The Book Deal
Motivation and inspiration for emerging writers, helping them pave their own pathway to publishing success.
The Book Deal
Debut Panel: Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell on memoir writing and sharing personal stories
WARNING: This episode contains explicit language.
Debut Panel: Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell on writing memoir, book deals and more
In this episode of The Book Deal podcast, Madeleine interviews debut authors Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell. Carly-Jay discusses her critically acclaimed (and darkly funny) memoir about living and dying, Breath (March 2024, UQP). Christine talks about her memoir, Five Seasons in Seoul (March 2025, Affirm Press), which explores her time living in South Korea as a theatre performer and dealing with anxiety and depression following her father's death. Both authors share insights on the challenges of writing memoirs, structuring their stories, and the impact of memoir writing on their personal lives. They also discuss the process of securing book deals and the positive reception their books have received.
Additionally, the episode highlights Carly-Jay's involvement with Chapters for Change, a non-profit focused on improving literacy for children in Cambodia. You can sign up right now to be part of the July Readathon! And why not? You can read while raising money for a brilliant cause. All the details are here.
Carly-Jay recommends Catherine Wheel by Liz Evans (August 2024, Ultimo Press)
Christine recommends Bloomer by Carol Lefevre (25 March 2025, Affirm Press)
00:00 Introduction to the Book Deal Podcast
00:43 Meet the Debut Memoir Authors
02:02 The Debut Crew Experience
04:53 Carly-Jay Metcalfe's Award-Winning Memoir
08:43 Christine Newell's Memoir Journey
12:21 Writing and Structuring a Memoir
26:04 The Path to Publication
28:49 Inside the Publishing House
29:55 The Pressure of an Unfinished Manuscript
32:05 Manuscript Appraisal and Feedback
34:25 The Emotional Journey of Publication
42:04 Social Media and Reader Reactions
49:10 Final Thoughts and Recommendations
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This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories, the authors behind your favorite books. No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got you covered. I'm Tina Strachan. And I'm Madeleine Cleary. And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
Madeleine Cleary:The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners, the land and waters, which it's recorded on. And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging. I had the privilege of speaking to two incredible debut writers of memoir Carly-Jay Metcalfe and Christine Newell. Carly-Jay Metcalfe's Debut Breath, published by Uqp hit shelves in March, 2024 to much critical acclaim winning the Queensland Literary Awards People's Choice Book of the Year Award. And Christine Newell, who recently published her memoir, five Seasons in Seoul in March, 2025 with Affirm press after being long listed for the 2024 Hawkeye Publishing manuscript development prize. Carly and Christine are beautiful storytellers, so I'll let them tell you their tales. And while their memoirs are very different, I was struck by their generosity and courage to share not just their memories of the things happening around them, but also their inner thoughts too. It is a powerful thing to release a memoir, allowing us as readers to get a glimpse inside how another experiences the world. These two incredible women capture life in all its facets, the grief, the trauma, but also the joy of the small and brilliant moments. Christine Newell and Carly-Jay Metcalfe. Welcome to the Book Deal podcast. Thank you so much. Thanks Madeleine. Great to have you both here. We were just having such good pre-chat podcast chats that I just had to hit record because we were talking about the day brew crew and what I realized, which is really interesting, you've both released memoirs, um, both in March as well, Carly. Yours was first last year in 2024, and Christine this year, and this is our first debut crew, 20 24, 20 25 crossover. Harley, how was the experience for you having that support group last year? It was, or
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:it
Madeleine Cleary:is such
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:a beautiful group of people. Um, most of, I don't know if this is the same with you, Christine, but most of the, uh, authors have written fiction, so I think there were maybe. 65 or 70 people in the group, and I think five or six of us had written memoir. Um, so, but yeah, incredibly supportive and just, and just always propping each other up and rather hilarious, like lots of hilarious conversations and, and also very honest, also very honest about the whole process. So yeah, it was fantastic.
Christine Newell:Yeah, I think there's only one other. Uh, author who has written a memoir in our group this year. Am I right Madeleine? Yeah, I'm not too sure. It's hard to keep up,
Madeleine Cleary:isn't it? We're just saying it's growing quickly, but it's great support. We've, um, and Christine and I have, you know, become really good friends out of, out of this, where we share the same publisher, but being part of the same group. I think there's, writers just have this, when you meet other writers, you just feel this instant connection, feel.
Christine Newell:Yeah, it's always so easy I find, and it's so lovely to have a few of the debut crew in Melbourne as well, because we're all spread out and so then when you finally get the chance to meet in real life, after all of the messaging back and forth, it's, yeah, it's the best feeling. Yeah,
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:absolutely. Yeah. I, I, I developed a couple of really close, um, friendships and one, uh, is Arianne Beon who wrote, because I'm Not myself, you see, and I did an in conversation with her at Avid Reader when she came up. Um, so meeting her for the first time, but having just been emailing and texting and the rest of it for months and months, it was just, it, it was so exciting to see her.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh, it's so special, isn't it? It's, um, yeah, I think, um, there is gonna be a 2026 day boot crew as well. So for anyone who's listening, who's getting their books published next year, Sophie Stern, uh, an author, she has set that group up so. Please do reach out to Sophie and be part of this wonderful community that we have. Let's talk about books. I think this is very exciting. Um, Carly, I might start with you as you were the first one to be published in this group. Uh, can you tell us a little bit about your incredible award-winning memoir? Breath? I guess
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:breath is about being born with a terminal illness, in my case, cystic fibrosis. Uh, and it covers my childhood, my double lung transplant when I was 21, and all of the other I. Non-medical adventures and misadventures. So I guess it's an exploration of life, death, sex, drugs, rock and roll. I think, um, the book is a little, uh, undefinable. It's not a medical memoir. It's not a trauma or a cancer memoir. It's not a misery memoir. There's something in it for everyone. This is what I keep hearing.
Madeleine Cleary:Yeah, I, I completely agree. Um, my husband and I, we actually listen to it in on an audio format, um, on some road trips. And, um, and I think for us, we, when you pick it up, you go, oh, I expect that I'm gonna cry in this book. And you do, you absolutely do cry. So we're weeping as we're like driving along the Hume Highway, but, but what I didn't expect, and this is something you were mentioning earlier before our pre-chat. How much we were laughing as well. And then we're also, when we start laughing about things, and I'll put like a little trigger warning here. Um, CU cancer. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Especially in audio format, the way that it was delivered, these lines, like, we couldn't stop laughing and then I felt really bad about laughing.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:No. What we discussing, I can make, I can make a joke out of. Pretty much anything. So laugh away. Laugh away at my expense.
Madeleine Cleary:And I suppose, you know, if you're not laughing, you're crying. If you're not crying, you're, you have to laugh, right?
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Exactly. Yeah, that's right. If you, if you don't laugh, then you are on the floor in the fetal position, uh, never
Madeleine Cleary:wanting to come up again. Exactly. Exactly. No, it's an absolutely incredible debut and um, yeah, and it's obviously took massive critical acclaim, so congratulations on that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Um, so you actually said in when you are writing it that you never expected that it would be, um, something that would be cathartic.'cause often they say writing a memoir, it's a very cathartic thing, particularly if you've gone through a lot of trauma like you have. Yeah. But you also didn't expect it to be so hard to write. So have what drew you to writing this memoir?
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Oh, it's, it's good. This is gonna sound very strange, but I actually started writing my first memoir when I was 11 years old. Um, I've been through so much already that I had enough material for a book, which is so abnormal when you really think about it. Uh, and I think, you know, I've always written, um, I still have my first short story that I wrote in HB pencil on Phil's cap paper. I think I was about eight. Um, and I was fortunate in that I could already read and write before I started school. So I can't really remember a time when I wasn't writing. Um. I wrote a lot in high school because I, I spent about a third of my time in hospital during high school. I ended up doing some of my HSC exams, um, in hospital. Um, and there were some pretty awful things happening around me, like the deaths of friends who also had cf. I wrote a lot of really dark poetry, which is so funny to look back on now. And I still have all of those notebooks. Um, I, I was, I was obsessed with Sylvia Plat and she's still one of my
Madeleine Cleary:great loves. So it sounds like it was a, a bit of an escape too, reading and writing. Um, yeah, absolutely. For sure.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Writing this
Madeleine Cleary:memoir was no easy task. No, I can imagine. Um, what, Christine, tell us a bit about your memoir. Five Seasons and so, and, and was it, was it something that was cathartic for you? I.
Christine Newell:Yeah, so look, five Seasons in Seoul is a memoir about my experience living and performing in South Korea. Uh, it's an exploration of Korean life, the food landscape, and culture. But it's also a, a very, a deeply personal story about my battle with anxiety and depression following the death of my father after a, a, a prolonged illness. And the ways in which immersing myself in Korean culture helped me. To, to heal.
Madeleine Cleary:Mm. And so was it cathartic for you then to write?
Christine Newell:Yeah, it really was. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I had my moments when, you know, it is hard to revisit those times in your life, especially when you have hindsight. So I'm obviously writing it quite a few years later with a lot of hindsight. So at times I, I felt frustrated with myself at times. I just felt. Yeah. You know, revisiting some of that trauma can be difficult. Um, before I left for career, I was at a, at very much, at probably the lowest point I'd ever been in my life. So revisiting that was difficult, but I also did find it cathartic because it helped me during the writing process, I think I gained a greater understanding of myself. Mm. And a greater understanding of my time. In, in South Korea as well. So it was actually a mostly a really beautiful thing for me.
Madeleine Cleary:Being an expat, I think too, um, it's, it's a very formative time if for people who have gone and lived overseas. It, it, um, not only opens up your worldview and you get to experience a different culture, you, you feel like you have changed yourself. But I. And perhaps when you come home, things have stayed quite the same and there's a bit of a disconnect, and then you start questioning, well, where is home? Did you find that too? Oh
Christine Newell:look, absolutely. Yes. When I first went over it was a huge period of transition and I think, um, I. You know what was slightly unique about my experience is that I wasn't over there to teach English. And I think at the time a lot of the expat community were English teachers over in South Korea. I think it's shifting now, but this was around 20 years ago when we didn't have anywhere near the access to other cultures that we do now through Netflix and. All sorts of things. Um, so it was, I was very, I went over alone to work for a Korean theater company, a bilingual theater company. But I was in a situation where most conversations happened in Korean first, so English wasn't. The first language in the workplace. So I very much lived, I was fully immersed in Korean life during my time there. I didn't really have much to do with an expat community at all, so there wasn't, it was a huge transition when I went over and then You're completely right. It was like when I came home, I felt in a way that same sense of disconnect. I felt when I first arrived. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it's a very, very formative time in, in so many ways. Um, and because it happened during a time when I was so incredibly vulnerable as well, um, I think the impact was, was so much greater on, on my life.
Madeleine Cleary:Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's such a stunning, um, book debut novel, Christine. You know, we've spoken at length about this. I just absolutely loved it. So highly, highly recommend that listeners, um, read both our book, both the books, um, that Carle and Christine have. But now I wanna talk a little bit about where you start, uh, with a M1. Kylie, I might, um, start with you, um, since you've been drawing from, you know, uh, materials from since you're a child, what, how, what, how do you start? You've, you've obviously got, so you've got journals, you've got the people around you telling stories. Um, what do you trust and how do you start?
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Yeah, that's interesting. And, and I, what Christine mentioned before about anxiety and depression. Um, when I did knuckle down to really start writing this memoir in 2018, I had a major depressive episode and I was thinking, is this, is this worth it? Um, and I didn't know if it was going to be, but I had to back myself and, and it was, it was worth it. Like there was no way. I couldn't not. Finish it. I. No intention of coming that far, only to set it on fire. So I turned up at my desk most days and just retraumatized myself. Not for fun, but I had to get those stories down. Uh, as for, um, yeah, the idea of memory, like it's, it, it's, it's. An interesting question because memory's so subjective, isn't it? Um, the material for the book, I had a blog many years ago when everyone was blogging. I retired my blog not long after I started really not playing down with the story. So I had material I'd been able to pull from that. But other, I mean really other than that, I was totally reliant on my memory and. I think I have a bit of what's called total recall. It's not a photographic memory per se, but I remember events from my childhood in and of, and adulthood in very vivid detail. And people backed me up on my story. So that was kind of strangely validating. Um, and I didn't really s sit through my journals until towards the end, and everything was as just. Was just as I had remembered, and it's funny, my friends get a bit freaked out because I can remember seemingly insignificant details and they were like, they're like, how do you, how do you remember that? And it's, it's just, it's just there. It's very easily accessible for me.
Madeleine Cleary:I wonder if it's, it's, it might be similar with Christine as well, when you're going through something that is so unique. And and frightening and anxiety inducing and you feel that your threat response emerging, that your memory starts recalling those types of things. It could go the opposite as well. You could try and block those things, but it's amazing how much detail you remember. And Christine, you were remembering things like the meals you ate. And this is all based off things that happened 20 years ago and you didn't have those diaries.
Christine Newell:Yeah, you're right. And I think my experience was very, very similar to what, uh, Carly-Jay has just said. I, I didn't keep journals either. Um, and I, I also feel like I have quite a good memory for detail. And again, I know that memory can play tricks on you. Um, but I think when something is so transformative, either. In both ways, either if it's quite traumatic or if it's something that's really incredibly joyous and something that has been such a significant part of your life. I think it, it stays with us in so many different ways. Um, and I did a similar thing. I had my colleagues who could back me up. I have, um, a huge photo album just full of photos that I took during my, my year in South Korea. And I actually, it, it surprises me how much I relied on those. So I would. Start with, with the memory that I had and the way that I thought things played out, but then I would go back and, you know, try to back myself and look at photos to make sure, um, with my childhood, like I still have my beautiful mom. And, um, she was really great at, at, at talking those things through and me saying, look, this is how it felt to me. Do you think that that's true? Of the experience for you as an adult and is that how you remember it? So, um, and I mean, so much of memoir is about how, is through the author's eyes, how they experience the world, how they felt. Um, but you know, there is that line of, of wanting to back it up and, and have it come from a, a place of truth. So I think walking that line is really important. So I did a lot of research as well, um, to, to back myself.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:That, that's interesting you say that about your mom, because I'm so close to my mom, we're, we're almost like the same person because she essentially, you know, nursed me for the first 21 years of my life. Um, and, and then yeah, we're, we're, we're incredibly close. And I, I would say to her, how do you remember it being? And then I would say, okay, well, that's how I remember it as well. So, yeah. Yeah, and photos. Photos. I've actually got photos of my transplant surgery, so looking back at those, obviously I was, I was sedated. Um, but it's just fascinating to look back at those and to also see, uh, it was like a photo documentary, so to see my friends and family at different stages of the night when I got called up for the transplant. So photos are so important. Yeah.
Christine Newell:Yeah. Those little details in photos too. Like, I think when we look at photos, we just see what's at the, at the forefront. But when you are trying to research and, and recall memories, it's looking at all those tiny little things in the background. Like even for me, street signs and what people were wearing and all of that kind of thing. It, it really brings it all back.
Madeleine Cleary:Mm-hmm. Hmm. Um, so you've got all these, you've got photos, you've got your family, you've got, um, some journals. You've got your writing, your memories. How, where do you start in terms of structure? How do you put all this together? And Carly, I might start with you. That was, I, that was
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:the main problem I had was I was like, I've got 120,000 words, which I knew was too long. And I cut it too, I think. 80,000 or 70, 80,000.
Madeleine Cleary:That's a huge exercise, Carly, that's massive. Cutting 40,000
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:words. Yeah, I was just, I, I, I looked at the manuscript and I thought, if this isn't driving the story forward, it goes, I'm ruthless. So, which is, which is I guess a good thing, a good thing in hindsight. Um, but structure is what I have the most difficulty with. I didn't want it to be. Chronological, like I was born in 1976 and, but it, I mean, it does, it, it starts with me being in the dying room at 21 knowing that I'm about to die, and then it sort of goes a little bit, weaved it in and out of my childhood and then into adulthood. So I just, I didn't want it to be. This really boring, chronological story where, you know, fact after factors laid out. So I did have issues with the structure, and this is where my wonderful editor, Jack Wool and Blanchard from UQP came in and saved the day.
Madeleine Cleary:It certainly, um, was not a boring story. Carly, I was riveted from that first opening scene of you in the hospital. No, you wanna die. Um. And obviously spoilers you didn't, um, yes, spoiler alert she lives, but, um, it, I thought it was just a beautifully structured thing, and even at the ending as well, your reflections about, um, society and, and comments about death and how we treat death. I think it was, um, yeah, beautifully structured. So that's why I was so interested to know how you did that. Christine, what about you? Did you find it natural to write a memoir?
Christine Newell:Um. In some ways I did, because I think it had been kind of burning inside me this desire to write this story, and it just took some time for, you know, to get all my ducks in a row and be able to give myself the permission I needed to devote my time and energy to such a big task. Um, but I guess one thing that I really tried to focus on was that I didn't. I want it to be too heavy on the personal backstory. And then at the same time, it was really important for me to place certain things about Korean culture and my time there in historical and cultural context as well for the reader, um, and also for, for accuracy. So, um, for me, my biggest challenge was about getting that balance right. I didn't want it to be suddenly, I didn't want it to suddenly read like, you know, uh uh. A historical kind of account of the Korean War, for example, or, um, and then I didn't want it to be too heavy on the backstory, so for me it was just about getting that balance right and trying to then sustain that all the way through. I did do quite a few, um, memoir writing workshops. Before I started, or not long after I started. And I also have a great book called Writing True Stories by Patti Miller, who is a a, an Australian memoirist. And that was very much my, my bible during that time. So I really turned to that a lot to help me stay out of those, those traps. You know, I, I also didn't want it to just be kind of a boring chronological. Um, account. So I also do a lot on Korean culture and I think, you know, the different, um, patterns of the year and the cycles there to help get me out of that kind of, okay, so today I did this and then another month passes and then this happened. Um, and I think it's also about deciding what's important, uh, you know, with, with that kind of to avoid all of that excess and that excess word count.'cause I was the same. I had to cut. A little bit, not, not a huge amount, but um, yeah, it's just about, I think looking really deep into the story and deciding what is important, what is it about this particular event that I want to convey. I.
Madeleine Cleary:The other thing, Christine, consideration for you as you're writing about a culture that is not your own as well, uh, Korean culture, how did you, and I think you, you do it really beautifully. It's, um, you know, it's there, there's a risk that you could be critiqued for, um, you know, using appropriation of culture for your novel, but I, I think it was beautifully done. What considerations and thought
Christine Newell:did you put into that? Look, it was a huge responsibility. I very much felt the weight of that from the word go. Um, it was so important to me when I made the decision to do this that I portrayed Korean culture res both respectfully and accurately. Um, but then you've also got your own personal experience to balance in there. And memoir, as I said before, it comes from, from the author's experience of how, how they experience this world. So I think. As I went on, the, the way I approached it was to start with my own experience, to start with what happened and how I felt, how it felt to me, and then go and back that experience with research and also place it in that historical and cultural context to give it a a, a broader meaning, and also to make sure. That I was explaining it in the best possible way that I could. So I did do an awful lot of research, um, even if a, a, a lot of it I already knew to be true, even if it was something that my colleague said to me about Korean culture and I should. Behave in this way. I then went back and researched that for my own understanding and so that I knew how I could best explain that to the reader. So, um, yeah, look, hopefully I did that. I was very nervous about, um, yeah, being accused of, of. Of not representing Korean culture, um, accurately. But um, yeah, all I know is that I did a lot, a lot of research and I, I backed myself every step of the way. And I just think that's so important. If you can get to the end and know that you came from a place of respect and love, which. Is very much what motivated me to write this book. Um, and I think that's another thing I learned in those writing workshops is to, when you're writing a memoir, is to question your motivation and not just your motivation for writing the book, but your motivation for writing a particular scene. And I think that's very important when you are also involving other people because your story is going to implicate other people and you are sharing, you are sharing their life. As well. So I think if you can question your motivation and you know that it's coming from a, a, a, a good place and a place of respect and love, then I think that puts you on a good path to start off with.
Madeleine Cleary:So many. I have so many questions. But to start, let's, let's just go back to, um, now talking about, um, the process to publication. We are the book deal podcast. We're very interested in book deals and how you get them. And then I wanna talk about reception to that and people who find out that you're writing memoir, people who find out you're publishing it, people who might feature in the story. So, Carly, I might start with you. You mentioned your lovely editor at UQP. Could you talk a little bit about your process to getting your book deal? What helped you to secure that and what your experience was?
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Yeah, I. I was doing post-grad study at the University of Queensland and my supervisor said I should apply for the UQP writing mentorship, um, which I wasn't going to do because I didn't really think I had a chance. Uh, but to my great surprise and delight, I won and. After a couple of mentoring sessions with my now publisher, the fabulous Madonna Duffy, I was offered a publishing contract four months later. Um, it, it all happened very quickly. Wow. I was offered book, yeah. I was offered the book deal in March, 2023 and the book was printed by December, so it was, that's turn whiplash. But it was exhilarating and it made me feel very alive. Um, and I loved every moment of the publishing process. I just loved it.
Mm.
Christine Newell:And Christine. I'm the same. I loved every, every step of it. I mean, you have moments where it's stressful and you are racing to meet a deadline, but overall it's just such a, it's such a privilege to have a beautiful team of creative like-minded people who are all dedicated to your project. I mean, how often does that happen? You know, that you have a team dedicated to making your project and your very personal story the best it can possibly be. So I think for me. I was kind of just plotting away in the background and I had intentions of pursuing publication, so I was. Just trying to educate myself as much as I could, attending workshops, listening to, to podcasts like this. I wish this podcast was around because it would've been great. Um, and I initially, I think one of the turning points for me was that I, in, I attended a. A workshop where I was given the chance to practice pitching my book to a publisher. And it really was just supposed to be a practice pitch. You didn't have to have a finished manuscript. And, and I certainly didn't. Um, but at that time, the publisher that I was. Uh, practicing two for feedback actually requested my manuscript so that it was just that little, that moment that said, okay, I'm not crazy for doing this. You know? What was the workshop Christine for? Yeah, sure. Yeah. It was actually, I mean, it was more than a workshop. It was a fantastic event through the emerging writers festival called Inside the Publishing House, where they basically give you like a. A backstage tour, that's my theater talk coming out, but a backstage tour behind the scenes of a publishing house and, and everything that each department does. And it was absolutely fascinating. And then part of that is that you do attend a, a workshop on, uh, on how to pitch. Your book, and then you are just given an option. It's, it's not part of it. Like you can decline, but at the end you can just book in for a five minute chance to basically just put into practice what you've learned. Um, so, and why not, why would you decline it as well? Not,
I know, I mean.
Christine Newell:You know, it was, it was perfect. Like I was madly taking notes through the whole thing and then I had a little bit of time to kind of rework what I already had based on what I'd learned in that, in that short amount of time. And yeah, what I mean, what if you got to lose? Um, but it's interesting though,'cause it was a learning point, is that a practice pitch isn't necessarily just a practice pitch. So I think that's also something to remember.'cause then I felt, even though the publisher didn't pressure me, I felt an. Awful amount of pressure to get that manuscript finished. Um, and so you pitched and you, they requested it and you hadn't finished your manuscript yet, is that right? Or hadn't? Yeah, that's correct. I hadn't finished it because it wasn't a requirement. Like with the Australian Society of Authors Speed Dating, you must have a finished manuscript, but this is more of an educational. Setting. Um, so yeah, it wasn't a requirement and I didn't have a finished manuscript, but it was just Did you feel the pressure when they said, yeah. Would love to see it? It was insane, yes. And you know, in some ways it served me well. In other ways it didn't. So what it did do was. I absolutely 100% committed to getting that manuscript finished. So, not everything else, just the manuscript was my priority, which I hadn't really given myself complete permission to do. But I think knowing that someone was interested and knowing that, you know, perhaps this idea did have something going for it, um, yeah, just changed my entire approach. Um, so I spent the, you know, the summer that followed, that working incredibly hard on the manuscript and. I sent it off and at the time I thought it was ready, like I had worked very hard. Um, I put pressure on myself, but I didn't really, I hadn't kind of just rushed it and gone, okay, I just need to get this out. Um, but what I didn't have was distance from the manuscript, and I think that was one of the biggest things I learned through that journey. So I got it done. I sent it off, I thought it was ready, and then. It was literally just a few weeks later, after having a little bit of a break from it and going back to it, I just went,
oh,
Christine Newell:I'm not sure that it was ready, because all of a sudden, once the pressure was off, I just had all these ideas of how I could expand it and make it better. And, and as it turns out, you know, that opportunity, it didn't lead to anything. Um, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile. Um, so from that point, I then. Continued to work on the manuscript for, uh, another 12 months. I sent it off for a manuscript appraisal. Um, and then when, where did you do that? So where did you get it appraised? Yeah. I actually went to Patty Miller. Mm-hmm. Um, because she specializes in memoir and I just felt like that was the best. Place for me. I'd done some workshops with her. I'd had a little kind of, she offers a great service, which is just like an online kind of consultation where you could, I could pay by the hour because obviously as a, as a writer and someone who's always worked in the arts as well, um, as a theater performer, um, you know, the budget is tight. Mm-hmm. We don't. Money to throw at these things. Um, and I just felt that what Patty Miller offered was something that was accessible. Um, so I had a, like a one hour consultation initially just to kind of sound her out. And that was in the very early stages. And then when I knew that the manuscript appraisal was the way to go, I, I went back to her. Um, and it was actually one of her. Um, partners that, that did the, the appraisal,'cause she was busy writing another book. Um, and his name was Anthony Reer. He's actually, I think he's actually Patty Miller's husband, but he's also her professional partner and he was just wonderful. Um, he just showed me things that I couldn't see myself because I was too close to it. Mm-hmm. But also told, was very, uh, forthcoming about what I'd done well. So it gave me so much confidence, but it also showed me where. I could absolutely improve this manuscript. And from there I just devoted everything I had to it. And it was eventually the literary speed dating. Um, I felt like the verbal pitching worked quite well for me because I do have a performing background and I quite enjoyed it. So, um, it was the Australian Society of Authors Literary Speed Dating that eventually led to my publication deal with Affirm Press and, and Ruby Ashby, or so I pitched to Ruby at the a SA and um, even that didn't happen straight away, but, but it did happen so.
Madeleine Cleary:What a story, Christine, and that shows as well that you know, this is a series of years. First time when you, when I publish a request, your manuscript, it's so exciting. Doesn't necessarily mean though that they're gonna take it on. It's really tough. But you've gone back, you've done the work, you've made it right. Carly, I'm really interested When, when did it start feeling real to you? Was it when you signed the book deal or was it when you saw it on the shelf? Or was it when you won the Queensland literary? Award. Like where, when did it feel real? Um,
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:it, I think it was when, uh, I remember when I picked up my first, like when, well, when my first box of books arrived and I, instead of doing the, uh, traditional unboxing. Oh, yes. Um, yeah. I actually, as you would know from reading my memoir, my parents are just both extraordinary people and so is my sister. And my sister, she knew that I had the box of books, so she was like screaming madly. Um, but she wrapped them up, mom and dad, and they had no idea. Um, so I took a video of them unboxing it because it was. Just as much their story as mine. Right. Um, and I will never forget the look on their faces. Uh, it was just, it made everything, all of the pain, all of the, the times I was, you know, on the floor in tears. It, it made it all worth it. And yeah, it was just, it was,
Madeleine Cleary:yeah. Something I'll never forget. And this is the thing about, I'm like tearing up here. Just, that's just, I can just imagine like the, the, your parents just sound like absolute wonderful people, so it's what a moment for them. But writing books, it's not just about us, is it? It's, it's about all the people around us and the impact that our words have on others. It's, it's, and particularly when it's about memoir and it's about them too. It's their, it's your story. It's also their story. What was their reaction when you first told them about. The book and the deal and that it was,
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:well, I mean, I, I've always written, so they, they've always known that I've been sort of working away quietly, um, on writing my stories down. I didn't like to say I was writing a memoir. I felt like a very old white, politic male politicians saying, I'm writing my memoir. Um, so I said, I, when people asked, I would just say, I'm just writing my stories down, but. Then I was like, okay, just accept the word Carly. Just accept it. So I did. Um, and yeah, so I, yeah. Surprised them on the day that I was offered the book deal. And they were just, yeah, my parents and my sister were just absolutely so wrapped, so chuffed. Yeah. We celebrated.
Madeleine Cleary:Christine, you're nodding.
Christine Newell:Yeah, look, I think it was, you know, it's similar for me in that, um, because I was writing, I mean, my book is a travel memoir, um, and a lot of it is about South Korea and South Korean culture. But also a very big part of it was my personal journey with, with my father's illness. And that started when I was five. So, you know, I was very much telling his story. His story and um, you know, he's obviously no longer, no longer with us. Um, so I was really relying on my mom to be, I guess, my, my compass with that. Um, and she was just such a huge, a huge part of the entire journey. She knew that I was, that I was writing a memoir, although I did also struggle with that word. Um, it's, yeah, really interesting. There's just something about it to actually tell someone that, oh, well, I'm writing a memoir. About my own life. Just I'm gonna be really, I'm gonna be
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:really honest, I felt like a total blanker saying I'm writing a memoir. I
Christine Newell:implying that I am just so interesting. Yes. Everybody would hear about my life and it just, yeah, I, I'm, I'm pleased that you kind of said that, Kelly, because I just, yeah, I really struggled too. Um, but look, she did, my mom did know and a few close friends knew. And then for the rest. I played it down very much. Oh, I'm just, just writing a little book, just writing a bit about my time in South Korea and all of that. So I think, look, the moment it felt real for me was when I got my publication date. Because you kind of start the journey and you don't have that, and you've got that big kind of hurdle of the first big structural edit, and there's something in your mind that still thinks, oh, it's a bit, I felt like it was a bit of a test. It's not that my publisher made me feel that way, but that structural edit. It is a test because can you, you know, can you come up with the goods? That's the biggest. Thing that you face, I think is that structural edit and whether or not you can get through that. Um, and or at least that's how it felt to me. So getting through the structural edit and then getting my publication date, that's when it really started to feel real. Of course, the offer was, I. Insanely exciting, and I was so excited when I told my mom she could not understand what I was saying, and then I was so frustrated that she wasn't reacting with, you know, the amount of excitement that I thought she would, but she just had no idea what I was blabbing about. I was half laughing, half crying, you know, extremely hysterical. And she was just like, I, I'm, I'm really lost here. Get out. So, you know, telling her was an incredible moment. But then you get into the hard work and the, the business side of things and then the excitement fades into the background and you just wanna do the best possible possible job you can. Um, and then publication date, and then obviously yes, the delivery was so exciting and, you know, giving that book to my mom for the first time and her seeing that I had dedicated it to her and the memory of my dad. Um, you know, I really wanted the book to be a tribute to them as well and everything that they had gone through and how hard they had fought in their lives. So that was a very special moment for her to be able to hold it and, and see that,
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:that, that, that part of our story sounds very similar. Kristin.
Yeah, I
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:dedicated the book to my parents and my sister for carrying me for all of these years.
Christine Newell:Yeah. That's so beautiful. Yes. And, and I feel that too. I mean, obviously our stories are completely different, but there is, there is that underlying
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Yeah.
Christine Newell:It's really beautiful. Yeah,
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:it's actually, I just tangent. Um, it's interesting because like, I was so excited. I'm a very calm person. Um, but. My sister said she didn't wanna read the book until the actual book was in her hands. So, um, I, I wasn't part of any writer's groups or anything like that. Um, I wasn't getting any feedback, so it was this solitary exercise of sitting down. I, I think writing for me is. Sitting down at my desk in my underwear, um, with a, with, with a cup of coffee and many cups of coffee and just, and just riding. And it's just, it's a very solitary, uh. Exercise and existence, but that actually suits me quite well.
Christine Newell:Yes, actually I also feel the same. I didn't, I wasn't part of a writer's group. Um, no one read the manuscript apart from Anthony Reader when I got the manuscript appraisal. And apart from, I assume, you know, the first publisher that I sent it to, no one else had read it. Um, and my mom didn't read it until after it was published and on the shelf. Um,
Madeleine Cleary:so let's talk about what happens then when it does come out and people are starting to read it, particularly those who you might be writing about in your book. Um, I. Carly, your book has received an amazing, um, reception. Um, I think people have, um, or the critics have critically claimed it. Um, you've won awards for it. Um, I'm, I'm sure as well you've also probably touched the hearts and minds of lots of readers, and you've probably received lots and lots of feedback. How's, how's that been for you?
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:It's. It's actually been really beautiful. Um, I think like as an author and particularly a memoirist, I think setting boundaries is really important. But I've been really fortunate. Every message I've received from readers has been so genuinely kind and lovely, but I. When you go into this, you don't know. You have no idea what, what to expect. Uh, when you put your story out there. And this is interesting, like last year I went on sabbatical from social media and made a very deliberate, uh, choice to stop sharing details about my personal life. Like I've written this book. I already felt like I've revealed enough about myself, maybe a bit too much, and I wanted to keep some parts of my life private just for me. So now I only post things related to the book. And having done that. I feel like I've reclaimed a deeper sense of privacy and, and a deep sense of who I am. And I don't get on Instagram and scroll anymore, and I, I find myself being very present. Um, instead of thinking about, you know, taking a photo. I'm just enjoying the moment and my life has radically changed for the better. And you know what? So has my writing.
Mm.
Madeleine Cleary:Oh, I love this. Um, this is very top topical for me at the moment because I do feel like social media, it is such a drain. They always say it's really important for us as authors to maintain it, but it is such a time suck, isn't it? And particularly, I think as a memoir, I was putting your story out there, then people probably feel the need that they wanna, they feel like they know you as well, so they're probably reaching out with good intentions. But that's key, isn't it? As a, as a author and someone who wants to maintain that privacy.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Yeah, I feel like I was worried that I would put my story out there and, because I have heard a few horror stories about memoirs, um, who get stalked and what have you, but putting my story out there, I thought because of, because it's out there, are people going to think they can ask me anything they want, um, like I kind of belong to them.
Mm.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Uh, because my story is out in the world. Uh, but that didn't happen. Everyone's been just so beautiful.
Madeleine Cleary:Mm. What about you, Christine? I mean, your book's only been out for a couple of months, but, uh, have you found social media, the contact, has that been interesting for you?
Christine Newell:Yeah, look again, everything has been really positive up to this point, which I'm really grateful for. Um, my biggest, I guess, concern I. Was my colleagues, um, because they played a very big part in my story. I worked for a very tight knit small theater company, um, and in particular my Korean colleagues. Um, and I guess how they perceived the book and how they received the book, and most importantly, how they received the way that I portrayed their culture. So that was my biggest concern and I was the, the most nervous about them reading it. And I, when I. Received a, a message from my senior colleague, Yohi, who was the senior member of the theater company, and got this beautiful kind of stamp of approval from her. And she actually, after she read it, she actually wrote this beautiful long review, um, on her blog. And she's, she's a very talented. Performer, um, cross-cultural theater practitioner, arts advocate. She's someone that I greatly respect and her opinion means a lot to me, but obviously it was even more important in this context. Um, and she wrote this beautiful review. I. Of the book and how she had felt about how she had received it, and I just burst into tears. I actually didn't realize at that point how, how nervous I was, not because I thought she would ever criticize me or, or do anything nasty, but just because I, I wanted to know that I have. Done her, done them justice, that I've done Korean culture justice, that I have done my colleagues justice and, and also that I've done my family justice. So yeah, I just absolutely burst into tears when I read that review and it was a massive turning point. I felt just this, I felt so much lighter. I didn't realize how much I was hanging onto that until it happened, and I felt like if I had her approval then the rest. Everything else was okay. Um, so that was huge. And yeah, look, I've had some really lovely messages on social media. I've had people reach out, which I love because for me, you know, it's about connection and I. For me when I've really struggled, memoir is something that I've always turned to, um, reading about other people's journeys and if people who have been through similar battles, similar mental health struggles and how they've kind of come out the other side has always helped me greatly. So I. I really wanted to contribute to that space and I'm, I'm really honored and really thrilled when people reach out. Um, and yeah, it's all been really lovely and positive so far. Um, and I think it's just if someone does cross that line, I did have one email that I just wasn't too sure about, so I just tried to focus on the positive and focus on, you know, what I could give back. And, um, just sent back something, uh, positive and polite and grateful that they've engaged. And then I just left, left the rest.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:I think
Christine Newell:kindness. Kindness is key. Yeah. I think it's more just that it was just infringing slightly on, on my personal space and I thought, okay, well I just don't, I just won't engage with that. There's plenty here that I can work with and I'm so grateful that this person has read my book and loved it. And you know, for, for anyone to jump on social media or jump on an email and take the trouble to tell you that they've, that your book has resonated or your story has resonated with them, I think is a really beautiful thing. But it is, you know, it is also about maintaining those boundaries. Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary:Absolutely, you have to also protect yourself. But it's so lovely to hear the positive reception to both your books, and I'm not at all surprised we have to wrap this up, which I'm really, really sad about. But before we do, um, Carly, you are a Chapters for Change Ambassador, I believe? Yes. And there's a readathon happening.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:Yes. The ONG for Chapters Change is in July, and Chapters for Change is an amazing not-for-profit organization who raised money to help literacy four children,, in Cambodia. So it's a, it's a fantastic initiative and I'm really proud and honored to be part of that.
Madeleine Cleary:Amazing. So we'll put up in our show notes, um, where you can participate in the July readathon. That sounds like an amazing initiative, and so we really encourage everyone to, um, get on board with that. Um, before we do finish, two quick questions for you both. Um, recommendation for a debut novel. Doesn't have to be a memoir, but it can be Christine.
Christine Newell:Oh, um, yes, I'd like to recommend actually, um, um, I will recommend a memoir'cause I think, you know, I'll just stay, stay on one theme. Um, and it's called Bloomer. It's by a, um, an author called Carol Lefevre. I hope I've pronounced that correctly. Um, and it's called Bloomer and it's a really beautiful, I've recently started reading it, I haven't finished yet, but it's a really beautiful reflection on aging and I think it's another really important. Topic, um, that tends to be shied away from. I'm seeing
Madeleine Cleary:this everywhere actually at the moment.
Christine Newell:Yeah, well look, I had the privilege of being on a panel with Carol at the Manly Writers Festival, and I just found her conversation and everything that she contributed. So enlightening and so important. So valid and, and just so beautiful. And when I started reading it, it just felt like a, a, a really big warm hug. So I, I'm gonna recommend bloomer. Yeah,
Madeleine Cleary:that's what we need in the world. Lots of warm hugs, I think Harley. I,
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:I dunno if you experienced this, Christine, but I couldn't read for most of last year, um, which sounds so antithetical to, you know, as a writer, but it was like my mind just had too many tabs open. But the first novel, yeah, the first novel I read was Catherine Wheel by Liz Evans. It's a psychological thriller, but the writing is so beautiful and it's also really taught, and Liz has this gift of being able to layer a story like every time you think you've got it, she adds another thread, and then she just calls more together, so masterfully, and she also happens to be an incredibly beautiful person.
Madeleine Cleary:Two great recommendations there. We'll also include those in our show notes. And to finish up, um, we always ask our guests to provide one last top tip and you've already both given so many. But, um, we will get you to finish off on that. So I'll start with Christine.
Christine Newell:Look, I'll go back to, uh, the advice that I was given in a memoir writing workshop, which was your motivation.'cause I think it's just an important check in a way to check in with yourself also to make sure that you're not going off track with your story. And also perhaps not get letting any personal, uh, feelings get too out of hand too. So it's just a great little check-in. And I used that all the way through, through the process.
Madeleine Cleary:That's a great one. Yes. Understanding why you're writing it and what the purpose of that particular word, paragraph chapter is really important. Yeah, for sure. Carly, can I sheet and give three really quickly? Absolutely. I will be listening to, I'm very here for your three topics, Carly.
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:The first is to read voluminously. The second is to get the most ruthless feedback you can get, because that's the only way you can hone. Or any craft and to look after your body, your eyesight, your neck, your back, like I'm only a couple of years away from 50 and I feel 95.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Christine Newell:Yeah,
Madeleine Cleary:that is. I actually just had a remedial massage yesterday and the, the masseuse,'cause I've got terrible lower back pain. I'm 34 and my back pain the last year has just gotten terrible and she kept totting and she was like my.
Christine Newell:We just productive, isn't it? Like it doesn't help you relax if someone is, is touching or saying, oh, so tight. I get that all the time. You're so tight and it's like, yeah, thanks. It's like why are your muscles clicking like this? Yeah. Yeah. But finding a healthy way to work, I think that's so important. Yeah.
Madeleine Cleary:Yes. Great. Yeah. Into our underwear. Yes. In your underwear. It's a bit cold down south to, to work in our underwear though. I think it's a bit warmer
Carly-Jay Metcalfe:being in Queensland. Um, I guess I have that luxury.
Madeleine Cleary:Well, thank you so much Carly and Christine. It's just been a great chat. I really appreciate it much for having you,
Madeleine. Thanks Madeleine. Thank you for listening to the Book Deal podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the pod so you can receive updates as soon as our new S drop and to keep up to date with what the pod is doing. You can also find us on Instagram.