The mbaMission Podcast

Ep 67 | Tips for Nailing Your MBA Interviews

• mbaMission • Season 2 • Episode 67

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Round 1 business school application deadlines are here, which means interview season is just around the corner. In this week's episode of the mbaMission podcast we're discussing all things interviews, and sharing our top tips for succeeding on interview day. This week Harold Simansky and Jeremy Shinewald are joined by mbaMission Senior Consultant Susan McInerny. Harold, Jeremy, and Susan discuss interview anxiety (and how to manage it), how to prepare for your interviews, what to ask your interviewer, and what NOT to do on interview day. Today's episode is a must-listen for anyone preparing for MBA interviews, whether those interviews are just around the corner or a few months away.

00:00 Welcome to the mbaMission podcast
00:42 Managing interview anxiety 
05:15 HBS interviews
05:51 Don't script your answers!
08:26 Human-centered conversations
09:25 When you don't have an answer
10:59 How to prepare for interviews 
14:54 Questions to ask your interviewer
18:06 Funny interview stories
20:32 Video interviews
21:39 The Wharton Team Based Discussion (TBD)

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Harold:

I had a client who was interviewed by someone in a swimming pool. As we're doing more stuff on Zoom, I say to some applicants who I'm interviewing, I can tell you're reading. Don't

Susan:

do that. Everybody's got four or five stories or occasions that are big things, right? They're the richest, most robust pieces of their background. If you look at those four or five things from multiple angles, that story can be used for multiple

Harold:

questions. The person on the other side of the table is mainly thinking, can you speak English? Are you weird? That's really what we're talking about here. just an HBS interview prep today with a fantastic guy that noted even the best people certainly feel the pressure. It certainly lends to a lot of anxiety. So a few just thoughts on how one overcomes anxiety before an interview. Can I start with a very basic point, which is I think it's super important people just understand the role of the interview and understand that at most schools, if not all schools, it is not meant to be a pressure interview. No one is trying to rake you over the coals. No one is going to ask you about anything that you don't know about. I think that's the easiest way to contextualize it. The whole thing is about you and you know yourself quite well. And so you might need to do some review of the things you shared. You might need to review your key stories. Make sure they're top of mind. There's a lot of prep that goes in beyond that. But I think just walking with the idea, hey, This is about me, I know myself well, should be the beginning of learning to relax.

Susan:

And so there is a lot of prep to make sure that you can convey all those things, but they are trying to understand the person behind the application that somebody's going to read. This is the opportunity to see what it's like to be in a room with you in the classroom on the campus. So it needs to stay flowing in conversation. I would say this should not be a staccato Q&A. And if it feels like that, then you need to swing it back and forth. into a free-flowing conversation in some way. I was saying to Harold earlier, I lately have had a number of people who come in to interview Pep, and you can just feel them gripping the table. I've read all my application materials. I'm prepared for the questions. If I called you and said, hey, my daughter's going to be in your town next week. She's really interested in what you do for a job. Would you mind spending 30 minutes and having coffee with her? You would not walk into that coffee shop gripped by, what if she asks me a question I can't

Harold:

answer?

Susan:

It's really the same thing. They're talking about you and your experience. You have it in your head. You have an answer. It's about being able to convey it comfortably. And so whatever you do to calm down, I was like, whatever you do, if you meditate, do that before the interview. And the other advice I always give people is if you go into the interview committed to the idea that the person on the other side of the table is there to support you, they are there to help you get in. And I don't care. Some people are going to come to the interview and they're not going to be warm or they're had a bad day and the flow isn't going to be as positive and warm as you'd like right but if you remain committed to the idea that this person is on my side the way that you engage in conversation and respond is completely different and I think makes all the difference

Harold:

yeah no I think you're right and I think I think the other piece of that is kind of is really understanding how the interview is delivered because I think many schools will explicitly tell you that we're there and we're on your side right that's right absolutely we interviewed we interviewed Bruce Delmonico and Laura Rodman from from from yeah and Donald Levinson from in Yeah, and all the admissions officers basically that I've spoken to are like, we're just trying to get to know you. This is not an inquisition. And I think the schools where I think HBS is one where people feel like it's a quote-unquote gotcha interview.

Susan:

It's not. But it's not.

Harold:

It's just a different type of interview and you have to be ready for it. There's no one. We have Debbie on our team who did interviews for HBS and she can tell you. it is not it is not a it is not a gotcha interview right she one of the things that I really loved about like learning from Debbie over the years is how nervous she was when she used to deliver the interviews absolutely because she felt like it was important for those people to be prepared and she wanted to do her best for them she wanted to have done her homework for them she wanted to do a good job of listening so she could do her evaluations properly I love that that she was nervous for that that she was she was nervous about herself right because she was excited I'm excited for them. If you want to be one of our success stories, sign up for a free consultation with a member of our full-time MBA admissions team. Since we've worked with tens of thousands of applicants over the past two decades, we can give you our honest opinion on your chances and help you put together your very best application. That is not a sales call, but rather your first session with one of us for free. We can give you a profile evaluation, answer specific questions about the process, review your resume, talk about your school choices, and so much more. Sign up at MBAadmission.com slash consults. But the

Susan:

great thing, I mean, if we don't want to talk about HBS interviews specifically, often I tell people, this could be one of your favorite interviews because they have studied on it. Right? That's right. And all the work we've done for the last eight months, brainstorming, digging into your goals, digging into your background, this is going to be a rich conversation that you have been preparing for for eight months. Right? Your prep didn't start when we did a mock last week. Your prep started eight months ago when we started the

Harold:

application. And on honestly, how often do you have 30 minutes just to talk about yourself and your own dreams and what you've done and what your achievements have been? It's a very rare conversation, it's to say. I think another important thing to do to stay calm is, of course, to prep, but not to script. Because if you're scripting, as soon as the script veers one way and you're not ready for it, you have no safety net. You have nothing. And so, you know, it's like, okay, I thought about, I prepared two minutes on a time I experienced failure. Well, they asked about a time when I had a set back and it wasn't didn't quite fit failure it wasn't quite a failure and I gave this failure answer it didn't make sense so I'm making it up but whatever it is there's some nuance in the question and you are not ready for it and time you've encountered an obstacle whatever it might be and you're not ready for it and so you've you know I think I know especially as we're doing more stuff on Zoom I say to some applicants who I'm interviewing doing mock interviews I'm like I can tell you're reading I'm I'm certain and you are reading right now. Are you reading? Okay, don't do that. No script. You're not fooling anyone. Stop. Go in. You've got to get comfortable with who you are. You've got to get comfortable with your answers, and that will get you where you need to go. I

Susan:

also always tell people, one of the things that most annoys an interviewer, I think, is when you try to take the reins of that conversation from them. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, very good point. They listen to the first 60% of the question, and they go into their head. What am I going to say? I've got an inventory of things I want to share, and the personality ask question A and they deliver answers to questions A, B, and C. And now you've annoyed the interviewer and you've made the whole process more disjointed for them. So I'm like, this is just as much about active listening as it is about talking. Listen to what they want.

Harold:

And this is another like Debbie peeve, because she and I talk about interviewing a lot. She's like, sometimes people go even further than talking for the first five minutes and answering follow-up questions. Sometimes they so badly want to discuss something that they're not even listening to the question. They're answering a question that hasn't been asked. I really, really want to talk about how I was the captain of the football team. That is not helpful under these circumstances. You might get there. A lot of schools even say to you, have we covered everything? Is there anything you want? You might say, hey, we haven't covered the fact that I actually, something quite proud of, I think it speaks to my character, a captain of the football team. Fine! That's a great opportunity. But when someone says, tell me the time when you've led in your community, it's like, well, I kept the football team. Yeah, exactly. And also kept the football team when I was 16 years old. And I think that's it as well. I mean, these really are conversations that people frequently forget. These are conversations. They're meant to be conversations. The person on the other side of the table is mainly thinking, is this someone I would want to have on my team if I were still in business school? That's what we're really talking about here is, is it somebody that seems to be someone I can listen to, someone I can talk to, someone who I can actually enjoy time together, who we can solve big problems together. That's what they're looking for. And they're not looking for sort of any magic formulas. One other thing that I think people need to keep in mind is sometimes being a little bit nervous is okay.

Jeremy:

It's

Harold:

okay. It doesn't have to be perfect. They understand that you're nervous. And if it comes across in a way that isn't just omnipresent for 30 minutes to the point where you can't manage yourself, you know, people they shake a little bit, that's okay. That's okay. If you ease into it, maybe it even shows how seriously and important it is to you. That's right. You're excited. You're not nervous. You're excited. And that's really it. I think another thing also is it's not totally fatal to not know the answer to something. That's absolutely true. It depends how you manage yourself. If you don't know the answer and you go down some path and you start building a bridge and it doesn't make any sense and you're trying to Find your answer. That could be a disaster. But if you say, you know, it's a great question. I wish I had an answer off the top of my head right now. Could we come back to that at the end? I'm not optimal, but

Susan:

let's come back to it. And I feel like it's such an opportunity to show the flexibility in your thinking. Everybody's got four or five stories or occasions that are big things, right? They're the richest, most robust pieces of their background. If you look at those four or five things from multiple angles, that story can be used for multiple questions. That's right. If you don't just script it for one answer. Right. And sometimes you get a behavioral question that is a time when you don't have a time. Right, right. And it's okay to say, you know what? I haven't had that exact experience and here's why I think it hasn't happened

Jeremy:

to me. Right.

Susan:

Because this is how I approach XYZ situations. Right. You want to show the flexibility to be able to continue the conversation and think a little bit outside the box on any given topic.

Harold:

Right, right. And listen, I will frequently tell my clients, you certainly have to have in your back pocket something talking about a challenge, something talking about a team situation. Somebody talked about leadership. And the reality is the right example can fit all three. You know, part of what you're trying to do here is just express things that have happened in your life and what you learned from them and how you can bring them forward. Right. Yep. I think another antidote is obviously just being prepared with whatever's appropriate for that interview. So if it's a school that isn't reading your entire file, you know, it can help to... jog some memories and bring up anecdotes to read your entire file. But certainly, if they're just reading your resume and you know that, read your resume there carefully. Know what's on your resume. And this is the biggest, like the easiest avoidable faux pas that I find is, you know, like that line at the bottom of your resume where you offer personal interest to try to connect to someone, hobbies, personal interest. When you say, you know, my hobby is ice hockey, and someone says like, oh, you play ice hockey? I play too. When was the last time you've been playing? Oh, I haven't played in six years. Why is it on there? So if you leave it on there and that's the version they have, then you need to be able to say, you know, it's been a real passion when I've transitioned from playing in the last couple of years. I don't have the opportunities to play anymore. The ice times just aren't there for people who work, you know, six in the morning until 12 at night. I am still an avid fan. Whatever it is, just know to talk to whatever the information you provided them. You've got to be ready to talk to them. Talk to that information. Exactly. And also know the school So at the end of the day, if you haven't spent any time playing hockey, but you know you want to go to Tuck, you can say to them, like, part of the reason I want to go to Tuck is I want to join the hockey team. Yeah, I haven't been able to get on the ice as of late. I'm really looking forward to it. It's a super point. You've got to know the information you're provided. That person who, 99 times of 100, that person who's asking that question is based on a common interest. He or she is just... Yeah, they're trying to break the ice. They're trying to break the ice. I don't think you play hockey. I want to know what's going on here. They're just trying to walk along and break the ice. Yeah. Listen, Susan and I were laughing earlier in terms of some of these interviews, the expectation is actually, you know, probably lower than you think. Perfection's not necessary. I mean, I always joke, my neighbors are just walk and talk interviews in the sense of, can you speak English? Are you weird?

Jeremy:

That's my favorite Harold

Harold:

quote. That's really what we're talking about here. And I'm assuming most of you listening to this are speaking English and are not weird. So I'm immediately, you're probably going to do pretty well in the interview.

Susan:

And like little things like, and this trips people up a lot, I don't think in their daily lives, but sometimes in the business school interview, think about the level of minutiae at which you're speaking.

Harold:

I always

Susan:

say, provide the context so that this answer is completely relatable to me as a novice, right? So we always say, you want to start at the 10,000 foot level and then drop into detail as appropriate for the question. But most of the time, if somebody starts and provides good context and a clear answer at the 10,000 foot level that is thoughtful and relatable to me, I intuitively believe if you were thoughtful in that answer that you know the detail. It doesn't work the other way. If you start in the minutia and I don't have context and it's not particularly relatable to me, I don't immediately assume you understand it in a broader, more perspective

Jeremy:

way.

Harold:

And I think one other thing I tell applicants is to not open any door that you can't Shut up. Absolutely. No question about it. Sometimes people will just, they'll just say something as a throwaway and it'll invite follow-up. People pick up. Yeah, you know, I've always had a passion for X, Y, Z. Oh, really? Tell me about that. And you're like, well, I mean. No, I think that's right. Exactly right. Oh, yeah. When have you done it? I think that question about when, you really have to think a lot about that because that's a natural question to ask. Oh, you liked reading. You know, what was the last book you read? Yeah. You played hockey. You know, you were in a marriage. on when did you, I mean, even at that level, you at least have to be able to talk to, bring something to date, bring something up to the present because that's what they're really interested in, how you are today and how you're going to be next year when you join the business school. And then also, you've got to have, in the majority of interviews, you've got to have thoughtful questions for the interviewer. That's right, yes. And you've got to know who they are. You can't ask the same questions to an alum that you would to a professor, to a current student. Absolutely true. And like, some of that just comes down to how you're coaching your question like it's you know you're talking to an alum like how have you used the alumni network okay like okay it's like a like a B minus but saying like saying like you know I know that you've I know that you graduated two years ago I'm curious how connected you feel to your class and if you've engaged in any particular alumni events okay it's like it's like a little bit more thought you're further down the line with like hey this person's thinking right and so you know it's not like that's not like a grand slam They don't all have to be grand slams, but it's like, it's a little bit better than, certainly better than how you use your network. Right. And then you keep on getting more specific. For example, have you been a big participant of the Yale and Hollywood group? Right. Just the fact that, again, you interviewed Yale and then suddenly they recognize, hey, you've done some work. You understand how Yale has a presence in Hollywood. Right. Recognize what could be happening there. Right. And again, specificity is credibility. Right. And to get back to Susan's point, I don't know where that line is in terms of being sort of nerdy. hurting out on the details and at the end of the day not being able to pull it up 10,000 feet versus, well, some specificity in terms of I like eating, I like reading. It's like, that's not enough. You have to get something more than that. And I think the other thing is we're talking about hitting grand slams or being nervous. It's like, I sent an applicant the other day, and I don't know how you guys feel about this, but I said to him, look, if they ask you, I don't know, 15 questions, three or four of them can be, we hope they're all a pluses but three or four of them can be b's like like as long as long as overall the message is you know i'm thoughtful i can't be prepared yeah if if the rest of them are a's and a pluses that's fine you know like we've all conducted interviews in our lives and i'm people who are listening to this podcast have conducted interviews

Jeremy:

yeah

Harold:

and you know you've hired someone or you've given push someone onto the next round who hasn't crushed every single question absolutely do you want to um provide provide the listeners with some questions to ask.

Susan:

I always tell people that the most, the way I like to end interviews is to think of thoughtful questions, especially if it's an alumni interview, because it's different for the, you know, your audience, but especially if it's an alumni, think of an opportunity, give them an opportunity to warmly tell you about their memories. Most people that do this as an alumni only do it because they enjoyed the

Jeremy:

experience.

Susan:

And I think if you end on that warm note of them sharing their advice, their experiences from being there, somehow how that warmth transfers to how they feel about you.

Harold:

Absolutely true. Did you ever read Dale Carnegie's How to Make Friends and Influence People? Yeah. Okay, the entire book leads to the point, have people tell you about themselves. Right, for sure. You know, by all means.

Susan:

It shows interest and curiosity.

Harold:

Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of which, I'm going to tell you a few anecdotes about myself. Okay, very, very good. Are we going to get to some funny interview stories? Do we want to go there? Let me just throw out one. I had a client who was interviewed by someone in a swimming pool. The person was in the swimming pool and the person who was being interviewed, my client, was sitting on the side of the pool in a suit. And the person in the pool was in a bathing suit. That's insane. Yeah, that was insane. That was crazy. But I think it leads to an important point, which is that if your interview somehow goes off the rails in an inappropriate way, the schools don't be afraid of sharing that. That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely. I know... I remember one case during the financial crisis where someone, I think, I guess it was a devastating time. It was anxiety-inducing for this person. This person lost their job. Yeah. And it felt like their world was crashing down. And this person sat there through an interview and said to the interviewee, like, why would you say you want to go into finance? It's such a terrible place. Like, just sat there basically berating, like unloading on this. Right. And this person was devastated and was like, I'm never going to be able to get into Kellogg. Right. And we said, call the Kellogg admissions office. Tell them what happened. That's not the type of experience they want to have. And just say, I'd like another interview. And they did it. And the person got in. And the college admission committee actually said, we don't want this person interviewed right now. This person is just going through, obviously going through some stuff. Yeah, I also had a very similar situation. And again, the interviewer who was an alumni interviewer wasn't being nefarious. But the conversation went to talking about this person's religion. And really some fairly intimate questions. And again, it wasn't necessarily nefarious. but at the same point you know the interview was simply not appropriate right and this person called and he was re-interviewed and he ended up at another top

Jeremy:

school I'll just

Harold:

say that but I think I think the point is is that we we if you could if you could feel like someone could objectively say to you hey I had this kind of this kind of interview experience at you know you put your you as the applicants let me put yourself in those shoes the admissions director you say if you were to say like someone called me and said hey someone want to talk about my work religion during an interview, you'd say, okay, that's not cool. That's crossing an obvious line. If you said, someone asked me some tough questions, well, no, forget it. Someone sat there dumping on my post-MBA career. Not what you need. I think one other thing we should talk about before we wrap is there are also other forms of interviews, including video interviews, which often people feel like go off the rails, and they don't. They do It's like if you run out of time and you get cut off, that's not off the rails. It's cute. It happens all the time. Yeah, it's funny. It's maybe not cute. It's funny. If you are, again, nervous about it, it's not the end of the world. If you stumble a little bit, they know that this is sort of perceived, often not, but perceived high pressure, and they know that it's one shot. Which you should see as a benefit, actually, in a lot of ways. One shot is actually And what I mean by that, clearly you're not required to do preparation. Clearly they're looking at just the natural you. If they were looking for something else, they would actually, you know, give you the prompt ahead. Exactly. They would have been structuring things much differently. They're simply looking at the authentic you. So from that perspective, video interviews can actually be very valuable and in many ways can really shine the spotlight on the best self, if you will. Certainly one type of interview is the video interview, but then we also see another very unique interview with Wharton. And that's the Wharton team-based discussion.

Susan:

You know, I think what is interesting about the Wharton interview is that the focus of it for them is your personal behavior, right? To me, that is an EQ-focused opportunity to see how you function in a group. And what I tell all my clients is, I mean, you have to prepare your pitch. There's certain preparations you have to do. But I tell my clients, this is literally what you do every day. You walk into teams or meetings

Jeremy:

Yeah.

Susan:

And you figure out what needs to be done here to make progress. Yeah. What gaps need to be filled? Yeah. Who's in the corner not participating that we need to pull in? Right. This is literally what, there's almost no job from a business school applicant where they're not doing that already. Right, right, right. So exercise those skills that you already

Harold:

have. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. That's exactly what I tell my clients as well. You do this every day. This is who you are. The only thing you have to prep is one minute. Make sure you do that. But otherwise, you're ready. You really are ready for

Jeremy:

it. Right.

Harold:

Yeah. I mean, I think people get nervous for interviews in general. But I think when you think about that Wharton interview, I think also understanding that there are lots of ways to contribute to that interview beyond just shouting over others, which is a terrible way. Yeah, it's a terrible way. I mean, no one wants that. Don't go into the Wharton TBD and act like we do on this podcast. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, so there are ways to succeed by drawing in other people and saying, you know, we haven't heard from Harold. Or, Susan, I thought you had a really good idea in your pitch, and I just want to explore that, but then actually sincerely exploring it.

Susan:

Or being a synthesizer of different ideas that are on the

Harold:

table.

Susan:

What it's not about is airtime. It's not about having your pitch chosen.

Harold:

No, definitely not. I tell my clients, if you're lucky, your pitch won't be chosen, because then suddenly you're not going to have the spotlight on you and all of your knowledge. And it's also, it's not, I'm going to use a cultural touchpoint here that I really shouldn't be using because I don't know anything about it, but as far as I know, it's not the Hunger Games where only one person wins, I think. So here, we've had Wharton TBDs. The entire group has gotten in. They've been all our clients, and they've all gotten in. They don't have a quota where only one person from each group can get in. That's right. Listen, I think there are some other schools that have some really interesting interview techniques. There's certainly NYU, which is senior material, and then loves to talk about your pick six, which is essentially six pictures of yourself. And again, all you have to be able to do is explain why those are important to you. And then there's MIT. And MIT is somewhat unique. I think in some ways it is harder. But at the end of the day, again, the people on the other side of the table really just want to get to know you. I think it's really, once again, they will frequently tell us. They told us when we interviewed Donna Levinson, who was the Dean of Admissions at MIT. It's like they want to help you. They want to be your champion. And I think that's really the case for the vast majority of interviews where the interviewer really is looking to help you.

Susan:

Yeah, and probably the most important thing to remember and stay committed to in your own head

Harold:

throughout the interview. No, no, I think that's right. And I think that's a great place to wrap it up then. Okay then. Thanks so much for joining me on your podcast, Harold. Thank you very much. And if you play your cards right, there'll be many more. But thank you very much for Susan. Such a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it was really terrific. Okay. Do you want to learn more about your Target Business School check out OnTrack by MBA Mission where we have in-depth modules on all the top business schools covering everything from what makes them unique to how to tackle the application essays and short answers and so much more. You can also practice for interview and video questions all done on your schedule on demand. We appreciate your dedication to our podcast and we want to offer you 30% off any OnTrack subscription. Use the code MBAMPOD to get 30% off any OnTrack subscription. Check it out at on track.MBMission.com.