeah. It's like, yeah, I don't mind going to work because I know I can quit anytime I want to. You know, there's I'm not beholden. It is a great motivator, actually. Yeah, it was, isn't it? Being angry quite part out loud power.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Our good friend Doyce, I think when he retired, uh, I think he kind of did it that manner is like, you know, I'm I'm done with it. He just went down after band and said, uh, I think I'm I think I'm done. Yeah, he wasn't mad, wasn't screaming at anybody. So I think I'm done, you know. And he was done. And he's still teaching. Oh my gosh, he's still going to do her bands. And Joan is relative for him.

SPEAKER_03 52:57

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

Yeah, Joanne kicks him out of the house occasionally. So you know. Don't you have a clinic you could go to somewhere? Yeah, could you get out of my kitchen, Doyce? Sorry, Doyce. If you're listening to this, we apologize for uh for talking about you in such a manner.

SPEAKER_05 53:13

Nah, he's laughing. You know he's laughing.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Oh, yeah, we know he's laughing. We know he's laughing. So and what I'm or go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mike. No, I was just gonna say one item to think about. It doesn't affect guys like Tim and I, because we're kind of in the heart of Texas. You know, we're we're really far from the borders. Um, but a lot of my friends that are in like that Wichita Falls, Sherman area, or Lubbeak, Amarillo, or even El Paso, um, keep in mind that when you retire as a band director in Texas, you can draw your full retirement and you can jump across to the other state and you can take a job and you can start vesting into their retirement.

SPEAKER_05 53:53

But does that is that no penalty for doing that immediately?

SPEAKER_02 53:56

I mean no penalty at all. In fact, let's say, like even with my teacher retirement, you know, uh, if I work when I worked for Academy selling guns for a while in their outdoors section, there was no penalty whatsoever. You're only penalized if you're somehow taking away from the TRS system. Because I I call it a penalty and everyone calls it a penalty, but and it does make sense, you know, because they have to have their money coming in. You know what I mean? It's uh they can't just say, oh, fine, we'll just pay you retirement and you'll be working, taking a job that a younger person would have had that would have been paying into TRS, but then you wouldn't be paying into TRS, you're just taking. So that part makes sense. But yeah, there's no penalty. They don't even care. It'll never even show a blip on their radar, you know. Where if you work for a Texas school, it will not only be a blip, it will be an incoming bomber. You know, I mean, the Tim knows what I'm talking about. Those letters will start coming, not threatening letters, you know, they're just informational letters, but it's a very passive, aggressive thing. You know what I mean? But it's like, here's your letters, you know.

SPEAKER_05 55:05

Just so you know, we know.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Yeah, that's right. Just so you know that we know you're working again.

SPEAKER_05 55:12

So, Mike, this is this this is gonna be a Mike question because I don't know. Just listening to the conversation we've had so far, I I understand why people do it. I guess they're getting full salary plus retirement from wherever they were. So the intent is not to build up retirement in another state necessarily, it's to take a full salary while you are getting your retirement benefits from Texas.

SPEAKER_02 55:37

Yes. And whatever you pay into retirement, let's say into New Mexico, then when you decide you want to quit teaching altogether again, you can draw that out of your account. Doesn't make sense. You don't retire again because we don't have, you know, we're not vampires, so we don't have that amount of time on our hands. You know what I mean? So we can uh we can sit there and just draw the money back out. Let's say you put $70,000 into the retirement account in Oklahoma. You know, you can turn around and go, okay, I'm I'm gonna stop altogether. You you you figure out what you're gonna do. I will say this too, not not as because I've just seen this happen. Um, so just kind of a legal issue to throw out there. And again, I'm not an attorney, but I've seen this happen both directions. If you quit teaching and you draw your money out of your TRS account, make sure that check is not in your name. If it's in your name, you pay tax on it. What you're get to get with Vanguard, get with uh Merrill Lynch, get with somebody, and roll that thing into a Roth or a 401. Uh, because I guess it's a yeah, but you have to get with a financial person, you've got to roll that over and you be very specific with TRS. Say that this check will be made out to Vanguard, and then that check will go directly to Vanguard and it'll be deposited for you. That way you're not held taxable for that. Because that's a big thing is I've seen people screw up and say, I'm just gonna take my money out, and TRS will do it. They don't, I mean, it's not that they don't care, I guess. It just doesn't affect their business life. You know what I mean? If I just call and say, Oh, I want my money out of my account, they would have cut me a check for after 31 years for like whatever $280,000. But guarantee that would bump me into the 37% income tax bracket, and I'd have had to pay all that tax on that windfall, and that I would have probably been taxed $80,000 on that amount. Where if I did just quit, which had been dumb at that point, but if I did just quit, then uh make sure that money is rolled over into some other financial uh instrument.

SPEAKER_05 57:44

So that's the other thing I was gonna not the same thing you're saying, but it almost makes more sense to me if you're drawing your retirement from TRS and drawing salary. We've talked about this for young people before. Maybe West Texas is if you don't know West Texas is barren and the towns are 50 miles apart. But I love it here, but it is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:05

If you're a young person, go make some of that money that they entice you to come out to the desert with and invest it early on. So, same concept. If you're still getting your retirement, but you're teaching in another state, use all that salary for three to five years. You could probably do some pretty good investing. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not a financial wizard. I'm the last person to take financial advice from. But does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Is that a doable thing? My my recommendation for people who jump the border to do that into New Mexico or Oklahoma or wherever, I guess on the other side of the state I'm not as familiar with. I guess I could jump into Louisiana or Arkansas. Um, but whatever monies you receive from that entity, I would not live on that.

unknown 58:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

I would use that completely as investment. Now, our problem runs, and and Tim can vouch for this because I've I've seen it happen just in the seven years I've been retired. We've had one cost of living adjustment, a cola. And uh that was the first one, I think, Tim, in like 20 years, something like that. So inflation is is going quicker than our pensions rise. And this sounds like a first world problem because there's a lot of people who just love to have a pension instead of a 401k, because a 401k is different than a pension. Pension, you get paid that same amount until the day I get put under the ground. You know what I mean? A 401k, when the money runs out, the money runs out. The party's over, turn on, turn off on the lights, the party's over. You know what I mean? Um, so make sure that as you're drawing that money in, that you realize that you know, and that cost of living is going to go up. Your pension amount in TRS is not gonna match the rate of inflation. So you've we've got to do something. Has that affected some of your decisions, Tim? Because you said you retired right on the get-go.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

I uh yes. And you know, that's that's why I'm not, you know, I don't I don't get a whole lot actually from my pension every month, simply because I locked in that rate of two 2011. Yeah, you know, and here we are 15 years later, and I'm still getting that small amount. Um, and like you said, we've only gotten one cost of living, and it was it was not anywhere keeping in with a inflation at all. I mean, um, so yeah, I I deal with that a lot. Uh my it just seems like my pension is shrinking smaller and smaller and smaller because inflation is, you know, rising so sharply. Um, but thankfully, um, you know, this job allows me not to worry about that too much. But probably I do worry about that down the line when I actually do have to really retire. Um am I going to be able to live comfortably on that on those 2011 dollars?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah, that is an issue. I know that uh a really good friend of all of ours, Mr. Ralph Samaripa, Mr. Z, he retired and uh uh and then he kept teaching because he loves teaching. There's no doubt about it. But when he passed away, he was 85 years old and teaching middle school band, and he still enjoyed teaching, luckily. But just think if he hated teaching. But part of that was the fact he had this very transparent conversation with me. He goes, Man, I retired 30 years ago. Said I cannot live on that retirement amount at 85 years of age, because according to the government, we should die by the time we're 78. That's just statistically how things work, you know. Um, but he outlived his pension. Um, so you know, keep that in mind if you're looking at retiring, that uh makes sure that the retire rehire thing is a great advantage because Tim's done it well financially. He's very intelligent how he's worked that system. And I mean worked it in a good way, and not worked it as some kind of, I made that sound like a scam or something. You know what I mean? But he he made sure he took care of all the situations that needed to happen so that he can live comfortably right now and he can take money and invest it. Um, but not everyone does that, you know what I mean? Um, and I think it comes down to you talked about emotions, Derek, with uh as jobs. I think sometimes we fall for the uh trap of that our job is a calling and not a job. And I think in some ways it is a calling, but if we see it as a calling, like a priest, you know, then we kind of forget all the logistical things around it because there's no one to take care of us when the calling runs out. So see it as a calling. I see it as a calling, but I don't see as a calling so much so that I forget the other side of the logbook, you know, the ledger. Just something to think about for all you youngsters out there.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

You saw me look off to the side real quick. It's fun when you were talking, just Keen, one of the things I say all the time, I have a sign on my wall says there's no lack of knowledge out there, just a lack of people asking questions. Ask the questions. Yeah. It's there's you know, ignorance is excusable unless you maintain it intentionally. If this is something you're considering, there are people you can contact to talk to.

unknown 1:03:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

Whether that's somebody that's been through the process or whether that's the bureaucracy of digging and that's going to be frustrating and might take a bit, but the knowledge is there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Yeah, and someone like Tim has done it so well that he's a wealth of information, more than I've ever dreamed of thinking of. But you know, TRS, even if you've only been teaching two years, you can make an appointment. They will meet with you. You can, if you want to drive down to Austin, they'll meet with you. Just uh a Mike Lenny throw in here for a tangent. Um, if you want to call them, make sure you do it at seven in the morning. If you even if you're retired, just set your alarm if you're uh not a morning person, because you'll get through in about 15 minutes at seven in the morning. If you try to hit Tim's laughing because he knows what I'm talking about, if you call it two, I've been put on hold for as long as two hours. I'll sit there and watch, I'll watch a whole movie on TV with my phone on speakerphone going with a music soundtrack, you know, and finally someone comes on, you know. So just something to think about because they are really busy. And I was kind of rough on them earlier, but the the people that work within that system, um, they they are good people and they do want to answer your questions. Sometimes they they get in conflict with each other. You know what I mean? It's like they answer the question the way they interpret it because there's the law and there's the rules and there's the interpretation of laws and rules of how they interpret it. So, you know, like Derek said, man, get in with the bureaucracy part, even though it's frustrating, but talk to a bunch of people because you'll you'll hear the things, the quiet parts, you know, of what to do. But Tim's done a great job getting through this.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

I'll second that, you know. Uh going down, I mean, physically going down and setting up an employment, going down and talking to TRS. I got so much information. It was yeah, there weren't any conflicts about misunderstanding something over the phone or an email or something dry like that. Um, you know, it was an informative meeting. And I would encourage anybody, if you're considering it, even if you're five years out, uh do it. Make a make an appointment and go down and talk to them. Um, it will help you, I think, in some cases, make your decision. Um, either that either yes, this is a possibility or no, this won't be. Uh, but you know, certainly you have to keep keep up with what your future is going to be. And that's a big part of it, you know, in in our field, uh retirement and how to how to do it without it. Uh, how to how to retire and not have that in our life. And And TRS can help with that. So and I also think, kind of like you said, it's one of the few things in the state that actually works. Uh that's why they have so much money. Yeah. Um they are, man, they know how to invest.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

Oh my gosh. If you want to, it's called Parrot Investing. If you want to copy the investment practices of TRS, you will make money. You will. They are amazing. They're one of the the five, one of five biggest investment firms in the nation. Think about that. And successful at that. But like Tim was saying, if you meet with the person in person, because let me tell you another quiet part out loud, the ones you talk to on the phone, they're the trainees.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:41

They have a script.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

Yeah, they're the lowest ones in the totem pole. They're learning and uh they're like student teachers. You know, they're learning what they're doing. And so sometimes they get confused. But if you make an appointment and go down there, you're talking to the people who've done that for like 15, 16 years. And, you know, they'll tell you about windfall eliminations provision. I think the thing I heard in my that I'd never heard, that I never even thought about when I talked to them, they go, now make sure you're doing something because you will outlive your pension. No one's had the guts to say that to me, much less I had all the respect in the world for that TRS person to tell me that said, please don't think that this is going to pay for you to live comfortably your entire life. It'll be a great benefit, a fantastic benefit. But you're gonna have to figure out something, you know. And luckily I had our things figured out already in advance. But still, sometimes I think people think that about Social Security too. They think Social Security is gonna take care of all their needs. It's it's a band-aid on an open wound, you know, it's a band-aid on a gunshot. You know what I mean? It's it's there and it will help. And it's it you can survive. You can you can buy enough soup and bologna to little live. But if you want to live comfortably, um, you've got to figure out, like Tim did, figure out something, how to do it, work for a music store, come back and be rehired. Um, you can uh use this uh all this information to your benefit financially and emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Okay. So one of the things like you just talked about, what I'm doing right now does afford me that opportunity to make those investments for later down the line. Yeah, you know, because I get paid well enough now to where I can invest, and a lot of a lot of my salary goes to that. So that 10 years from now, when I'm probably not in front of this group, or you know, they buried me out on the practice field somewhere, um, I still have some money to live on.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

I like how you say that. My my set point is on Mr. Edon. Where are you on this set? I'm on top of Mr. Edden.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:53

Please don't be drummers. Oh, I'm sorry, I just probably have our audience there.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

So I've always told my son, said when I die, just have me cremated and sprinkle my ashes on the Wiley practice field. That way the kids can walk all over me every day like they did for 19 years.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:13

Just go out there.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:16

And I'm I'm gonna ask one last thing, and I'm trying to respect uh those of us, you know, I know there's things to do, but one of the points we made several years ago on an episode, I think we were talking to Mike Watts, is that don't wait to start the retirement planning. One of the reasons we're talking about this now is young people start thinking about this stuff now.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:39

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:40

So you have a plan to follow and you don't have to suddenly go, how do I do this? And you're kind of stuck with the time crunch on your hand, going, I gotta figure this out right now, as opposed to thinking about it from year one, two, three, four, and going, all right, someday I'm gonna want to take advantage of this TRS system, or I'm gonna want to plan on a retirement. Because I think you touched on it briefly, is Amaripa situation where you realize I have to teach. That's different than I want to teach.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:15

Yeah, yeah. The table gets turned.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:18

So I don't don't know that we need much other commentary on that other than that, but I would recommend you know, young people, we feel bulletproof, don't we? My brain still thinks like a young person a lot of the times. I realize my body doesn't act like one. But we we think we're bulletproof when we get started. You know, Mike and I have talked about it. Tim, I don't know if you ever felt this way, but even when I was in school, I was gonna be the next best band director this state had ever seen. Just watch me.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

That's right. I know a lot. I'm really good. Just ask my mama.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

And then reality kind of slaps you in the face here of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

It's Mike Tyson thing. I knew everything until that first punch in the face. Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:08

So Lord, but Tim, I don't know if you if you've come to a place in this conversation where you could say, Yeah, let's wrap this up this way. Uh, or here's my two cents for this this concept of retire and then rehire. We've kind of hit all the different parts of retirement, but the retire rehire worked out for you. It did. So here's I guess I'll ask you this way. Do you care if anybody contacts you and says, hey, how'd you do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:36

Oh, I don't mind at all. Absolutely not. Um I I'm always very open with that. I mean, I was very lucky uh to have the opportunity to do this. And you know, at the time working for Intune, I thought, you know, that's where my career path was going to be. And then, you know, getting that call that day, uh, saying, hey, we, you know, here's here's an offer, um kind of changed that a little bit. But you know, it was a fantastic change. Now, back doing what my first passion, you know, which is teaching. So, yeah, anybody who has a question, I'd be happy to answer or try. Or yeah, if you get a real answer.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:16

Mike, I I'll tell you this. Tim called me after he had his conversation. He goes, Well, and he was pretty kind and matter of fact about it. This is where I am. And and I think in the conversation, I was like, Oh, great for you. That's awesome. I understand completely. And as soon as I hug up the phone, I threw it at the wall and screamed.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:38

But you just lost a good hand.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:42

But you know, not to I've I've told people this, and this is most of the people that listen to this aren't ed reps for a music company, but it's a fantastic job if you love teaching and kids, uh, but you don't have to deal with any of the bureaucracy at all. You show up at a band hall, you talk band, you talk kids, you you talk seasons, and then you get to get in your car and drive away. So that that part of our job is pretty cool. But uh, it also I think most of the people listening would agree, it's pretty invaluable to have somebody that knows what you do, that's empathetic to where you are, that can say, Hey, I get it. Here's how I can help. So we loved having Mr. Edens as part of the team doing that. But I'm so glad to see you still having fun. Glad to see, near as I could tell, still at a high rate of success uh down there in Hamilton, Texas. So we're getting there.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

Humble as well. I I I really did enjoy being a roadman. And anybody who loves this job, I would encourage you to go do it for a while at least. I mean, it's it's a fascinating look at the other side of what we do. And you know, when you really look at it, the music company is part of why we're successful. Um, I I have always said that. The one of the reasons we have success is because partly because of this music company that calls on us that allows us to have the things that we need to be successful. Um it's it's a great, fantastic uh job. I mean, I really loved it. Um anyway. Just again, you get to carry your baton around. That's right. I I always said, well, they actually pay me to go see my friends. So that's yeah, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:35

I love that. Awesome. All right. Anything you'd wrap us up with, Mike?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

Hey, just one little tiny thing, and it I know this sounds like grandpa talking, um, but I ran the numbers this morning. If you're 22 years old right now and you're a band director, if you can find $75 a month to invest, then I ran the numbers on my financial calculator on the and tabulated it. By the time you're 65, you'd have $1.85 million. Wow. Wow. Think about that for a second. And not change anything. $75, but you have to start at $22. By the time you start at $40, um, you would have to invest. I figured out it would have to be like $450 a month to get to that point. But $75 a month, and I know not everyone has $75. I understand that, I respect that, but just I'm throwing that out there. Get with someone at age 22, and that way the TRS becomes just an additional thing on your plate.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:29

Okay. Right. But let me okay, you got to talk to the ignorant. Here I am. When you say invest, what kind of simple investment are you talking about? I mean, if I've never done that, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

Yeah, um, do not be a day trader. Day traders are called one thing broke. Okay. Don't be a day trader. You know, day traders are broke. Get with a firm. I I use, I'll just throw it out there. I use Merrill Lynch and I've used them for uh 43 years now. And they've been my bread and butter. But it doesn't have to be, it could be anybody, but it just needs to be ETFs or some kind of index fund or some kind of diversified portfolio and just let them do the thinking for you. We don't explain to the dentist how to pull our tooth, do we? You know, so you've got to have enough faith in your financial person to say, here's my money. Um, in fact, I I'm getting some dental work done. So I had to call my financial person and she goes, Oh, so you need an allowance. Yeah, can you give me some of my money back? But you know, I have no idea what they do with it, you know, but I just I I I follow it. But but yeah, but yeah, investing it. Don't just sit there and get on some kind of this app on your phone and start investing into things. Sit down with a financial specialist and start with $75 a month and just don't touch it. The rule of 72 will be like a Bible to you. The rule of 72, it'll double if you take the interest rate. You know what I mean? So, and it'll double over and over and over and over and over. Compound interest is such a wonderful thing, but you got to have time. Time is on your side, time is not on my side. I'm too close to the end. Time is not on my side. So if you're 22, you use that time to your favor, okay?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:11

I just started singing Blue Oyster Cult. I don't know if Tim caught the time is on my side, but time is on my side.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:19

Anyway. Um that that's my ramp is uh that way TRS has to be whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:26

But see, I wanted to hear you say that because people like me, you say invest, and that's just this big scary thing for me. Call somebody I don't know and say, hey, I don't have very much money, but I want to give it to you. But that's how we start.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:40

Yeah, and it's it's a thing of where uh it's a cultural thing of how we've been raised, because my dad um charged us income tax to live in his house. Okay. So when I worked at Ken's Pizza, I had to use 15% of my income and I had to give it to my dad. Now, when I was 22, he gave me a check for like $21,000 because unbeknownst to me, he'd been taking my money and investing it for my brother, my sister, and myself. And then he said, okay, tomorrow we're going down to Merrill Lynch and we're gonna we're gonna take this money and we're gonna invest it. And he he kind of got me through the process at the age of 22, and he and he he taught me how to do that. Now he didn't teach me finances, he just taught me the reality of I went, you know, all that money, I just thought my dad was weird, which he was kind of weird. Um, but you know, but uh but he took 15% of my income. I when I mowed a yard, if I get $10, I had to give him $1.50. Okay. So he he charged us income tax. And we thought he was using it to pay bills. And then all of a sudden he just throws out that money. And to give you an idea about it, the house we were sitting in when he gave me that check, he bought for $17,500. My first car was $500, my college degree was $8,000. So that's almost like being 22 right now and being handed $100,000. Wow. It's a cultural thing of uh if start the cycle. If you haven't had that luxury of having a parent that was really in grind with that, um, you know, allow allow you to be the first. You know, if you're a young person out there, just go to Merrill Lynch and say, I want to invest 75 bucks a month. How's that gonna hurt you? You know?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:27

Money makes money.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:29

Money makes money.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:31

Tim, thank you for your time, brother. I know you got teaching to do. Mike and I, we don't we just sit and talk till we're done talking.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:37

Yeah, I'm I'm just gonna go take a nap. I mean, it's you know I'm done for the day. I'm done for the day.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:44

I appreciate you, friend. I hope you come back and talk to us more sometime. Good talking to you all.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:49

Anything to Mike, anything else? You good? No, I'm I'm I don't know if I'm good, but I'm done.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:55

Oh, you're good. We appreciate it. Thank you. And we appreciate everybody that listens. Uh y'all uh have a question? You know where to send the emails? Other than that, y'all have fantastic weeks.