Ep 88 | Exploring the EMBA

In this week’s episode of the @mbaMission podcast, the team takes a deep dive into Executive MBA (EMBA) programs and how they compare to part-time, full-time, and mid-career MBA options. Jeremy Shinewald and Harold Simansky are joined by Senior MBA Admissions Consultant Julie-Anne Heafey to unpack who EMBAs are designed for, what makes their admissions process unique, and how experienced professionals should evaluate fit.

Together, they explore key considerations including career stage, leadership experience, employer support, testing requirements, time and travel commitments, family impact, and long-term career goals. The conversation also addresses common decision points, such as when an EMBA makes more sense than a part-time MBA or a one-year immersive program like Stanford MSx or MIT Sloan Fellows, and why thoughtful planning around logistics, finances, and narrative is essential for success.

This episode is especially valuable for senior professionals weighing whether an EMBA is the right next step—and how to approach the process strategically and confidently.

00:00 Executive MBAs: A Major Commitment of Time and Resources
01:28 What Is an Executive MBA and Who Is It For?
03:03 When Do You Actually Need an EMBA?
09:20 Time Commitment, Employer Support, and Family Buy-In
11:06 Location Matters: Choosing the Right EMBA Campus
14:29 EMBA Career Outcomes: Staying vs. Changing Roles
17:12 Cost of an Executive MBA and What’s Included
18:38 Testing Requirements: GMAT, EA, Waivers, and Thresholds
23:17 Age, Seniority, and “Am I Too Early or Too Late?”
27:40 Application Strategy: Goals, Essays, and Interviews
33:23 EMBA vs. One-Year Mid-Career Programs (MSx, Sloan Fellows) 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Executive MBAs: A Major Commitment of Time and Resources
• 1:28 What Is an Executive MBA—and Who Is It For?
• 3:03 When Do You Actually Need an EMBA?
• 9:20 Time Commitment, Employer Support, and Family Buy-In
• 11:06 Location Matters: Choosing the Right EMBA Campus
• 14:39 EMBA Career Outcomes: Staying vs. Changing Roles
• 17:12 Cost of an Executive MBA—and What’s Included
• 18:38 Testing Requirements: GMAT, EA, Waivers, and Thresholds
• 23:17 Age, Seniority, and “Am I Too Early or Too Late?”
• 27:40 Application Strategy: Goals, Essays, and Interviews
• 33:23 EMBA vs. One-Year Mid-Career Programs (MSx, Sloan Fellows)

Transcript

Julie-Anne Heafey: 0:00

The executive MBA is pretty big commitment of time and resources. They want to know that you've kind of baked into your plans the travel of it all.

Jeremy Shinewald: 0:07

The key is you have to be able to say, look, I can walk into your classroom and seem like a mature professional who's got something to contribute.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 0:15

It's designed to help you level up in your career overall.

Harold Simansky: 0:18

EMBA, you're building leaders for tomorrow. I think that that's really it. In today's episode of the MBA Mission Podcast, we're diving into a topic that more and more professionals are asking about. The Executive MBA or EMBA will explore who the EMBA is right for, how it compares to a traditional full-time MBA and a part-time MBA, and what makes EMBA admissions unique. We often hear from experienced leaders who want to elevate their impact but cannot step away from demanding careers. The EMBA can be the perfect solution, but it is not a one-size-fit-all path. To help us unpack it all, we're thrilled to welcome MBA Admissions Senior Consultant Julianne, who has guided countless EMBA applicants through this process and understands exactly what programs are looking for. Whether you're weighing the EMBA against a full-time or part-time MBA, or you just want to understand how the admissions process works, this episode will give you the insight you need. Julianne, very frequently, when I have somebody call me about an EMBA program, sort of what gets thrown into the mix is, well, is a part-time program better for me? Or sometimes they'll even start thinking about a full-time mid-career program like Stanford MSX or one of the Sloan Fellows program. So I guess the first question is, what's the difference between them and how do you think about it when you when you talk to that client who, simply put, may not be so aware of what one is versus the other?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 1:56

The difference between an executive MBA and a part-time or full-time MBA can really vary. I I would say a couple of things that matter are um, you know, whether you're going to be part of a cohort, right? I think that's one of the biggest things that you're coming, uh, that you're coming at. Part-time MBA, you know, you can sort of start that and leave it as you need to. But if you're going to join an executive MBA, you're committing to a specific program with a very clear start and end date and a cohort of people that you're going to be going through that experience with. I'd also say, you know, you have to be pretty senior, you know, you have to have some sort of responsibility for resources, or you need um a budget that you're overseeing. There they want people with real responsibility, which you might not need with a part-time uh situation.

Jeremy Shinewald: 2:51

Yeah, and I think it when when you think about it, I would say the EMBA um student is, you know, has that experience that you mentioned. And sometimes they're even willing to give that benefit of the doubt to the MBA, who might have no management experience. Almost they're they're betting that you can get to that place where that EMBA currently is.

Harold Simansky: 3:07

Right. But then that is the tension, right? By the time you're ready for an EMBA, maybe you don't need an EMBA. When people call us and saying, oh, I really want to explore EMBA programs, really we start thinking about, they should start thinking about, is it something I need? And then Julian, why do they even need one?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 3:24

Yeah, I mean, I think there are a number of reasons that you might need one. Um, one of them would be um you've kind of capped your progress at a certain place at your company. You're often a technical manager or um engineering manager of some kind, financial manager, and maybe you've got a lot of expertise in in trading or investments or something like that, or um uh managing software engineers. But if you want to take on more strategy of the business or something like that, um it's kind of a necessary thing for you to level up in terms of some of your other skills, your soft skills that an executive MBA would help you do. Um, I've definitely had clients in that situation, a lot of them, particularly here in the Bay Area. Um, we get a lot of people who are uh really high up in their jobs in Silicon Valley, but they're capped in some sort of engineering role. So it's a really great way for them to expand their opportunities and expand their ability to manage all the people around them and move their organizations in a in a new direction. Um, I think another example of why you would do that would be your organization changed around you. Maybe there were some mergers or acquisitions going on, or your company had grown around you. I worked with a woman here who was applying to the Wharton San Francisco program who was working at a fintech company, and they had done a huge acquisition, and she needed to kind of level up to take on those responsibilities and have kind of the credibility and the oversight to be successful in her role. So that's another way that they uh might consider it.

Jeremy Shinewald: 5:02

If you want to be one of our success stories, sign up for a free consultation with a member of our full-time MBA admissions team. Since we've worked with tens of thousands of applicants over the past two decades, we can give you our honest opinion on your chances and help you put together your very best application. That is not a sales call, but rather your first session with one of us for free. We can give you a profile evaluation, answer specific questions about the process, review your resume, talk about your school choices, and so much more. Sign up at nba mission.com slash consult. We look forward to working with you. You know, I had a client, one of my very first clients, who uh he was a head bond trader at one of the big banks. He just he just wanted to go because he wanted to look at his kids and say he had a second degree. It was just, it was just intellectually important to him, personally important to him. Uh, you don't get that many people like that. You, you know, it's it's a it's a big commitment. Um, but it's it is it is a real one. I I think another kind of kind of individual, um, a good friend of mine actually uh went because he his degree was in the liberal arts and he went into his family business maybe a little bit unexpectedly, and the family business grew. So, to your point about that growth, and he suddenly was running a big business, and he was like, I sort of owe it to myself, to my family, to go and be an educated manager. I didn't I didn't imagine myself and my company, sort of both of us growing into growing into this world and felt like he needed to do it. So there are probably a couple of others, Harold Smith.

Harold Simansky: 6:29

Listen, I frequently see it as being very binary. In some ways, you're gonna find people who candidly are looking to get their gold star on the resume with this idea here of maybe they're coming from somewhere. For whatever reason, they either didn't do great in undergrad, or the undergrad again, it's quite variable, but it may not be considered a top-tier school. So this is a great way to sort of sort of get on your resume, whatever it is, you know, Warden, uh MIT, whatever it is. That then the other piece of it, and again, it can be quite binary, it's I have reached a point where I need to really develop those skills I don't have yet. And I it's not clear to me when I'll get them or how many years it will take to get them.

Jeremy Shinewald: 7:10

To your point there, the the the of the prestige, there's no you know, no star on your on your transcript on your resume that says EMBA. Like if you get a Kellogg executive MBA, it says MBA. And so um, you know, it's that's right.

Harold Simansky: 7:28

Um that's right. And it's very hard to throw out a resume that has Kellogg Audit Warden on it, MIT on it, and that's listen from a purely practical perspective, your career is going to be another 30 years or whatever it is. So to have a resume that then looks different after the MBA than it looked like before the EMBA, I think is significant. So, but let's get back to skill development, Julia.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 7:51

Just to uh jump on your point about credentials, I mean, I think one thing to be careful of if you're considering a part-time versus an executive MBA is that the executive MBA is a pretty big commitment of time and resources. Um, part-time MBAs are way more flexible. And so one of the things that's really difficult for um executives who are rising in their organizations is to find time to kind of really, you know, uh make room in their schedule to kind of go to a fixed place at a fixed time. These things are often happening on the weekends, but it might start on Fridays. So you might not be at work on that Friday for certain programs. They want to know that you're committed to do that and that your employer is behind you uh and backing you to make that commitment of time.

Jeremy Shinewald: 8:40

In terms of that, of that demand, you know, that demand isn't as often we perceive it as weekends. Sometimes that demand is like two weeks of travel during during the program, or you know, and or being being off-site for for for weekend conclaves, or these every program has kind of its its own bells and whistles and its own structure. They don't all they tend not to kind of follow the academic year, like your sort of you know, fall to spring. Some of them start in January and they go for you know 12 months, some of them go for 17, some of them they're just really random. Some of them are online some of the time and offline some of the time. It's there, there's there's sort of EMBAs of all of all you know uh sizes, types. And the demands are different for all.

Harold Simansky: 9:21

I mean, listen, that really counts. Two years ago, I had a client of mine who got into Columbia, Chicago, MIT. He lived in Boston and always intended to live in Boston. But the wrinkle here was that he had just had a baby, had a three-year-old. MIT was about 20 minutes away, Columbia was hopping onto a train, and I said to him quite honestly, you will not have a good experience where you are in your life if you start having to travel as much as you do. It's like just get in the car, you leave the crying baby at home, get in the car, and just go to that program, as opposed to getting on the parent or guardian. You're not speaking. I make I make new promises, I can't speak to that. But but that is certainly something that should be a consideration, quite an open consideration, because it really does matter in terms of the quality of the education you'll get.

Jeremy Shinewald: 10:10

Well, and I think to Julianne's point about how they want to talk to your supervisor sometimes or they want to get some sense that your supervisor is is on board with this because you you're gonna need some time to study during the week. You're not gonna be like the EMBA has if you go to an MBA program, by and large, everyone's first commitment is that community and that experience. So if you go to an MBA program, if you go to an EMBA program, your job is your number one priority and your your your family is probably your second, and your education is probably your third. And so often in an interview, they'll say to you, like, have you talked to your spouse or partner about this community? That's right. Like that's that's right. That's that's the type of question they ask because they they want to know, not that you know, they want to know that you've allocated the time pro that you understand it, right?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 10:53

Yeah, and the logistics of it, you know, are really important to consider and they'll ask about it in the essays as well. So, you know, all of that. And I think they'll really interrogate it if you're not near that location, to Harold's point. So if you're applying to MIT and you're in the Boston area, you know, it's it's a little bit more understandable, but I've had people apply to Columbia, New York out of Arizona, and you know, um uh uh Hamas out of Southern California or you know, different programs, Chicago from Dallas. So they want to know that you've kind of baked into your plans the travel of it all, the the logistics. And um, I think one more point though to keep in mind is that sometimes what people don't realize about these executive MBA programs is that there may be multiple locations all over the country or even globally where you can get, you know, you can get a Kellogg MBA in executive MBA in Miami.

Jeremy Shinewald: 11:50

Yes, you know, that's exactly what I was gonna say. I was gonna say like let's play like word association, like that old, like that old uh commercial for like tires where they're like Goodyear means and the guy would go tune-ups. And it's like it's like you know, Kellogg means Miami. It's like Kellogg is Kellogg's EMBA is in Miami, and and Wharton's is. I mean, Wharton Wharton has one in Philadelphia, but they have one in right.

Harold Simansky: 12:11

We are miles from the Ward in San Francisco.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 12:14

Oh, it's really close by here, and it's on beautiful embarcadero. So um San Francisco is a location for Wharton. They have a new global one, which is you know online and and coordinates with everybody. Uh they travel to different locations around the world for a global experience that different um uh executive MBA students will take part in. Um booth, uh Hong Kong. Yeah. So, you know, you really get these surprising locations where you can get your executive MBA that you might not have been aware of.

Harold Simansky: 12:46

That's right. And Duke, I think, has really created a special page. Yeah, yeah, in terms of taking that cohort and really sending it around the world.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 12:53

Moving them around, yeah, exactly.

Jeremy Shinewald: 12:54

I think we sort of take for granted that whether you have studied your homework, you've done your homework on an MBA or not, you probably have like a vague understanding of what it is and how it operates, and it probably all operates within the confine, like very minimal. One might start in late July, one might start as late as September, you know, like minor differences, but they're all kind of running concurrently under the same structure. An eMBA program starting at different times, starting in different locations, different level of global travel. Some of them are totally online now, some of them have parts of them online. They're just they're really the there's the there's an option out there for you if you're interested.

Harold Simansky: 13:28

Right, but that again, that really cuts both ways. First of all, when you're 28 years old in an MBA program, the notion of travel around the world is so awesome. Like, like there's nothing we remember, Jeremy, we w we had on the president of the HBS.

Jeremy Shinewald: 13:44

Uh I say this with nothing but love, but I don't think he actually was in Cambridge. Or if he if he was in Cambridge. At any point, right then he needed, then he shouldn't have rented an apartment because this because you traveled. He was he was all over the place.

Harold Simansky: 13:56

He was all over the place. For an EMBA program, what is appealing for a two-year MBA program can actually be far less appealing. Again, you have that young family at home where you just have other commitments, the notion of you having to travel, it's that you're not interested in. Plus, then also think about it this way: given the fact that EMBA programs, just by the nature of who is going to that program, are gonna be far more locally focused. So this idea here of sure, go to, you know, you live in Dallas and you're going to the Kellogg program, but you know what? Most of the people are going to be coming from Chicago. How is that going to impact your career going forward? Yeah. So am I right, Julian?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 14:33

That can vary a little bit.

Harold Simansky: 14:35

We have room for disagreement on this podcast.

Jeremy Shinewald: 14:37

Here we go.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 14:38

I mean, I think it I think some people will make that commitment to travel. And and I have worked with people who have done some of those distances, but to your point, it's not easy, you know. So they're going uh away for the weekend, leaving their homes and their families to travel and go to New York or or wherever for a couple of days, maybe, you know, two or three two twice a month, once a month, something like that. Um, but that cohort experience, that sort of like being with people around you who have those same problems that you have, but maybe in a different industry, um, that's what really can help people to sort of level up in a way that maybe a part-time MBA, you know, you might not get that sort of vetted senior manager experience. It might be more of a lecture and less of a discussion.

Harold Simansky: 15:28

Right. I always thought to myself, if you need to learn accounting and you sort of have to do things on your own, that's a part-time MBA. That's really this notion here of being very, very focused on developing particular skills, sometimes many of them just functional skills, as opposed to an EMBA, they're building leaders for tomorrow. I think that that's really it. Yeah.

Jeremy Shinewald: 15:49

One thing that I I'm curious what what what your experience is. I feel like in the many years that I've been doing this, the EMBAs that I've dealt with have overwhelmingly, like nine times out of 10, maybe 19 times out of 20, been focused on staying in their current job. Um, and like it's harder to make a career change in in an in an EMBA program. Would you and and and to you can't really, I mean, I guess you could state that as your goal, um, but you're kind of you're applying, you you have a job. Um, I don't know. Do you have any experience with with career changers, people who need career support in the program?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 16:25

Yeah, I think it can happen. I mean, I think especially in a volatile economy, the career services can be very supportive. And I've definitely had that experience where people who have been in the program and things change with their employer that they weren't anticipating and suddenly they're needing that support. They do, they do invest in people in their programs, wanting them to be successful because part of what they're, you know, um offering and part of their whole competitive advantage is this network. So they want you to succeed. Um, that being said, you know, you're not going to do an internship in an executive MBA. That's that's it's not designed to help you move or put your toe in the water somewhere else. It's designed to help you level up in your career overall, usually with your existing employer. Um, but you know, if things change, they they want to help you.

Harold Simansky: 17:14

Yeah, I mean, listen, EMB programs are extremely, extremely expensive. So the Wharton one is, I think, is north of like two 225 or something like that.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 17:22

Is that yeah, it can they're they're generally expensive. They're north of $200,000, depending on the program. But you really want to read what's included in that. Um a lot of times it's the lodging. You're required to live in a particular hotel. So the Hyatt Regency in San Francisco, if I were to go to the executive MBA program for Wharton, I would be required to move into that hotel, even if I were in town. So um, and that's part of that cohort experience. They're all spending that time together on those weekends and having dinners and all of that.

Harold Simansky: 17:55

Right, which then also the price tag implies that your employer is going to ideally pick up a piece of it, which again really doubles down on the commitment that you have to go back there. So something else to keep in mind, because honestly, the notion, I think it's a fundamentally different decision if you have to write a check for $238,000, $240,000. Though we have had clients who are very happy doing that for all sorts of different reasons. But but but that that is a lot of dough. And the notion here is okay, if the employer is going to pick it up, suddenly you are once again really recognizing the fact it is going to be hard to move careers or jobs or whatever it is.

Jeremy Shinewald: 18:37

So I mean one thing that one difference I think for again, you know, MBAs, part-time EMBA, is that uh generally speaking, MBAs virtually always, a couple of exceptions, at least at the at the elite MBAs, there's gonna be a test. You're gonna take the GM out of the GRE. You know, again, there are a couple top schools that will give you the chance to to have a um a waiver. Part-time, I feel like, is a question mark. And EMBA programs, like very few have that requirement. Wharton has that requirement.

Harold Simansky: 19:06

There really is a third exam specifically for executive MBA programs, but right now, a small number of two-year programs are using this as a metric that's called the executive assessment. I don't want to go as far as saying it's an easier test necessarily. It's a short test.

Jeremy Shinewald: 19:22

It's a threshold test. Instead of it being like a high watermark test where you're trying to like compete for that, you know, that extra 10 points. I think there's generally an accept generally it's it's generally accepted with the EA, if you get about a 155, you have the capabilities to manage a this generally of an executive to to to be part of an executive MBA program.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 19:44

Yeah, it really depends on the program. I mean, I think yeah, I think Wharton's executive MBA, their their EA thresholds and GMAT thresholds are pretty high, honestly. Yeah, Wharton, yeah. Um, but uh other ones they might not even publish them. Or as you suggest. They might have waivers. And I think, you know, what are the things that can help you get that waiver? I would say it's generally much easier for an executive MBA applicant because they have so much experience to back them up and they're out of the school environment. That's the whole reason they're coming back. They'll still look at your transcript from undergrad and they'll look at maybe some other things that you have. Maybe you have a CFA, maybe you have, you know, an accounting background, maybe you have some other quantitative coursework or credentials that you can bring to the table. And that'll help them, you know.

Harold Simansky: 20:30

Yeah. Listen, I consider the EA or the EMBA generally, it's almost like I call it the get out of jail free card. And what I mean by that is that I have had a constellation of folks who got into EMBA programs with sort of these, let's say, potholes in their resumes. What do I mean? What do I mean? Okay, I mean the guy who actually didn't finish college. That's one thing. I also mean the guy who I'm gonna try to tread lightly here, who got kicked out of medical school. And the the reality is that an EMB an EMBA program was really not just a great way for him to develop skills, but also to sort of answer one very difficult, clear question. And he got into a top program and it was a little bit worked up a sweat, sort of making that case to the EMBA program, but really happy ending when at times there need not have been a happy ending inside.

Jeremy Shinewald: 21:28

But like I'm curious if you agree with this. The EMBA programs tend to be almost like uh from an admissions perspective, almost like a customer service team as opposed to a gatekeeper. Um, that might be a little bit of an exaggeration, but the the the the MBA program is almost like, you know, don't call us, we'll call you, you know, like just do your application. I get they're they're getting it generally a little more friendly than that now, but like they don't want you asking too many questions. The EMBA team, it's like, hey, come in, talk to us. Let's see, we'll talk to you about your grades, we'll understand that. Okay, that's good. Come come to a session, come to our office. They're almost at times selling the applicant on a little bit more and trying to find ways to let people in as opposed to keep them out. Would you would you agree with that, Julian?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 22:12

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think, look, it's it's more complicated of an evaluation. I think when you're only a few years out of school, you know, you don't have the experience to point to. So, you know, you've got a bunch of numbers. Maybe it's a little bit closer to gauging your leadership. But when you've been working for 20 years, you know, that's a more complicated evaluation. And you're not going to go back into the archives and look at what they got in art history when they were 18 years old. You know, it's just less of a it's less of a factor for what they're trying to get out of that program.

Harold Simansky: 22:46

That's a great point. Yeah. Listen, I will sort of turn it around a little bit. I joke with people that to speak to the MBA MBA admissions committee or to get to know them at all, I call it the fortress of solitude. In the sense of good luck, it's really hard to do. I don't want to dissuade anybody, but there's a lot better ways of getting to know schools as opposed to EMBA programs. I agree with Jeremy and I agree in the sense of you can have a conversation and they will tell you, listen, you're looking great. Maybe there's a couple things you have to do. How about this notion here, Julianne, of someone calling? Am I too young? Am I too old? How do you answer a question like that?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 23:23

Yeah, I mean, I think you can be too young for some of these executive MBA programs. Some of them do have cutoffs. You know, they'll say, we you need a minimum of six years, eight years, you know, 10 years. That might be a little bit fuzzy. Um, but they'll tell you that there's a certain age uh range that they're going for, but it's not just age. It's not just, you know, you could be sitting around and uh for 10 years in a same in the same job, and it you still might not be a great candidate for for an executive MBA. You need to have that sort of oversight of some kind of resources or people to be the right fit for the program. So, in terms of age, I mean, but it it can be blurry because you can get people with 10 years of experience in a regular MBA program. Uh, maybe they're coming out of the military and you know, they don't have necessarily civil work experience. So, um, and then the executive MBA, I've had people go to different programs. I had one person go to one program with six years of experience. I had somebody go to another one with eight, you know. So they can be younger than people in the two-year programs. It's kind of funny, but it depends on what they're doing and what they're gonna bring to that class. Yeah.

Harold Simansky: 24:35

Yeah, listen, I think that's always an important point. EMBA programs, you really have to bring something. You really have to bring something very distinct. And the reality is that you are learning from your classmates in a way that even at some of the top MBA programs, you're simply not. Because it's a whole different group of people who can lend their own experiences in a different way.

Jeremy Shinewald: 24:56

Like if you the if if the average might be for some of these, some of these programs 12, 13, 14 years at some uh in some cases. You can still have a mature experience after seven years. You can still say, look, you know, I have the I have significant managerial experience in my life to the point where the key is you have to be able to say, look, I can walk into your classroom and seem like a mature professional who's got something to contribute, along with the head of purchasing from you know, XYZ division of Boeing and a senior VP from XYZ group at Procter and Gamble. I can walk in here and it doesn't look like I'm a junior analyst from a fintech company. And so it's not only about the AIDS, it's about where you are in that in your career.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 25:42

Yeah. I I had one client who um who was working at Apple down in Cupertino, and he um engineering background, you know, definitely could go either way. Uh he had a lot of experience and he applied to both two year MBA programs and the Wharton executive program here in San Francisco. And he got into a number of them. And at the, you know, at the end of it, he's like, where do I go? You know, and and and the answer for him was two factors. Um, one of them was um, you know, who's the peer group? And uh, you know, who what kind of discussions was he gonna be having in class uh with the people around him? And it was a compelling thing that the people uh in his peer group and the executive MBA were kind of where he was and about to be. So he felt like they would bring him up as opposed to kind of maybe being a little more junior where he was gonna have almost more of a teaching role. So he he he really wanted to have that kind of leveling up experience where people were bringing him up as opposed to him being the one bringing others up. And I think the second thing was he didn't want to get let go of all of his incentives and his stuff. And and take the time out from his career where you were gonna lose that money. And I think he's pretty happy that he kind of kept working during that period because the stock went really high.

Harold Simansky: 27:02

I mean, honestly, a little bit a little bit of an anecdote here. I've had a number of clients from Apple who they get into sort of some great programs, and all they can think about is if I can work while go to business school until November, I then my that bonus kicks in. And I don't want to say Apple was nefarious. I'd never say that. That noted, you used to be able to get your bonus before you had to go to business school, and now it's like two months after. So, but but again, another consideration when you're talking about big dollars.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 27:33

Yeah, it's that time away from your career and maybe giving up some of these incentive packages to kind of stay on board. So for him, that was the right call.

Jeremy Shinewald: 27:41

So let's talk about let's start with the application process itself. Yeah. I I've had clients where they've met with the adcom. The adcom has basically said to them, like, yeah, you should you're the type of person we're looking for. If you do a good job of your application, I would, I would I can't promise, but I would imagine we would let you in. Like that's that's the that's like the level of of of outreach. So people should visit a classroom, they should attend an online event, they should, if someone offers them the opportunity to kind of like have a meeting, they should definitely do that. Um, you know, after that, there are all the conventional aspects of your of your candidacy. There are essays, um, you know, there are career goals pieces. So um, you know, I think, I think, you know, that the career goals piece I think is an important one. Maybe we've touched upon it, but maybe you can just sort of, you know, take us through how to be effective in in talking about career goals when you're thinking about staying, overwhelmingly thinking about staying in the same role you're in.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 28:37

Yeah, I mean, um, are you talking about the conversations that you'd have with the admissions committee?

Jeremy Shinewald: 28:42

No, sorry, I mean, like if if you're in your essays or in an interview and you're talking about your career goals and you're like, well, I'm I'm in a job, and my career goals are kind of fairly clear. So how do you how do you how do you kind of communicate a you know a bigger vision for yourself if you're staying in the same firm post post-EMBA?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 29:00

Yeah, I mean, I think that's an important part of any MBA application, honestly, is to have this vision of where you're going and what the gap is, right? And I think that's very true for um executive MBAs. I think the big thing there is just this sort of seniority and responsibility. I mean, um, we always talk about accomplishments, not responsibilities. Well, with executive MBAs, I think responsibilities are a bigger part of the conversation because they want to make sure you are the right person, the right level who's gonna bring up the class.

Jeremy Shinewald: 29:28

So you know it's a funny thing. Often with our with our clients, I've been overwhelmingly our clients for MBAs, and we say, like, okay, well, you know, you this is this is a tougher communication exercise than you might realize because you haven't really written anything since high school. You're an engineer, and someone who's 20 years out and has been in the in the workplace hasn't written a a personal narrative in forever. And so that's that's often a chat. Like, I find that we have some at some clients for the at the EMBA level who are like, look, I I know I'm I know I can get in, I just need help executing on this. Like, I just haven't done anything like that.

Harold Simansky: 30:03

And these are long applications. Yeah. EMBA programs are uh applications are absolutely long, frequently, if not generally, longer than a two-year program. And that and they're far broader in terms of the questions they ask. So it is a hard application.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 30:17

Yeah, there are a lot of nuances to hit. I think the uh the two-year programs have been getting shorter and shorter. Yeah. I mean, look at what Wharton did this past year. They're just getting much shorter essays to get yeah, the um the essays are much shorter that you had to do, but an executive MBA might be 750 words, something longer. And that's often like the reason they're going for this program in the first place is that maybe they stuck struggle with some of the soft skills like communication skills, getting their um, getting their goals across, having a vision. These are things that, you know, things that they're struggling with to begin with, which is why they want the program. So it's a little bit of kind of getting you ready for the program before you even uh go there.

Harold Simansky: 30:58

Uh what I've begun really seeing and really liking is this notion here of there have been some programs that have actually have multiple campuses, but local campuses. And what I mean by that, Darden, for example, now has a Washington, D.C. campus. Right. University of Texas McCombs in Austin now has a University of Texas in Austin Dallas campus, as opposed to the University of Texas in Dallas, which by the way, UT Dallas is a wonderful. I mean, you know, honestly, it's a wonderful program. But Jeremy, do I understand as a UVA graduate that you actually had a professor of yours opening?

Jeremy Shinewald: 31:34

Greg Fairchild opened up a beautiful campus, uh, a gift of the Sands family, if I recall, uh a uh a Darden family that made a uh that that in the hedge fund world that made a large gift to the school to open up a DC campus and it's completely uh changed the footprint of the school. So yeah, it goes back to our previous point. It's like when you think Darden, you think DC. Yeah, you know, uh so yeah, the these these they're these are gonna continue sprouting up also, I I think, as education changes and people expect more flexible options. I imagine um that they'll be they'll continue to be more options globally. Like uh, you know, there aren't as many global options as you as you'd think. Like you mentioned Chicago booth in Hong Kong, I believe in London as well. Um, I'm surprised there isn't a I don't know, you know, a Wharton uh outpost in Tokyo or Dubai or you know, whatever it is. Maybe it's coming soon.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 32:25

Well, yeah, it's coming. They do have the global MBA, so that might be more virtual and they do travel and stuff. But yeah, I'm I'm 100% expecting more campuses globally.

Jeremy Shinewald: 32:34

So to sum up, I think if you're if you're an executive MBA, if you're interested in executive MBA, first of all, find out about the find out about about the parameters of the program because they're just so different and they start at different times or in different locations, have different requirements, but being on campus around the world, then engage the adcom um because they're happy to hear from you. Uh, then figure out your testing requirements. You might not even might not even need one of that program. Uh get your narrative down around why you need the why you need the degree uh and where you're gonna go with it. Don't just say, like, I'm gonna continue on my job. You've got to kind of give have a bigger picture for it. Get your your family or recommender on board, your finances together. Logistics. Yeah, logistics, and you're you're probably, if you're taking it seriously and you're pretty senior in your career, you have that very good chance of succeeding.

Harold Simansky: 33:23

There are other ways of thinking about a part-time MBA or maybe taking off a full year and doing something like the MIT Sloan Fellows or Stanford MSX. And how do you think about the differences?

Julie-Anne Heafey: 33:34

Yeah, I think um uh MSX um at Stanford or Sloan Fellows at LBS or MIT Sloan, um, those are different from other executive MBA programs. First of all, they're not all MBAs. Um, Sloan, you have a master's degree. So you choose what degree you want. So some of them you might be getting an MBA or you might be getting a master's in management. So that's something to consider is do you need that actual degree or are you a little bit more flexible on that? But generally speaking, it's not this intermittent immersive experience. It's it's a full year of immersion. So it in that way, it's a little bit uh in between an executive MBA and a two-year MBA. You're on campus for a year. Um, I think they're very global a lot of the a lot of the time because people can't travel for those intermittent programs. So you might have very senior bank people at a South American bank. You know, uh, if you look at who attends uh Sloan Fellows, for example, you're gonna see a very global cohort of people who might not have an executive MBA program that they can go back and forth to. So that's something to keep in mind, is if you want that sort of immersive experience.

Jeremy Shinewald: 34:47

And IMD almost fits that bill as well. It's it's an MBA program, but it is sort of like one year and people tend to be a little older or more senior.

Julie-Anne Heafey: 34:54

Yeah.

Jeremy Shinewald: 34:55

So I it's it's not, I mean, it is an MBA program, but it's it's like right in between. It's almost like between an MBA and like like almost like an MSX, where you're you have all these senior people who are gathering. Um it's a it's it's similar similar in spirit, I guess.

Harold Simansky: 35:10

Yeah, and there's nuances to that as well, to these types of programs. So join us when we do a podcast just on these mid-career, one-year MBA programs or master's programs when we speak to Jeremy and Debbie and really get into the ins and outs of these types of programs.

Jeremy Shinewald: 35:27

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