Real Estate as an MBA Career Path with Frank Cohen | Ep 107

Is real estate a feasible career path for MBA students? And how can one break into the industry?

In this episode of The mbaMission Podcast, host Harold Simansky and mbaMission Founder Jeremy Shinewald speak with Frank Cohen, a Boston-based real estate developer, co-founder of Sheridan Road Properties, former senior director at Tishman Speyer, and a Kellogg MBA, about how MBA students can effectively pursue careers in real estate, even if they arrive on campus with no industry background.

Frank also co-leads the JL Access Program at Georgetown University’s Steers Center for Global Real Assets, where he partners with the executive search firm Jackson Lucas to help students build the technical foundation and the relationships they need to succeed in real estate recruiting. He is profoundly familiar with what makes MBA candidates appealing to recruiters and what does not.

The podcast conversation addresses the gap between what business schools teach and what real estate firms hire for, what a real estate interview tests, whether a single “real estate type” exists, how regional the industry is, and the networking tactics that consistently produce results. Frank closes with his best advice for any MBA candidate considering the field and provides some candid insight into what still brings him joy in the work, decades into his career.

If you are weighing whether real estate might be a good career path for you or simply curious about how one of the world’s largest and most dynamic industries recruits business school students, this conversation is well worth your time.

Connect with Frank Cohen: https://jacksonlucas.com/frank-cohen/  

00:00 Why Real Estate Tends to Be Less Represented in MBA Programs

01:53 Frank Cohen’s Path from Northwestern Kellogg to Tishman Speyer and Rockefeller Center

04:51 What JL Access Does for Georgetown Students

07:21 The Gap Between What MBAs Learn and What Firms Hire For

10:40 What a Real Estate Interview Tests

14:20 Breaking into Real Estate with No Industry Background 

17:02 How Regional the Industry Is, and the Importance of School Choice

18:37 The Most Effective Networking Move 

Book your FREE 30-minute MBA admissions consultation with Harold or another one of our experienced MBA admissions consultants by filling out this form.

Learn more about onTrack by mbaMission, our innovative, on-demand MBA application platform, and take our two-minute questionnaire to receive your customized learning path.
 
‼️Use code MBAMPOD for 30% off any onTrack subscription‼️

Contact Us:
info@mbamission.com

Follow Us:
YouTube
LinkedIn
Instagram

Transcript

Why Real Estate Tends to Be Less Represented in MBA Programs

Harold Simansky 0:00

Real estate just wasn't a thing at the time.

Frank Cohen 0:01

Relative to other industries, it's it's certainly less prevalent um in the MBA education.

Harold Simansky 0:07

How do you think about preparing a student, particularly an MBA who may be coming from a background that is not real estate?

Frank Cohen 0:11

You're being taught something that you're not being hired for and there's a real gap. We started this program called Jail Access. We can do everything from you know the technical mock interviews to like getting down to, well, this is what you're interested in.

Jeremy Shinewald 0:23

If you're talking to someone in real estate acquisitions and that's your interest, this person knows other people to introduce you to.

Frank Cohen 0:29

It's so much of a networking game. You never quite know where the opportunity is gonna come from.

Harold Simansky 0:47

Real estate is one of the most dynamic and often misunderstood career paths available to MBA students. How do you break into the industry and how can business school help you develop the skills, network, and perspectives needed to succeed? On today's episode of the MBA Mission Podcast, we're joined by Frank Cohen, a Boston-based real estate developer and investor, and co-founder of Sheridan Properties, a boutique investment firm. Early in his career, Frank worked at Tishman's Fire, where he played a key role in the repositioning Rockefeller Center, and he's a Kellogg grad. Frank is also passionate about developing the next generation of real estate professionals. He partners with the executive search firm Jackson Lucas to lead the JL Access Program at Georgetown University, which connects students with industry leaders and helps them build the technical foundation and relationships needed to succeed in real estate. Frank, thanks so much for being here today. Thanks. Really appreciate it. And I'm excited to talk to you about real estate because obviously your career has really had different pieces to it and all related to real estate in some way. So why don't you t take us through, if I understand correctly, uh you and I from the same hometown, Brookline, Massachusetts. That's right. Yeah, yeah. So where'd you go after after you left Brookline?

Frank Cohen 1:52

So I

Frank Cohen’s Path from Northwestern Kellogg to Tishman Speyer and Rockefeller Center

Frank Cohen 1:53

I grew up in Brookline, went to Harvard, um, and then after that, like everyone at that school, kind of not knowing exactly what you want to do, went into consulting, um, did that for about two years, then worked in economic development. Um, I liked parts of it, but didn't, you know, love love it. And my father was in real estate at the time. And, you know, he was I was 22 and not so kind of loving my job. My dad was 60 and still liking his job, so thought there was something there. Um, ended up going to Kellogg for MBA with the idea of getting into real estate.

Harold Simansky 2:29

So you so you had in your mind already that when you went to business school, real estate was going to be something of a focus.

Frank Cohen 2:34

Yeah, so I was kind of focused on going to getting an MBA with the idea of either going into you know more entrepreneurship or real estate. Um, and that's kind of my thesis at the time. Ended up interning with Tishman Spire and then returning full time. So I was there for about eight years, eventually on the development side. And then um that was in New York? That was combination New York and Boston.

Harold Simansky 2:55

Okay, yeah, okay, that's great then.

Frank Cohen 2:57

Any exciting projects we may have uh so uh my last project was uh overseeing the repositioning of Rockefeller Center. Um so that was like seven light square feet. We we did a whole bunch of work. Um it was awesome.

Jeremy Shinewald 3:09

Yeah, that's like a whole podcast. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Okay, so we're so Tishman Inspire. Let's let's let's let you know walk everyone through your through your resume quickly.

Frank Cohen 3:19

So uh it was at Tishman Inspire. Uh when I was there, uh we I started a website where people who work in real estate could add their salaries to uh you know a central database and it would tell you for the position that they're in, you know, how that salary compared to the market to see if you're overpaid and underpaid. Um and and that we we ended up working with an executive search firm to publicize it. Um and through that, it sort of grew to a really good size, a couple thousand data points there now. And then when I left Tishman Spire, we started doing some consulting uh around that. Um and then I also left to do some of my own deals and um found a partner, a business partner uh from uh Kellogg. And so we've done some deals together there. And then, you know, we've also done um uh some of this work with the with the executive search firm.

Jeremy Shinewald 4:18

If you want to be one of our success stories, sign up for a free consultation with a member of our full-time MBA admissions team. Since we've worked with tens of thousands of applicants over the past two decades, we can give you our honest opinion on your chances and help you put together your very best application. That is not a sales call, but rather your first session with one of us for free. We can give you a profile evaluation, answer specific questions about the process, review your resume, talk about your school choices, and so much more. Sign up at nba mission.com slash consult. We look forward to working with you.

What JL Access Does for Georgetown Students

Frank Cohen 4:51

So worked at Titian Inspire on the development side. Um when I left to we left to do some of my own smaller entrepreneurial deals. Um and as we were going through that, because the website that I uh had built when I was at Tition Inspire and the relationship that I had with the executive search firm, um we did some consulting with other companies around compensation with the database that we created. And then eventually I started working with um Georgetown and Jackson Lucas, which is uh the executive search firm. We started this program called JL Access, and we're working with um, you know, that program is working for to help companies come to campus to Georgetown and help the students put their best foot forward when the students uh when the companies come to campus.

Jeremy Shinewald 5:42

Okay, so there's a there's a question I gotta ask based on the fact that you're now working, you've now helped create a program that helps people to find jobs in the real estate world. When you found a job at Tisha Inspire uh coming out of Kellogg, were you using the playbook that you're using now, or would did you do everything the opposite of the way that you would tell someone to do it now?

Frank Cohen 6:00

It's it's it's a I mean, it's this is all the things that I wish we had. And a lot of this is some things that we did, and a lot of this is some things that I wish I had known. Okay, right. So there were some things I was good at, there are some things I was really bad at. And you know, take us through it.

Jeremy Shinewald 6:19

What what did you do well when you were applying yourself and and what could you have done better?

Frank Cohen 6:22

Well, I th I mean I thought that, you know, we were in Chicago, I wanted to be in New York, um, and you know, I felt like it it's hard to get these jobs, and so you know, the only thing I could do is kind of work a little bit harder than everyone else. So so I did a lot of networking. I'm I flew, you know, to New York to meet folks, um, just kind of that little extra thing. Um, and I think that worked really well. I think some of the things that I was really not good at is um some of the interviewing. And so, you know, I I I now know what people are asking when they ask questions. Right. And and you know, be beyond the question itself. Exactly. Right, exactly. Yeah.

Harold Simansky 7:05

Yeah, yeah. And we'll we'll take you through some of these. But uh at this point, so you in fact you said that now at Georgetown, this is exactly what you're helping, helping people with. So when I was at business school, Jeremy, I bet you you saw the same thing that I did, which is just real estate. I don't remember courses around it. I don't even remember the first time.

The Gap Between What MBAs Learn and What Firms Hire For

Jeremy Shinewald 7:21

There was one class in Darton when I was there. It was a second-year class taught by a now retired professor. And basically everyone took it because it was sort of like a general survey of real estate. And that was it. And I had one friend of mine who still remains a very, very close friend, who was determined to go into real estate and kind of found his way on his own. Another fellow in my class um found his way on his own. Now that I look back, I I, you know, sort of track my class a little bit. My one of my learning teammates is the CFO of a REIT, and and and another classman of mine is the CEO of that REIT. None of these people had any help for those who were in school. And like, I, you know, I don't mean I don't mean to to to to I'm not certainly not bad talking at the school, it's just like where the schools were at the time. Like real estate just wasn't a thing at the time.

Frank Cohen 8:02

Yeah, and a lot of it now is it's kind of it's interdisciplinary, it's it's like not really necessarily housed exactly within the MBA program. It's whether it's its own center or something like that, or you know, some schools have very active clubs, but yeah, I mean the the relative to other industries, it's it's certainly less prevalent um in the MBA education.

Jeremy Shinewald 8:22

Trevor Burrus, Jr. That's what about a 25-year bull run in uh in real estate, I guess. I g I guess it's now becoming more popular. Yeah.

Frank Cohen 8:29

Yeah.

Jeremy Shinewald 8:29

So so in um how in our Georgetown class, I mean, how many students are there who are into who are real estate track upon graduation these days?

Frank Cohen 8:38

Aaron Powell Well, so Georgetown, you know, they've got this unique the steer center um for global real assets, and you know, that they work, it's within the business school, uh, but the business school is both undergrad MBAs and the they have the one-year master's program. Um so across all three of those, there's about a hundred students who are kind of dedicated to to pursuing the the industry.

Jeremy Shinewald 9:01

That are part of your program or that are Yeah. Oh wow, that's that's that's really something. And and I'm all over the place here, but uh so to Harold, go ahead, jump in.

Harold Simansky 9:08

Yeah, no, I was just gonna say so as far as prepping these students go, what's really one of the big issues here? Can you find recruiters to come to campus? Do they have to send them out? What do these interviews look like? What what is how do you think about preparing a student, particularly an MBA who may be coming from a background that is not realistic?

Frank Cohen 9:24

Well, I think, you know, the Officer Curse Services does a great job. I think there's, you know, they and they they kind of specialize in the situational stuff at Georgetown. So, you know, the general tell me about yourselves or putting together resume. I think where we come in is is really tailoring that to um to the point like what are these people looking for when they ask a question in a real estate interview? Um, and you know, we can do everything from the technical mock interviews to like getting down to, well, this is what you're interested in, this is what your experience is, this is what people in real estate firms look for. So here's how you can map one to the other and actually tell a narrative rather than just say, I I like this, therefore I want to go into that, um, or have an inkling, you know. Um and so that that that stuff has been really helpful. You know, the things that we do is so we've got individual coaching sessions, which are kind of 30-minute blocks, we have career fairs that we plan, and we're doing regular uh interview prep groups where we kind of go through, you know, here's here are the basic, you know, level one type you know, technical interview questions that are asked, and we'll just keep going through it until you know people can speak fluently.

Harold Simansky 10:39

That makes

What a Real Estate Interview Tests

Harold Simansky 10:40

sense. So when I was at business school, obviously there was the consulting interview, it certainly was one flavor. Investment banking, different type of flavor. Uh, I know listen, you went into consulting, and is there a flavor to a real estate interview? Is it different from a you know a case interview you may have done with g with a consultant pro?

Frank Cohen 10:56

Yes. I mean, I think there's there's the you know, the fit interviews are largely the same, right? Like tell me about a time where you impacted a team, tell me about a time when, tell me about yourself. I think you know the the real estate thing is is two things. One is I think folks are always looking for a demonstrated interest in it. Yeah and that's not necessarily um, you know, you've always worked in it, but at least a clear narrative of what you were doing before and why you want to do what you're what you're applying to do. Uh, and then of course, you know, there's the the technical interview of how do you value a building, which is um, you know, it it's it's you don't get that in a in a normal consulting interview.

Harold Simansky 11:39

No, no, no. And that's hard to get to. I think back again to where we almost started the conversation. It's like I don't remember a real estate curriculum, especially at business school. So that's sort of the place where you where you'll step in and say, okay, yeah, here's here's how we're gonna help you, this is how we're gonna teach you.

Frank Cohen 11:53

Yeah. And what what we found is that you know, the the MB education is really good, or the graphical education is really good at at the you know the deeper questions, but people are being hired for not that. Right, right, right, right, right, right. And so there's a gap between, you know, the the graduate education is developing your business sense and and but you're not being hired for that. And so like you're you're you're being taught something that you're not being hired for, and there's a real gap in kind of what the people are looking for when they're making hiring decisions. And and I think that's where we step in.

Jeremy Shinewald 12:33

So could you put a maybe a face on on that gap? Like I I mean you're saying that the technical skills are are s are sort of are expected, but maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but maybe aren't taught as well because of a lack of realistic curriculum?

Frank Cohen 12:46

I I think, yeah.

Jeremy Shinewald 12:46

I mean, I think that's I don't think that's a Georgetown thing.

Frank Cohen 12:48

I think that's that's exactly and and look, I think Georgetown actually does a better job than most in in being responsive to students and they they care a lot and and they like want to do that. So they do all those extra, they're doing modeling tests and and a lot of folks are doing it. Um and and Argus training and all that stuff. But I just think broadly speaking, right, like the the graduate education is you're you're role-playing in these case studies of like what you are doing as a leader, but you're not if particularly if you haven't done the the the work, you're not being hired to lead anything. You're being hired to put together all the inputs to facilitate a decision for the leaders. Yes. And those are very different things to do. Right. And so, you know, uh, and as folks are getting older when they go to MBA, like they're they're competing against people who have been doing the work um uh you know directly for the lateral hires. And so it's it's it's slight, it's a bit of a different um we found a gap.

Jeremy Shinewald 13:53

So let let's let's say I'm some someone like you, I guess. Let's say I have a background, um, you know, I'm analytical, um, you know, business oriented, but I have no real estate background and I want to get into real estate. I'm coming into an MBA program or a master's degree program. Well, like what is your advice for that person to to to try to develop the skills or knowledge base to make themselves marketable upon graduation?

Breaking into Real Estate with No Industry Background

Frank Cohen 14:20

First, I would say, you know, for better or worse, like try to find an internship in the semester, even just as a signaling mechanism, right? So I actually did that when I was in in in in MBA and it works super well, right? Because in the sense of you don't have a demonstrated interest or you have, but working in it immediately you do, right? Regardless of whether the skills you actually have. And so I think that's a big thing. And the other stuff is is you know, trying to talk to folks to really understand what you want to do, have a really clear perspective, and then from there learn and you'll you'll ask the questions to which you're genuinely interested in to refine your you know knowledge base or what you think, and then just from that, just keep kind of going deeper and deeper through conversations. And frankly, now like with with AI, there's so many skills that you can that can you can learn yourself ahead of the thing. So, you know, these technical interviews, like it if we we can do these mock interviews with students, but without that, I think you can get pretty close with um you know some some prompts.

Harold Simansky 15:25

Aaron Powell Listen, I think there's always this stereotype about at business school, oh, he's more of a consultant, he's more of an investment banker type, he's more of a market type. Is there a real estate type or an MBA in who's going into real estate? What do they look like? What do they feel like?

Frank Cohen 15:40

And again, I'm asking for bit, I know it's a huge generality here, but well, I think what's what is great and also challenging about real estate is that there's so many different facets, right? So the finance, like most of the MBA types, there's probably a role for them in real estate if they were to you know be aware of it. So you know, the marketing type would be in theory, like the leasing or or you know, on the side. You're on the finance side, it's the investing side or like the debt capital market side. So to say there's one real estate type is uh yeah, there's just so many different folks, but you know, the the MBA type is typically more analytical, more finance oriented.

Jeremy Shinewald 16:24

Are there are there even like sub sub sub sub sub-archetypes to that where you're like there's like a maybe a development type of person or a private equity type of person or a um you know a friend of mine from business school just went out and put together his own tidy fund and and and started buying up strip balls and uh and was I would say entrepreneurial more than like a finance guy. You know, so I guess there's just there's so many exactly you know, it's uh real estate isn't a discipline. Yeah, um, it's more uh you know, it's an industry. And so there's just so many ways of of finding your on-round.

Frank Cohen 16:57

Right. Which is uh in in some ways why it's tricky to teach quote unquote real estate. Right.

Harold Simansky 17:01

Right.

How Regional the Industry Is, and the Importance of School Choice

Harold Simansky 17:02

Right, right. No, no, that that makes sense actually. Is it still a regional business, do you think, Frank, in the sense of if you go to a Georgetown, okay, Georgetown, Washington, D.C., obviously great city, maybe it opens up New York, Boston. But do you have to go out to USC or UCLA if you want to be in Los Angeles real estate? Do you have to go out how much of a regional focus is there actually?

Frank Cohen 17:21

I think that helps a lot. I think that helps a lot. Yeah. You know, I think there's probably there's a few firms that are truly global, and there's a ton of firms who are regional and even more firms who are local. And so, you know, there there are like limited number of jobs who where you can be in one place and get hired in another part of the country. But I think by and large, just A, that it's such a relationship-driven industry, and and B, like there's so many more smaller regional uh companies that you know if you want to be in a place where you graduate after you graduate, I would, I would highly recommend that you go to a school in in that region.

Jeremy Shinewald 18:08

So you're talking about how how networking was really critical to you finding your way uh into the space. Networking for for you know it's such a boogie amount of a word for so many people. And I guess that's because it no matter what people, you know, what people say to you, it's just still seems hard to put yourself out there to you know to cold call someone, whatever it might be. What's some of the advice you give to the students about starting to develop a network in in this space?

Frank Cohen 18:36

We

The Most Effective Networking Move

Frank Cohen 18:37

we always advocate just to do more of it, right? Um I think we also advocate to start with a uh a true perspective on on where you want to go. Well, by that I mean like, you know, if if you think you want to be in acquisitions in Miami, right? Like have develop a perspective on why that is, and then find people doing that and ask them about it. Right. So there's a bit of a meatiness to that discussion rather than hey, like I see you work at this place, like you have a job for me. Right, right, right. It may or it may not be interesting. Yeah. And so having a little bit of a an agenda in of what that meeting will look like, and maybe a specific ask coming out of it, and maybe some questions going into it, would I think that you know gives people a little bit more?

Jeremy Shinewald 19:33

It's funny you say the agenda. I always, whenever anyone asks me about networking, I I always say, at the end of every meeting, just ask if there's anyone else that they might introduce you to. Exactly. Like that's the easiest way to start building your network. This person knows you're what you're you're finding it hard to build your network because you don't know anyone in this space. This person knows tons of people in this space. And if you've got that narrow ask, you can, you know, this this person, if you're talking to someone in real estate acquisitions and that's your interest, this person knows other people to introduce you to.

Frank Cohen 20:01

And the other thing is to make a specific ask. Because if you say, hey, do you know anyone? I mean, most people they want to be helpful, but it's hard to for them to be helpful without some direction. And so, you know, you're sure you got a just talking now, you sound like a gazillion people in your Rolodex, but it, you know, if I say, Hey, could you help me? Yeah, how would you how would you know how to best direct me? Right. First hours they say, I really want to work at a REIT, you would have at least those two people, right? Right.

Harold Simansky 20:31

All right. Yeah, that that's right then. So um, Frank, how things changed over the last one, three, five years in terms of both what's happening in the real estate market, in terms of maybe AI even being a piece of it, in terms of what those first jobs may be available now that weren't available before. Just what are you saying?

Frank Cohen 20:49

Well, so you know, the the last three years I've been out of the big uh institutional real estate world. So can't really speak to how I mean I've heard it's you know, with AI, it's it's uh a lot of folks are pushing there, but I can't speak to that so much. The you know, the end, you know, the the the market has changed a lot for sure. Um, and hiring has slowed down to an extent, although I think we're now seeing a little bit of an upswing. Um, and so you know, hiring's a a lagging indicator. Um, and so as long as there's you know sort of choppiness in the in the fundamentals of the markets, uh hiring is gonna be more selective.

Harold Simansky 21:32

Yes. So Frank, I know most of your work actually is in real estate development yourself. Um what are you seeing? What's your focus? What how are you approaching the market?

Frank Cohen 21:40

Yeah. Um so we it's a good question. We when I left Tition Spire, we had a very defined thesis, uh, which was gonna be, you know, uh uh life sciences or industrial in the mid Atlantic. And you know, that that we left in twenty twenty two and we closed our deal then, and that has changed a little bit. Um And so, you know, we're now doing ground up for sale residential homes. Residential. Yeah. Okay. In Project North Carolina. Uh, and then me being here in Boston, we're um doing some stuff around here.

Harold Simansky 22:12

How do you like residential?

Frank Cohen 22:14

It's I mean, look, it's it's what what we're doing now, we're doing the rezoning, we're doing the um we're we're doing the rezoning, we're doing the the the horizontal construction and delivering these lots to home builders.

Harold Simansky 22:26

Okay.

Frank Cohen 22:26

Um so you know, w we don't deal so much with the individuals on the residential side. But yeah, look, I mean, I think there's something great about being able to, you know, address the structural imbalance of homes in the US. And and you know, that feels good.

Harold Simansky 22:43

Yeah, no, no, terrific then. Great then. Well, if I was a MBA student graduating right now, looking at what real estate, what should be the one thing I do just to make sure I get a job?

Frank Cohen 22:54

I would say start early. Um, I mean, it's it's so much of a networking game, and it it's it's the more you don't you never quite know where the opportunity is gonna come from. So it's better to to have you know more shots on goal than not, because the you know, the the more you try, the more likely, you know, the the luckier you'll be.

Jeremy Shinewald 23:19

So you're eight years deep. You said at the beginning that you saw how much your father enjoyed his work. Uh so I'm gonna ask you a two-parter, and this is Harold has a has a knack for asking some really wacky questions. I'm taking a Harold-like risk with this one. What would you say is I'm curious if your dad is still is still in is still experiencing exhibiting the joy that you that you witnessed, and uh and I'm curious what's bringing you your own joy as well in this at this point?

Frank Cohen 23:46

I think he's a a lot of a lot of folks uh at his age now are are you know winding down and and and and retired. And I think you know he he'd like to be working for as long as he he can, so that's you know a good sign. Um and I think you know for me what brings me the joy here, yeah, there's there's so many pieces and moving pieces here around um in in a real estate deal. It all comes together like on one piece of land or one you know physical asset. And just just you know, getting everyone around the table and understanding what what they're solving for and then how that can work for everyone. So so the puzzle, right? Like put solving that puzzle is it's it's challenging, it's fascinating, it's um, and when it works, it's it's very satisfying.

Harold Simansky 24:35

No, no, Frank, this was really terrific. Thanks a lot for speaking with us today.

Jeremy Shinewald 24:39

Thank you guys for making the time.

Harold Simansky 24:40

Of course, of course.

Jeremy Shinewald 24:41

Exciting news! You can now access on track by MBA Mission for free. Take our two-minute onboarding questionnaire to personalize your learning path. Choose the free plan, and you'll have unlimited access to our complete modules on MBA application timelines, standardized testing, your professional background, community leadership, school selection, and more. You'll also get access to select lessons from our brainstorming, personal statement, essay, resume, and recommendation modules. It's a great introduction to the on track platform and will help you jumpstart the MBA application process. Get started today at ontrack.mba mission.com.