Ep 84 | Insights From a Former Stanford GSB Admissions Committee Member

The Stanford GSB is the most selective business school in the country, admitting only 6-8% of applicants each year. So how can you stand out in an incredibly competitive pool? In this week's episode of the mbaMission podcast, Jeremy Shinewald is joined by Katy Lewis, mbaMission Executive Director and former MBA admissions reader at the Stanford GSB. Katy shares valuable insights into the GSB admissions process, discusses the ways in which applicants can truly stand out, and explains what applicants tend to get wrong about Stanford admissions. If the Stanford GSB is your dream MBA program, you do NOT want to miss this conversation!

00:00 Welcome to the mbaMission podcast
01:59 Experience on the Stanford GSB admissions committee
05:55 Breaking down the Stanford GSB admissions process
09:18 How to stand out: The importance of recommendations
10:56 How much do your GPA and test score matter?
12:04 Are small mistakes deal-breakers?
14:21 Comparing application rounds
15:35 Dual degree applicants
17:20 The admissions consultant perspective 
21:16 What do applicants get wrong about the admissions process?
22:06 Do you need to be an entrepreneur to get into Stanford?
27:55 Advice for Stanford GSB applicants

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Transcript

Welcome to the mbaMission podcast

Katy Lewis 0:00

You want to intrigue the admission reader with your essay.

Jeremy Shinewald 0:04

And then you want to blow them away with your recommendation. What should I be for each school? You should be the same thing. You can't be like a finance guy for Columbia and then an entrepreneur for Stanford. Like, there's gonna be there are gonna be so many disconnects with your abilities and skills.

Katy Lewis 0:16

You never want to play to the school's strengths. Don't try to be someone you're not.

Harold Simansky 0:33

Ever wonder what happens behind the scenes once your Stanford GSB application is submitted? In this episode of the MBA Mission Podcast, the very first of the new year, Katie Lewis, who has served as part of the Stanford GSB applications evaluation team, offers an ethical, transparent, detail-rich look at how applications are read and scored. Drawing on her insider experience, Katie explains what truly matters in evaluation intellectual vitality, leadership promise, and personal distinctiveness. She discusses how GSB readers are trained to value context, authenticity, and emotional connection, and why the most compelling applications are those that feel genuine rather than polished. Katie also debunks common myths about industry bias, GPA cutoffs, and essay tone, offering actionable advice for telling your story with clarity and credibility. For applicants aiming high, this episode delivers rare insight into what distinguishes a standout Stanford application grounded in honesty, nuance, and respect for the process.

Experience on the Stanford GSB admissions committee

Jeremy Shinewald 1:37

Well, what a treat today. We have uh the most selective school in the world, and we have someone who has been in the position of reading those applications. My longtime friend and colleague, executive director at MA Mission, Katie Lewis. Thank you for being here. So uh we're here to, in some ways, to talk about your experience on the inside of the Stanford GSB. So I I mean, I guess first of all, just how did you end up how how does one become a Stanford Admissions reader? How did you find that rule and how how was the experience in general?

Katy Lewis 2:04

I found that role. I I was at a point in my career of trying to get back involved in education. I'd served on the boards of a lot of high schools, and I'd helped a professor-teacher class at the Haas Business School, and I kept wanting to be involved in business school, so I checked the other local school, which in my case was Stanford, and I noticed they were advertising for a seasonal admission reader. And I thought, well, that's not a bad way to get somewhat involved, and it didn't seem like a heavy commitment. So I became an admission reader at Stanford. That sounds like an easy job, but you're actually carefully scrutinized to do this. I had to go through several hurdles of qualifying for this job. The first was explaining why a Harvard graduate wanted to work at Stanford, which fortunately, since Kirsten Moss was the assistant director at the time, and she herself had gone to Harvard, was not hard to do. To even get past the first hurdle, I had to read three admissions cases, reach a decision on them, and hopefully come out with the right decision in their eyes. Then I had to return and read, I think it was 10 to 15 files. I spent the whole day there, go through the same process. Unfortunately, I guess I did it right again. Essentially, what they wanted to make sure was that I was likely to be calibrated with the team.

Jeremy Shinewald 3:32

Right.

Katy Lewis 3:33

So Stanford hires for seasonal direct, they hire people with MBAs who have worked. They're hiring people who are like the people they're admitting. It's a full-time job rounds one and two, and then you don't work in round three.

Jeremy Shinewald 3:47

Right. And I I think there's this perception. Well, there are two perceptions, maybe that maybe that counter to each other. There's a perception of Stanford is a very, very laid-back school. Um, and then there's the perception of most admissions committees as being these kind of like stern, smoky rooms, uh, and and and also I guess maybe that's I don't think people think of Stanford as the GSB as a smoky room necessarily, but as, you know, a school that's rejecting 93% of the applicants, um, you know, having uh, you know, being a little bit more like rejection-oriented. What was your disposition? What was how how did you evaluate a file? Um, what was your like literally your demeanor as you're going through an applicant file?

Katy Lewis 4:29

Let me just give a little context first. The the admissions team at Stanford is amazing. They're very passionate about what they do, they're very passionate about the values that Stanford represents and that California represents. These are people who really do want to identify people who change their company, change the world. And so they're very idealistic and very committed to what they do. And so uh yes, they're rejecting 93, 94% of their applicants, but that's just a function of the numbers of applicants. It's it doesn't mean that they're critics. Um yes, is it hard to choose and get it down to that list? Yes. Or get it down to that so few people. That's the hard part of the job because you're definitely turning down amazing people to get there.

Breaking down the Stanford GSB admissions process

Jeremy Shinewald 5:22

Right. If you want to be one of our success stories, sign up for a free consultation with a member of our full-time MBA admissions team. Since we've worked with tens of thousands of applicants over the past two decades, we can give you our honest opinion on your chances and help you put together your very best application. That is not a sales call, but rather your first session with one of us for free. We can give you a profile evaluation, answer specific questions about the process, review your resume, talk about your school choices, and so much more. Sign up at nba mission.com slash consult. We look forward to working with you. So let's talk about that process. You're, you know, getting the proverbial stack of files. Like, like how like how does this, how does this um how does literally the what are the nuts and bolts of the process?

Katy Lewis 6:07

The day after you submit, everything you've put into your application is uploaded into separate files under your name. And you access those online. Those files are frozen. Nothing can be added to them. That's why you can't submit a test score later or a letter later. It's never gonna get. And the reason they're frozen is independent people are reading that file for the next three months, and you want to make sure everyone's reading the same thing. So the minute I when I would read, I'd read usually 16 applications a day, sometimes 20. I had only 30 minutes per application. I would open up the file, I would read through those eight things essay, reclamation, short answers, you know, everything in 20 minutes and write up an evaluation online. Move on to the next client. 20 minutes. 20 minutes. Could not, I never had more time than that. 10 minutes to do to do the write-up. It was all done online. And then I moved to the next client. I could only, I would rank each file, you know, on a just, you know, accept, not accept, etc. I could only write accept or which meant or admit, which meant interview, on one out of eight. So I had a quota, which I could not exceed. What's difficult about Stanford, to go back to your first question, is when you read eight applications, there are three or four extraordinary people in that group. Any one of them you could take.

Jeremy Shinewald 7:35

Right.

Katy Lewis 7:36

And I had to choose one. So there's a subjective factor. I only did the first, I was a first reader. Every application at Stanford is read two times by independent people. Um and it takes two admits or admit minuses to get an interview.

Jeremy Shinewald 7:54

So when you're reading this, I mean is it as simple as is it scientific or is it as simple as just feeling good about an applicant, reading, reading their file, you know, obviously seeing the data and and determining they can do the work, but it's both.

Katy Lewis 8:05

It's it's scientific in the sense that you're filling out an evaluation sheet where you have to comment on the make a ranking on the on intellectual vitality, the first criteria, then you have to make comments about leadership on the second criteria, and then anything what's called distinctive ads, um, which means special factors that that really make this client attractive. So it it's it's quite qualitative. Um, it's very thorough. And then you write up a whole paragraph about about the applicant. Um I, you know, this was I did this some time ago at Stanford. I don't know if they have the same process now, but judging by how slowly their invites come out, they probably do.

Jeremy Shinewald 8:49

Yeah.

Katy Lewis 8:52

Well, you never know. I could do the first read in week one, and it they might might not get picked up for a second read until week 10.

Jeremy Shinewald 8:59

We all have those applicants who are sitting there saying, like, well, there's a there's a week lay the week left, like it, like they couldn't possibly And then they hear. Yeah.

How to stand out: The importance of recommendations

Katy Lewis 9:07

But the nice thing about it, I I just am very impressed with the incredible care that Stanford goes to it. And they're being very, they really want to give everybody a fair chance.

Jeremy Shinewald 9:18

So you know that Stanford is evaluating your intellect intellectual vitality, your uh distinctiveness, your personal leadership potential. Explain us how that can come across in a you know, memorably in a in a recommendation, in an essay.

Katy Lewis 9:33

The ideal sequence, if you're an applicant, the sequence you want, and this is what I strive for with my clients, you want to have an essay that intrigues the reader. The essay can't be encyclopedic, the the essay is short. You want to intrigue the admission reader with your essay, and then you want to blow them away with your recommendation. That's the sequence. In my view, for a school like Stanford, and I imagine this is true of Harvard, where you have so many highly, highly qualified applicants whose metrics and pedigrees are the same, very often the recommendation is the deciding factor. And that's why I roughly think it's 60% of the process. Our director of admissions at that time used to say he could open up an application, read just the two letters, and admit that person on the spot without reading anything else. But he could never do the other, he could never read the essay and the resume and admit someone. Right. So essentially the reason for that is these schools are looking for leaders, and the recommendation is the transcript of the leadership. So that's where, in my opinion, you really get the sheer impact of this applicant.

How much do your GPA and test score matter?

Jeremy Shinewald 10:54

Right. You know, you applicants always trying to index for that extra point of GPA or extra 10 points of GMAT or you know, point of GRE. Like, were you ever making a choice on the basis of GPA or GMAT?

Katy Lewis 11:09

No, the you basically, this is not a math school. This is a a business. You want to know the applicant can do the work. I actually had one client who had done very well on the SATs, and he got a 770 on his GMAT. And he retook it a month later and got a 780, and then he retook it and got a 790, and he showed it to me. He was thrilled. And I looked at it and I said, This is a bad look. A top business school does not see that as a good use of time. That it's this is this is not like getting into an IIT in India, right? Where the very top grades get in, or getting into Singhua in in China. Right. You need to have show you can do the work in the school, not going to be an embarrassment. Right. And yes, if you have a higher score, that's nice, but don't waste your time.

Jeremy Shinewald 12:04

And as a reader, uh again, sort of trying to dispel a bit of a myth, if you have found if you had an applicant uh, you know, misspelled uh uh you know, typo, misspelled a professor's name, was that was that the end of the game?

Katy Lewis 12:16

Well, in fact, uh there are also hilarious misuses of words. You know, there many clients are writing in English as a foreign language. There was we had posted a lot of the really funny comments that we saw. Uh no. You if it's throughout the application, it's a little more of a concern. But minor problems, no. I mean, it it business schools don't sweat the small stuff. What about what about the opposite? You know, overpolish? Non-genuine applications are really bad. That perfectly written essay from a non-English speaking applicant who doesn't speak well in person, that's a deal breaker.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:00

Right.

Katy Lewis 13:00

That's that's working with the wrong kind of consultant.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:03

Right, yeah, for sure.

Katy Lewis 13:04

I hate to say it.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:05

Yeah.

Katy Lewis 13:05

I in fact, I often have this talk with my clients who do not speak English perfectly. I work with many international, and I I will not change the way they speak. I won't clean it up. I I'll correct their misspellings, but I'm not gonna if they're gonna sound Russian when they interview, they're gonna sound Russian in their essay.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:26

Yeah, like the idiosyncrasies of how they express themselves are important. If you drop an article before, you know, before a you know a noun that's just matter. It's just leave it in. Yeah.

unknown 13:36

Yeah.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:37

Yeah, you've got to do that. Otherwise, it just it starts to sound disingenuous, or yeah, for sure. Or now AI. Yeah, exactly. AI, AI overpolishes it. It it adds the layer of genericism that you just you don't need. Like you take you take us you take an essay that has uh you know personality, you put it through AI, and it basically systematically removes the personality from the Trevor Burrus.

Katy Lewis 13:57

Well it turns it a tell-naught show.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:59

Yeah.

Katy Lewis 14:00

Part of what it does. So it's it's um yeah, you have to be very genuine. That you these schools are admitting leaders. They know business students or expect business students aren't terrific writers. Right. It's not.

Comparing application rounds

Jeremy Shinewald 14:12

Yeah, they're they're trying to get like trying to get the essence of your personality, not get it something that's like they can, you know, put in the New Yorker as a piece of short fiction. So uh, you know, you talked about getting a quota, like one of every eight. Did that vary from round? Were there were the did did you get any any instruction second round? We were swamped in first round, you gotta go to one of nine, one of ten.

Katy Lewis 14:31

Anyway they but it we seem to always be growing, so if anything it got worse.

Jeremy Shinewald 14:38

Was there any it's there were no direction from round to round? Like applicants stress over this so much, like, oh, is it too late? I applied in the second round.

Katy Lewis 14:46

Oh, there's a definite difference in applying rounds. Um, if you're overrepresented, and that could be by your industry, consultant, banker, or your ethnicity, Indian, Chinese, uh, you should definitely apply in round one if you can. And the reason is very simple. They when the school decides on that group, they will be filling two-thirds of those quotas.

unknown 15:10

Right.

Katy Lewis 15:11

Overrepresented groups mean these these groups are being capped by the business school. So if you apply in round two, you're duking it out for the remaining third of that category. And so it's you're just better off applying in first round. Now, if you're not overrepresented, if you're a one-of-a-kind applicant, it doesn't matter which round you apply in.

Jeremy Shinewald 15:35

Did you think did they give you um you know dual degree applications that you had to read? Did you have to treat those differently?

Katy Lewis 15:42

I had a lot of dual degree applications. Um certainly you read the dual degree essay, uh, but you're not, you know, if they're applying like to the law school, you're not reading the law essays. Um, they're not treated very differently. The uh, you know, that's not one area where you do make a difference is if couples are applying. You know, it's very very often an applicant will indicate they're applying with their significant other or spouse. At Stanford, that was an issue because we are 3,000 miles away from most other business schools, except for Berkeley. And so the you can't like go to two schools and commute very easily. That was either a pro or a con. If you're both strong, it's a pro. If one of you is strong and one of you is weak, you've got a single signal to them whether you're willing to be considered separately.

Jeremy Shinewald 16:38

Right.

Katy Lewis 16:39

Like willing to commute.

Jeremy Shinewald 16:41

Right. Or neither of you will get to invite. So then there's always the applicant who's like, well, we don't we don't want to damage our chances, so we're gonna note in there that we don't have to go to school together, that we're willing to accept our fate. And then it's like that happens, and they're like, well, now what do we do? We kind of want to go to school together. So you kind of have to make that choice wisely and actually think about how comes.

Katy Lewis 17:01

I talk to clients about this very seriously because it ahead of time, because you you just have to be aware of it. And it's not the end of the world to commute. I mean, most people find they don't see each other much during business school anyway, even if they're at the same school. So, but it's I do talk to people about that.

The admissions consultant perspective

Jeremy Shinewald 17:19

Right. So having sat on you know, on the reader side, and then as a consultant, I mean, just talk about how that changed your perspective and how you're how different your experience was.

Katy Lewis 17:30

Well, as you probably remember, it was awkward. I found it hard because that the minute I switched to the consulting role, which I wanted to do because I'd helped my daughter get into business school and some friends, and I really enjoyed it. I realized I was being too critical of the people I was working with. I was seeing all the flaws. And I all of a sudden had to have a mindset change. I go, wait a minute, I am coaching them, I'm supposed to empower them and enhance them. Once I made that mindset shift, it was way more fun. I mean, I've just got to say it was a lot more fun. But it is different, it is a different role, and and it took me a while to get used to it and it to realize that I was not the gatekeeper. I was the person trying to expand opportunities for this person. And so it it you know, I made the shift and frankly like it much, much more than turning down. I mean, one of the things that was very frustrating at a school like Stanford was you were every time I admitted someone, I was turning down seven others and breaking their hearts. Right. And and I couldn't write a letter to them and explain why. You know, so it's I just found that I felt better as a human being.

Jeremy Shinewald 18:47

Yeah, I mean it's funny because I I I rem I remembered the period you were talking about, sort of like just the first couple of weeks where you were you were struggling, you're like, oh, I've got to make a bit of a transition here. I remember talking to you once about it. I remember where I was.

Katy Lewis 18:59

It was really it's like a light bulb went off, and I thought, okay, I get this. Yeah. And then I loved it. But but the it's it's just and that's one thing I counsel anybody who joins our team who has admissions experience, I talk to them about it. Yeah. I say, watch out.

Jeremy Shinewald 19:13

Yeah. And it's funny because like I feel like we've we've had a lot of over the years, many admissions directors, officers who wanted to join our firm. And it's it's sort of been heartbreaking to turn some of them down because you know that they'd be, you know, help to attract clients and clients would want to work with them, but like it's a very different skill set. And some of them have just lacked the ability to express themselves creatively or lack the ability to connect in the same kind of way or or to coach. Like, coaching is different than evaluating. It's totally different. It's totally different. And you can evaluate a lot of people and still not be a good coach. Um, and uh, you know, that's like I don't know, it's probably a million analogies, but like not every athlete is is ready to make the leap to to being the you know, to being the coach of the team. It's just uh just a

Katy Lewis 20:00

It's a very different job, although there is a carryover. I do think having worked in admissions helps me see how holistic the application is, um assess chances of people that other people would think are unlikely. You know, because one of the things Stanford did that are made me so proud was we have a section called distinctive ads. We gave a distinctive ad to typical immigrants. Immigrants, you know, California is an immigrant state. And we had many students who moved here, didn't speak English in grammar school, barely went to a community college, he barely got into a four-year college for two years. And they thought, oh, I don't have a chance at Stanford.

Jeremy Shinewald 20:45

Right.

Katy Lewis 20:46

And it was Stanford, and I think all business schools, to their credit, are really, you know, philosophically committed to giving laying leveling the playing field for those people. So there's a lot you're doing that's very inspirational in this job. And I find that I'm able to often pinpoint those applicants and help them get in in a way that, you know, someone who doesn't have that admissions experience might feel less confident.

What do applicants get wrong about the admissions process?

Jeremy Shinewald 21:15

What what's uh what's something that applicants just get wrong about admissions officers, just get wrong about the process, you know, when they're looking from the outside, that there's all a bundle of nerves. You know, what do you think where do they just completely misplace their focus or energy in this pro in their assumptions about the process itself or the people we're evaluating?

Katy Lewis 21:35

I try to explain in that this is just a business school.

Jeremy Shinewald 21:38

Right.

Katy Lewis 21:39

This is not like your ultimate evaluation in life. Right. You know, this is not God.

Jeremy Shinewald 21:43

Right.

Do you need to be an entrepreneur to get into Stanford?

Katy Lewis 21:44

This is a business school. And and so I try to keep them grounded and I encourage them to look at other business schools, and particularly if you know, because I just tell them flatly, it's a long shot. Stanford's a long shot for anyone. Just look at the numbers. Yeah, you know, I can't, you know, you can't do much better than that. You know, I think that people are afraid to be themselves. Many people come to me and say, Well, I really want Stanford, so I'm gonna say I want to be an entrepreneur.

Jeremy Shinewald 22:13

Right.

Katy Lewis 22:14

Or I'm gonna say I want to go into tech.

Jeremy Shinewald 22:16

Right.

Katy Lewis 22:16

That's the worst thing to do. You're playing into, I mean, Stanford's up to its neck in entrepreneurial and tech applications. They'd rather you were from agriculture. Yeah. I mean, they they're there are fields they don't have. So you never want to play to the school's strengths and be someone you're not. Yeah. It's really important to just say, okay, this is who I am, this is what I want to do, and these are the programs in your school that are going to help me. It's it be genuine.

Jeremy Shinewald 22:45

Yeah. You know, and in the book I wrote, The Complete Start to Finish Guide to MBA Admissions, which is now available for free on our website. Uh, and uh it just updated actually, just went live today, the day of recording is the new the new update. I used to have um this quote at the end, um, which is no longer on the Stanford website, but which I I really liked. And I I think we might even still reference it as being on the website, uh still reference it as being historically having been on the website. But and I I'm not gonna get it precisely right, but it was it was from the it was from the admissions, it was from former admissions director Derek Bolton, and then it was just attributed to admissions. Yeah. So it's now it's just sort of was it was then it just attributed to admissions, then it was ultimately, I think, removed for whatever reason. But it said like, because we wanted to get to know who you are, resist the urge to package yourself in a th in the way you think we would like you to come across. It was like such um such attempts simply blur our understanding of who you are and what you can accomplish. I think that's pretty close to what was written.

Katy Lewis 23:43

That's one of the biggest mistakes. It's really uh um, and yet many people do that.

Jeremy Shinewald 23:49

Yeah.

Katy Lewis 23:50

They try to set market themselves.

Jeremy Shinewald 23:51

I love when an applicant says to me, I'm applying to Harvard, um, Stanford, Wharton and Columbia. Like, what should I be for each school? You should be the same thing. Like you're exactly you can't be like a finance guy for Columbia and then an entrepreneur for Stanford. Like, there's gonna be there's gonna be so many disconnects with your abilities and skills.

Katy Lewis 24:09

Well, I I always start with my clients, no matter what schools they're applying to, we start with the Stanford, what matters to you most and why. That should never change. Yeah, that you are one person, it's the best essay question in the business, in my opinion. And I make even my clients who are not applying to Stanford answer that question. Right. Because if you're looking for leaders, you want to know what's driving them, and that gets at what's driving them.

Jeremy Shinewald 24:37

Right.

Katy Lewis 24:38

So it's it's just very it's a business, you know. Harvard used to say, just simply tell us who you are, what you want to do, and why you want to do it. It's a very genuine, straightforward experience. Just lay it out. There are no gimmicks, there's no, there's nothing you need to do that's not genuine. And it's you know, if I have a an accountant from a foreign country who's very prosaic, not at all creative, he's gonna write an essay that sounds like him.

Jeremy Shinewald 25:11

Right.

Katy Lewis 25:12

You you just have to be who you are. If if you've gotten this far being who you are, don't mess it up.

Jeremy Shinewald 25:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Katy Lewis 25:20

Don't don't try to be someone you're not. It it's it's either gonna work or there's another school that's one of my favorite clients of all time.

Jeremy Shinewald 25:29

And his his essay, his What Matters Most essay is in our book of What Matters Most essays, which is available on our website. Um and he took a serious risk. I mean, he he wrote about how about he wrote about about truth. And like, yeah, that's something like a lot of people can write about. Um but he he he wrote about it like his first paragraph. You can look up, it's under the the essay under Lukash, it's slightly disguised, it's not a fellow named Lukash. Um, but you know, he wrote about how he was such a man of science that in his in his very religious country he felt it critical to be true to himself, to have his name removed from the baptismal book, to, to, to, to declare himself to be an atheist in his religious country. And it was like definitely a risk. And we talked about it as a risk, but it was so true to who he was, and everything else flowed from that. Like he talked about how how he, as an as an equity research analyst, called that a fraud because he he was he was so certain that the numbers that they were presenting could not be accurate. His research had proven that you couldn't have margins like that or revenue like that or revenue growth or something. And those he he had one or two other moments of he talked about he picked the toughest advisor in his PhD uh program because that person was going to be the hardest on him and give him the truth and push to be his best. And he connected these themes in a way that was so sincere. And yes, he took risks, but it was just so fundamentally true to who he was. There was, I mean, there was no aspect of pandering, of course, with someone with a story so frank. Um, and it was just, I was like, wow, this is binary. Like they're either gonna get this or they're not. And they did, you know, and and Harvard didn't, and Wharton did, and you know, just the way it was.

Katy Lewis 27:12

Yeah, no, it's it's really important. I've I've taken a lot or supported my clients and taking a lot of those risks. And it's it's it's really, it's it's actually is to the school's credit.

Jeremy Shinewald 27:25

Yeah, yeah. I was I that's exactly right. When he got admitted, I was like, good for them.

Katy Lewis 27:29

Exactly.

Advice for Stanford GSB applicants

Jeremy Shinewald 27:29

Good for them that they saw this, good for them that they they knew that like you weren't a rabble rouser, you were just someone who like really had a strong core level of conviction, and you it just it was like deeply empowering to you. And you know, yeah, it was a little bit of a risk, but he took it and he was again so true to himself. He's like, I I have to take it because this is who I am. He's like, I don't want to pretend to be anything but who I am. That's what I'm writing about. So I've gotta live this. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so what let's before we wrap up, if you have if there's like one area of emphasis or one piece of advice that you're gonna give to applicants, what's it gonna be?

Katy Lewis 28:05

I think that's very hard. I mean, I obviously have lots of pieces of advice, but you cannot dial your way into this school. You can't dial your way into Harvard. So it's so I think it's really important to be realistic, make your best shot at it, shoot for the moon. You know, I've I've had many people where we both agreed it's a real long shot and they've gotten in. I think it's it's really important. Frankly, the best advice I would give, which I'd give to anyone, is step back, see yourself in perspective, realize this is just a business school. You can probably achieve whatever it is you're saying you want to achieve many different ways, and uh go into it with that in mind, realizing this is one up one door, there are other doors.

Jeremy Shinewald 28:54

Right.

Katy Lewis 28:54

And and then give it your best shot. Uh another thing I do, and this is a sort of a humorous ending, the don't underestimate the value of human contact with the admissions committee. And I'm gonna give two short examples. One, I had an athlete who was six foot seven, who was very successful athlete. He he didn't want to bother to drive two hours to go to this you know, mission session. He said, What do you think I should go? And I said, Well, what do you think I'd do? So he ended up going, and it was a rainy night, so it was not many people attended. And the director of admissions from Stanford was there who loved sports. They hit it off, and this guy, my client, actually wanted to go to Harvard. He ended up going to Stanford. Then I have a second example, which is even more fun. A Chinese immigrant client who came here with his mother. They were so poor he quit high school and helped her run her ceramics company. He then went back, got his GED. Finally went to Berkeley when he was 26 to 27, graduated with a four point. I think actually he was older than that. 27, 28. And he graduated finally at age 28. So he called me and he said, Do you think I'd be a good deferred applicant to Stanford? This guy was a character. He just jumped off the Zoom call. And I said, huh. I said, you know, this would be a really good question to ask Stanford. I he lived in California. I said, why don't you go down to an admission tour? Have the tour, which would go to the admission session with you, and introduce yourself and ask them this question and tell them your situation. Because I knew, since Stanford valued this immigrant path, that if they met him, he got in. And and I said, ask them whether you should apply deferred or regular. Right. They said apply regular, he got in. Right. He got in right away. Right. And it I knew the minute they met him, this would happen. And don't ever underestimate the impact of a personal contact.

Jeremy Shinewald 31:15

And by the same token, don't go running down to the admissions committee trying to make your connection. You've got to like organically. Yeah.

Katy Lewis 31:22

It's gotta be organic.

Jeremy Shinewald 31:23

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. This has been great. I feel I feel I hope that applicants uh who are planning GSB have watched it. My sense is this will be one of our more popular videos.

Katy Lewis 31:33

I'm afraid of buying.

Jeremy Shinewald 31:36

Uh thanks so much.

Katy Lewis 31:38

I don't know whether it'd be popular or not, but I don't need a lot of calls.

Jeremy Shinewald 31:42

Well, you can still have a free half hour with Katie. You can have one with me, you can have one with my co-host, Harold Samansky. Um, we always enjoy meeting applicants. We love people's stories.

Katy Lewis 31:51

I love talking to people. Yeah, I actually love doing free consultations.

Jeremy Shinewald 31:54

Yeah, you meet so many fascinating people. There's rare jobs. I mean, is there any other job where you in a week you can meet 20 people from around the world who are just who just have each have their own amazing stories? It's just great. It's amazing. Yeah. Thanks so much for joining us. Exciting news! You can now access OnTrack by MBA Mission for free. Take our two-minute onboarding questionnaire to personalize your learning path. Choose the free plan, and you'll have unlimited access to our complete modules on MBA application timelines, standardized testing, your professional background, community leadership, school selection, and more. You'll also get access to select lessons from our brainstorming, personal statement, essay, resume, and recommendation modules. It's a great introduction to the OnTrack platform and will help you jumpstart the MBA application process. Get started today at ontrack.mba mission.com.