Ep 92 | Finance Applicants Beyond Private Equity: How to Stand Out in MBA Admissions

Private equity often dominates the MBA admissions conversation — but finance is far broader than PE alone.

In this episode, host Harold Simansky is joined by mbaMission Founder Jeremy Shinewald and Senior MBA Admissions Consultant Julie-Anne Heafey to explore how finance applicants from investment banking, venture capital, equity research, and investment management can stand out in an intensely competitive pool.

What truly differentiates a finance candidate? It’s not the number of deals you’ve worked on or the volume of companies you’ve covered — it’s impact. The team discusses how admissions committees evaluate leadership, insight, and influence within traditional finance roles, and why storytelling matters even more when your background resembles many other applicants’.

If you’re coming from finance and wondering how to position yourself effectively for top MBA programs, this episode offers practical, strategic insight into crafting a compelling narrative beyond private equity.

00:00 – Finance Beyond Private Equity: Who This Episode Is For
Investment banking, equity research, VC, credit, insurance & more — how these candidates fit into MBA admissions.

02:09 –  The Myth of “PE or Bust” at Top MBA Programs
Why finance is broader than private equity — and why non-PE applicants absolutely get in.

04:21 – Insurance, Credit and Overlooked Finance Paths
How unconventional finance roles can offer broader leadership narratives.

08:07 – Cutting Through Finance Jargon in Your Application
How to translate technical work into relatable, impact-driven storytelling.

10:20 – How Competitive Is PE vs Other Finance Backgrounds?
Do acceptance rates differ? What really matters to admissions committees.

14:05 – Finance Programs Beyond the Usual Suspects
NYU, Cornell, Yale, Kellogg, Ross, McCombs, MIT & more — hidden finance strengths.

18:51 – Resume Strategy for Finance Applicants
Why deal lists aren’t enough and how to show real impact.

21:39 – Storytelling That Works (Ping Pong and Puzzles)
Creative ways finance candidates have differentiated themselves.

26:15 – Recommendation Strategy for Finance Professionals
How to avoid generic analytical praise and highlight leadership instead.

30:52 – Crafting Compelling Essays from Traditional Backgrounds
Why finance applicants must work harder to uncover meaningful stories.

33:25 – School Fit and Why You Truly Need the MBA
Articulating your goals beyond “returning to finance.”

34:51 – Final Advice and Free Resources for Finance Applicants
Consultations, guides, and OnTrack overview.

Book your FREE 30-minute MBA admissions consultation with Harold or another one of our experienced MBA admissions consultants by filling out this form.

Learn more about onTrack by mbaMission, our innovative, on-demand MBA application platform, and take our two-minute questionnaire to receive your customized learning path.
 
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Transcript

Finance Beyond Private Equity: Who This Episode Is For

Jeremy Shinewald 0:00

If you're coming from investment banking, if you're coming from equity research, like hopefully you have a strong community profile, hopefully you have a strong personal profile.

Harold Simansky 0:07

You really have to distinguish yourself in a way that maybe other folks don't.

Julie-Anne Heafey 0:11

It's not just about like the number of companies that you're covering, but like what's the impact of your recommendations? How did you find something that others didn't?

Harold Simansky 0:19

When you come from one of these finance backgrounds, it is likely you have to work very, very, very hard to craft that essay that's compelling. In today's episode of the MBA Mission Podcast, we're talking about a group that is often discussed but not always fully understood. We'll look at candidates coming from venture capital, investment banking, and investment research, and how their paths to business school can differ. Everyone knows PE candidates have a strong presence in MBA programs, but finance is a far broader world. Professionals in VC, banking, and research bring very different perspectives and face unique challenges when it comes to telling their stories and standing out in a competitive pool. MBA Mission Senior Consultant Julianne is here with us to break it all down. She has worked with many finance professionals across these fields, helping them navigate the MBA admissions process. Let's dive into how these candidates can differentiate themselves, what schools are looking for from those with finance backgrounds, and how we at an MBA mission can help you craft a powerful, authentic application.

Jeremy Shinewald 1:39

So here we are today to talk about uh finance beyond PE. Obviously, one of the areas we're gonna talk about is VC. Uh we're talking about investment banking, equity research, all those things. But when I think VC, I think San Francisco, which is where we are today. So for avid followers of the podcast, you will see a change in scenery. And that gives us access to the whole NBA Mission West Coast team, including our dear friend Julianne, who has joined us. Thanks for joining us, Julianne.

Julie-Anne Heafey 2:05

Yeah, my pleasure.

The Myth of “PE or Bust” at Top MBA Programs

Jeremy Shinewald 2:06

Did you want to start us off? Where do where do you want to get this podcast?

Harold Simansky 2:09

I mean, listen, the reality for me is when I hear an applicant in finance applying to some of the top schools, I automatically think about PE or VC for the really the top applicants applying to the top schools. But I'm I don't think I'm thinking it really holistically. Julianne, what else do you see when we think about finance?

Julie-Anne Heafey 2:27

Yeah, there's so many finance jobs beyond private equity and venture capital. I mean, those jobs have mushroomed since since I went to business school. There weren't nearly as many spots in those in those industries earlier. So they do take up a lot of the conversation today. And they're a big part of the class at a lot of uh the really prestigious programs, but there are plenty of applicants who are working just in investment banking, who are working in equity research, who are working in investment management of some kind, in insurance. Yeah, exactly. Credit cards, I mean, just all different things. In terms of treasury, all different things for um for finance. And so I feel like uh private equity gets all of the glory. Um, but there are plenty of other people out there who might be applying who are wondering whether, you know, whether how to how to market themselves and uh how to make themselves stand out and show what's great about them.

Jeremy Shinewald 3:20

And one thing that's funny is I think that people, the the the PE people tend to say, like, it's so competitive for for my for my my cohort, and the and like I'm never gonna get in, get in. And the non-pe people tend to say, I'm not in PE, I'm never gonna get in. Right, and so the non the non-PE, there's there's room for the best PE applicants. They can't have a class of all PE applicants, but sometimes, you know, a really interesting. I had an applicant last year who was in, who spent his his his um his career in insurance and then insurance um banking, fascinating individual with really interesting niche experience in this area. And he spent a lot of time thinking, like, maybe I don't I don't measure up. And he absolutely did. He was able to talk about a depth of experience in a way that few others could. So um often I think business schools are surprisingly meritocratic. If you've done really well in credit cards or in asset management, there's there's definitely room for you.

Insurance, Credit and Overlooked Finance Paths

Harold Simansky 4:20

Yep. What's really interesting for me is this notion of other industries actually provide you with a much broader set of skills. And I have an insurance client right now who's at one of the top business schools, and he started out as an estimator in the insurance industry. And if you don't know what an estimator is, it's the person who goes after you smash your car. Um, how much did the insurance be giving you? And he started off the community college, estimator, and really had a great career at one of the top insurance companies. And at that point, business schools just looked at him. You can imagine what his experience is like versus a private equity candidate who, again, wonderful experience by all means, but a fairly narrow experience. And I think that's frequently where you see the difference in terms of one PE applicant versus another, or PE applicant versus someone else in the world of finance.

Jeremy Shinewald 5:06

If you want to be one of our success stories, sign up for a free consultation with a member of our full-time MBA admissions team. Since we've worked with tens of thousands of applicants over the past two decades, we can give you our honest opinion on your chances and help you put together your very best application. That is not a sales call, but rather your first session with one of us for free. We can give you a profile evaluation, answer specific questions about the process, review your resume, talk about your school choices, and so much more. Sign up at nba mission.com slash consult. We look forward to working with you.

Julie-Anne Heafey 5:39

Yeah, I mean, I think for insurance, um, I think that's a really important point of view, though, that they're bringing to the table. I mean, look at what's going on in the world in terms of climate and risk and things like that. And sometimes insurance candidates will be bringing a view on a very important industry that's underpinning a lot of other stuff going on uh in the business school classroom. So I think that's an important point of view to bring in.

Jeremy Shinewald 6:04

I think what you're really saying is, yeah, you need you need to be able to share the breadth of your story. I think if you get too into the weeds on, like, you know, underwriting or or on on uh on, I don't know, some, you know, portfolio management technique for asset management or uh whatever, whatever it might be, and you lose the broader narrative about theoretically learning to adjust, uh again, theoretically, learning to adjust underwriting standards in Florida after a major storm and learning to think long-term about climate and insurance and uh issues of fairness to clients and making it up. It's like, you know, you've got you suddenly you have a, you know, you've got a much broader story to your to your point, where you're you're there's a lot, there are a lot of different dimensions into your decision-making, your experience that you've got for the class.

Harold Simansky 6:52

I mean, listen, we're right now in San Francisco, not that far from Lake Tahoe, big fires at Lake Tahoe. At that point, a lot of places could not get fire insurance. Can you imagine having a piece of property in Lake Tahoe and you can't get fire insurance? What does that mean? Well, the whole real estate construction in Lake Tahoe is starting to really cave in. At that point, also, all of the ancillary industries around that all become all driven by the fact that you couldn't get insurance or they they start looking at risk much differently.

Cutting Through Finance Jargon in Your Application

Julie-Anne Heafey 7:21

I think what Jeremy was hitting on um before was also just the jargon of it all. You know, like you know, uh all those big picture things that you're talking about are are really important to bring in. But I think that's true for almost any finance area. If you're in equity research, uh you're maybe cover and you're maybe covering something like financial institutions. That can get very technical very quickly. Right. Right. Um if you are in investment banking, you know, are you in, you know, high yield? That's going to be something that's difficult to translate for the lay reader who's in the admissions office. So I think that is a really good point. Um, and that these things are really important to the um other industries, like you were saying, Harold, but also um deads with jargon sometimes.

Jeremy Shinewald 8:07

Yeah, like the average admissions officer has no sense of uh, you know, what the your your equity research into industrial companies or something like that, into their like it's it's you've got to be able to tell your story in a in a fairly plain way and make it really relatable. You know, not every equity research individual is gonna be covering Apple or I don't know, some other consumer stock or technology stock that we all know. And so you you've got to get to the point where you know how to we we always say like the grandmother test, or you're you know, like if you were gonna tell your grandmother about what you do at the office, you you you wouldn't say, I'm looking at ratios, uh, you know, to to understand uh you know the differences between investments in industrial paints companies. Like you would say you would you would make it far more human than that. I think that's a good lesson for anyone, whether you're you're in finance or consulting or anything. The admissions committee is is generally speaking looking for you know your understanding of of how you've been an impact player, not specifically how you've executed minor tasks. And sometimes people get lost in that, or their resumes get lost in that, like really resumes that are just laden with jargon and numbers, you're it's not like you can't get in, you're just missing an opportunity to share critical information with someone.

Julie-Anne Heafey 9:26

Yeah, it's like translating a different language for sure.

Harold Simansky 9:29

That's right. I always like clients, and I think a very good success with clients who are coming from the credit side. This notion here, we always think about investment banking sort of MA. But at the same point, when it comes to being a finance candidate, again, there's nuances in finance, there's niche in finance, and and honestly, particularly as credit now, the credit side of things has really exploded. You want the credit guy in the classroom because he's talking a completely different language than basically anybody else talking about finance.

Jeremy Shinewald 9:58

Yeah, right. So, so you know, let's let's talk about the percentage of the clo of a typical class that comes from finance. And uh, you know, like the the largest number outgoing is actually usually consulting followed by finance. The largest incoming is is often consulting in most schools and and kind of balance with finance. Or financial services.

Julie-Anne Heafey 10:20

Yeah, financial services can be the biggest one in some schools. So I mean, if you were just some schools will break it out, right? So at Harvard, you'll see uh VC and PE are a certain percentage of the class, it's 16%. Um and then the rest, every everybody else, the rest of the bucket is 10% of the class. So all those different areas are all fighting for space within that group. Whereas Columbia will just say, hey, our financial, our financial services, including PE, including VC, including everybody, is about 30% of the class. So some schools will break it out, others won't, and you'll see varying percentages of the class depending on what you're doing.

Harold Simansky 10:58

Which actually begs the question if I'm a private equity applicant, what does my acceptance rate look like versus maybe some kind of coming out of investment more traditional investment banking or asset management? Is their success substantially better than someone else coming from the financial service world?

Jeremy Shinewald 11:15

Yeah, I guess I mean I the admissions committees are sort of loath to offer like specifics of that. But I think like you're talking about a probably a more a more competitive group or a larger number of people coming from those areas, but also maybe a larger percentage of the class. So you said, you know, I think Harvard's 16%. I think Stanford's probably pretty similar. Wharton might be like 13% coming from from coming from private equity. Sometimes they bundle together PVC investment management funds sometimes, yeah, exactly. But I I bet you there are more applicants per spot for the for those for those uh for those. Uh you know, I can't say this definitively. Um but uh you know again, it could sort of be like a bit of the tail wagging the dog with that one. It's like sometimes people in those places are they're up and out of those environments, whereas you might not be up and out of the environment in equity research. And so there might be fewer applicants and uh, you know, it's it's it's hard to kind of it's hard to to put the game theory on that one. Um, but I think, you know, there's there's they don't the important thing for applicants, they don't have quotas. If you're a good applicant, you're a good applicant. There's gonna be room for an applicant in lending, for example, which I think people tend not to think of as like kind of the that glamorous. It's like if you're an impact player in lending, there's room for you.

Harold Simansky 12:29

I mean, listen, if you're coming out of the private equity world where there's gonna be a lot of applicants, you have to do a really good application. And at the end of the day, I don't want this to be a commercial other than saying, if you have any questions about this, by all means talk to me, talk to Jeremy, talk to Julianne, spend 30 minutes uh on the phone with us. But the reality is if you are coming from one of these worlds, private equity venture capital, you really have to distinguish yourself in a way that maybe other folks don't. I mean, if someone came out coming out of insurance, there's gonna be five, right? There are gonna be five applicants in insurance. If there's going to be 75, 100, whatever it is, PE people, then why are you different from that other person? Why does it make sense for you? And you really have to articulate that.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:10

I want to jump in for one second and say one of my favorite clients said to me that he was watching our podcast and he had no idea that you could actually work with us. Like he thought that he said there's like this phenomenon where people believe that you're that that like people who are on TV are sort of not part of this world type thing or on your computer screen. So Julianne's a real person. Uh you can call her for a free consultation, and you will, you can have that half an hour with her or with Harold uh or with me. That gets me away from your question. Uh, but nonetheless, I think I think it's important to note that you can that we are real humans who are accessible in what we do.

Harold Simansky 13:45

Um well, in many ways, what I'm saying is a truism. You have to do a really good application, and you have to remember that some guy or some woman who's just one cubicle over, they're trying to also do a really good application, though your resumes look you know quite similar if you're working at the same firm doing the same thing. You have to distinguish yourself, and there's really no way around it.

Finance Programs Beyond the Usual Suspects

Jeremy Shinewald 14:04

So let's talk about some of the some of the programs that I think maybe sometimes you know aren't like I I think you know, finance applicants tend to be people who are extremely driven, um, you know, gunning for the top schools uh among them, among top schools, you know, that are sort of typically associated with finance, you know, Columbia, Wharton. I think even Harvard maybe isn't like you don't think finance, but people who are interested in in you know financial experience are obviously gunning for Harvard and Stanford. Um if you're an investment banker, NYU is actually the program that is the highest percentage of individuals with with banking experience coming into the program and tends to do an excellent job placing people in banking as well.

Harold Simansky 14:48

Yeah, I'm gonna put in a commercial for Cornell. The Cornell Investment Banking Immersion Program is really fantastic, and you will get an investment banking job coming out of Cornell. They'll make sure of it.

Jeremy Shinewald 14:58

And like Yale, I would say, people don't think of Yale in terms of finance, they're all these old. I'm not gonna re-in, I'm not gonna invoke stereotypes that Yale's trying to get rid of. So I'm not gonna mention what they've historically been been known for. But like, you know, they've got an you know, they've got a Nobel laureate who at Yale who's who's who called the bubble in 2009, who uh, you know, I'm talking about Schiller, of course, uh, who right now I believe is calling a bubble as well, or the case Schiller index is as high as it's ever been right now. I think it's higher. Um, you know, someone who was who was interested in like mortgage finance and and housing markets and the behavior of bubbles. Uh, so you know, I think you have to think beyond, like, yes, Booth has many Nobel laureates as well. As if like we can't we I'm I'm the one on introducing Nobel laureates and then saying like you shouldn't pay attention to that. But like, I mean, the just the idea that like there's a lot of of effective research going on in some of these environments that isn't just um you know, isn't only going on at, let's say, you know, your Wharton, whatever it is. Uh so I think there are other schools. I mean, one of my dearest friends went to went to Kellogg and um, you know, is you know, has has had a very significant career as the CFO of a major, major, of a multi-billion dollar company for for many years. It's not like Kellogg neglected to teach him finances because people associate it with other things.

Julie-Anne Heafey 16:20

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of these other programs are overlooked, but they might have special things depending on what your goals are. Um, Yale launched an asset management uh institute uh in in 2023. It's it you can do a dual degree for that if you're really interested in uh learning about investing, or you can just take classes there. I mean, one of the things about Yale is you can take classes in any of its schools anywhere on its campus. And so even if you just want to check it out and you're in the regular MBA program, that's a great opportunity. I think um other other schools that come to mind that people don't think of, you just touched on Kellogg. I mean, you can get a fully funded uh MBA if you are applying with a finance background there as one of their finance fellows. That's pretty attractive. I mean, if you're in finance, you understand the value of and you mentioned asset management.

Jeremy Shinewald 17:11

I think again, people might think of of Booth. Uh effectively the efficient market theory was created there and and uh and and Booth is is named after a leader in the finance field. But like asset management, uh, Texas McCombs has a massive student-run investment fund. Um, you know, Darden has one that's I think over$20 million. I actually I was I was the one of the fund managers when I was at Darden. It's it's grown significantly since we left it in a in a in a in in minor positions. Nothing to do with us, nothing at all. I think it's now over$20 million in both those schools. I think I think Cornell has the Cornell does a hedge fund that you can run, the Kayoga Fund. I think that's right. That you can run. So I think there are really significant opportunities in these schools.

Julie-Anne Heafey 17:57

Ross has more student-run investment funds than at any other school. Do they? Uh it's like trivia question that a lot of people wouldn't realize.

Jeremy Shinewald 18:03

But and and Michigan Ross also has, I believe they also have a real estate fund that where you can you can make real, I think that where you can make real estate um invest. And that's like another form of finance. That real estate is basically finance.

Harold Simansky 18:14

Yeah. And our podcast with Donna Levins in the D DM Admissions at MIT, we asked her, what else should MIT really be known for? And she said finance. And that I think speaks to the fact that they're in Boston, huge number of money management firms, huge number of people go to places like Wellington State Street. Talking about student-run investment funds, just a couple of years ago, I guess, Yale started the first social impact student investment fund. And that truly is unique. I think it really speaks to the time of using a for-profit model, investing in for-profit companies that are really doing some great things and having impact really beyond the world of business.

Resume Strategy for Finance Applicants

Jeremy Shinewald 18:50

So we already talked about jargon a little bit, but some of the other challenges I think that that applicants face is maybe especially when you come from come from banking. I just I think about I think about that, you know, your resume as the first impression, that map that they pick up and kind of like, you know, get that immediate just reaction to to what you're doing. And I think from a very practical perspective, I think one of the things that you have to do to differentiate yourself is often, is often de-emphasize work. Not that your work isn't important, but just like, you know, if you're coming from investment banking, if you're coming from equity research, like hopefully you have a strong community profile, hopefully you have a strong personal profile. And that's not something you can just create on your resume, but hopefully you're able to tell a story that has more breadth. Because if you're coming from, or from private equity, even though we're not talking about private equity today, if you're if you're coming from, you know, the same background as a competitive pool, um, you know, or or from a drier background at times, like like underwriting, let's say, trying to give yourself a little bit of personality, uh, you know, outside of outside of work, you you start to separate yourself from other like applicants. Like I always said applicants, who would you accept? Would you accept if two underwriters with similar scores? Would you accept the one who you know knocked the cover off the ball at work and got a promotion? Or the one who knocked the cover off the ball at work, got a promotion, and then went out and literally helped kids knock the cover off the ball off the ball, uh, coaching baseball for a couple of seasons. You know, it's not a massive difference, but one is showing on a relative basis he's got a stronger internal motor, maybe has some other skills, some other ability to relate. So I think it's really important for finance applicants to think about building the rest of their profile from the beginning. You can't just show up, call Julianne for a free consultation and say, I'm applying in two weeks or in two months or three months. What do I do now to differentiate?

Julie-Anne Heafey 20:39

Yeah, what do I start? You have to pull out what you're already doing. I think that's a big thing, is that people just um think about their, they have the resumes that they have for their industries and they know the keywords that they need to do or they know the deal lists that they need to show. And I have to show this volume of deals that I've been uh working on. But when the MBA commission, uh the MBA admissions committee is evaluating your um your resume, uh, that doesn't tell them what you did within those deals. You have to kind of like pull things out. So if you're in investment banking, you know, you're not just gonna show this deal list, you're gonna show the whys and hows. How did you change the valuation? How did you work with people to market this? How did you find something that others had overlooked? Those are the things that you need to be showing. If you're doing research, I worked in equity research when I started out. And um, it's not just about like the number of companies that you're covering, but like what's the impact of your recommendations? How did you find something that others didn't? Right. Those are the things that you need to be bringing out.

Jeremy Shinewald 21:39

We wrote a book on HBS and Stanford essays. One of my favorite ones in there is about an individual in finance. And he talked about his obsession with puzzling, but with puzzles. So I think you can control F in our in our document and search for puzzle. And uh, and he just he talked about how his passion for puzzles kind of led him into banking and private equity and how. He looked at this deal that was kind of dead as a puzzle and kind of thought, like, how can I riddle through this and revive this? Because there's not enough money in this deal for the, for the, uh, for the seller. And he sort of thought about an interesting way to change incentives and to create a world where this person could get more money out of the deal. And ultimately they won the mandate. And like, it wasn't about a resume bullet point, it wasn't about a multiple. It was like, it was fundamentally about kind of creatively looking at a situation that a lot of people had just left for dead. It was about like it oddly enough, it was about creativity and resilience, not about numbers. And he he was this fellow, um, well, it's in the book, this fellow got into Harvard. And um, I don't think it was like he was a wonderful person in many regards, but this was one of the one of the reasons why he got in, because I think he just he told this kind of like broad personal story and not and and didn't get too into like how that ratio worked or what a waterfall is. I don't even know what that stuff is myself.

Julie-Anne Heafey 22:57

Yeah, or even it's you know, stuff that's like not part of your normal responsibilities for your job, just stuff that you're doing that nobody even notices. I mean, one of my favorite applicants um was um was a guy who was an investment banker at a really high hard-charging firm. Um, and it wasn't about his deal list, but um, you know, they moved offices. It was a really big space. He was trying to build morale and he he he pitched them for a ping pong table. And he was getting everybody in the office to participate in a tournament, including the delivery people, you know, reception. Everybody was in this like standings. And um, you know, when he left, they gave him a parting gift of ping pong paddles with his face on. But it's like that was not part of his job description. It's like other things that you're doing that people just notice about you, the glue.

Jeremy Shinewald 23:53

That's an awesome example. I have someone who fascinatingly, and this person went to Stanford, had basically the opposite scenario where where his his investment bank wasn't observing their own rules around like guardrails for analysts, and he saw analysts being burnt out. Like, do you want to be the analyst who walks into your MD's office and says, like, hey, we have protected weekends at this, at this, at this firm, and everyone's burning out, and you're not observing that. And like, this is something that's really important to us. Like, no one wants to be that person. This individual had the courage to do it, took that risk, and like ultimately they responded and started observing these things, and morale went up. And I was like, that is a courageous stance. And and like that, he didn't talk about deals, he talked about that. He talked about kind of like standing against withstanding pressure, standing against the the the you know, a very strong current pushing him in one direction. I was like, that's a really and that felt risky for him to write about too, and but he wrote about it, and that was a great it was a great thing. So I think you're right. These kind of like other character pieces can really help you to stand out um in your role, in your essays, even your recommendations. If if you're if his recommender wrote about the ping pong table. Yeah, it was the recommender who and so that's awesome because that's a very different recommendation than most people. Oh, you're you know, Harold's analytical skills were second to none. It's like Harold goes to ping pong table and everyone loved him for it. You know, that's a big deal.

Harold Simansky 25:17

I also really speak to the fact that in many ways, for an investment banker or someone's working 88 hours a week, you sort of know what you need to do to be unique. And what I mean by that is many of you, many of you are going to say something like, Well, I work 88 hours a week, so I really don't have time to do something else. So from that perspective, you say, listen, let me be the person who has time to do something else. And right now, if you can tutor a kid by Zoom, two hours a week, that really makes you stand out when everyone else is saying, Listen, I just don't have time for that stuff. I just can't get get out of the office.

Jeremy Shinewald 25:50

Right.

Harold Simansky 25:50

So look for that as an opportunity.

Jeremy Shinewald 25:52

Let's talk about recommendations because you raised a really good point about the ping-pong table. We've got a bunch of similar investment bankers or the small number of equity research applicants or underwriters, whatever it might be. How do you, you know, if you're if you're how do you advise your clients to kind of get more to stand out via recommendation?

Julie-Anne Heafey 26:14

Yeah, I think it just depends on where their strengths honestly are. I mean, you're not looking for the recommender to create something that isn't there, but just I think just pivoting, uh pivoting to what admissions committees are looking for as opposed to the world that they're normally operating in. So it's not just about pure in research, your your your uh universe of coverage of the number of companies that you cover, but how that person made a difference within the group.

Jeremy Shinewald 26:41

Right, right. And I think it's like you've gotta, you've gotta sit down. Cause a lot of these people are sort of like high volume recommenders because they're in environments where a lot of people are asking for recommendations. And so some of them know what they're doing, actually. That that can be an advantage of being in the financial space. But others, I think you even if someone knows what they're doing, you still have to sit down with them, walk them through, and remind them of the things you've done. And kind of I'm curious what you guys think because I think this might be controversial. I don't think that that for most people, I don't think they should be talking about your analytical skills or your ability to build a spreadsheet, because I think that's sort of the table stakes, right?

Julie-Anne Heafey 27:17

Yeah, it depends on the role. Yeah.

Jeremy Shinewald 27:19

Yeah.

Harold Simansky 27:20

Yeah. Listen, HBS always talks about aptitude for analytics, academic abilities, and habit of leadership. Yeah. And at the end of the day, I think it is far easier to show certainly aptitude for analytics. You do a great job in the GMAT. That sounds great. I think at the engaged citizen, there's also something else they look at. Engage citizen, habit of leadership. So this notion of, okay, if again, you're an investment banker, you're working in your cubicle, you're doing fantastic work. But what does that say about, again, your habit of leadership? Are you mentoring other people? There are ways to really bring informal leadership, as well as this notion here, engaged citizen. At the end of the day, business schools are building small communities. They want people that are going to like other people, that other people can work with. And when you're working in such a high-stakes environment, intense environment, I think your recommender has to show that people like working with this person.

Julie-Anne Heafey 28:13

Yeah, definitely. I think one of the pitfalls, though, that you can run into with recommenders is that sometimes people in these roles that aren't, you know, in banking or whatever, they might not have gotten an MBA, they might have gone the CFA route, or they might just be, you know, very technical or just have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and and and reached a high level. And and some of them might not always be super supportive of an MBA.

Harold Simansky 28:38

That's right. That's absolutely true.

Julie-Anne Heafey 28:40

And so that's something that we really have to navigate because I you always want to have that conversation with your client. Is this person supportive of this step that you're taking? And sometimes that means you're gonna pick somebody else.

Harold Simansky 28:53

No, I think that's right, because at the end of the day, if you're a again, private equity investment banking candidate, your boss, whoever's writing you the recommendation, sort of knows what to say and probably has done it before. If you're coming out of the insurance industry and they have never gotten an MBA themselves, or they don't even know people get their MBA, they don't write these recommendations, then yes, there has to be a lot more hand holding as far as those recommendations go.

Jeremy Shinewald 29:15

And I think just so that everyone, in case someone, this this conversation has sent shivers down anyone's spine, you don't need to have your boss as a recommender. Like it's it's great, it's a it's it's good to have, but it's not a must-have. And the admissions committees understand that if you don't have that person, you write about it in your optional essay, and they basically trust you at your word and give you a pass. And so you know, you can find someone else, you can find a client, you can find your previous boss, you their mentor, there, there are lots of other other options for you.

Julie-Anne Heafey 29:44

Yeah, but we sit down and get creative, we map out all the different options that you have, and you can usually find somebody who's gonna be that cheerleader for you.

Crafting Compelling Essays from Traditional Backgrounds

Jeremy Shinewald 29:52

So, in terms of how we work with people to succeed, you know, as as finance as finance applicants, XP, I I think we've touched on some, but you know, like first of all, you have to have a good long-term plan because otherwise it's gonna be hard to stand out. You can't call Julianne a month before and say, can I add community service at this point? You know, like it doesn't work. So good long-term plan, write a resume and essays that people can relate to on a human level. Prep your recommenders, uh, that that that's an important one, and try to make sure that they're writing about you in a way that differentiates you from others, and you know, in a positive way, of course, and uh and allows you to, you know, your your qualitative um strengths to shine. I maybe in terms of the qualitative strengths. Like I think a lot I've had a lot of applicants in the finance space who succeeded by sharing kind of like some personal stories. Like it doesn't always have to be like I spent, I gave the baseball example, you know, I spent three years coaching baseball on the side. It doesn't always have to be that. You can you can succeed you you can share your values and who you are by talking about a commitment you made in your cousin's life to get him through school because he was struggling with his mental health. I'm making it up, of course.

Harold Simansky 31:07

But no, but um listen, more broadly, when you come from one of these finance backgrounds, it is likely you have to work very, very, very hard to craft that essay that's compelling. I I really find that the case because the reality, if you're coming out of a startup, or if you're coming maybe out of a nonprofit, or you're coming out of someplace that's really unique, then at that point the essay becomes a lot clearer. The points you have to make really have to be a lot clearer. If you're talking about an investment banker has to now find that story where they're coaching baseball, then you know what? You have to do a lot of introspection to recognize what is that right story. That makes it for a really hard application to write. I don't want this to be a commercial by any means, but that said, just look at our HBS or our Stanford essay book, and we can really help you find those sorts of stories that are not obvious and do take time and do take a lot of effort to write.

Jeremy Shinewald 31:59

Short answers, I would say, often overlooked. I think a lot of applicants just kind of like copy and paste from their resume, and like the the short answers are another another opportunity for you. Don't just give the same, don't just give that like what do you what's your what's your major accomplishment in your role? Like, oh, I you know, I worked on this deal, I managed eight advisors, we got it done. We learned that already from your resume. Like, give us a little bit of color, give us something different you did. Make sure that you're impactful with every aspect of your application.

School Fit and Why You Truly Need the MBA

Julie-Anne Heafey 32:27

Yeah, I get a lot of people who will put like just the end result, you know, like improved, reached 3% higher performance on whatever front, you know. And it's what they want to know is how did you do that? You know, what are the things that led you to that success? Um, another pitfall is sometimes people will pat themselves on the back a lot in that area. You know, accomplishments got my promotion. Um, they want to know what you did to get that promotion, and it should have a focus that's bigger than yourself. I think a lot of times people can be focused on just sort of like the next rung, but you know, these schools want people who are gonna go out there and change the world in a lot of ways sometimes, or at least have an impact on something bigger than their own office space or career. So um it's not just about, you know, um, returning to I'm gonna go get my MBA, you know, hang out, learn some things and go back and earn some money. It's about what kind of an impact are you gonna have wherever you're going back?

Jeremy Shinewald 33:24

Your interview sort of parallels with your essays. You want to be ready to tell stories that are qualitative, relatable, not just about your work, um, not dry finance stories about uh, you know, how a transaction went down, but talking about your impact. Um, and then I think the other piece, like kind of the spirit of some of what we're talking about today, is really understanding your connection to the school, like not just taking it for granted that like I'm a finance person, maybe I'm going back to finance and I'm going to Wharton and I'm gonna write in a few Wharton platitudes. Like, you've got to really explain why you need the degree, the degree, what you're going to achieve with it, and why you truly need that school's MBA program and the resources you're gonna use in order to get there, because otherwise it just sounds rote and it sounds boring. And you want to get someone show them that you really belong there.

Julie-Anne Heafey 34:11

Yeah. And God forbid you write an essay and it's sent to Wharton and Columbia's in there or the right.

Jeremy Shinewald 34:18

Right.

Julie-Anne Heafey 34:19

And you know, I still write into that.

Jeremy Shinewald 34:22

Yeah. Or or like you're living in New York and you haven't gone to visit Wharton. It's like Wharton's right there, it's a train right away. You gotta show some, you gotta show some effort. Like it doesn't matter. I'm I'm really busy. I work a hundred hours a week. I can't do community service, I can't go visit schools. Like, okay, someone else can. Someone else is gonna find a way because it's important to them. Yeah, so you gotta put your effort in as well.

Final Advice and Free Resources for Finance Applicants

Harold Simansky 34:42

That's right. And by the way, you can certainly say you're going back to the same industry, you're coming from asset management, you're going into asset management. What did you need to learn over two years?

Jeremy Shinewald 34:51

Yeah. And and what sort of skills you're looking for? What's what's your and what's your exciting future? And do you really need that MBA to get there? Like if you can't articulate why you need the MBA, the admissions committee is not going to be excited about you. If you are not a PE applicant, if you were a finance applicant and you're thinking to yourself, how am I going to differentiate myself? Again, I would suggest that you reach out to Julianne, to Harold for a free consultation. You can read many of the guides that we have on our site. There's also On Track where we have specific um sections on for finance applicants for how to differentiate themselves, our uh self-study curriculum. So please check that out. And um, hey, we wish you the best of luck with your applications. They're uh no doubt around the corner, depending on when this airs. There's always a season around the corner.

Harold Simansky 35:36

That's right.

Jeremy Shinewald 35:36

And uh and we hope that you can take some of the nuggets that we've offered today and help them and turn them into a success for yourself. Best of luck. Exciting news! You can now access OnTrack by MBA Mission for free. Take our two-minute onboarding questionnaire to personalize your learning path. Choose the free plan, and you'll have unlimited access to our complete modules on MBA application timelines, standardized testing, your professional background, community leadership, school selection, and more. You'll also get access to select lessons from our brainstorming, personal statement, essay, resume, and recommendation modules. It's a great introduction to the on track platform and will help you jumpstart the MBA application process. Get started today at ontrack.mba mission.com.