EP 65 | Insider Tips From an HBS Interviewer

In this week's episode of the mbaMission podcast, Harold Simansky and Jeremey Shinewald welcome back mbaMission Executive Director Devi Vallabhaneni. Devi is an alum of Harvard Business School and spent years interviewing HBS applicants as a member of the admissions board. As mbaMission's Interviewer in Residence, she conducts hundreds of interview simulations for HBS applicants every year. Today Devi shares her insights on the HBS interview process, from who gets invited to interview to the ways in which you should (and shouldn't) prepare for your interview. If you are applying to Harvard Business School, this episode is a must watch!

00:00 Welcome to the mbaMission podcast
 00:40 The Harvard Business School interview
02:55 What does HBS want to learn through the interview
04:18 What have you done vs. how you present your experience
07:50 What does the HBS class look like
09:25 Who gets an interview?
10:30 How to prepare for your HBS interview
13:40 How to discuss your work experience
17:54 The perspective of the interviewer 
24:06 Should you time your answers?
26:28 Don't underestimate your HBS interviewer
28:17 What non-work questions will you be asked
29:54 Who doesn't make it past the interview
31:40 Improving as a reapplicant 
34:09 Closing thoughts

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Book your FREE 30-minute MBA admissions consultation with Harold or another one of our experienced MBA admissions consultants by filling out this form.

Learn more about onTrack by mbaMission, our innovative, on-demand MBA application platform, and take our two-minute questionnaire to receive your customized learning path.

‼️Use code MBAMPOD for 30% off any onTrack subscription‼️

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Transcript

Welcome to the mbaMission podcast

Harold Simansky 0:00

How does one prepare for a Harvard Business School

Speaker 02 0:02

interview? You have to speak like an executive,

Speaker 00 0:04

not as an analyst. Get to the point in this interview where you're conversational. The STAR

Speaker 02 0:09

method is the very basic that you should come up with, and I'll help you get to the point and be strategic.

Jeremy Shinewald 0:15

Some people go into the interviews and they're not prepared and they don't know where the questions are coming from.

Devi Vallabhaneni 0:19

You've got to meet the moment of, you know this is a big deal, and trust me, the interviewer knows that this is a really big deal. They're going to give you every single shot.

The Harvard Business School interview

Harold Simansky 0:28

Right. We all know that Harvard Business School is one of the most competitive MBA programs in the world, and the last hurdle in the admissions process is the interview. The HBS interview is unlike any other. highly personalized, fast-paced, and intentionally designed to probe your thinking. To pull back the curtain on what really goes on behind the scenes, we're joined by someone who knows the process from the inside out, Devi Vallabhanani, Executive Director at mbaMission and a former HBS interviewer. Today, we'll be talking with Devi about how the process really works, what kind of questions you can expect, and how to approach the interview with purpose and poise. Whether you're hoping for an HBS invite or just want to understand how elite programs evaluate candidates at the highest level, Devi's insight will help you sharpen your strategy and calm your nerves. Welcome to the podcast, Devi. Devi, do I understand correctly, you probably do hundreds of of mock Harvard Business School interviews each year? The last

Devi Vallabhaneni 1:33

time I counted, it was about 300 mock. I don't really call them mock because I only know how to do the intensive simulation. I do about 300 individual intensive simulations per admissions year.

Jeremy Shinewald 1:47

And so just to be clear for anyone who's listening, people often do two, three, four sessions with you. So it might be even up to eight, 90 people, something like that. Across two rounds. Yeah, that's exactly right. Right.

Harold Simansky 1:59

And Devi, overall how many Harvard Business School interviews did you do in a much more formal way as a member of the admissions group?

Devi Vallabhaneni 2:06

I haven't counted that, but I'll share with you in terms of when they had the model of alumni interviews, I did that for a handful of years. I was an alumni interviewer in Los Angeles in the early 2000s. And then they changed their whole model around. And then for three years, I was part of the admissions board where I interviewed people in Boston, London, and Paris. And it would be about eight to 10 interviews a day. And where I was both the interviewer and then the observer. So both. And people don't underestimate the observer. You can do the math.

What does HBS want to learn through the interview

Harold Simansky 2:43

It adds up pretty quickly. Right. No, it seems to. So you've seen a lot. You do a lot. You continue to do a lot. So again, getting away from this notion of secrets, it's just how should, let's forget, how do we even think about our business school interview? What are they trying to understand?

Devi Vallabhaneni 2:58

Yeah, I think the number one thing is, first of all, it is such a Okay. If they're interviewing Harold, they want to get to know Harold. That's it. And what that means is who you are, what you've done. And this is my interpretation of that is what's the depth of your job, right? In terms of not just what you do, but like, you know, tell me the nitty gritty stuff that you've done, the hardest stuff that you've done. If you're like, you know, I go to work and I do this and I sit in meetings and I do a couple of spreadsheets and then I go home. Versus, you know, I just have this huge project and it's the pet project of our CEO. We had to, during COVID, we had to find $150 million of savings. Otherwise we were going to go under. And that required, you know, so much effort and creativity. And I had to, I mean, look at the difference.

What have you done vs. how you present your experience

Harold Simansky 4:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, of course, of course. But of course, you can think about that with regard to two dimensions. One is your ability, first of all, what are you doing? like you say, the significance of the job, the depth of the job, but then there's also a piece of it in terms of how you present that information.

Devi Vallabhaneni 4:30

And that's where people get lost.

Jeremy Shinewald 4:31

Right, for sure. It's

Devi Vallabhaneni 4:32

huge, because especially for people who've only had one employer, right, in terms of they only know how to speak that employer. If I worked at GE, I speak GE. If I worked at McKinsey, I speak McKinsey. If I worked at my family, I mean, I can go on. But my point is, that's fine for how you do well in your job, but you have to now, all of a sudden, like, Tell the depth of your job, the framing, the strategic part of it, the nitty-gritty hard parts of it, and then the outcome to a complete stranger.

Harold Simansky 5:02

That's right.

Devi Vallabhaneni 5:02

And you're like, well, how much do they know? And this, how much do I say? Do I teach them about what we do? Like, there's so much. If I may,

Jeremy Shinewald 5:09

can I just take a step? Yeah, of course. Before even thinking about what you should be saying, people need to think about what they should not be saying. Because I think that a lot of people are like, I am... I'm an introvert. I'm going to go in and I'm going to be a wild extrovert. They want personality. I'm going to go in and be a little more of a comedian than I'm used to. You've got to be yourself. Oh my God. And I could see

Devi Vallabhaneni 5:31

it right away.

Harold Simansky 5:31

Right.

Devi Vallabhaneni 5:32

They use different voices.

Harold Simansky 5:33

Right. Yeah. Like the Elizabeth Holmes thing. I'm going to walk in and I'm going to use a deep voice. Yeah. And this is not going to work. If you want to be one consult. We look forward to working with you.

Devi Vallabhaneni 6:12

This year I had for one of my intensive clients, You know, when we start, we jump into the interview mode. So, I didn't know his real self, right? And that comes in the debrief time. And immediately, I'm like, I don't think this person is the real self. Because it was just like, he became a caricature of himself. And he couldn't answer the questions because he was so focused on presenting in such, in a way that he lost track of the substance.

Jeremy Shinewald 6:40

And can I say, just jumping in on your behalf, like, that's part of the reason why you don't like to do just one long interview with someone. No, not at all. And when you do that, it's like people are just loosening up. They're just learning to be themselves. That's

Devi Vallabhaneni 6:51

exactly right.

Jeremy Shinewald 6:52

And they need to get into a place where they've done a few reps so they can walk in there and really relax. and feel like they're authentically presenting their identity and their experiences. Oh,

Devi Vallabhaneni 7:03

absolutely. I view it as just like you can't, you know, you can't nail an essay in like one draft. Like, how do you think you can nail your interview prep with me in one mock? Like, I think of my intensives. I forgot, I don't use mocks. I just correct myself. It's like each intensive is like, think of it as like an intense draft, right? In terms of, so I'll give you feedback on the first one. Then what do you do with it? Like, I'd like to see you like a doctor again, you know, and if you put it into practice and then we refine where you refine just like your essays

Jeremy Shinewald 7:32

i'm gonna i'm actually gonna riff on what you just said where you said mock i mean that's right i mean intensives right you don't have to be perfect correct you don't have every single every single thing doesn't need to be a soundbite it doesn't have to be rehearsed in fact i can tell worse

Devi Vallabhaneni 7:44

i can tell when you rehearse something and you're just so ready to like stick it into whatever question i ask

What does the HBS class look like

Harold Simansky 7:49

that's right well listen part of the reason is people have a real misperception about what happens in the harvard business school classroom and what harvard business school students look like correct i think that that's certainly an issue here and I have been in a number of Harvard Business School classes frequently my clients will invite me to join them there and it's a very exciting place at the same point I'm always struck with how different the people are there is no one they're not all looking there as superheroes and I think that's a misperception in the sense of Harvard Business School does in fact need many different types of people personalities that's

Devi Vallabhaneni 8:24

the world it's the microcosm of the world industry people personality geography Hobbies, values, ambitions, goals. Oh my God, absolutely. There's alphas, there's betas, there's introverts, there's extroverts. Oh my God, of course. You name it. That is what makes admission an art. At HBS, it's an art. At other schools, it might be a science. But at HBS, everything is individual. They want to get to know who Jeremy is. They want to get to know. And I always say, they accept people, not applications. And so, just because you get the interview doesn't mean and you have a great application. And people don't realize that some applications still have holes.

Who gets an interview?

Harold Simansky 9:05

Yep, right. Listen, I think all of us have had the experience where we've had clients who Believe me, their GMAT is not where it should be. Their GPA is not where it should be. At the end of the day, though, they are, in fact, accepted at Harvard Business School. And after the fact, we look at them, we sort of say, we sort of understand why, I think, when all is said and done. Devi, just to make this clear, if I get a Harvard interview, the reality is that I can still get in. There is no such thing as, I'll call them, sympathetic interviews. There's no reason to be interviewing you.

Devi Vallabhaneni 9:36

No, no, no, no. But I will say, to set expectations, it means they want to learn more about you. Let's set expectations. It doesn't mean your application was stellar, and it doesn't mean that it was horrible and it was a sympathy. It's neither extreme. And I would say they want to learn more about you because when Jeremy and I do these webinars, they're like, oh, how much does it, what percentage does it count in my overall application? Or will stuff from my application come up? Of course. It's like, think of it as a one-two punch. Right? Okay, the application got you. Great. And then it is its own beast. It's its own way of preparation. And so the way you prepared for your essays and application may not be the way you should prepare for your interview. One is a written form and one is a verbal form.

Harold Simansky 10:30

Two different. So let's take it one step further. So how does one prepare for a Harvard Business School interview?

Devi Vallabhaneni 10:35

First of all, I think people underestimate the STAR method. I think that is the first step to really articulating what you've done. A STAR

Harold Simansky 10:46

method, again, is situation, task, action, result, very structured.

Jeremy Shinewald 10:49

Even before then, I always say to anyone, the first thing you do read your entire file and really re-familiarize yourself with your entire application. Because it's, for those who, I don't think we've said this, it's an applied interview. So it's not one where they're going to walk in and say, oh, tell me about yourself. Why do you want to get your MBA? Tell me about a hobby. It's not linear at all. Yeah, so it's like, if you put on your resume, that you're an avid fan of the Marx Brothers films, as I am, then someone might say, oh, that's so interesting. Tell me about your past. It's not a gotcha interview, right? Of course not. It's not like they're looking for this one thing they're going to poke. I don't believe this Marx Brothers thing. This is an idiosyncratic hobby, and I want to test this. It's more like, hey, how can you be an avid fan? Well, you've got to be prepared to tell a story about, in my case, watching it with my father and sharing it with my children. So So, like, you know, I've seen all of them many times. And so, like, I can share that story. It's credible. But if you forget and you walk in and someone says, oh, you're a marksman. Oh, yeah, no, I've watched the films a lot of time. You're just not ready for it. You're caught off guard. And so, you know, the first thing is read your entire file and really think about the information you shared. That's the first thing. After that, it's, okay, now let's think about, you know, some of our narratives and maybe some of the things that we haven't. been able to share or that someone might want to poke and say, oh, that's interesting. I'd love to know more about that. But I will also say this, and I'm talking too much, but I will say this. I once, the genesis of the, I don't want to say mock, of the... Of the intensive. Of

Devi Vallabhaneni 12:33

the HBS interview

Jeremy Shinewald 12:35

in residence. Is that a past client of mine who was really important to me, I had him sit down with Devi when she wasn't even on our team. I had

Devi Vallabhaneni 12:42

interviewed him for two plus two

Jeremy Shinewald 12:45

yeah oh that's right and oh okay it was this that's right by sheer coincidence yeah and uh and he he wasn't a great fit for two plus two separate conversation but but uh but uh you know he applied he came back and applied and he ultimately did get in but i watched Devi do a dozen mock interviews over a couple of weeks and um there was never the same starting point and so it's it's not that they're going to say okay jeremy like everyone's going to ask about the Marx Brothers passion. It's like, if you do 20 of these things, maybe that happens once, but maybe the other time it's about volunteer hockey coaching, or the next time it's about, in my case, some aspect of speech writing. So it can be really different. And so it's not about predicting on the basis of the application. It's just about having it all present and top of mind so that you can talk about it intelligently. Right.

How to discuss your work experience

Devi Vallabhaneni 13:39

Everything you said, yes. And so where people get tripped up is really the work stuff and that's what I focus on so in terms of you know it's the 80-20 rule in terms of sessions I really I heavily index on work because that's where that's where you can get in if you nail the Marx Brothers question and bomb the work question yeah like you know what I mean so for me I focus heavily on and especially depends on number of sessions and blah blah so I can organize but for example for work I don't think people use the STAR method enough.

Harold Simansky 14:13

Okay.

Devi Vallabhaneni 14:14

And especially verbally.

Harold Simansky 14:15

Yes.

Devi Vallabhaneni 14:16

And what the STAR method does, it forces you to be succinct and get to the point on the most important thing. If you ramble on the strategic side, and also people, I think what they do is they're very technical. Oh, situation. Okay, we want to increase sales. Okay, there's probably more to it. You know what I mean in terms of business context. And then task, I did a spreadsheet. I mean, I'm being extreme. No, no, no, of course, of course. Right. Not as an analyst. Do you know what I mean in terms of so? Absolutely. So if you're an analyst, I see this with my clients. Right. When they are in C-level meetings, they're talking like an executive. But all of a sudden, in like the first couple of intensives with me, they resort to speaking like an analyst because they feel like they need to walk me through every little thing that they do. And once I tell them, well, you're in meetings with C-level executives, right? That's right. They're like, yeah. Oh, I need to speak like that.

Harold Simansky 15:34

Yes. That's right. In fact, when I start prepping my clients for the Harvard interview, I start off and say to them, recognize you and now having a meeting with the CEO, what are you going to say to them? That's

Devi Vallabhaneni 15:43

exactly right. You have to, you know, be strategic, but get to the point.

Harold Simansky 15:47

Yep. Like,

Devi Vallabhaneni 15:48

I know, for any of my, you know, past clients who are listening, which I don't know why you would, you will hear me get to the point often.

Jeremy Shinewald 15:56

But I think that maybe all goes back to the story, which is that, you know, you kind of, you want to, you want to, first of all, I have to tell people, like when they're asked a question, just take a deep breath and think about

Harold Simansky 16:06

what you want to say. Right, that's right.

Jeremy Shinewald 16:07

Like, it might feel like an eternity to you, but this long, Right, right. Isn't that much? No, not at all. And so take a deep breath, think of what you want to say, and then you've got to frame it for someone. Yeah, exactly. And so it's not like you're– I think if you do enough of this, you're not like actively thinking, okay, have I established the situation? Right. Have I moved to the test? No. That's why you do the intensive. Right, because it's

Devi Vallabhaneni 16:24

fluid. What I'm saying is if you don't even know how to do the STAR method, what I'm about to– like the intensive with me is going to blow your mind. Right, right, yes. But the STAR method is the very basic that you should come up with, and then we refine and everything. And I'll help you get to the point and be strategic.

The perspective of the interviewer

Jeremy Shinewald 16:40

Do you know what I mean? We always joke about one of the worst interviews you had where someone said, Devi asked this person, what did you learn when you studied abroad? And this person said... I learned to make my bed. And it's like, it was obviously a terrible answer, but this person, maybe sheepish or didn't know what he was into or felt the pressure, whatever it might have been. We empathize with this individual. But like... When you develop the full answer, you know, in this case, you know, an answer could be about, when we've talked about the past, but like, well, you know, I was somewhat, admittedly, I have to admit, I was somewhat entitled as a kid. When I went to study abroad, the world opened up. I had to start doing things on my own. That's right. Simple things like making my bed, going grocery shopping. Right. You know, doing them on my own. Right. Opened my eyes up to some of the privilege I had, and I had to, from that point forward, I determined I'd be a lot more independent. Yeah, right. And you can see in my resume the dot, dot, dot. Yeah. Like, That's fine. There's a reason they ask. You might say to yourself, well, that's silly. They could ask you about your study abroad if there are questions around it, whatever it is. But that's... That's an individual, again, you don't have to be slavish to the star method, but just thinking a little bit more about the context that someone would need to understand where you're coming from. That's

Devi Vallabhaneni 17:54

what I'm saying. They just want to understand you. It is one of the most sincere exchanges between two people. And I think that's an important thing, too. I like to talk about this, too. When you were interviewing people, you were empathetic towards them. You were not trying to find the moment where they colored outside the lines and kick them out of the party. Not at all. And, you know, when I was at HBS, before every interview, I would literally get nervous and where I feel nerves are in my hands, in my palms, because I owe it to this person to be my best, to get their best in this half hour, because I know it's life-altering. Your life could go this way, your life could go that way. And I say HBS is the number one choice for the vast majority of people. And I always say, like, you got to meet the moment, right? In terms of you got to meet the moment of you know this is a big deal and trust me the interviewer knows that this is a really big deal they're going to give you every single shot

Harold Simansky 18:51

right

Devi Vallabhaneni 18:51

to do well like i want you to do well yeah do you know what i mean in terms of like for people who are like oh they're negative and they're trying to get me yeah and it's like i don't know how to change that frame

Jeremy Shinewald 19:02

of mind i think i think the i think the reason why that that persists is because some people go into the interviews and they're not prepared and they don't know where the questions are coming from yeah and so it feels Yeah, I tell that upfront. And so, again, it just depends on your preparation. If you feel prepared and you understand the way the interview works, you shouldn't feel like it's a gotcha. You should feel like someone's inquiring about your experience. I live in the Boston area. I know another woman who does interviews for Harvard. And almost like, she is a mom, and almost like a mom, she's like, I really want the people I interview to do well. And she's like, I feel the same thing you're saying, basically. I feel their pressure and I'm in it with them. And that's important because I think if you can get in that room and look at the other person and know they're a human being who is actually... On

Devi Vallabhaneni 20:18

your

Jeremy Shinewald 20:19

side. You're meeting the moment as well. Yeah, you have to. On your side, then

Harold Simansky 20:23

you should be able to relax and get there. Not really. And I'm going to push back on this. In the notion of here, one of your jobs as an HBS interviewer is look at the consultant from Bain, look at the consultant from McKinsey, look at the consultant from BCG, and I sort of like something's just not feeling right here. Isn't one of your jobs, though, to say, okay, I want this person rather than that person? Sort of fundamentally, isn't that the application process? Yes, but

Devi Vallabhaneni 20:46

it's based on what they've said and what they've done, not because they meet some median of a consultant.

Harold Simansky 20:53

Right. And

Jeremy Shinewald 20:54

there's room for more than one consultant. A classic example. Yeah. Right. And everything, every answer was word salad. And there is, it is not about nerves. It is not about anything. This didn't even, there's no way this person would be successful as a consultant. There's no way they would put this person in front of a client.

Harold Simansky 21:32

It

Devi Vallabhaneni 21:32

was so bad. It was not even in the realm of like, oh, maybe this experience outweighed. No. It was so out of left field as the, you know, isn't that what they say? And it was just so extreme. A great application can't make up for that kind of person.

Jeremy Shinewald 21:54

Right. I think we're making a whole bunch of broad points that kind of coalesce around an overall message, which is that you have to get to the point in this interview where you're conversational. You're, you know, where you're, you're really, I mean, you can be forgiven for being a little bit nervous. Oh my God, of course. You can, yeah, you know, like no one's going to say like, oh,

Devi Vallabhaneni 22:13

this, You know, they're like this.

Jeremy Shinewald 22:15

Yeah, and it happens. And, like, no one's going to say, you know, there isn't room for you because your hand was shaking when you reached for your water. But you want to get to a place where you feel like you're hopefully ideally, ideal place. And you might get there for a few moments and you might be thrown for a loop for a second and get back there. Overall, you want to get to a place where you're just kind of sharing. You're just telling your story, sharing. You're in the moment. You're thinking about it. You're not like... okay, she asked me this question. How do I make sure that this activity can fit this question? There's nothing forced. Where's my rehearsed answer? Right. You know, you're just like, okay, I'm listening. And in the moment, that feels like the ideal answer. And I'm going to start discussing it in a way that is meaningful to me.

Devi Vallabhaneni 22:59

Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And it goes back to the assumption for everything that we're talking about is you have a degree of self-awareness.

Harold Simansky 23:08

No, I think that's right. That is like a prerequisite, right?

Devi Vallabhaneni 23:11

And if not, the intensives are going to feel

Harold Simansky 23:20

really intense. grow, who can be thoughtful about that growth. And I guess it starts with the interview.

Devi Vallabhaneni 23:34

Oh, absolutely. In terms of if you can't even tell me what you do, what is there to talk about? What do you have to contribute? It's a section experience. If you can't even tell me what you do in a strategic, cogent manner,

Harold Simansky 23:54

It's

Devi Vallabhaneni 23:54

going to be really hard for you in section.

Harold Simansky 23:56

Right.

Should you time your answers?

Devi Vallabhaneni 23:57

And then we were talking about this earlier today. It's like two things that really just still trip my mind after all these years. Number one, there's a newer myth going around, and it's not from MBA admission and not from my colleagues at MBA admission.

Jeremy Shinewald 24:12

We don't traffic in myths here.

Devi Vallabhaneni 24:14

Exactly. But there are enough other admissions consultants or just friends or friends of applicants that say, you have to time your answers.

Jeremy Shinewald 24:21

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. You will

Devi Vallabhaneni 24:23

not believe. how many people think that

Jeremy Shinewald 24:26

oh my god yeah do you think that the hbs admissions team is in there like with a stop no and i tell like i don't even know what a 30 second answer is i don't know what a one

Devi Vallabhaneni 24:34

minute answer

Jeremy Shinewald 24:35

is you have an interview with anyone where you felt like there has to be a cadence like this

Devi Vallabhaneni 24:39

is it just blows my mind of like was that it was that good because i i timed myself and i'm like you're shooting yourself in the foot right what's that phrase you're uh cutting your nose to spite your face like that's exactly what it feels like because you're you're doing your Oh, my God.

Harold Simansky 25:15

pretty buttoned up.

Devi Vallabhaneni 25:16

I would rather say get to the point than cut off something really important. A buttoned up just comes with practice. The idea is it's almost like, this is kind of an oxymoron, but it's like practice improvisation. That's exactly right. You can practice, you can become a better public speaker, you can become a better communicator. You can't do that in three days, fundamentally change, but you can scale up quickly. That's right. It's like writing an essay. If I had more

Harold Simansky 25:47

time, I would have written a shorter essay.

Devi Vallabhaneni 25:49

That's exactly right. The way you approach your interview prep should be no different than how you approach your essays. You're not going to nail it on the first one. It's going to take time to put it together and shave and be efficient, right?

Jeremy Shinewald 26:02

And this isn't something like, I mean, yes, there's obviously some knowledge of this process. This isn't like an HBS specific construct. It's like, yeah, it's life. People call Devi for, you know, people who've done interviews with her at HBS call her for sometimes for job stuff and say like, can you prepare me, you know, help me tell my story? It's like, yeah, like I can. It's how we relate to each other in sometimes high pressure situations.

Don't underestimate your HBS interviewer

Devi Vallabhaneni 26:26

And it's the, you know, this is where I think people underestimate the HBS interviewer. They've seen everything.

Harold Simansky 26:34

Right. Right. That's what I'll say frequently. And

Devi Vallabhaneni 26:37

so, you know, so it's like they probably know more about your industry than you do.

Harold Simansky 26:41

Yep.

Devi Vallabhaneni 26:42

And so the other big thing that still blows my mind today, even after all the videos that I've done, no matter how many people I've coached, is the question of, do I have to know what goes on in my industry?

Harold Simansky 26:54

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Devi Vallabhaneni 26:56

Why wouldn't you? Right, right, exactly. Especially if it's of your goals and you say you really, like,

Jeremy Shinewald 27:02

what? And I think the whole, just to go back, unfortunately, the whole gotcha thing, it comes from like someone saying, you know, okay, so someone's at a private equity firm now and they were at a bank before that and say, well, tell me about this deal that you did. It's like, oh, I don't know. I have to share that? It's like, it's on your resume. You put it as something you want them to know. Absolutely. And it's not, again, it's not that they're saying like, we want to catch you. It's like, that might have been really interesting. Yeah, that's exactly right. It might have been super interesting to have gotten a deal across the finish line in consumer products during a tariff war. Right. That might be very interesting. That's what I

Devi Vallabhaneni 27:43

mean by don't underestimate the interviewer because they are triangulating everything in your application.

Harold Simansky 27:48

Right. Yeah, listen, I'll say that to clients very quickly, particularly in terms of writing their essays, is you're not going to fool the admissions committee members. That's simply not a possibility. And this notion here of be genuine, be authentic, the reality is that... Devi, you started here. You're a unique person. Sort of let that show through.

Devi Vallabhaneni 28:07

You're already respected. It's already assumed that you have something to say and contribute. Run with it.

What non-work questions will you be asked

Harold Simansky 28:15

Right, absolutely. Okay, so we talked a little bit about this essentially job talk that you will likely be asked to do at Harvard Business School essay. That's 80% of it. What is the other 20%?

Devi Vallabhaneni 28:26

Just who you are as a person. Your values. Your values can show through just kind of maybe your life story. They can show through your extracurriculars. Maybe it's your leadership. And leadership comes in so many different forms, right? And so, it's like, no, you don't need to volunteer, you know, every single Saturday. It's not that. Maybe it's something phenomenal you did at work. Maybe it's how you helped a client under just extreme circumstances. There are so many ways to show who you are. I would like to, I wish more people saw the daylight between them as a human and them as an employee. And I think that makes a big difference. And that's what I mean by that self-awareness. A lot of people feel like they need to show up as that employee. They're only talking about work. And that's it. I have no hobbies. I have nothing else. I have no dreams. I have nothing else. But I'm like, you're a human. I want to get to know both sides

Harold Simansky 29:19

of you. Right. Listen, I always tell my clients what makes you the most interesting is what's on the margins. Those things that need not be obvious. And frequently people say, well, I don't have a lot of activities outside of the office. And I say, And it turns out they're actually the one who are caring for their grandmother. It's like that's significant. Correct. That indicates who you are as a person. Absolutely. Yeah. You're the sum of all of your experiences. That's exactly right. They like who you are at this point. They want to know more about you.

Devi Vallabhaneni 29:44

That's it. They want to know more.

Jeremy Shinewald 29:46

Right. Don't try and push them away from the information they want. That's exactly right. Lean into it. Right, right. If it's important to you, it's important.

Who doesn't make it past the interview

Devi Vallabhaneni 29:52

Right. I would say in terms of the people who don't get in, I think people implode completely on their own. Okay. There are enough people who can completely implode completely.

Jeremy Shinewald 30:03

Generally speaking, lack of preparation and not in like a highly critical way. Right. Often just like I didn't realize exactly what needed to go into it. They think the

Devi Vallabhaneni 30:10

bar is here when the bar is here.

Jeremy Shinewald 30:12

Yeah.

Devi Vallabhaneni 30:12

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So that's one bucket.

Harold Simansky 30:15

They think they can charm the interviewer. That's what I always think. They think they can go in there. It's

Devi Vallabhaneni 30:20

like, so I want to connect with the interviewer.

Speaker 01 30:22

Oh, okay.

Devi Vallabhaneni 30:23

And I'm like, your job is not to connect with the interviewer. Right. They're not your buddy. Right. They're doing their job. You have a job to do. Right. It's such a professional sincere exchange. And they're like, I've got to connect. And I'm like, no, be who you are. Blossom. Talk about yourself.

Jeremy Shinewald 30:39

We always, whenever we do our webinars, sometimes someone always asks, like, can I take notes? It's like, no. What are the notes for? I

Devi Vallabhaneni 30:47

mean, so I wish I had a dollar for every time they put their, like, before they put their portfolio up there, and then their resume, and then their pen, and they're ready. And then it's blank by the time

Jeremy Shinewald 30:57

they finish. And

Harold Simansky 30:59

like

Jeremy Shinewald 31:00

the For people who will feel nervous with this process, more than any other school at HBS, the questions will be about what you have told them. They'll be about you, right? That's exactly right. They're not going to ask you for your prediction on inflation in Peru this year. They are going to ask you about your job. They're going to ask you about your projects. They're going to ask you about your extracurriculars, your personal life. But they're not going to ask you anything that you can't answer. So it's about prepping to answer. That's what

Improving as a reapplicant

Devi Vallabhaneni 31:34

I mean by, even softballs, if you can't even answer softball questions, you didn't do any preparation. Right,

Harold Simansky 31:40

right. In fact, so Devi, let me reach back to something that you two already talked about, is this notion here of you interviewed somebody for the 2 Plus 2 program, and they were not accepted, and at that point you saw the same person, whatever it was, two, three, four years, you helped prep them, and at that point they were accepted. How were they different? What were those things that you really focused on, and What do you think actually was the key piece of the puzzle for them?

Devi Vallabhaneni 32:05

Well, for this person, they didn't have the maturity for two plus two. Okay. And didn't do the work of like describing. I think he objectively probably could have gotten in.

Speaker 01 32:15

Yeah.

Devi Vallabhaneni 32:16

But, you know, there are things in the interview that you're just like, this guy's not ready. In terms of just absolutely not. But I remember when we were prepping, and this was after I left HBS, he said, I still remember every question you asked me, because it made me think. And so, to me, that showed that he thought the interview was probably more linear than what it really was. Objectively speaking, professionally speaking, he would have been a fine 2 plus 2 candidate. But I think he just tripped over himself because of, you know, what he... thought the interview was versus what it actually was. By the time it came to, and I think he would have been on the same path post-college. You know what I mean?

Harold Simansky 32:56

That's important, actually.

Devi Vallabhaneni 32:58

So he did exactly what he was going to do. He just matured. He did phenomenal things. And there's one story about what he did as an intern, or in his first job or as an intern, that still sticks with me. And there are times when I still refer back to that story that I'm like, that is a sign of leadership. You grew up a lot. So just because you didn't get in for two plus two, that's a time and place in your life versus somebody. But the way I prepare is exactly the same. The way I expect them to be, exactly the same. There's no like, oh, these are the two plus two questions and these are the regular questions. Nothing like that.

Jeremy Shinewald 33:38

The questions are so specific to the individual always. That's exactly right. And again, like with that individual, I don't know, how many of you Oh, my God. We'll probably do like 25 over the course. I might have never have. And always a different starting point. And, you know, and then sometimes like every once in a while, I always feel this is an indication of whether you're doing well. I don't want anyone to read into this and be like, wow, if I don't get asked this, I'm not doing well. But sometimes like the admissions interview will say, no, where do you want to take this conversation? It means nothing. It means

Closing thoughts

Harold Simansky 34:08

nothing. So any last thoughts, Devi?

Devi Vallabhaneni 34:11

It's not as hard as you think it is, but you have to put in the time to prepare. Okay. That's it. I mean, it's, and please stop reading the blogs, except for mbaMission's. .

Jeremy Shinewald 34:23

Well, we're pretty, we're pretty down the road, like middle of the road. That's exactly right.

Devi Vallabhaneni 34:27

Anything extreme that's out there, do not listen to. Yeah.

Jeremy Shinewald 34:30

Yeah. Yeah. And any, any, any riddle that you can unlock, like, you know, answer, answer every question with, uh, thank you very much for having me. Yeah. There are three things that I need to talk about. Oh, Oh, my God. Anything that sounds like a gimmick is a gimmick.

Devi Vallabhaneni 34:43

Yes, and I can see right through it.

Harold Simansky 34:45

Right, right. No, that makes sense then. Well, at mbaMission we have no gimmicks, though we do a great job of prepping people for interviews, particularly HBS interviews with Devi. So, by all means, give us a call. Go to our website.

Speaker 00 34:58

Devi's getting in a huge, like a significant percentage of the class annually. I mean, significant being, you know, what, 6%, 7% of the class. It's a lot. She's done enough of this that she knows what she's

Harold Simansky 35:14

doing. Devi, thank you very much for being here today. We really appreciate it.

Devi Vallabhaneni 35:18

It's always my pleasure to be with you both. Thanks.

Jeremy Shinewald 35:20

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