The mbaMission Podcast
Welcome to the mbaMission podcast, where every week we discuss different MBA application components and give our expert guidance on everything business school admissions related.
The mbaMission Podcast
Ep 83 | Nontraditional vs. Overrepresented MBA Applicants
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What does it mean to be a nontraditional MBA applicant? What about an overrepresented applicant? Understanding these distinctions can make a big difference in how you approach your business school applications. In this week's episode of the mbaMission podcast, Harold Simanksy is joined by Senior Consultant Nisha Trivedi and Managing Director Harshad Mali. Harold, Nisha, and Harshad discuss the benefits and challenges of being either a nontraditional MBA applicant or an overrepresented MBA applicant, and the strategies that applicants in either category can use to stand out in their applications. If you're applying to business school and wondering how your background will impact your chances of admissions, you won't want to miss this conversation!
00:00 Welcome to the mbaMission podcast
01:43 Who are nontraditional MBA applicants?
02:46 Who are overrepresented MBA applicants?
05:00 Successful nontraditional business school applicants
07:50 Successful overrepresented business school applicants
09:39 Explaining: Why an MBA?
12:22 GPA and test scores (GMAT/GRE)
15:00 The value of diverse voices in business school
15:50 Advice for nontraditional MBA applicants
17:58 Advice for overrepresented MBA applicants
19:51 Managing the "unknown knowns"
24:29 Where should nontraditional applicants apply?
25:44 Final thoughts
Book your FREE 30-minute MBA admissions consultation with Harold or another one of our experienced MBA admissions consultants by filling out this form.
Learn more about onTrack by mbaMission, our innovative, on-demand MBA application platform, and take our two-minute questionnaire to receive your customized learning path.
‼️Use code MBAMPOD for 30% off any onTrack subscription‼️
Contact Us:
info@mbamission.com
Follow Us:
YouTube
LinkedIn
Instagram
I'm approaching this as someone with a non-traditional background and I'm thinking about business school. Um, sort of what are some of the steps I should take, Nation?
Nisha Trivedi:Really digging into, you know, what has led me to these particular career goals? How can they map those needs to a school's particular resources and also show what will they contribute to that resource themselves based on the experiences they have.
Harshad Mali:Bring in your insights. That's something that business schools like a lot. You know, people who have insights about life that trickle into business, those are things that uh one should not overlook. Run the race with blinders on, don't worry about who's running the race with you.
Harold Simansky:What does it mean to be a traditional versus a non-traditional MBA applicant? And alongside that, how do over-represented and underrepresented backgrounds impact your application? Understanding these distinctions can make a big difference in how you position yourself and tell your story. To help unpack this, I'm joined by longtime MBA mission consultants Nisha and Harshad, both have guided applicants from all walks of life and now how admissions committees evaluate, experience diversity, and unique perspectives. We'll talk about what makes a candidate traditional or non-traditional, how representation factors in, and how applicants can leverage their backgrounds, whether common or rare, to stand out authentically. If you've ever wondered where you fit in the admissions landscape or how to present your profile in the strongest possible way, this episode of the MBA Mission Podcast will give you clarity and actionable insight. I don't know about you guys, but invariably one of the first questions I'm asked on one of our free 30-minute consultations, which I encourage people to sign up for, is either I'm a non-traditional candidate, any chances for me to get into business school, or I'm an overrepresented demographic. Any chances for me to get into business school? So let's start off by saying, okay, Nisha, what even comes to mind when someone says a non-traditional candidate to business school?
Nisha Trivedi:Mm-hmm. Sure. So the first thing that comes to my mind is that business schools are really trying to build a diverse class. And so, you know, traditional, non-traditional, really they're, you know, what candidates who are successful in this process, you know, have in common, regardless of their background, is that, you know, they've been excellent, you know, in the the field that they're in.
Harold Simansky:Yeah, no, that makes sense. And someone may think a traditional candidate for business school is something like your classic investment banker, your classic consultant, I mean, in some schools, even someone, a PE associate or something like that. And to turn it around a little bit, so Harsha, when someone says an overrepresented demographic, who do they who are they talking about? What does that mean?
Harshad Mali:Well, I mean, that definition uh by itself is related to people who might be in the higher volume of the applicant pool. So that typically could be uh, let's say, the uh Indian applicant pool. And within that, then there are the engine engineers, and within that male engineers. So uh business schools do uh you know slice and dice uh applicant pools, and that then can become a heavily represented applicant pool. But uh to say that that's uh a death sentence for you is is the wrong way to look at it because the uh the demographics change, things change, the uh surroundings change, the industries change. Business schools create talent and they send that talent to different industries. So to say that you're from a non-traditional background, which is really heavily represented already, you know, in the past, uh, doesn't hold true in the future. Um, so uh that's something that applicants should be well aware of. Yeah.
Harold Simansky:Yeah, no, no, certainly. And what I also tell folks is listen, you may be an Indian engineer, male Indian engineer, or let's change demographics, uh, a Chinese woman, which happens to be a demographic that sends a lot of people to business school. It's I say to them, listen, but those people are accepted, right? It really cut it really cuts both ways. It's not just a lotter applying, but a lot are accepted.
Jeremy Shinewald:If you want to be one of our success stories, sign up for a free consultation with a member of our full-time MBA admissions team. Since we've worked with tens of thousands of applicants over the past two decades, we can give you our honest opinion on your chances and help you put together your very best application. That is not a sales call, but rather your first session with one of us for free. We can give you a profile evaluation, answer specific questions about the process, review your resume, talk about your school choices, and so much more. Sign up at nba mission.com slash consult. We look forward to working with you.
Harold Simansky:So, what has been some of your successes, either in terms of a non-traditional applicant who may have had great success, or an overrepresented demographic that may have had great success? What did they quote look like? How important was their demographic to the final decision, do you think? And just sort of what made their applications as successful as they were?
Nisha Trivedi:Um, so yeah, first I'll say that uh definition of non-traditional is broad, right? If we're defining traditional as um, let's say invest in banking, consulting, um, private equity, as you mentioned earlier, applicants from India and China, you know, that still leaves a lot of other people, right? And so, you know, when I think about, you know, non-traditional, um I think again about how much schools wanted to build a diverse class. But, you know, for example, I've worked with candidates in marketing, which is still pretty heavily represented in the pool. Um, but let's say if we were to say what's truly non-traditional, I've worked with people who are completely outside of the business school, right? Like, you know, school teachers, um, you know, for example. And I think what's helped them succeed is that first, you know, schools are looking for, again, I can't emphasize this enough, a diverse class. You know, they've been able to show their excellence in that field. They've been able to show the progression throughout their career, um, how they've made an impact, and how they've shown leadership even outside of their job description, how have they taken initiative in certain ways in their workplace? Um, that has, of course, led to their success and that has led to their, you know, recommenders, um, also outside of the business field at that point, you know, to really give them a strong and detailed endorsement.
Harold Simansky:No, no, that makes sense. So, who's one of your favorite examples, Nisha?
Nisha Trivedi:Sure. So le t's say a few years ago I worked with, yeah, a um, you know, a school teacher who had all sorts of leadership experience. She was an amazing teacher, um, but really took initiatives to, you know, make her workplace better and to make sure that students, you know, her students really felt included, right? They were in a, you know, a rather tough environment. Um, and, you know, outside of work, still had time to um, you know, pursue, you know, a couple of really meaningful hobbies that she was passionate about. And I think all of that came through in the application. And, and this is critical um for all applicants, but especially if you're, let's say, outside of the field of business, she was able to communicate the rationale for pursuing an MBA.
Harold Simansky:Absolutely. Absolutely.
Nisha Trivedi:How did her prior experience, even though it would be a complete career switch, how did her prior prior experience uh motivate her to pursue this new path? And what transferable skills uh will she bring to the new path? And how can the school help her fill in the rest? And because she was able to connect those dots effectively, I think that's what uh ultimately led to her acceptances at multiple top programs.
Harold Simansky:It's sort of your classic why an MBA, why now, and why that particular school, which is required of really any successful candidate. Well, maybe it's even just a little bit more important for folks who are coming from a non-traditional background. Uh how about yourself, Harshot, as some as far as somebody who maybe again overrepresented non-traditional that was very successful, and maybe some of the reasons that that was.
Harshad Mali:Yeah, so uh I mean, I worked with all kinds of applicants, but when it comes to overrepresented applicants, the one thing that I have seen uh such applicants succeed is bringing out things that the adcoms would be really surprised to see. Something that is out of the box, uh something that is not so tied with uh their national origin or their work. Um these are the things that have helped uh my overrepresented clients do well in their applications. So a simple thing as uh, you know, looking at uh ways to convey things outside your resume. Um and the essays are a great way to convey that. Um, for example, HBS essay, you know, talking about the curiosity essay. Well, throw in things that the adcom is going to be really uh impressed with, um, not only in addressing the prompt, but learning about you in ways that they would not know through the other aspects of the application, like the essays, the recommendations, the resume. Um so that's the thing that really separates uh separates um, you know, uh the successful overrepresented applicants from the unsuccessful ones.
Harold Simansky:No, that makes sense. And it just makes me think about the Harvard Business School question, the business-minded essay. And clearly, if you're coming from a non-business background, that becomes a really important essay. And part of the reason for that is you can finally sort of get to that existential question: why does the teacher want to go to business school? Well, there must have been, they must have started thinking about business in a sophisticated way. Um, uh Nisha, I'm gonna pick up a point that you really implied here, which is this notion of here, what are you gonna do with it? I mean, in many ways, for a non-traditional candidate, it's okay, you're coming here, but what are you gonna do with it? It's it's really that career path in my mind just becomes extremely important that I joke with folks. You have to say something that is both achievable, but also aspirational, with this idea here of you're not going to business school to become an astronaut. At the same point, you're not going to business school to be to you know to run the paper route or whatever it is. Yeah.
Nisha Trivedi:Exactly. I always say the goal should be ambitious, of course. That's why you're applying to a top MBA program, yet a realistic outgrowth of your career to date, so that the admissions committee can understand, well, what sparked your interest in an MBA and is this path logical? So to give you an example, um, I, you know, have a real passion for healthcare and healthcare advocacy outside of work. So I end up working with a lot of um healthcare candidates. And so I've worked with, you know, those who have been on the provider side, like doctors, nurses, therapists who want to be on the business side of healthcare. And they speak in their applications about, you know, what they've observed in the space, you know, the trends, um, how they feel they can best make a broader impact. And so they are chartering a path that's ambitious, it's a career swith, but the admissions committee is really able to see, well, where did this path come from? You know, how well informed is this candidate, you know, in terms of, you know, what they're getting into, and, you know, can they achieve it? And, you know, they in their case, they made uh a strong case for this path being uh attainable and logical, and one where they would really shine given their past skills and experiences.
Harold Simansky:And one where they'll need business.
Nisha Trivedi:And where they'll need business school in order to really fully achieve that path and and gain the business acumen in the form of analytical skills, you know, leadership skills, uh, strategic thinking ability being honed, you know, they'll be able to gain that from business school so that they can, you know, really make the impact that they they want to make.
Harold Simansky:Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that certainly makes a lot of sense, which sort of reminds me of the fact that a business school curriculum is quite broad. And at the end of the day, if you can also explain in a fairly granular way what piece of the business school curriculum is going to be most valuable for you, that's also where you start showing yourself as being much different. Uh, clearly, if you come in as a consultant with a consultant toolkit, you need one thing. But if you come in with somebody with zero business background, you need another thing. And this really speaks to the need for business school applicants to articulate to a very specific level why business school is so important, what skills you're going to develop and where those skills take you.
Nisha Trivedi:Exactly.
Harold Simansky:Absolutely. Yeah. So, from the perspective of non-traditional or again, overrepresentative, how does that manifest itself in terms of GPA or in terms of test scores? Are those sorts of things looked at differently, depending on where you're coming from? Or is it sort of this blanket hit the average, hit the average GPA, hit the average GMAT at that point?
Harshad Mali:Well, there's no formula for that. I think people who come from the non-traditional backgrounds uh clearly have their work cut out, honestly, especially on the test score. And what I have seen uh often is business schools might give you some slack. Clearly, you have to clear a certain threshold in the quant and verbal sections of the test court. But beyond that, um, you know, uh people from non-traditional backgrounds uh do get a fair say. Now, the thing about them is again, as Nisha was saying, you want to convey uh your worth to the school, but also why you want to pursue business school. Uh, okay, if you're in social impact, what in the business school world is going to be so useful for you that you're gonna absorb and go and do great things in your career? So uh these are the things that business schools look at. And look, business schools want to grow their brands. I often say this. So if someone comes in and maybe doesn't have that good of a of an academic uh component to the application, uh, there are still ways to overcome that through other pieces. You know, show your leadership, uh, show what your goals are. Are they ambitious enough? Um, what are you gonna get out of the school that is uh gonna be so important down the road? Um also bring in your persona, your personality, bring in your you know, accomplishments, uh, bring in your insights. That's something that business schools like a lot. You know, people who have insights about life that trickle into business, those are things that uh one should not overlook. So I would say the non-traditional applicants should not feel uh disheartened if they are maybe weak in certain aspects of their application, or you know, if they feel like they are away from the main crowd. I think uh business schools understand that, and no one is going to explicitly say that, but business schools are not gonna overlook these applicants.
Harold Simansky:Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, listen, I think that's right. Uh, you know, it's just thinking in my mind uh this notion here of okay, what does it mean to bring a different voice? And I'm just thinking about a teacher that I worked with, and again, it is non-unusual for us to work with folks like this, uh, many of whom start with our free 30-minute consult. But uh who come the first question that we have that they always ask us is, okay, um, sort of what do business schools make of me as a candidate? Well, let me throw it back at somebody, which is ed tech now, as we all know, is a very popular space. It is an incredibly growing industry, particularly outside the United States. Well, well, think about it from a business school perspective. You could have a tech person in the class talking about ed tech, or you could have a teacher in the class talking about the impact of ed tech. And you can imagine for them, wow, having a teacher in the class, that is an important voice that they may not usually get at that point. And so again, from the perspective, okay, I'm approaching this as someone with a non-traditional background, and I'm thinking about business school. Um, sort of what are some of the steps I should take, Nisha?
Nisha Trivedi:Yeah, I would say, you know, really take an inventory of the various experiences you've had and dig deep into the motivations, you know, behind business school. Clearly it's something you gave a lot of thought to already. But I think, you know, really digging into, you know, what has led me to these particular career goals, right? So, you know, going back to that example from healthcare, you know, maybe someone on the provider side has understood, you know, the role of technology in really elevating the patient experience, you know, not from a high academic level, but being on the ground with patients. And that is invaluable. And so to really dig into that in the application process, particularly, you know, in the essays and the interview, is really going to be important for helping um business schools understand what they bring to the table in terms of the MBA experience itself, as well as, you know, afterwards in that role that they're aiming for. Um, and I think the other is identifying those schools that are the best fit for them, right? There are a lot of, of course, top business schools, but you know, they have different, you know, offerings, different resources. So what do they really need, you know, these candidates in order to achieve their goals? And how can they map those needs to a school's particular resources? That's right. And also show what they contribute to that resource themselves based on the experiences they have.
Harold Simansky:Yeah, no, it certainly makes me think about Yale, which uh not that long ago, maybe five years ago, absorbed something called the Broad Institute. And the Broad Institute or Broad program was a really a program to train leaders in education. Leaders, whether it's school superintendents or whoever it it was. So this is Yale School of Management sitting, you know, a block away, a foundation focused on training sort of the best and brightest in the world of education, particularly public school education. What do you think they'll think of a teacher applying? Obviously, it is just something to be very excited about at that point. Absolutely. Absolutely. Definitely. So, Harshad, the usual question, okay, someone comes to you and says, Harshad, I'm so worried in terms of like they mess see a thousand of people like me. Uh, what are some of the things that you know make clear to people?
Harshad Mali:As far as uh clarifying things to people, I tell them not to look at the crowd. You know, run the race with blinders on, don't worry about who's running the race with you. You will know the outcome after you know the race is done. Uh, but until then, give it your best. I think that is a key thing that I have done all my life myself. So why not uh issue some of that guidance to uh people in the overrepresented group as well? But really, uh again, uh digging deep into who you are. That's something that I really like to hone in on. Um, I like to bring out the unknown known side of people. Yes, why? Yes, people don't know a lot of things about them that they know. You know, they're deeply hidden inside, and I try to elicit those things out of them. And that's what separates you know great applicants from the okay ones, in that uh there's a personal side uh to every application that needs to connect with the professional side because who we are at work is uh is really uh a result of our upbringing, uh what our personal values have been, what our brain has taught us. So I always try to delve into these things, and that's what um makes my overrepresented clients different. I'm not saying they're successful all the time, but it is. Sorry. Absolutely, but at least they get a fighting chance at an interview, and if they do well in the interview, then clearly an admin.
Harold Simansky:Right. No, definitely. And let me pause here just to say I've also used the term unknown knowns, which I think is terrific and is something that people should always have in mind. Uh for Clients with whom I've used it or consults with whom I've used it, I have stolen it verbatim from my friend Harshad. So I would like to take credit for that, but I take none. So so from that perspective, uh, how about some unknown knowns niche that you sometimes to see in some of these, again, less traditional candidates, folks, that honestly you don't bump up gates very quickly.
Nisha Trivedi:Sure. Um, I think that, you know, some of the, I think, you know, some of the unknown knowns are, you know, how um, you know, how how will the school you know see them in terms of, you know, one, who else is applying? Because I was, you know, like Harsh had said, I try not to, I try to get my clients to not focus on that, right? But we don't know, like, oh, maybe they'll have, you know, many nurses this year, maybe they'll have absolutely zero, right? So that's that's unknown, but it is known, I would say, that, you know, they're probably going to be, you know, underrepresented in the class. So, you know, they should really embrace um that uh that unique background, you know, if they have it. Um, and then I think a big thing is that, you know, we talked about uh test scores GPA before. And one question that the school is going to ask of all applicants, but they might have a particularly eye on what we might call non-traditional applicants, is, you know, can they handle the work? Because the MBA curriculum, you know, particularly the core curriculum that's uh generally at the beginning, is very quantitatively analytically rigorous. And so has the candidate brought enough evidence, you know, even if they might not have the highest test score, or maybe they didn't take a ton of quant classes in undergrad, or maybe they're not constantly, let's say, building models, you know, in their professional life. You know, have they demonstrated the ability to succeed in the program and beyond? And so that's definitely what one thing I help um, you know, all candidates do, but particularly those who might fall into that non-traditional realm, is to, you know, demonstrate as best they can uh their abilities and to, you know, bolster their profile with additional classes and um other measures as needed.
Harold Simansky:Yeah, I think that's a very important point, which is this notion here for some people, non-traditional or overrepresented. Applying to business school may in fact be even possibly multi-year, certainly of maybe a longer process than others. Because, and Nisha, you actually um were very clear about that in the sense of you may need as a someone who has no math background, has not worked in math, has not done analytical things, you may have to create that alternative transcript that we talk about, whether it's additional courses, HBS Core is a great one, MBA math is a great one, math for management is a great one over at Berkeley Haas, but that may be an important part of it. I think what we're also seeing here is this notion, too, of uh you also can't go to business school and say, I've had this great epiphany, I now want to go to business school. I mean, that also doesn't particularly work. I'm a teacher, I don't particularly like my salary. I figure, hey, I'll go to business school. That that's not a um that that won't take you very far.
Nisha Trivedi:Yeah, and it requires some advanced planning, just like you said, right? Especially if you need time to hit a score that you feel reflects your abilities and to take that additional coursework as needed. And, you know, just as importantly, to really reflect on your career goals to see is an MBA right for me? Which ones, you know, and how do I make a case for uh my post-MBA career goals based on what I've done so far?
Harold Simansky:Yep, yep, definitely. I once had a client actually, also a teacher. Like I said, we work with a lot of teachers. Um, environmental activism was always sort of in the, you know, a sub-theme of his life. Uh, he was very proud of when I spoke to him that he was actually the teacher in charge of composting at his high school, which was great. But that really wasn't going to be enough to set him up to study sustainability in business school. So, really, the strategy we took is okay, let's keep on bolstering that. So, we took an online course. He got a certificate in sustainability. He really deepened his involvement. He almost became an expert for a nonprofit, honestly, in the world of composting, which means more than one thinks, as I was uh as I was made aware of. So rather than him applying year one with just liking composting, he applied year two, again, certificate in sustainability, deeper thinking for his application, getting to know the schools that would be great for sustainability, getting to know other, like the unknown knowns in terms of maybe what his past looked like, to then create a candidacy that said, hey, this guy must be in sustainability. And the reality is business school is a great way of getting him there. Are there any business schools in particular that you think more that look more favorably maybe on those folks who are the defining as non-traditional applicants?
Nisha Trivedi:I honestly think they are all very open to it because they all have a similar goal, which is to build a diverse class. Um, and they're all looking for future leaders. They're all looking for people who want to make an impact, right? And so with those commonalities, I honestly think they're all, you know, very open to it. Um, I think it's just, you know, what I tell candidates um is to, to the extent that they're comfortable, to apply to a range of schools, right? Some candidates just say, you know, I want to get into Harvard, Stanford, or Wharton. And if I don't get in, then I just won't go. And, you know, I respect that. But I think if somebody is committed to entering business school, you know, in the following year, then I definitely encourage them to put together a list of reach schools, target schools, and safer options that they're still genuinely interested in. Because, you know, some schools might absolutely embrace their background, others they might not move forward for reasons that are not completely in their control. So I think that's why, you know, it is really important to diversify your portfolio, so to speak, for both traditional and non-traditional applicants.
Harold Simansky:No, no, that that truly makes sense then. So, what we're gonna tell folks who give us a call, our clients certainly, is this notion here of put aside the idea that you fall into an overrepresented demographic, an underrepresented demographic, whether you're from a non-traditional background or traditional background for the purpose of business school, instead think about these unknown knowns. What are those pieces of your background that really lend themselves to attending business school, adding value to business school and then really explaining to business schools why you need an MBA, why you need it now, and what are you going to do with it? And obviously, those are questions that we help clients with every day. So by all means, give us a call. We'd love to speak to you.
Jeremy Shinewald:Exciting news! You can now access OnTrack by MBA Mission for free. Take our two-minute onboarding questionnaire to personalize your learning path. Choose the free plan, and you'll have unlimited access to our complete modules on MBA application timelines, standardized testing, your professional background, community leadership, school selection, and more. You'll also get access to select lessons from our brainstorming, personal statement, essay, resume, and recommendation modules. It's a great introduction to the on track platform and will help you jumpstart the MBA application process. Get started today at ontrack.mba mission.com.