The Book Deal
Motivation and inspiration for emerging writers, helping them pave their own pathway to publishing success.
The Book Deal
Natasha Rai on persevering through setbacks, rewriting drafts, and securing her debut book deal
Natasha Rai on persevering through setbacks, rewriting drafts, and securing her debut book deal.
In this episode of the Book Deal Podcast, hosts Tina Strachan and Madeleine Cleary dive into the story behind the story of debut author, Natasha Rai, and her book 'An Onslaught of Light,' published on 4 March 2025 by Pantera Press. The conversation reveals Natasha's eight-year path to publication, from early long-listings in the Richell Prize and the Kill Your Darlings Unpublished Manuscript Award, to eventual success with Pantera Press. Natasha discusses the inspiration behind her novel, which explores themes of cultural identity, family grief, and queerness. She also shares invaluable insights and tips for emerging writers, stressing the importance of community, resilience, and continual writing. Additionally, Natasha reflects on how her experience as a trauma counsellor influences her writing, and offers a glimpse into her future projects.
Our debut in the spotlight this week is Christine Newell, whose travel memoir Five Seasons in Seoul was released on 25 February 2025 with Affirm Press. Madeleine highly recommends it!
00:00 Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast
00:44 Introducing Natasha Rai and Her Debut Novel
04:10 The Inspiration Behind 'An Onslaught of Light'
05:14 Exploring Themes of Home and Identity
15:44 The Journey to Publication
21:38 Christine Newell's Memoir: Five Seasons in Seoul
23:05 Acknowledgements and Initial Struggles
23:39 The Importance of Taking Breaks
24:40 Finding the Right Editor
25:26 Publisher Introduction Day
27:57 Navigating Feedback and Revisions
34:09 The Role of Community
38:00 The Journey to Publication
40:31 Final Tips and Farewell
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This is the Book Deal Podcast. Where you will discover the inspiring stories of the authors behind your favourite books. No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got you covered. I'm Tina Strachan. And I'm Madeleine Cleary. And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors. One deal at a time. The Book Deal Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters which it's recorded on. and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging. Hi, it's Madeleine here. I was so thrilled to interview my good friend and fellow podcaster, Natasha Rai. You may know Natasha from the Takeover series here on the Book Deal podcast, but we're also celebrating Natasha's debut novel, An Onslaught of Light, which was released on the 4th of March in 2025 with Pantera Press. Natasha was born in India and migrated to Australia with her parents at the age of 10. She lived in the UK for several years as an adult, and the influence of Three Homes features in her writing. An Onslaught of Light was long listed for the 2017 Richell Prize and the 2018 KYD Unpublished Manuscript Award, and was highly commended for the 2022 Westwords Ultimo Prize. Natasha slides in so many top tips into this episode. So come as always with your pen and paper ready. As Natasha and I are friends, our conversation takes many pathways and is full of good humor and light. Natasha Rai, welcome to the book deal podcast. Thank you, Madeleine. Great to be here. Oh, just so excited to have you on. Um, we have been chatting for a long time, actually. We have, yes. You were the first Debut 2025 author to reach out to me after I created the crew.
Natasha Rai (2):I was, I was so excited when I realized you'd started this group. So
Madeleine Cleary:I was just so excited. Someone reached out to me. I was really worried. I would start the crew and like, no one would know who I was. And there'd be like this other crew forming that I had no idea about. Oh, that's awful. When you reached out, I was like, yes, I've got a friend.
Natasha Rai:And it's been, honestly, it's been invaluable. So thank you.
Madeleine Cleary:It's been amazing. And your book is wonderful and incredible and invaluable and everyone should read it. Do you want to give us your pitch first and then we can dive into all the things?
Natasha Rai:An Onslaught of Light, published on the 4th of March. Follows the story of Archana Sharma, who is living her perfect life, alone, isolated, solitary. When she is forced into caring for her father, she has to reckon with a family grief that's buried deep, her cultural identity, and her queerness.
Madeleine Cleary:I was just so struck by this book. And I'm one of the very lucky ones to have read an advanced copy of it. And, um, I think I was, I was messaging you constantly throughout it. Yes,
Natasha Rai (2):you were, which was a huge relief and also a huge source of terror.
Madeleine Cleary:I know because you're, you're someone Natasha, who I've observed for the last 18 months, and you're a very naturally calm person. Perhaps there's lots going on the inside, but on the exterior, you're very calm and considered. But you did say to me, one of your, the things that you're most anxious about is about people close to you reading it. Why do you think that is?
Natasha Rai (2):Well, because you know, you, people know you a certain way, especially friends, close friends, even colleagues. And when they read, even though it's fiction, when they read something that has some similarities to my life. I think, I know that connections will be made, questions will be asked, oh, how much of this is real, how much is fiction, so I think that's part of the worry.
Madeleine Cleary:How much of it is real, Natasha?
Natasha Rai (2):Apart from a family who is Indian, who moves to Australia. That's it. Everything else is fiction. So do you
Madeleine Cleary:want to talk a little bit then about the inspiration behind the book?
Natasha Rai (2):Yes. Um, actually it was interesting. What inspired me is not my move so much from India to Australia because I was only 10 when we moved here. It was actually when I came back from the UK, I was living in the UK for 11 years. And I moved back to Australia in 2016 and it was such a strange experience for me because I was really noticing aspects of Sydney, which was never my home anyway, because I grew up in Newcastle, but aspects of Sydney that were familiar and yet not, and really missing London and feeling that. Strange experience of this is my home, but it's not really. And my home is back there and I've left it and just sit searching for how to make this now my home. And this person was in my head. Archana Sharma. And that's how I started writing it because there were all these scenes that just were there, like, she was just telling me the story. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, so it was that search for what does home mean that I started writing it. Do you think that people can have multiple homes as well? Oh, for sure. That's what I've realized now. Mm hmm. It is so much more than place, it's, it can be connection with people, connection to place definitely, and it, home just speaks to different parts of you, in my
opinion.
Madeleine Cleary:So, when you spoke about Archana, who's one of your three characters that you progressed through. Um, you said that she spoke to you and told you the story. And I really got that sense that your voice, and this is the thing that people often talk about with books, the voice, and it's quite hard thing to describe because it's quite different point of view perspective. The voice is something. A little less tangible, I think. For you, did you feel like, was that voice always, it sounded like it was very clear to you, but is it something that you had to work on?
Natasha Rai (2):Um, I should say yes. But, because, look, I did, and I didn't, because Archana especially just came to me fully formed. It was the quality of anger and that bristling harshness. I am a rock. No one will enter me. No one will ever get past this. I got that from Ajna. Yeah, that just came to me so strongly. Um, and so I, that, I started writing that and then out of that actually came, well, how do people around her deal with it?
Because
Natasha Rai (2):she is, if you can just get past that rock, Part. She is lovable. She's just so deeply hurt. And so who are these people who could love her? And then Indu came to me and Indu for me was, I was like, she cannot be hard herself. She has to be something else. And then Vijay is like this, almost like this, uh, like they're, if they are two streams, Archana and Indu, Vijay is this thing in the middle that they both kind of batter up against in different ways. And that's kind of how I was thinking about voice.
Madeleine Cleary:Some writers, the story comes first for them, but, but for you, it sounds like in this novel, it's the characters that really spoke to you. Clearly the story flowed around. Yeah.
Natasha Rai (2):The characters always come to me first. Always for you. And I've heard you talk to Tina about this, about character and story and the idea of writing a synopsis before just. Chills me to my very core. Thank you,
Madeleine Cleary:Tina. You've got to listen to this.
Natasha Rai (2):Natasha and I are on the same page here. Exactly. So for me it was always characters, which is why I floundered at the beginning because it was a bunch of scenes where something was happening to these characters or they were doing something and that was After that, the story started to emerge.
Madeleine Cleary:I think there is so much that we can learn about this story as well. And the multiple timelines, there's a, um, you know, a modern day and a, and a one that's set in the, it's not historical fiction, I would say. It's hard to call
Natasha Rai (2):the 80s and 90s historical. They were 30, 40 years ago. Oh, my gosh. Technically. Um,
Madeleine Cleary:I, so I think there's so much to learn in, in, you know, looking and reflecting back in the past and in the current day. Um, and what I took from this novel is that, you know, all of us have this light and dark in us across our lives. Um, uh, could you talk maybe a little bit about About that, and I'm guessing this is one of the reasons for the title and onslaught of light. If we, we have to allow that light to come in to be able to shine upon, but we need the dark as well in order to, to expose the light.
Natasha Rai (2):Yeah. And I guess for this, this kind of. Thinking about dark and light, I was really coming at it from a trauma lens. Um, because trauma robs us of light. Trauma takes away our ability to connect with others and to ourselves. And it really leaves a lot of people in survival mode, where you know how to go to work, you know how to look after yourself, and you miss out on the joy of a lot of things, because everything is geared into certainty. And uncertainty lies. Darkness sometimes, because if you're certain about everything, you can't let curiosity flourish. You can't allow yourself to try and not do something because the trying and doing is too hard. So I was interested in the darkness also brings silence. You can't talk about things, you can't reach out. And so the, the, the image that I had in my mind was this dark chamber that she's in, Archana, Vijay, and Indu, and like, at times, somebody or something makes a little chink in your chamber, and there's this little beautiful stream of light that comes in, and it's about the bravery of going, I'm now curious about what that light comes from, and how does it come in, and so that was kind of where I was thinking about how this chamber around her gets Uh, in some ways smashed up by others
Madeleine Cleary:and in
Natasha Rai (2):other ways, she pushes out into that.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh, that gave me shivers the way that you described that. And throughout the book, there is, you know, a lot of darkness in the book, but there are these moments that you insert perhaps deliberately, which are that those joyful moments. And I just, yeah. Because
Natasha Rai (2):that's the thing, even with trauma, there's always possibility, there's always possibility, no matter how desperate it feels, no matter how awful it feels, if you are able to let it in, you can find it always, but it's It's about knowing or trusting yourself because everyone has it.
Madeleine Cleary:And your, your work, um, as you're a trauma counsellor.
Natasha Rai (2):Yes.
Madeleine Cleary:Has that informed this view, do you think?
Natasha Rai (2):Uh, definitely, uh, because I'm constantly amazed at people's resilience and that word is used so much now. It is. I'm constantly amazed at our human capacity to recover and heal. It is truly amazing. And I get to do this work that I get to witness that. So, and I think it's that it's this, because so much of, you know, when you go online, social media, et cetera, so much of it is feel sometimes hopeless in terms of once you're here, it's really difficult. But there is always a possibility, which is what I get drawn to, the possibility.
Madeleine Cleary:There's a lot of irony in the book, I sensed as well. And I like the way that you inserted it. It wasn't in your face, um, but it was a really subtle way of doing things. And, and almost a little, yeah, that you, so you got that sort of humorous side where you could reflect on your own views and biases and experiences. And one of the scenes that struck me was when Indhu was at the government. Office. Yes. And she was behind. She was talking to a woman working behind the counter in fluent English because in India people speak fluent English and the woman said, well, we can't do this for you unless you undertake in migrant English courses and Indu said, but we are having a conversation right now in English. Why do I have to do these courses? And the woman was just like, you just have to do it. Yes.
Natasha Rai (2):Yes.
Madeleine Cleary:This is, you know, this is something I think that comes up in migrant in literature about the migrant experience. It's something that is so important for all Australians to engage in, um, and to check our own biases as well.
Do
Madeleine Cleary:you think that, um, we're doing enough? to promote them in the industry? Do you, have you felt a shift, I suppose, in terms of the voices, the new voices that are emerging?
Natasha Rai (2):I think there's definitely a shift because, you know, that scene came out of, um, the policy at the time. So in 1990, when we came, the policy was assimilation. Like, you know, everyone should assimilate and be the same and homogenous. So those types of, that was policy driven. So it doesn't take any Uh, what's the word, any account of the person standing in front of you with their own history, et cetera. Computer says no. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I think now things have definitely changed. Like you can, you know, um, SPS, for example, you can watch multiple programs in different languages. Um, there's access for communities, even community all around. And I'm being very specific. With Sydney now, because this is where I live, but you can just do this beautiful pockets of community all over the place. And in publishing, we've got so much. It's not there yet to say it isn't there yet, but there are so many new voices, um, Aboriginal, Sri Lankan, Lebanese there, you know, from, from parts of Africa, there is, there is definitely a move towards it. In my view, it's not fast enough, it's never fast enough because even our literature doesn't fully yet reflect what's happening in the real world, like in terms of who lives here in this country, but we're getting there and it is much, much better.
Madeleine Cleary:And you know, especially given what's going on in Australia at the moment. with everything about social cohesion and the importance of social cohesion as well. I think having literature as a way to connect and your book is all about finding connection. Yeah, I think it's really important that us as an industry go and promote those things too. And
Natasha Rai (2):I think it's important to say that there is so much room for everyone. It's not about if we start to amplify this voice or that voice, somebody else will miss out. Actually, the more you amplify, the more room you create. So. I think sometimes there might be a fear that, you know, we can't have too much of this or too much of that, but it just shows when you do it and, you know, books sell well, or it does well in a certain way. There are people wanting it. There are readers hungry for it.
Madeleine Cleary:Exactly, exactly. It's exciting. I think the future is really exciting.
Natasha Rai (2):Yeah, I agree.
Madeleine Cleary:And, um, I'm excited as well in, you know, five years when we'll be having a further conversation after your stellar prize winning books and miles Franklin award.
Natasha Rai (2):Don't know about that, but thank you.
Madeleine Cleary:Okay. So let's talk about, because we are obviously on the book deal podcast. We're all interested in book deals and how you got your deal. And. We, I'm going to admit, have had a chat before about your journey to publication, which is a very interesting one. And this, not only I thought your book was amazing, but I wanted to get you on, cause I think you've got a lot, a lot of advice for emerging writers. So let's talk about your journey. So when did you first start? Writing an Onslaught of Lime.
Natasha Rai (2):So I started writing it in 2017, the year after I came back from the UK. And I enrolled, um, in a course at the, at Writing New South Wales called The Year of the Novel. It is still running. So anyone out there who's thinking about writing a novel and has some random scenes or even a line, enroll. It is the best thing I ever did. Um, at the time, Emily Maguire, the excellent Emily Maguire was teaching the course. And It was just so helpful. So over the course of that year, I wrote a draft, I like to call it zero draft. I've heard it being called a vomit draft before, but it's not all, you know, putrid. So I like to call it a zero draft. Um, and, um, what gave me the biggest boost was that year, um, it was long listed for the Ritchell prize,
Madeleine Cleary:which is amazing. So do you want to tell the. Uh, listeners a little bit about Richell Prize because it's an amazing
Natasha Rai (2):prize. It is an amazing prize. The Richell Prize is, um, a prize for unpublished writers and you submit, I think it's three chapters, a synopsis and a chapter breakdown. So basically what happens the rest of the story, and I think a statement about what the prize winning means to you. You win a mentorship with Hachette, um, money that goes to an advance if you do get published. And the best thing about the prize is you don't have to have a full length novel ready. So good. And it's for unpublished for unpublished writers only. So it is such an incredible opportunity and it's worth doing it. It's so worth doing it. What was it like when you got longlisted? It was so amazing because I didn't even know I was. Somebody, somebody who I knew, another writer whose group, like writing group I was in, Um, message me going, Oh my God, congratulations. I'm like, what for? And he's like, you've been long listed. I'm like, yeah, and I fully went online expecting it to be a typo or seeing someone else's name and him have to have misread it. And there it was. And at the time I think I was calling it light and shadow or light. Dark corners or something and there it was and I was like, Oh my God. And I emailed Emily cause we were still doing the course. And she was like, can I announce this to the group? And I'm like, Oh God. Okay. But she, you know, I could certainly understand why she did it. She did it as a way to say, see. Yes. Anyone, everyone should, you know, you should not feel scared, do it because this is what could happen.
Madeleine Cleary:And those initial moment, like that, that first moment when you're writing is validated is it's just so good, isn't it? That's powerful because it's other people might actually like
Natasha Rai (2):somebody else who's an expert is saying, or maybe not. Yes. As an expert, somebody who's does this for a living is saying. Your words are worth reading. Yes. Your words are worth sharing. Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary:Okay. So your long list of this is in 2017? Yes. 17, 20 17. Yep. What happens then?
Natasha Rai (2):So then I didn't get on the short list, which is fine. The long list was enough to like keep me going for like a good year after that, Um, so I finished my novel. I got an agent at the time mm-hmm And at the time the novel was really, really different structure and so she, so you're on a great
Madeleine Cleary:path then
Natasha Rai (2):Natasha, because you, you've been
Madeleine Cleary:long listed in the retail prize. And then you get an agent. Amazing. Okay. So you're basically like, this book's going to be out next year and I'm going to That's what
Natasha Rai (2):I genuinely thought. So then she submitted to everybody, like all the major publishers and some of the smaller ones. And the feedback I got was incredibly depressing because it wasn't anything I could use. So for example, we don't know where to place this. Um, this sits in the uncomfortable, uh, space between literary fiction and contemporary fiction. I don't know what that means. What does that mean? I don't know. I still don't know. Um, and then somebody, somebody else said, a publisher who I won't name, um, the messages of racism are a bit too much. So, I'm like, okay, I don't know what to do about that. Um, so, it's fine. It's fine. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so after that, my, um, agent and I did part ways, because she was like, I think we've come to the end of the line with this. I don't know what else to do.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh, Natasha, that would have been really difficult.
Natasha Rai (2):It was, um, but luckily, because some of the excellent advice that I got from my Year of the Novel course, I had started writing other things. Is that going to be like a
Madeleine Cleary:top tip? Have something else going on?
Natasha Rai (2):Yes, I'm going to do the top tip right now because I've actually got more than one. Keep writing. Do not focus too much on the one thing because you'll go mad. Just keep writing. Um, and so I just kept writing and I kept working on Onslaught every now and then I'd come in and do something. And then in 2018, it was long listed. The KYD Kill Your Darlings Unpublished Manuscript Award. I don't know if that award still is still going. Um, but it was again for unpublished writers and you had to submit your entire manuscript. And I was blown away when I was longlisted. Huge. Huge, a huge deal.
Madeleine Cleary:So you've been, you've shortlisted for two major unpublished manuscript awards. Yeah. So you're, you've got something. Yeah. There was something there.
Christine Newell (2):Hi everyone. I'm Christine Newell, a member of the 2025 Debut Crew and author of Five Seasons in Seoul, which was released on the 25th of February through Affirm Press. Five Seasons in Seoul is a memoir about my experience living and performing in South Korea. My father's death after a prolonged illness left me suffering with debilitating anxiety and depression, and I was at a low point in my musical theatre career, dressing up as a dinosaur to pay the bills. So, when a role with an experimental theatre company based in South Korea came up unexpectedly, it seemed like the perfect escape from my problems. But, I soon discovered, there's no running away from yourself. The book follows my journey from the southeastern suburbs of Melbourne to the affluent district of Gangnam in Seoul, where I faced a lot of unexpected challenges while adjusting to my new job and home. It's an exploration of Korean life. The food, landscape and culture, as well as a deeply personal story of travel and the ways it can transform us. Five Seasons in Seoul is out now in all good bookstores. I celebrated my book launch at the beginning of this month, and I've been overwhelmed by the feedback from some early readers who've told me that they related to my memoir on a very personal level. That's one of the reasons I wrote it, and I'm looking forward to connecting with more readers in the next few months. Thanks for listening and a huge thank you to Madeleine and Tina for providing an opportunity for the Debut crew to share their books with you all.
Natasha Rai (2):Anyway and then after that I wasn't shortlisted and then I kind of submitted to a few other competitions again and uh, I left it. I just left it. And then in 2020, I decided to do a rewrite because I was like, you know what I'm, I'm not done with it. I'm not done with it. Were you tempted to
Madeleine Cleary:put it down? Was there, there must have been that temptation. Cause after going through all of this, getting to the end of it and yeah. Well, I'm
Natasha Rai (2):just going
Madeleine Cleary:to slide another tip
Natasha Rai (2):in when you, when you can't see your manuscript anymore, when you cannot figure out what isn't working, cause you know, it isn't working. Cause that's the feedback you're getting. Put it away.
There's
Natasha Rai (2):no urgency. There was no rush. Nothing will happen. Just put it away for as long as you can handle it. I would say six months if you can handle being away from it, because it really was a revelation because I left it alone for a year. When I went back to it, I was just like, whoa, there is so much I can do with this now.
Madeleine Cleary:Amazing. Having that insight so much, it's almost like a, you're having that helicopter perspective, the novel. Yeah. Whereas when you are writing it and you are editing it every day, you're in in it. Yes. In
Natasha Rai (2):that world. Yes. And I think it also, what it felt like coming back to it, was it, it, yes, it was my work, but there was also, I didn't remember writing some of it. Mm. But parts of it, I was like, oh. I don't remember writing that. So it really helps you have a distance and gets you thinking about it in a different way. Um, so yeah, 2020, 2020, and I met the most amazing editor in the on the planet. Sorry, all the other editors, um, Alison Fraser, who I was, she was recommended to me by a good friend who won a mentorship with her. And Ali basically. Reddit. So this was my next big boost. She read it. And on our first zoom chat, she just said to me in the most matter of fact tone. She wasn't trying to suck up. She wasn't being judgmental. She just went, Oh yeah, this will get published. She just said it in this way. And I'm like, really? She goes, Oh yeah, it does need some work, but it will definitely get picked up.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh,
Natasha Rai (2):I've just got shivers. I know. And I was just like, Oh my God. Oh my God. Anyway. And so we worked on that together. And then, um, there was a publisher introduction day, I think it's called. So Writing NSW still hosts these. So for all the baby writers out there and unpublished writers who are like, maybe should I do it? So what it is, it's a day where the publisher comes into the center and they really put a lot of resources into it. As in. They, they come in the editors, publishers, marketing team, and they run through what happens when you submit to them
and
Natasha Rai (2):they tell you what they have to do, how they have to think about it. So someone from their sales team comes, the acquisitions team comes, and the best part is you get to submit an excerpt of your work and you get one on one time. No, with a, uh, with a member of the team.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh, that is invaluable. That is amazing. It's invaluable. You get all the information and then Yeah, exactly.
Natasha Rai (2):Amazing. So you submit beforehand. So I, it was Pantera and I had my eye Panera for a while because they publish such eclectic. unique books. And I really loved their, they were almost not aggressive, but they're almost hungry for new voices, Australian stories. And I'm like, this sounds like a nice fit. So I submitted my excerpt and I met with the excellent Kate Cuthbert, who was an editor at Pantera, sadly not there anymore. And we had a seven minute chat and I actually submitted something else. It wasn't even onslaught. And she said, I love this. Can I see the rest of it? And I panicked and went, no, because it's not ready. And she said, well, in your bio, you mentioned onslaught what's happening with that. And at the time it was in a competition and being as I am a stickler for the rules. I said, I'm not allowed to show it to you. And she's like, show it to me immediately. I'm like, okay. Um, so that was the Friday and on Tuesday she, uh, rang me and said. I love Onslaught. I want to take her to Acquisitions. I'm like, what? Um, So she, she came back to you in three days. Yep. She was like, I read it all weekend. Oh my God. Oh my God. Um, okay. So after that, things moved very fast. I went to Acquisitions and then at Acquisitions, I was told. It's not a no, but it's not a yes.
Madeleine Cleary:It's like, you know, you get these highs and then it just like comes down. It's the roller coaster.
Natasha Rai (2):So you just got to like weather, weather it out. And then, um, and then I was highly commended in the other competition. Oh my gosh. Yes, I was just like, Oh my God, what do I do? And even the highly commended, I always find this stuff out in the weirdest ways. No one called me, no one emailed me. I was happy to be scrolling on Instagram and saw the announcement from the competition going, and we have a highly commended Natasha Rai. I'm like, what? And at that point I had, cause I've always been quite. And not anxious, nervous about approaching publishers because they just seem like, you know, God's so not this time. I was like, you know what, stuff it. I'm just going to be really brave. So I emailed the publisher and I went, hi, I've been highly commended for your prize. Can we have a chat? And so we had a chat and she gave me feedback. And at the same time, Pantera gave me feedback. And the two feedbacks. Yeah. We're totally different. Oh my gosh. One publisher wanted me to strip out to one point of view and the other publisher wanted me to beef up the points of view.
Madeleine Cleary:Having read Onslaught, losing those points of view would have been soul destroying for the book.
Natasha Rai (2):So I did go insane for a day because I thought I'm going to do both. I'm going to write a novel. How? How? I know that's what I mean. I went insane for a day. And then I spoke to Ali, my editor who worked with me, and I spoke to a few other writers, including Emily, who all went, calm your farm, look at the feedback. What do you want out of this book? How would you feel if your book was out in the world with one or both, with one of those? Structures. And I'm like, I know the structure I want,
and
Natasha Rai (2):I knew I understood the publisher that had said, can we just have one feedback I understood is another top tip. I'm going to slip it in now when you get feedback and it doesn't make sense to you panic, take the time to freak out, then go back and look at what it is they're trying to fix because the feedback itself may not make sense to you. But look at the theme or what it is that might be missing. So I realized what was missing was not that it did at one point of view was that the story was really unbalanced and. It needed more from the other characters. So I'm like, I know how to fix that. So then I took, I think, four months, five months to do that. I sent it back to both. And I said to the publisher that wanted one, I'm like, I didn't do what you asked me, but here's the problem. I think you've asked me to fix, which I think I've now done.
Madeleine Cleary:And on your points of view, I just found. It's amazing the way you were able to keep the story going, because sometimes the story can get bogged down in multiple points of view and especially you were going across two timelines as well, but it was so seamless and I thought very equitable in the way that you did it. You really got the insight. So clearly you'd put a lot of attention into this.
Natasha Rai (2):Yes, I did. Cause I knew it, cause then it became very clear to me on that. Now I understand. And Ali, of course, helped me figure out how do you beef up or how do you add to the other points of view without exactly what you said, without it dragging and getting bogged down. And so I went back to both, one publisher passed and Pantera, yeah, and Pantera was the one who said yes. And then I was in the UK at the time visiting family and they'd gone to acquisitions and then it was all quiet. And I was like, don't, don't hound Kate, just leave it. But what I did know was the no is very fast, but the no had not come. So I'm like. Oh my God. It means they're deliberating, which means there's a chance. Oh my God. And on the 10th of May, 2023, I've got an, it was in the morning. I was staying at my friend's house in London. I was in my pajamas. And
Madeleine Cleary:I love that you know, the date. I
Natasha Rai (2):woke up in the morning. There was an email from Kate going, can we have a chat next week? And I'm like, Nope, I'm getting on a plane back to Australia, which means I cannot talk to you till whatever day next week. And I will not wait. She's like, let's get on a zoom now. And I'm like, My hair, I mean, my pajamas, just I don't care. And so we got on zoom and she said, we would love to publish you. And I just screamed and screamed. And all I could think of was I'm alone in my friend's house and there's no one here to witness this moment. It was the best moment, not ever, but very close.
Madeleine Cleary:So this is a journey that's taken six years from the day that you finished on sort, uh, until getting the book deal, which is an incredible feat. And obviously, you know, you've gone through that rollercoaster, what, what was helpful for you to continue persisting with, with onslaught? Like, was there something that really helped you?
Natasha Rai (2):There were two things, I think, looking back, one was my own. Um, feeling that it was, it was worth telling because I know, I know that lots of writers when their debut novels come out, say this was not the first novel I wrote. Um, and I, so I was aware of that, but I just had this feeling it had to be told it was relevant. It was an Australian story, an Australian story that we don't always get to hear. And the other thing, the other thing that kept me going was these moments of light, these competitions, this feedback that was saying, There is something worth telling here. It's just not ready yet. So I think those two things just helped keep pushing.
Madeleine Cleary:So you signed in May, 2023. It's now March 2025,
Natasha Rai (2):almost two years. I know. And she said, when I said, Oh, when, when are you thinking? She goes March, 2025. My heart did sink a little bit. I have to admit, I was like, Oh, okay. And then I thought, who cares? I've come this far. Like what's another year and a half.
Madeleine Cleary:And have you, has the time been worthwhile,
Natasha Rai (2):do you feel? Oh, for sure. Because I've learned now so much more about editing than I learned from all the editors I've worked with across, across that time. And I've been working on other stuff as well. So I just, I feel like I'm, I've got a good, Way of doing that, where I can just put things aside and say, I cannot worry about that. I cannot do anything more about that. Let me focus on this. And that helps me go. And of course, our debut crew having this amazing community has all been amazing.
Madeleine Cleary:And I feel Natasha, your story throughout this journey of yours that you've gone down to your pathway to publication. The thing that stands out for me is the community for you and the connection. That's been a really big. support for you. And I think it's a testament to you that you go out there and make connections. There's a reason why you were the second person to reach or first person to reach out to me, number two member of the debut crew. And the way that you had talked about your story, like you, you signed up to the courses the year in the novel with Emily McGuire, Emily, and you are now very good friends. As a result of that, you keep maintaining these connections. You met that wonderful editor who helped you along the way. Like all these people have. Come, and Kate, obviously your champion.
Natasha Rai (2):Yes. She's in Pantera.
Madeleine Cleary:Yes. So do you wanna talk a little bit about the community and how important that is?
Natasha Rai (2):For sure. And this is one of my other top tips and I'm just sliding all into your episode. um, community is the thing because writing is obviously a solitary, um, exercise activity, but what it does listening to other writers talk about the writers is there is a thrill, a connection that feels so deep when somebody else. It's like, it's so true, isn't it? When you have somebody going, Oh my God, I totally understand it. You know, that timeline isn't working. Like, have you thought about, and you're having a discussion, a very serious discussion about something that is completely made up. There is nothing like it in the world. It is the most special thing ever. And so when you have that connection of people or people in your life that are willing to do that with you and you do that for them, and then of course it deepens, you read each other's work, you give feedback and you start to get a sense of somebody's style, somebody's habits, especially writing, I mean, and it just feels like a connection, like no other. And there'll be lots of false starts along the way, like, as a quick aside, years ago, I was trying to find my community in terms of swapping work to give feedback. And I found somebody online and we swapped our work. And two days before we had agreed the deadline to give the feedback, she said, I'm so sorry. I can't reach a manuscript. It's too triggering. And it was another manuscript. It wasn't even on sort. And I had taken the time, obviously to read her manuscript, to write detailed notes, to do all of it. And I was so crushed.
Um, by
Natasha Rai (2):that. So it is a little bit like dating for the single writers out there where you can meet people and it's not a good fit, but persevere, persevere, persevere.
Madeleine Cleary:Emily McGuire once said to me when I met her for the first time in a, an event in Melbourne, we were talking about you, Natasha. Oh God. Okay. She said, you are a beautiful writer, but you're also an excellent reader. And you've read a lot of her early work. She said you are an incredible observer and great reader. Reading I think is another top tip, isn't it? When it comes to writing.
Natasha Rai (2):I have met writers who are like, I don't read. I'm like, what? How can you possibly write anything? Oh yeah. I read, I read, I read. I mean, I think one of my biggest flaws with reading is I do tend to only read in my, in Genre, which is literary fiction. So I am trying to widen and broaden that. Um, but I love reading, like reading for me is like breathing. You know, when people say, Oh no, I've got to make time for it. And I'm like, it's like saying I'm going to make time to live. Like what? Um, yeah, I don't leave the house without a book in my bag or an audio book. If I don't carry a bag, like it's impossible.
Madeleine Cleary:Yes. I totally understand. Okay. So your book's coming out in the world after so many years. What are you most excited about?
Natasha Rai (2):I'm really excited about sharing the story. Um, with people, I'm excited about the idea that somebody might pick it up and say, Oh my God, that resonates with me, or that resonates with parts of my experience. And there is hope that there is a way to change. And just also just reading something that's really different. Australian stories, especially growing up, were either set in the bush or parts of cities that, and lives that had nothing to do with mine, that I really wanted because I thought that was what was the right thing for me to want. Um, so. Yeah, I think those things are what I'm most excited about.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh, I am so excited to come out into the world and to tell everyone about how amazing it is. I just couldn't believe it's a debut. It's been through a lot of work.
Natasha Rai (2):It has, it really has.
Madeleine Cleary:And what are you writing next as well? I'm sure this will be a common question in all your interviews. What is it that you're working on now, Natasha?
Natasha Rai (2):So, uh, because I'm me and I don't make life easy for myself, I'm working on two things actually. You're like Tina then. Oh yes, I guess so. Um, yeah. So one is something, a manuscript I've been working on for about four years, maybe even longer. Um, it's set across three timelines. I think I have a thing for timelines, Madeleine. You do. You do. You do it well though. So continue. Um, and I'm just struggling with one of the timelines, which is why it's taken me so long. And the other one is more, um, of a single timeline, single point of view. It's a meditation on grief.
So
Natasha Rai (2):I keep going back and forth because I feel differently about different things at certain times, but that's what I'm working on.
Madeleine Cleary:I forgot to ask you as well. What, what was the inspiration behind the title?
Natasha Rai (2):Ah, yes. So, um, I'm terrible at titles. Um, so I usually don't have any titles for anything. Um, I think it was called Untitled by Natasha Rack? Well, it was called Arch, I think, for ages, just as a file name. And it was, I was writing, I was writing a scene one day, and I just wrote without meaning to, I just wrote something about the sun coming out from behind the clouds, and she was hit by an onslaught of light. And I'm like, whoa, that sounds good. I know the scene.
Madeleine Cleary:It was in the Blue Mountains.
Natasha Rai (2):Yes, that's right. And I'm like, that's it. That's the title. So that's how it came about.
Madeleine Cleary:Love it. Okay, so you have given us so many top tips already. Do you have a final top tip, Natasha?
Natasha Rai (2):Keep going. You just have to keep going. If you really want to be traditionally published, you have to persevere. Take the time you need when you get disappointed. Take the time, take a day, take a week, take a month, whatever you need, and allow that to come in, because you know some people, I think sometimes you think, well you have to keep going, which means you can't acknowledge those feelings, you totally should, because disappointment is real, it's crushing, but don't let it bow you out, and don't let it break you down, just use it as a way to say, well you know what, it's No, I still have something to say, and I'm going to keep going.
Madeleine Cleary:I want to write down all your advice, Natasha, and just put it on wall on my walls in my office. Like, I feel like you're, you have some great quotes to put around. I could listen to you talk for days.
Natasha Rai (2):Well, it's been a real pleasure to be on here and talking to you like this. I've really loved it.
Madeleine Cleary:I have loved it as well. So thank you for joining us, Natasha. Thank you, Madeleine. Good
Natasha Rai (2):luck.
Tina Strachan (2):Thanks. Thank you for listening to the book deal podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the pod so you can receive updates as soon as our new apps drop and to keep up to date with what the pod is doing. You can also find us on Instagram.