Goodreads reviews, social media and day jobs: the reality of being a (newly) published author Artwork

The Book Deal

Motivation and inspiration for emerging writers, helping them pave their own pathway to publishing success.

The Book Deal

Goodreads reviews, social media and day jobs: the reality of being a (newly) published author

May 29, 2025 • Tina Strachan • Season 1 • Episode 35

Behind the scenes and the reality of being a (newly) published author - with Tina Strachan, Madeleine Cleary, and Natasha Rai.

Tina and Madeleine alongside our Takeover star, Natasha Rai, chat about their experiences as (newly) published authors. They each have prepared three surprise questions to ask each other, and of course Tina has prepared a spreadsheet to organise the asking of questions.

They discuss various aspects of the publishing journey, including the thrill of seeing their books on shelves, managing reviews on Goodreads, the challenges and joys of social media publicity, and their writing processes. The trio also delves into how publishing has impacted their day jobs and the value of having an agent. This episode is filled with valuable insights, playful banter, and practical tips for aspiring authors.

Nanna Croccles (1 May 2025, Scholastic Australia) by Susan Joy-Lu is this week's Debut in the Spotlight.

00:00 Introduction to The Book Deal Podcast

00:45 Meet the Hosts and Special Guests

01:38 First Time as Published Authors

02:53 Bookshop Encounters and Author Experiences

08:53 Balancing Day Jobs and Writing Careers

13:00 The Role of Literary Agents

16:16 Navigating Reviews and Reader Feedback

19:39 Highs and Lows of Being a Published Author

24:15 Looking Forward to Book Two

24:52 Excitement and Anxieties of Promoting a Book

26:00 The Journey of Writing and Publishing Book Two

28:13 Balancing Writing with Life and Expectations

34:56 Introducing Nana Crackles: A Delightful Debut

36:45 Reflecting on the Book Release Experience

43:12 Challenges and Joys of Publicity

49:34 Top Tips for Writers

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You can find out more about Tina and Madeleine and follow their journeys here:
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Tina Strachan children's book author
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Madeleine Cleary | Author

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Madeleine Cleary: 0:09

This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories, the authors behind your favorite books. No matter what sage of writing you are at, we've got you covered. I'm Tina Strachan. And I'm Madeleine Cleary. And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time. The Book Deal Podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on. And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.

Tina Strachan: 0:43

Welcome everybody to the Book Deal podcast. We have a really exciting episode for you today because it's not just me. My name's Tina Strachan, not just me today, but I'm also joined by Madeleine Cleary. Hello everybody. And Natasha Rai. Hello. It's so good to be here. Oh, all three of us today. Um, this is the first time we, all three of us have actually been, um, on the same pod together, isn't it? Yes, it is. Yeah. I'd like to say the same room together, but like can't. We're actually in three different states, so.

Madeleine Cleary: 1:13

We've all met each other separately, haven't we? Yeah, we just, yeah, we have. Yeah, we had it together. Together, which is so sad. We're gonna have to do that. We can, that could be a tax deductible thing. I think a trip, the three of us.

Tina Strachan: 1:26

End of

Madeleine Cleary: 1:26

your

Tina Strachan: 1:26

Christmas party. End of your work Christmas party. Yeah, let's do it. Oh, that'd be so fun. Oh, well, so in the, um, it's also really exciting too. Another first is that this is the first time that we've all come together as published authors. Mm. Yes. So I think the last time, last time I, I spoke to you, Madeleine,

Madeleine Cleary: 1:49

you were yet to release. That's right. So it was only a few days out, I think, wasn't it? And I'd seen it at Sorento, but not officially on a bookshelf, which is the important part I think it's seeing in a bookstore. Did you guys find, I'm curious, I know we've got, we've got so many fun things to talk about this episode, but just quickly, every time you see your book in a bookshop, you get the same thrill and rush.

2:12

Yeah. Definitely. Do you think it'll ever go away? I don't think so. I don't think so.

Madeleine Cleary (2): 2:21

How can it don't, it's just like, oh my God, there. It's, that's right. Yes. That's, that's the tone, isn't it? Oh my God, there, it's, it's every single time.

Tina Strachan: 2:29

Exactly.

Madeleine Cleary (2): 2:29

Yeah.

Tina Strachan: 2:29

Exactly. And a little bit of unbelievable still, like, it still feels to me like a little bit like, oh, it's not gonna be there. It's not gonna be on the shelf. And there it is.

Madeleine Cleary: 2:37

Yes. And you always, you always go in with low expectations, don't you? Totally. It's not gonna be you. There might be one copy and look, there might not even be one copy and that's fine. And you just tell yourself, you protect yourself in your head.

Natasha Rai: 2:50

Um, that happened to me, so on. So I'm just gonna ask on that. Do either of you do the creepy thing where you just kind of hang around and see if anyone's gonna buy it? And then just stare at people. Mm-hmm. Does anyone else do that or is that just I have done that. Okay. I sort of just

Tina Strachan: 3:02

stand in the aisle and be like, oh, look, here's Yep. Let's see if they're gonna run their eyes over it.

Madeleine Cleary: 3:08

Okay. So question. If you saw someone picking up your book in a bookshop and looking at the back cover, would you approach them?

3:15

Oh,

Tina Strachan: 3:16

I would go up to'em and say. Hi, my name's Madeleine Cleary and my friend Tina wrote this book.

Madeleine Cleary: 3:23

Um, I Ask because because you've done that before for me. So I have, and I did it for myself as well. It did happen to you did. Interesting. Okay. Did happen. Tell Telltale. So just Yeah, quickly. So I was at my local Dimmick, um, and I, I was just like walking past and then a guy was looking at it'cause it was on like the top 10, which is so exciting. He was looking at it and it was like the day before Mother's Day. And so Pat was with me, my husband, and he's like, don't do it. Edlin, don't do it. I'm like, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. So I went up to him, I'm like, oh hi. That's actually a really good book. Like I can really recommend it. And he's like, oh, really? He's like, yeah, I'm looking for a present for my wife. I'm like, oh, she would love it. Like it's historical. It's gonna murder mystery. It's a romance. He's like, oh, that sounds really cool. Um. I'm like, and for full disclosure, I'm also the author. So, um, I thought I'm a bit biased, but I promise that she'll enjoy it. And he is like, oh, well I'm gonna have to buy this then, and would you sign it? I'm like, yeah, absolutely. So did you sign it and say, your husband is awesome, Natasha, like, mouth is just open.

Natasha Rai: 4:26

I, I'm like, you are so cool.

Madeleine Cleary (2): 4:32

Madeleine Cleary: 4:32

though, like,

Madeleine Cleary (2): 4:32

Madeleine Cleary: 4:32

you know, I.

Natasha Rai: 4:36

I just adopted that persona. I know, but it's just that cool casual way that you're like, oh yeah. This is amazing book. By the way, I'm the author. I would be like, like a weird creep, like behind someone like looking over their shoulder going,

4:48

BA it, ba it

Madeleine Cleary (2): 4:52

your, your voice just went then. Yeah. Your voice just went. It is'cause I whispered.

Tina Strachan: 4:56

I was just whispering. You're whispering on, oh, my mark's all the way over here. Actually, no. You're gonna have to let know. Maybe no one's. Even heard anything that I've said this whole time.

Madeleine Cleary (2): 5:06

Our podcast is just.

Tina Strachan: 5:10

Let me know if not, and I'll try and like overdub my everything. Um, no, I'll just whispering like Tash standing behind the, the shelves going

Susan Joy-Lu: 5:17

and I'm slow to fly. I flight, buy it

Tina Strachan: 5:22

and he's like,

Natasha Rai: 5:23

this a weird reason to buy this. An onslaught of light. I would actually be running out of the shop if I heard someone whispering, creepily into my ear a name of a book, but

Madeleine Cleary (2): 5:33

maybe, maybe not of the tactic. Well, my husband did run out of the shop, by the way. When I approached that person, he's like, he just just gone. He's like, he was like cringing. He's like, I can't, I can't be around. Yeah. I can

Tina Strachan: 5:44

support you so much, Madeleine, but this, this is the line. Well, uh, okay, well let's go and thank you Madeleine, for fitting us into a very busy schedule.

Madeleine Cleary: 5:53

Yes, you have

Tina Strachan: 5:53

had

Madeleine Cleary: 5:53

had a lot on, I'm, I'm on, I'm having a break now. I'm like, I've got one more event. That's it. And then I'm just, I'm gonna chill for a few weeks. So that's good. But I, it's been, it's been amazing. Very luck. Lucky and privileged to have all the events that I've been doing. So it's been a lot of fun. Um, and I think once you've done a few. You, you have to try and avoid, you know, saying the same things as well. You wanna try. And, and I'm very, I'm very cognizant of it because I can see my husband, he's been in every single event and when he goes on his phone, I know that I'm just repeating myself. So I'm like, okay, trying to spice this up a bit.

Natasha Rai: 6:27

Yeah. But you know, on, on that point, I was talking to somebody last night and a writer, and they were saying that. Yes, but also it's unlikely that people, apart from like, you know, our spouses and family are gonna be coming to multiple events. So you could say some similar stories and if they're a super fan, they're gonna love hearing it over and over anyway.

Madeleine Cleary: 6:45

That's right. Like you've attended some of Emily McGuires, haven't she, Nash Natasha now over a few times.

Natasha Rai: 6:51

Yes.

Madeleine Cleary: 6:52

And every time you learn something. Right,

Natasha Rai: 6:54

exactly. And I never get bored because what I love about the way she talks about her book, and I'm sure you're the same Madeleine and you as well, Tina, is the excitement. Like every time she talks about the inspiration behind the book or what she was thinking about in terms of craft, there's just so much excitement that that kind of infiltrates the the people there. And then I get excited about my own work and it kind of just has a beautiful kind of knock on effect.

Tina Strachan: 7:18

I love that.

Natasha Rai: 7:20

Yeah.

Tina Strachan: 7:20

I mean, the same questions that you get asked as well, so it is a little bit hard to shake it up all the time. But yeah, like Asha said, I don't think people, it's not boring for the people that are listening. Exactly. Um, I've heard comedians do the same thing, like the same sketch on a show, on a live, on a radio. Yeah. So, you know, if it's good material, it's using it, keep pulling it out. Alright. Okay. Moving on. We had this really fun idea and it really would've, you know, the logistics of it got a bit confusing when we, when we realized that we're not all in person. But, so our idea for today's show was we had, um, we just really wanted to have a catch up about what it's like now that, now that we're all published. Um, but then we thought really fun way to do it was, um, each of us have come up with three questions. To ask and we've just thrown them into a hat randomly. And then of course the logistics of it got a bit confusing, but that's okay. I wrote to my husband to, to help out. And, um, so we've all got three questions each, and then I have a, i I have a hat with names in it that I wanna pull out and we'll get each gonna ask our random question to one of us here. So we don't know. We could get our own question. I don't know. Let's see how we go. Should I start? I'm gonna start. Okay. So I'm gonna pull, so this is my first question. I'm gonna pull my name out of, out of a hat, and I'm

Madeleine Cleary: 8:36

just, so this is like the most nervous I've been for an interview so far. It's,

Tina Strachan: 8:43

it's my name. I'm gonna, should I put it back in or should I answer it? No, answer it. How has publishing a book changed, impacted your day job?

Susan Joy-Lu: 8:53

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Tina Strachan: 8:54

Good question. How was publishing book? Okay, so I guess. I have just had to try a little bit harder to compartmentalize because there's a lot going on, right? Once the book comes out, and that's probably just when it's new a lot of the time. There's a lot of things going on, and you kind of know that there's all this stuff happening over here to the side, and emails are coming in and social media's doing lots of stuff, and it's so tempting to just have a little look. See what's happening and respond because you wanna get back to everyone. Um, so I've really had to compartmentalize and make sure that when I'm at work I'm sort of not looking at that because that's can be quite time consuming. Um, and yeah, like I have a pretty technical job and I really need my brain to focus. So, um, yeah, it has been a little bit distracting, but, um, yeah, I've just had to really try and separate the two I.

Madeleine Cleary: 9:47

Are you, are you still motivated by your day job? Because I know how much you loved it, pre-publication. This is a follow up question. Yeah,

Tina Strachan: 9:54

yeah.

Madeleine Cleary: 9:55

I do.

Tina Strachan: 9:56

And I love, I, you know, studied for a really long time and I, um, kind of worked my way up to where I am now and I love everybody that's there. I work with some really smart people and, um, yeah, really passionate people and I feel I just love being around them and feeling smarter just for being around them. So, so yes, it's definitely, it's definitely still there, but sometimes feels like two different worlds. Hmm. What about you guys? Do you, do you just feel like you're living too, like a double life almost?

Natasha Rai: 10:25

Um, for me a little bit because, um, I don't talk about myself and my work.'cause that would be quite weird to do that. Um, you better say what you are Natasha as well for those who don't know. Oh, okay. I'm a, I'm a counselor. Um, so, so I don't talk about my work and I have no idea if any or my clients even know I've published a book. Doesn't matter. Um, I think for me, in terms of the work change is, um, I try not to take too much time off because it can be really disruptive for people because they really need that regular type of, um, you know, consistency from me. I find it easier now that the book's been out for a couple of months to switch off from social media and checking during the day. And also because work, the work can get quite intense and quite absorbing like it's. It can feel like I'm getting yanked out of it in terms of my brain space to, to check. Um, but so far I'm still loving my job and I don't have any intention so far to, you know, take more time away from that or, yeah, I think it's, I found something that's working right now,

Madeleine Cleary: 11:36

and I think also the day job is, is something, it's, it's actually a nice break for me from all the social media and all the constant thinking because. It's so consuming and absorbing when you release a book into the world in those first few early weeks. My job actually feels like a bit of a holiday from from that. I'm not saying that it's, it's not fun and interesting and great, but your thought, your cons, all your thoughts. You know, are focused on this, and that's quite exhausting. So I actually found I've been sleeping better, going back to work, having a bit more of a routine around my time instead of just Googling myself for any new things, which is like. Awful.

Madeleine Cleary (2): 12:16

It is awful.

Tina Strachan: 12:19

It doesn't take long to, for that to become almost like a habit, does it? It's terrible. Like don't you think? Doesn't healthy, like it just infiltrates? Mm-hmm.

Madeleine Cleary: 12:26

Whereas if you've got a job that's keeping you occupied and that's all. And I guess the key thing here for writers though is you cannot, even once you've published a book, you can't really leave your day job. It's not to have that as well on the side. And I wouldn't leave it up no way.

12:43

Alright, I'm gonna go clockwise. Natasha, uh, your first question is for you. Oh,

Natasha Rai: 12:53

the system's working out so well. It's

Madeleine Cleary (2): 12:55

so great.

Natasha Rai: 12:57

Okay. But you don't know whose question it is, right? No, I don't actually. Mm-hmm. Um, okay, so the question is, have my views on having an agent or not having an agent change since publication. So I don't have an agent. Um, and my views have changed a little bit since publication. So going in I was like, well, I don't think I need one. And, um, there's lots of good support through the a SA, the Australian Society of Authors and also, um, individual agents who offer contract uh, negotiations. So I had that on my contract with Pantera and I thought, yeah, this is great. I'll just do this again if and when I'm privileged or lucky enough to have another novel published. But I'm just noticing that there's lots of questions that have come up since publication, like World Rights uh, and film and or television options and just other things that I didn't know before publication about building a career and longevity and how to negotiate some different things that are not just the publishing contract. So. I'm in a state of mine now where I am seriously contemplating, um, getting an agent.

Madeleine Cleary: 14:12

So agents, if you're listening, Natasha is on the lookout for an agent. She's a future Miles Franklin award winning author.

Natasha Rai: 14:21

So I can't stop laughing. Um, while, while that's lovely, I'm pretty sure my phone isn't gonna like start ringing off the hook tomorrow, but thank you Madeleine. That was an excellent

Tina Strachan: 14:30

plug. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. You don't know what you don't know, do you? Yeah. Even though you try to know and Exactly. You know, there's as a, all those sorts of things. Yeah.

Natasha Rai: 14:39

Interesting. What about you, Tina?

Tina Strachan: 14:42

Uh, yeah, I'm probably the same. I'm un agent and I realize now that there's lots of things that they could help with, and even if it's just the back and forth about the contracty money side of things. And and I And just one more person that's sort of in your corner, close to you that you can check in with. Exactly.

15:01

Yeah, I think, yeah. Yeah.

Natasha Rai: 15:04

And made you got, you got your agent after publication. Yeah, that's right. Or after you, after you signed your, your deal.

Madeleine Cleary: 15:10

I think I realized, yeah, it, having someone in your corner I think is really important. And not to say for any of us that publishers are trying to do one over us at all. And that's not, not at all the case. It's just, um, the, the industry, it's, it's, especially as a debut, it's, it's a difficult one to navigate. Sometimes things are, can be opaque. Yeah. And so having someone who you know is 100% backing you is, is a, is a good thing.

Natasha Rai: 15:37

Hmm. And I think it's just smart business and professionally because you know That's right. If you think about anything else that you'd undertake, like if you wanted to buy a house or. Do anything that required a legal eye, you wouldn't just count on yourself. That's right. Some extra, you know, power. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tina Strachan: 15:52

Brain power. And also helpful for book two, right. Coming up for book two in that they can help with like shopping it around and all those sorts of things. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Your turn. So you are asking your question. One, two,

Madeleine Cleary: 16:09

if it's me. I love that it's working our system. Okay. Have you been checking your Good Reads reviews? If yes, how does this make you feel? How do you manage those feelings? And if not, why not? Oh, good reads. Good reads. Um, I have not been checking my Good reads reviews. I was initially, and then I. Spiraled when I saw this three star review that basically said, um, I've appropriated sex workers because I'm not a sex work worker. Although they didn't know that I was not a sex worker. I haven't declared that. I'm not. Wow. Mm-hmm. There you go. Yeah. And this was bef, this was actually a really early review and I hadn't received that much feedback from the novel before I'd been released. And so I was basically thinking, oh my God, everyone's just gonna three star my book. Maybe my book is a three star book and that's all it deserves. And I was like, it, it really messes with your head. And so from that moment on, I've just decided not to check. Um, and I think that's been really good. Instead, I have my husband who will read me out. The four and five star comments. And so all I'm getting is just positive affirmation. So, and I think that's a really healthy way to be, is particularly when you're approaching writing for your second book, I think it's really nice to, to have that.'cause you still wanna get, you still want validation as well. You, you, you're searching for validation, aren't you? Yeah.

Natasha Rai: 17:42

Totally.

Madeleine Cleary: 17:42

And, um, and so, and I, I think though Good Reads should be a very safe place for readers. It's not a place for writers. That's my opinion anyway. Yeah. What about you guys?

Natasha Rai: 17:53

I totally agree with that. Um, I only checked Good Reads once, and I was the same as you. I saw it was literally just a one line review, and it wasn't even that bad, but it just made me feel really crushed. So I thought, right, I don't need to check this site because I have so many wonderful people. Who have messaged me to say, I love this. I love your book. I love your characters. I love this family. So I haven't checked it since and I haven't got anyone else to check it or to tell me anything. Good. I'm just, I've just decided in my world, good reads exist for readers. Yes. And it does not exist for me.

Madeleine Cleary: 18:29

What about you, Tina?

Tina Strachan: 18:31

Yes, I, well, it's a bit different for me for kids' books. It's not really a thing as much, so I am happy about that. I, um, yeah, so I haven't really been looking because I think I had like two reviews or something, or I don't, so I don't really know what the norm is. And yeah, so kids, it's a little bit different with, um, children's social, but I thought is three is three stars on Good Reads, actually. Like. Or are people seriously five starring things?'cause I wasn't sure, you know how they say don't, sometimes they say don't five star things.'cause that's sometimes meaningless if you're, I think five Star is

Madeleine Cleary: 19:06

great, three stars. Like, okay.

Tina Strachan: 19:08

It's

Madeleine Cleary: 19:09

just, it's like, okay. Like it, it's not bad, but it's, it's just like, okay, four stars is you really enjoyed it. And then five stars is, oh, like

Tina Strachan: 19:16

this is out of this world. Yeah. I changed my life. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. So, yeah, not, not such a, a big thing for me, which is great.

Madeleine Cleary: 19:26

One less thing to worry about.

Tina Strachan: 19:28

Alright. Okay. Back at me and I'm, so, I'm gonna ask question number 2,

19:33

2 2, Natasha. Okay. What is your highest high and your lowest low?

Natasha Rai: 19:43

Since. That's a good question. Who wrote that? No, I'm kidding. Um, my highest high definitely is, it's an amalgamation of things, so definitely seeing it on the bookshelf every single time, it just hits me right in the heart in a very beautiful way and getting feedback from people that they loved it best, best highs ever.

20:08

Uh,

Natasha Rai: 20:08

lowest of the low, uh, I dunno, maybe sometimes a bit of worry that. I'm not doing enough to get it out there, or I'm worried that as time goes on, like it'll just disappear. But I guess that's more of a worry than a low, I have to say I haven't really had like a low, low moment. It's more about future fears and worries.

Madeleine Cleary: 20:32

Yeah. Which can make you feel low, right? When you think about it. Yeah. Yeah. I think that is a very common anxiety as well, particularly around. I think you put, you put in your heart and soul to, to your first novel. You know, this is culmination of years and years. It's. It's so exciting and you have no idea what's around the corner. And then when you put your book out, you realize how many books there are out there in the world. Exactly. Exactly.

Natasha Rai: 21:01

Yeah. And even each week that goes by almost, there's a new book out every month. There's new book. Oh, every day. Yeah. Yeah. So

Tina Strachan: 21:09

that's what I was saying to Madeleine, like, you know about the, you know, ranking in Amazon, um, recently.'cause there's books in, and I'm sure this is the same for. The categories for like adult. Category books because like with kids books, the children's books category has, and this is the same for Big W and probably All Dmex and all the other bigger places that have it online. They, they categorize it. It's in there with coloring books. It's in there with, uh, recipe books. It's in there with, um, picture books, like everything, like baby board books, like everything, you know, it's, um. There's just these mainstays in the, you know, top 500 that are just always there and you just, they're never gonna leave the top 500, you know, Harry Potters, you know, all these long standing ones and like, it'd be the same for the adult genre. I'm sure. You know, you'd have all those real long standing classics that just always there and, and yeah, it. So you've almost gotta go like, oh, am I in the top few thousand or 10,000? And that's, that's really good, you know, to, to even be like that. I think as a debut, you like, you're sort of, it's, um, a lot to, to sort of get a bit lower than that, I think, um, which is a bit daunting at first, but when you, you look at that and you look who is taking up the top, you know, 500 just with these, these books, um, that have just been there forever. Yeah. It's, it's, you can understand why. Um, how do

Madeleine Cleary: 22:37

you become a longstanding book? That's been something I've been thinking about, and I think like prize winners, award winners that, you know, down the track if your book's kind of, you know, fading momentum, which happens to, I think every book that can like, you know, be another spurt. Um, yeah. And then word of mouth of course is always gonna be the thing that sells books. As things start to turn TikTok as well. Like if your book suddenly goes on to book talk, there can be an there. But all of these things are things outside of our control. So it doesn't matter how many library events or bookstore events that we are doing Instagram posts in the scheme of things. That's right. It's not, yeah, it's nothing that we can do and it's, you know, um, what. I don't know what determines, you know, what bookstores get, how many copies of which book. But that is also a huge factor as well. Having your book in, you know, quantities, amounts in the front part of the store.'cause once your book goes onto the shelf, it's, it's really difficult. So, yeah, I think there's, all we can focus on is the writing, isn't it? And writing exactly. Alex and writing good books and being part of the industry and the community, I think. I agree.

Tina Strachan: 23:52

Yeah. And remembering it's a long game, I think too, isn't it? It's a long game. Hey, um, okay, so Madeleine, and when you release

Madeleine Cleary: 24:01

the second book, people will go back to your back list as well, if they really loved it. So yes, the other, and that will be happening to you soon, Tina.

Tina Strachan: 24:09

Yeah. Oh my gosh, yes. Very soon, like eight weeks away. Hopefully. Book, book two. Okay. Madeleine, you'll turn to ask a question. Okay. Um, your question number two is for me. Okay.

Madeleine Cleary: 24:21

Oh, well this is an easy one for you, Tina. Yeah. Where is book two

Tina Strachan: 24:27

segue? Well, that was handy, wasn't it? Um, where is book two? It's, um, probably at the printing house at the moment, I think. Um, or on, its, it's probably being printed, right? So it's, so July. Two, it hits itself, shelves, Nika, and the storm. Um, and yeah, so I'm just, you know, sort of planning launches and events and all sorts of things. Um, again, which is great. It's super fun. This is the very, this is the really fun part of the process, I think. And then, and then the, then the time going around and, and, um, yeah, promoting it. So I am really looking forward to that. Does it feel different? Uh, yeah, it, I think it, yes it does. I think, I mean, it's still fun. Um, I, and exciting, but I think it's, uh, you know, the sort of an, not so much anxieties, but sort of the. You know, the kind of unknowns of the first time are a little bit more known now, like mm-hmm. You know, a bit more comfortable with, you know, going, going to events because, you know, I've done them before and know what to expect to a degree. I'm sure there's always gonna be something unexpected. Um, yeah. And just, yeah, just. Yeah, just the fun of it, I guess, and enjoying it, you know, savoring those times. I think, um, instead of being, you know, a little bit like shell-shocked I think the first time. So, yeah, no, I'm really looking forward to it. But, um, that was a good segue for, for my, for me, but also like I was, it would've been funnier for you guys. Where's book two? You know how people always

26:01

ask that? Where's book two? Your next one? Where is it, Natasha? Um, actually with my publisher,

Natasha Rai: 26:11

like, oh, okay. It's, yeah. So I'm just waiting to hear next things, but I've, I've sent it in to see how it is and what they think and yeah. Is it finished? You've written the whole thing. Yes. Because Onslaught took so long. I've actually written three manuscripts in that time, so, um, it's actually really good to just have it away and just. Now again, things are outta my control. There's something I can do about it, but it's out there with somebody and I'll just wait and see and I can just keep going on the next one.

Tina Strachan: 26:44

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the, the spirit, the right thing to do. Yes. I think, isn't it? Yeah. Just keep on going. Yeah. Uh, Madeleine, right? Natasha, I'm So, I

Madeleine Cleary: 26:54

can't wait for your book two, and it sounds so good. Um, yeah. My book two is, um, I just started it Friday. So, um, ah, literally started it. Yeah. That, which was really fun. So I, I mean, I think I've said on the podcast before I was, I've, I mean, I've got in her words, which was shortlisted for the Australian Fiction Prize last year. Just we're just gonna. I'm gonna focus on my historical fiction right now though,'cause that's contemporary.'cause I'm really enjoying writing historical fiction. So we're just gonna put that one. It's just in the, you know, in the, in the, in the shelf. Just for now, in the draw for now. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, and then I started another historical fiction last year, which I might still go back to, but it's been taken over by a new idea, a really exciting idea. So I'm now focusing on that one.

27:44

Hmm. Oh fun.

Madeleine Cleary: 27:46

That's exciting. Yeah. You, I've gotta, I had to follow Charlotte Woods Vice, you know, which was, you've gotta follow the heat. Oh, the heat, exactly, yes. Pointing me in this direction.

27:54

Mm-hmm.

Madeleine Cleary: 27:56

I love how we're all answering the questions. I know

Tina Strachan: 28:01

we don't like being interviewed on our own, do we? We just, oh, okay. My turn. So question number three, and it's. What, you may have just answered this, what's next and how, and has your approach to writing changed?

Madeleine Cleary: 28:21

Um, yeah, I think it has changed, uh, because I've, I've had a few false starts actually writing. I, going back to new writing since, not, not just since the Butterfly Women's being published, but I think over the last year working on the edits. Um, and I. What it's come down to is I need to be able to go back to that pure writing, which is writing for myself, writing the story that I wanna write, and not thinking about an audience and a market. And because I think now that you, when you write. And I think it's not about the publication day, it's actually about when you get your contract, suddenly your writing now becomes, it feels more important because you think this could very likely be published and readers may, may very much be writing, whereas before that you don't have no idea if, if anyone's gonna read it other than your mom or your husband. And so I think I, I've had to learn over the last year and a half. To not think about other people and just to think about the story that I wanna write. And that's been a long, it's been a long lesson for me and I think I'm just starting to get back to that now. That pure sense. What about you

29:40

guys, Natasha?

Natasha Rai: 29:44

Uh, well because I've been writing the whole time that I've been trying to get on sort, published, it's very, it feels natural to me not to think about any audience out there.'cause for so long I never had one. Um. So that I know what you mean Madeleine, about, I guess what may have changed is it feels more possible now to get something published, but also I'm, I don't know how to write for an intended audience anyway, and I don't know how I would even do that. So I'm, I feel very lucky and fortunate that my brain doesn't do that, that I can just continue following the heat. And writing out the ideas that I just call into me, regardless of what may happen to them. And I think as well personally, not having a second book or two book deal also helps me with that because I just feel that it's very freeing for me. And I know some people out there might just find that quite terrifying. But for me, I, I, I really love that freedom.

Tina Strachan: 30:44

Mm-hmm.

Natasha Rai: 30:45

Yeah.

Tina Strachan: 30:46

Yeah. That's a good place to be.

Natasha Rai: 30:47

Mm-hmm.

Tina Strachan: 30:48

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess it's kind of bit different. For me, because I'm just, I'm just gonna answer this question. Yeah, no. Answer it. Yeah, go for it. Um, a bit, a bit different for me because I knew I had those, I had the three books I had to write, um, but they were all written before I. Book one was released anyway, so that was, so that's probably the same sort of thing, like I just wrote them in the style that, you know, and the spirit of, um, the first book. Uh, but yeah, I always, I've been writing other books as well and I've, yeah, just sort of been, I. Writing what's been coming to me as well. So I try not to think too much about the, how it was sell and all those sorts of things. That can come later, I guess. But life writing in the heat, Madeleine, yeah, just writing it where the heat is and whatever happens external to that. Once it's finished and it's outta my control, you know, in in, in the land of, you know, acquisitions and selling in and all that sort of thing, then. That'll be what it'll be, I think. Yeah. We're

Natasha Rai: 31:50

such healthy, well adjusted writers,

Tina Strachan: 31:52

aren't we?

Madeleine Cleary: 31:53

Yes. It's taken a while, I think as well. And it's not even, um, the pressure, I, I mean, we all probably put ourselves under a lot of pressure, um, to do well, and it's not even you, you don't even want your book to do well for you. You want your book to do well for all the people that have worked so hard on it and around it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so I definitely feel, I definitely felt that I think in the lead up and I wanted to write a book for my follow up that will, you know, that I think, and this is a hard thing to say, but that will do well because, well, you know, you just feel. You wanna justify all that expense and time and effort, not just for me. Mm-hmm. And so once you, yeah, when you are, when you do know it's going to be published, you've got, you do feel that weight, I think, and I think that's unreasonable to put that on yourself. Because like we were saying earlier, so much of it is outside of your control. If it doesn't do well from a sales perspective, it doesn't mean that it's because you didn't do all that you could.'cause I'm sure everybody who's putting a book out in the world has done everything could. So that's been a lesson for me to learn, to not put that pressure on myself. And I definitely had a lot of sleepless nights,

Tina Strachan: 33:10

I think, thinking about that.

33:13

Mm-hmm.

Tina Strachan: 33:14

That's hard. And enjoy not having that deadline as well. Like I know you're saying some people would freak out about not having a second book signed, but having a deadline does absolutely change things, I think. Mm-hmm. Just knowing that it's there and even subconsciously,

Madeleine Cleary: 33:30

you

Tina Strachan: 33:30

know, um. It's just rushes things a little bit like the natural process that you would've probably gone through anyway, that's what I found with my last one. Um, my last book anyway was, um, I went through probably all the same processes that you would normally, except I had to condense it and. It all happens, you know?'cause you do naturally, you throw away words and naturally you, you write off on a tangent and go whoop and have to bring it back in and, and, or you write down one path that's not leading in the right direction. And that just happens naturally. Mm-hmm. When you write. But when you've got such a short amount of time, you're conscious of trying not to do that. But you almost still have to do it anyway as the process to get from A to B. Yeah. Like it's just what you have to do. So then you're trying to do it quickly and then you're not sure. And I think you second guess yourself and yeah, I found it really. Tricky, um, in the last time got there in the end, but it was just, everything was just condensed. Instead of putting it down for a week, it was like, no, pick it back up again tomorrow morning and keep trying to find that solution. So

Madeleine Cleary: 34:32

in the end, and I think it's really common, I think so many of our day Boo Crew have. It's the two book deals. Mm. And they've been trying to write and edit while also doing publicity. For one. It, it's a lot of, it's a, it's it's intense while, and a lot of them have families and, and work commitments as well. Trying to balance all those things. It is, yeah. It can, it's a

Madeleine Cleary (2): 34:50

lot. It's a lot.

Madeleine Cleary: 34:51

Yeah.

Susan Joy-Lu: 34:56

Nana Crackles is no ordinary Nana. She spreads joy and color everywhere she goes. Even on her way to fetch bananas at home, she always knows exactly what everything needs. But what will she do when she finds a friend in Need? A delightful debut about kindness and community. Nana Crackles is the brand new debut picture, book written and illustrated by me, Susan Joy Lu, published by the wonderful team at Scholastic Nana. Crackles is one fabulous, feisty, and fiercely kind. Nana with a serious love for her favorite food, bananas. Filled with humor and heart. The story of Nana crackles defies stereotypes and shows how this Nana takes care of those around her in her own unique way. Going to extreme and entertaining lengths to put others first and to spread joy as she goes. We see the impact of small acts of kindness. And how a community can come together to meet everyone's needs and have a lot of fun in the process. Nana crackles and I would like to thank Tina for the opportunity to introduce you to this completely Banana story on this episode of the Book Deal podcast. Nana by Susan Joy-Lu is out now. Happy reading.

Madeleine Cleary: 36:45

Why can't we all just go on retreats and just spend a whole week, just exactly

Natasha Rai: 36:50

all that lovely time. Yeah.

Madeleine Cleary: 36:52

Lovely.

Natasha Rai: 36:52

Just a week. Oh yeah, let's do two.

Tina Strachan: 36:55

Let's do a month in France. Maybe that, that would also be nice. Okay. Natasha, I think it's you. Okay. Yeah. And your question is

Natasha Rai: 37:04

for Madeleine. Madeleine. Okay. Was the experience how you expected and or planned for, and if not, what was unexpected?

Madeleine Cleary: 37:16

Yeah, that, this was my question actually, and I didn't even plan my response to it. Um. I don't think it was what I expected. I don't think, and I don't think you can plan for it. I think, I mean, I'm a planner. I think we all are, you know, type A women like to be organized and plan for things and, and I, I don't know. I, I, I tried to do everything I could, but I was not expecting the incredible social media response on the day of release. I completely underestimated how I. Intense. It would be when the book was released on the day of release. And I'd gone into work that day, uh, into the office and that was a really stupid decision.'cause I thought, oh, well the book's not even gonna be out in the bookshops. There's nothing I can do. I may as well just go to work and that will help me, you know, um, I won't be just staring at my phone. But then I missed out on so much because everyone's on there and commenting and then you feel overwhelmed. A after work on the train home. I'm just trying to like, like everything quickly and not take it all in. And so I think that was unexpected. I think the other thing is that so much good stuff happens. I. But you're so exhausted and you're in, you're doing it all in a really condensed amount of time. I really wish you could spread all these incredible moments out into a long, like six month period. So then you can really just reflect and take in and and appreciate the moment. But because everything is so condensed, you're just like quickly going from things to things and, and. It's all so amazing, but I think now I'm gonna be able to step back and take a step back and just reflect and enjoy and enjoy all those little moments. So, yeah, I think next time I'm gonna not work over that period.

Madeleine Cleary (2): 39:03

At least not that day. Please.

Madeleine Cleary: 39:04

Not the day. Not the day. Yeah. So what about, what about you guys? Maybe Tina? Yeah, I

Tina Strachan: 39:10

agree with you, Madeleine. That first day I was. Shocked and surprised and I knew how supportive the writer's community is anyway. And our day, our kid that day, boo Crew and our day Boo crew. And, um, it, but you know,'cause it takes time. Like I know I, um, I put time aside like, you know, and I make a conscious effort to share people's, um, share people's announcements and their book releases. And I, you know, commenting and liking. And I, and I try to make an effort because I know how that. Feels when people do it for, for me, and I love it. You feel so supportive, but I, I, there's never enough time to, to do every, you know, everything that you wanna do and, and share everybody's, you know, good news and things like that in their highs. But, um, I. Yeah, so I, I, but I was still just blown away on that first day of, you know, people just sharing that it's book release day. And I was like, wow, like you are, you've paid attention and you're, you are happy about this. And you know, and then reviews coming in just absolute blown away.

Madeleine Cleary: 40:13

And part of the community, you feel, you feel that community sense, I think even if it's online, but I mean, in reality too, like in real life. But yeah. What about you, Natasha?

Natasha Rai: 40:22

Yeah, I agree with what you've both said about that first day or the first few days even after release. I was really surprised. And the other thing I'm really surprised about and I realized this says more about me than anyone else, so I'm caveating it. For some reason, I imagined that I would be having to talk about my novel in front of really hostile people. I dunno why like that they would be coming to like, tell me how a crap it is and why did I write it? Yeah. So in my head I kept coming up with all of these things I could say about I. Why I wrote it and why it's, you know, it's good. So justifying yourself. I know. It's so weird, isn't it? Because even if you just took out my weirdness out of that, thank, why would anyone waste their time? Someone else, if you enjoyed this episode to the pod. So you can receive updates as soon as, actually, to be honest, that was unexpected surprise. And I had people in the room also who were smiling and kind and generous and were there to support me, and I was like, oh yeah, you don't, you haven't come here to tell me what a horrible job I've done.

41:24

Oh, it's, that's,

Natasha Rai: 41:27

I know. It's so weird. Like I know it's, that's probably something I need to think about at some point, but yeah. Have

Tina Strachan: 41:34

you seen that happen though elsewhere? I.

Natasha Rai: 41:37

And is where it's come from. So I think, yeah, I have seen it, but I've realized there weren't authors writing fiction. So I've seen that happen at maybe panels where people are talking more about ideas or maybe political ideas where they've been really not abused, but there's a very hostile people in the crowd going, you know, Bala, how can you talk say that, or I'm off that, whatever. So that's, I guess what I had in mind when I was like, oh my God, that's gonna happen.

Tina Strachan: 42:03

I was like, I'm gonna have all the elephant keepers of the world emailing me, telling me. That, that is not the appropriate, um, substrate to keep an elephant on. I just, I did so much like background checking and husband dream manual research and to try, and I was like sending diagrams to the illustrator, be like, can you make it? This is what we do now and has to be safe and all those sorts of things, but not one email yet. So. I'm

Natasha Rai: 42:39

Tina Strachan: 42:39

elephant keeper. Yeah.

Natasha Rai: 42:41

But it's so interesting where our minds go, isn't it like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tina Strachan: 42:46

Oh gosh. Okay. Yes. Could be a lot worse. So far so good. Um, I've forgotten whose turn it is. I think I just asked Madeleine that. Okay. So I'm, I, I am confused because I feel like I've. And I don't have a question. You do? Uh, right here in the chat. Oh, brilliant. Okay. Professional. Um,

Madeleine Cleary: 43:09

and it's for Natasha. Okay. Alright, Natasha, here we go. What is your least favorite thing to do when it comes to publicity?

Natasha Rai: 43:19

This is actually my question. Um, I have to say social media. Only because I'm not very good at it. Not because I don't think that people, you know, use it for very good reasons. It's just, I find it, I never know whether I should do a post or a story or if it's even worth posting. And sometimes I just bore myself and I'm like, well, if I'm bored by it, why would anyone else wanna read it? Um, and I just, I love your posts. You do fantastic views. Oh, well thank you. I didn't know that. I mean, I don't, I actually really like posting about other books. It's more that self. Publicity that I'm just like, oh God, do I sound like I'm really up myself? Why? Why would I post that? So I, that's my least favorite thing. My, even though the question doesn't ask it, my favorite thing of all is speaking to people, um, at events or at festivals where we're just having a really lovely chat about books and reading and other writers about craft and that their books. Yeah, so social media's probably my least favorite'cause I'm not very good at it.

Madeleine Cleary: 44:19

Do you think it's the Australian toll poppy syndrome as well? In on social media, you know, like talking about yourself.

44:28

I don't know, like we are scared to, to

Tina Strachan: 44:30

do it. I don't know. Some people seem to be able to do it really well. Yeah. Um, it's definitely been a new thing for me because even on my personal, like I had an, I have a personal Instagram account that's separate to the author one, which has one post on it. Um, and I, and my face, like my Facebook, I don't post on. I had think a post of the ages. So, um, but I, it helped for me having an author one, a separate one that I felt comfortable with, um, kinda like a different persona and I felt like it's okay to Same do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On there. Um, and people want to know, people wanna know what you're up to. It's a bit weird at first. I think it's a bit easier now'cause you have a bit more fodder out there to play with. Like you, you've just got natural reviews and things like that that you can post. Whereas before it's um, it's a little bit different. But, um,

Madeleine Cleary: 45:23

and I think if people have put time into reviews, like it makes sense for us to share that. Like, you know, people have spent so much time crafting. Yes. Yeah, that's true. Yes. And don't they make them look beautiful? Do, do. The least we can do is to share that. It's not in the spirit of, oh, look at me like this is, I've got a five star review. It's like,

Natasha Rai: 45:44

yeah, I think that is a really good point because I don't, for me personally, that's not what I don't like sharing. It's more like if I get some news or I have to, I don't know, talk about the book in some way that's comes from me. I'm always like, oh God,

Madeleine Cleary: 45:58

but make it about other people. Maybe. Then Natasha like, yeah, yeah, you know, you could, you could say, oh. I've got this great piece of news like, you know, I think I've done that recently. Like, oh, I, I felt, I ha, I understand Natasha.'cause I'm like, oh people must be so fricking sick of me now'cause it's just

Natasha Rai: 46:15

been so much. Which is, which is so weird, Madeleine.'cause you posted about starting your second book and I was so excited for you. Like, I, you know, I was like, oh my God, that's so

Madeleine Cleary: 46:24

exciting.

Natasha Rai: 46:24

You,

Madeleine Cleary: 46:24

you have this internal dialogue. You're like, oh, people must be so bored now. But then you, then you talk and people are like, no, no, no, this is, we, we wanna know how you're going and what all, like, we're, we're here for you. Like, this is great. Yeah, yeah. But, but yeah, I've tried to like make, like, you know, shout out to the booksellers and shout out to the, to the, the reviewers. And the bloggers and like all those amazing people in this industry to make it about them. Because without them. We wouldn't be able to do what we do.