Ep 58 | From Low Test Score to Dream MBA Program

What does it take to gain admission to your target MBA program? What if you have a below-average GMAT or GRE score... can you still earn a spot at a top business school? MBA applicant Austin Sandoval did just that. In the latest episode of the mbaMission podcast, Austin talks with Harold Simanksy and Jeremy Shinewald about his MBA application journey, and how he used onTrack by mbaMission -- our on-demand MBA admissions course -- to craft his business school applications. With the help of onTrack, Austin overcame a 299 GRE score and was offered admission to multiple top-15 MBA programs, along with over $500,000 in scholarships.

01:34 Austin's story 
14:19 Professional progress
16:53 Deciding to pursue an MBA
22:53 Beginning the application process
23:30 Struggling with the GRE 
30:32 Balancing work, life, and applications
33:31 Narrowing down target school list  
39:50 Make a decision and weighing scholarships 
44:38 Post-MBA career goals 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Austin's story
• 14:19 Professional progress
• 16:53 Deciding to pursue an MBA
• 22:53 Beginning the application process
• 23:30 Struggling with the GRE
• 30:32 Balancing work, life, and applications
• 33:31 Narrowing down target school list
• 39:50 Make a decision and weighing scholarships
• 44:38 Post-MBA career goals

Transcript

you think of Harvard Stanford Wharton and then you think of M7 in my mind I was like I need to go M7 frequently we'll have clients who truly do overindex on things like test or GPA i knew that I needed supposedly a strong test score to get into some of these premier schools that I wanted to go to my best score after 410 was a 299 GRE the personal story the authentic side of your life is really valuable in the application process
 so I showed them all the offers I had it was over $500,000 in scholarship and I want to come here like this is my top choice and and if you can just help match it you know or even just get me closer like I will

come what does it take to gain admission to your target school even if you have a challenging GRE well today we're going to find out what it takes and what resulted in this applicant getting into his top four schools with over $400,000 in aggregate scholarships today I'm thrilled to welcome Austin Sandival an OnTrack client who as you'll hear I connected with through a free consultation and felt compelled to find a way to support personally and as a firm austin leveraged our on demand admissions course on track by NBA mission to successfully navigate his MBA applications austin was admitted to Dartmouth Tuck UVA Darden Cornell Johnson and Duke Fugqua all with generous scholarships let's learn about his applicant journey today austin thank you very much for joining us today i understand you flew in from San Diego just to share with us some of your application journey why don't we start though with your own background just give us sort of the once over about who you are where you came from why business school make it made the most sense for you
 yeah so I'm a first generation underrepresented minority
 uh born and raised about an hour outside of Los Angeles okay
 um grew up single mother had me at the age of 17
 grew up with my grandparents uh grandpa grandma they only spoke uh Spanish
 um so grew up essentially Spanish being kind of the the first language of my life um my mother at the time had um a boyfriend who's the stepfather in my life
 um an alcoholic for you can say and so kind of just growing up I felt like education for me was an avenue I hope to to change things
 um I didn't really know how didn't really know why but I just felt you know growing up in in my under in my community um
 you know not many people left to go to school it wasn't a big thing and if you did you went to the nearest community college next like down the street yep
 or you just started working full-time um to support your family for a lack of better words
 and so I was like I'm just going to do good in school
 um again don't really know why and and see where I get in
 and so I'm super fortunate and blessed to have gone to San Diego State University
 um went there got my undergrad bachelor's in business uh studied information systems and honestly had the time of my life there four years studying technology business um and and really it was at that point where I was like "Wow like this is life-changing to me." I
 I want to ask you something you said you kind of said education you knew you wanted to get educated you knew you wanted you know advanced education but you sort of didn't know how or what it was did you have some mentors along the way like how did you start to see this path for yourself and and and maybe you can give us a bit of a sketch also of your like high school surroundings like how many people around you went on to college for your class
 yeah so I I wouldn't say I really had any mentors kind of growing up or really anyone that I was like wow like that person you know who's my friend or a family member that kind of um has gone and done you know incredible things for lack of better words um so that you know again I kind of just blindly went to school um or blindly did good in school for lack of better words and you know I was one of two from my whole high school to go to San Diego State University and the other student was a student athlete
 so he was there how many students from your school
 uh my graduating class was 500 and so you know I think 2,000 total maybe like 1500
 um you know and even if they were pushing us to go to school it was like they weren't pushing us to go to Harvard they weren't pushing us to go to Stanford it was like we got application waiverss to go to the Cal States in California and the UC schools
 um and so essentially out of my nine schools I applied to four were Cal States and the other four were UC's and then I applied to one out of state school just for the heck of it um it was Arizona State i didn't go um got accepted to all all eight all nine schools I went to um and it really came down to money you know my family and I we were so below the poverty line that I had Pell grants and federal grants that covered my school so for me I was like I'm not going out of state definitely can't afford it and you know I'm thankful that the government gave me money for like free and you know I came out debtree and I'm super appreciative and my family helped pay rent a little bit uh my freshman year in the dorms cuz that was very expensive um I worked a part-time job for the next three years on campus i was a supervisor uh working concerts and basketball games and so that was awesome because I was getting paid to watch like Demi Lovado like I don't know it was it was awesome demi Lovato who is that is that what the young is that what the young kids are listening to now
 kevin Hart was there i mean it was on campus arena so it was a great part-time job
 that's great exciting news you can now access OnTrack by MBA Mission for free take our twominute onboarding questionnaire to personalize your learning path choose the free plan and you'll have unlimited access to our complete modules on MBA application timelines standardized testing your professional background community leadership school selection and more you'll also get access to select lessons from our brainstorming personal statement essay resume and recommendation modules it's a great introduction to the OnTrack platform and will help you jumpstart the MBA application process get started today at ontrack.mmbba mission.com obviously amazing were you were you able with that that you know pay working your way through school were you able to focus on on your studies the way you wanted
 yeah I mean of course in a perfect world right like if I could just devote my time to to grades that would have been obviously ideal but you know I had to I had to balance that i had to work hard and and really go above and beyond and prioritize income yeah
 um I was also really involved on campus i ended up being one of the founders of a fraternity on campus my freshman year and that turned into becoming president my junior year and so I just remember being president of my fraternity junior year which is insane if you can imagine 150 people you know $200,000 budget so you started from scratch to do that
 yeah it was me and you know a big group of us kind of came together it was the first semester that the fraternity was on campus um and then we had no reputation we had no name to us it was like we were new there was no leadership there was no kind of model to follow it was up to us to establish this organization and I personally wanted to be different um I remember you know fraternities have such a negative stigma they can if you're joining a social fraternity
 san Diego State's a big party school so if you assume Greek life at San Diego State right like you're going to party and and I was there at San Diego State to get a career that was my priority that was my goal i felt my family counting on me i felt my future family that you know I'm going to have one day counting on me and so I just felt this like no matter how much fun I have no matter what happens at the end of the day if I don't come out with a career like I blew it like that was always on my mind and so no matter how much I got involved or what I did my grades and just interviewing and internships and I didn't know how but
 I I knew I needed to do that
 so Austin after San Diego State what was the next move
 yeah so I started my career at EY um in Los Angeles and so I was a technology risk consultant um and I always had a vision to work abroad um I wasn't able to go abroad during school cuz I was involved on campus and couldn't afford it and I was like how do I get abroad and so 9 months into my career with EY in Los Angeles I landed an opportunity to go to Norway where I was in Oslo Norway with the firm and that was life-changing i
 How long were you there for
 um almost two years
 oh wow two years in Oslo wow
 yeah wow
 that's more than most Norwegians
 yeah well it was funny when I you know when that ended and then I joined PWC I spent mo at the time out of the three years out of college two years were essentially abroad and so I had more experience internationally than I did in America so it was I was like "This is interesting." I
 I got to I got to jump in and and say that so Austin signed up for free consultation with me and uh and um and he shared a lot of his of his journey and his life story and um at the end I ended up basically saying to him like I'd like to just effectively give you on track and I'd like to help you a little bit along the way um because I was so deeply moved by his story and
 in that writing you shared what to me what is was one of the most touching and memorable stories that I've heard in a long time maybe it was just the the the spec specificity and the sincerity of it but if you feel comfortable would you share the story of the text you got yeah when you were in when you were in in Norway because I think it it will give people a a real sense of who you are and where you've come from and and also I think give people a sense of like what's possible
 yeah so I was in Norway it was February and at the time I'd only been there for about four or five months and it it's in the winter it's pitch black in Norway like there is literally no sunlight like it is you know that's the winter in Norway and I come from California Southern California it's bright
 um
 and you know I don't know what I'm doing it's a whole other country a whole other language like you know everyone's speaking Norwegian i don't speak any Norwegian i speak Spanish not Norwegian and you know I was just laying in bed and you know the honeymoon phase of my time in Norway was ending for lack of better words in that like everything up to this point was just awesome i was like it didn't matter what I was doing i was like "This is awesome." like I'm in Norway but at a certain point you know the honeymoon phase ends and you know it's like okay well now I'm
 you're going to work
 you're going to work correct day in you know clocking in clocking out and it was um it was February and you know at the time we were maybe a month away from CO so at the time CO's happening in China and I don't the world doesn't really know what's happening so there's a little uncertainty and uh my mom texted me and she basically you know asked me to send her $10 um to let my sister go out to eat for lack of better words and that rocked me cuz you know although my family you know I love them so much and I love my mom and I love my grandma and all of them they've taken care of me they've given their life for me um you know when you're in Norway and you're by yourself and you're doing everything you can to to set yourself up for success you know $10 was it just blew my mind i was like you know and these are my sisters i absolutely love them and um so of course you know I send $10 like here's a hundred you know but um that was such a reminder of you know what I'm doing like why I work so hard and why I never quit and why I always go after everything that I you know hope for um and and I'm so blessed for them and um that was a very kind of like wow like this is this is real you know I'm on the other side of the planet and right just a different level of responsibility than most people have at that point in their lives and you know just
 you know there are a lot of high-flying MBAs walking into these programs and and and you you know we all you know the everything the playing field gets leveled once you once you get there basically but um but you know you were you were busy
 I I think we talked about this often actually that like the personal story the authentic side of your life is really valuable in the application process and and that there are lots of different ways to show your values it's not just I think sometimes people mistake um community service which you know is it can be important as but you know showing leadership showing drive but like there are other ways to show that and show show you know show your value show your care for others show your altruistic side and that one I mean just I the way you wrote it just absolutely floored me and I was like whoa I got to I got to talk to this guy and I remember saying to you uh when we talked on the phone I said you that you could start nancing with this story I was like this is I mean this was it maybe I because I have two daughters I don't know whatever it might be I was absolutely floored by the just your extremely straightforward writing of of your of your own story I mean you wrote I will say this you wrote the single longest uh like
 I can explain why you'll laugh so in my mind I'm like free consultation 30 minutes with the guy I got 30 minutes to get all my questions answered here so let me feed him
 everything I can think of
 and just you know I got 30 minutes and I
 it's actually very wise
 yeah i was like you know I got 30 minutes to capture this opportunity and I remember like the first thing you were like you gave me a lot i was like my bad
 but you know what like um I mean a with a lot of people that would not have been that valuable i think I think your everything was I mean it was it was riveting um b if I may toot my own horn I read all of it okay i read I read all of it beforehand um you know it allowed us to to to get to know each other and and for us to provide everything we could to to help you along along your way and and um you know it was it was really our honor i mean I I really and I enjoyed when you would check in with me along the way and say like "Oh I just watched this module or or you know this was really helpful you gave me some feedback that was helpful for us." And every once in a while you'd ask me for a little like advice along the in your and I was h we're friends i was really happy to happy to do that for you and with you and to and to vicariously experience your success um but back to it like so but so so when you maybe maybe we skipped over this too a little bit but like how did you get from
 how did you how did you determine what you wanted to do after San Diego State like how did you find that on-ramp how did you
 like how does one get from you know I I want to I I know I need education to like I'm going to be I'm going to be at EY like I'm going to do this
 one of my fraternity brothers was interning for EY uh at the time my junior year and that was the first time I'd ever heard of Big Four i was like
 "What is this?" you know and he's like "Massive organizations there's four of them you know amazing brand amazing internships like you should do it." I was like "All right like sign me up." And so um I applied to only EY and PWC funny enough my junior year and just going through the motions of the the interview process i didn't get I didn't get any offers so I got rejected from PWC in the first round made it to the final round of EI and got rejected and that was a wakeup call of just the level of caliber and intentionality that those firms required um for someone interviewing and I didn't know what I was doing i was like I'm just going to throw my my resume in and right rightfully so
 so when I got rejected um
 I was like I'm for the whole next year my senior year I'm going to do everything that I can to come back stronger
 and you know I got involved that's when the presidency came in you know I asked to get promoted to the supervisor role um I was doing Bible studies on on campus at the time and just really committed to coming back my senior year and interviewing for all four of the big four at the time because you know give me another opportunity and I I'll take it and so was extremely fortunate i landed offers from all four of the big fours and really the tables had turned cuz then then I was like where do I go like I can go to EY Deote PBC KPMG like in any city and it was like whoa when studying um information systems you know they had like an IT audit like technology risk practice essentially which blends business it blends it which is what information systems does but not only that I knew the firms were so massive that I would meet someone inside um doing something different or doing something maybe cooler than that one opportunity cuz San Diego State's a non-target school for like the real management consulting roles like it's usually audit tax and my kind of technology risk practice but they're not coming to San Diego State to recruit like the other more exciting higher paying advisory roles like I had to essentially get my way in there as well um so that's kind of how I put my foot in the door and was like "All right like let's ride."
 Okay so you started off at EY then you're at PWC now and at what point did did you start thinking about business school since uh you know five months into well I started thinking about it in college at San Diego State I was like I really want to do this I've always had these aspirations didn't know how when or why but I did
 um at EY in the first eight months even 6 months in LA I was like I want to go to business school um you know Iworked on LinkedIn a little bit I said if anyone has an MBA degree like I would love to talk to you just hear like why you did it what happened and you know funny enough the CEO of Igloo um was a fraternity brother of mine at another school you know and he like messaged me he's like "Here's my number like talk to me." I was like "Eig the cooler."
 The cooler company
 yeah okay
 and so um I'm talking to him and you know I'm saying like "Hey I'm considering NBA now like I'm not really ecstatic about my current role at the firm blah blah blah blah." And he's like "Look like you're at EY like there is amazing opportunities there so like I would encourage you to try other things first before you know you go to business school um and and that really you know resonated with me cuz I was like "Yeah like I guess you're right like there's so much more to do here." That's how I ended up exploring opportunities overseas which the way I got there was extremely unconventional usually only managers and above um at the firm get opportunities to go overseas to do a real exchange there's opportunities all the not all the time but if you get on a client which is random that has I don't know branches or a division in this you know another country they'll send you for a week or whatnot but to really like say hey I want to go to this country for 6 months or 12 months like that's really hard and so given that I basically cold called and emailed a copy and paste email to the EY HR of like 15 countries Spain like Barcelona like Madrid just Oslo Peru see who responds
 yes
 um I think four responded maybe and three of them were like "Hey do you have citizenship?" And I was like "I don't." They were like "They're asking if you had citizenship of that particular country."
 Correct correct to to get me to work there um and they were like I was like "No I don't." They're like "Well sorry like it's not going to work out."
 Um Oslo was like "This is interesting like here's this kid from LA
 who has this experience that we ironically need you know let's talk more." And you know that turned into one interviews two interviews etc and basically it gets crazy so um they gave me a 6-month opportunity they're like "Can you go ask leadership at EY to let you take a leave of absence for 6 months we'll bring you overseas we'll give you a visa." Wow
 um you know let's do it i go ask EY you know EY United States like "Hey I just landed this opportunity in Norway like I want to go do this and I want to come back to LA." They said "Sorry like we don't allow that like that's not that we don't do that i was like well that's not fun so so now what i'm stuck at this crossroads where not really too happy right now in UI in LA i have an opportunity of a lifetime to go to this firm for 6 months to a whole country I've never been to you know I don't speak the language i don't even know what to expect and it's only 6 months right like I would have to quit my role in America
 and not have a guaranteed role and I'd worked so hard for this role and it only been six seven months out of college and so that was a decision that thankfully I had a mentor at the time a senior manager um her name is Myra and she's a partner now at the firm and she you know I talked to her and I was like "Hey like I need to ask you a real question like
 what should I do here
 what should I do here?" And she was like "Austin you better take this." She was like "I don't care if you think you won't get a job when you come back." She's like "I'm going to do everything I can
 to help you to come back here and if for some reason they say no I will talk to everyone in my network." But she was like "Don't even worry cuz you're not going to need it." But she was like "Just go."
 So essentially you had to leave your job at EY America
 quit
 go to EY uh Oslo and with And it's unclear whether or not you could go back yep
 and you spent two years there
 yeah so two months into the role in Oslo they gave me a full-time permanent offer unbelievable
 so I was like "This is great
 this is working out like I could have been there forever."
 So what leads you to what leads you to leave the the the Oslo office and by the way I'm going I'm going to Osceland this summer so I'll have to get your selection of beautiful places to go and see
 yeah I will gladly
 okay
 I know it's awesome um um
 so I wanted to essent I really wanted to make a career switch i was doing kind of technology risk which is IT audit for lack of better words and I wanted to get into advisory the advisory business and so um that was how the opportunity at PWC came about was I also was getting homesick you know I I'd been there through co like it was truly very hard all co and so you know once we went remote I'm stuck in Oslo remote not like my colleagues and friends who were my only friends aren't going to the office anymore more
 they've all moved back with their families in Norway
 yes
 so I'm kind of stuck in this apartment and I'm like what am I doing here um so unfortunately that
 made it hard to continue staying uh but it was also a blessing at the same time because in Oslo the entire country shuts down for summer break so I got paid for all of Jul July and almost August to go backpack with all my colleagues across the country like during coing
 paid like it's such a healthy thing and I was like this is unbelievable
 yeah so you had to stay through that obviously
 stayed through that and then ended up at PWC became a cyber security senior associate which is part of their advisory practice and now I'm a cyber security manager in their advisory practice and so along the way how did you know it was the right time for you to apply to an MBA and and uh and tell us a little bit more of that journey you know your maybe your a little bit of your testing uh battles and the like
 yeah so um kind of you know I I I was hitting the point where I'd been in my career for 5 years 6 years and I just knew that sweet spot right is I don't know not that there is three to eight maybe type of thing um so once I was hitting 5 years I was like I really want to go for this now like I'm settled the time is right you know I'm I'm getting ready to push for manager at the firm and it just felt right to go do that and so I started studying for the GRE um first I started for the GMAT and took one practice test and was like that's enough of that yeah
 um then was studying for the GRE and my SATs in high school were bad like I was like this is tough i've always dreaded standardized tests like they are not my friend
 sure um I ended up taking it four times with my best score after four attempts was a 299 GRE so like
 you know and that was with like a tutor at one point that was with like a self kind of guided training and that was
 like I really was trying here like I wasn't just like showing up and like with seeing like
 I knew that I needed supposedly a strong test score to get into some of these premier schools that I wanted to go to
 yeah and
 Austin what was your GPA
 349
 okay 349 very solid very good GPA
 i got to say Austin I remember I remember reading your profile i remember you telling me that that that you were struggling with the test and I remember saying to you
 I think you're the type of amazing applicant where someone can overlook this like I it's not it's not that I it's not that I I think that everyone with a score gets in lots of people won't but like if someone is going to if they're going to say if they're going to look at someone's profile and say here's uh an incredibly capable person who you know can manage the coursework and add a lot to our class it's going to be someone like you and uh I mean we'll do the reveal later on on schools but uh um you know I I I really felt like if someone gave your application you're such a sincere person if someone gave your application a read they would see such a capable and determined person so that test in the end was maybe it's the best you could do on a test in that moment but it also was they set it aside which is amazing
 and it's funny thank you so much for that it's it's funny cuz I was in I don't know if you've heard of MLT management leadership for tomorrow um so I got accepted into that and unfortunately andor fortunately you need a on the GRE you need a 300 or higher to remain in the program so I got I got in on kind of this like
 like "Hey you're in right now however if you don't get a 300 by this date like we're going to have to defer you."
 Um and at the time I had like a 296 297 297 and I was like I got one more attempt i took the test I think like 2 days before there i think they gave me May 1st as the deadline um and it got a 299 and so I kind of essentially got booted out of ML even thought that be an inspiring story they said "We'll make an exception for you Austin."
 But that fired me up cuz I was like
 I'm still going to go for it like they basically said keep studying and try again next year we think you'll be a more competitive applicant with 300 and I was like
 no like I'm going for it like that ship has sailed like I'm going in with the 299
 right no that makes sense and listen frequently we'll have clients who truly do overindex on things like test or GPA where they cannot see past that and what we keep on telling folks is
 we've seen it all honestly I've seen it all at the same point being realistic who gets in with a 299 well honestly someone who looks like Austin in terms of the things you've achieved across many many different dimensions and I was telling myself I'm going for it but like I don't know like I'll go for anything so when I heard you say it I was like "All right like maybe you know this guy's on to something like Right he knows the reality is he knows." Yeah that's right i think I said "I'm not a I'm not a betting man."
 Uh you know but and I wouldn't bet my house on it but I think I'd bet on you on this one like I there was just there was so much power in the like in that very lengthy statement that you sent me there was someone anyone reading that could believe in you i mean it was really something so So you Okay so that so that that you you sort of psychologically set the test aside and you said I'm just going to go and do this
 yep
 how many schools did you apply to i know what your outcomes were but how many schools did you apply to
 six I think five or six five or six
 um
 Okay
 i'm sort of dying here can we get to outcomes we get to outcomes but uh but I think there there are a few steps along the way before outcomes right you interviewed and you had a crazy story about interviewing at one of the schools right
 tuck
 a tuck yeah and you were like way laid tell tell us a little bit
 yeah so I was um at the time I had a client in Atlanta and so I was supposed to be and I was I was on site in Atlanta and you know for anyone watching this when you apply to do on-site interviews they really only give you like a couple days of the month like this isn't like a Saturday that's convenient to be there it's it's like a Tuesday or Thursday um and you know I'm a consultant i'm on site like how do I get to New Hampshire on a Tuesday without taking from San Diego without taking all this time off right um but I was like I'm going to find a way and I'm so thankful that my team was super fortunate like they were like go do this like so I left Atlanta U Monday night i caught a Monday night flight i go to Boston um I'm you know and then I'm taking the Dartmouth Coach from there from from the airport to Dartmouth supposed to get into Dartmouth at 10:00 and then my hotel was like supposedly down the street which was like 3 4 miles my interview was at 8:00 a.m and you know I'll be back on the road back in Atlanta Tuesday night and I'm on the bus to you know Dartmouth it's I don't know i'm like
 so it's 10 p.m or whatever time it is
 yeah so I'm still It's 800 PM but I'm gonna be there by 10 okay
 and I'm like calling Ubers and and no one's
 you know picking me up and I'm like this is
 you know there's only one Uber in all handover New Hampshire
 love to take jobs in handover it's funny like as a consultant it's so natural to be like I'm just going to show up and call an Uber like you know all expensive whatever
 so I didn't think twice of it um and I'm like getting closer and closer to get to Dartmouth and I'm like there is no one to pick me up like this is and my hotel is like 3 miles 4 miles away like
 I'm what do I do right
 um so I pull up to the this bus station
 i've accepted my fate
 and I'm like here we go like let's just start walking so I start hitchhiking down the road
 at 10 10:30 in November and I'm like what am I doing it's pitch black down these roads
 and I don't mean that this is from someone who spent two years in Oslo and [ __ ] so like yeah um it's you know 10 maybe 30 minutes of walking a random car pulls over and and they're like hey like
 you need a ride i was like what do I do like do I do this and I was like ah let's do it and I like look in the car like keep my distance and I'm like ah he looks really nice get in the car and you know it's this kid and um his name's Joseph and he's like I'm coming home from Bible study and I saw you and you know just wanted to give you like what are you doing and I'm like well I'm from San Diego I'm interviewing at you know tuck tomorrow morning at 8 and didn't realize there's no Uber and he's like
 well how are you getting to your interview tomorrow morning and I was like well now that I know there's no like I don't know right I'm gonna start walking 6 yeah and he's like I'll pick you up and I'm like really so he's like yeah like what time do you want I mean you know at your hotel like I'll grab you and he takes me and you know
 right
 I had a story for the interview and
 they sure did yikes
 but I'm blown away cuz I'm like this is I can't believe this like this is crazy
 right right right right and so Okay so you're I mean I wrote that's that's I remember you emailed me about that that's really quite quite something um and so okay so you're tests are done you're applying to to your subset of schools uh you're going to campus to to to interview M um you know like it's obviously hugely timeconuming how are you balancing
 you know how you balancing
 Yeah
 work and family you're still a good older brother to your to your your your younger sisters
 like where are you finding the time you know to to live your life
 yeah i mean thankfully I feel like my whole life I've had a balance you know competing priorities just from a young age always if it if it wasn't literally work it was my involvement on campus or being around my family or being around my friends or serving you know at the church like whatever it was so this you know wasn't nothing new you know I was working as a consultant pushing for a promotion so I was going above and beyond but you know I just I don't know i'm grateful to say that I'm able to balance kind of things like that um but I worked on it at night essentially worked on my applications worked on my application on the plane um on weekends like that was my life like it it really was something that I balanced very well and you know I didn't let it consume me i didn't let it overwhelm me but I I really also didn't just like not try i was intentional about it without a doubt and I started early
 that was exactly my next question is how long does this process last for you how long did it play out
 yeah I started taking the tests intentionally like almost a year and a half out so just and that took months that like 5 6 months I would say but then I was like I'm going to go crazy if I keep trying like we're drawing the line here but then I started working on it or not working but thinking about like my life brainstorming ideas in like April like I don't know March April and the prompts don't come out you know until May or something or maybe June but and I was also applying through the consortium so the deadline for all my schools was October 15th so I wasn't really pushing for like a September or August date round one round one for them is um October 15th and all my schools were consortium schools even just from a financial standpoint like it's so affordable you can just apply to all these schools kind of all at once it's clutch
 yeah and just to be clear because the consortium does in fact wave the application fee for all these different schools
 basically yeah it's like 50 bucks per each per school
 okay
 um so I think I only paid 250 maybe $200
 and and it is it is just so everyone knows it is effectively a common app although there are there are some individual essays for each school and also it's important to note that the consortium is there to to you know to promote diversity but it's also for champions of diversity so if you're not a person of color you can you can still apply through the consortium if you if you promoted diversity which which really kind of opens it to a to a broad constituency as well
 um okay so you apply only to consortium schools
 uh should we have like a cliffhanger on this episode and move to the next one about choosing school
 i have a I have a question oh that was my question actually how did you choose the schools when I was brainstorming and just thinking of business schools you know years out you think of you know Harvard Stanford Wharton and then you think of M7 so like don't know why but obviously there's like presence with those names but in my mind I was like I need to go M7 um and and it's funny enough through on track there's a module that talks about why this school or maybe why this school isn't for you mhm
 and those modules really came to life for me because you start talking about why not this school and it's like hey if you're not that big into analytics or if you don't like cities or if you don't like the cold like you know you're not going to enjoy yourself and I am not a city guy i have no desire to be in New York City i have no desire to be in Chicago like I come from San Diego and Oslo um I get also it's cold but these are small towns like you know not major humongous cities I would say not small town but um you know it's not the San Francisco of the world LA Chicago New Yorks etc and so I and I also visited Colombia um I went to New York for the first time I visited Colombia and I'm walking around and I see the the Manhattanville campus and it's gorgeous but I'm like am I really going to be happy here like don't even not let's not even think about outcomes just yet like let's think about my genuine happiness like
 right
 you know let's talk about the days where it's Saturday and I want to like not think about school and I want to go live life like I don't know like you know it's me and my partner you know um I have two dogs so I'm like are we going to be having fun here and so that that just checked off so many schools from M7
 i feel like I'm going to add this to on track because I I I feel like this is so critical for people to hear people will every year Harold Serby says this before every year we get someone who like goes to tour Harvard Business School and says like I didn't have a really good experience and like like most people wonderful experience there say you know I didn't have a great experience and like I I'm still going to apply cuz it's Harvard and it's like
 you if you know definitively that you that you haven't had a good experience there like maybe you should listen to that and like you know and it doesn't mean that's a bad school just means it didn't click for you that's right and and I I appreciate the the way the thoughtfulness with which you're choosing your schools because you're choosing it based on not just on
 you know on on some arbitrary brand value but like on your you have to live there you have you have to be happy in your environment for 2 years if you're in the wrong place or you have the wrong learning style or the the wrong um you know the wrong size of school or whatever it might be you're not going to be happy there you you you put your own happiness first which is critical
 yeah and funny you know funny enough it's the way I look at it is it's fair game once you get into a top school like at that point you still need to execute in the interviews you still need to show up to the fall on campus recruiting events for careers like
 you know as long as that my companies are showing up at you know the schools that I'm looking at
 I don't need to be at this school that everyone like is really dying to be at
 and you honestly you do have to trust your gut at some point and the reality is we know better than than many much of this process can certainly be engineered there are certainly pieces to it that everyone has to do you have to make sure that you're you're very I would say aspirational in your dreams at the same point be realistic about it recognizing that there's all sorts of different schools that may ser you serve you well that said when it starts coming down to really choosing that school part of it is gut part of it is feel and I'm going to sort of inter interrupt here and tell you my own experience which is I got into a couple of schools and it was actually referring now to the big admit event i was living in Washington DC i won't say which school i went to the big admit event for one school on Wednesday night and it was a rahrh school hey and they had like 50 alumni there we're so great yeah yeah it's like yay everyone's real and then the following night it went to MIT and MIT they brought in a professor and the professor said hey here's how we teach at MIT and he gave a little bit of a mini course and I'm like that's the place for me and it's just you have to go by feel so what did you feel then in terms of some of the other schools that you were looking at decided yeah so once I kind of started knocking off all these other schools you know I ended up just focusing on um my applications were UVA Darden uh Dartmouth Tuck uh Duke Fugqua Cornell Johnson and Yale Soom and so um those were the schools I was targeting and I knew I was going to interview on campus at all of them i was going to try my best to really get a feel for it but and at the time I would say up almost for the whole point Dartmouth TU was always my top school of choice like for some reason when I was in Norway I was like this gives me dark like New Hampshire vibes or I don't know like there's something some connection here that I feel like would I I I would enjoy that experience i wanted the small town i mean especially that it's picking you up in the morning to take in school that's not a sign
 that that's that absolutely is a sign that's a story I'm gonna save it actually it was crazy um and so you know I'm I'm obsessed with Tuck at the time like that was kind of like the school of choice and
 even when it came to school selection you know there's the stereotype and I don't know if this is true or not but you hear stories of if you go to a major city school a lot of people may already have lives there or may be living in apartments you know out of town
 right and I wanted to be in a situation where it's like look I'm quitting my solid job like a great career right now like I'm happy at PWC i'm a manager in their advisory practice like it is like this is not a light decision that I'm doing to quit and I want others who are quitting as well to really be allin with me and I just felt like at a small school you know you have all these people moving to a town who
 I would assume are probably not from there you get a couple but majority are probably not from New Hampshire New Haven or aren't from uh Durham you know might be in Raleigh or Charlotte but like I really wanted that I wanted to be sure that all my classmates were all in so that as well was big in choosing about choosing and thinking about schools that's right we certainly have a lot of city schools where that's absolutely the case which is people do have their lives there they have their friends there and it's very transactional relationship they'll come onto campus take the course or two and then go back to their old life so I think that was very astute of you to recognize that this was a commitment this was a community
 yeah so that was big for me without a doubt
 you just mentioned Durham do I understand correctly that Duke was your final choice
 it was it absolutely was
 i think it's important to know that you got scholarships at several schools as well um full ride at at virtually at four schools right
 right yes so so Austin tell us like who it was and what the offers look like
 yeah so Dartmouth Tuck gave me full tuition scholarship almost 160 grand I think uh UVA Darden gave me full tuition in fees so that came out to like 170 um Cornell did not come full i think they gave me at least $100,000 um and and then Duke Fugqua came in just under full i think they put me initially around like 80% so started me off around like 130 um ended up closing it out around like 140 it it it was blew my mind when those numbers came like you know when I was thinking about applying to schools financially that was my biggest priority like whatever school and you know between me and my wife like we were thinking if it's not at least and this is crazy but if it wasn't at least like 50 or 60% like I don't know if we would have gone like this is a huge commitment
 and I was already you know doing fine in my career you know and I didn't know if I wanted to be 200 plus thousand in debt
 and so when the threshold got surpassed and it came down to like wow this is insane that was the biggest blessing ever absolutely
 and so I think I think reading between the lines there I mean you said that their first offer there was some negotiation yes
 on your aid package so you went back to them and said "Look I've got bigger opportunities with other programs is there anything you can do to match them?" And they came through
 exactly so I showed them you know all the all the offers I had you know it was over $500,000 in scholarship and I was like I want to come here like this is my top choice and and if you can just help match it you know or even just get me closer like I will come it really wasn't just the scholarship because Duke also came to you with some other opportunities advantages
 exactly so I was accepted as a So they have what's called a FUCA impact scholar um don't quote me on this i think there's five research centers and me having such a passion for leadership and serving yes
 i got selected as what's called the Cole so the Coach K center on leadership and ethics fal impact scholar and that was huge for me because I'm obsessed with leadership i then get to be kind of recognized as as a cult like FCL impact scholar which means for my whole first year I get to attend kind of some of these premier program events um under coach K and under that program and specialize in that and that was you know huge for me and you know my obsession with coach K and just leadership and sports so you know that was big for me too and the other thing too was they have a very flexible curriculum you know I know UVA Darden and um Tuck have a required first year curriculum so even looking into those lines I was like I don't know if I want to commit to a whole first year of you know mandatory courses not that I felt like I didn't need it but it was like I I want to do just one semester which is what Duke is of core classes and then you're into electives already and I wanted that like I wanted to just pick my classes for fun that makes sense you Austin throughout this conversation the thing that I've been really impressed with is your knowledge of the schools your knowledge of different schools the knowledge of yourself as far as what really resonates with you because I think one of the things that we see as consultants in fact particularly during ding reviews is everyone treats every school exactly like the other school and it doesn't really communicate sort of a genuine feeling that school
 perceived ranking that that or clearly perceived ranking just some hierarchy and say oh this one this one this one and don't even get to know them because they just accept that as an article of faith
 right
 clearly did your own homework
 yeah and listen that showed showed in a lot of ways not I'm sure that interviews despite the effort it took to maybe physically get to the interview i suspect it was a very good interview
 and and it's funny because I attended and I wish I would have done this at all the schools i This is one thing that if anyone's watching I highly encourage but it's attend uh diversity weekends if that's your thing you know if you're a military applicant attend that like attend those because I attended FUKA's it's called NBA workshop weekend um it's hosted by the uh ALMA which is the American Latin Management Association and then the Black Business Student Association and that weekend blew my mind when I found the people and community i left that weekend like "Oh wow." Like if this school doesn't accept me
 right
 this is going to suck like
 this is the place we're
 This is the place i I left there being like "This is I want to be here."
 And I'm thankful for that one has to wonder in this climate whether they'd be permitted legally to continue having university it is a student it's run by a student club so that could be a loophole um so Austin I one thing I'm really curious about is and I should just so viewers understand we we effectively gave Austin on track and I would jump in and jump out and just do some like micro help here and there so there are things I don't know about Austin at this point and one of them I'm curious about is you know your your career goals what did you you know you were you were in on a welltrodden path you had had a lot of success you were about to be a manager what did you say you wanted to do with your MBA because I think a lot of people are we talked about this on we talked on other podcasts were sort of afraid to kind of say I want to stick on the same path i like what I'm doing i just need these skills so where did you where did you say you wanted to go
 it's funny too because what I said I wanted to do which is what I wanted to do um is changing already and so hopefully anyone listening enjoys this but at the time I applied being saying I wanted to be a cyber security partner so I wanted to be a partner in my firm
 um which was interesting because you know you don't need an MBA to be a partner and especially in the big four like they will almost ask you like why are you getting an NBA like just stay here like keep doing what you're doing keep crushing it learn the you know you're already client facing you're already getting promoted like you know you don't need that and so that was an interesting um sort of twist that I had to explain in my story was like well although I recognize that you don't need an MBA to be a partner I've noticed that some of the global leaders of our firm like the senior senior partners do have MBAs and um that was very eye opening for me and and also you know I don't know if being a partner was really what I wanted to be um I'm still not ruling it out but I wanted the NBA to just give me a platform and breath that regardless of in life you know if I want to switch or if I want to do something different I'll have the NBA behind me to to support me and encourage me through that
 right and one of the purposes of the NBA is in fact to explore these things maybe spend the summer doing something different to to find these worlds that you may not never known had even existed
 exactly
 so what what have you evolved towards
 yeah so I'm leaning towards product management now um and I'm trying to blend like my cyber security p like my cyber security knowledge with that so somehow maybe and I'm just this is all like rough draft still here like we're thinking through this live but you know maybe being a product manager for like crowd strike or for like a cyber security company or like Google security division like Mandian or Google Cloud like somehow being part of like the security division of a company um at a big brand big tech name but sort of being a product manager for the cyber side of things um so that I'm starting to investigate and and kind of see where it goes but it's still all kind of rough draft
 and Duke is a great place to do that they've gotten really committed to the whole tech world at this point and Research Triangle Park
 u will you be able to though do you miss San Diego i I 100% you know nothing I think will beat San Diego but at the end of the day it'll always be there it'll always be home um I'm very fortunate to be in a position where I can leave right now and you know stay away you know for as long as I need to to to set my career up so um
 that's that's great then Austin well thank you very much for sharing your journey with us and we look forward to chatting with you more
 and stay tuned for part two where we talk a little bit more about Austin's selection his his choice of schools uh how he made those those challenging choices and what he's looking forward to at uh at Duke Fukqua thank you
 fantastic Austin really this is great really really great thanks for joining us
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