In this episode Kelly and Tiffany share the transformative and redemptive birth story of a second baby.
In this episode you’ll hear:
00:00 Introduction
01:35 The Birth Story
02:40 Personal Experiences & Challenges
01:20 Transformation & Redemption
13:32 Power of Choice
14:52 Celebration of Mother's Strength
34:04 New Childbirth Education Course
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Browse all our favorite women’s supplement recommendations: HERE
Submit your answer-on-the-show questions: HERE
In this episode Kelly and Tiffany share the transformative and redemptive birth story of a second baby.
In this episode you’ll hear:
00:00 Introduction
01:35 The Birth Story
02:40 Personal Experiences & Challenges
01:20 Transformation & Redemption
13:32 Power of Choice
14:52 Celebration of Mother's Strength
34:04 New Childbirth Education Course
Join our email community + get instant access to our awesome Sleep Freebie: HERE
Browse all our favorite women’s supplement recommendations: HERE
Submit your answer-on-the-show questions: HERE
Welcome to At Home with Kelly and Tiffany, where naturally minded women gather together as we pursue simplicity and confidence in health alternatives, so we can show up better in our busy lives and feel more at home in our bodies. Join your favorite home birth midwife duo for conversation, candor, and community.
Hey ladies, you are at home with Kelly and Tiffany I'm Kelly I'm Tiffany. And here we are. Together. I'm so excited. We're doing another one of these episodes. Yes. So we are continuing on in our You know, walk down memory lane of sharing birth stories, but from our point of view in births that have actually happened within our practice. And it's crazy because after a birth or expecially in the first few years of our practice, we had to debrief a top one. Yep. So all of these experiences should be like so ingrained in our brain. And quite honestly, I think about a lot of them often. But getting to dive into it again, just brings back like all the things that were happening at the time that this birth was taking place and like our personal lives. And I mean, it's just a. It's an Ebeneezer for like what that year or that season was like. Yeah, for sure. And this one in particular. Stands out in such a way that you really witnessed like the transformation and the redemption that can happen within birth. And that was just a really sweet thing for me to go back and be like, Oh, yeah. Like this stuff really does matter. So we get to share birth with you guys from our perspective, because most of the birth stories that you have heard ha. Probably been in the hospital, right? The majority of, I mean, the vast majority of births that are happening in the United States are happening in the hospital. And so it's sweet for us to be able to share not only for our own. Benefit because we get to reminisce and really chat about some of the things that like we have walked through, but also hopefully for years that you most likely, as I was walking through, this was like, I think a lot of listeners are going to understand where she was at. As she processed some of the things before she even, you know, Chose homebirth and moved forward with her birth and all that stuff. So I'm excited. Yeah, me too. Yeah. So you had mentioned kind of thinking back on, like what was going on in our lives at the time, there was a lot going on, not only in starting our practice in 2019, just. Just lots of like, personal things that were happening in our families. One of which does play into this story, which I sort of forgot that it actually really did play into the story. Was that a couple months prior to this birth, I broke my arm. And not like, oh, I need a cast because I broke my, you know, Wrist. Sorry, if you've broken your wrist, I'm sure. But you're just a big baby in your injury. Doesn't count. Sorry, I've negated your entire experience. But no, I broke my, I fractured my humerus, which is the bone that goes like from your elbow to your shoulder. I broke it right at my shoulder and not just like, oh, that'll hairline fracture, which still would have been terrible. It fractured all the way through the bone. And I'm not kidding. When I fell down and knew that something happened. I was like, I don't think there's a more painful thing in the entire world than what I'm experiencing right now. Your husband brought you a cup of wine. While you were laying on the ground, trying to decide what to do. He must've known that no matter what was going to happen next year. Just needed, like some medieval. Pain management. I literally, I was like, I don't know what else to do, but I need some thing actually. He had torn his Achilles the year before. Also. I was like, there's no way anything can be more painful than that apparently, but there are other things And I was able to grab some of his old pain medication. I'm pretty sure it was expired, but I was like, I don't care. Give me that. I'm going to drink. It was, it was bad. Yeah. My wine. My expired Cody. It's going to be great. And then we'll go to urgent care. Yep. And that was a long, long recovery, which again, plays into this, but it got me thinking about painful experiences. And I don't know if I know yours, but I would like to know what the most like. Painful. Physically. Thing that you've been through. That's hard to say because I'm very accident prone. Yeah. I've had some accidents since we've known each other, but I've had a lot of accidents before we knew each other. I think it was going through like getting used to my puberty body for like 20 years or so. But initially my first thought is childbirth. that was that's. That was a significant amount of discomfort. Both times. Yeah. We're covering from us. This Arion is its own level of ouchy. That's probably the time in my life that I took. Oh, no, it's not. I'm trying to measure it by how much drugs I took. Yes, exactly. It wasn't. My actually the most drugs I've ever taken was for my hand. I fell through a glass table. Not not great, really not great. And then it got infected. And so I needed two surgeries just to heal from this stinking thing. And it is. It was completely insane to think back to this time in my life, because I cannot believe we did it, but I moved in with my mom. I think I'm like 20, or I'm thinking like 20 or 21 or something at this point. It's 2007. Okay. Like 20 or 21. And. My hand situation was such an ordeal. I moved in with my mom because she is a nurse. She worked in ICU for 35 years. And I needed is to avoid staying longer in the hospital. I, or to avoid me going into outpatient every single day. They gave us instructions for my mom to take care of me from home, which included the most horrendous. I V antibiotic schedule. I had a PICC line in my arm so that I could get IB antibiotics. I have a lot of feelings about that. But still processing. Wound was so absolutely disgusting that it had to be packed with gauze twice a day. And it would be like yards and yards of gauze. You're mocked into my hand and your mom was doing. My mom was putting them in and taking it out and I would have to get absolutely loaded before we would do those, those packing and unpacking every day. And I just remember sitting at the kitchen table. And I would just take as much pain medication as I could leading up to that. And that was a huge part of whether or not it was time to do the thing or not. And I just remember crying and my mom crying too, and she's like, I've done so many. Bad terrible things to people, but my own baby girl. Do you want me to stop? And I'm like, no, you have to keep going. Otherwise I won't have to go in the hospital and they're going to do, oh my gosh. Anyway. Not to completely. No, this is great. Dive. Into that piece of my life there, but that was really painful. That is terrible. I don't think I've ever heard the story of how you fell. Oh, it's really, it's really good. It's almost as stupid as you breaking your arm on a hoverboard. Yeah. I skipped over that part. Well, since you're asking me. How I broke my arm. I was chasing a cat in my living room. Like for fun or trying to get the cat. I don't I for fun ish, I don't. And I lost my balance. Maneuvering around my coffee table. And so I put my hand down, it was a glass top table. I put my hand on the table to balance myself in the con. The entire table broke cheese. It is not good. No, it's not. And so then my husband is like, oh, this is really bad. It was like bleeding, like absolute crazy. And I'm like, yeah, you got to take me somewhere. And he in his, you know, blessedly, he was trying his best to get me to the ER, but where we lived in San Diego at the time. Kaiser hospital was on one side of the street and all of their outpatient offices were on the other side of the street. And he took me to that building first. And I was like, no. That's not going to work. No, we got to go to the emergency room. And I just remember, like not being okay. Just bleeding all over the place. It was amazing. I didn't like Nicky tendon or anything in my hand. Yeah. I needed a lot of a lot of therapy, physical therapy after that. And I still can't use my hand properly. Yeah. I have to do vaginal exams in a specific way to not. Mess with it. Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, Good times. I just thought we'd start on this episode off with some lighthearted fun. What is this episode even about? That's a birth story. It is a birth story. And I was there with, I think I was out of my sling by this point, but was still not that. Not that helpful. So we brought our friend, Christina with us. Yes. Because she was a student midwife and we just had this feeling like we should have another person there who had two arms that work. In case I needed some help with anything important. Yeah. It was like, if there needs to be like heavy lifting that for some reason her husband couldn't help us with, or we just needed to make sure that we had two extra people who can do. All of the things. So yeah, so we invited her, invited her friend. That was great. Yeah. Which is great. Okay. So this mom as the title shares, this is her second baby. So she was a previous client of mine when I was a student, which was really sweet. Actually the first one that we shared was as well, which is interesting, but her first birth. Was planned to be at a local birth center and I've never told her this, but her labor was one of the longer ones that I had attended as a student midwife. And Was actually the first Ivy that I ever placed in somebody who was not like. Well letting me practice on them or like actually in labor. And it was, I was terrified, but did you do it? I did it. I did it, but it was like we pulled out every single stop that we possibly could for this mom. And it was a part of the first transfer that I was a part of as a student midwife. So that felt really big to me as well. There was no like It wasn't an emergent transfer. It was just an exhausted mom who just needed to sleep. Right. And so, I learned a lot in that labor. Just as a clinician, I'd have been a part of those births a lot as a doula, but like, Just it's a different, you know, different spaces as a student. But learning a lot about processing disappointment. And even bits of trauma from her experience. W of what happened in the hospital in particular from kind of like the midwifery perspective. So it really was that birth in particular was really impactful. In that way for me. Yeah, which is like, it's cool to, to see that. And then it's even cooler that she came back for more. And I remember us, I mean, she came back for more midwifery care, right? And I remember us sitting there for almost every single appointment we needed to process again. Is this the right decision? What if something happens and I'm dreaming of this thing that doesn't go right again. And what if it's my body or something, or can I even handle something going wrong again? Or, I mean, it was just a very real. And understandable processing of all those things, but like, ultimately just so proud of her for. Being willing to. Choose it again and still say, I'm going to look at this in a whole different light. If I can. And. And still choose. The thing that I think is right, even though I'm afraid. Yes, absolutely. Which was so powerful for us. And I'm certain that there are listeners who are like, yep. I totally understand that. I wanted one thing in this birth experience, it went completely sideways. Do I want to put myself out there again, because that is, it's a very vulnerable place to allow yourself to kind of. Dream or whatever, or plan for something like that. Again. And it was a really emotional consultation that they had when they came in to chat with us about some things. And in particular, one of the things that she said, I think has stuck with probably both of us, but she said in particular, like in terms of moving forward with this next birth experience, what she wanted to feel like, and she was like, I don't want to feel scared. I just want to feel strong. And we were like, Yeah. We can do that. Yeah. Like we can help you feel strong. Yeah. We can be here to support you. No matter what great this this kind of looks like. So, can I say one more thing about that? I think that sometimes when women are looking at midwifery care and they see it offered in a home birth setting, in a birth center setting, it all looks the same to them. And that is really not usually the case. And so one thing that this mom had advantage of and choosing us as her home birth midwife providers that she didn't have with her birth center. Midwife provider just because she was at the birth center of facility. There's rules and restrictions and regulations. About timing out for certain things. A lot of birth centers, not all of them. And some home birth midwives have those, those timings and restrictions do. And sometimes timing has nothing to do with that. And moms just decide, I just want more help, but as you're looking at your options and you're potentially considering a birth center, really understand what you're agreeing to in that. There may be things like you can only be here for 24 hours that. Would impact your story, completely impact your story? Yeah, absolutely. And we even noticed that when we practice in a brick center for a little bit, and it's a different level or space of even what we wanted to do, like as autonomous midwives also. And so, you know, it's, it's helpful to be aware because. It, like we talked about in the, you know, choosing a midwife episode as well. Right? Like understanding what you really want from your birth and then working out from there doing all that kind of research. So. So fast forward. Months and months, she hired us when she was like pretty early. Pregnant. So she was one of the first that we got to like really in our true practice, like sit and have her come into our office and all of that good stuff. But fast forward, right? Until the birth day, she had had sort of an emotional end of her pregnancy just because she was still in that space of trying to surrender and trust that her body was going to do what it needed to do. But she called us and she was GBS positive and she had decided that she was going to elect to have IV antibiotics speaking. And her labor. And so when she called, she was like, I know I don't need you yet, but I'd like to, I like we, I want to move that forward. Right. I want to get my ID cause I know I'm in labor. And so when I get there, The statement was, I know it's a little early, but, and I got there and I was like, No, we're not, we're not early at this point. Like, I'm glad that you called me and I'm going to call my other people now to like come on in. Because when I was there, I started prepping all the things, putting the antibiotics in our Ivy and everything, and I get close to her and she's like, get away from me. Don't touch me. She did not want it. And I was like, okay, I'm just trying to clarify. Is it just that you don't want, like, is this something that you actually want? It was a very interesting place for me as a provider to figure out. Yes. You said when you were like in your sound bite, that you wanted a thing, but now we're here and you don't, you're telling me you don't want the thing. So, what do I do with that? Right. I remember I was talking about it in the moment and we were like, she needs to like, look at us in the face and say, I changed my mind. Yes. But, but such a Testament to where she is at in her labor. And, you know, thinking you want something. And then just being like, whatever I thought was important or that I cared about before it is all out the window, because I cannot imagine focusing on anything else besides the work that I'm doing to bring this baby here. Yeah, so it kind of stretched us, I think, in that particular way. And it was a, it was a good experience in that because I was like, no, of course. Your who cares, what you've signed or not signed? Right. How do you feel in this moment? But she did give us the eyeball. Like, I don't want this. Her husband was like, clearly she doesn't want it. And we were like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna move past. Actually, we noted that we did just sort of like double-check. You know, maybe like half an hour later or something. But so in our charting, That's funny. We were probably so nervous about. I'm going to present, which is really funny. Looking back at the way we charted at the beginning of our practice, we were we're, we're very thorough in what we chart now. It just looked different. And I think we were. Maybe more defensive or something in our. Assessment of that. I'm sure we'll, we'll re we're also trying to figure out, like I. We're just like baby midwives at this point. Right. And just try to do everything right. And yeah. Yes. So, so she's laboring so well, laboring, particularly in the bathroom, in and out of the shower, on the toilet. The tub is ready for her, but she wasn't. Ready for it yet. And so she's, you know, just kind of walking around her room, talking about the labor itself. Like this is really intense. She had a doula there with her as well. Okay, but the dad was gone for a little bit. Do you remember why. Oh, yes. I completely forgot about that part. I was just telling someone this at their Christmas party a couple months ago. It's so good. Go ahead. So like the dad had this idea. I mean, he is this, like, this is amazing, like a charismatic. Irish dude that like plays in an Irish band and like so full of character in life. And his vision for the birth, the way that he wanted to see the birth go. Was making sure that everyone had French pastries. He was big on the treating us well with food. And so when, so as labor was progressing, he was like, oh crap, I got to go get these French pastries. So he actually left. To go get the French pastries and bring them pack to the birth. And he did make it back. And it was lovely, but pretty funny, but the best part is also, I don't think, I think all three of us are gluten free at the time and couldn't it just. And we're like, this is so great. That's so nice of you. I think we can tell you I'm not going to. We'll put them on a plate or some sort of, yeah. Oh, I forgot about that. It's really funny, but it was wonderful. But eventually she's on the toilet and she's like, I really need to poop. And so she sits there and we're like, oh, this is good. You know, like all the encouraging things that you say at that point. But she really did think that she was pooping. She did not trust where she was at in her labor. So soon enough, she was like okay, I want to get into the birth tub, but she still felt like she's like, ah, hoops not coming out. I guess I'm just gonna get into the birth tub. Right. So within 10 minutes of her being like, I think I need to poop. Her baby was born. Right. So she had this very quick experience. Completely had to surrender to. Like wrapping her brain around the fact of how fast this birth was going in comparison to the painstaking long, like arduous labor that she had with her first. Which again, I think is a very common experience in particular for second time moms to wrap their brain around. What am I experiencing now versus. When I felt this way, last time I still had. Five hours to go or something. Right. How long were we there before she had her baby? Do you remember? Like an hour and 20 minutes or something? And she thought she was calling us early? Yes. And if she had waited to call us when she thought that she, that we were needed, I mean, that would have been, well, that was just a second baby for you. Yep. It is always not always, but it's very commonly Quick and rushed and. Everybody is just like, wow. Yeah. I mean, if there there's a birth that we may miss or are like common in hot too, it's almost always a second birth. And not because they're faster than the third, fourth or fifth baby necessarily, but because moms are always judging. From the first birth. Yes. Which was like took forever changed really slowly went on and on. Right. Yeah, for sure. So baby comes out, they lift baby right on to mom's chest. And she's astounded, amazed that she just had this baby is crying. You know, dad kisses her and then they both sort of realize which we have noticed. Right. Baby's pretty limp. Right. Hasn't cried yet. Isn't trying to make any breathing effort at this point, but starting to pink up a little bit. So we were like, this is that's encouraging, but we gave an entire 60 seconds to wait to see what baby was going to do. Is there. Talking and they're you know, touching their baby and stimulating in that particular way. To see if this baby would actually try to. Have any kind of breathing effort, which the baby didn't. And so that was the first time that we together got to be like, we're going to do a thing, which was. Pretty cool. Yeah. And there was a photographer at this birth, actually, a friend of ours now. And she took pictures before and took pictures after, but she stopped photographing once she saw that there was something, it just, I think just out of respect. Yeah. That there was some kind of intervention that was needed. And not that I would have minded. Pictures of it, but I don't, I'm not sure exactly. What that was, but the picture right after the resuscitation. Is so beautiful because everything is still, still looks calm. Still looks beautiful. Still looks under control. Yeah, you would never have known that something in particular had just happened. Had you not actually been there, which was a pretty cool thing. So baby's still connected to the umbilical cord at this point. Right? Getting lots of good oxygenated blood into it. And we use what's called an ambo bag, which is like a small bag and mask situation on the baby while the baby is still on mom's chest. So we did have to kind of like maneuver baby around a little bit, but didn't have to separate them. And all this baby needed was little help inflating their lungs. Actually, it was just one like good puff of that bag. And baby started you know, making some noise and breathing a bit, but we went through what were, you know, what we needed to go through those first five. Really good. Inflation breasts for the baby's lungs. And this baby came around beautifully very, very quickly. Yeah, and everyone was so happy and just, you know, once they finally processed, like, wow, that just happened. I mean, they're still talking about it five years later. What an impact that made on their family and their marriage and just her ability to just do hard things. And I mean, calling that birth redeeming is like, Such a perfect way to describe. How you can essentially like, just be transformed in motherhood through a particular experience like that. Yeah, absolutely. And so it was really sweet to be able to give them the space that they needed. To like process that witness all of them together, their oldest, like crawling into bed with them, just kind of, becoming and transitioning into this new family. But you can see. In her, in her where you're like, that's what you wanted. You wanted to feel strong and you've got this experience. Like you, you made these decisions and got this experience that. Really did help you feel so strong? I did note and I kind of forgot this. She needed. I did a vaginal exam. She needed some suturing pretty much exactly where she had torn when she gave birth in the hospital. I think probably some scar tissue was there. And I was like, maybe I can do it. And then looking at my, I was like, my arm is just not strong enough to stay. Like I, it was so shaky. Like I could. It was not strong enough to actually stay in that. Yeah, for sure. So we got to talking about like, okay, TIF, you can do it. But then our, our midwife friend, a student friend at the time, Christina was with us and she, you know, very skilled in all of the training of doing so, but we were like, dude, this is a great opportunity to be around people who are not going to chastise you as a, you. We're not your preceptors. We're just here to like help support you in this. And mom was like, oh yeah, for sure. Like, if you know what you're doing, please practice on my vagina. Yeah. Which was so gracious of her. And she had nothing but wonderful things to say about that. You know, experience afterwards and her healing and all of that good stuff, but it was really fun to be a part of Christina's first suturing experience to, yeah. It was, I can remember her doing it and being, and being very nervous and us just being like, yeah, no, you've, you've got it. Yeah, because it will, it's like what you mentioned before. We had been many times. Practicing because you have to practice. That's how you learn. And with our own preceptors, having a lot to say about that. I did work with one midwife. I did learn from one midwife who didn't get as much like didactic instruction and practicing as I did. In school. And so she was always really happy when I, I would suture the burst that we did together. Cause she thought that I just was able to do a better job for whatever reason. So she didn't yell at me and tell me what a terrible. She was just happy you were there. That was like a very positive experience, but Oh man. I have to shift. I have to share one story about that. Real quick. I was at a birth with that. With that midwife. And. That client had her mother-in-law there who was like an absolute disaster, like somebody who should not be at anyone's birth, let alone her daughter in laws. First home birth. I mean, it was just absolutely crazy. So when it was time to. Repair her tear after the birth. She gave, she said, okay, Tiffany's gonna do it. And then she gave the mother-in-law the job of being my assistant. Because she needed to keep her busy so that she would not continue to interfere with all the other things. And you're like, yes, but also, and this lady was like she was another ICU nurse and like around my mom's age, you know, and I'm just thinking. She is going to know if I don't do it right. Yeah, if I'm hesitating or if I'm right and I'm so terrified. And so I just did it and she, and, you know, she helped me and she was just being like her Nori. And knowing selfless, she was helping me. But then I remember going to talk to my mom about that experience afterwards and being like, oh no, TIF. Don't worry. No, like the average nurse has absolutely no idea how to do any of that. Great. Yeah. We never, unless like you're a surgical nurse, like you, you don't see suturing happening hardly ever at the, even at the bedside. And, and I was like, oh, okay, that's good. Cause I was like, so wet. Oh, that's terrible. That anyway. Suturing suturing stories. Ah, my first suturing I'm, as you said, sweating through that, I remember specifically feeling sweat dripping down, like in between my boobs on my back, I was like, oh God. I did a great job, but I talked to the entire time. Cause that's just how I processed that. So anyway, she just had this incredible experience. Her healing was amazing. Her postpartum was beautiful. It was just very sweet that she was able to really start. I feel like too she really just came into her own. I feel like after that, that kind of side of her really started to come out, which I thought was super cool. And then right before we left, dad brought up a bunch of Champaign. I mean another part of his vision, another part of his vision, we did not chart that. Oh, I will never forget. I'll never forget. Yeah. If you offer us a celebratory alcohol after we're done, like doing all the important things, everybody is stable. I was going to say we're about to leave and go drive. I don't know. Well, we're not going to drink. Yeah. Just a little clinky. It was, it was a fun way to celebrate. It really felt like a birthday party. It totally did. And I love that we get to do that at home. I love that. It gets to be whatever the family wants it to be. And that it can be seen as like such a huge celebration. It's just fun. Sometimes it can be so fun. Yeah, for sure. So overall, I mean hurt his willingness to trust the process and actually like respect birth. Respect the idea of being like I'm I'm my desire is worth enough to potentially put myself out there for another disappointment. Like this desire is worth that. And just kind of open herself up to like those new possibilities. Even on my end, I was like, that just felt inspiring to witness. And I'm sure there. You know, again, or as many listers who kind of vibe with that as well. It reminded me though that recently. We made a real about not getting, you know, like the statement of like, well, you don't get a metal, if you have a natural birth, right. We made a reel of somebody like putting a bunch of metals on themselves, right? Like, well then fine. I'm going to give a look at me. I did this thing. And at first. As things do on the internet, it's our own followers or people who, you know, get it, but like it's cheeky. Or like, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I totally hear this, whatever. And then it turned into this like dark, inner web space where everybody just hates us and we are the actual worst. But this actually reminded me of that where I'm like, yes, you get your desire. It doesn't negate anybody else's experience. It doesn't mean that like, You can't put your own metal on for whatever you decided to do too. But like this meant something to me and it transformed me completely. Yeah. Put on as many metals as you want. Yeah. And like, look at this particular woman's. Experience. Is she gonna say that one birth was better than the other. That she, that she liked one birth better than the other, that she felt empowered, more empowered in one birth over another. Right. So like it is okay. It's okay. To assign value to some of that. Right. And it doesn't change anything about the work and tenacity and lessons and growing and transformation that happened inside of a less than ideal circumstance. Or even if someone's opinion of a less ideal circumstance, it just doesn't even matter. But since you brought that real up, the fascinating thing to me about some of the psychology that came through on some of those comments, because some people are, some people are like actually really upset that we would. That we would even make a joke about. How. If you have a natural birth, you can, you know, get a trophy or whatever. It was just a kid. There's so many reasons why. Just from a logical. Fallacy perspective. Yeah, it's just, no, you just don't get to make that argument. But when you really listen to what women are saying, who have had who have had a medicated or more interventive birth and then have had. Less intervention in natural birth. Women who have experienced those two things in their own lives and have the ability to compare. Say they had absolutely no idea how good it could be. Until they experienced it themselves. And so everyone who wants to make the argument of like all birth is good and all, all, all that matters is that you give birth. It doesn't matter how and babies are. Well, you know, blah, blah, blah. You can like yes, of course. Yes, we agree. Yes on surface. We agree with that. Absolutely. But women who have experienced both types of experiences, especially women who were like, I had a hospital birth and it was actually fine. It was actually wonderful. I got everything I wanted. I had a great time bonding with my baby. I was respected by my care provider. It brought my husband and I closer together. I had a wonderful experience and then I had a home birth with midwives and really understood it a whole different way. How. How much more amazing it can be. And so I think that's important. I think we should have listened to that. Yeah, absolutely. And not just negate, it's not it's not putting one thing saying something is necessarily in and of itself, better for everybody. Right. But helping people be aware that like birth can be. Something that is good and worthy and like empowering, but that's just not the. That's not the narrative in our culture. So I think when people have that. That particular experience. It's like, how dare you flaunt that cause birth is supposed to be terrible. This is everybody else's experience. Right? So just an interesting little, a side note there, but she definitely like, as I was making this, I was like, oh man, that reminds me of that real. But if you are listening to this and you're like, dang, I felt connected with like the idea of making new decisions. Feeling empowered in your pregnancy and in your birth, we have a brand new offering for you. We've shared it before on the podcast, but we're in the process of launching our very first childbirth education course. All about having right. The healthiest pregnancy, healthiest birth healthiest postpartum possible all from this lens that we bring from midwifery. So you can hop in on the wait list right now. That link is in the show notes. You're going to get access to really exclusive content and information while you're on the wait list. And then when we officially launched the course this summer you'll have access to a childbirth education course, honestly, unlike anything else that is out there. So we're super excited to get that into your hands and hope to see you there. Yes. Yes. Well here, you will hear you guys know. You'll hear us. More we'll see you and talk at you. Yep. More next week by.