The Book Deal
Motivation and inspiration for emerging writers, helping them pave their own pathway to publishing success.
The Book Deal
Debut Panel: Emma Pignatiello, Kate Horan and Marion Taffe on book deals, writing tips and launch feelings
2025 Debut Authors on book deals, how to debut, writing tips and launch feelings
In this episode of the Book Deal Podcast, Madeleine Cleary delve into the journeys of three 2025 debut authors, Kate Horan, Emma Pignatiello, and Marion Taffe.
- 'Last Shot' by Emma Pignatiello (Penguin Random House, 28 January 2025 in Australia).
- 'The Inheritance' by Kate Horan (HQ Fiction, 1 January 2025 in Australia).
- 'By Her Hand' by Marion Taffe (HarperCollins Australia, 6 March 2025 in Australia).
The episode explores the unique themes and backgrounds of their novels, their experiences navigating the publishing world, and the highs and lows of the writing and editing process. Featuring Kate, Emma and Marion's unique stories about shocking DNA test results, murder plots in wineries, and a 10th-century poetess, the discussion highlights the different paths to becoming a published author, craft advice, and tips for aspiring writers.
This episode's 'Debut Spotlight' is author Nadia Mahjouri, and her book 'Half Truth' (Penguin Random House, 11 February 2025): A daughter searches for her father; a mother for her son. From isolated Tasmania to vibrant Morocco, two women seek the truth about what happened to the same man.
Emma, Kate and Marion also recommend some debut novels for your TBR:
- 'The Safe Keep' by Yael van der Wouden
- 'Everything is Perfect' by Maxine Fawcett
- 'Tidelines' by Sarah Sasson
- 'Whenever You're Ready' by Trish Bolton
- 'Into the Margins' by Gail Holmes
- 'Green Dot' by Madeleine Gray
- 'Anomaly' by Emma Lord.
00:00 Welcome to The Book Deal Podcast
00:42 Introducing the Debut Crew
02:11 Meet Marion Taffe: Historical Fiction Writing
06:36 Emma Pignatiello: From YA Fantasy to Romantic Suspense
12:57 Kate Horan: Unveiling Family Secrets in 'The Inheritance'
32:26 Debut Spotlight: Nadia Mahjouri
34:34 Managing Publicity and Social Media
36:44 Pre-Launch Anxieties
38:47 Post-Launch Reflections
42:04 Debut Author Recommendations
48:17 Writing Tips and Techniques
57:12 Finding Your Voice as a Writer
01:00:26 Conclusion and Farewell
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This is the Book Deal Podcast, where you will discover the inspiring stories of the authors behind your favorite books. No matter what stage of writing you're at, we've got you covered. I'm Tina Strachan. And I'm Madeleine Cleary. And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors, one deal at a time. The Book Deal Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters which it's recorded on. And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging. Hi, it's Madeleine here. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you would've heard Tina and I mention our wonderful debut crew. Essentially, it's a support group for brand new authors. As we navigate the world of publishing together, have you ever wondered what we might discuss? Well, in this episode, you're about to find out. I had the great pleasure of speaking with three wonderful debut authors, Kate Horan, Emma Pignatiello, and Marion Taffe. Kate has a background in corporate communications and was a former English and drama teacher. Emma, who is a current teacher, has a long line of emerging writing accolades, winning CYA and the Veruna Affirm Press Mentorship Award. And Marion was a former journalist and spent her teen years in her family's historic Ballarat home, which was open to the public. Between them, they are covering shocking DNA test results, murder plots in wineries, and a 10th century poetess. At the time of recording, Kate and Emma's books are out on the shelves, and Marion and I are waiting closely in the wings, so this made for an interesting chat. And if you enjoyed this panel style chat, write us a review or get in touch, because we might do some more. Kate Horan. You've been the first of everything this year for our debut crew in 2025 with your book, The Inheritance coming out on the 1st of January this year. So I'm actually not going to start with you. Oh, okay. I'll sit back and relax. I feel like you've been our You know, first of everything this year. So you can sit back and relax. I'm going to introduce firstly, so Marianne Taffe, whose book comes out in about a month recording. So it should be out in a couple of weeks. So Marianne, can you give us the hook of your beautiful historical fiction novel, By Her Hand?
Marion Taffe:I would love to Madeleine and hello everyone. Uh, so my novel, yes, comes out on the 5th of March and it's called By Her Hand and it's about a girl called Frida. And after barely surviving a Viking raid, Frida is taken to an abbey where she finds a passion for the written word. And inspired by the fearsome ruler Lady Aethelflaed, Frida writes her courage and rage into a poem. This poem has the power to forge a kingdom, but it also has the power to destroy everything Frida holds dear.
Madeleine Cleary:Beautiful. That's a lovely pitch, and I'm sure you're going to get used to practicing that over the next few weeks as well, Marion. Um, I'm so glad that you pronounced lady, can you say that again? Athelflad. Athelflad.
Marion Taffe:Athelflad. So her name is spelt with an old letter called an ash, which is the A and the E smooshed together. And I love it. I just You know, have my favorite letter. Um, and it makes a kind of sound that's a little, probably the closest to like the A in Apple. It's like a bit of an AE basically. I mean, we still use it in words like pediatrician, encyclopedia, but, um, it's got a slightly different sound. So it's sort of like an A, so it's Athelflad.
Madeleine Cleary:Now you don't have a background, an academic background, do you, in Old English? Or is this something, how do you go from learning these things? Cause it's not something we commonly learn.
Marion Taffe:It's crazy, isn't it? Um, it's just become a bit of an obsession, but I think it's just, I have always really loved history and I've grown up in history. So I grew up in an old house in Ballarat that was open to the public and it's just full of history. Um, it's been in my family for over a hundred years and my dad's a historian and I just grew up. you know, looking at his pictures of the Book of Kells and, um, and just. fascinated by royalty and the church history and religious history, um, and European history. I'll just, I just love history. So, um, I, I really got into it that way. I think it's more through interest. Uh, and I never even thought of studying history, but, um, I've just always loved it. I love historical fiction, movies, TV, and, um, And this became my favorite period and I, um, and yeah, so I started writing the book and I, I had a sort of. an interest in the period already, but when I started writing the book, um, I really dived into it, um, and found out how much I didn't know. I thought I knew a fair bit when I started, but, um, I knew nothing.
Madeleine Cleary:And, um, in the novel, so Frida, um, who's this wonderful. Um, woman who's, um, wants to see her name on a page in a hand of her own making. Is that something that you've always wanted to do, Marion, see your name on a page? Oh, it's so funny. No,
Marion Taffe:I am not one of these writers who always wanted to be a writer. So, um, and I was lucky because I, I fell into writing. I became a journalist in my early twenties. Sort of by accident. Um, I was rowing at the time and I, I did some rowing reports for the local paper and they offered me a job reporting on sport and it went from there. So, um, I saw my name in print. Then early on and, uh, and probably took it a little bit for granted. People would say, wow, you've got a byline. I'd say, of course I've got a byline. I wrote this story. And, um, so it sort of went from there, but I did not even entertain the idea of writing a book until, uh, Fairly recently actually probably in the past 10 years. I started to think I might like to have a go at this Yeah,
Madeleine Cleary:well, we're glad you have my own Readers particularly of historical fiction, but all readers are just going to love this book I've had the privilege to read an early copy. So Thank you for getting into writing Emma Pignatiello Hello Hello. You are a fan of our podcast. I know
Emma Pignatiello:I am. I'm obsessed with you guys. I listen every week. And now you've let me on. We are
Madeleine Cleary:so, so excited to have you on Emma. Um, you've been part of our crew for a while now, and we've been so excited to watch your journey. Um, you don't, you not only have one book, but two books coming out this year. Is that right?
Emma Pignatiello:That's right. Yes. Actually the second one's coming out in April. So yes. Oh my goodness. I don't know how you
Madeleine Cleary:do it. Do you want to give us the pitch of your book, Last Shot?
Emma Pignatiello:Sure. So Last Shot. is an enemies to lovers romantic suspense novel. It's set in a fictional town in the Margaret River region over here in WA, and the premise is that someone is going to murder millionaire wine mogul Giovanni Barberani tomorrow night, and the only two people who can stop the murder from happening are ex con Maxella Conrad and the Barberani's loyal fixer. Greyson Hawke. That is if they don't kill each other first.
Madeleine Cleary:I love this premise. It's such a fantastic premise. Um, and I messaged you today, today, because, um, I was driving back from my physio appointment and it was quite a long drive. So I like to listen to, or I'm listening to Last Shot on audio at the moment. And, um, there was the, and I'm not going to explain, I won't spoil it. But I'm just going to call it the mudroom scene. So for those. Chapter 31. Chapter 31. It's not going to live up to
Emma Pignatiello:the hype now.
Madeleine Cleary:But that was my companion on my way back from physio and I was like blushing and laughing and giggling and people looking in, I think, at the traffic lights and being like, what is she listening to? And then I had to log on to work. That was really hard. It's
Emma Pignatiello:a good, good, um, scene to get you in the mindset for work. Right.
Madeleine Cleary:So, um, now I read Emma that you wanted to write Last Shot because you found that there weren't enough. Murders happening in romance novels, is that right?
Emma Pignatiello:In a very, uh, yes, in a very short way. It was kind of, normally I get ideas for a story and it comes from usually like three different things. And it's more, it's usually like a better, a better story behind the story. But for Last Shot, it really was, I was a bit burnt out with what I'd been writing. I'd been writing YA fantasy and I was sort of in the middle of this. fifth draft of this crime novel that I was trying to write. It wasn't quite working. I think it was. And now that I look back, it wasn't me. I don't know. There was something not right. And I was looking at my enormous 2B red pile on my bed. And there was romance books and crime books and I was just, I just didn't feel like in the mood for either or. But I was starting to realize the thing that was tying a lot of my manuscripts together and that what I really liked to write was often the like the banter between the two love interests and the the romance side of it. And I never thought of myself as a Romance writer, but I was doing a course with the Australian Writer Centre. Um, and it was all about romance and it all sort of just so that, yeah, the genre all came to me before, I guess, the characters did, which has never happened before.
Madeleine Cleary:You've got a few manuscripts in your bottom drawer. Bottom drawer,
Emma Pignatiello:yes. Um, last shot was Fifth Times the Charm. For me, it was the fifth manuscript. Yeah. And had
Madeleine Cleary:you, what, what, what did you do with the others?
Emma Pignatiello:So, the first one was a, basically I started writing it in high school, um, so it was a complete amalgamation of like Vampire Academy and Twilight and, you know, all those kind of urban fantasy. I think
Madeleine Cleary:all of us have kind of, well, I mean, I've attempted one of those as well, like in my teen years. So
Emma Pignatiello:I loved it, but yeah, it was, and I sort of finished that. Um, in 2019, when I decided to take writing more seriously, the second one, I had a little bit more success with, um, I got a mentorship with a firm press at Veruna, um, which was just amazing. And that was like, it was one of the best, you know, experiences. I've ever had, not just writing. Um, that one, yeah, it didn't, it still needed a bit of work. I wrote a third one, which I didn't do anything with. Um, and the fourth one I did, I did try, um, to sort of, I didn't, I don't think I submitted it to any publishers. I did submit it to a few competitions. Um, and I did. some assessments at the CYA conference, um, just to sort of get a bit of a, a gauge as to if, if it was going down the right track. So I had, I was working on that one, um, when I wrote Last Shot. So it, Last Shot, yeah, it was the fifth one, um, and yeah. The, the one I eventually got a yes with. Did you go through many
Madeleine Cleary:rejections with Last Shot, or was it smooth sailing? Um,
Emma Pignatiello:no, it's, it's, no, it was, the first person I showed it to was my now agent, Danielle Binks. Um, and when we went out on submission, so she submitted it to, I think, eight publishers. I did get, like, some rejections in that process. Um, and then we had sort of three publishers who were interested. Um, but yeah, so there was definitely rejections in the, in the submissions, but in terms of that manuscript, it was, it was far more smooth sailing than the other ones had been.
Madeleine Cleary:I guess that shows though, like, so here you are, you've got, you're onto your fifth manuscript. That, I mean, none of, they're not, they're not. Oh no, not at all. I
Emma Pignatiello:had to learn, yeah, they were my training wheels, I think. And I think I definitely, I still love all of them except the first one. No one's ever going to see that. Apparently vampires are
Madeleine Cleary:back though, so. They are,
Emma Pignatiello:they are. This was witches though, so it was. Witches are very in. It's terrible. The others though, I do, um, especially, um, They're quite romanticy. Romanticy wasn't a thing when I was writing them, but they are, they are romanticy. So I'm definitely going to do something with those two. Um, but the crime novel, I think.
Madeleine Cleary:Okay. I'm looking forward to your future romanticy books. This is going to be great. Kate, do you have any manuscripts hidden in your
Kate Horan:bottom drawer? Well, I actually, speaking of manuscripts, I submitted my second book on Friday. Oh
Madeleine Cleary:my
Kate Horan:gosh! How did you do that? You've launched
Madeleine Cleary:a book and submitted a second one? That's amazing. I
Kate Horan:have, yes, but I'm on quite a deadline because of um, how short the time frames were from when I signed my book deal to when my first book came out. Because I got a two book deal, my second Deadline is actually only, you know, um, five months away. So yes, I know I can see your faces. I know podcasting is not a visual medium, so this won't be able to appreciate that, but everyone just made a sort of pulled a funny face when I said that I only have five months until that deadline. But the good news is I've submitted that. So, you know, hopefully, hopefully she reads it and she loves it. And But, you know, she might come back with some feedback and, and, you know, I might do another little rewrite here or there, but anyway, good progress.
Madeleine Cleary:Huge. Okay. Well, Kate, let's talk about your first book first though. Do you want to give us the pitch for The Inheritance?
Kate Horan:Yeah, sure. So the inheritance is about two women and a dark secret that connects them. 29 year old journalist Meg Hunter arrives in the exclusive town of Hartwell to investigate suspected corruption by Ashworth property. She's also seeking answers to the mystery surrounding why her mother fled the town 30 years before, leaving them with no family at all. Meanwhile, 30 year old heiress Isabel Ashworth is sent to Hartwell by her mogul father to rescue a controversial Um, development of a historic jail and to prove her commitment to the family business. When she's there, her path crosses with Meg's and the carefully guarded secrets of the past start to unravel with the help of three DNA test kits, which mysteriously appear under the Ashworth's Family Christmas tree addressed to the three adult siblings, and nobody knows who put them there or why or what secret it is that they are designed to expose. Um, but basically Isabel starts to question everything she knows about her family and she's drawn to Meg and her pursuit of the truth, but somebody will stop at nothing to keep their secrets hidden. Bum, bum, bum, chaos in shoes.
Madeleine Cleary:How good's that? Marion, you look like you're on the edge of your seat there.
Marion Taffe:I know. I've got Kate's fork, it's just over just nearby. I bought it just last week. So very good. Thank you. Can't wait.
Madeleine Cleary:It's brilliant. And I lived in Canberra for many years and I just pictured the, the South, the Kangaroo Valley, Southern Highlands. Little towns in my head. Like I just, that was what I visualize and it's, you know, an amazing spot and brilliant book. So congratulations. And it's just flying as well. Like you've done so well, but I just want to step back though, before we talk about the release of it. I, I think. All of us in this group, actually, we remember you coming and joining us mid year last year. And you said to us, Oh, I've just signed my contract. It's June and it's going to be out in January. And we all said, what? We pulled the same faces that we just pulled. I think, how have you done this? Yeah, I know. It's
Kate Horan:funny, isn't it? Because, you know, everyone always talks about how slowly things go in publishing. And that certainly was my experience, you know, of all my author friends, you know, often it was. two years from signing a book deal until the book came out. Um, yes, whereas mine was six months, so it was a, I mean this time last year, so what is it, mid February, this time last year, um, I was, my book was being structurally edited by, like, I got a structural edit done, um, and I was waiting for that to come back to me, and I hadn't signed with my agent yet, um, and so that came back sort of end of February, and then I spent most of March working like crazy because I was about to get on a plane in early Um, April and I thought I'm just going to have to get this done before I go and so I did and I sent it off to the agent who was, you know, who I'd been talking to about it at Curtis Brown. Uh, and that was on the Tuesday after the Easter long weekend and she signed me up the next day on the Wednesday. So I got on the plane on the Thursday night and I had an agent, which was amazing. So that was like the first. Big breakthrough. Um, and then while I was away, she sent me, she said, I've got a few little ideas, just suggestions. Do you want me to tell you now? Or do you want to wait till you get back from your holiday? I said, no, no, no, tell me now so that my brain can start ticking away on it. And, um, so then when I got back, I, I made those, you know, sort of tweaks here and there, and it was, It was the end, very, I think it was the last day of May that she sent it out. I think she sent it to eight or nine publishers and she was going on holiday. So she said, take your time to have a read. I'm away for a couple of weeks, come back and let me know on. And she sent, said like 17th of June or something. HQ three days later said, we want to make an offer and we want to publish it in January. So that was it done. So it was crazy.
Madeleine Cleary:I just, yeah, it's just an amazing story. It's, it's not a common one, I would say as well to move that quickly. And how, I'm interested when you said you had been talking with an agent at Curtis Brown, how, how did you find that connection?
Kate Horan:Well, I did the Faber writing a novel course, um, in 2020, and she actually saw an extract in the anthology that gets published, um, after Faber. And so She saw that and she contacted Catherine Haman, who was one of the, the tutors that I worked with at Faber and said, oh, I like the look of this. So she was sort of interested in that manuscript, but that manuscript wasn't quite ready. And that manuscript actually is book two. Right. Um, so yeah, so what happened was she was interested in that. So then when I wrote the inheritance, because I had the idea for this DNA thing and. It just felt to me like a zeitgeisty thing that I should just hurry up and write. Um, and so I just put the other one to the side and I wrote the inheritance and then and I got some mentoring from Catherine Heyman when I was writing the inheritance. And so she suggested that we pick the conversation up again. with Claire at Curtis Brown. And so that was, that was sort of how that, that happened. Um, and so, you know, it was, it was quite a while before that, though, that she, um, you know, it was sort of October. Of the previous year to 2023 that she said that she liked it and I had to wait quite a while for the structural editor who she recommended to be available. And so it was quite a long, slow. There's all these, I think in publishing, there's all these periods of waiting where you just can't do anything to speed things up. And so. That was kind of, you know, a little bit frustrating because I was like, oh, I just want to get the structural edit done and, and keep cracking on with this. Um, but then little did I know that things were about to start moving very quickly anyway, um, as soon as that was done. So it all worked out, but I hope that story is like for people who are listening, who are writing and hoping to get published. I hope that it's Inspiring because I just remember often you'd sort of see people, Oh, that person's got a book to why don't I, you know what I mean? And it's easy to feel like that. But I think that it's just, when I reflect on that story, you just have no idea what's around the corner, like how quickly it all can change and your luck can swing the other way. Um, and that's certainly how I felt. I mean, it still feels like a crazy fever dream.
Madeleine Cleary:Yeah, no, absolutely. But it, you know, obviously you've been working on it. From before 2020 as well, so it's now in 2025, so it's five years, so it moved, things move quickly, but Well, not The Inheritance, The Inheritance, yeah, but But in terms of your developing a
Kate Horan:writing career, you've been investing time and effort Yeah, in um, 2019 Yeah. So properly, you know, seriously trying to write a novel. Yeah. So I definitely put the time in.
Madeleine Cleary:Yeah, absolutely. What was your experience like Marion when you were approaching publishers?
Marion Taffe:Really different. Yeah. Really different decades, but I also started writing in about 2019. So, um, that's interesting. Yeah. But quite a different path. Actually it was 2018. I started just. Dabbling, and I, um, I'll go back and do the publication before I go back to 2018. So I was, uh, yeah, I, I had started trying to write a novel and, um, decided it was terrible and I needed to figure out how to do this properly. So I'd enrolled in professional writing and editing at RMIT. And, uh, and that course was fantastic. And, and I'd be, I'd started writing this novel before, um, I remember I had an excerpt, um, as my entrance, um, sort of as part of the entrance application. And so I just chipped away. at it through the course. Um, and it was great because, you know, through the pandemic, it was, you know, it was just crazy with kids. It was, and, and I don't think if I was doing that course, you know, I don't know what would have happened to my writing otherwise, but because I was studying, you sort of have to write, you know, they give you, they're giving you assignments. If you want to pass, you have to write. And so I was working on By her hand all the way through and just chipping away, chipping away. And then as part of the course, um, we have a subject called, um, towards publication where, uh, we learn about, um, you know, getting an agent and how the publication industry works. And, uh, the very first assignment is that we need to pitch to an industry representative and our teacher, Danielle Binks, um. Uh, organized people to come in and, and we would pitch to them and, uh, Catherine Milne had come in and, and my group of five, we were pitching to Catherine Milne. So Catherine
Madeleine Cleary:is one of Catherine. Yeah. So
Marion Taffe:Catherine's head of fiction at Harper Collins. Um, and she looks after the fourth estate sort of. Crew of, um, of the imprint and, um, Trent Dalton, Holly Ringland. Yeah, just, and, um, I mean, it's, it's also not just the big names. She, she's, her story sense is just incredible. Um, but so she was interested in my pitch and she asked Danielle to make an email introduction and I sent her through some early chapters. And, uh, and she said, you know, thanks for that. I probably won't get time to read it. And I said, oh, well, that's, that's fine. Thank you so much. And I thought, well, that was a really nice little ego boost and what a thrill to have Catherine Milne ask for that. And I'll probably never hear from her again. And then two days later, she emailed me as I was going to bed saying, Oh my gosh, we need to talk. And so that, that happened quickly because I didn't have a full manuscript. And so I was really honest with her right up from the start. You know, this is, this is what I've got. This is where it's at. And I knew I needed to do a lot of work. So she was fantastic. And, um, so it was, It was acquired quite early on the partial, but it was a long process from then because I didn't have a first draft. I hadn't given it to beta readers. Um, and so, um, yeah, so Catherine had it for a while and then it was in development for a while. And then after the structural edit, I just worked so hard on it last summer. And, uh, I thought, oh, there might be another structural edit, but Catherine came back and said, I just love it. It's, that's it. We're off to copy editing stage. So it was, um, moving along then. So, yeah.
Madeleine Cleary:And it's a, it's a, you know, it's a historical fiction. So you've. got a lot of things that you have to make sure are accurate. It's a long book too. So, you know, copy edit in itself is, it's not a simple task, is it? To, to go through and check and we were talking about the waxing and waning moons.
Marion Taffe:Oh yeah. I love the moon. There's a website that's got the moon cycles for, you know, 910 to 917. It's amazing. But apparently I've heard historical fiction writers who say they get complaints when, when they get the moons wrong. So, um,
Madeleine Cleary:yes, that's what my proofreader picked up the, yes, issues with the moon. So that's amazing. I'm going to have to change that. So yes, all those fun things. Um, so Emma, when you signed your two book deal, had you written your second book?
Emma Pignatiello:Yes, I had. So, I signed with my agent, Danielle Binks, um, in 2022. Um, and that would have been in August. And when I signed with her, um, because I'd done, uh, an assessment with her at the CYA conference again, and I had, well, you have to do like a little one line pitch. Um, you have to do your comp titles. Like what is this? What other, um, Books, is this one similar to? And you were allowed to sort of put any other details in that cover page, like if you thought it was part of a series or something. So, I snuck in a little, you know, this is a standalone, but I do have ideas for, um, you know, there's some of the other siblings in the family, um, not romances between them, but, you know, them and someone else, just to be clear. Um, and so I, I'd sort of said that, um, and so she said when she saw me, Let's get the second book written. Uh, can you do, can you do that? I said, of course, of course I can. Uh, and I was looking at my notes the other day and I think I actually wrote the first draft for that one in about three months. So, I wrote the first draft and I got Last Breath to her in January after I'd, I'd still needed like a lot of work, but I sort of edited it quite quickly um, and sent it to her.
Madeleine Cleary:While working full time as well, in your day job. Yes,
Emma Pignatiello:yes, yes. I do, I did have the school holidays though, um, for, for editing that, so that was, that's a bonus about being a teacher. Um, and yeah, so when we pitched it, so that was, that would have been the start of 2023, that I had the manuscript, so two manuscripts to Danielle, and then during 2023, um, We did some edits back and forth between us on both of them, and then in, it would have been October 23, um, she pitched both, uh, Last Shot and Last Breath, uh, as a series with potential for other books. to publishers. Yeah, so it was written.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh my, well, that's good. I'm glad it was because your schedule has been just as hectic. It would have been impossible if it hadn't been written. Absolutely. And, um, so we're talking about before doing historical fiction research. Food for last shot. Tell us about the research. I'm hoping you had lots of winery tours and that lots of them were tax deductible as well. Did you deliberately set it on a winery tour? Yeah, yeah,
Emma Pignatiello:no. I said it, yeah, I, um, I don't have a confession. I don't really like wine that much. Yeah, I know. I said this at my book launch. It was the first time I'd kind of said it out loud. Um, and I think people were a bit Yeah, I don't know how that's going to go down, but I did, um, my, my Nono used to make his own wine and that's kind of where I got a little bit of the idea from like he's not, he is, he's not, he's in the book in that there's a grandfather who's, who's dead, but his name is Emilio, like my grandfather and I did sort of think, well, like his wine was terrible. No, no one would drink it. Um, but I was like, well, what happens if, yeah. What would have happened if it had been really good? Um, but yeah, I, I didn't. And not poisoned as well. And not poisoned, yes. Yeah, Nono's wine was definitely poisoned. The only reason he didn't get sick was, I don't know, he was tough. He was tough. He, we went on till 94. But, um, yeah, so I think I, I did go to wineries though, uh, for the setting. Uh, and I just, you know, as an excuse to go down south, uh, to Market River. Uh, but I do have, um, you know, like friends that drink wine and they were more than happy to. Ha! So I did, and I did a little bit of research into just, I guess, the, um, the logistics of a winery. Uh, and there are sort of like, and this is, this isn't a spoiler, it's sort of there in the book, but there are lots of like secret passageways, um, on the Barberani estate. So that did come from my imagination, but I did sort of have to look at logistically, you know, with sellers and stuff where would. These things be, yeah, so not as much wine drinking as yeah,
Madeleine Cleary:definitely reading both your book, Emma and Kate's saw quite a few similarities in terms of this, you know, this family dynasty, the secrets, I was
Emma Pignatiello:understanding that too. It's interesting, isn't it? That, yeah, they're quite similar
Madeleine Cleary:in that way, the wealthy families. What do you think? Like maybe to both of you, what, why, why are we so fascinated with? With sort of these family secrets, but also this like wealthy, wealthy people.
Kate Horan:I think rich people behaving badly is the best genre of anything. It's like a sub genre. So succession, it can be, you know, drama, it can be comedy, Schitt's Creek. I just love it. I lap it up. If it's got a rich family and, you know, there's something kind of a little bit entertaining about. How sort of slightly out of touch and removed from, you know, the lives of most normal people, but I also think that in a lot of, well, certainly in mine, and I'm not sure, Emma, I haven't read yours, but you sort of seeing the downfall of some of these people is quite. Reassuring.
Emma Pignatiello:Yeah. Absolutely. I agree. And I think I, I'm fascinated with, I guess, shows like Downton Abbey where you've got the, you know, the rich family, but you've also got the other layer, the sTaffe. Yeah. And that was, I think my inspiration for Last Shot was the character that came to me first was, was Grey, who is the, the fixer, the sTaffe member. Can we just say his name?
Madeleine Cleary:Can dulcet tones? Like, cause that's in my, my, my audio book mind. Grace
Emma Pignatiello:and Hawke. Greyson Hawke. Greyson Hawke.
Very sexy. Oh, dear.
Emma Pignatiello:Um, but yeah, so I think I was, yeah, fascinated by that, um, interaction, I think, with the, the wealthy family and the, um, or yeah, not necessarily, like, For people, but their, their sTaffe who are obviously so different to them. Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary:And especially in a modern day setting where having staff is not something that most normal people have. Whereas in Australia.
Nadia Mahjouri:Hi, I'm Nadia Mahjouri, author of Half Truth, published with Penguin Random House. Half Truth is a family drama that tells the story of two women searching for answers about the same man. 22 year old Zara struggling with new motherhood in her isolated Tasmanian home at the bottom of Bruny Island. Desperate for answers about her own identity, Zara decides to travel to Marrakesh to find her father, a man her mother will not discuss. But when she arrives, she discovers he's missing and he hasn't been seen for over 20 years. Along with her extended family, who are desperate for news of him, Zahra tries to untangle the mystery of her father's disappearance, learning about Moroccan culture, politics, and herself along the way. Meanwhile, Hadija, Zahra's grandmother, is also longing to see her firstborn son, Ahmed. Packing her home of 50 years where her son was born, Hadija remembers her village childhood, her marriage at just 11 years old, and the birth of Ahmed when she was just 13. She recalls her son's fiery nature and his passionate fight against the monarchy, and the last night she saw him. The night after a failed assassination attempt on the King of Morocco. This novel is inspired by my own experience of traveling to Morocco in the late 90s with my baby to find my father. And it's a story of motherhood and loss, identity and belonging. Which makes ideal reading for perhaps a book club or anyone who would like to feel like they're traveling to Morocco from the comfort of their home. living room. I really hope you love Half Truth and enjoy meeting Zahra and Hadeeja. Thanks so much to Madeleine and Tina for the opportunity to introduce Half Truth to you all. Thanks a lot.
Madeleine Cleary:So Kate, I think I mentioned before, we've just been so excited to watch you and your book fly, like you were literally the first person to step off the cab off the rank for us. How have you Felt dealing with all the publicity and the hype and the social media. I've heard that the social media can be quite exhausting. It's constant, but how have you?
Kate Horan:I haven't found it too much, really. I think because my book came out on New Year's Day and that meant that the events have been delayed until pretty much February. My book launch was on the 30th of January and that was the first event. It meant that I had January to be, you know, seeing the things that people were posting and looking at Goodreads, even though we're not supposed to and checking that, you know, there weren't any one star reviews there and all of that sort of stuff. So. And then now I'm kind of in the thick of events. I mean, this is the second podcast interview I've done today. Um, and I've got another one this week and, you know, hopefully it was more fun, Kate. Oh, well, there was only me and one other person on the other one. So you've got, you know, four times the, four times the fun. Yeah. So, um, I haven't found it too much, but I mean, I definitely think you've got to just manage the social media side of things. And also I was, I mean, I was trying to finish book two in January and I had children on school holidays as well. It was a little bit like chaos, but, um, yeah, fun. It's actually been extremely fun. And. Yeah. I keep sort of just reminding myself that it's fun because it can be like, Oh, I've got so busy, so busy, but actually it's busy doing all this really fun stuff. And you know, I'm starting at the moment I'm, you know, each day there's an email that arrives that says, do you want to come to this festival or do you want to do this or that? And it's just exciting. Do
you get those emails and you just go, what is this life? Like a little bit, like I am like, wow, this is. This is kind of funny.
Madeleine Cleary:How are you feeling about it,
Marion Taffe:Marion? Yours
Madeleine Cleary:is coming
Marion Taffe:next. Coming up soon. So I'm a month away and I mean, I'm trying to get. The calendar is starting to look really busy. Um, and yeah, I have kids as well. So they have, you know, sports competitions and things like that, and appointments that are rudely interrupting my publicity. But, um, the, yeah, it's getting pretty, it's, it's kind of the calm before the storm in a way, I think. Um, I don't know, Emma and Kate, you've been through it and Madeleine, this will be you soon. To
Kate Horan:be honest, Marion, I felt. More stressed and kind of anxious before my book came out in that probably that bit between where you are and the publication day, I just felt increasingly, I just had like this sort of low level apprehension, 100 percent of the time. And I was, you know, in the middle of the night, I'd be thinking things that didn't even, you know, silly things like what sort of pen do you use to sign books and stuff like that. That is just nonsense. But that was sort of where my head was at. And then as soon as it was out, it was almost like. it was in the world and it wasn't mine anymore and I could just
Marion Taffe:let it go. Yeah, I'm definitely feeling that. And I remember, and it's like, you know, it's like these stages, it's not stages of grief, but there definitely was a period of grief for me. I think when I realized that that's it, it was pens down, you know, and this story that has lived in your head for, uh, for me five years and has evolved, you know, every morning I'd wake up with a new idea and be like, well, she would say that, she would say this. And, And to just get to that point where it's like, no more, there's this story is not going to evolve anymore. Like, you can keep having these ideas and I'm sure I will for years from now, but I can't, I can't put it in the book. Yeah, but also it was getting over that hump and realizing actually. It's, it's not mine anymore. I mean, it is my book. It will always be mine, but it's, it's a kind of really beautiful thing to think it goes out into the world and every person will bring their own life to the story and it will become something different in everybody's mind, uh, a little bit different for everyone. And so it's, yeah, once you let it go, um, it's quite freeing. It's kind of like getting on a plane and just going, well.
Kate Horan:Yeah,
Marion Taffe:so that's, that's how it's feeling for me, this little period. It's feeling good. Actually. I'm not feeling too bad. That's great on there. That's good. I'm waiting for the madness to hit, but it's not too bad at the moment.
Madeleine Cleary:Calm before the storm. What about you, Emma? Has there been a period or a point where you've felt most anxious?
Emma Pignatiello:I think I definitely, like Kate was saying, just before it came out, I think I was feeling this dread that no one will read it, but then if they do, they will hate it. And that was sort of, I sat with that for a long time. Why do we do this to ourselves? I don't know. I don't know. It's the, yeah, I think it's the imposter syndrome. It's the, uh, uh, yeah. I just, and then Goodreads terrifies me. It still terrifies me. And I have been checking it, but I know I need to stop. Um, but, yeah, I think, I definitely, after the launch, I definitely felt this, um, Like I was coming down from a high because it was, you know, you have this adrenaline and then it just, it just drops. Um, so I definitely felt that and that was a weird feeling. I didn't expect that. Um, I thought that I'd sort of, um, carry on with the high for, for a bit longer, but I'm definitely, I'm out, I'm out of that now. And I'm, I'm sort of, I guess, a bit more stable, even though I've just moved house and I'm back at work. Um, and I have a six year old who. Uh, doesn't care that much that my book has come out into the world, funnily enough. Um, so yeah, it's been, it's been weird. I think I, cause I've got a very big imagination. I think we all do cause they're writers. So I think I imagine what it's going to be like and then if it's not like that, not in, it's been amazing, but I think, you know, Oh, it didn't happen the way I thought that was going to happen. And then that's okay. But I think I get in my head too much. I need to just stop and be in the moment. Sorry. Round two in April. I'm going to be in the moment more when it comes out. Not obsess over little things as much. I say that now. Ask me again in April.
Madeleine Cleary:You were nodding along there, Kate. Do you agree?
Kate Horan:Yeah. Um, yeah, I think it's, I don't know. I think there is something really, there's a lot of vulnerability required to put a piece of work out and let people judge it. And, you know, I mean, even the fact that good reads exist and people can write, this was terrible. This is the worst book I've ever read. If they want to, they don't have to have any, you know, qualifications. They don't even have to have read the book, you know, they can. And so there is something that is quite. You know, anxiety inducing about that, but yeah, for me, it was more just once it was out, I felt like I don't have control anymore. And there's a bit of a letting go of control. I think that's, that's for quiet
Madeleine Cleary:by the time it does come out, it's, it's really, it's not your book anymore because it's, it's so many people from the publisher, from the sales team, from publicity marketing, you know, everyone's had a role and everyone wants to Everyone wants to see it fly as well. So it's that releasing, isn't it? Once you're past that manuscript stage and getting it out there, which is so exciting. Well, I think Marion and I have got some good tips, I think, from this. This is quite helpful for me. Thank you. Wise ones. And not checking Goodreads, I think it's going to be. A tough one, but probably a good one. You will, you'll
Emma Pignatiello:do it. That's
Madeleine Cleary:what my husband keeps saying. I'm like, no, no, no, I won't. He's like, no, no, no, you will. Yeah, my husband's ready to block it when it comes out. Okay, so I did have a chat with you guys about some recommendations of some debut authors from last year. So, who would like to, does anyone have a book that they read last year? It doesn't have to be Australian debut, it can be any debut from last year that they want to talk about. Maybe you start with Mary?
Marion Taffe:Oh, me? Okay, um, this is difficult because, um, for a little while my book was pencilled to come out. In 2024. But, uh, and so I read a lot of the Australian debuts last year and there's so many good ones. It's really, really hard to choose. So can I rattle some off before? Because my, my choice is actually an overseas author, but it was really hard. Um, Tidelines by Sarah Sasson. Amazing. Whenever You're Ready by Trish Bolton and Into the Margins by Gayle Holmes were probably, I couldn't decide between the three of them. So I went overseas. So I went overseas. Um, and I went for The Safe Keep by Jael van der Vauden, I think is how you pronounce her name, um, which was shortlisted for the booker. And um, it just was incredible. Uh, uh, you know, it's set in the 1960s, so that qualifies as historical fiction. And did you want to hear a little bit about it or it's quite famous now? So, um, it's set in the Netherlands in the 1960s and follows. the incredibly unlikable character is about, which is really quite horrible. Um, but it's, it's, it's an incredible exploration of the repression of truth, like of, of sexuality and class and the ripples that war and dispossession send through generations and, and about reckoning with the true cost of what we have inherited. The things around us and and I just found it a deeply challenging book and I felt like it really posed the question to me of what would I be willing to give up to live a truly authentic life and it's yeah so it's tough it just um it's beautiful writing and it's challenging and at some points you're just thinking oh you're pushing me to the edge here and uh and yeah but You know, it's, it all comes together just beautifully.
Madeleine Cleary:What a recommendation. I don't think we're going to be able to match that one. That was, um, beautiful, Marion. Another one to add to the TBR.
Kate Horan:I read, um, well, I read a number of debuts last year, and there were lots of really Strachan ones. Um, the one that really stands out for me is Everything is Perfect by Maxine Fawcett. Um, I just thought it was a really interesting, Story very character driven about a woman who's sort of approaching, you know, sort of menopausal sort of age and starting to question quite a lot of things and feeling dissatisfied with her marriage and, you know, just life being quite mundane. Uh, and yeah, she, she develops a. A crush, which becomes an obsession on a, on a widowed father, who's, um, who's got children at the same primary school. And the thing that I just think is like, I really admire that Max really sort of took it. She, she really sort of pushed it in terms of the behavior of, of the main character, Cassie. Um, and I know, like, I've heard people say, Oh God, it was like, I couldn't quite cope with that. Like the characters, like quite a polarizing character, but I thought it was. Um, really interesting. I mean, I was riveted. I was turning the pages. Absolutely. And quite horrified. Don't, don't do that, you know? Um,
and yeah, she would, she would do the, the things that I was hoping she wouldn't, but
Madeleine Cleary:yeah, I great. It was like, you were watching like a car kind of, yeah. And you're like, no, no, no, don't do that. And she's like, okay, now I'm doing this. And you're like, Oh God. Yeah. And I loved, I actually listened to the audio book of that one as well, um, which was narrated by Anna Downs. And so it was fantastic. I didn't know that Anna also, so as a writer, she's a writer, Red River. She was a rata,
Kate Horan:rata trained actor. Yes.
Madeleine Cleary:Amazing. It was, yeah, fantastic.
Emma Pignatiello:I loved Everything is Perfect as well, so you stole one of mine, but no, I, um, I did, I really loved. I don't think this is a 2024. I think it was at the end of 23. It was Green Dot by Madeleine Gray. That's incredible. My 2024 one I would say Anomaly by Emma Lord. So it is, the main character is Piper. And basically, it's kind of like, uh, the apocalypse has already happened. Um, but there's so much more in store. I don't want to give too much away, but it is just incredible. So it is a YA dystopian, uh, novel and Emma's just her description, but her characterization and the banter between the main characters is just phenomenal. So even if you're not. Like, you normally read YA, I think just anyone can enjoy this book, so I actually recommended that to one of my students, um, the other day, who wanted to read. my god, a teenager wants to read, you know, let me tell you all of these books, but I told her to get Anomaly, so. I'm going to recommend it here as well. Are you encouraging your students to read your book? Oh, no, I'm not. I, look, I know that we need to improve literacy rates. Yeah, exactly. Like, I know we need to improve literacy rates and everything. Um, and like, I guess, you know, reading. a book that your teacher wrote where there's like sex scenes in it. I don't really know what else to do to improve literacy rates, but I don't, like, I don't, I, I've told them like it's, it's for adults. So, um, I'm pretty confident they're probably not going to read it, you know, like. Uh, so yeah, I said when you're, when you're 18 and then, but some of the year 12s do turn 18. Um, in, so I, I've said when you leave school, never contact me again.
Madeleine Cleary:And you're going to be writing YA it sounds like in future as well. So
Emma Pignatiello:yeah. Yeah. They can read that. If I write some YA, they can read that one.
Madeleine Cleary:Emma we'll continue with you. Do you want to leave? I'm sure you've had lots of episodes to ponder your, your top tips. I'm feeling
Emma Pignatiello:all the nerves. Um, my, my top tip is it's kind of a three for one. It is to like, I, I am no one, you know, I'm not, I'm nothing special. So if I can do it. If I can get a book deal, then anyone can. So, in order to get your, your book over the line, I think there's three things you need, but it all, it all comes into the one thing. It's all the one tip. You have to want it, you have to love it, and you have to do it. So, you've got to want it, which means you have to have that goal in mind. Like, this is where I want to be. I, I, want, you know, to sign the book deal or whatever it is. And that's what keeps you sort of motivated and working towards it. You've got to love it. So even when, you know, you're tired and you just want to watch maths, you've got to, or Netflix or whatever, you've just got to sit down and write and you have to love the process of writing. Um, and you have to do it. You have to sit down, you have to open up the laptop and you just got to do it. And you will get there, I promise, because I did.
Madeleine Cleary:There you go. Even if it's just one word per day, still progress. Yeah. And you'll find if you go on and you're like, Oh, I'm just going to do five minutes, and then before you know it. Time yourself,
Emma Pignatiello:Pomodoro method, a hundred percent. Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh, is that a method? Is it? Well, it's not just a method,
Emma Pignatiello:but it's a thing. Oh yeah. Lots of people better than me do.
Kate Horan:It's a short burst, isn't it? Like a 20 minute. Yeah. Yeah.
Emma Pignatiello:Yeah.
Kate Horan:Sit down for 20 minutes. It's like tricking yourself into exercise. I think you sometimes got to trick yourself into it and say, I'll just sit down and I'll write one paragraph and then I'll, if I'm not feeling it, I'll get up again.
Emma Pignatiello:And inevitably you do more than one paragraph. You never get up
Kate Horan:after a paragraph. Yeah. So yeah. Good tips. Yeah. My tip would be, I think you do have to invest a bit in learning the craft of writing. And I think when I reflect on my, I, at first, I just tried to do it without learn, like, I just thought I'll just try and see and if I can work out how to do this and you can't. I mean, it's a very complicated thing to do writing a novel. It's hard to think of anything quite, quite as complex as, as writing, you know, a novel. And I think you do have to learn the craft. So I would say. invest in, in the learning. Um, for me that looked like, I mean, I, I did the Faber writing a novel course, which is one of the ways of doing it. Um, there's lots of different options, craft books, all of that, but just learn the actual craft. Like just as one example, um, when I learned how to write a scene and I really understood the structure of a scene, I felt like that was quite a game changer, um, in terms of my writing. And. Even just how quickly I could write, once I understood that, um, that it became faster for me to write. I didn't have to sort of fumble my way through trying to work out how to make this thing work anymore. Um, so just some of those technical things that you can learn, um, I would say invest in the learning.
Madeleine Cleary:Are you a plotter or a pantser, Kate?
Kate Horan:I'm a
Madeleine Cleary:pantser. In fact, to the point where I thought
Kate Horan:I
Madeleine Cleary:was listening to you going,
Kate Horan:she's a blotter. No, no, I'm a pantser. And to the point where I didn't even finish my first draft, because I thought, now I know where to start this story. And so I just went 65, 000 words, three quarters the way through. I'll stop there. And I'll start my second draft. So I was halfway through my second draft and I still didn't know the ending. And so I was starting to really panic thinking, what if I can't think of it? What if I can't work out how to bring this home? And then I was driving my car one day and it just came like this bolt from the sky. It just happens like that. Oh, that's what she does. And so that was it. Yeah. But so I pants, but I also think that that whole pants are plotter distinction is a little bit. Less true in real life because it's just doing one first and then the other I think like I pants but after maybe, you know, a draft or two. Then I need to work out what I've got and make sure that it's working, you know, from a plot perspective and really think about, you know, the structure of it and, and whether it's doing what it needs to do to be satisfying for readers. So, I think you still do the plotting if you're a panther, it's just that you don't start with the plot, the plotting. I agree. You start with the characters and the scenario.
Madeleine Cleary:Have you guys heard of the quilters and the knitters as well? Okay. Yes. Yes. Okay. Emma. So yes, you, you can explain this.
Emma Pignatiello:Oh no. I've heard of it. I can't remember it. Okay. I can explain it. I
Madeleine Cleary:can explain it. So Kate Sully, um, who you guys might know, um, yeah. So I went to her event last week and she said, so you've gone one level and I'm holding on my hand for, for, for us, but for listeners, I'm just holding it horizontal. That's all you've got. Plotter's Pants Spectrum. And then if you flip it, you've also got quilters and knitters. So quilters are writers who will just quilt a certain scene, and then, but it could be at any point in the novel, and then they'll just patchwork the novel together. I'm a knitter. Knitters are the people that go like, I was horrified to hear that there are quilters that exist. I
don't know
Kate Horan:how. I find it hard enough to keep track of my story when I go in chronological order. I don't know how, if you jump around, you can keep track of all the details. And I don't know
Emma Pignatiello:how you do it in a Like in a mystery novel or a crime novel. I just, yeah, like I understand pantsing and, and, but I would assume that you're still writing chronologically.
Kate Horan:Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary:Well. What about you, Marion? I remember you once telling me, I was horrified when you told me this Marion, and I still remember it today. I know what this is going to be, yes. The chapters. Yes. You
Marion Taffe:said you had no chapters. I had no chapters. I have no clue about chapters. I, I think in scenes, so, I don't think it's so far removed from chapters, so I would write scenes. And I, I, I actually think everybody does, but I, I remember asking so many teachers, like, what, how do you know what's a chapter? Like, because is it too, it's, it's. It's just a bit sort of higgledy piggledy. Some have two scenes. Yeah. So it's just that, um, ending on a hook to keep people reading. Um, I don't, I don't know about that. And as I was writing, it just wasn't a priority for me to think about. Things in terms of chapters, and I have friends who, yep, I'm going to write a chapter today. I'm like, how do you, how do you know? Like you might go back and delete a scene and then you've got to move your chapter heading because you'll have a teeny tiny chapter or a really big fat chapter. Um, so no, I just had this massive document that I wrote into and, um, and sometimes I would write a little bit ahead. I'd think, Oh no, I need to work on this scene. And I'd kind of pull it out and work on it in a separate document and then stick it back into my big, huge, chapterless void. I know everyone was quite mortified. I just thought, you know. People, I don't know, I don't know how you work in chapters and think in chapters. So I basically went through once I had finished the manuscript and divided it into chapters.
Madeleine Cleary:I was reading your manuscript thinking about this and just thinking, how natural are the chapters? They were very natural.
Marion Taffe:So good. Thank you. Well, nobody changed them. So that was good.
Kate Horan:One thing that I think is a strength of the way you did it without the chapters is That every, I find once there's some books that I read and I have this. Suspicion theory. And I don't know if I'm right or wrong that it is because of what people writing in Scrivener where the documents are separate from each other, whether it feels like the chapters are disconnected from each other, where
you don't feel
Kate Horan:this really Strachan connection between the end of one chapter and the start of the next. And that's one of the reasons why I've never been like, uh, Scrivener just doesn't really work for me because I just. I write in a big Word document too, because I want that chapter to flow straight into that one, because I think that's what makes you keep turning pages as a reader.
Marion Taffe:Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Although, yeah, I know some, I haven't even tried Scrivener and I couldn't because I started this in Word and I just couldn't mentally do, I couldn't. Change midway through, um, but my tip is a little bit different. Yes, you're going to finish us off as well. Okay, don't write chapters. No, um, my tip is actually a little bit more crafty. And it was something that you hear a lot when you start to do. You know, take Kate's advice and, and get some, get invested in some craft and some learning. You hear a lot about voice and it's always an element of, of any sort of introduction to fiction course and you find your voice, find your voice as a writer. And um, to me it's kind of like trying to read a newspaper with your nose on the page. It's just, you know, where's my voice, where's my voice? It just seems strange. So my advice, I think, um, I really liked the tip to not think about finding your voice, your voice is there and it will come and it will evolve naturally, but think about finding your character's voice and throw them, you only find that by writing and throwing them into situations, seeing how they react, what they're thinking about, ask them, you know, what lies. Do they tell themselves what's beneath that? Why do they do this? And why do they do this? No, really, why do they do this? And just get into that nitty gritty of the character. And I think your writer's voice just comes naturally if you concentrate on finding your character's voice. So, um, yeah, that's my tip. I feel like I wanted to
Madeleine Cleary:do a workshop with Marion on voice. Cause I just like, Oh, I need to take notes. This is good. And I think also for The voice is the first thing they really look at. If they're not hooked by the voice in the first few chapters, doesn't matter how good the story is. The voice has to be there and present and in your head.
Marion Taffe:you can see it. But when you're learning and someone is just saying, well, you've got to find your voice. It's, I don't know. I just found it was just like, well, there's not a lot about how to do that. And it's really just through writing and, and then you find different characters. Um, you know, you've got different voices. So, um, Hey, you've always got
Madeleine Cleary:something to say. I can see.
Kate Horan:No, I was, I agree with that. And, and I think. I've often thought about this whole find your voice thing and often when you ask people, what do you mean by voice? They kind of can't quite answer that question. Like it's a bit of this ephemeral kind of thing that's like slippery through your hands. You can't quite get a hold on it. And so I think Marion's advice is really good there. I think just really standing in the shoes of your character and thinking and seeing the world the way they see it. And how would they, how would they speak? How would they think? I think, yeah, I think that's a better way of coming to whatever that voice thing
Marion Taffe:is. Yeah, and I think you get to know your voice. I mean, especially if workshopping and writers groups and getting that feedback, you get to go, Oh, that's, that's a me thing. Oh. I
Emma Pignatiello:think it took me five manuscripts to find my voice. I think that's why last shot worked. The others didn't. Yeah. I think you're so right. It's in the writing.
Madeleine Cleary:Yeah. Well, I'm going to leave this with Greyson Hawke's voice in my head later tonight. And Freida, who's, I know, doesn't it? And Freida, a woman from the 10th century. So I love the diversity of this year's debut crew. Um, so thank you so much, Emma, Marion, and Kate for joining us tonight.
Emma Pignatiello:Thanks for having us. Thank you, Madeleine. Thanks. Thank you.
Madeleine Cleary:We hope you enjoyed this episode of the book deal podcast. Please like, follow or share this episode so we can encourage more aspiring authors. And if you have a question you'd like us to answer or ask our guests, please find us on Instagram at the book deal or email us at the book deal at outlook. com.