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The mbaMission Podcast
EP 74 | Financing Your MBA: Merit Scholarships and Financial Aid
Getting into business school is challenging, but PAYING for business school can be just as stressful for many MBA hopefuls. In this week's episode of the mbaMission podcast, Harold Simansky and Jeremy Shinewald sit down with mbaMission Managing Director Rachel Beck to discuss all things related to financing your MBA. They talk about MBA merit scholarships, financial aid, employer support programs, and more. They also discuss some of the common questions we hear from applicants about negotiating scholarship offers and the long-term value of an MBA. If you are thinking about applying to business school -- or eagerly awaiting admissions decisions from your target schools -- and are wondering about how to pay for your MBA, don't miss this conversation!
00:00 Welcome to the mbaMission podcast
02:50 How to pay for business school
05:58 How hard is it to get a merit scholarship?
08:08 Negotiating scholarship offers
12:11 Thinking outside the box
13:19 Factors to consider: Location, cost of living
13:52 Employer support
15:31 The cost vs. long-term value of an MBA
16:45 Second year scholarship options
22:50 Student loans
25:12 Getting a scholarship off of the waitlist
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The conversation begins when you get that first acceptance. At that point, you have to start thinking to yourself, okay, how do I actually pay for this?
Rachel:And I think a lot of um admitted students get very worried to ask because they think it's gonna make me look bad.
Jeremy:There's no harm in asking. Once you've been accepted, they want you to come. I do find that there are other channels that people don't even consider. Be in touch with the financial aid office. Ask them questions.
Rachel:I think a lot of applicants overlook how their employers can help them also. Is there any scholarship that you can give to me to, you know, secure that position and I'll come back and I'll work for one, two years?
Harold:And then if you want to do a startup, or then if you want to do something else, there's a degree of flexibility that you would not have had if you've not had not gone back to that firm.
Jeremy:With a little tenacity, you can make a significant difference uh in your in your ultimate bill.
Harold:She is a CBS grad with a journalism background and truly an expert in the industry. Today we'll be talking about merit scholarships, financial aid, and how you can actually finance your education.
Jeremy:So thanks for being here, Harold, as always, and thanks for joining us, Rachel Beck.
Harold:Uh Jeremy, thanks for being a a host on my podcast.
Jeremy:Yes, I always enjoy joining you on your podcast. Funny thing, so I'm talking to a to a client the other day, and he said to me, you know, I kind of just thought your job was podcasting. Like I didn't realize that, you know, a Rachel or a Harold or a Jessica or a Gavi or anyone else who's been on the podcast is actually taking clients. Like they said that there's some sort of he noted some study that said, like, that, you know, people who do media are like perceived to be kind of like distant and untouchable, like celebrities, dare I say. And so I'm just putting the word out right now that Harold Samanski is an actual consultant. He's not just, he's not a people have accused me of being AI, which I'm not. And I think people think that you're like media or you're media, but we are in fact uh a team of consultants. We help you.
Harold:You can give us a call, go to our website, and you can arrange for a 30-minute free consultation with me, with Rachel, with Jessica, with Gavi, with the other.
Jeremy:You can go to our site and you can evaluate every member of our team and decide who you want to have that that that conversation with based on their biographies and your your personal preferences. So um throwing that out there now, I might mention another podcast or two, so the word gets out that people can actually work with you. You know, you're you're that's right.
Harold:That's right. And and that's what you're doing. And they should want to. Exactly. They should want to, and that's what I enjoy doing too. I mean, listen, I'm built for podcasting, as we can all agree.
Jeremy:Oh, that's great. Okay, let's get to today's topic. Today we're talking about uh merit scholarships and financial aid. I I guess we can sort of break it down into categories. The first category, I would say, is just kind of the you know, the the the the package you get from the school. Like the most the most basic is you got in, here's your money. Okay.
Rachel:Or how about you got in, how am I going to pay for this?
Jeremy:Right. Okay.
Rachel:I I would I would say that's the place that most people actually start because there's like all this excitement about the application process, and I really want to go to these schools, and I've got my acceptances in hand. And then the next question that you have to ask yourself is can I afford this? Which probably should have been a question you asked at the beginning of the process, long before you took the GMAT or the GRE or the EA. But I find that a lot of people get to that borderline panic stage after they are in and it's real.
Jeremy:Right, for sure. Yeah. You got applicants who I think it seems like a, you know, like a like a dream, a goal, and the and then once you get in, I think the psychology is this is the road to riches. And so if I just get this MBA, I'll make this big leap in my career. And then it's like, oh, wait, there is a period where I have to pay for this. Um, and so you uh so you you get your application, and then most people who um are gonna get a scholarship are gonna get it with their with their acceptance. And for a lot of people, that's like kind of it. That's where that's where it ends. And that number, whether you're getting it, uh, whether it's merit or need based, is um often kind of like people, people get it and it's perceived to be like non-negotiable, and that's where people just end it and they're like, okay, I've got to fill the gap now. But I think there's there's a lot more. And it and it's and it's also it's kind of a black box, right? Like you don't really understand how that number was arrived at because there are all sorts of other levers, like how the school's endowment is doing, or uh, you know, how many, uh, how many uh, you know, other applicants they want to spread it around to that year if there are other worthy people. So I I guess this is a a long intro here, but you know, the the the first question is like you get that number like kind of like what do you do?
Harold:You can certainly use that as a point of leverage, as then you're talking to other schools. So if you have a college, a scholarship from school A and you actually want to go to school B, then by all means let school B know. Listen, here's who I have a scholarship from. I really do want to go to you, but we're all we're all big boys here. Right. And this notion here of like money is very important to me. So but give them the chance to match.
Jeremy:If you want to be one of our success stories, sign up for a free consultation with a member of our full-time MBA admissions team. Since we've worked with tens of thousands of applicants over the past two decades, we can give you our honest opinion on your chances and help you put together your very best application. That is not a sales call, but rather your first session with one of us for free. We can give you a profile evaluation, answer specific questions about the process, review your resume, talk about your school choices, and so much more. Sign up at nba mission.com slash consult. We look forward to working with you. And and applicants are usually like a little bit afraid to do that to Right.
Rachel:Well, I think we should almost go back a few steps because I get asked the question all the time how can I get a merit scholarship? Yeah. Right. This is a question that comes up over and over again on free consultations that we do with our clients. And the truth is, is the most competitive schools are giving out the least amount of money, if any, in merit scholarships, because they don't have to. If you're really eager to get a merit scholarship, you have to look at your own profile and the schools that you're applying to and really think about, you know, do I have a better shot at a merit scholarship at a school that my GMAT score is well above the median or my grades are well above the median, or I have experiences that are pretty terrific. So you have to factor that in. And you're not going, you're not going to be able to call up Harvard Business School and say, Indiana gave me, gave me a full ride. Can't you match that? Because the answer is no. And but Harvard Business School doesn't give out merit anyway. But the point is that you have to kind of know going into this process of where the merit comes from.
Harold:That's right. And that should really affect where you end up applying to. Because if a scholarship is really important to you, then you really have to think about okay, I have to apply to probably a broader range of schools than maybe I thought of, thought about originally because the NPB has suddenly changed with this idea here of Harvard Stanford Warden. Of course, those may be your dream schools. But then I tell people, okay, an opportunity to go to Wharton versus an opportunity to go to Columbia for free. What does your decision point look like?
Jeremy:Yeah, we have a member on our team, Melissa Merchant, who got into Harvard, Stanford, and Kellogg, and she took a full ride at Kellogg because the financial decision making was important to her. I've always admired that about her. Um, that she, you know, made a really thoughtful, pragmatic choice about her future and bet on herself in many ways. Um so, okay, so so you can, yes, if you want to, if you want to get if a scholarship is really critical to you, obviously apply more broadly. Um, recognize that you know the schools that you're hyper-competitive at maybe it may be more attracted to you, may try and woo you. Uh, and Harold already noted, you know, you can try to play one school off the other. And it's not a very dangerous game. Like I've I've never I've never heard of anyone like like if they're not rescinding anyone's acceptance, the worst they can do, say no.
Rachel:And I think a lot of um admitted students get very worried to ask because they think it's gonna make me look bad. And I'm like, don't worry, they don't have they don't have a bulletin board up with like Rachel Beck asked for money to match where she got at other schools, and now we might take away her acceptance. That is not going to happen.
Harold:Right. And there's certainly a bigger picture there. And what I mean is the tables have turned. Once you've been accepted, they want you to come. They're really watching yield. One way that they know they can ramp up yield is by, you know, giving you some money. And I think, Jeremy, just to get back to something you said, it is a very fluid process. Not only does it change year to year, but it even changed round to round.
Jeremy:Yeah, or or even moments where where the schools will say, you know, you reach out to school and you say, Hey, can you reconsider my offer? You know, you gave me $15,000. Is there anything you can do? And sometimes a school will say, you know what, we just we just had someone who just declined their their offer. That's what $20,000 just ended up back in the, or they probably won't give you the dollars, but um, you know, some money ended up back in the pool, we can give you another $5,000. Like there's no harm in asking. That's right. That's right. And that's really, I think that's that that's like something I think a lot of people miss that I miss when I was an applicant. I didn't, I didn't, I don't think I asked for anything. I felt so like lucky to be there.
Rachel:Exactly. I also think that a lot of applicants don't understand that the merit granting is not fair. Like it, there's no, there's no rhyme or reason to why certain people get merit and other people don't get merit. And I always go back to a story that I saw where I had a client who was the child of a hedge fund billionaire who got a full ride to a school based on merit, like a very generous merit scholarship. And I had another client who had gotten a full ride at another school, but really wanted this school. Um, came from an immigrant family. Parents were physicians, but ran a convenience store in New Jersey, lost the convenience store due to bankruptcy, et cetera. Um, but he really wanted to go to this school. And they said, nope, we're not giving you any merit pay. So it it actually, as the consultant, made no sense to me because this young man was terrific. And it didn't make sense to me why the hedge fund billionaire would be getting a full ride, but they wanted her for whatever reason because they saw they saw a real prospect for future donations from that family.
Jeremy:They might have been chasing a GMAT score, they might have been chasing female numbers in the class at that point, things that they might not be able to chase today.
Rachel:So there's no rhyme or reason. And often we're asked, like, well, how do you crack this? And the answer is you don't know.
Harold:Truthfully, you ask, and this is what I tell my clients all the time, just go out and ask. And then they'll come back to me and say, Um, thanks for pushing me to do that. They gave me an extra $15,000, or they gave me only an extra $15,000. I'm like, you just bought yourself a car. And at the end of the day, maybe it's a car that I would buy, not necessarily uh what others would buy, but the reality is it's a single email can yield a dollar.
Jeremy:I also had a client who was just very, very persistent uh at Kellogg, and he just kept, you know, they kept saying, you know, we'll we'll we appreciate your your asking. We'll take you into consideration when we when we know more about who's accepting scholarships and who won't. Dates back a few years, but um, you know, and he just stuck with it. He was just like, you know, I think by the time they they were like, okay, we have to award some financial aid if they know you a little bit, if you're being polite, if you, you know, are just kind of sticking with it, it you may actually get somewhere. So, okay, so there's there's the there's the package you're gonna get from the school, and I I refer to that as like an efficient market. It's like that's that's not where um any scratching and clawing can can necessarily help. And maybe you can play a school off another, one other, like we're talking about, but but everyone's in that pool. Everyone is kind of counting on that and only that. But I do find that there are other channels that people don't even consider. Absolutely. You know, like sometimes your your city's civic foundation will have discretionary funds. Your church, your synagogue, your mosque might have the the the rabbi, uh, you know, at your at my synagogue had discretionary funds where people I don't know how much it was, maybe $10,000 a year, where you where you could just write them a letter and say, hey, so if you can get a $1,000 that way, it can help. If you do that three or four times, it can help. And those are mark that no one else is in this case is writing my rabbi other than me, right? So that's why it's an inefficient market. And there's an opportunity, I think, to play in that inefficient market, but it just takes a lot of digging. And like, you know, some applicants don't bother because they think that the world just ends with their school.
Harold:That's that's right. And that's really when the conversation begins. The conversation begins when you get that first acceptance. At that point, you have to start thinking to yourself, okay, how do I actually pay for this? And then be aggressive in thinking about it. Yes, by all means, go and reach out to the school. By all means, go and and check with other sources, but then also think strategically. If I immediately want a scholarship that is gonna be actually very impactful, you should go to business school in a place that is much cheaper to live than in place that's much more expensive. University of North Carolina and Chapel Hill is uh gonna be a lot cheaper than New York, that's Boston or wherever else it is, Chicago.
Jeremy:Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, cost of living can can definitely drive like, yeah, you're you're basically saying let's let's look at the big picture. Like, not let's not just look at dollars. That's right. Because you can also just reduce your cost of living potentially as well.
Rachel:Yes, definitely. I think a lot of applicants overlook how their employers can help them also. Even though some um employers require you to apply in advance for sponsorship, that doesn't mean you can't go to your employer and say, you know what, I'd really like to return here after my MBA. Um, is there any scholarship that you can give to me to, you know, secure that position? And I'll come back and I'll work for one, two years. So don't overlook that as an opportunity.
Jeremy:One of my first clients did that. Uh he he went back to his employer. It was a growing, really exciting, growing financial services company that ultimately was acquired by another. And he was working kind of as a chief of staff for the CO or the CFO. And the guy just said, Yeah, we want you back. That'd be awesome. He was like, Great, you guys just paid for my education. That's and he went back and he enjoyed it.
Harold:Yeah. And listen, a lot of the consulting firms, some of the investment bankings do give you the opportunity to get a scholarship from them, for them to pay generally 100%, then you go back for two years. And I fully recognize that that is not a trivial decision to go back for two years. At the same point, though, after those two years, your life will look substantially different with no debt, with this already you've been able to pocket quite a bit of money for the being paid for those past two years. And then if you want to do a startup, or then if you want to do something else, there's a degree of flexibility that you would not have had if you've not had not gone back to that firm.
Jeremy:And even and even if you didn't come from finance and you're going into that field, you might get a signing bonus. Yeah. Um, and in consulting, you might get you know, some sort of form of signing and moving bonus and et cetera. And it kind of adds up to something.
Rachel:I think people see then the number, like when they they open the website and it's like, wow, it's gonna cost this much, but they don't do that factoring in that I am gonna get a nice signing bonus. I'm gonna work over the summer at an internship that's going to pay me. So the numbers start coming down a little bit. Not that they're reasonable, but they might be a little bit more tolerable when you start backing out those numbers as well. And and we've talked a lot about this. Like business school is an opportunity. And the opportunity is for 16, 17, 18 months up to two years, right? The a full-time MBA program. Live it, learn it, experience it. You don't want to nickel and dime yourself the whole way through because the part of it is the experience. And I think that's something very important to keep in mind. Obviously, you don't want to drown yourself in debt that you you can't climb out of it, but it's set up in a way that you should be able to manage that. And that's some and that's where you have to be honest with yourself.
Harold:That's right. And also it is a 50-year decision when all said and done. Most people's career at this point is going to be another 50 years. So you have to say to yourself, over the course of 50 years, what did it mean for me to spend an extra $100,000 on one school versus another school?
Jeremy:One other thing that we haven't talked about is that some schools will have uh a second round of like in your second year. You performed well in school. You uh you are seeking to enter this niche, and we have an alumni who funds uh an alumnus who funds a scholarship in this area. Or or even that can happen as part of the application process. Like, you know, you you won a full full ride at uh at Columbia, did you not?
Rachel:I had a I had a half ride. A half ride. Um, because I did a journalism fellowship for the first year, um, which I was very thankful for, which included a living stipend, which in today's dollars probably I couldn't live, but in yesterday's dollars we could.
Jeremy:Um But you were a journalist. And so it was a it was a journalism scholarship for you know, for someone with experience in journalism. That's sort of inefficient. There aren't that many journalists uh applying to school. And and so you you know, that was available to you. Was it awarded? Were you just given it, or do you have to apply to the five years?
Rachel:No, no, you have to apply for the fellowship and then you're accepted, and then you apply to schools.
Jeremy:And it still exists to this day, correct? It still exists, yes. So so that's that's another form, which is some schools, not all of them. But this is, I guess let me back up here. Be in touch with the financial aid office. That's right. Ask them questions. You know, when you get in, call them and say, hey, I got my award. Are there any other scholarships available that I can apply to? Because I know like Berkeley Haas, for example, has three or four scholarships that you can apply to as part of their application. One of them is from the individual who founded um, I think it was Power Bar or something like that, one of the one of the first uh uh, you know, sort of nutritional bars, uh, protein bars, whatever they be they became. And I don't know how much it's for, but it's it's a scholarship that's offered. You have to apply, you have to apply for it, you know, it within like separately from the actual application, you know, might be it might be a possibility for you. Some schools have like a couple of other scholarships that you can that aren't for everyone, they don't include within the application that could be available to you.
Rachel:So I think our point is is the work doesn't end when you get the acceptance. Like if you're really needing financial aid or any kind of aid, right? You've got to you gotta be very proactive. And that might be asking for money, that might be applying to additional scholarships, that might be actually picking up the phone and calling, which a lot of young people today are scared of. They think they can just dash off the email. But if you actually call and talk to someone, they might tell you something that they wouldn't respond in in the static email. So just keep that in mind.
Harold:Yeah, certainly on the other side, if a student makes a commitment to go into social impact, for example, then there are opportunities for some financial support.
Jeremy:At some schools, yeah. And and there are even instances, I think a lot of schools do this where students who are going to conventional, you know, MBA jobs and you know, private equity consulting. Um, you know, they'll contribute to a fund that will, you know, go to students who are that who are who are not going to into those areas. Um, you know, there also can be, yeah, they can be like bursaries and scholarships for people who are even working on entrepreneurial ideas during the summer. That's right. Exactly. Not just social impact, but just like, yeah, like we'll we'll fund, we'll fund you at a, we'll give you a stipend. It's not gonna be massive, but we'll give you a stipend, work on your entrepreneurial idea or go go work at this type of firm and we'll we'll help support you. Just keep you gotta get the whole picture. And not a lot of people do. They just they get that letter, they see zero dollars and they're sad, or they see twenty thousand dollars and they're like, okay, that helps a little, and that's the end of the story. And then as you can tell, there's so much more.
Rachel:I was gonna say a lot of times when a client's like, I only got $20,000, they're like, great, that pays for your New York City rent this year. And if you didn't have to pay for rent, like, wow, that frees up, you know, you you you really can't control your rent, like it's within these bounds, but you can control how often you go out to dinner, you can, you know, things like that. So I try to like play up the positive side of it because in my mind, any money is honey, right? That's important.
Harold:Yep. No, I think that's right. Listen, I just want to get back to one point here, which is this notion of there is scholarships available to practically everyone, but you have to find the right school. And depending on who you are, even if you go to a school that's numbered 10, 12, even 20, in we'll call it some rough ranking, and you get a full scholarship to that school, that is life-changing for you. And the reality is, is yes, top ranking is very important, but the entire equation changes again if you get a free ride to some school that will get you the job that you want. And there are examples of such schools. And do your three free 30-minute consultation with me, and I will tell you what they are. And there's the Tillman Scholarship.
Jeremy:Right. If you um are from certain countries, there are there are there are there are country-based uh sponsorships for a lot of Middle Eastern applicants, um, you know, other other countries. I mean, even the even the UK will send people abroad um or a Fulbright scholarship potentially for someone. Right.
Rachel:And and applicants before they even apply should seek out those. Like I believe in Germany and Poland there are scholarships that you can get money toward your MBA, but you have to apply as you're applying for the MBA. Like you can't get in and then apply for it. You're you get notified of that as you're in the application process. So I think our point is sometimes you can't wait until you have decision in hand. You have to put in these applications ahead of time. So you're in line.
Jeremy:Right. Um, and then and then also in addition to that, like I, you know, there are some random ones. Like I had a I had an applicant whose emplo whose parents' employer had a stipend for education for their kids. Like, again, you just gotta you gotta keep being creative. If it's important to you to graduate to graduate debt-free, like debt free is can be tough sometimes, but um, you know, or for for most people, but still, like if you can, you can make with a little tenacity, you can make an uh a significant difference uh in your in your ultimate bill. Um and then there is finally that's the other constant. There, there's there are student loans. You know, you can you can spend your personal resources and there are student loans.
Harold:If you are accepted at Harvard Business School and then you ask for a scholarship, they will send you a lot of information about a student loan because the reality is a student loan, the ROI on a student loan is very, very high for business school.
Jeremy:I I I saw something, I don't know how accurate this is anymore. It's a couple of years ago. The default rate on Stanford Business School student loans was I think they'd had one in 20 years. Like basically what it said is every single person who took out a student loan paid it back, you know, it it you're you're not gonna be it's that evidence would say that if you want to go to Stanford Business School, and I'm sure those numbers are similar for Harvard and for other top schools, um, they probably go down a little bit as you get outside the top 10, but are probably still comparable.
Rachel:A point I wanted to make is as you're filling out your paperwork for financial aid or anything like Columbia Business School in the actual application asks you, how are you going to finance the MBA? Which I think is the number one question I get for the Columbia application. People get very worried. Like if I answer this honestly, am I not going to get merit scholarship? And through my 14 years of doing this, I've never seen a correlation between what they put down and who gets merit. So people should know that. But you have to be honest. Like you, if you need the money to pay for school, then you have to be honest in your financial aid application of what you really need, what your assets are really worth, etc. There's no skirting it, right? This is you're applying for loans. So I think that's something important to keep in mind. There's a there is a lot to cover, and I think a lot of people don't really think about it until it's almost not too late, but like almost too late. They think it's kind of the doom and gloom. Oh, I didn't get the money I wanted. But there are pathways, don't worry. And by the way, when people ask and then they get money, it's like hitting the lotto. That's right. I had a client last year who had gotten into Macombs and UCLA with a full year scholarship. So we'd only have to pay for the second year. And he didn't get it for Darden. And a good point was he was going to the admitted students' weekend at Darden, which was his first choice. And I said, schedule a meeting with someone in admissions and make your case. And he did. And on Monday morning, he got the match to UCLA and McCombs.
Jeremy:And I would say one other thing, if you find yourself on the wait list or something like that, it's not like you can't get a scholarship. Like, oh, well, they they they probably have limited interest in me because I'm on the wait list. So I guess I'm not in scholarship consideration. No, they're still evaluating their class and they let you in, they'll evaluate you objectively for financial aid. It's like, you know, you still, you still have you still have have merit that they're accepting the class. Um, so you know, I've seen applicants who've been on the wait list and have gotten financial aid.
Rachel:I'm gonna give the counter to that though. Um, sometimes if you're on the wait list and you make the point during a conversation with an admissions officer, which happens a lot when you're on the wait list where you have the catch-up call. Um, if you say, I don't need, I don't need any aid, I don't need any merit, that can bump you. I had that happen this past spring where my client said, I can pay for this MBA. And and she did get in days later. So that can be a strategy also. I know we're talking about people who want to get money, but it also could be a strategy on the other side.
Jeremy:Right. And I think, I think one thing you you sort of alluded to already, although, although you said that you said the other thing as well. You said go when you're there, you know, go and enjoy yourself. But but you you can live frugally. Like uh, you know, I I I lived in such a frugal way when I was in school, and it's so comical in hindsight. Like I was like, I'm only here for two years. I'm not buying a dining room table or chairs. I'm just gonna have to give them away in two years. I had a bed and a shelf. I mean, it was ridiculous. I didn't go on the I love skiing so much. It's like my favorite thing to do. I didn't go on the ski trip either year. Like, these aren't major sacrifices in life.
Rachel:Or or you bring your lunch every day so you can go on the trips and do those kinds of things. Um, I was talking to a client last night about this exact topic. Um, she started business school and was very nervous about the cost of it all. Um, and I said, there are ways that you can save so you get to do all the fun stuff and you don't feel guilty about it at all.
Jeremy:Awesome. I think we've covered a lot of ground. I think we have.
Harold:Um, this is great. Listen, but my final point will be ask for money. It's too important. Go out there and ask for money.
Jeremy:I think we can just we can leave it there. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Thanks so much for uh for watching us. Exciting news! You can now access On Track by MBA Mission for free. Take our two-minute onboarding questionnaire to personalize your learning path. Choose the free plan, and you'll have unlimited access to our complete modules on MBA application timelines, standardized testing, your professional background, community leadership, school selection, and more. You'll also get access to select lessons from our brainstorming, personal statement, essay, resume, and recommendation modules. It's a great introduction to the on track platform and will help you jumpstart the MBA application process. Get started today at ontrack.mba mission.com.