Marching: Points of Procedure

In previous episodes, Mike Lunney has discussed fundamentals and techniques. This week he discusses his thoughts on creating a working vocabulary for your ensemble to reduce instruction time, and different procedural aspects of introducing fundamentals and teaching concepts to help your ensemble achieve success!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's good to see you, my friend. Hey, good to see you guys. Enjoying it out there on the open road, sharing the gospel of uh of music education and all the positive benefits thereof, watching the kids become great. And oh wait, has that happened yet?

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Is it is it that time of year already? Right now we're in the uh the uh psychological uh therapy sessions with band directors. You can do it, you can do the call thing. I don't know what to do. Superintendent. All right, let's talk about this. Did did your father love you?

SPEAKER_02 0:38

If only there was an experienced musical educator who could say, Hey, I bet I could teach you some procedures that would help you become a better educator, whether that's right, marching or music in general or life, forget about the kids. Let's talk about your procedures.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, yeah, and I tell you what, and these are all stolen. Um, I will take no credit for knowing any of these, and you know, uh coming up with any of these. So uh, you know, our last podcast that we uh aired was on marching fundamentals with the emphasis on fun, no emphasis on duh, you know. So we had fun duh mentals, so we worked on that. Now the next step is rehearsal procedures.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

But before you do this, I'm gonna challenge you for you keep saying none of this was original, none of this that you stole it all, blah blah blah. But once you acquire knowledge and then you apply it, it becomes yours. It's I mean, if you're saying I've and listen, you've had plenty of original thoughts. I've been witness to them. I'm not sure we could air them all, but you have plenty of original thoughts. But I gotta give you props for figuring out which pieces of advice to borrow, to claim, to apply. And then it does kind of become. I mean, listen, people know you as this person who does this this way. Whether you take credit for the original thought or not, that's the beauty of what we do. We share, we learn, and smart people learn how to apply smart things.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Oh, I appreciate the most difficult thing because you know, like when we teach someone to play an instrument and A is first and second valve on my trumpet, we're not gonna figure out a new way to do that, but we are gonna figure out a new way to make music.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Right. And so the beauty of what you get to do here, which I love just being a fly on the wall of this uh great adventure, is you get to share some of these things with other people, and it's up to them to grab or apply or use or not. But isn't that the process of life that we were taught, we applied, and now we get to teach. Yes, we get to share, we get to help other people be successful. So, having said all that, but I say some of that because uh just like the word fundamental, procedures not usually my first word that I think of. Oh, goody.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, we're gonna talk about procedures today. Oh boy. Waity not you gum in class, you know, or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

But the concept being it's gonna make us all better. So share with us, man. Marching procedures, where do we start?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, I tell you what, you know, it's uh in my career within my rehearsals, as I've realized how inefficient we were doing things and trying to figure out ways to make it more efficient and calling people to come in and watch me and then tell me that I sucked as a band director and I needed to do things better. Um, so I started to piece things together, and then now I'm on that other end where I go watch bands rehearse and I just kind of look at the band director and go, we're, you know, we're cramming 20 minutes of rehearsal into an hour right here. So what's going on here? So uh, you know, so if we can figure out as an individual how we want to rehearse our band, have some key points that kind of trigger things in the kids' minds, um, you can have a very, very efficient rehearsal. And uh there's quite a few directors who it's in different camps, you know, there's quite a few directors who will teach really, really strong fundamentals, but then they're really not sure exactly how to run a rehearsal. And I know directors who can really run a good rehearsal, but they don't take the time or they're not really confident in teaching fundamentals.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Right. But what are they rehearsing?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Yeah, uh, they're just kind of like uh play more introspectively, you know. Well, I don't know what does that mean? I don't know. You know, pretty clouds. Yeah, yeah, be ethereal right here. You know, so we need the the melody must float above the canvas of sound that we've caused in the front ensemble. Okay, so I mean, do your thing, you know, you guys go out there, be strong. Okay. Um, but I'm telling you that if you have certain procedures in place on how to teach, and the class knows how you're gonna teach, life is a whole lot easier. Here's some points to use for rehearsal procedure. And this first tiny section in the podcast is in a lot of ways the most important one in this entire packet. Um, these definitions that the kids must know, the staff must know, you must know, you must have your terminology. You don't have to use my terminology. Um, but I call it standby. Standby is parade rest with feet together, horn at rest, eyes on me, or whoever's giving instruction. So they put their heels, put their heels together, their feet are whatever degree you like them at, 45 degree, 90 degree, toes together, your deal. Okay. But the important part is their horns in front of their body and they're standing still, and their nose points at the person who's talking. Whether a drum major or a band director or a marching tech or whatever. Okay. That's standby. So they need to know that that's like telling a dog to sit. I mean, I hate to be so blunt, but it's like telling your dog to sit. When you tell your dog to sit, the dog sits. Okay. Um, you tell your band standby, they should know what standby means. It doesn't mean wiggle around and talk about sonic cherry lime aids and whatever else. They and it's it's a process, you know. You gotta sometimes you gotta be patient and you just gotta wait for them to kind of settle in, and they'll finally realize just like a good puppy dog, you're gonna jerk on that leash enough times to where it's like we're not going any further than standby. And uh, we're not gonna be able to march and play. So get them used to standby. Okay. The next definition is set, S E T set, horns to carry and say set on instruction, such as starting a rehearsal number. So we go like starting at set 14, measure 41, set. Okay. And then I like to do it where the uh students, either the students repeat that back to you at least the first portion. I really like doing it. I had a drum major and they would take turns because I had three drum majors, and each day a separate drum major would repeat the instructions after I said it, and then the band would repeat the instructions after the drum major set it. So even the slowest child on the field would at least hear the instructions three times. If we said set 14, uh, we're gonna start in set 14 in the marching show. That's measure 40, set. And the drum major would go, set 14, measure 40, set. And all the band would go, set 14, measure 40, set. And that way a child who maybe wasn't paying attention or maybe is not as intellectually prowess of the rest of the grouping around him, um, could uh could go, I heard that three times. I bet we're starting at set 14. All right. I bet it's measure 40. He might not know what measure 40 is, but at least he has an idea of where we're starting. Okay. I like to have him uh vocalize the horns up as we're using a metronome start, you know, five, six, you know, whatever you want to do it, but there has to be some sort of vocalization. And the hardest thing, my director friends are gonna just roll their eyes at this because they know it's so true. Just get them to do it. Because they'll just quit counting. They'll quit saying horns up, they'll quit repeating the set. It's a constant battle of everyone needs to count, everyone needs to vocalize, everyone needs to vocalize what we're doing. Push and one, two, three, four, platform close. Whatever your vocalization is, make them do it over and over and uh don't give up on them. Don't give up on them. There's a certain psychological battle as we're pushing things from the forward part of our brain, the cerebral cortex, to our middle brain, to our hind brain, to which is a habitual thing, is that we hear the instructions, we do it over and over and over again, and then it kind of makes it into a habit. But until it's away from the front part of our brain, then they're just gonna be confused all the time. So they've got the vocalizers. A certain deal of vocalizing makes that happen. It's not a trick, it just physically and mentally makes that happen. Um, call and response things, kind of like my good Methodist church friends, call and response, they love that. Okay. Um, but if if asking got it, the response is yes, sir, yes, ma'am. Okay. You get them to do something. Okay. Ask all to raise hand if you want to confirm they're listening. Everyone, uh, I like to say everyone uh wiggle your horn. You know, so they'll hold their horn up in there and they'll wiggle it. You know, that way at least you know they're listening because you'll see the 15 that aren't holding their horn in the air and they're looking around like, why is everybody doing this?

SPEAKER_02 9:47

What are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah, because they weren't listening, you know, and we're all guilty of that. Don't get me wrong. I'm I'm just as big an idiot as anybody. Um, but you know, if you do that enough times, then pretty soon they actually do start listening. Mr. Even Mr. Lenny, when he's in an ensemble, um, if the director says enough times the same thing, then I start listening to it, okay?

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Uh while learning drill, this is really super important. When they finish a drill set, like so we're going to set 21 and we're stopping. And we want to set that drill, okay? So hopefully everyone's with me now. Um, we freeze at that last moment. We don't wiggle, we don't move, we don't move our head, we don't adjust our feet. We freeze at that end point. The end point might be a platform close, it might be a plus one going to the next drill set. We might have them stop in a minus one, which is our left foot, the count before the halt point. Okay. That sounds complicated, but I think most of my director brethren know exactly what I mean. Okay. So we freeze. And you have got you've got to say it over and over and over because they will forget. Because what what does every band do? They get to that point and then they all wiggle around to find their place, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Relax, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah. And then once they find their place, they start talking to each other. Okay. Um, so work on getting them to freeze. The next word you say is check. Check the horn is still up if we're playing, and they only allow to move their head. They can look around. They can't move their feet yet or their body. They have to live in their wrongness.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

I've heard you say that before. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah, they have to, they have to experience their wrongness. They have to, and what they're supposed to be doing, and they'll do it, is they become little band directors, uh, assistant band directors for us. They will check and then they're supposed to be listening and looking around and going, I didn't quite make it to my set. So the next time we do this, I'll need to take a bigger step. Or I overshot my set point, but I can't move my feet yet. I'm living in my wrongness. So I'm going to take a smaller step the next time we march this drill. They're supposed to be analyzing, and if they if they got to the right spot, then it's great. They can go, I did it correctly. How cool is that? You know, now I can just have to repeat it, just rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. You know, so it's really cool. So freeze, check, and the last one is adjust. Adjust is the miracle word. Adjust, they can now move their feet. They can move to the set point and they can uh continue to evaluate their mistake. And they can help out the younger students. You know, if you've got good leadership in your band, which is hard to come by, because we we don't want it to be caustic, where they're like, hey, stupid freshman, don't you know what you're doing? You know, but if they if they stop and everyone uh freezes and they check and they adjust, sometimes the freshman maybe doesn't know where to go. They're like, I he said adjust, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Well, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Right. And I they know what it means, but they don't know where their set point is. I get it. Yeah, so it's like what do I do? Yeah, scoot up, you're gonna be this far from me. Okay, I do this. So next time you march this, Johnny, you know, you're the trumpet section leader. So you're next time you march this, take a bigger step size so you'll get there or take more of an angle towards the 50, or take less of an angle. Give them instruction as a band director, as an assistant band director on the field, as a marching tech. And uh, if you're lucky enough in a big enough program where you have marching techs on the field, then those marching techs will be doing that religiously. They'll just be going down the line telling everybody, hey, next time do this, next time do that. Hey, you did that really well. Next time do that, hey, good fist bump, good job. Okay, you know, they're the ones that are doing the real work. If you're the CEO band director up front, just run and drill, that's the easy part. Okay, the field techs are doing the hard part. So we're not always that have the luxury of field techs. So you have to kind of rely on the the band students to be field techs. So freeze, check, adjust. Adjust. Okay. That has to happen every single time. And you've got to leave them in freeze long enough and leave them in check long enough where they understand their wrongness. If they if they hit it exactly right, then they can live in their correctness, which is a cool feeling. I know that feeling from marching and going through this procedure as a marcher. You know, it's like, yeah, yeah, I did it right for once. Okay. So some other things, this is kind of a little bit hodgepodgy, maybe, in this podcast, but these are all just little things that kind of help clean a band. Uh I call it the the hover stretch. Bring up the heels, pretend a big old bungee cord is attached to the top of their head and is pulling up the top of their head, and then it goes all the way to a big pulley in the air, and all those bungee cords for the whole band come to Mr. Lunny. And Mr. Lenny pulls the cord and it stretches everybody's bodies up. We both just did that at the same time. Yeah. Isn't that funny? They they just all do that, you know. And a funny trick to play on them is uh now. I can't do it too many times because the smart ones figure out it's coming. I'll say, put your hand in the air, and then they'll put their hand there. Now stretch up as far as you can, as far as you can, keep stretching, keep stretching. And then you pause for a second, you go, just a little bit more. And everyone in the band will go up about one more inch. I said, Oh, so y'all are liars. Wow. So you're lying to me. You're saving a little something, something back there. You know, so I said, I said three times, stretch as hard as you can to get your fingertips as far in the air as you can. And then I paused, I went, just a little bit more. And they just go, they just do just a little bit more. And so I tell them, said, you know, when you're doing the hover stretch, it's the same thing. I want the full, give me 100% of how you're going to stretch your body and get that distance between your hip bone and your rib cage. Okay. Um, and then the parallel foot swing exercise. Um, you push the platform of your right foot and it makes your left foot rise a little bit. Then you can let your left foot kind of swing like a pendulum without touching the turf. And it takes some balance. You know what I mean? That's where we come back to our core strength and our PT stuff or whatever, because that's not easy to do necessarily. And the the bigger a student is, the harder it is for them to do, to execute, because it's harder to find the center of gravity when you have more weight to deal with. Okay. But they can do it. They can do it. I've seen 300-pound kids do this, you know, really well. Um, but it's just a matter of just doing it enough times to where they understand what to do with their body. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

And I would guess one of the keys there is not leaning to create the space for your pendulum leg.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Yes. Yeah, not leaning.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

You actually have to lift.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

And then you got to switch and use the other leg, you know, push down with the right platform, let the right leg do the pendulum back and forth. Not in time, just kind of making sure it's all coming from the hip, not bending the knee. That way you start to execute your body motion with what really needs to happen when you step off. You can't step off unless you raise your foot off the ground. Right. You can't raise your foot off the ground without doing this. If you don't do this, you have to bend your knee to raise your foot off the ground. Right. And we don't want to have big, huge bicycle steps. Now we're back to Michael Munoz resistance bands. I tried putting those like he told told us and put it across my legs. Holy my goodness. You know, it's like uh I tried walking on a treadmill at Planet Fitness with one of those on. First thing is people are looking at me like, is this guy What's wrong with this guy? They're used to the old man doing weird stuff at the gym, you know. So I'm just the weird old man that's just everyone ignores. But but man, it he was right. You cannot bend your knees. You you're marching straight leg, buddy. And I'm on the treadmill. I do that for a mile. And my calves were screaming, and my quads were screaming, and my hamstrings were screaming, and I was cussing at myself under my breath. There was it was a no under 18 circle of censorship around me. You know, if there was a high school kid next to me, I got I gotta stop because I'm calling myself all kinds of names. You know what I mean? Um that's funny. So it takes a lot of energy to do this right. So the hover stretch works, parallel foot swing exercise. Um, when we get to the podcast of Mr. Munoz of Denver City, this is gonna be a game changer for a lot of your band programs. It's gonna be my new evangelistic uh thing, is gonna be that. Okay. Then the next thing we've got to figure out in a rehearsal and in our how we're gonna do things is what's our teaching sequence? I mean, we can't just say, let's learn the first four measures of the drill. There has to be some sort of sequence to it. We have to get them into a position of attention. We've gone through that with fundamentals in the last podcast. Um, we go through the process of how starting with a metronome, we vocalize horns up, push and one. Whatever your vocalization is, it relates to their body movement. They have to speak it, they have to make it so. Even when the earth was created, God spoke it and made it so. Okay, so when we march, we speak to make it so. We're we're govern what we do with our bodies. The use of the word set, we've already gone on that. We talk about our step off. That's the fourth thing we talk about. We say and vocalize. Forward eight, halt, push and one, platform close is what I like. The step off is push and one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, platform close, two, three, four, five, six, seven, push and one, two, three. So you get them to do that. Everyone must count. And they're not yelling, but everyone must count. Because just a sidelight for if your band out there has problems with phasing in your show, it's usually because there's a gap in sound with a pulse pocket where certain kids aren't playing, and they're gonna figure that out when they're learning drill. If not everyone's counting, they will phase on the field. And it's not that a group is rushing or a group is dragging, it's that people aren't counting. If they all count, they will stay together. At least there's a 99% chance they will. Okay. Okay. And then we do a forward eights, backward eights, add variations, slides. I put on my deal rule of the opposites. So if I slide, um going to my right, I pull my left shoulder back. Difficult-wise. If I'm going to the left, I pull my right shoulder back. Okay, so that's the rule of the opposites. That kind of triggers brain cells in their head. Okay. Box drills, start with left, then right, then left, followed by right. So you kind of build up your box drills. Hip shifts, concentrate on placing the right platform foot. Listen to this closely, guys and ladies. Concentrate on placing the right platform foot at a 40, the heel at a 45 degree angle to execute the hip shift. If your foot is directly in parallel, like those old Nordic track machines, you know, or like go in the same direction of travel. You put your right platform down, you kick your heel out the direction you want your hips to shift. And that'll give you such a uh a powerful moment where it's so easy to do correctly, where you're not trying to twist your body. And but you got everything happens on that uh right platform, that knobby part behind your big toe. So, in other words, we're prepping with our foot placement.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

And then uh we the next thing we do, we work on graduated step size. We do variations of step size to mimic the show drill. Dig into your show. I in the past one on fundamentals and marching uh like summer band, we just did it like do 12 to 5, do 16 to 5, do 32 to 5, barely crawl. You know what I mean? Right. Um, but I I always like digging into the show and going, the hardest part we're gonna do right here is gonna be like, it's almost like I don't know, 15 to 5. You know what I mean? That's the step size that happens. So we kind of work on that. I pull that out and then I say, you should end up about six inches in front of the next yard line as we do this. So we do it, they mark it, put down a poker chip, however, we mark our field. Uh, then we go back, do it again, go back, do it again, because it's just muscle memory. We're just trying to figure out, trying to teach their bodies to do what they need to do. Um, W drills. Well, I was at Wiley High School, so we called it the W drill. I guess you could flip it upside down if you're at Menard and call it the Menard drill. Um, you know, so but it's when you do a W drill, you're going from your dot and then look at the dot on the yard line in front of you and then count over two dots if the dots are four step dots, like in most field drills, it's blue dots. Okay. You look over there, that's not going to be eight steps. It's going to be exactly 12 steps. Hello, Mr. Pythagorean theorem. A squared plus B squared equals C squared. Okay, so it works out perfect. Okay. So it's a perfect 12-step. So it's 11 platform close. 9, 10, 11 platform close. So get them used to that because most of the time they're not marching straight to the press box. Very rarely are they marching straight to the end zones. It's almost always some angle in between, isn't it? So kind of figure that out and go now. Go over one more blue dot. And then you kind of try to mess with them and go, How many steps do you think that'll be? I said, let's try 16. 16 is the answer, by the way. So they'll go 16 because that'll be three blue dots to the left or three blue dots to the right. Okay. So you start getting them to use their brains to analyze it a little bit. So when they're doing the drill, they're going, This is where I'm standing. That's where I'm ending up. That's like the W drill, three blue dots over. And I've got 16 counts to do it. Man, life is good. But you might have 32 counts to do it. So you got to take a half step.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Half step, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

So see, already it's like even Derek as a trumpet player was figuring it out quick. Even Derek could figure that out. If Derek can figure it out, that's going to be our deal for every freshman who can figure it out. If Derek can figure it out, every freshman can figure it out. Um, but then horns to the box versus box level, because box means to where the judges are seated. Okay. So if you're outside, the horns are facing in a little bit. Okay. Box level is just 45 degrees, straight up, straight to the front sideline. So there's different variations of this. A lot of times in band, and this is very effective, by the way, we use what's called a focal point. So it might be like the light behind the press box, or it might, you know, it's not necessarily the drum major's podium. It can be whatever you want it to be, but that's where all the horns are going to point. It might not be the press box, but it might be a light stand in the practice field. Um, but it's called a focal point. And the focal point is usually past the press box.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Let me ask you a question real quick about that because you know, my brain rabbits. But there are even in West Texas, every stadium has a little bit different of an angle. For instance, there's a stadium in Midland that's very low. I mean, the slope is not nearly the same as it is at a stadium in Odessa.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

So are you always saying find the yeah, are you always pointing at the judges? I guess is what I'm asking when you say that. In my opinion, yeah. No, that's what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah. In my opinion, I like to do it at 45 degrees. Now, if you're using a focal point at the stadium, they memorize that focal point at Fredericksburg Stadium. They memorize that focal point. And so their body knows what to do. And so it doesn't matter where they're at, they do it the same way. Because you're exactly right. I tell you, one of the lowest press boxes there are is the Alamo Dome. Oh, really? Yeah, because the the press box is under the second viewing deck.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

I'd never considered that.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

So it's it's it's lower than the Wiley High School in Abilene press box. Isn't that interesting? You know, but so we don't want to change. It's like, oh, well, we're at the Alamo Dome, so now do this, and you know, point at the the this particular fire hydrant that's up above the deal that sprays water if there's a fire in the stadium. You know, that's so complicated. You know, sure. We just want to teach them that on the practice field, it's this level, whatever it is for you, and then keep at that level. Okay. So box level is straight to the front sideline. To the box is whatever you use as your focal point. 45 degrees, everyone to the 50. We just don't want to get in situations where kids are next to each other, their horns are crossing each other.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Right. You know, 30 versus 45 versus 60. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

As far as and a good way to avoid that is anyone inside the I used the 40s. Anyone inside the 40s, there's no difference between box level and to the box. We don't want them, you know, it's always box level. I say horns to the box. If you're if you're for whatever reason, your set points between the 40s, you never shift your horn to the left or right.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

You just can't board.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah. That way you don't have like two people on the 48s, you know, crossing, you know, the bells are crossing each other. Sure, you know, kind of thing. Because that'll happen, you know, because they're they're working hard. They're they're in band, not you know, it's not all speed boats and hundred dollar bills and supermodels, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

They're uh and we're pretty literal at that age.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah, pretty literal, say, yeah, to they'll they'll they'll do whatever they think they're supposed to be doing. Um, and then you know, body movement would be the next thing that we kind of introduce within our rehearsals, just making sure that's and it's it'll be on an additional handout. Um, but you know that body movement is so important in today's show that platform run, staging, and body movement is to the level now to where it's at least just as important as actually marching with our feet, if not more important, you know, and uh so there's more things to consider. Back when Mr. Loney was but a wee lad, you know, we did step two drills and we marched eight to five, and we marched up and down the field and played king march trios. And life was so simple back then, you know. Cover down, cover down, cover down, cover down. Just wherever the twirlers turn, we turn the next yard line, you know. Right. Whatever yard line they turned on, we turned on. So life was a lot simpler. Um, so now the and these kids are a lot smarter than we were. You know, they really are. I hate to admit it, but they really are. Um, but you know, then you got to make sure they know the body movement, how to platform run, how to march, and all the things we just talked about. Right. So then the next thing we go into that and not necessarily random things, but overall marching concepts. And uh these will be in that handout. So these are great for the kids to kind of memorize. If you're at a school where sometimes I was at schools where they made you give a six weeks test, right? Written test, and that's okay. I would just use stuff like this for the six weeks test. You know, just I just need you to write down these 10 things for the six weeks test. And it doesn't have to be exactly word for word, but I need to be able to understand from what you put down that you understand the concept.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

You grasp the concept, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Here's the overall marching concepts that that's our goal as an ensemble, and more importantly, as an individual. One is always face front unless otherwise instructed. If no one tells you to face a different direction, just assume that you're gonna face front. Always face front unless otherwise instructed.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Face front till you don't.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yeah, that's right. March straight to the new set with the upper body still facing front, unless otherwise instructed. So if there's no other instructions given and you're going from point A to point B, just assume that my bell, my nose is gonna point to the front sideline, and I'm my upper body's gonna point that way, and my feet are gonna go the direction of the new set point. And if they tell you, no, we're gonna we're gonna go, our horns are gonna point our direction of travel. Oh, we've been otherwise instructed. Okay, stay halfway between two people. There's no otherwise instructed there. Space, right? I guess it could be, you know, if you're staging something in a so you could be right up next to somebody kind of thing. But yeah, stay halfway between two people. And this sounds so bizarre to say, but especially in a younger band, they don't understand what you mean when you say halfway between two people. They don't. They'll be standing elbow to elbow with one person and have three feet before the next person. You'll be be halfway between them. So I'm between these two. So you literally have to take a drum major and another kid, put them there on the field, have everybody watch you and stand exactly halfway between, and then scoot over closer to one and say, Now, am I closer to one person? Yeah, you're closer to Susie. That's correct. Now, what am I doing? I'm scooting over, I'm getting farther away. Now I'm really close to Jeff. And they say, Oh, yeah, yeah, you're really close to Jeff. Now, guess what? Now I'm equidistant. I'm at the same distance from Jeff as I am, you know. And it sounds real simplistic, but it's amazing to me how their their sense of location awareness when you say halfway between, they just think all they heard was between. They didn't really hear the halfway part, you know. So you just kind of tell them what halfway means.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

As a younger teacher, as a younger educator, or even one that's just been not isn't it easier though, at times, instead of thinking in your brain, how could you be this unteachable to say, How could I be a better teacher and do the demonstration? Now do you see what I'm talking about? It's just something that that you figured out over 30 years. Sometimes you just have to do that. Yeah, that's how you teach the concept. Instead of sitting having this raging argument in yourself, how could you not get this? How could you quit having that conversation inside you? Just yelling at you. Right. And say, All right, I'm going to give you a demonstration. And then they go, Oh, yeah, it's funny because all the light bulbs pop on, and they're like, Oh, I get it, I get it. I guess my point is sometimes we have this, it's almost like a battle that we try to have with the students. I'm gonna keep saying it until you figure instead of going, all right, what can I do to make this easier and move forward?

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah, which kind of falls into the definition of insanity.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

You keep saying the same thing, expecting a different result.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, and uh, and we keep saying it louder. The volume increases every time. So if we say it really, really loud, they'll understand it. Oh, it's not a great teaching technique. It's kind of it's kind of like how I speak Spanish. I feel like if I do it slow enough and loud enough that I'll be understood. But I guess my point is something that looks at me like, I have no idea what you're saying, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Cognitively or mentally developmentally, they just don't grasp the concept yet. You're right. They need a better way of for you to teach that to them, and you'll save time in the long run if you'll just get off the podium and go stand in between two people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Sorry, just there's there's my little trail, but yeah, but no, but if there's a a situation too, uh you can give them an example, but also you can quite calmly ask that kid said, uh, you know, there's you're not too close to this person. What do you think halfway actually means? And they'll be honest. They'll go, what do you mean? Okay, that's good, you know, just go through the process. Uh, the next one is take equal size steps in each move, unless otherwise instructed. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Otherwise instructed.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

You know, because there's always those moments where, like, if it's a if it's a some sort of uh curvilinear form that's moving across the field, the first eight steps might be big steps, and the last eight might be small steps. Sometimes that occurs, not very often. So I like to say, just as a general rule, take equal size steps. It's like a I say it's like a pizza. If there's 16 slices of the pizza, I want every slice to be the same size so no one feels cheated. So don't cheat anyone out of their size uh pizza slice. Um, this one, my my guard people will uh hate me for saying this. Sorry, my guard people. Guard defers and adjusts to the winds and drill. I mean, oh, my phone's blowing up right now. Already. What do you say? Leave me alone. But I just say that because it's it's infinitely easier for the guard to defer to the winds because, and I hate now, I'll give them uh some credit. Generally, the guard students are smarter than the winds. Oh, quit it. They they have so much going on and they're so much more graceful, and they're so much more in tune with their choreography that they they can adjust so much easier than my last chair clarinet player can. So if they if the if the winds are backing up and the guards passing through them, don't run over a kid. Just defer them.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

They're also swinging a weapon.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Yeah, yeah. And I've been hit with a pole before. I couldn't hear out of that ear for about a week. You know, it was my fault. I was in the wrong place. It wasn't the kids' fault. Okay. Um, next one is the further backfield you are, the more you should rely on your eyes over ears for timing.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

It's one of my favorite concepts you've taught me.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Yeah. So the further front field you are, you rely on your ears for times, not your eyes.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

So God gave us different senses, you know, and so yeah, you use the proper one at the proper time. And I tell you what, if you've ever really had been an expanded drill before, it's it's a hard one to, it's easy to tell them what to do. But man, it's hard to play when you're like a 16th note away from everyone else that you hear from across the field. You know what I mean? But all that sound, all those tennis balls hit the press box at the same time. But you've got to convince yourself that I'm in a position where I've got to watch the drum major, or I'm in a position where I just have to listen behind me. And it's our listening responsibility. And you, as the director, have to tell them that. If you don't tell them, they're not gonna figure it out on their own. Because it's it's literally impossible to figure out on your own. I mean, if you've never done it before. Now, your seniors have done it before, so they're they're gonna figure it out pretty quick. They're gonna go, I'm behind the back hash. I'm gonna watch me some drum major. I'm gonna watch me some drum major. Yeah. If you're on the front sideline, it's gonna be, I'm gonna pretend like the drum majors aren't alive. They drum majors do not exist at this moment. I'm gonna listen back to the snare line, right? Particularly center snare. So that listening responsibility keeps your band together, even though to their ears, their eyes are telling them one thing, their ears are telling them something else. And depending on the strength of the learning ability and what is their strength of learning, because some people learn by ear, that they can hear something and memorize it. Some people learn by watching. So they're visual in nature. So it fights their natural tendency sometimes if their eyes are telling them one beat, but their ears are telling them the proper beat behind them. Does it make sense?

SPEAKER_02 37:53

So it does make sense.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

So they're they're they're constantly in a battle with their brain because their brain's going, you idiot, you your eyes are your strong point, not your ears. But you've got to tell yourself, I've got to listen to the snare. So you've got to literally have tell them what it's gonna be, then have the section leaders go down the line of their particular portion of the field and reinforce it and tell them our job is not to watch drum majors here. For these 64 counts, we are gonna listen to this percussion behind us. Do not watch the drum majors because I it's I judge every year, and that's where bands fall apart when they just don't know their listening responsibilities.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

It's not really fair, and maybe it's not so much anymore, but used to be this strikes me that your uh sousaphones or your Contras or your low brass is going to be towards the back of the band. And what an obvious thing when they are not using their eyes, and they're I mean, they just honk those out-of-phase notes. Yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

So they create their own pulse pocket, and it's like I'm in that marching band, director's band, director's band, marching band. That title is crazy. Um, but you know, when we march a parade, there's about 400 of us. So the percussion and tubas are right in the middle. Then the front part is band A, the back part is band B. Those are identical bands.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Instrumentally.

unknown 39:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

And it's done by alphabetical order. Isn't that interesting? So, like I play third trumpet in the marching band director's band, uh, because I'm lazy. No, I probably couldn't make the parade if I tried to play first part. But uh, it's a first trumpet, second trumpet, third trumpet, first trumpet, second trumpet, third trumpet. And then behind right in front of me are trombones because I'm since my last name's Lunny, it's L. So I'm in the band behind the uh tubas and the percussion. If my name was Michael Anthony, I would be in the front part of the band. Does it make sense? It's just done alphabetically, and so you don't have any other third trumpet around you except for about four down. So the idea is that we only have to listen to the percussion because both bands are equal. Plus, it's kind of a cool setup. I like Mr. Uh John Waters is our band director. And I'm sure this is commonplace, but I learned a lot about parade marching in this group. Uh the fact that, you know, don't you hate in a parade where all you hear is the clarinets, then all you hear is the flutes, then all you hear is as I pass by. But what you hear is an entire band with percussion tubas in the middle, then another entire band. So, and then all the parts are intermingled. So first trombone, second trombone, third trombone. And so the instruments aren't mixed, but it's it's really a cool concept. But we've got to really make sure we know our listening responsibilities, okay? And uh the next one is how we guide, how we line up. You always guide to the front of the form. That makes sense because God made us with our eyes in front of our body, because we are, I guess, the predator, because yeah, we're the alpha predators. So our eyes are in the front of our face, facing forward. We're not like a fish with our eyes on the side of our head because we're not betas. Okay. So when we're looking forward, that's the only way we can guide, can it? But how many times have you stopped your band? And then the player will turn around and go, y'all are in the wrong spot. It's like, no, they they can't see behind them. You know, you can't yell at the people in front of you to guide to you when their eyes are facing a different direction. So you can only guide to the front of the form. Uh the people in front of you can't see you, but you can see them. Now, if you learn the drill well enough, then pretty soon everyone knows where to go to, and this isn't a problem. But the the fail-safe thing is always guide to the people in front of you. Fit the form, not the drill set.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

That makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

As a judge, we're pretty stupid in that regard because we don't have drill sheets.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

You don't know where that set point's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Yeah, we have no idea. That could be five yards off, and we'd have no idea. We'd say, hey, that's interesting how the clarinet's expanded to a four-step interval here.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

But the form's right.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

But the form's right. There's no pimples. You know, fit the form. Don't be a pimple. Don't stick out of the form. You know, staying halfway between two people and don't be a pimple. If you do those things, then uh then the judges are like, I'm not sure if I agree with this drill here, but it sure looks that looks fine. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

You did it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Yeah, you did it. That's uh um I'll talk to the director later. Okay. Um listen, watch, adjust. Listen, watch, adjust. Listen, watch, adjust. Repeat forever.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Continually. You're always listening, you're always watching, you're always adjusting. Listening, watching, adjusting. Never go dormant, never let your brain go into neutral. Always do that. Always be listening, watching, and adjusting. Now that's within the confines of check, freeze, check, and adjust, but still, yeah, musically sound like the people around you. You know, I call it the herd mentality. Whatever the cattle herd's doing, you do.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

You know, just follow the herd. And the above guidelines, you know, once drill is learned, your director is of course going to make adjustments as part of the cleaning process and maybe even change some set points. Don't be Mr. or Mrs. Set point. So I always tell the band. There's been times that I'll say, like, you know, hey, go ahead and scoot over about four inches. Now I'm in the right place.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

I guarantee you say I would be that kid, Mike.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Yeah. And so I always very sarcastically, which is not the best teaching format, to go, oh, by all means, let's let you stay in that spot. Let me move 200 other people to fit your set point. Because obviously you're the only one that's correct in the whole band. Or you can just move over four inches, like I asked you. Yeah, and the band's like, oh here's a thought. Here's a thought. Maybe you could pull your foot out of your nut and just move over four inches. You know, don't be that person. Okay. Uh, don't be that person. Um, so really random items, things that terminology that just work because sometimes we march on asphalt, sometimes we march on grass, sometimes we march on dirt, sometimes we march on turf. I just call any field surface the deck.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Right. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yeah, just uh, you know, platform on the deck, push against the deck. You know what I mean? Those things that way they just know there's so you're not out constantly the grass, this, the turf, this, the dirt, this, the cement, this, whatever. Um, another term I like that's just a buzz thing, stain your toaster. Okay. When you do a plie or you're doing uh squats, you do a grunt plie, then we need to make sure that your upper body stays upright. We're not leaning forward. Just like a piece of toast. When I put my toast or my bagel in the toaster and I push the deal down, it doesn't go at a 45 degree angle. It goes straight down. When it's cooked, it pops straight up. It doesn't go a 45 degree angle inside the toaster. Okay, so stain your toaster. I like this one. If some of they're really having a hard time doing the physical training or whatever, I'll say feels good, and the band responds back with so good. That just brings a little mental reset. Yeah, it's like, you know, they're doing like a plank or something.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Feed. So good. Feels good, so good.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Okay. And for some affirmation for the band, uh, a one round of applause is one clap. Two rounds of applause is two claps, and so forth. So it you give affirmation to something. The clarinets did that absolutely perfect in the wood win feature. Give them three rounds of applause, and we're done. Right. You know, everyone participates, everyone gets to do something. It's uh, it's really kind of a cool moment because you're given affirmation, but you're not wasting a lot of time. You know, it's like y'all are good, we'll give you three rounds of applause. Uh get after it. Okay. Um, and then, you know, call and stand by, feet of 45, whatever the director wants, lineup hands, bodies. However, you do all this stuff, um, is just, you know, it just has to be repeated over and over, and it has to be written down. Um, I really do believe it has to be written down. It can't be like Indian lore or uh Native American lore, excuse me. Native American lore, where it's just passed down from generation to generation because uh we're not as smart as those people. Um, so we'll change it. Have you ever played that game where you whisper something in someone's ear? Yeah, we call it gossiping around the room, and the last person says it out loud, and it's not even close to the I think we're in agreement on that. It has to be written down somehow. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Okay. If you subscribe to Sir Shibakak says, write the vision down so it's plain that people have to have something to reference until they get it. Yes. It's just like uh I don't remember if this is sad. I think it was last episode you talked about the definition of discipline. That was long. Yeah, where you said discipline is this and this and this, and and blah, blah, blah. It would take me a second to A learn the words and then B grasp the meaning of those words. Yes. When it's written down, I can go, okay, I get it, because my brain can see it.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

And it's on big posters in the band hall. It's on the door coming into the band hall, the door leaving the band hall. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Write the vision down so it's made plain for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

I mean, even in their boys' bathroom, there's that sign's right above the door. So you go take you go take a pee-pee, you got to read the discipline sign. You know, you're like, discipline, you know, so it it's uh it's good brainwashing.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Right. The point is written down, you learn it. Yes, and you reference it and you have it for posterity, and there's no chance that by the time it gets around the circle to the freshman, that it's completely different than what the original intent was.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

So that's correct. Good thought. Good thought.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Okay, and the next one is that this is really simplistic. And I learned this from Austin Snow, who's the Marine that runs the uh Paris North Lamar stadium. Um he's a Marine, and his both his parents were Marine, are Marines because there's no such thing as a retired Marine. There's no such thing as I used to be a Marine. They're a Marine till the day they die. Um but he he taught me this and it works great. He calls it school circle. School circle is when I face the band and I hold my arms on, I go, I need to talk to you guys, school circle. And so the band knows that no one's gonna go past my arms. No one's gonna go behind me. They all have to be in front of me. And then they all go to standby and they point their noses at me. Because every single time you talk to a group, if you don't delineate that, there's gonna be about 15, 20 kids who'll get behind you, won't they? Right. Because they're not nefarious. They're just like, well, I can hear them better if I get closer, go behind them.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

But then it always turns into you know, poking at each other and you know, and I also think the nose at the speaker is important because I was the kid that would start counting clouds or notice that there was a flock of birds flying over in a V formation. How cool is that?

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Yeah, or start messing with your horn and you know, taking the first valve out, and you know, you know, not trying to be disrespectful, but just being a kid, absent. Yeah. Yeah. Being a kid, we're just we're just being us. Faculty meetings. I by the time they get to a point, I can write down I've already taken my pen apart and lost a little spring, so I don't know. So it's like it's like uh the principal say something? Uh, who cares? He'll put it in an email, you know, and you we're all the same. Okay. So school circle, it sounds so simplistic because it is. Okay. Um, another thing is, and this is a big deal to me, the 390s. The arm, the when the horns are up in up position for belfront brass, the arm is 90 degrees underneath the arm to the torso. That's a 90 degree angle. Okay. The elbow, the lower arm to the upper arm, that's a 90 degree angle. That's the third nine or second 90. The third 90 is when my hands are up in front of me holding my trumpet, that it's a 90 degree from my two forearms to my trumpet to my other elbow. So it's 90 degrees, 90 degrees, 90 degrees. As long as they do that, it's gonna look really uniform. And I know bands that really kind of get into drum cores, especially, they'll have the elbows up higher and higher and higher. And because it looks really strong and powerful, but only do what your band can do, please. You know, so uh they're they don't have eight hours a day to rehearse like the Phantom Regiment. Okay. Um, so and they and also, you know, those top-tier drum cores that we kind of idolize. Most of those kids are college kids.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Right. You're talking more mature bodies, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:22

21-year-old athletes out there. That's a little different than when you got a seventh grader in, you know, West Texas, you know, marching. They don't have that physical ability. Um, no matter how bad you want it, they're they're gonna they're gonna still be little kids. Okay. Um, then we talk about with the kids the three zones, and you teach them this vocabulary to focus their attention. Zone one is the hips to the feet, or the feet to the hips, okay? From the hips down. That's zone one. Zone two is the hips to the shoulders, okay? And zone three is from the shoulder to the top of their head. Okay. Okay. So you can talk about a band and say our posture looks really good except for zone three. And if they know that, if they know the vocabulary, they can clean quicker, Derek. Then that they instead of saying our noses aren't pointing all the same way, and our chins aren't raised exactly the same level. Zone three does not look uniform. Fix it. And then they think back to their marching fund duh mentals and they go, Oh, chin is up 20 degrees, my nose is in the air. Um, okay, I got it. I got it. My nose points were at press box level. Okay, nose is 45 degrees, straight towards the front sideline. And so they can fix that if you take the time to teach them the vocabulary.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Right. Otherwise it saves you time teaching later on, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Yeah, we're stuck. It's almost like teaching music and having to tell them the fingerings for every note every single time. You know, but we do that in marching band, don't we? Right. Instead of just teaching them that this is this, we we go that direction. And just to kind of, you know, if you don't have time for fundamentals, big important point here. If you don't have time for all these fundamentals, then make your music and drill easier so you do have time for them.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Right. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Clean shows are exciting shows. I have uh this is gonna be a podcast eventually, but I've had directors that'll say, uh, this is I find this interesting. They'll go, Well, Mike, I really want an exciting show. And I'll say, Define exciting. And they can't.

SPEAKER_02 53:39

Right. What makes exciting to you?

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Yeah. And so it's like, define exciting, and they'll think about it. Well, I don't know. Fast, loud, I don't I would dare say that exciting, all that stuff, you know, louder, screaming trumpets, whatever, that's that's fun. That's fun. And it is exciting in its own way, but it can never take the place of uniformity of articulation and tone quality and cleanliness of drill and visual production. It can never take the place of that. Otherwise, it's it's just like uh meaningless loudness, you know, that has no purpose whatsoever. Now, if you get all the other stuff figured out fundamentally, then yeah, let trumpets and take that up an octave, let's get really big here, let's do this, let's do, you know, then it is exciting, you know, but most excitement is generated by uniformity and cleanliness. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Right. Excitement might be executing your kids executing the show to the best of their ability for the level you put out in front of them.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

And even those top-tier drum cores, the what they're doing as far as volume and uh not necessarily precision, but volume and uh just the show design, we see that as exciting, but when you really boil it down, it's because they do it exactly the same.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Clean and uniform is probably the most exciting thing you can see. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

And then if you're gonna then they can kind of put it put it on steroids a little bit. You know what I mean? But if you don't get the first part taken care of, the second part is just like you know, shaking.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

We've had this, see, now you got me this time, Mike. We've had this conversation before. There's a confidence, there's body language, there's carriage that that communicates to the audience, and by definition, the judges, the judges, the adjudicators, that man, this band knows what they're doing. This band is executing well. This is cool. Yeah, and you don't really stop to go, but maybe it's not the hardest thing I've ever heard, it's not the fastest, it's not the loudest, but it's confident, it's clean. They are putting on the show. Yes. I think that's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

And then it makes it to the level of where they're they have time to take care of their fundamentals because the drill and music's easy enough for them to execute the fundamentals. So now they're performing the show as a box five band.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

See, that's where I was going next. Yeah, you'll never hit box five with your definition of exciting, higher, faster, louder. Yeah, you'll never make box five.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Uh everyone has this person in their family at family reunions, that ant that talks loud. And if you try to talk louder than that ant, she talks louder. That's what you become. That's not a box five ant. Right. That's a box one, you know. So it's uh don't be I guess it's blunt, but if you just play louder, higher, faster, it's just obnoxious.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Yeah, but your kids are drowning trying to do something because they want to make you happy, but you put an unrealistic expect box five expectation in front of them. Give them what they can box five. Yeah, maybe that's not proper English, but see, you just made me think about that.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

But if 100 if they're doing 100% of their time is in their cerebral cortex in the front of their brain, trying to remember details, they will fail.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Because we can't remember every we can't remember every detail of music and drill. It has to be box five. You're performing it because it's a habit. Perform the habit.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

They can't embody detail the emotions, they can't create magic because they're thinking all the time. Yeah. Sorry, you got me rolling there.

unknown 57:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:36

That's all I got. Who would imagine procedures would involve emotions. Emotions.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Yeah, we're not uh well, what's the oh my gosh, the office Dunder Milfin or whatever the it's not those kind of procedures.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

But you know, it's a great concept, and we kind of hinted at the beginning. Sometimes we allow words to create a preconceived notion. Procedures are not bad things. Procedures are not uh maybe I put it this way, and there's probably a you've probably got a Sabanism or an atomic habit quote that would make this uh more palatable, but you have to do the boring before you can execute the exciting. You have to have the confidence, the platform, the ground level, the floor work. You have to do the dirty work every day the same way before you can go, I'm confident enough and comfortable enough to show off now.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Yeah, you have to kind of have the uh you have to be able to accept and deal with the stress of repetition and the pain of feedback. And I also think once you do those two things, you can be successful at anything in this world.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

When you kept saying unless I tell you otherwise. The point being, this is the procedure. When you're comfortable with the procedure, I might tell you to cheat. I might tell you to do this one time, I might tell you to do that one time. But that's part of the procedure. But we have to get to that part of the procedure.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

That's right. Cool. And so everyone's more comfortable. And I tell you what, if you I can spot it in a second when I go clinic a band that's a larger band, and let's say like four or five staff members, I can tell when they've never communicated. Speaker, things different names. Um, it's uh, you know, there are different sections of the bands are vocalizing different ways. Everyone just looks it's not bad, it just looks a little confused, and there's always that sense of fuzziness. It's like a 1980s TV screen. You know, there's just enough fuzz that if you can tell it's a football game on an 80s TV screen on old tube TV, but you can't see it like 4K high definition, you know. So it's like, well, this is good, but you know, if we would just kind of communicate and have some procedures here, you know, and everyone's doing everything different, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

How many times I've seen old footage and went, we used to think this was good. Yeah, we did. This was the best we could get. Yeah, good awesome. Well, all right, brother. I hope that procedurally you have a good week. I will go out there and spread the gospel. That's right. Evangelize a great evangelist. So um appreciate you, my friend. And as always, if anybody has a question or if you want to um maybe dig in a little deeper to something you heard Mike talking about today, we've got the the email address out there. Most of you know his phone number, uh, but it's on the screen even. Ask Mike on every bathroom wall between here in El Paso for a good time.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

For marching advice, call Mike Lenny 325.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

Man, what kind of society is that? If that's on the bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Well, you know, it's in West Texas, we love band and football.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

So have a great week, friend.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

All right, we'll see you later.